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SAIK HUAT
09-04-2002, 06:22 PM
UPDATED PICS
The orange bit underneath the drapes isnt skinned yet.
http://www.redgamer.com/wall2.jpg
Textures might be dark on your monitor because they are darkened to look right in the game. Configure the contrast to see textures better.

Heres a really bad picture of my work, the idiotic floppy disc failed on me and this is all of the picture i could recover from it (jack sh!t) I noticed the jedi order is nearly complete by some of the modellers here so i made a sith guy to kick em all in for those all so many sith fans.

I dont know what to call this model but it might be called Reborn2000

Tell me what you think

(This is not Emperor Palpitine)

More pics soon.

Pnut_Man
09-04-2002, 06:30 PM
Nice work, very original, it will be a good edition to the jedi and sith collection

too many lamers have simply edited the reborn model..

good model

Midgit Yoda
09-04-2002, 06:48 PM
Very nice. I'll definitly download it :)

fat_101
09-04-2002, 07:03 PM
i like, good idea making new sith as theres not many we know of (well i dont) so i would definatly download it aswell.
looks really good although i would personally rethink the name:D

maybe rename him after urself SAIT HUAT sith lord? sounds good to me, u can also do ur own taunts, but these are only ideas

FATTEH

hawk_of_war
09-04-2002, 09:31 PM
Uhhhh.... maybe I'm missing something but that looks like a reborn.

Midgit Yoda
09-04-2002, 10:10 PM
that's the point. But it has a lot of differences

hawk_of_war
09-04-2002, 10:19 PM
:eyeraise:



HUH?!


:eyeraise:

SAIK HUAT
09-05-2002, 04:42 AM
you can only see the head, let me update some pics then u decide. There will be no pics today but try tommorow or in the weekend

SAIK HUAT
09-06-2002, 04:52 PM
heres those pics you guys will be creaming over.

http://www.redgamer.com/wall2.jpg

PLZ rate this thread and leave any comments

(note) the green kilt thingy has not been properly textured yet

TheMadDoofer
09-06-2002, 05:39 PM
It looks great to me, but I think it would look better if the robe went all of the way down and didn't have a little indention all the way arount the waist. Adding a belt there would do the trick, and shouldn't be too hard to do. I am waiting for the finished model!:)

keo718
09-06-2002, 06:43 PM
You'd probably make a good Qui-Gon Jinn.

SAIK HUAT
09-06-2002, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by TheMadDoofer
It looks great to me, but I think it would look better if the robe went all of the way down and didn't have a little indention all the way arount the waist. Adding a belt there would do the trick, and shouldn't be too hard to do. I am waiting for the finished model!:)

belts a good idea! ill try and implement that tonight.

SAIK HUAT
09-06-2002, 08:39 PM
Model updated http://www.redgamer.com/wall2.jpg

Eets
09-06-2002, 08:45 PM
Hmm... I like everything but the skirt.

Reminds me of my Grandma's cooking apron..



P.S. Are you going to release an SDK? :D

bleek
09-07-2002, 12:06 AM
I like it...lot more than the reg reborn. Only thing i dunno about is...perhaps make his waist smaller...or make the skirt part not come down as much. Dunno but nice idea all together. Like the hood.

Eets
09-07-2002, 12:09 AM
Well, it's not so much the size, but it just looks too rounded.. almost like a parachute. Maybe make it look more flat and maybe wind-tussled..

Midgit Yoda
09-07-2002, 12:54 AM
What I think would make this model awesome would be if you didn't have the bottom "apron". It would make it unique and kewl as crap hehe. I like it.

icepool
09-07-2002, 12:58 AM
Yeah without the apron thing I believe also that it would look better. Maybe make something more like a jedi would wear or something. But the rest looks great.

ZombieHendrix
09-07-2002, 12:59 AM
it'd look good with a slit down the center of the skirt

SAIK HUAT
09-07-2002, 01:00 PM
Since you guys knew that you didnt like my model's "friday night dinner apron" but didnt know what to replace it with, I added drapes onto it and skinned it and resized it alittle. The orange bit underneath the drapes isnt skinned yet. What do you think?

http://www.redgamer.com/wall2.jpg

Textures might be dark on your monitor because they are darkened to look right in the game. Configure the contrast to see textures better.

Eets
09-07-2002, 01:01 PM
MUCH better!

SAIK HUAT
09-07-2002, 01:02 PM
:D

bleek
09-07-2002, 01:23 PM
Looks gewd to me. I know its suppose to be a generic sith or jedi or whatever...but I'd like to replace the reborn in Single Player with him:p .

SAIK HUAT
09-07-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by bleek
Looks gewd to me. I know its suppose to be a generic sith or jedi or whatever...but I'd like to replace the reborn in Single Player with him:p .

Thats partly why i started making this model, but it was mainly the skins that made the origanal reborn look a bit clownish. I thought i would go for a new model and a more frightening reborn.

bleek
09-07-2002, 01:51 PM
I'd say you achieved your goal then:p .

SAIK HUAT
09-07-2002, 02:16 PM
how about this for the taunt?

http://www.matthewbarr.co.uk/sounds/khan_hurt.wav

BradFu
09-07-2002, 02:20 PM
Very nice! I never did like the original reborn. A hood without a cloak? Blah. This is Darth-Maulish, makes him look more like a respectable, intimidating dark Jedi :) I wouldn't mind replacing all my Reborns with this.

BradFu
09-07-2002, 02:21 PM
Cool idea for the taunt, nice and dark :D

Eets
09-07-2002, 02:25 PM
Isn't that a clip from one of the Star Trek flicks?

SAIK HUAT
09-07-2002, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Eets
Isn't that a clip from one of the Star Trek flicks?

