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Scotchy
10-15-2002, 02:34 AM
I don't see to many WIP: Saber threads here. I suppose it could be because they are not as anticipated as player models, but I decided that these needed a little community help to finish up.

SCREENIES LATER IN THREAD (SCROLL DOWN :))

I'm practically new to game modeling. I've tinkered around for years but never really gotten into anything heavy-duty. Well, now I'm a Digital Media student concentrationg in Visualization (Modeling and Animation) and I want to get a jump on the courses I won't have to take for another year or so. I figured that weapon modeling had to be one of the easiest types of JK2 models to make, so I decided to do an EU saber that hadn't been done yet. Good practice, right?

Now, for the "please help me" part:

I'm not sure of the ideal poly count for a saber model... that's why the above models range from 828 to 1200 polies. If someone could let me know, I would appreciate it much.
I'm using Gmax right now (getting MAX 4 or 5 soon), and I have read some nice tutorials on the matter and have downloaded the .md3 importer/exporter. If you know of any other saber/weapon making tutorial than the one listed in the NEW TO THE FORUMS thread, please point me to it.
As you can see above, the sabers are not yet textured. UVW Mapping in Gmax (at least doing it how that blasted tutorial instructs) is a royal pain. If there is any way I can UVW Map only certain sections at a time for a bit less eye and memory strain, PLEASE let me know.
I only have ONE reference pic. If you can find more, I would be so happy.
Aren't sabers supposed to have 2 tags; one for the blade and another for the hand? The tutorial listed in the NEW TO THE FORUM thread only speaks of one.
Kind of unrelated, but does anyone know how to create a decent brushed metal look using Photoshop 7? I'm tryign out all the filter combos I can think of and I'm not having good results.


Thanks for any help, and I'll try to keep you updated... assuing anybody cares.

SettingShadow
10-15-2002, 03:17 AM
Really nice sabers. I cant help you tough (I know nothing about modeling)

Psynex
10-15-2002, 02:47 PM
There's a heap of questions! Let's see if I can help you out. But I think most of it needs to be taken one step at a time, so my answers may seem brief.

Ideal poly count - I'm not really sure either...to me, more then 500 is kind of high. Only because I never play with a saber in first person to see that much detail. above 1000 is really high. 828 isn't toooooo bad, but you should try and cut that down to at least 700.

There is a tut for saber making in Milkshape that had no more pointers then the gmax tutorial (at least in my eyes it didn't). But you could probably take a look at it anyway.

You can texture sections of the model at a time, but I don't have the time right now to explaing how. I have to scarf down my lunch and head to class in 20 mins.

reference pics I can't help with.

There are 2 tags in the original saber file. one tag_flash and one tag_parent. Flash is where the blade is emitted from, parent is where the hand meets the saber. Only the blade one seems to matter though. It will still work in game without parent.

Brushe metal basic (really basic). bottom layer, make a gradient of dark grey to light grey. Layer above that, using black and white as your two colors use a noise filter in monochrome. Then use a motion blur filter on it, and change it's transparencey/blending options until you get a metal quality you're looking for.


hope this helps out at least a little bit. I'll be around later on.

-s/<itzo-
10-15-2002, 03:36 PM
scotchy check out this site click here (http://jediencyclopedia.150m.com/ulicqeldroma.html) . it should have some pics of ulic and his saber. hope it helps you.

Scotchy
10-15-2002, 05:33 PM
Thanks guys. I'll try sketching a few concepts to see if I can get a better idea of the shape before I remodel the next one. I'll try t ocut the poly count down a bit, but for the sake of quality, I might not cut it down too much.

Meat_Puppet
10-15-2002, 06:57 PM
Meat Puppet would like to skin saber.......Saber to high poly, which scare meat puppet. No reason why saber should be over 300 polys. Meat puppet say "Learn to optomize and good modeler you become"

Scotchy
10-15-2002, 09:45 PM
I liek your angle meato... like it alot. As far as the saber thing goes... kyle's saber is 500+ polies... so I reason that other sabers that have been made by the public at large are usually a few more than that. I'll try for 700 or less, though.

Personally, I've always been a fan of heavy geometry with a light skin. While a good skin can do wonders for the look of a model... in reality there are no 'skins', just 'models'. I realize that the quake3 engine is limited... so I'll do my best to compromise between detail and function.

Gram_Reaper
10-16-2002, 12:33 AM
I was working on an Ulic saber. But the guy that wanted to skin it still hasnt sent it back. Yours looks pretty good though. nice job on the generic sabers.

