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View Full Version : Jokes about suicide are no jokes.


Charsi_Morgha
10-15-2002, 06:29 AM
I'm sure everyone who's played EMI remembers the scene where Guybrush walks over to the cliff edge outside the mansion and yells: "Farewell cruel world!"
Then suddenly he changes his mind about commiting suicide and says "Nah!"

Call me sensitive, but I find this joke rather rude. People who are seriously thinking about suicide, don't change their minds just like that.
Those who think about killing themselves are people who are so depressed they feel life has nothing to give them. I think it's very mean and insensitive to joke about something which certain people feel they have no other alternative but to do.

In my opinion that joke in EMI expresses nothing but foolish lack of understanding for the suffering of people who don't live under good conditions.

Krekk
10-15-2002, 07:09 AM
I feel differently. I cracked up when I heard that joke... I just found it funny.

Junior™
10-15-2002, 08:32 AM
Sorry to say that but I'm with Krekk.

I felt well entertained when I heard this one for the first time.

ThunderPeel2001
10-15-2002, 10:06 AM
"NO!". It's a joke just like anything else. Does the fact that the entire Monkey Island series makes light of savage murderous psychopaths bother you? The fact that it makes the idea of being a pirate seem "fun"? No? Then why on earth should this?

~ John

Alien426
10-15-2002, 10:11 AM
I'm with Charsi_Morgha.

I lost a good friend that way. Threw himself in front of a train. He used to be such a (seemingly) happy guy... With lots of friends, too. Sucked at school, but I would have expected nothing but good for his future life. I can't believe it's almost 8 and a half years ago, it still makes me sad.

On the other hand, I'm not really mad at anyone for putting in that joke. If you made jokes about planes crashing into skyscrapers before 2001-11-09 people would have laughed. You won't be too sensible until you experience that kind of loss.

MrManager
10-15-2002, 10:54 AM
I couldn't disagree more, especially since you got the quote wrong, as well as the meaning of it. The line was "Good-bye cruel adventure game! Eh, forget it." It was a joke which wasn't meant to be taken seriously, spoken by a computer game character who was just acknowledging that it is all just a computer game. It was obviously not a comment on suicide.

Governor Phatt
10-15-2002, 12:03 PM
I have to agree with RemiO. Its a joke made about adventure games and stuff...

I know quite a few people who have suffered from serious depression, and have attempted suicide, (unsuccessfully thankfuly)
But this is a joke, its not like its aimed at anyone or taking the piss out of suicide...

scabb
10-15-2002, 12:51 PM
Life doesn't have to be taken so seriously all the time. There are much worst things than suicide jokes, in fact, there are much worst things than suicide. It's your life, and it's yours to do whatever you want with, although suicide is probably not a very good idea.

Charsi_Morgha
10-15-2002, 02:57 PM
Sure, sure... there is no point in taking life to seriously...but you tell that to the people who are depressed. They wouldn't be depressed if things would seem so hard and serious.
True, the joke might not have been intended as a joke about suicide, but then again it looked a bloody lot like one! You never know how people might interpret these things!
It's good to joke about things, it's good to joke about life... but why not joke about non-serious things or fantastic things such as when Guybrush in CMI said to Murray: "Your about as fearsome as a doorstop!" And Murray replied: "Is it a really EVIL looking doorstop?" (I'm quite sure I got THOSE lines right!)
I don't see how anyone could be offended by CMI's slightly childish humour with lines like these!

Governor Phatt
10-15-2002, 06:49 PM
Well, it does... : P its not like the whole games is about death and suicide.
You cant really say that its disrespectful or whatever because of one joke.

And besides, the joke only happens when you got to "use" the cliff anyway. So what else would have expected to happen...?

Hellbeard
10-15-2002, 09:29 PM
My brother suffers from depression, and he was sucicidal at one point. I laughed at the joke, it was unexpected and funny!

mercatfat
10-15-2002, 09:51 PM
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81071

IT DROVE DRACIYA OVER THE EDGE (oh, the pun), DAMMIT. NOT FUNNY AT ALL. IT ALL MAKES SENSE.

until you think about it.

