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00M-187
09-23-2002, 05:38 PM
He owns Obi Wan and Anakin, then goes a round with Yoda without a scratch... The Darkside truly is more powerful. It would have been cool for Yoda to take one of his limbs or something.

Sivy
09-23-2002, 08:25 PM
he is a jedi master who dabbled in the dark-side, of course he kicks ass. he has the strength and teachings of both light and dark. plus he fights with a unique fencing style that other jedi are not used to.

check out the databank on www.starwars.com

ET Warrior
09-23-2002, 08:46 PM
He was a jedi master up around the level of Mace Windu. He was a BAD dude. And as sivy said, his saber style is designed for saber to saber combat, while most jedi concentrate on saber use to block blaster bolts.
And yoda was just about to whip Dooku's sorry ace when he ran away. ;)

AgentSmith
09-24-2002, 07:36 AM
Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus is a Lightsaber Form II practioner, a form no longer used by most of the Jedi since the Sith vs Jedi wars.
Jedi now more specialize in Form III or Form IV where parrying blasterhsots is more focused on instaed of taking on an opponent with a lightsaber. Form II, that Dooku masters is designed for lightsaber vs lightsaber combat. Hence he is trained to face lightsaber wieling opponents while most Jedi are not.

Taos
09-24-2002, 11:55 PM
SivyB, ET Warrior, and AgentSmith are smart people and they know what they are talking about.........listen to them:D .

Darth Kaan
09-26-2002, 02:40 PM
If he wouldnt have run away, if part of the fight was'nt cut out, if, if, if.

He was a Jedi Master first and now has obviousely mastered the darkside as well. It was also apparent he didnt want to kill Obi-lost or Anikan. Obi-Wan has never been a great saberist and Anakin was still a padawan learner, with an attitude greater than his abilities. He rushed in like amatuer and paid for it by losing an arm. Dooku was toying with him. I think it is obvious why Dooku spanked them like children.

As for "running away" from Yoda, he left.... for a reason. Cunning, subterfuge and stealth are Sith ways. If you listened to what he and Sideous discussed at the end of the movie, it was his job to start the clone wars moving forward, which he accomplished.

MaTT[-FcG-]
09-26-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Obi-Wan has never been a great saberist

He kicked Darth maul's ass didn't he? :D

MaTT[-FcG-]
09-26-2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Obi-Wan has never been a great saberist

He kicked Darth maul's ass didn't he? :D

Pada-Wan
09-26-2002, 07:25 PM
Yeah, but he got lucky that maul got careless.

t3rr0r
09-26-2002, 09:56 PM
about dooku, he has a lightsaber designed for offence, while most jedi have ones designed for defence.

also, obi-wan was treading extremely close to the dark side during his duel with maul.

ET Warrior
09-26-2002, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan


As for "running away" from Yoda, he left.... for a reason.

And that reason is he reallized Yoda was just about to destroy him. ;) I seriously don't think Yoda was exhibiting all of his skills in that duel. I think he was toying with Dooku the way that Dooku toyed with Obiwan, because when their sabers are locked Yoda says "Fought well you have, my old padawan." Signifying that he was going to end the fight right there. Dooku realized this, and ran away.

00M-187
09-27-2002, 11:18 AM
Just reading your sig, im sorry friend, that scene is not included in the deleted scense on the DVD.

Taos
09-27-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by 00M-187
Just reading your sig, im sorry friend, that scene is not included in the deleted scense on the DVD.

:( Yeah, that really sucks too !! I thought their might be a chance for it to be included....

ET Warrior
09-27-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by 00M-187
Just reading your sig, im sorry friend, that scene is not included in the deleted scense on the DVD.

I know, but i still keep it in my sig, in remembrance of how seriously cool that must have been. And there is still a SLIGHT chance that those starwars folk are just trying to trick us....ihope ihope ihope

Darth Kaan
09-28-2002, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by MaTT[-FcG-]


He kicked Darth maul's ass didn't he? :D

Well let's see. Maul fought Obi and QuiGon for a while and managed just fine 2 on 1.

He then toyed with Quigon one on one before killing him. He kicked Obi won's ass and bitch slapped him into an exhaust shaft.

Maul's carelessness allowed Obiwan to kill him, who by the way was harnessing his anger, rage and agression, but Obiwan most certainly did not kick his ass.

Taos
09-29-2002, 12:57 AM
....who was the one that got cut in half?????

Ratmjedi
09-29-2002, 03:53 AM
Don't change the subject now!:p lol
:lsduel: :duel:

Taos
09-29-2002, 03:58 AM
Hey, it's not all my fault.....;)

This is just taking on it's own life, like every other thread. :)

Count Tyranus
09-29-2002, 09:29 AM
The Force was so strong in Count Dooku that he rivaled Master Yoda in powers of the Force. During his time as a Jedi Master, Dooku studied the teachings of the Sith Holocron, kept in the Jedi Archives, and there were rumours that he developed Dark Side powers while at the Jedi Temple. Dooku's power showed when he picked up Form II combat, for which he created his own lightsaber design after experimenting with several different handle models.

When turned to the Dark Side, Count Dooku replaced the Ilum crystals inside his lightsaber with syntheticly created Sith crystals, making his blade much more powerful. Sith crystals make the energy blade much more intense, putting more power and force behind a simple swing. This makes Count Dooku deadly, and to rush into combat with him is like suicide.

The fact that Count Dooku's midi-chlorian count is several hundred underneath Yoda's makes him incredibly strong in the Force. Depending on your affinity with the Force, your powers can reach new levels. Darth Maul, for example, was not massively strong in the Force, and so could only perform moves such as jumps and throws. Count Dooku (and Darth Sidious) are so strong in the Force that they can perform much more powerful moves like lightning.

Intense physical training undertook by Sith Lords keeps the Darth's at peak performance, ready for anything. The Jedi Knights don't really take physical tests regularly, concentrating on the Force for peaceful solutions. The Sith, however, are never afraid to fight, and are always ready for combat. Count Dooku is much stronger than Darth Maul ever was, and could probably defeat him in a duel.