Psynex
10-16-2002, 03:20 AM
Gram_reaper - He never sent it back!? What kind of a statement is that. You should never send the only file away to someone you don't know for reasons just like that. You always make a copy. Oi, I am sorry for you and hope you have learned a valuable lesson.

anyway, on to bigger and better things like trying to explain how to map sections of the saber at a time. Start by applying a checkered texture map to the whole mesh.

1) in sub-object mode, select the group of faces you want to layout first.
2) apply a uvw map modifier and select a type (usually safe to stick with cylinder or planar map).
3) apply a uvw unwrap modifier and click the edit button. You'll only see the unwrapped faces you selected.

If you notice near the bottom of the texture mapping window there's a button with a red triangle. If you also click the plus sign next to the uvw unwrap modifier in the stack, there's a select faces sub-object mode. If you select that option under the uvw Unwrap, and click the red triangle in the texture mapping window, Only faces you select in a viewport will show in the texture mapping window. You'll see them appear as you select them.

4) Iron out any distorion in the checkered map. Then take the entire selection of vertexes and move them off of the stage area somewhere to the left, right, top, bottom, etc...

5) Collapse the stack back down to an editable mesh to lock in those maps.

6) Select a new set of faces and follow the same steps you just did until the rest of the mesh is mapped.

7) Once it's all mapped and you've returned back to an editable mesh, apply one final uvw unwrap modifier. We don't need map anymore because it's already been done.

You'll see all of your different mapped sections scattered around the staging area. Now just select those different sections and arrange them nicely into that staging square. Viola! You've made a skinmap.

It's hard to follow without pics I think. I downloaded a video on it and learned that way. Good video too, it's sped up for size and time, but you can pause and rewind and replay until you understand it all.

Good luck.

Scotchy
10-16-2002, 03:46 PM
Thanks Psynex, I figured that was what "collapsing the stack" meant. I'll go look for that d/leable video you we're talking about. I discovered the "filter selected faces" button last night and that was a big help. I modeled a VERY simple saber (8 sided cylinder... like 30+ polies) and after battlign with md3view and my general tag alignment, I finally got it in-game. My skin actually took the most time to do... but it made the "rod-saber" look much more detailed.

I found out something odd... If I open md3view and then go to File > Open the whole process of converting to a .glm is useless. I have to double click on the .md3 I wish to open in order for it to work properly. Anyone else had this problem?

Oh and Psynex, If you could point me in the general direction of that d/leable vid, I would be very thankful.

Meat_Puppet
10-16-2002, 06:57 PM
Meat puppet say you DONT HAVE TO collapse stack. MEat puppet just adds Edit mesh modifer. Which act the same as collapsing the stack.

downloadable vid for putting sabers in game?

Psynex
10-16-2002, 07:07 PM
double click the md3 huh? I'll have to mess with that one. I've had my saber hilt finished for a while now with a small amount of editing to go on the skin, but can't get the blasted skin to adhear to the glm so in game it has a default grey and white skin map. Looks very similar to what you would see if a bird were to have $hyte on it! So if ya got any pointers on that I'd be gracious. Md3view yells at me when I try to load the skin saying the path it couldn't find the skin. My skin file points right to it, and the error even displays the correct path. I hate it!

Also, I have to look the link up for that video tutorial. And it's not a video tutorial for getting a saber in game, but how to skin map using that method I described above. And yes, right-clicking and selecting editable mesh will do the same as collapsing the stack, it was just the way I decided to describe that step at the time.

Meat_Puppet
10-16-2002, 07:22 PM
meat puppet say all files must be in gamebata/base/models/weapons2/saber

EVERYTHING

Psynex
10-16-2002, 08:02 PM
LOL. I new I just recently saw a link for that video tutorial, and wouldn't you know it was right here in this very forum. Just click here (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65669). It's top quality. You need a Techsmith codec (http://www.techsmith.com/) installed to view it though.

During creation the files don't have to be in that path to compile it fine as long as the resulting files are all placed in that saber directory. I've done it before. I had a different skin applied without even having a skin for it to look up. I ignored the error and the result worked because the glm had the path to the final skin with it. I don't know why I can't get it to work now.

Scotchy
10-16-2002, 11:25 PM
I always start from the base file and make a mimic file structure.

Example:

C:\My Documents\My Models\Ulic Saber\base\models\weapons2\saber\

...and I put all the pertinent files there (saber_w.md3, saber.jpg, saber_w.skin, saber_w.glm).