Yea thats right!! :D Its Khan

Eets
09-07-2002, 03:23 PM
*smacks forehead*

Shouldn't he have a more "star wars" type of sound to him? ;)

BradFu
09-07-2002, 10:12 PM
I dunno, it sounds very Dark-Jedi-ish to me :)

ialexeev
09-07-2002, 10:24 PM
gogo man, when r u gonna release it??
I JUST CAN'T WAIT
:duel:

icepool
09-07-2002, 11:12 PM
Yeah thats alot better. Definately will replace the reborn with that.

SAIK HUAT
09-08-2002, 05:32 AM
give it a few more days or a week max. :D

fat_101
09-08-2002, 07:06 AM
how many taunts have u give him, because jedimod allows up to 12!!

BTW this model looks brilliant and i think with the talent of the modellers in these forums , raven staff must be shakin in their boots :D :D ;) ;) (if they aint the raven staff that is )

FATTEH

hawk_of_war
09-08-2002, 03:30 PM
Who cares if the taunt is from Star Trek? Frankly I thinking it makes for a very good taunt. Also I'm getting very tired of all this "keep it SW pure" crap.

"thA dekMan"
09-08-2002, 09:42 PM
why... startrek sucks, and I think that taunt is kinda too long, and to british sounding. Or some kind of accent and its to strong.

Never the less I cannot wait! for this model. I've always just used reborns on mp, and this will be an amazing replacement for sp. Is there anyway you could make 4 different versions? just a little different, but not much. Mebe just a stripe or something.

My only criticism, is the face. I don't know if its done, but I would just add a little more detail to it.

Maybe you could use one of darthmauls taunts or something, or just say something like we are the pawns on the darkside? lol.

Darth Loki
09-09-2002, 02:36 AM
awesome. I always wanted a robed dark/light jedi... and tyrion was quite unimpressive to me.

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-09-2002, 05:07 AM
This will be a great feat. Just imagine the great skins to come from this model. Great work SAIK HUAT.

ReIIiK
09-09-2002, 05:29 AM
Hell yeah! very nice work, can't wait to get my grubby hands on this one.


bye bye Reborns, Hello Dark Jedi Evil dudes (lol)

SAIK HUAT
09-09-2002, 12:40 PM
OK so you guys want some variation in this model no?
How about this,
Ill recruit loads of skinners and get them to redo each and every reborn skin and mp skin but for my model for release? I will also make the model again (another version) but change the gloves so it looks more like a light side jedi? Skin it then ship it out? I was also planning a new saber hilt, because if you look at the reborn saber its simply a cylinder.
Tell me what you think...
At the minuite i have this puppy ingame, but ironing out the bugs. So far the caps turned out horrible, and im guessing people want the caps fixed so optimum performance is achieved in SP with the g_saberrealisticcombat 1 command. I was just going to leave the caps so plz tell me what to do with them cus i dont wanna do it of my own concience.
I was just going to grab the skin i had and change the colors, but not the detail, if you dont want this to happen then please!!! SKINNERS COME FORWARD!.
And to show me your gratitude, plz rate this thread.

Enjoi9187
09-09-2002, 12:54 PM
what i would suggest is, release a multiplayer version with 1 skin at first, then make the skins continually (so it doest come out a ONE BIG SKIN PACK, but more like a ongoing project to keep the peoples interest) make 1 skin for an evil version, then do a light side version, and so on. that way people will always be in suspense without being hit at all one time in the future with ALL of them. just my thoughts

SAIK HUAT
09-09-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Enjoi9187
what i would suggest is, release a multiplayer version with 1 skin at first, then make the skins continually (so it doest come out a ONE BIG SKIN PACK, but more like a ongoing project to keep the peoples interest) make 1 skin for an evil version, then do a light side version, and so on. that way people will always be in suspense without being hit at all one time in the future with ALL of them. just my thoughts

I always thought it was vice versa? Any other thoughts towards this by others?

C'jais
09-09-2002, 02:05 PM
Dude, that model is WACK!!! In the good way, of course...


I don't care how you do the skins, or in which order - they're gonna be great anyway.


And I hope you can make it into a substitute for the reborns as planned, ROCK ON!

Enjoi9187
09-09-2002, 03:01 PM
yeah umm... cjais, thnx for stealing my avatar

Eets
09-09-2002, 10:02 PM
Try these taunts on for size..:cool:

Recorded by our very own Boba Rhett

http://tjc.netfirms.com/Taunts.zip

Boba Rhett
09-10-2002, 12:36 AM
*tapes fake mustache on*


I do say! Those are marvelous!


*rips fake mustache off and runs out of the room*

hawk_of_war
09-10-2002, 11:30 AM
:confused: :eyeraise: :confused:

C'jais
09-10-2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Enjoi9187
yeah umm... cjais, thnx for stealing my avatar

:eyeraise:

I could have sworn that you stole mine :lol:

Seriously, I haven't seen you before I visited this thread....

And trust me, I had no intention of stealing it even if I did see your av before I made mine.... But gladly, I made mine a long time ago :)

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-10-2002, 04:02 PM
Actually cjais has had that avatar for quite some time enjoi. But the model is looking awesome. Bout time we get rid of those reborns. And what better then this. :D

hawk_of_war
09-10-2002, 04:12 PM
My worry is that it will become another Jedi Trainer, Reborn, or Tyrion model.

SpYzEr
09-10-2002, 04:13 PM
Do u mean like everyone will be skinning it? or.... :confused:

SAIK HUAT
09-11-2002, 03:37 PM
OK i have started college again which means i will be boshing out some simple skins with the model, but not bad quality. I am hoping to release it this weekend to come. I have less time and new projects coming up so skinners, start up your paint shops, pappa's got a brand new toy. I hope to bring another variation of this model very soon, the light side version.

In more detail.....
All the reborns in SP will have the same skin.

hawk_of_war
09-11-2002, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by SpYzEr
Do u mean like everyone will be skinning it? or.... :confused:

In particular, I ment that it would become a platform for, quiet frankly, half-assed atempts at skinning.