Power also comes in the form of wealth for Count Dooku. When his father died, Dooku became the master of his family's fortune, and is one of the richest men in the galaxy. Becoming a Sith Lord, Dooku removed his relatives on Seranno, making sure the family fortune would die with him and that no-one could take it from him. This is how Dooku single-handedly funds his Separatist Movement.

Anything else you would like to know about the greatest Star Wars character?

Taos
09-29-2002, 12:45 PM
As one sided as your messages tend to be Count (and that's ok with me ;) ). I will have to give you some credit........you sure know a lot about Dooku.....:D


Some of it is accurate and some is well........I think you know.

ET Warrior
09-29-2002, 01:16 PM
soo........EU huh? ;)

Sorry, but Sith Crystals that make his saber more powerful? Lightsabers are already able to cut through any substance that is not another lightsaber (Or energy shields in a reactor core apparently) So what would be the purpose of having a more powerful crystal? :confused: :confused:

Count Tyranus
09-29-2002, 02:29 PM
The Ilum Crystals which Jedi Knights use in their lightsabers (from the planet Ilum) are recognised as the power source for the traditional lightsaber design. However, over the millenia that the Sith Lords were in hiding, the Dark Lords developed their own crystals, based on the chemical formula of the Ilum Crystals, which makes the blade much more stable. Sure, an Ilum powered lightsaber can cut through anyting apart from another blade (or a laser bolt, come to think of it...), but a Sith Crystal delivers more force behind a blow.

Some quotes here:

"Sith synthetic crystals (inside lightsaber) replace original ones for greater power and force." (Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Visual Dictionary. Count Dooku, page 49, Rapier lightsaber).

"The Sith use synthetic lightsaber crystals, which generate a stronger blade when energized by the Dark Side of the Force. The advantage is slim, but gives a Sith Lord the upper hand in combat." (Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Visual Dictionary. Lightsaber Combat, page 63, Foundations).

It simply makes the Sith lightsaber more powerful in combat, allowing simple moves to wear down a Jedi Knight's defences. It's like a hammer: you hit the nail lightly, it goes in only a slight amount. You hit the nail harder, it goes in all the way. The Sith Crystals simply do the work for you, making a slight difference to the force of an attack.

Count Dooku isn't exactly the galaxy's strongest man, is he? Yet he can still defeat two Jedi and hold is own against the greatest Jedi in the galaxy. This is (partly) down to his special lightsaber crystals, and partly down the the fact that HE RULES!

JediNyt
09-29-2002, 05:29 PM
He didnt fight Ani and Obi at once. He may not have won against both. He didnt have a double blade and Ani and Obi are kickass Knights. Ani held up well against Dooku for a while. Yoda would have whooped Dooku if he hadnt run away. Dooku is about equal to Windu I bet. Sidious would be the closest to Yodas equal from the Dark side. Yoda would still beat anyone.:syoda:

Ratmjedi
09-29-2002, 10:15 PM
Actually Mace would kick Dooku's ass! :D

Mace used a Diffrent type of form than any other Jedi or Sith.
It was a more aggresive type and was very close to tapping to the Dark Side. That was why no one had used it before. So Mace and Dooku would be about equal. Mace was also not tapping the Dark Side. He was also younger and as strong as Dooku so Mace would kick his ass.
:lsduel: :duel:

Taos
09-30-2002, 01:10 AM
:D Yeah!!!!! GO, RATMJEDI GO!!!!!!!! Mace would waste Dooku!!!

leXX
09-30-2002, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by MaTT[-FcG-]


He kicked Darth maul's ass didn't he? :D

If you call one lucky hit kicking his a$$ :rolleyes: :lol:

Darth Kaan
09-30-2002, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Ratmjedi
Actually Mace would kick Dooku's ass! :D

Mace used a Diffrent type of form than any other Jedi or Sith.
It was a more aggresive type and was very close to tapping to the Dark Side. That was why no one had used it before. So Mace and Dooku would be about equal. Mace was also not tapping the Dark Side. He was also younger and as strong as Dooku so Mace would kick his ass.
:lsduel: :duel:

Mace uses form 7 to be exact. The seven forms were just explained in the Star Wars Insider magazine which is btw a licensed magazine release eight times a year by LEC.

So you say Mace is close to tapping the darkside, but yet is not actually tapping into it. Hmm...interesting.

If Yoda could not kill him (and he had plenty of time to do so if he was really better than Tyrannus), I mean it was a standoff, Tyrannus never got a scratch from the whole hanger battle, then that must mean in your mind Mace could defeat Yoda, who could do no better than a draw...

Purple_Tentacle
09-30-2002, 09:30 AM
i've put some thought into this and i think that mace could beat yoda. providing neither had fallen to the darkside.

without the rage and hate behind dooku he may have been a better opponent for yoda.

JediNyt
09-30-2002, 01:08 PM
Right the Dark side is not more powerful. I dont know why people keep thinking that ****.

Maul Beat Qui cause Quis age was getting to him. Qui was pounding Maul before he got tired. Plus Maul had two blades so his moves were faster.

Tyranus beat Obi and Ani cause he was a great master! Obi and Ani were not masters which is why Obi wanted to go 2 on 1. Yoda didnt waste Tyranus partly cause he wanted him alive to interogate him probably and cause Tyranus ran away.

Vader killed Obi cause Obi let him. Vader beat Luke cause Luke was just a little inexperienced padawan.

So you see there are perfectly reasonable explainations that are right in your face for the bad guys "winning" here. The Dark side is NOT the better.

Someone said earlier that Sith and Dark Jedi lightsabers are more intense so theyre more powerful blades for fighting? Sounds kinda wierd but if thats canon then it just goes to show how the bad guys cheat perhaps.

Count Tyranus
09-30-2002, 01:13 PM
Everyone seems to have the notion that Mace Windu is a great Jedi: he is rubbish!