Just in case I wasn't all too clear: Whenever I open the md3view.exe and attempt to load a .md3 file from within the program, the whole process is screwed... I can't load a .skin or export a .glm. HOWEVER, If I simply open the .md3 file in question by double-clicking it (this of course requires that windows assosciates .md3 extensions with md3view.exe) everything works fine. I suppose because it can backtrack all the way to the \base\ folder everything works out fine.

Question: do most people ACTUALLY USE winzip to make .pk3's?!?! I use PakScape... it's much easier to use (It mimics Windows Explorer)... you can get it from the Valve Editing Resource Center.... or just follow THIS (http://www.valve-erc.com/cgi-bin/files.pl?folder=/resources/&filename=pakscape-011.zip) link and download it directly.

EDIT:

Since I didn't think this question warranted an entirely new thread, I'll post it here.

Is there any way to specify where the other blade comes out (for \THEDESTROYER or JediMOD/JediPLUS)? Is it a new tag I have to create, or is it simply a fixed length away in the opposite direction of tag_flash? If so, what is the length?

Psynex
10-17-2002, 09:54 AM
I wish we had more control over that second blade emission. But the answer for your Q is no. It's calculated in code. I tried making a saber claw (like wolverine from x-men), thinking I could trick the engin into using duplicate tags with the same name to emit more then one blade, but sadly only the originally created tag had a blade.

Now, if you'd like to contact mod makers for say jediplus, and ask them for a feature that will allow saber makers to add tags in sequential order (tag_flash01, tag_flash02, tag_flash03, etc...) up to a certain limit number then maybe we'd have more saber mods in the WIP section. It would give us all more design options. One thing me and my friends figured though is that each blade might count for damage so the author would have to make the other blades dummy blades.

PalnGipanji
10-17-2002, 02:17 PM
Unless the skin is successfully loaded in MD3View, then it won't save the skin path in the glm, which is why it won't stick to the model no matter what paths you have set. I really don't know how you're still having a problem with that, Psynex, but weirder things have happened.

Also, I'd really advise against putting everything in base/models/weapons2/saber... everyone at this point knows about JediMod v1.2 or JediPLUS enough to be able to use those mods to select saber hilts. The most annoying thing is replacing in-game models, especially when it's unnecessary. So, if you do plan to replace the default saber hilt, at least offer a Mod Compatible version, stored in base/models/weapons2/saber_sabername.

One more thing... as long as your model has under 1000 UVs, you're fine. Don't worry about everyone coming down on polycount... if you need those polys, then use them. Everyone else can choose whether or not to use it or download it. Besides, it's not like everyone on a given server is going to use the same hilt. I just don't see the point in whining about poly counts, especially when the game itself has a pre-existing limit. Use 'em if you got 'em! :)

Scotchy
10-17-2002, 03:07 PM
Thanks PalnGipanji,

I AM planning on making it mod compatible... I just set it up with the default saber path so I can test it in SP (where I can actually use first person w/ saber).

UPDATE TIME:

I've temporarily culled the Generic Old Sabers. Thanks to the reference material LBuRNa hooked me up with, I've decided to also make Ulic's "Outcast" Saber (http://jediencyclopedia.150m.com/ulicjedi3.jpg). The Outcast Saber is in the final stages of uvw mapping and skinning. It's exactly 643 polies and works fine in-game. Here are some Pics:

WIP: Ulic Qel-Droma Outcast Saber
Pic 1 (http://users.chartertn.net/montrose/linked/wip_643_01.jpg)
Pic 2 (http://users.chartertn.net/montrose/linked/wip_643_02.jpg)

I'll try to have the first saber in-game tonight.

Psynex
10-17-2002, 04:55 PM
Hmmm...maybe I'll try using a mod compatible directory structure to compile the GLM saber instead of the default. Should I create it in C:\Program Files\Lucasarts\... the full game path? Or shouldn't it make a difference? Also, does md3view need to be in that folder with the files? Because that tid-bit was being thrown around the forum somewhere.

Scotchy
10-17-2002, 05:17 PM
Just so long as you start with \base\ it doesn't matter where it is.
I'm running WinXP... if that makes a difference. About the md3view.exe location... it needs to be in *default install path*\Gamedata\Tools\ to work at all.

-s/<itzo-
10-17-2002, 05:29 PM
glad to hear that my reference pics helped you. anyways its lookin good. can't wait till you begin skinning it.


i got question, how do you turn saber hilts that you download from the internet into mod compatible??????