SAIK HUAT
09-14-2002, 03:41 PM
I am just finishing the last bug now, hopefully it will be out tommorow.

hawk_of_war
09-14-2002, 04:16 PM
Tomorrow? Cool!!!! Let's just hope that some servers decide to be up and updated *cough*jediknightii.net*cough*

12thMonkey
09-14-2002, 04:18 PM
W00t W00t that was certainly quick work and great work in such a small amount of time.

Can't wait to swap the reborns with this.

Zedar
09-15-2002, 09:38 AM
TODAY!!!???
GREAT!!!!:)
:explode: :lightning :sithm:

SAIK HUAT
09-15-2002, 05:15 PM
Sorry guys i couldnt get it out today.
I have finished but havent got a connection, this means I will not be able to send it out today. This also means ill be able to spend some time double checking the model for hidden errors. Try mid week or the end of the week. It really is looking great :D

Zedar
09-16-2002, 10:09 AM
O...ok...:(
Well sure I can wait for this just a little bit longer:)

Eldritch
09-16-2002, 01:21 PM
I know this is late, seeing as how the model is finished and all, but i'm a little confused on several points.

1) The title of this thread is "Generic Jedi Model," yet your model (while good) looks about as much like a Jedi as Vader looks like the Pope (Translation=looks like a sith model, not a jedi model).

2) It looks like you took a reborn head and stuck it on Darth Mauls body and made a few adjustments (this would also explain the relatively short amount of time it took to complete this model). And while I agree that this is a good departure from the clown-like Reborn that we see in the rest of the game, it just doesn't seem *that* original to me (i'm sure to get flamed for this one).

3) It's still got the weird hood thing that's not really a hood. I've seen people mention the fact that they didn't like this hood on the original Reborns. I'm no different in that respect. Call me old fashioned, I just think if there is no cloak (or something logical that a hood would attach to) there shouldn't be a hood.

I'm not trying to deter you from future modeling efforts or anything (like I said, it's good for what it is), I was just expecting something a little more original than a Reborn and Darth Maul's love child. And before all you hardcore fans of this model start flaming me, remember this is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, and I'm not bashing anyone else's opinions, so try and restrain yourselves a bit. ;)

Darth Loki
09-17-2002, 12:22 AM
No flamage from me. but I just want to say how do you know it had a short production time? just cause you start working on a model, you dont have to immediately announce it to the community. Frankly, I think people should wait till its at least half done before its announced...

Toonces
09-17-2002, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by JEDI_Anakin_S
2) It looks like you took a reborn head and stuck it on Darth Mauls body and made a few adjustments (this would also explain the relatively short amount of time it took to complete this model). And while I agree that this is a good departure from the clown-like Reborn that we see in the rest of the game, it just doesn't seem *that* original to me (i'm sure to get flamed for this one).

You know, I never really payed close attention to this model until today, I looked at the pics, and thought it was just a reborn remodel, but it's more than that.

Anakin_S made a really good point. I do not throw around accusations lightly, but that model is just the reborn head and hood, and the regular stock Raven boots (look on Kyle, Luke) on Chechire's Maul models body, I didnt notice it at first, but it's Maul's body with just some verts pushed around to change the shape a little bit

I know Cheshire wouldn't give permission to use Maul's body, he stated recently that for legal reasons he did not want his model modified any.

I'd be intrested in seeing a wireframe, If only to prove me wrong, but there are quite a few things on that model that I'm highly suspicious of.

I notified Cheshire by e-mail so hopefully he will weigh into this matter. I admit I may be way off base here, but If I've learned anything through modeling it's that I can tell almost exactly how a model is constructed just by studying it a few moments.

One last thing, the uv's on him look really good, real professional looking. Wern't you unable to map your Royal Guard model?

Darth Vigrid
09-17-2002, 03:09 AM
I have to agree with you Toonces. There is definetely need for suspicion here.

Darth Vigrid
09-17-2002, 03:28 AM
Take a look here: Click (http://www.geocities.com/donahuepj/compare.txt)

There is no doubt that all you did was put a reborn head on Chesire's Maul. You altered his mesh some and added the skirt thing around the back of the waist. Also, it looks as though the skin used on the gloves and hands is exactly the same. This kind of thing really needs to stop. If you're going to use someone elses model (even if plan to edit their mesh) you should get their permission to do so.

Darth Loki
09-17-2002, 04:34 AM
that link is password protected...

Darth Vigrid
09-17-2002, 04:40 AM
Take a look here: Click (http://www.geocities.com/donahuepj/compare.txt) (fixed the link)

There is no doubt that all you did was put a reborn head on Chesire's Maul. You altered his mesh some and added the skirt thing around the back of the waist. Also, it looks as though the skin used on the gloves and hands is exactly the same. This kind of thing really needs to stop. If you're going to use someone elses model (even if plan to edit their mesh) you should get their permission to do so.

Toonces
09-17-2002, 03:06 PM
Ah, you picked out one thing I missed Vigrid, I was looking at the construction of the hand only, which is absolutely identicle, but your right, it's the same exact texture on the hands.

Also if you notice the way the muscles are formed on his shoulders it's clear that his workflow is identicle to cheshires Maul body. Even with a few verts pulled, the workflow cant and did not change. Load the maul glm up in modview, you'll see what I mean

Now if you got permission from Cheshire that would be one thing (and I doubt you did, for legal reasons, Cheshire has stated that he did not want his mesh altered in any way, and I'm 99.9% sure I know what the legal reason is)

Anyway, Cheshire has been notified, and hopefully will post here soon. I don't mean to be a dick about this, but it's unethical to modify another authors work without permission.

12thMonkey
09-17-2002, 04:43 PM
If i had know this was ripped then i would never of said anything in this thread.:(

Eldritch
09-17-2002, 04:53 PM
My thanks to Toonces and Darth Vigrid for backing me up on my point(s). Like I alluded to in my earlier post, the models looked way too similar for it to be coincidental.
I've noticed more and more that people are using/modifying parts of models or outright stealing an entire model and claiming it as their own work and submitting it to JKii.net and other JO sites. The most recent example I can think of was the creation of the "new" Twi'lek model whose author I can't remember. Basically this author had taken the existing Twi'lek model, re-skinned it (and I think made one or two cosmetic changes to the model) with gold tones. This was brought to Andy's attention fairly quickly and the matter was resolved. We have to start doing this more often and cracking down on those that are stealing others hard work. That's all I was trying to say, and I hope that any people that see other examples of thieves like this at work will turn them in for the good of everyone.