1: Trouble defeating a simple bounty hunter.
2: No match for Yoda. The duel would be over in seconds, and Mace Windu would be dead on the floor.
3: No match for Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus. If Dooku can hold his own against Yoda, then defeating Mace would be easy. Plus, the Dark Side is stronger.

The only truly amazing Jedi Master is Yoda, and even he had trouble in taking on Count Dooku and winning straight away. Mace Windu is nothing special, and I would rank him amoungst Jedi such as Kit Fisto, Plo Koon (ET Warrior, I must say your choice of favourite Jedi is... well, you could do better) and Ki-Adi Mundi.

Count Dooku has seen the best of both worlds. Serving as a Jedi, he learned about their deepest secrets and teaching himself about healing techniques. Carrying some of his skills over to the Dark Side, and developing several new one's like Lightning, Dooku has become the only Sith Lord to single-handedly wipe the floor with two Jedi Knights, take on the most powerful being in the galaxy and escape without a scratch.

JediNyt
09-30-2002, 01:32 PM
Oh for crying out loud! Yoda said the Dark side was not stronger which is what George wrote so that means the Dark side is NOT stronger. You think George has it wrong? Yousa in big doodoo!

Darth Kaan
09-30-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle
i've put some thought into this and i think that mace could beat yoda. providing neither had fallen to the darkside.

without the rage and hate behind dooku he may have been a better opponent for yoda.

Huh? What rage, you did see EP2...right?

Dooku was very calm and confident during ALL the fighting that took place in the hanger. He spanked Obi-wan and Anakin. He let them live instead of killing them. Yoda shows up and he calmly duels him as well. Remember he WAS a Jedi Master and is now powerful in the Darkside.

I found his calmness and confidence different from most and to be something to take note of...

Count Tyranus
09-30-2002, 01:45 PM
Whe I say the Dark Side of the Force is stronger, I mean in the terms of:

"Force Lightning is a draining energy which would kill any normal man. The Jedi Knights have no such equivalent to this powerful use of the Force."

In terms of how easy it is to wipe out, to destroy, to eliminate, I wuold say that the Dark Side of the Force is much stronger than the Light. In this world, you have to be cold, brash and evil to progress. It's no use being nice, so the Dark Side is the way forward. Plus, I would much rather have the Dark Side than the Light. A question:

"What would you prefer: the ability to strike out with Dark Side Lightning and destroy your boss when he tells you that your work is taking a slide, or persuade him that you are not there and hide under your desk?"

Darth Kaan
09-30-2002, 02:00 PM
The darkside is aggresive by nature, the light side more passive.
Dooku/Tyranus has apparently mastered both.

The point I am trying to make is that his skills were not bested and he stayed very calm while being confident. Who else in the SW Universe have faced their old Master that calmly?

Just think about that for a few min's.

Ratmjedi
10-01-2002, 01:34 AM
We all know that after Yoda sent Dooku's lightining back at him Dooku was thinking like this.

*Oh *hit I'm going to die! Oh *hit I'm going to die*

*Which way did he go george, Which way did he go?*

After Yoda and Dooku had a little chat, Dooku knew that Yoda was just toying with him. That is why he left instead of toying around with Obi-Wan and Anakin a little more.
You also say that Dooku left without a scratch. Didn't Yoda leave without a scratch too?
I just think that Dooku's bark is louder than his bite. He's to over rated in my opinion. He couldn't keep himself from following the Dark path. Mace and Yoda were very strong since they did not fall tword's the Dark side. Espicially Mace since he was using a stance that was very close to coming to the Dark Side and still resisting and not giving in. It just shows that Mace has a lot of restraint and slef-discipline. As for him taking on Jango he knew what he was doing.
Dooku was to afraid to stick around and actually go into battle like Mace did. Just my $0.02 :p
:duel: :lsduel:

Purple_Tentacle
10-01-2002, 03:57 AM
quote myself "i've put some thought into this and i think that mace could beat yoda. providing neither had fallen to the darkside"

what i ment by this is that the dark side would make an opponant WEAKER, not stronger

Darth Kaan
10-01-2002, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Ratmjedi
We all know that after Yoda sent Dooku's lightining back at him Dooku was thinking like this.

*Oh *hit I'm going to die! Oh *hit I'm going to die*

*Which way did he go george, Which way did he go?*

After Yoda and Dooku had a little chat, Dooku knew that Yoda was just toying with him. That is why he left instead of toying around with Obi-Wan and Anakin a little more.
You also say that Dooku left without a scratch. Didn't Yoda leave without a scratch too?
I just think that Dooku's bark is louder than his bite. He's to over rated in my opinion. He couldn't keep himself from following the Dark path. Mace and Yoda were very strong since they did not fall tword's the Dark side. Espicially Mace since he was using a stance that was very close to coming to the Dark Side and still resisting and not giving in. It just shows that Mace has a lot of restraint and slef-discipline. As for him taking on Jango he knew what he was doing.
Dooku was to afraid to stick around and actually go into battle like Mace did. Just my $0.02 :p
:duel: :lsduel:

Fact: Dooku stayed calm through the whole battle in the hanger.
Fact: He chose to huRt obi wan and Anakin not kill them.
Fact: He hung around long enough to do what he was sent to do.

Your opinion is based on what you think he was thinking and your opinion of him. Not on what happened. I think his calmness was a BIG HINT about something specific. Think about that elementary point or continue to ignore it, your choice.