Gram_Reaper
10-17-2002, 07:23 PM
no you misunderstood, i have a copy. Im just a horrible skinner. I still have the model but the thread died due to 0 respones. Sorry for the misunderstanding

Psynex
10-18-2002, 04:03 AM
ok, I give up!! I didn't have the tools folder in my Gamedata folder and all the tools still worked just fine, so I moved the Tools folder into Gamedata. Then I decided to move all files out of the main base directory as not to cause any other issues. So here's my current file set up:

C:\Documents and Settings\psynex\My Documents\3D\base\models\weapons2\saber

That's where all my files are
saber.jpg (512x512, 8-bit)
saber_w.skin
(w_saber, /base/models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg)
saber_w.md3 (which does have the saber geometry named w_saber to coincide with the skin file)
saber_w.glm (rather the glm it gave me with a crap skin)

The error I get from md3view is this: "texture /base/models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg" not found


now you tell me what the hell is wrong. It seems like everything is in proper order. If I ignore the error, the skin still doesn't show up.

Scotchy
10-18-2002, 01:49 PM
saber_w.skin
(w_saber, /base/models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg)

That is what's wrong... remove the /base area. Correctly, the .skin file should be set up as:

w_saber,models/weapons2/saber/saber.jpg

And that's a direct quote. I actually had trouble getting a revamped version of the first saber in-game last night. I looked at the .pk3 I had made and immediately realised the problem... I had zipped it up with a base\ folder inside.

You see, when makign anything that needs to be zipped into a .pk3, the game assumes that the directory that the .pk3 will be placed under will be in between the first order of folders in the .pk3 (i.e.:models or gfx) and the \GameData folder (i.e.: base or jedimod). This kind of applies to just about everything else in the game... the game expects that directories like models or gfx to be somewhere in the 'in between' area. Example: ...gamedata\<foldername>\models\...

Think of it this way; the assets0.pk3 is just an extra step in a simple folder layout. Let me example this. [note: underlined objects are double-clicked or non-directory objects (i.e.: not folders but files). Parenthesis enclose the file structure of the .pk3.]

C:\Program Files\LucasArts\Star Wars JK II Jedi Outcast\GameData\base\assets0.pk3 (models\weapons2\saber\saber_w.glm)

To the game , the above is roughly understood as this:

C:\Program Files\LucasArts\Star Wars JK II Jedi Outcast\GameData\base\models\weapons2\saber\saber_ w.glm

The .pk3 file itself would not necessarily be a whole new directory but a way of compressing the 'assets', as it were, for better HD space manageament. If the assets0.pk3 were a step in the above file address, it would probably be somewhere in the red slash above.

I hope that helped a bit. If I got wordy forgive me but I actually talk like that. Kind of unnecessary.

Psynex: I apologize if it looks like I'm assuming you know little here; I'm not, believe me. If you can model and skin, then you understand directory structires. I just felt like explaining it. Maybe I'll ask KMan to add this post to the sticky to help people who don't understand .pk3 files.

.::[EDIT]::.
Oh and Psynex... maybe you should just uninstall the game and start from scratch. Backup all your savegames and .pk3's that are not backed up already and start fresh. Install the game "Automatically" so it will be installed in it's default install path. THEN install your tools to the ...gamedata\tools\... directory and you should be alright. I did it a few weeks ago and it saved me so much clutter and confusion.

PalnGipanji
10-18-2002, 03:21 PM
Psynex... I wish you'd said that earlier about your saber skin path. :) Scotchy is correct about what the skin path should be.

Here's what I have...

Starting from:
E:\Program Files\Lucasarts\

Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast\ <-- Game Directory
JK2Mods\ <-- all of my downloaded pk3s (acts as backup)
JK2EditingTools\ <-- the directory that holds my toolkit

from:
E:\Program Files\Lucasarts\JK2EditingTools\

base\ <-- the beginning of the file structure meant to mimic the GameData\base folder ( my WIPs are stored in this structure under models\weapons2\saber_sabername)

tools\ <-- all my tools (modview, md3view, etc)

So basically, it doesn't matter what directory you install the game or toolkit to, just as long as your WIPs are found in your toolkit directory structure. I hope that clears up any confusion about proper WIP placement.

On a different note, there was mentioned something about the tag_flash and tag_parent. tag_parent has no apparent use whatsoever, or at least, I haven't noticed its use yet. The position of the saber in a model's hands is determined by:

a) the saber locater on the skeleton that drives the model (basically, the model should be made so that the hand would arrive at the same position that the saber is connected to the skeleton)

b) the saber's orientation to the origin in your 3D modeling program. If you move the saber away from the axis origin, then it will also be displaced in the game, no matter where tag_parent is, or if you even have one at all. I wouldn't bother using it, but to each his/her own. :P

PalnGipanji
10-18-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by LBuRNa
i got question, how do you turn saber hilts that you download from the internet into mod compatible??????