Hellbeard
10-15-2002, 10:33 PM
Ok, that's a little scary! I can't tell if that is for real or just a sick joke, but I doubt that he actualy "killed" himself. And anyways, if you were to kill yourself, why would you tell your internet buddies anyways!?

Living is only the core of ones actual existence

mercatfat
10-15-2002, 10:36 PM
Because no one she cares about would be around to read her poorly written suicide note (http://www.theonion.com/onion3203/suicidenotes.html).

Or something.

Justin Michaels
10-16-2002, 04:05 AM
Interesting point. If it offends you, why do you play the game? Even more important, if it offends you, why bother others. If it offends them, they won't play the game. Rude, is not the word, offensive is.

However what I have stated above (asked really) is only true if you accept the modern form of liberalism put forth by John Stuart Mill in his landmark book, ON LIBERTY. He draws a distinction between things that offend and things that cause physical harm (not emotional). Of course he was talking about government, not person to person discussions.

I guess what I am asking, is: Just because you cannot see the humor or find it offensive, why do you think that it should offend others, or maybe you are just seeing what others thought?

I am hard to offend, mostly because to offend you have to care about what whoever is (or are in terms of LucasArts) making the joke, comment, whatever, thinks. You give others power when you do that. Forget it, forget EMI.

Also suicide is a religious matter most often. Many faiths believe that taking something that they were given from God (life) and throw it away, is a sin; then comes damnation, etc. However many other individuals think that everything=nothing or some variant, so destruction equals action, not negative action on the world. Suicide can be seen as a perfectly reasonable option. Its a tragedy most often, because the people who are around to find the individual are hurt, but many times someone who goes to such lengths is in much pain. Examples include Kevorkian's "patients", and elderly who are in advanced stages of fatal, and painful diseases.

Oh well food for thought. I don't advocate one way or another from above, mostly because I don't want to get yelled at too much. After all if Guybrush really wants to do himself in, he should move to Oregon.

BTW, Physician assisted suicide is legal in Oregon.

Alien426
10-16-2002, 04:52 AM
I wanted to say about the same thing Charsi_Morgha posted earlier:
MI1, MI2 and CMI didn't have such jokes and were very funny. It was often said that EMI was disappointing. Therefore I say that you CAN be sensible about it. It seems it would never have crossed the other writers to put in such a joke.
Of course it sucks to have be politically correct all the time and think about what might offend some customers. Monkey Island shouldn't even be touching those issues, since it's... it just doesn't fit!

I'm somewhat surprised no one mentioned the suicide booths in Futurama.
They are a different chapter. Futurama WAS about that kind of controversial humor.

Charsi_Morgha
10-16-2002, 03:47 PM
To reply to Thunderpeel's question about wether or not I'm concerned about the fact that the games are about "murderous psychopaths"... my reply is simply: The games are NOT about "murderous psychopaths", in case you haven't noticed.
The only psychopath seems to be LeChuck.
I mean, how many battles has Guybrush lost without being killed? A lot, yet nobody has cut his throat yet.
The only things these pirates seem to care about are grog and booty (LeChuck still being the exception). They're not REAL pirates... Nor are they in the REAL Caribean.

Governor Phatt
10-17-2002, 08:33 AM
But then thats the point, because guybrush didnt really commit suicide either.

Krekk
10-17-2002, 04:31 PM
You can't die in Lucasarts adventure games, it was a joke about that. Stop taking things so seriously.

ThunderPeel2001
10-18-2002, 09:10 AM
??? God, you're stupid, CM!!!

They are MAKING FUN of psychopathic murderous people just like (according to you at least) they were MAKING FUN of suicide. It's not exactly difficult to figure out the similarities! *geez*!

I wish I hadn't edited my first post now to make it more polite. In case you were wondering I inferred that you were probably saying this just to start a fight with everyone.

This is coming from someone who has suffered from depression several times throughout his life -- It's a JOKE that comes from YOU telling Guybrush to jump! Plain and simple!