Sivy
10-01-2002, 08:57 PM
i don't think obi-wan got lucky with maul (to quote the man himself 'in my experience there's no such thing as luck'), i think obi-wan was out-duelling maul and that's way he had to force-push (a cheap shot). i don't think that obi-wan ever showed any signs that he was stuggling against maul. as far as i'm concerned obi-wan kicked maul's arse, this is my opinion and that i what i think every time i watch TPM

As for as dookuís calmness, I think itís more arrogance, a problem that all sith suffer from and jedi come to mention it.
Letís face it dooku will be killed in Ep III and it will most likely be by a jedi, be it yoda, anakin or obi-wan or even mace

Darth Kaan
10-01-2002, 09:32 PM
Okay, bottom line, Obi Wan cut MAUL in half killing him after Qui gon wore him down, after he fought them both for a while before that. So I guess 2 on 1, then after he gets mad at watching his master die, Obi Won can let his anger take over and actually win a duel. I concede this debate.

"As for as dookuís calmness, I think itís more arrogance..."

Maybe, but still very calm arrogance. Unlike Anakins anger induced rushing in and get toyed with, then get my arm cut off arrogance. Seems to be a lot of Jedi giving into anger huh? Once again a Sith is outnumbered. This time he beats both the jedi, then enters a third to give it a go...Yoda.

If Yoda is so good, why did'nt he kill Dooku, or even put a scratch on him? Probably for the same reason Dooku did'nt kill Obi Wan or Anakin (in this case because sideous wanted him alive) or put a scratch on Yoda.

I think Dooku will survive in EPIII, the Jedi's best couldnt manage to scratch him let alone kill him in EPII. He is an interum apprentice working for his own cause, not sideous, not the sith and certainly not the Jedi.

Purple_Tentacle
10-01-2002, 10:05 PM
dooku was about to kill obi-wan when anakin jumped in ! he may be good but these are trained jedi who dont die so easy. he forced obiwan to the ground then was swinging to KILL him when anakin jumped up and saved obi. so i dunno where you get this 'dooku didnt want to kill them' business.

Darth Kaan
10-02-2002, 07:31 AM
Okay, so all the Yoda lovers and Dooku haters cant see the forrest for the trees. If Dooku wanted to kill them they would be dead. He spanked them both like children (another example of 2 jedi vs one sith) and Yoda could not touch him (a third giving it a go).

EPIII is on the way...

Purple_Tentacle
10-02-2002, 09:35 AM
dooku owned obi and anakin, but he didn't kill them because he couldn't kill them, he was trying and winning. and if yoda hadn't have come in when he did they'd be sith-kebabs.

Darth Vader 421
10-02-2002, 01:12 PM
Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus is the Master of the Geonosis Duel. The only person capable of defeating him in a Lightsaber duel is Lord Darth Vader (when he had turned to the Dark Side: I know Anakin was defeated by Dooku), because Vader is the saviour of the galaxy, master of the Force and the greatest Sith Lord ever.

:vadar:

JediNyt
10-02-2002, 05:09 PM
WTF is wrong with you people?:eyeraise: The Dark Side is NOT stronger! Yoda said it! George said it! DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :nut:

The Dark side is the quik and easy path. Mastering the Dark side is faster cause its easier! It doesnt require as much discapline. It is used for power and offense! The Light side is used for knowledge and defense! "If you choose the quik and easy path as Vader did you will become an agent of evil."

Dooku is arrogant as hell! Hes powerful yes. Hes a master. He has great offensive power but at a great cost. "Once you start down the Dark path forever will it dominate your destiny." "Vader was seduced by the Dark side of the Force" Seduced by its power. It looks so cool to have. The lightning, the grip, the power, the confidence! How cool does that look?! But looks can be deceiving. "Your eyes can deceive you dont trust them." Dooku found raw seducing power in the Dark cause he was not strong enough to resist the Dark.

Many of you have been seduced by the Dark side and I myself have trouble with the same thing but I know whats truly right and wrong in this case. The Dark leads to destruction, the Light leads to properity. Now I may sound like Im freakin religious right now but Im actually athiest.

As I said before Dooku beat Obi and Ani cause HE IS A MASTER! Obi is a Knight, Ani is a Padawan, Dooku is a master. Dooku did NOT fight them at the same time. If he did hed have a harder time.

Yoda had no problem with Dooku. "Much to learn you still have.":yoda: I think Yoda didnt kill Dooku cause he wanted him alive for capture, interrogation, and maybe turning him back to the Light. Makes sense. If Yoda wanted Dooku dead he would have made it so. Dooku fought well yes. "Fought well you have my old Padawan." Dooku ran cause he knew he could not offord to stay any longer for fear of capture or death.

The new found power in the Dark can give one an instant edge in certain situations but it wont save you in the long run. Once you truly master the Light the Dark is nothing.

So hows this senario: Your boss is gonna fire you for slipping in your work is it better to A: Fry him with lightning and become a pubic enemy and a fugitive or B: Convince him you should be promoted to President?;)

But I do think its useful to have a little Dark with a good base of Light. Yoda and the council may be little too up tight about the Dark. I personally would want to have the best of both but not to the point of becoming evil as Dooku did. He went too far and it will all cost him his life in ep3.:disaprove

Purple_Tentacle
10-03-2002, 03:13 AM
i too believe that the dark side of the force is weaker, but remember that dooku was a jedi master before he turned to the dark side. he cannot be used as an example of what the darkside is, because he is such a hybrid.

i understand palpatines motivations for creating the war, but what is dooku's motivation for helping.....if obi wan had joined dooku would dooku have tried to defeat palpatine?

JediNyt
10-03-2002, 05:05 PM
No Dooku is evil and hes working for Palpatine.

Dooku: The Force is with us master.
Palpatine: Welcome home Lord Tyranus.
Dooku: I have good news my Lord, the war has begun.
Palpatine: Excellent. Everything is going as planned.

Dooku is a Sith. His title is Darth Tyranus. He is Sidious's newest apprentice since Maul. Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus is a bad guy and will most likely be killed by Ani to take his place at Sidious side. Which would mirror Lukes temptation to do the same later. Makes perfect sense. Its a fact Dooku is evil. Maybe he has some of his own plans for the future but that doesnt really matter right now.

Darth Vader 421
10-05-2002, 09:36 AM
You are all wrong.