It depends on how generous the author was. All you need is their md3, and if they were feeling particularly giving when they packed the model (or forgetful), then some of them would have it. If not, you're just out of luck (as far as I know, glm's can't be decompiled/imported). If yes, then here's what you do:

1) First, extract all of the contents of the saber's pk3 into a new folder in your toolkit's base folder. As an example, I will say the path is models\weapons2\saber_example

2) See if the author included a .skin file. If not, check to see if there is a .qc file. One of these two should be included. There are 3 cases to this step, so do the one that is appropriate for the saber.

2a) If NEITHER file (.qc or .skin) exists... well, it may be possible to import md3s into file type conversion programs, or 3D Studio Max. What you need to find is all of the surface names that exist for the saber. (Most commonly, there will be one surface called w_saber. However, a saber does not have to be one piece, nor does it have to be named w_saber.) Open Notepad to record the surface names. Then, find the corresponding texture file for each surface and record it next to its surface name in Notepad, seperated only by a comma. For example, our saber will be named w_saber, and its texture file is saberExample.jpg.

This should appear in Notepad:
w_saber,models/weapons2/saber_example/saberExample.jpg

When all of these are complete, you will need to save this as w_saber.skin. (or something.skin... whatever you wish, really.)

2b) If there is ONLY A .qc FILE... open this file up in Notepad. There will be several lines of unimportant hoohaa, then it will get onto naming surfaces and textures used for those surfaces. Copy these and paste them into a new Notepad window, changing the path to point to saber_example instead of just saber. Then save as w_saber.skin (or somename.skin).

2c) If there is a .skin FILE... open the .skin file in Notepad and change the models/weapons2/saber path to models/weapons2/saber_example. (The easiest way to do this is to use the Replace function in Notepad.) Save.

* Please note that some sabers also have shaders associated with them. These files should be updated to the mod-compatible path as well! *

3) Open the md3 in md3view, and import the skin. This should work now, as you have updated your skin file to point to the mod-compatible directory.

4) Export GLM.

5) Make PK3.

If all goes well, you should see the texture on the saber in md3view. Once this happens, you're gold, and can export the GLM and make the pk3 for the new mod-compatible saber. I'm not sure if there are ways to import GLMs, but so far, my searches on the topic have come up nilch. Anyway, I hope that answers your question without confusing you too much. (I used this method to make the Kit Fisto saber hilt mod-compatible... it was released a while back to replace the default saber.)

By the way, I saw a question on some forum asking people if they really used WinZip to make their pk3s. I just wanted to say YES I DO. :) I see no need to get other software to do the same thing, and it's just as easy to me. Anyway, I think that's it for now!

Scotchy
10-18-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by PalnGipanji
By the way, I saw a question on some forum asking people if they really used WinZip to make their pk3s. I just wanted to say YES I DO. :) I see no need to get other software to do the same thing, and it's just as easy to me. Anyway, I think that's it for now!

Just to be clear... I didn't want to offend or belittle anyone's mod making techniques, I simply use a different program that I think is a bit truer to the purpose of the .pk3 format. PakScape (http://www.valve-erc.com/cgi-bin/files.pl?folder=/resources/&filename=pakscape-011.zip)'s (the program I use for compressing .pk3s) GUI is more like a Windows Explorer interface than winzip. I think it might be easier to use for new modders since it is so straightforward in it's purpose. As a matter of fact, it opens/saves .zip, .pk3, .pak, and .vol files... and it's free. But if you're comfortable with WinZip, then by all means WinZip your .pk3s. :)

PalnGipanji
10-18-2002, 04:46 PM
Oh, I wasn't offended. I thought I was the only one using WinZip though. :p

Don't sweat it. It really doesn't matter how it's packaged, as long as it works! But I will say that there really isn't a PK3 format... it's just a ZIP file with a different extension. It's all good tho. :)

Psynex
10-18-2002, 08:35 PM
Well, I got it to work finally. I can't say specifically what it was. Most everything you all wrote there I already knew and HAD tried, but they didn't work. I took too many steps to know EXACTLY what was causing the problem, but it could have been any of them. I went and moved around all the directories. I created a moc directory under the Tools directy (which was advice given to me a while ago that I tried then and didn't help). I also deleted all of the original files except the skin file. Then I went back into max, checked for any isolated vertexes (which I didn't see any) and deleted them with that wonderful button. I exported a new MD3 using the proper name instead of whatever I originally called it and then renaming it. I opened up Photoshop and exported the texture...all to the working directory. Then all I did was open the md3 in the viewer and the skin was already applied to the model. I was thrilled. One last thing to make it complete...