Enjoi9187
09-17-2002, 05:21 PM
wow saik, i must say that i am VERY disappointed at this. i cannot believe you would let the jk2 community by trying to do this. anyways, it looks very cool and is an AWESOME idea, but u really shouldnt do that.

dreamer
09-17-2002, 05:58 PM
not bad, looks like reborn head + maul body... but pretty cool
1 thing, the cloths is showing his muscles, i dont think if ur wearing such baggy cloths u can see that clearly of his body build... unless u intended that part to be like a tight ...

dreamer
09-17-2002, 06:00 PM
o wait a min. nvm... i dindt read the posts... so it WAS ripped... sigh... even u...

Enjoi9187
09-17-2002, 06:15 PM
dreamer, see that edit button on each post, click it, and delete the posts.

CheshireKat
09-17-2002, 09:32 PM
If this is my model, please stop imediately.

Not only will it ilk me, but I no longer own the rights to my SW models. So if this is, which I cant tell without the wireframe, you may be treading on thin ice.

Eldritch
09-17-2002, 11:03 PM
Cheshire, why don't you own the rights to your SW models anymore? I guess I'm out of the loop on this... do you work for some video game company and anything you produce belongs to them or something?

Darth Loki
09-18-2002, 06:43 AM
Personally, I dont think it is mauls body. if you have a look at the belt, it is thinner than mauls belt, and on maul the clothes "hang out" more over the belt. where the boots end on maul, the pants are very baggy, but they are not on the dark jedi, they are less baggy. and maul has more of a "skirt", the dark jedi just has a short cape like thing hanging off his back. the head does look like a reborns though.

Eldritch
09-18-2002, 07:07 AM
We're not saying it's Darth Maul's body verbatum, we're saying he took Cheshire's Maul's model and made a few modifications to it (such as a thinner belt, less baggy clothes, etc) as well as adding the reborn head. It's really close to it to just be coincidence.

Darth Loki
09-18-2002, 09:17 AM
Uhhh, so now that cheshire has made darth maul, no one is allowed to make any dark jedi wearing that style clothes? most of the people on these forum say that jedi should only wear there 'under suit' or whatever its called, and from what we see in the movies, they all look pretty much the same. I think its stupid to accuse someone of model-theft for making something that looks similar to another persons model, especially if they are making something that is meant to be wearing the same style clothes.

Toonces
09-18-2002, 11:46 AM
I'm sorry Darth Loki, I think you missed the point. It's not that there is any problem with what he is wearing personally, I think it's actually a rather cool model, It's just that it really looks like it's Cheshire's Darth Maul model with a reborn head and boots slapped on.

I don't know if your a modeler but the geometry on the model is extremely suspicious, the gloves are exactly the same shape, not just the look, but the geometry and it uses the same exact texture. Also the way the body itself was constructed looks exactly like Cheshire's model, with just a few verts pushed around. I could take mauls body and in five minuets push around enough verts to make it almost identicle, but the actuall construction wouldnt change.

I do not throw around accusations lightly, this is the second time I have, and the first time I was 100% right. It's not that it looked 100% similar, but the construction was exactly the same.

I'm sorry you think my comments are stupid, but the modeling community takes these things seriously. I may have angered some of the fans in this community, they may now not want to download my models, but I cannot in good faith keep these comments to myself when I see somebody blaitently ripping off somebody elses work.

If I am wrong I will issue a public appology. As I said, I personally like the model. Saku can make anything he likes, but it's is completely unethical to use somebody else's model as a base for their own model without permission.

I'm taking this more seriously because this IS a legal matter, Cheshire doesnt own the rights to his model. I know where he is coming from because I no longer own the rights to one of my models either and I know how upset I would be if somebody used my model as a base without permission

I'm sorry this message is so long, but I had to get that off my chest

Eets
09-18-2002, 11:53 AM
I'm looking at the files inbox, and there is a "Gallimar" model here that looks exactly like this Generic Sith model... Care to enlighten me?

bleek
09-18-2002, 11:56 AM
I think you guys are right though. I noticed it on the first screenshot on the gloves. It has the exact same lil shading(light and dark areas) as the Darth Maul model. Oh well..it was a kewl idea I thought:( .

Eldritch
09-18-2002, 01:04 PM
Eets,

It's most likely this model was submitted under the name Gallimar, or whatever it was. As far as I know, no name for the model was mentioned in this thread, so it could very well be this one. I ask that the file not be posted until the matter is resolved, that way it's fair to everyone.

-Anakin

bleek
09-18-2002, 03:00 PM
Found something interesting!
PROOF I TELL YOU, PROOF! (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=77194)

guess he just took it upon himself to use the model anyhow and hope no one would notice...perhaps?

By the way..did he sumit it and it is delaying the posting up of files? I sent in that Jacen Solo skin I did about 1 or 2 weeks ago(can't remeber):( .

Toonces
09-18-2002, 04:17 PM
That's the message I was thinking of, thanks for diging it up bleek :)

Perhaps it was an honest mistake and he didnt read Cheshire's reply. That was durring a period of massive clutter in the forum, so that definatly could have happened.

Eldritch
09-18-2002, 04:46 PM
Nice sleuthing, Bleek. And Toonces, I doubt it's an honest mistake. Why ask a question if you're not going to look for the answer? Because you're going to do it regardless of whether you get an answer or not. That thread might as well have said, "Cheshire Kat, i'm going to use your Darth Maul model."

hawk_of_war
09-18-2002, 06:53 PM
It could have been a mistake, he could have thought that the thread had disappeared and not been able to find it. Although I do admit it is suspisious, and chances it wasn't a mistake

Darth Loki
09-18-2002, 09:37 PM
My apologies to all. And no, Toonces, I am not a modeller, not yet.