The dark side of the Force is the much better side, giving all those who embrace it the power to do as they wish. Crush entire worlds into submission, choke life from puny weaklings and ultimately destroy the weak Jedi Knights, ruling over the galaxy with a stranglehold on all lifeforms: a stranglehold of fear. After all, fear is the greatest weapon of all.

Why do you think the best Star Wars films have been "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Attack of the Clones"? Because evil emerges victorious! OK, maybe "Attack of the Clones" was a more balanced victory: the Republic did drive Count Dooku's forces into hiding, but the Sith plans were swung into motion, allowing for the greatest episode yet: III.

Episode III will be the best film for a very simple reason: the bad guys take over the galaxy, wiping out all but two Jedi Knights and grasping victory in their fist. The Clonetroopers will become the tools of evil, the greatest Jedi ever will be forced into running away and Anakin Skywalker, the chosen one, will turn to the more powerful side of the Force:

The Dark Side.

:vadar:

DarthMuffin
10-15-2002, 04:56 PM
We all know that Dooku is the best (Dooku fan here).

Even if Yoda MAYBE had an advantage, Dooku had previously kicked Ani's and Obi's ass before and he could, possibly, be tired.

ckcsaber
10-15-2002, 05:10 PM
Hes not that powerful. Anyways he's probably going to die in EP3 or go into hiding

sexcellent
10-16-2002, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by Count Tyranus
Everyone seems to have the notion that Mace Windu is a great Jedi: he is rubbish!

hmmm, i was under the impression Yoda is #1 and Mace is #2 all the rest is easily disputable.

hurstyboy69
10-16-2002, 08:28 AM
Dooku has to die to allow Anakin to become Sideous' apprentice. There are only ever two Sith, the Master and the Apprentice.

Purple_Tentacle
10-16-2002, 09:43 AM
Hes not that powerful. Anyways he's probably going to die in EP3 or go into hiding.

he has to die, remember that we don't see him in 4, 5 or 6, so he must die, the only person that could possibily survive episode 3 and not be in 4,5,6 is pademe. the rest are dead.

p.s. sif lucas would let dooku get away with what he did !

ckcsaber
10-16-2002, 03:22 PM
There are some Jedi who Jedi went into hiding.

Kryllith
10-16-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle


he has to die, remember that we don't see him in 4, 5 or 6, so he must die, the only person that could possibily survive episode 3 and not be in 4,5,6 is pademe. the rest are dead.

There are lots of people who could survive episode 3 and not be in 4, 5, and 6. Since Padme's pregnant in 3, we're talking about a span around 17 years (depend on where Ep III ends). Plenty of people could die during that time, or even continue to survive (even if we don't see them)... they don't have to die in 3.

Kryllith

JediNyt
10-16-2002, 08:34 PM
Ya I bet Sidious kills most of the Jedi in ep3 including the most famous ones like Mace and Kiadi and then the rest scatter and are mopped up between ep3 and 4.

Purple_Tentacle
10-17-2002, 06:25 AM
come to think of it there are a few lines in ANH like " the jedi were wiped out long ago " that can make up for the not so important jedi surviving ep. 3 and being wiped out before ep. 4

Hannibal
10-17-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Who else in the SW Universe have faced their old Master that calmly?

Just think about that for a few min's.

Vader. To shoot down your calm theory what Jedi or Sith have we seen not fight calm. Only Luke and Anakin. Everyone else is totally calm.

Breton
10-23-2002, 10:46 AM
Quote from starwars.com:

"The two Jedi challenged Dooku to a lightsaber duel, but Dooku's masterful skills in old-style lightsaber combat made short work of the younger combatants. As they lay wounded, another Jedi entered into Dooku's secret hangar.

The Jedi Master Yoda confronted Dooku. The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other. It came down to a contest of lightsabers. In a blurring tangle of speed and light, the two masters of the Force dueled. Unable to find an advantage, Dooku distracted Yoda by endangering Kenobi and Skywalker with a toppling crane. As Yoda used the Force to save his fellow Jedi, Dooku fled."

As you see, Yoda wasn't owning Dooku, it was actually quite equal between them, Yoda was just a little better. So I think we could undoubtfully say that Dooku would own most jedis/siths, including Mace and Vader.

And btw, Qui-Gon fought better than Maul in TPM.

Darth Kaan
10-28-2002, 06:42 AM
Dooku had a purpose and saw to it that it came to fruition, starting the clone war into action.

Remember he is a seperatist and was once a Jedi Master that sat on the council and now a Sith lord.

He can use light or dark powers, he is a master saberist (uses form II) and can (did) stand toe to toe with Yoda in a force and saber battle. He escaped, which was his intention, without a scratch.

Based on his knowledge, skills and abilities, few if any rival him. The ones that do, like Yoda and the Emperor, are the top of their field, for lack of a better term.

Dooku is out for Dooku. He DOES NOT have to die for Anakin/Vader to become Palpy's apprentice. He has his own agenda that is yet to be totally revieled. Wether it is or not in EP3 is yet to be seen.

Purple_Tentacle
10-28-2002, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Dooku is out for Dooku. He DOES NOT have to die for Anakin/Vader to become Palpy's apprentice. He has his own agenda that is yet to be totally revieled. Wether it is or not in EP3 is yet to be seen.

yes i totally agree, i believe the alliance offered to obi-wan was dooku's attempt to meet his own agenda, against sidious.

when dooku says " i have good news for you my lord, the clone wars have begun " (close enough) i believe that he doesnt really think that the news is that good, but that could be his dissapointment that he didn't kill yoda.

Darth Kaan
10-28-2002, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle


yes i totally agree, i believe the alliance offered to obi-wan was dooku's attempt to meet his own agenda, against sidious.

when dooku says " i have good news for you my lord, the clone wars have begun " (close enough) i believe that he doesnt really think that the news is that good, but that could be his dissapointment that he didn't kill yoda.

I agree and think perhaps both apply.

DarthMuffin
10-28-2002, 09:53 AM
I agree too.