What size does the mod compatible icon have to be? What does it have to be named?

El Sitherino
10-18-2002, 08:38 PM
do you think i could take a shot at skinning one of those sabers?

GreenDevil
10-18-2002, 11:37 PM
http://www.hyperjump.net/velkoon/uqdsaber.jpg

Heres one more pic I found that might help you... Your model looks very close to the actual saber, except your missing those 4 little pointy thingy-majigurs that stick upwards from the top of the hilt... (have no idea what you would call them)

PalnGipanji
10-19-2002, 07:00 PM
Icon:

128x128

w_icon_lightsaber_na.tga

Glad you finally got it to work Psynex. Any screens?

Psynex
10-20-2002, 06:17 AM
I'm not quite finished with it, and wasn't going to show it off until the model it's being released with was done...but eh, what the hell right?! Let's see if I can get these to work. My domain is there, but I have no site up yet...Soon, very soon.

cool-lighting render (http://psynex-land.com/images/atari-2600js02.jpg)

render with my crappy skin job (http://psynex-land.com/images/atari-2600js03.jpg)

in-game shot(needs some more tweaking) (http://psynex-land.com/images/atari_screeny.jpg)

Scotchy
10-20-2002, 07:29 PM
I remodeled Ulic's Jedi saber and am finishing up the UVW unwrapping. I should be finished with the unwrapping and ready to skin both Jedi and Outcast sabers tomorrow (Monday).

Screenies:

Ulic Jedi Saber (512 Polies):
Pic 1 (http://users.chartertn.net/montrose/linked/wip_512_01.jpg)
Pic 2 (http://users.chartertn.net/montrose/linked/wip_512_02.jpg)

Replies:

InsaneSith: Sure! I'll send you out both of them with a full "toolkit". I suppose I should send the original .gmax file plus the .md3, .skin, and .glm right? Post a reply here or just PM me with soem info.

GreenDevil: I have those reference pics, but as far as I can tell... that saber is the one he used as a Sith Apprentice. I might make that one too since you mentioned it... it's not too much different from the Jedi saber.

Thanks for your comments guys... I'm learning alot here. I'll have some new stuff soon. And to fend off the release date questions: I'm shooting for the end of the week on the Outcast and Jedi sabers. I'm a full time college student, so I don't have an abundance of time to devote to this, but it is a priority.

El Sitherino
10-20-2002, 07:34 PM
thats sounds great i'd enjoy it also if you could check out my thread on titled WIP:Qi Na padawan saber. maybe you could help me out. oh ignore the first pictures i redid the model youll see it farther down. if you need to contact me you can reach me here (SirFobos2021@yahoo.com) or here (PunkSith@yourmom.com)

El Sitherino
10-20-2002, 09:31 PM
bu bu bu bump

El Sitherino
10-20-2002, 11:39 PM
hey scotchy just send them to the first one ok? uhm also could you help me with my saber or not?

GreenDevil
10-20-2002, 11:44 PM
Hey there Scotchy!

I think your doing a great time with this model, and I'm very impressed by your skills. If that saber IS the one he used as a Sith Apprentice I strongly hope you will make that one also. That one also seems to catch my eye, and it wouldn't take that much editing of your current saber to make it like that. Heres a pic I made of what would need to be changed:

http://www.hyperjump.net/velkoon/TEST.gif

(I have them numerically labeled to what each applies to)

1) Those box looking things that are placed around the hilt seem to be a little too short. To match the picture, they seem to need to be lifted to the yellow mark I made

2) Just a small circlular ring around the hilt need to be placed his to sort of jutt that area out a little

3) Nothing big, but maybe a button or two in this area

4) Those four dagger type spokes that jutt out from the top. They don't look very tall, so I suggest they only go as high as those yellow marks are in the picture.

Anyway, hoped that helped a little... great job and keep it up!!!

Scotchy
10-20-2002, 11:51 PM
I COMMAND THEE TO STOP SPAMMING MY THREAD!

To InsaneSith:

My AIM is Scotchy10008, contact me there if you need to speak with me IMMEDIATELY. I'll try to help as much as I can, but don't go insane and start madly bumping my thread. I'll go look at your saber and give you some pointers... BUT don't expect to get the sabers until tomorrow or tuesday. I'm not finished mapping yet and don't want to send you an incomplete uvw.