Eldritch
09-18-2002, 10:00 PM
If he wasn't doing something underhanded, he would have said something like, "i'm creating a new model, using Cheshire's Maul as a base to start from," and then go on. As there was no mention of Cheshire's work, indeed, he has claimed it was *HIS* work the entire time, I still submit it was malicious and intentional stealing of another's model, especially since Cheshire stated clearly in the thread where he was asked if the Maul model could be used that it was a legal matter, please do NOT use it, etc, etc.

-Anakin

CheshireKat
09-19-2002, 01:05 AM
In all honesty, I would not have cared had I missed his thread. Its hard to keep up with everything. Ive recieved alot of emails ect concerning the use of Maul, and if I could Id not really care if people used it, just that they give proper credit. But I do suggest doing your own work. It's really a better feeling than Rippin.

My main concern though is that I did put alot of work into Maul, and anyone who wants to do the work can do just as good if not a better job than myself, so I guess I just dont understand not modelling from scratch.

But the real point here is that I did ask that he not use it. The disrespect of not abiding to my answer is a bit irritating, but it's somthing I cant control once I release something.

Either way Saik, dont give up modelling, just try to start from scratch next time. It's very rewarding, and Im sure you'll enjoy it.

Deetox187
09-19-2002, 02:46 AM
Umm jkii.net just posted this model for download.

http://www.jediknightii.net/files/index.php?link=file&id=941

Toonces
09-19-2002, 02:48 AM
Yeah, I just noticed that too. I havent loaded the glm into modview yet, but I peeked around at the textures and the hand texture is exactly the same

Deetox187
09-19-2002, 02:52 AM
It is definetly the Maul model, i can tell just from this quote

>When using Red Stance the arms twist up alittle when performing the first basic forward swing

That is exactly what happens to Maul when he does that swing.

Toonces
09-19-2002, 03:09 AM
Alright, I loaded it up in modview, and while it's been heavaly modified, and some of it's parts replaced (head, boots, and legs part of the shoulders) It's clearly the same model. The verts down the center of the chest were wielded together, The belt has just been resized, the arms have simply been adjusted a little bit, and the hands are identicle.

For some reason the caps show up as part of the model without dismemberment which is really wierd, I've never seen that before

I almost feel like I'm picking on this kid, but I just know how upset I'd be if my stuff was used as a base for another model without permission and credit

KMan
09-19-2002, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by CheshireKat

My main concern though is that I did put alot of work into Maul, and anyone who wants to do the work can do just as good if not a better job than myself, so I guess I just dont understand not modelling from scratch.

Yes, and I did a bit of work on Maul as well. I unwrapped everything but the head.

Darth Loki
09-19-2002, 06:42 AM
well, take it up with the people at jkii.net now, because it has been posted...

SAIK HUAT
09-19-2002, 11:28 AM
Some times I hate people.
I asked the Kat to use his model and he said no, so i used the models from within the game and modified and used the maul models skins (no problem in that is there?). Not the mesh. If you guys actually did closely look at my mesh it is nothing like his model. This is making me mad. I spend 3 days solid for spending time on a model to make it sith like (like maul) and im accussed of using his model.

SAIK HUAT
09-19-2002, 11:31 AM
I will post some pics later to shut you all up

Eets
09-19-2002, 12:26 PM
I removed the file from the files section for now. Once everything is straightened out, Andy or I will re-add it.

WhiteShdw
09-19-2002, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT
Some times I hate people.
I asked the Kat to use his model and he said no, so i used the models from within the game and modified and used the maul models skins (no problem in that is there?). Not the mesh.

So you don't have to have permission to use someone else's skin? That's news to me.

SAIK HUAT
09-19-2002, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Eets
I removed the file from the files section for now. Once everything is straightened out, Andy or I will re-add it.

Jeez, what a load of crap, my own work taken off for looking like somthing else. The skin tones from the maul skins were used so i could get the colour right. The maul skins wouldnt have wrapped round my model so thats why its ok for me to use the skins. Its like using reference pics for f*** sake. The skins were made by me and the mesh. Each model has different UVWMAPPING making it impossable to use the maul skins on my model because I MADE THE MESH.

SAIK HUAT
09-19-2002, 01:10 PM
Now you lot may have lost a modeller after i have proven myself not guilty with some pics when i get home. dam u lot.

Toonces
09-19-2002, 02:28 PM
Yes, you are not allowed to use somebody else's textures without permission. Raven has already given you permission to use their textures, Cheshire has not

I'm not saying it's exactly the same model, it's not, the head/shoulder area, and legs are yours/ravens, the torso/hips, sleeves and hands are Cheshires. If he doesnt have a problem with this then it's all ok. You wielded some verts together, and resized some areas. Post your pics, then I'll post some pics too that will make it clearer if you like

You just admited that you used his textures, your not allowed to do that. And his textures wouldnt fit around your model properly unless you used his parts

I would hate to see you go Saku, you showed some potential with your last model. You just admited that you stole his textures, say your sorry and start over, or get Cheshire to sign off on this and move on

Enjoi9187
09-19-2002, 06:40 PM
all i have to say is that i have this skin and it is my ABSOLUTE favorite, i would LOVE for cheshire to please allow him to use those parts of the model cause i think that this could be the model that everyone will have and modify (like the reborns)

bleek
09-19-2002, 06:45 PM
I dun understand why Saku is so mad:p . He knows he stole parts of the Maul model...to me it looks obvious unless you tried to make it look exactly like that Maul model. Also why did yu not skin the face or anything?

SAIK HUAT
09-19-2002, 07:52 PM
OK here we go.

First of all im surprised EETs listened to 95% of the bs'ers here. He told me to actually make some of the changes in this model and saw it progress.

First off I would like to show of my new WIP: Toonces the female ugnaught - http://www.redgamer.com/toonces.jpg (Toonces I thought you off all people would be on my side, guess i was wrong.)