~ John

MagnusB
10-21-2002, 11:39 AM
For all your extensively-offensive-joke-ative needs....:

Dirty Proverbs (http://www.dirty-proverbs.com)...:eek: :eek:

SeaWitch
10-23-2002, 02:58 PM
Look, CM... I have tried to commit suicide on three occasions at least, and thus ended up in the psych ward at an undisclosed (on the board) hospital. They had me on so many drugs, I didn't know which end was up. I had to attend meetings on why life is wonderful and all kinds of happy crap. I even joined the late night craft therapy (okay so the counsellor was this cool witch from England). In the immortal words of the animated Butthead, "Thisth sthucks worsth than anything that hasth ever sthucked before." It was a nightmare...because I played Silent Hill too much.

I tried to make him walk off the cliff, and laughed hysterically at his comments. Maybe its just me, and the fact that Guybrush can do no wrong. I didn't find it remotely offensive.

I do, however, appreciate your concern, and I don't think the others on this board should be yelling at you for your comment. It's meritous, but not necessarily something you should worry about. People who play Monkey Island aren't going to be offended by Guybrush's actions. He's an idiot. (But we love him). Its all good, girlfriend. It takes a brave soul, with this lot, and an open heart to criticize anything in MI.

Y'all, be nice to her now, she was just concerned. :urpboun:

Acrylic
10-23-2002, 10:38 PM
Ill be nice but god, hes just saying "goodbye cruel adventure game" not "i wanna die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" i mean, that would be different if he did that, but its a fictional char. pretending to try and kill himself in a fictional game.....understood???

SeaWitch
10-23-2002, 11:44 PM
Oh completely! Like I said, I found it hysterical! I can't find fault with Guybrush. I know where you're coming from AG. But then, how can I trust a guy who has "the smoking man" as his picture?
:D

Alien426
10-24-2002, 01:38 AM
EMI sucks! (http://www.scummbar.com/resources/articles/read.php?id=20)

... and that's just it. I'm through with pretending it had some good parts and being thankful for any Monkey Island game.

ThunderPeel2001
10-24-2002, 07:31 AM
I agree with her, it's only an opinion and EMI doesn't change the other great games that came before it. I wish CMI looked more "realistic" but it's still a great game. EMI had too many faults (mainly with it's ending) -- it made me laugh until that point.

~ John

Meksilon
10-24-2002, 11:10 PM
ThunderPeel2001 you disquest me. "??? God, you're stupid, CM!!!"

I agree with Charsi_Morgha, let's face it EMI sucks to the extreme. CMI was an "in the name of only" sequal and was a good game but not a good ammendment to Monkey Island. EMI was a bad game and a bad addition to the MI series.

Do any of you think MI5 is going to ressurect our old MI1/MI2 Guybrush hero - or even the demented CMI version? No we're stuck with a stupid puppy dog.

Well back on topic: the joke was insensitive and misplaced.

=mek=

mercatfat
10-24-2002, 11:35 PM
Lucasarts didn't really make EMI, Meksilon! It was all a huge cover-up! Look at the way Guybrush's shadow was cast in the opening cutscene! That just can't happen with the angle of the lighting! Also, how could the pirate flag be waving if it was on the ocean where NO WIND EXISTS!? Don't believe what Lucasarts tells you, you simple minded fool. Think for yourself for once.

Jake
10-24-2002, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Meksilon
CMI was an "in the name of only" sequal and was a good game but not a good ammendment to Monkey Island.

You've so completely offended some of the most creative people working in gaming for no reason at all. CMI wasn't bad. Why do fans have to be such ******* bitches all the time? Sheesh.

Alien426
10-25-2002, 01:45 AM
At first I thought I wouldn't like CMI. But I love it. It's funny, beautiful (video [nice comic style, good animations] and audio [music, voices]) and a worthy Monkey Island game. Good puzzles most of the time, nice characters, a lot of good ideas...

Mercatfat is right. I've always suspected something, now with this new evidence I can finally prove it. *off, takes EMI box from the Monkey Island collection and places it in a dark corner of the room that smells strange*

SeaWitch
10-25-2002, 02:00 AM
Okay...good. We can get it off our chests that EMI sucked in the worst way. I must say that the jokes weren't even funny. The only thing I liked was Guybrush making passes at various people. That was it. The islands were okay to explore, but towards the end of the game, it became a major and total suck fest. I can't even bring myself to play it again to see if I find it more amusing this time.

raVen_image
10-25-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by lil' Jake
...******* bitches all the time?
Hahahaha ... random, misplaced cursing is soooooo funny.:rolleyes:

You've done it again, lil' Jake.

