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View Full Version : Blast! I just found a contradiction!


Jedi_Monk
10-09-2002, 02:32 PM
I'd hoped this day would never come... most of the "contradictions" people bring up are pretty easily explained, but this one... even I'm at a loss. It's a very small thing, but the devil's in the details. I was doing some research on a theory about the formation of the Republic, and so I popped in my ANH:SE to check and see if my information was all straight... it wasn't.

I'd remembered Obi-Wan saying, "For over a thousand
generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the universe..." What he actually says is, "...were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic..."

Why is this bugging the 'ell out of me? Because in AotC, Palpatine says, "I will not allow this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years, to be split in two." Now, there's a huge difference between a thousand generations and a thousand years (about 24,000 years, actually). Am I not remembering Palpatine's line right, or is this a contradiction, or what?

Ideas?

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

AgentSmith
10-09-2002, 03:24 PM
I think in AOTC Palpatine was just using a general number in one sense and in the other, while the Republic has stood for more than a thousand years at that point it has been about a thousand years since the Sith had been extinct.

Perhaps this was why Mace Windu was in deep thought and Yoda looking so suspicious? Since Palpatine mentioned a timeframe that roughly indicated the past period where the Republic did not have any Sith treathening it? :eek:

The discrepancy with Obi-Wan's comment however I cannot say. I though the Republic and the Jedi Order were nearly not as old as 24000 years... :confused:

ET Warrior
10-15-2002, 12:36 AM
Ahso, the jedi could have been guardians of peace long before the republic. No reason that they needed a stable government to order themselves and fight for the good in the universe.

Taos
10-15-2002, 02:47 AM
I think you do have Paply's line right.......

I agree with ET, you don't have to have a gov't to have jedi's protecting ppl across the galaxies......

Jedi_Monk
10-15-2002, 04:21 PM
That's what I thought at first... the theory I was developing had to do with the Galactic Republic forming in the wake of a Sith War. The timeline would have been about right, Palpatine saying that the Republic was a thousand years old, Ki-Adi saying that the Sith had been destroyed for a millennia and Sio Bibble's statement that there hadn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic. But Obi-Wan very clearly states that the Jedi have been the guardians of peace and justice "in the Republic" for 25,000 years.

I don't know... maybe AgentSmith is right, and Palpatine just slipped up. But that just doesn't sound right to me.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

ET Warrior
10-15-2002, 11:55 PM
Ugh, if obiwan clearly states in the republic...that complicates things......meditate on this i will, and then i'll watch ANH soon, and november 2 i will watch AotC in the Imax and pay close attention

get to the bottom of this mystery i will

Kryllith
10-16-2002, 04:25 PM
Maybe the Old Republic lasted 1000 generations and the Republic lasted only since the defeat of the Sith. With the defeat of the Sith, the Republic may have changed to the point where everything before the turning point is considered the "old ways" (hence the Old Republic). Doubt it's that simple though since the Republic probably because the Old Republic with the emergence of the Empire.

Kryllith

Darth Kaan
10-18-2002, 11:07 AM
The Galactic republic and Jedi order were formed 25000 years before EP 4.

200 years later was the hyperspace war.

The Sith wars took place 4000 years before EP 4 against the "old republic"

1000 years before EP1 was the Sith vs Jedi War.

So either way his statment was fact, from a certain point of view....:D

Admiral Vostok
10-20-2002, 06:19 AM
I don't think that's a contradiction, or anthing deep and meaningful. Palpatine's line would have sounded dumb if he said "stood for 24,000 years". He never said "exactly a thousand years".

I really think you're reading too much into it.

Then again knowing that crazy old wizard Obi-Wan, he might have been telling the truth from a certain point of view...

Jedi_Monk
10-20-2002, 03:35 PM
I don't think that's a contradiction, or anthing deep and meaningful. Palpatine's line would have sounded dumb if he said "stood for 24,000 years". He never said "exactly a thousand years".

Ah, but he could have said "This Republic which has stood for over twenty thousand years..." Maybe I am reading too much into it, but you have to admit that even if he says "Over a thousand years" (anyone have the script handy?), it's still one heck of an understatement.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Kyle_KatarnJedi
10-20-2002, 06:30 PM
hrmmm...here is my take...