And heres the deciding picture (Please look at both).
http://www.redgamer.com/look.jpg

(This forum is bonkers, your lucky i enjoy modeling to give you this great work. I thought people would be happy on its release. Always moaning like biatch's. No one complained that the picture looked like the maul model? Bunch of wierdos)

Thx for wasting my time

Toonces
09-19-2002, 08:03 PM
Why would I be on your side when you ripped peices of your model from Cheshire without permission? I'm a nice guy who helps out anybody in anyway I can, but I also would be kinda pissed if somebody ripped my stuff

Tell me what thoes pictures are supposed to prove? You heavily modifyed the model, I'm not saying it doesnt look a bit diffrent, but you ripped peices and skins directly from cheshire. It's pretty easy to copy and paste sections of a model todether

Frankly, I don't give a damn as long as you give Cheshire says it's ok, and you give him the credit he deserves

You admited you ripped some of his skins too, do you want me to post a side by side comparison?

Toonces
09-19-2002, 08:09 PM
Ok, there is an easy way to solve this, just answer one question.

Did you, or did you not, use any part and/or skin from Cheshire's maul model on your model?

bleek
09-19-2002, 08:11 PM
So with those pictures you proved that you took parts of the Ugnaught and Reborn models and then stole parts of the Maul model...and put them all together? Its pretty clear that those arms are the exact same except you moved a lil bit of stuff around.

Also you only gave us shots of the uppertorso. From the parts I see...looks like the clothe that hangs over his legs is the same as well.

Toonces
09-19-2002, 11:12 PM
http://drivingcatstudios.com/smokinggun.jpg

Above is a shot of the wireframe mapping and their respective textures, clearly this is a direct rip and since K-man did the unwraping I'm sure he can identify his work. The textures are for the hands and arms, the hand textures are completely identicle, and the arm texture was modified signifigantly, but not enough to make it unreconizeable.

The other part of the body I know was used was heavily modified and do not resemble their former self.

I could care less if you copy and paste ravens models together and call it your own, but I'm offended greatly by what you did.

I know this is Cheshire's model and it's up to him to decide to take any further action, but Cheshire was and still is an incredible inspiration to me as a amature modeler and I feel personally insulted by this.

There is no need for me to waste my time anymore trying to debunk you, it's not my model. It's been posted on JKII.net and it's up to them or Cheshire now

Thanks for your work Cheshire, I only hope to be half as good as your are someday :)

Deetox187
09-19-2002, 11:19 PM
Well if that doesn't prove it nothing will, but why did they put the model back up on jkii.net? i thought it would only be put back up when all this was sorted? which it clearly is not.

KMan
09-20-2002, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Toonces
http://drivingcatstudios.com/smokinggun.jpg


Yeah, that is so my hand. Didn't even bother to join the vertexes together, and if I'm not mistaken, hi has it on there upside-down.

Double_S84
09-20-2002, 07:53 AM
WOOOOWIE. I dont get to watch soap operas much. I mean look when i posted this. But i do thik that itd prob be like this thread. :D

Saku Haik: And i woulda got away with it had it not been for that medoling toonces. HEHE good sluething. You done SCOBBY proud.

SAIK HUAT
09-20-2002, 07:59 AM
*Slaps head*
Why do I have to argue with you people!!!
Cant you simply see I made this from the models in game?
The hand is the origanal hand with the base of the wrist rescaled. OK i used a maul texture for a glove, but you gonna take my model off line for that?
If you can be bothered to view the skins in 2d then youll see my skins look nothing like the god damn maul models (Apart from the hands skin, which was modified anyway, so not the origanal maul skin).
Toonces, dont try and argue anymore, your starting to make things up and confuse people. The picture shows the shoulders are exactly like the ugnaughts, same with the lower body and torso. Now stop wasteing my time and put my work back online.
EETS!!!!!!????? Why are you not doing anything!!!, you saw this model in progress. You saw the beta pictures!!! Say something.

SAIK HUAT
09-20-2002, 08:04 AM
My model is back online, thank god. One of the admins must have seen some light.

Cheshire Kat: For the record, do you think those pictures prove my innocence?

SAIK HUAT
09-20-2002, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Toonces


If I am wrong I will issue a public appology. As I said, I personally like the model.

I almost feel like I'm picking on this kid, but I just know how upset I'd be if my stuff was used as a base for another model without permission and credit.

I do not throw around accusations lightly, this is the second time I have, and the first time I was 100% right. It's not that it looked 100% similar, but the construction was exactly the same.



You are picking on me. :mad:
Do you think your some kind of detective or something? That other case was a mistake in the readme file. Dont get entangled in your Dick Tracie dreams.

Originally posted by Darth Loki
Uhhh, so now that cheshire has made darth maul, no one is allowed to make any dark jedi wearing that style clothes? most of the people on these forum say that jedi should only wear there 'under suit' or whatever its called, and from what we see in the movies, they all look pretty much the same. I think its stupid to accuse someone of model-theft for making something that looks similar to another persons model, especially if they are making something that is meant to be wearing the same style clothes.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Thankyou

hawk_of_war
09-20-2002, 11:48 AM
Did you maybe think that maybe there is a reason why you are finding it so hard to aruge with these people??? Maybe because of the fact that you ARE GUILTY?

The undenigable fact is that you STOLE PART OF ANOTHER MODELER'S WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION.

SAIK HUAT
09-20-2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by hawk_of_war
Did you maybe think that maybe there is a reason why you are finding it so hard to aruge with these people??? Maybe because of the fact that you ARE GUILTY?

The undenigable fact is that you STOLE PART OF ANOTHER MODELER'S WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION.