Count Dooku 2
10-29-2002, 06:43 AM
Count Dooku is loyal to him master, Darth Sidious, yet he also likes to work alone, and has been toying with the idea of killing Sidious and ruling the galaxy himself. Remember, though, some other Sith Lords have had this idea:

"Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has forseen this! Join me, and we can rule the galaxy as father and son!"

It seems Darth Vader was thinking along the lines of overthrowing his master, as well... and (I know this is EU, but) read "Enemy of the Empire": Vader likes the future in which he kills the Emperor and claims the title for himself.

The dark side of the Force is powerful, and the chance of more power is a very seductive one. I wouldn't blame Dooku if he tried to kill Sidious, failed and went into hiding himself. But then... why no mention of him during the civil war between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance? Surely he would be a major player if he were still alive.

Darth Kaan
10-29-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Count Dooku 2
Count Dooku is loyal to him master, Darth Sidious, yet he also likes to work alone, and has been toying with the idea of killing Sidious and ruling the galaxy himself. Remember, though, some other Sith Lords have had this idea...

Loyal to Sideous, but wants to kill him.....

Dooku is loyal only to Dooku and his own cause.

JediNyt
10-29-2002, 08:25 PM
Leave you own personal feelings out of it and stick to the facts people.:tsk: You dont know ANYTHING about Dookus personal agenda. No one does. As past facts have shown the apprentice is loyal to the master and is under the masters control. Thats how the Sith work. That is a fact. It would be stupid to let the apprentice surpass the master. As Vader said, "I must obey my master." But like any Sith apprentice including Vader, Dooku would not mind taking his masters place. If he had the perfect opportunity he would probably take it. We know nothing more than that.

Dooku is a Sith. An apprentice aspiring to be a master and continuing the Sith lineage. This is what we know. And thats all.

Purple_Tentacle
10-29-2002, 09:48 PM
dooku may attack palpatine, this could be how he dies, that'd be a cool scene.

i'd like to see 3 people in the room, Anakin, Dooku and palpatine and its dooku vs palpatine.

Count Dooku 2
10-30-2002, 05:19 AM
One of two things would please me:

1: Anakin goes to Sidious and askes to be a dark lord. Dooku appears and challenges Anakin, thinking he can destroy him after the Battle of Geonosis. Anakin and Dooku duel, and Anakin (now using the dark side) kills Dooku. Sidious walks in, gives Aankin the title of Darth Vader and they all live happily ever after.

2: Dooku feels the time is right and attacks Sidious. The pair of dark lord's duel with lightsabers and Force powers, with Sidious winning and killing Dooku. Sidious goes in search of new apprentice, finds the hate-filled Anakin and turns him into a Darth, living happily ever after.

I like the first one, but a dark lord versus a dark lord would be something new and interesting. Plus, I would like to see Sidious use a lightsaber at some point, because the character has been very low on the action scenes, and each character needs an action scene (well... they gave one to Jar-Jar!).

Purple_Tentacle
10-30-2002, 05:25 AM
i doubt that sidious/palpy would even know how to use a lightsaber. lightsabers are a jedi's weapon, the sith would use them only because they want to kill the jedi.

darth maul is the only sith to have used a lightsaber who was not once a jedi.

so i am voting a big NO to sidious using a saber.

Count Dooku 2
10-30-2002, 05:33 AM
No... I think all Sith Lord's have lightsabers. After all, the dark side is still the Force, and all Force-users weild a lightsaber as their weapon. Also, the Sith don't just use lightsabers because they want to kill Jedi: they go on other missions, like Maul against Black Sun, and he used his lightsaber to kick smuggler butt.

I'm voting a big YES on Sidious using a lightsaber (doesn't have to be anything fancy: a single blade would do...).

Count Dooku 2
10-30-2002, 05:35 AM
Oh, and also...

If the Sith Lord's only use lightsabers to kill Jedi, why did Darth Vader keep his when he thought all the Jedi were dead in the Original Trilogy? He must have had some use for it, otherwise he would have left it on the floor after Obi-Wan Kenobi was killed (Vader thought he was the last Jedi).

Hannibal
10-30-2002, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle
i doubt that sidious/palpy would even know how to use a lightsaber. lightsabers are a jedi's weapon, the sith would use them only because they want to kill the jedi.

darth maul is the only sith to have used a lightsaber who was not once a jedi.


That's crazy. The Sith come from a group that broke off from the Jedi. They all use sabers. If Sidious doesn't use one now he did when he was an apprentice to his master(whoever that was). The saber is part of the Sith as much as it is part of the Jedi.

Also I doubt Anakin is going to ask to be as Sith Lord. I'm betting his anger is going to drive him to it.

Kryllith
10-30-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Count Dooku 2
One of two things would please me:

1: Anakin goes to Sidious and askes to be a dark lord. Dooku appears and challenges Anakin, thinking he can destroy him after the Battle of Geonosis. Anakin and Dooku duel, and Anakin (now using the dark side) kills Dooku. Sidious walks in, gives Aankin the title of Darth Vader and they all live happily ever after.

2: Dooku feels the time is right and attacks Sidious. The pair of dark lord's duel with lightsabers and Force powers, with Sidious winning and killing Dooku. Sidious goes in search of new apprentice, finds the hate-filled Anakin and turns him into a Darth, living happily ever after.

I like the first one, but a dark lord versus a dark lord would be something new and interesting. Plus, I would like to see Sidious use a lightsaber at some point, because the character has been very low on the action scenes, and each character needs an action scene (well... they gave one to Jar-Jar!).
How about.... Anakin's marriage to Padme upsets the Jedi council, which threatens him with the ultimatim of divorcing Padme or being kicked out of the Jedi Order. Refusing to leave Padme, Anakin leaves (or is kicked out of) the Order, and seeks revenge against them. Knowing that the Seperatists oppose the Republic (and hence the Jedi Order), Anakin seeks them out and offers his services to Dooku, in return for aid in wrecking his vengence upon the Jedi. Recognizing the Anakin's inherit power, Dooku decides it's time to challenge Sidious, confident that with Anakin at his side, he'd be both victorious and have an apprentice to take his place after he becomes the Master. Upon confronting Sidious, Sidious reveals that he's Palpatine to Anakin. Because of the bonds between Palpatine and Anakin existing since before Episode II, Anakin betrays Dooku and Dooku dies (either to Sidious, Anakin, or jointly). Anakin then replaces Dooku as Sidious's apprentice.