By generations I think that he means 10 100 year periods...hence the 1000 generations

Qui-Gon Jinn 64
10-21-2002, 01:00 PM
Generations are usually measured with a family. Example heading your way:

1: Grandparents = older generation.
2: Parents = middle(ish) generation.
3: You = younger generation.

10 years cannot really be described as a generation, unless all the femails in the Star Wars galaxy get pregnant at ten years old, and that is very unlikely (that would make your grandparents thirty... wierd, eh?).

I think it is a simple slip-up in relating between the two trilogies, like the Obi-Wan being trained by Yoda and the Uncle Owen being Obi-Wan's brother things (not sure on the last one, but something was posted here about that...). Anyway, "Attack of the Clones" is a great film as it is, and Palpatine is a great character. Maybe he suffers from memory loss? Or the auto-cue guy made a mistake? We will never know...

Darth Kaan
10-28-2002, 06:49 AM
Owen is Anakin's half brother hence the name Uncle Owen pertaining to Luke.

Where did it ever refer to Owen as Obi Wons brother?

Breton
10-30-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Owen is Anakin's half brother hence the name Uncle Owen pertaining to Luke.



Thats not all correct, Cliegg had gotten Owen from an earlier relationship, he was not biologacy Schmis son (or else he would be maximum 10 years in AOTC, wich he is not). So they were not half brothers in blood.

Kryllith
10-31-2002, 10:58 AM
Correct. They are step-brothers, not half-brothers.

Kryllith

Keiran Halcyon
11-02-2002, 11:35 AM
My point of View:

Academically, Generations last a year. I'm sure every year a new generation of Padawans became Jedi. SO obi-Wan was speaking of that...maybe.

Anyway i consider myself from another generation of my brother and sister, i mean, differents points of view give different definitions of generation.

Jedi_Monk
11-04-2002, 03:12 AM
Academically, Generations last a year. I'm sure every year a new generation of Padawans became Jedi. SO obi-Wan was speaking of that...maybe.
Hm... I like your point of view... I'll accept it :D

The crisis is averted :cheers:

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Darth Kaan
11-04-2002, 10:31 AM
Generations only last a year??? What Academy is that? lol!

ET Warrior
11-06-2002, 10:27 PM
Hooray to Keiran Halcyon!!! Crisis averted!! HOOHA!!!!

Keiran Halcyon
11-07-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Generations only last a year??? What Academy is that? lol!

They do not last a year. Havent you gone to school?

When you enter school, and finish it in eg course 1999-2000, your are that promotion or generation, different from other who graduated in 1998-1999 or 2000-2001. Every year a new generation of graduate people leaves school. (and by the way every year a new generation of students starts school)

Hope that helps :)

LiMP RABBiT
11-08-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Keiran Halcyon
Hope that helps :)
Would you hold it against me if I said it didn't?

Keiran Halcyon
11-08-2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by LiMP RABBiT

Would you hold it against me if I said it didn't?

huh?

I cannot explain myself better, i'm not english speaker. :(

Kurgan
11-08-2002, 12:22 PM
Not to sound like a broken record, but I think the main point of consideration here is not to let the EU complicate what is really, an intercanon discussion.

Forget Tales of the Jedi and just focus on the events of the films, especially what's said about the Republic in ANH/SE and AOTC.

Perhaps Obi-Wan is just lying (from a certain point of view) again (but why?), or he's getting senile in his old age... or maybe they counted "generations" differently than we do (1 year instead of 20-40 years??).

Perhaps George just goofed up (like Han Solo's infamous speech about "parsecs" in ANH), after all. I don't know how I'd answer it, otherwise.

The "academic" solution might work, considering Obi-Wan is still probably thinking from a heavily "jedi-centric" position, because the prequel films are so far internally consistent with the fact that the Republic has lasted roughly 1000 years up to the point of AOTC (with an all out war, and the supposed extinction of the Sith happening near the time of the founding of the Republic).

LiMP RABBiT
11-09-2002, 04:49 PM
As all these events happened in a galaxy far far away, these characters must be aliens, yes. It seems highly unlikely that they would by chance know perfect english and speak with american accents, yes. Therefore, my theory is these must be translations and one simple error may have been a result of a mulfunctioning/stupid translator and not 2 different lengths of time.

Or, one of these 2 characters may have just had a slip of the tongue or have cheated on their 'history of the republic' test.