No the fact is I have PROVEN MY SELF NOT GUILTY, but because you whiners obviously dont know alot about modeling, you carry on, not knowing what the hell you are talking about. I will send the .MAX file to Cheshire Kat and get him to confirm it. Now keep your noob mouths shut, your downgrading my work. If i did steal, then why is my work back online at the JK2.net database? Even one of the admins witnessed the model when i was working on it, and even he suggested some of the changes I made to it. Jeez. Admins close this thread!!!!!!
I find it hard to argue because i KNOW its my work, but everyone seems to be convinced that it isnt. What can you do when that happens? Well you can try and prove it, but when you do they dont understand and carry on accuseing like blind old biddys.

Take my model and the maul model. Know delete everything but the torso and hips and arms for both models. Now ask 3dsmax to give you a summary showing poly count, and vertice count etc. If you knew about modeling you would have checked this first. Now compare the two.
Hold on, i bet hawk_of_war doesnt even have 3dsmax.

fat_101
09-20-2002, 01:24 PM
four things;

1. I understand IF it is part of someone elses model then i agree if it was mine i would be pretty p****d off but hasnt been proven, i mean come on if i made a hand and it looked like toonces (sorry just hypathetically speaking ) model then would i get flamed 4 using his model, its a hand they more or less all the same ....

2. Come on guys look on the bright side at least we got another model , and a pretty decent one too :) i like it.

3.dont bother trying to flame me (if u are going too ) because itll just go up my nose and outta my a**e :D

4.I am on NOBODIES SIDE, i am speaking my mind and mine alone...

End of rant , argument ... whatever it is .....

FATTEH

Toonces
09-20-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT
*Slaps head*
Why do I have to argue with you people!!!
Cant you simply see I made this from the models in game?
The hand is the origanal hand with the base of the wrist rescaled. OK i used a maul texture for a glove, but you gonna take my model off line for that?


Yes, that's actually a reason to take a file off line if Cheshire wanted to

Originally posted by SAIK HUAT
If you can be bothered to view the skins in 2d then youll see my skins look nothing like the god damn maul models (Apart from the hands skin, which was modified anyway, so not the origanal maul skin).

This is something your also not allowed to do, again, grounds for taking the model offline if Cheshire wanted to. You altered another artists work without permission, it's completely unethical

Originally posted by SAIK HUAT Toonces, dont try and argue anymore, your starting to make things up and confuse people. The picture shows the shoulders are exactly like the ugnaughts, same with the lower body and torso. Now stop wasteing my time and put my work back online.
EETS!!!!!!????? Why are you not doing anything!!!, you saw this model in progress. You saw the beta pictures!!! Say something. [/B]

What have I made up? I stated fact :) You called me a liar, You my friend have ZERO credibility anymore. You did make the model with parts of ravens models, that's just fine, but you used parts from Maul. K-man unwrapped the damn thing

www.drivingcatstudios.com/smokinggun.jpg

As I said, It's not my decision weather to take the file down, it's Cheshires now.

KMan
09-20-2002, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by fat_101
four things;
1. I understand IF it is part of someone elses model then i agree if it was mine i would be pretty p****d off but hasnt been proven , i mean come on if i made a hand and it looked like toonces (sorry just hypathetically speaking ) model then would i get flamed 4 using his model, its a hand they more or less all the same ....

Actually it has been proven (at least on the hands) We haven't seen enough of the rest of the model to pass full judgement.
The hand is clearly mine. Anyone that knows a decent amount of unwrapping knows that it would take quite a long time to unwrap a piece of mesh the exact same way as another. Even if he saved the uvw info from the maul model and made his own hand, the vertex order would have been wrong and the wrapping would have been completely wrong. And I know that he would not have had the skills needed to unwrap it to that degree.
And this is definitley not the first time that I've seen suspect pieces used in a model by him. I wasn't sure what other pieces besides Raven's models were used in the Royal Guard. That is another reason why I chose not to re-map it.

Eldritch
09-20-2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT


No the fact is I have PROVEN MY SELF NOT GUILTY, but because you whiners obviously dont know alot about modeling, you carry on, not knowing what the hell you are talking about. I will send the .MAX file to Cheshire Kat and get him to confirm it. Now keep your noob mouths shut, your downgrading my work. If i did steal, then why is my work back online at the JK2.net database? Even one of the admins witnessed the model when i was working on it, and even he suggested some of the changes I made to it. Jeez. Admins close this thread!!!!!!
I find it hard to argue because i KNOW its my work, but everyone seems to be convinced that it isnt. What can you do when that happens? Well you can try and prove it, but when you do they dont understand and carry on accuseing like blind old biddys.

Take my model and the maul model. Know delete everything but the torso and hips and arms for both models. Now ask 3dsmax to give you a summary showing poly count, and vertice count etc. If you knew about modeling you would have checked this first. Now compare the two.
Hold on, i bet hawk_of_war doesnt even have 3dsmax.

A few things. First of all, several of the people you're arguing with are not newbies by any regard, but especially when it comes to modeling. Toonces, KMan, Cheshire, many of them have been putting out models long before I even heard of you doing anything. Second, it's not possible to downgrade your work anymore than it already is. It wasn't at all impressive BEFORE we found out you were guilty of stealing parts (if not all) of the model/skins of Cheshire, but now that we see your work for what it is, it just plain sucks.
And lastly, no one is saying that this ISN'T your work, no one is accusing you of not throwing this all together. What we are saying is that it's unoriginal, and you accomplished it by spending all of 3 days (whoopdee freakin' doo) altering someones existing work. You most likely couldn't find enough TIME in 3 days to build this model from scratch, so stop trying to deny the theft.

hawk_of_war
09-20-2002, 04:25 PM
If that doesn't get the point through then its a helpless cause.

Double_S84
09-20-2002, 06:07 PM
HEHE this thread just keeps gettin better and better.:cool:

SAIK HUAT
09-21-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Toonces


You my friend have ZERO credibility anymore.



Erm... that didnt hurt, especially coming from you. Your emperor model sucked big time and you havent even released any models yet.