No need to reply to this until you actually have something to reply to. Just do as I instructed and all will be fine. And REMEMBER, AIM me if you DESPERATELY need to talk.

To Greendevil:

Thanks for the redraw, but I'm just going remodel to make the Sith saber. Modeling is actually the easy and fun part... the rest is where the tedium comes in. I'll try t omodel a basic one in the next 2 days and post some pics.

GreenDevil
10-22-2002, 12:54 AM
Sounds great Scotchy!!

Can't wait to see the pics, that saber looks awesome! :)

Scotchy
10-28-2002, 02:47 AM
Sorry for lack of updates... haven't really done too much with the models as of late. I'll try to have something new and useful to update with soon. I've gotten both of the sabers ingame, but without proper textures or finished uvwmaps.

Scotchy
10-30-2002, 11:58 AM
[UPDATE]
I got max 4.2 yesterday - YAYS - so now I'm going to move everything over to it and finish them up with max 4. I should have screenies of some newer WIPs soon including some early holiday sabers. I have been following that thread and noticed how IMHO odd the models being made looked and decided to try my hand at making a few of them. I've made the champagne bottle, beer can, christmas tree, and have a squash (for no other reason than to have a squash :)). The champagne bottle looks great ingame (with MY sabermod of course :)), but I don't plan on relesing it until I've discussed it with TheWhiteRaider.
[UPDATE]

I'm having an interesting "problem" with my tags. When I began this whole crazy mini-adventure, I started out using this (http://www.btinternet.com/~howe_alison/brothers/tutorial/gmax_jkii_tutorial.htm) tutorial by -=[FBF]=-. In his tutorial, in his description of the creation and orientation of tag_flash he says:

Tags are just simple, one-faced triangles, with a right angle and one side twice the length of the other. The way the tags are aligned defines the orientation of what they represent, i.e. which way the saber lies in the hand. So, lets make a tag. Draw a right-angled triangle with a spline, convert it to an editable poly, and call it tag_flash.

No problem there... but then he goes on:

Tag "flash" is where the blade is emitted, so move it into the emitter 'dish', and orientate it to face like this: PICTURE (http://www.btinternet.com/~howe_alison/brothers/tutorial/saber_tagplaced.jpg)

Here is where my problem lies... when I orient my tags the way it shows in the picture, my blade emits out of the side of the hilt. The tutorial suggests that the blade emits from the sharper point attached to the shortest edge, but when I make hilts the blade emits from the exact center of the triangle and aligns along the longest edge.

Example:

Tutorial Tags:
|\
|_\
|__\
|___\ __ __ __ __ __ >&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (emits from \ lower edge)

My Tags:

&nbsp; &nbsp; ^
&nbsp; &nbsp; |
&nbsp; &nbsp; |
&nbsp; &nbsp; |
&nbsp; &nbsp; |
&nbsp; &nbsp; |
|\&nbsp;|
|_\| _ _ _ _ _ (triangle XYZ center, emits from)
|__\
|___\


I've not stumbled over this or anything (I simply align the tag the way that works) but I would like to know if this is an isolated incident or if this is a failing of the tutorial.

GeoCarBo
11-11-2002, 05:22 AM
I am also having a similar problem with my tag_flash. I have followed two different tutorials where it states that the blade is emitted along the shortest side of the flash tag. I position the tag exactly as it shows in the following tutorial,

http://www.massassi.com/coffeestain/03.html

However, after generating the control file, exporting the model from Milkshape 3D to a .md3 file, ... exporting a .glm file from Md3view, packaging etc... I open up the saber in game and the saber comes out of the hilt sideways. (Yes ,I would start new games when changing models).

After repeating this same disaster a few times, I imported the .glm file back into Milkshape 3d to see what was happening with my tag_flash and I noticed that the tag triangle was pointing upwards (long sides upward). I'm not sure why the position was altered through the export process.

Maybe I'm missing something that I should be doing with my flash tag that the tutorial is missing? I've been sifting through tutorial after tutorial and I haven't seen a lot of basic information relating to tag issues. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Scotchy
11-11-2002, 08:58 AM
I you just align it with the saber emitting along the longest edge from the exact center of the triangle it usually works. About .qc files... I don't like them. Maybe you should just use a simple .skin file.