Sheesh, I hope I'm wrong. I'd hate to be giving away Episode III. :P

Kryllith

Darth Kaan
10-30-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by JediNyt
Leave you own personal feelings out of it and stick to the facts people.:tsk: You dont know ANYTHING about Dookus personal agenda. No one does. As past facts have shown the apprentice is loyal to the master and is under the masters control. Thats how the Sith work. That is a fact. It would be stupid to let the apprentice surpass the master. As Vader said, "I must obey my master." But like any Sith apprentice including Vader, Dooku would not mind taking his masters place. If he had the perfect opportunity he would probably take it. We know nothing more than that.

Dooku is a Sith. An apprentice aspiring to be a master and continuing the Sith lineage. This is what we know. And thats all.

I disagree. Dooku is definately playing the middle against both ends for his own cause, whatever that cause may be. We do know it is for the seperatist movement.

Vader obeyed his Master until he knew Luke was about to die, he killed Palpy to save Lukes life, not to take his Masters place.

Taos
10-30-2002, 06:54 PM
Hey Kryllith, once again, that is some great thinking and imagination.......very plausible. It very well could happen like that....

:D

Purple_Tentacle
10-30-2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Hannibal


That's crazy. The Sith come from a group that broke off from the Jedi. They all use sabers. If Sidious doesn't use one now he did when he was an apprentice to his master(whoever that was). The saber is part of the Sith as much as it is part of the Jedi.


its not that crazy, sidious doesn't use a lightsaber. maul used one so he could fight the jedi. and we havent seen ANY other sith that didn't learn to use a saber when they were a jedi.

"they all use sabers" who are they, you mean maul ? remember that darth and dooku were once jedi.

where are you getting this " The Sith come from a group that broke off from the Jedi " ?

the only reference i can think of is when Qui-gon says " it was heavily trained in the Jedi arts " or something to that effect. where else is it talked about the sith being a group that broke off from the Jedi ?

Hannibal
10-31-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle


its not that crazy, sidious doesn't use a lightsaber. maul used one so he could fight the jedi. and we havent seen ANY other sith that didn't learn to use a saber when they were a jedi.

"they all use sabers" who are they, you mean maul ? remember that darth and dooku were once jedi.

where are you getting this " The Sith come from a group that broke off from the Jedi " ?

the only reference i can think of is when Qui-gon says " it was heavily trained in the Jedi arts " or something to that effect. where else is it talked about the sith being a group that broke off from the Jedi ?

From the horses mouth. When George Lucas was doing hype for the 1st movie(TPM) he spoke about the Sith.

He said the Sith were ex-Jedi who wanted the Jedi to look into the Dark side and it's power. When the other Jedi woudn't go along with it they formed there own group. The Sith were from some planet that these Dark Jedi conquered.

He also said(which is my favorite part) that there are always only 2 Sith because they are so evil that everyone of them wants to lead and that they end up killing each other off. If you only have a master and an apprentice then the apprentice needs the master to train him so he won't try to kill him.

Part of Sith training, just like part of Jedi training involves lightsabers.

So when you say where have I heard that they use lightsabers, I ask you where have you heard they don't?

If you don't believe me check out this at the official site.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/index.html

Purple_Tentacle
10-31-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Hannibal


So when you say where have I heard that they use lightsabers, I ask you where have you heard they don't?

If you don't believe me check out this at the official site.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/thesith/index.html

good argument and that link proves you to be correct abut the sith, even though it doesn't prove that Sidious has ever ignited a lightsaber in his life. do you have any info that ?

i like the idea of the sith once being a part of the jedi thats seems to tie in quite nicely with the movies.

you asked me where i get my starwars information, the answer is from the movies, thats all i have to refer to.

Hannibal
11-01-2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle


you asked me where i get my starwars information, the answer is from the movies, thats all i have to refer to.

Yeah unfortunately there isn't to much in detail to actually read about the history of the Jedi and Sith. Especially since George Lucas doesn't use the EU stuff.

I'm sure at one time Sidious used a saber. But I'd have to agree that he probably doesn't use need to use one anymore.

I remember reading profiles of SW characters where it had their affiliation and the weapons they used(ex. Obi-Wan, Jedi Apprentice, lightsaber).
For Sidious it said his weapon was Darth Maul.;)

Kryllith
11-01-2002, 09:42 AM
Of course, Sidious could be just like Yoda... or Dooku. All three of them apparently choose to fight with Force energy before resorting to lightsabers. Dooku didn't draw his saber until he realized that Obi-wan would simply cancel out the Force lighting with his own saber. Then when Dooku and Yoda faced off, they tossed bolts back and forth a few times before deciding to use sabers. Sidious could be the same way. After all, the only time we've seen him fight was using Force lightning on Luke, and Luke had tossed away his saber so he couldn't block it. If Luke had blocked the lightning like Obi-wan had, maybe a saber battle would have ensued...

Kryllith

Count Dooku 2
11-02-2002, 12:52 PM
Also, think about it: all the old, seemingly weak characters proved everybody wrong. Yoda, Dooku, the Emperor, Obi-Wan (Episode IV) have each had comments like "Where did you dig up that old fossil?" made against them, and each proved us wrong by using strength, skill or lightsabers to fight the battle in hand. I think Darth Sidious could be the same, and surprise everybody by using the Force and a lightsaber.

You go for it, Sidious!