Phizzle
09-21-2002, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT


Erm... that didnt hurt, especially coming from you. Your emperor model sucked big time and you havent even released any models yet.


yep thats VERY mature right there. Probably just jealous cause he can model from scratch instead of stealing other people's hard work. Unlike you, he's taking his time and getting GOOD skins for his model

Darth Loki
09-21-2002, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT


Erm... that didnt hurt, especially coming from you. Your emperor model sucked big time and you havent even released any models yet.

hmmm. his first model is fully released and of a very high quality. your first model (I think) is the royal guard, and correct me if i'm wrong, but it hasn't passed beta stage yet, as you claimed you couldn't work out the bones.

Eldritch
09-21-2002, 09:36 AM
Now he's just getting desperate. He's got no more arguments, so he's resorting to name calling to try and make others look as bad as him. The problem is, that just won't work, because we know he's full of s***, and they're not.

12thMonkey
09-21-2002, 09:39 AM
Darth Loki you got him there infact all of you have :)

Darth Loki
09-21-2002, 09:42 AM
at first I didn't think he stole the mesh. but after careful observation of the mesh, and the fact that he couldn't get his previous model in game (which cant be impossible, theres another royal guard model out by another person and its finished) I seriously doubt he made this model from scratch, especially in 3 days...

Deetox187
09-21-2002, 10:05 AM
SAIK there was no call for that, did Toonces ever badmouth your model? no he didn't, in fact i believe he even said he liked it. If i were you i'd just come out and admit whats already been proven, thats the only way you'll gain back any respect at this point.

fat_101
09-21-2002, 11:47 AM
k-man in respect to ur answer;
ok i dont know jack about modelling, skinning what ever but all i was saying is isnt there some kinda possability that it could be a very very big coinsidence that it looked like the hand u say and of course like u said about the body not being looked at yet.

FATTEH

bleek
09-21-2002, 12:40 PM
I dun know much about modeling or unwrapping either. But I think that you lay out the hand to be skinned a specific way. What he is saying is it would be incredibly difficult to unwrap a hand the exact ...EXACT....same way that he did. He obviously just took the hand itself....he didn't even seem to bother to skin it different.

SAIK HUAT
09-21-2002, 05:14 PM
Look, I just wanted to get my work back online, and I have. Using the skin like I did is like using reference pics for 3d modeling. You base something on them, but it really isnt the exact same one.
I dont want to waste my time over people who waste thier lives over this pointless arguement, because my work is now online. Close this thread because you guys are to stubborn to let it go, and its just turning into a massive flame war against me. The admins have made thier decision so stop flameing me.
First you said I took the torso, then the lower torso, and now the hands. I showed you how I made the mesh, and you still dont give up. I cant show you everything, so I have given up on you guys. I will have to have a really good model idea before i model for this community again. :(

Toonces
09-21-2002, 05:31 PM
We're in aggreement Saik, Cheshire seems to not mind that your using his hand and sleeve textures, as well as the bits and peices of the model you did use, so this all might as well be dropped.

A closing comment though, go over to Polycount and tell them that you used his textures as a "Template" and they will laugh you out of the forums. Cheshire owns the rights to the textures and somebody cannot just alter them and then say they are theirs

And for the record I do like this model, It's quite creative, but there is no need to bash my model(s) upon which I now have two out, and another comming soon. My comments about your credibility were not meant to hurt you, but to just state the truth

Cheshire appears to not want to take any action against you so this should be dropped, but you should add a credit for him in your readme file for the peices of the model and texture you used

End of Story

fat_101
09-21-2002, 06:18 PM
ok it seems decided this thread should now R.I.P

FATTEH

Woodrodius
09-21-2002, 09:52 PM
With an angry mob like this I wish I was in the torch selling buisness. No angry mob is complete without torches.

"thA dekMan"
09-22-2002, 12:42 PM
and pitch forks!


But on all seriousness I thought he took the chesires model from the start... I just didn't want to point it out and look like a fool.

Nevertheless I love the model and think its a great idea, and whether he took the work or not, I feel bad for chesire, but I don't see how its a big deal.

Its like when people coppy your **** in art... first u kinda feel a lil pissed, but as long as it doesn't look THE EXACT SAME, then I personally would feel flattered.

bleek
09-22-2002, 12:51 PM
I get pissed non-the-less when someone ....for instance.... I draw a picture and someone looks at it and tries to draw it exactly the same but in their own style. Then goes and takes credit for it...and everyone thinks it looks great and awesome. I'm pissed.:p

-s/<itzo-
09-22-2002, 05:35 PM
Yo everybody get off SAIK HUAT's dick. i don't see chesire saying anything about it. he's not even taking this as seriously as everyone else is and he's the one who who made the model. that don't seem right to me. whether he did or he didn't just drop this whole ****. this whole conversation is just makin everyone eated :burn1: . JUST HAVE A COKE AND A SMILE

-s/<itzo-
09-22-2002, 08:32 PM
*eated* i mean heated

SpYzEr
09-22-2002, 08:37 PM
Press the edit button at the bottom right corner of ur post instead of posting 2 posts :D

Eldritch
09-24-2002, 10:30 AM
Spyzer, you sure do say that an awful lot. If it's something small, like a spelling error or something I agree - don't post a second time, just edit the first one. But you're constantly complaining about people's posting... I've seen it in multiple threads. Why do you care so much?

-Anakin

-Chrono_MOT-
09-25-2002, 12:18 AM
Sorry I'm late coming into this thread. SWG Beta has a demanding schedule.

From what I caught, apparently Saik theived some stuff from other people's models (including the ones you are permitted to use from Raven) and tried to pass them off as his own without credit.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. And Toonces is right - you no longer should consider yourself credible, considering you just insulted over half the modeling community in all of your posts combined.

Leave, see if we care. At least learn to model from scratch. But have the decency to give the proper people credit no matter what part of their model you used.

And you can fire back at me all the hell you want. It won't change my opinion and you won't be hurting my feelings.

SiThLoRd><1000
09-25-2002, 02:25 AM
Dear God! How could I have missed this for so many days?! Also, Does Cheshire work for a game com. or something?