Charon
11-15-2002, 09:53 PM
I've been working on a saber hilt myself, for an SP conversion a couple of my friends are working on. But no matter what I do, I can't get tag_flash to work correctly. The blade allways seems to emit off to the side, no matter which way I orient the tag_flash

Could one of you who actually got this to work explain exactly what tag_flash is supposed to be? I'm using Gmax, if that helps at all.

And yes, I did ask this question in a separate post, sorry for reapeating, but now I know I found somone who got this stuff to work.

Thanks,

--Charon

Charon
11-16-2002, 06:23 PM
Finally got my tag to work. I had to place it exactly opposite of the way it's been suggested here... *sigh* Oh well, it works correctly now.

Low Poly test of the model is done, (my first modeling attempt, except for this half done... thing, I'll probably never finish.)

UVW for my saber hilt is done, as is skinning, aside from a little cleanup.

Ingame works, allthough the coloration of the body vs the emitter and pommel seem too close.

For the Higher poly model, I'm planning a strange kindof spiral handgrip. Would it be unadvised to attempt something like this? Uhh, Ascii render coming up...

| |
|\ |
| \|
| |
| \|
| |
|\ |
[__]

The slashes being the spiral ridges. I was thinking of making them a separate object in the model, and just projecting through the main body. Is that going to cause an issue anywhere?

Edit: Gah, bad ascii, bad! Instead of trying, I'll point out that the main body is a straight pipe, no features other than the raised grip. So ignore the badly done Saber above. ;>

GeoCarBo
11-16-2002, 09:12 PM
I eventually figured out the correct direction for my tag_flash. I had to direct mine so that the side opposite the Hypotenuse was the line of emission. The point of the tag_flash triangle was pointed downward. I'm not sure why it's different from the posted advice or the tutorials for that matter. I'd be interested to find out.

^
^
-----------
|
|
|
|
|
|


Thanks again for the help

Charon
11-16-2002, 09:17 PM
That's pretty much exactly the way I had to do it. Irritating little punk, that tag is. Now I'm trying to get tag_parent aligned so kyle grips the saber in the right place. Of course, no position I've tried seems to work.

Anyone know if tag_parent even has a bearing at all on this?

Haseco
11-20-2002, 09:16 PM
u really dont need the tag_parent...point (0,0,0) is the tag_parent if that tag isnt stated otherwise. The tag_flash is tricky...usually i take one guess run with the tag oriented the corrent way and then from what i see in game (i suggest take a screenshot or printscreen..just in case u forget) i rotate, etc.

Psynex
11-21-2002, 10:32 AM
Both tutorials are not correct and I'm really surprised they haven't been fixed by now. The blade does emit from the long end.

Best solution to make life easier:
1) Import the standard saber from the pk3
2) Merge your saber into the scene
3) Move your saber into place (where the original is) and orient it appropriately
4) Delete the original saber
5) Tweak the tags placement on your saber using only Move

Scotchy
12-02-2002, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Psynex
Both tutorials are not correct and I'm really surprised they haven't been fixed by now. The blade does emit from the long end.

Best solution to make life easier:
1) Import the standard saber from the pk3
2) Merge your saber into the scene
3) Move your saber into place (where the original is) and orient it appropriately
4) Delete the original saber
5) Tweak the tags placement on your saber using only Move

The only problem with that is that the tags don't import with the saber_W.md3 using GMAX or MAX 4.2 (or at least they never did with my importers).

Work on these things are progressing slowly... when finals are over, I should have much more time to work on them. Until then... ah who cares... they're just a bunch of sabers anyway.

They'll be done after Christmas.

Scotchy
02-19-2003, 04:47 PM
I'm not dead... I still have these.

I'll get to releasing them eventually.

Scotchy
03-07-2003, 03:13 AM
Can you beleive it? I actually FINISHED one of these bastards.

DOWNLOAD NOW (http://users.chartertn.net/montrose/downloads/ulicjedisaber.zip)

I'll be relaeasing the rest of them soon.

GreenDevil
03-08-2003, 01:46 AM
Can't wait for the Sith version! :)

GreenDevil
03-20-2003, 12:10 AM
Hey Scotchy, you still there?

I'm really looking forward to that Sith saber version... Is that still being made or has it been junked?

Classic Luke
03-22-2003, 07:35 PM
Hope u still here scotchy as i enjoy usin your ulic jedi hilt :)
Nothing would please me more however, to be wielding the outcast saber hilt he uses in the dark horsse comic redemption :)

Cough, i guess the only thing that Would please me more is an ulic player model (as he appears in Redemption) , (ahem) :)))
(hint, hint, wink, wink)... :)

Keep up the awesome work!!!