JediNyt
11-02-2002, 01:31 PM
Absolutely. Im all for Sidious and a saber! :emperor: :saberr: :)

Taos
11-02-2002, 10:27 PM
The more I think about it......the more I begin to think, why not??? I think it could only make the movie a little better and more interesting. It sure would give ppl around here something to talk about! :D

Purple_Tentacle
11-02-2002, 11:08 PM
oh come ON ppl, can you really imagine Palpatine running around and actually moving QUICKLY, he has bearly managed a brisk walk through-out the entire saga.

well i guess yoda did it, but to do that same bit AGAIN. i doubt it.

-s/<itzo-
11-03-2002, 02:55 AM
expect the unexpected. i can picture palpatine being a fabolous fighter. come on check out darth maul and he was the aprrentice. wouldn't you think that palp would be much more quicker and agile.

also i want to see more hand to hand combat added to the lightsaber duels. i think it brings more excitement. you only get hit ones with a light saber. it's either you're badly injured or dead. i would like to see more scrapes and bruises during the fight. few jabs and roundhouse kicks in the face.

Count Dooku 2
11-03-2002, 08:56 AM
The only reason Darth Sidious could manage to walk is because of his heavy, long robe. I bet anything that under there is something similar to what Count Dooku wears beneath his cape. And look how Dooku mopped the floor with two powerful Jedi Knights before holding his own against the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy!

:holosid: :saberr:

Keiran Halcyon
11-03-2002, 02:10 PM
I dont want Palpatine sabering.

That's why he has apprentices, hans't he?

Darth Kaan
11-04-2002, 10:25 AM
The Emperor doesnt need a saber, but it would be cool to see him use one.

Count Dooku 2
11-05-2002, 02:59 AM
Keiran Halcyon, fair point, but Palpatine will not avoid using a lightsaber just because he has an apprentice. Remember, Qui-Gon Jinn had Obi-Wan Kenobi, but he still fought Darth Maul one-on-one for a long part of their duel, plus fended the dark lord off in the Tatooine desert. And take Yoda: the most poowerful and senior Jedi in the galaxy, yet he still joins in the fight against Count Dooku. Just because master's have apprentices does not rule them out from all combat!

And I do agree with Darth Kaan: he does not need a lightsaber (since he is the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy... probably the most powerful being in the galaxy, in fact), but everyone should have a stab at the duelling in Star Wars. I never thought Yoda in a lightsaber duel was possible, but the latest film proved me wrong, so the path is wide open for Sidious/Palpatine!

boinga1
11-21-2002, 10:12 PM
personally if palp fights he will probably only be toying with anakin, showing the darkside's power. He cannot fight a major character cuz then one of them would probably have to die.
palp will probably only use lightning, and only use it to torture anakin and beat some stupid jedi who works his way up to fight him (like that jedi who went at dooku and got shot).

Count Dooku 2
11-23-2002, 08:53 AM
I think Darth Sidious will either kill Mace Windu or duel with Obi-Wan before wounding the Jedi. Then Obi-Wan will escape when Sidious goes looking for Anakin (this will happen after Obi-Wan fights Aankin).

Thinking about it, what would happen if Anakin fell into one of those large pots of molten metal inside the Geonosian Droid Factory, where Padme was trapped in Episode II? Could Anakin versus Obi-Wan take place in the Droid Factory?

DarthMuffin
11-23-2002, 10:02 AM
Thinking about it, what would happen if Anakin fell into one of those large pots of molten metal inside the Geonosian Droid Factory, where Padme was trapped in Episode II? Could Anakin versus Obi-Wan take place in the Droid Factory?

... Or maybe it will happen on Sarapin?

Count Dooku 2
11-23-2002, 01:54 PM
Erm... where is Sarapin? I've never heard of that place before.

DarthMuffin
11-23-2002, 02:04 PM
It's the lava planet from where the empire gets its energy.

Count Dooku 2
11-23-2002, 02:08 PM
Would that be EU? I don't think George Lucas would use EU in the final Star Wars episode, do you?

I'm split between the melting pit on Naboo or the droid factory on Geonosis. What does everyone else think about this? Will Lucas create a new planet, or will he stick with what we have at the moment?

DarthMuffin
11-23-2002, 02:09 PM
I don't usually read about EU, so I don't really know... Maybe he'll create a new planet...

Purple_Tentacle
11-23-2002, 10:04 PM
i think Naboo is gunna get MESSED up, maybe not destroyed but close to it. ever wonder why its not talked about from ep.3 onwards eh? eh? its GONE thats why. muahahha

PowerBroker
11-24-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Purple_Tentacle
i think Naboo is gunna get MESSED up, maybe not destroyed but close to it. ever wonder why its not talked about from ep.3 onwards eh? eh? its GONE thats why. muahahha

It isn't used because it doesn't need to be used. The only reason Naboo was the main setting of Episode 1 was because of Padmť. Luke, in his fight against the Empire and Vader, has no reason to travel to the unimportant and out of the way Naboo system. It just isn't logical.

lukeiamyourdad
11-24-2002, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by PowerBroker


It isn't used because it doesn't need to be used. The only reason Naboo was the main setting of Episode 1 was because of Padmť. Luke, in his fight against the Empire and Vader, has no reason to travel to the unimportant and out of the way Naboo system. It just isn't logical.

Only ep3 will tell us. Maybe Naboo got destroyed by Vader/Anakin
for some reason.

PowerBroker
11-25-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Maybe Naboo got destroyed by Vader/Anakin for some reason.

What makes you think that? Palpatine needs his home planet intact, for political manuevering room at the least.

lukeiamyourdad
11-25-2002, 06:19 PM
Mayb he needs it now but later he might want to erase his origins so he might simply destroy everything on the planet.

boinga1
11-25-2002, 10:05 PM
i don't think we're gonna see palpatine witha saber.I mean, it'd be cool and all, but, where's he gonna keep a saber anyway?under that robe?And how is he ever gonna get it out from under the robe?