Sarah
10-25-2002, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by raVen_image


You've done it again, lil' Jake.

Jake's my boyfriend. He's pretty tall.

I'm pretty sure he didn't like CMI at first. Heh.

Jake
10-25-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by raVen_image

Hahahaha ... random, misplaced cursing is soooooo funny.:rolleyes:

You've done it again, lil' Jake.

pfft. someone had to try and shut Meksilon up. arguing with his points does nothing but make him stream off into a series of random only half-related tangents, after which he mysteriously declares himself the winner of the argument. sound familiar?

SamNMax
10-25-2002, 05:21 PM
EMI did not suck to me. And If it sucked to all you, why are some of you on the EMI forums when you don't like the game? Anyway, To all those EMI bashers, well, I don't know why I'm saying this and I know this shouldn't offend me but, WHY THE HELL CAN'T YOU GUYS SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!!?? We've all herd it before, okay? EMI's story was no different from any other MI game! Do you people have a short term memory or something? Don't you remember you've all said that 20,000 times now? I know it's difficult to remember that you hate the game but try to remember, okay?

SamNMax
10-25-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by SeaWitch
Oh completely! Like I said, I found it hysterical! I can't find fault with Guybrush. I know where you're coming from AG. But then, how can I trust a guy who has "the smoking man" as his picture?
:D


GTA Vice City. Get with the time.

Monkeysee
10-25-2002, 05:23 PM
Let's get back to the subject, if only for a few seconds. Take a look at this: if you want rude suicide jokes, look here. This is a much, much more cruel joke about suicides than could ever come out of any MI game. (This is the source that mercatfat posted earlier.)
http://www.theonion.com/onion3203/suicidenotes.html

Gabez
10-25-2002, 06:34 PM
Yeah, I don’t think that joke was “insensitive and misplaced” at all. I’ve seen similar jokes used countless times in other media forms. And many more serious than the one used in EMI. Although it *is* true that suicide jokes – real “jokes” – are usually not funny at all. It’s all about how you handle very serious situations. I mean, people make light-hearted jokes about death all the time.

Originally posted by SeaWitch
Okay...good. We can get it off our chests that EMI sucked in the worst way. I must say that the jokes weren't even funny. The only thing I liked was Guybrush making passes at various people. That was it. The islands were okay to explore, but towards the end of the game, it became a major and total suck fest. I can't even bring myself to play it again to see if I find it more amusing this time.

I honestly couldn’t disagree more. Well, maybe I could. But I thought EMI was a really fun game, and very well made. It’s not the best game ever, but it was very funny and it was a huge pleasure playing through it.

SamNMax
10-25-2002, 07:49 PM
Thank you!

scabb
10-26-2002, 07:59 AM
Well, at first, I thought that EMI was a rather good game. Sure, the puzzles were a little unclear in places, and the story had a few holes gouged in it either side, but it was funny, it looked fine, the dialogue was up to its usual standards, and I enjoyed it.

Upon playing it again though, I realised that the makers of this game had been truly insensitive including this horrendous joke about the act of taking ones life.

"Good-bye cruel adventure game! Eh, forget it."

I immediatly broke the EMI CDs into several million pieces with a tofee hammer, and then tossed them into the oven and made them burn at Gas Mark 7 for six hours. I then took the EMI box and fed it to a pack of rabid geese, who pecked it into pieces, which I then submerged in water for 11 minutes.

What a disgusting, offensive game.

MrManager
10-26-2002, 12:09 PM
Then you probably destroyed the CMI CDs also. Remember that scene where Guybrush mixed medication and alcohol? Talk about promoting illegal substances!

SeaWitch
10-27-2002, 05:09 AM
RemiO, this isn't a total response to your last post, as I understand where you are coming from. This is just a response to this particular thread in general.

Its all good....We, as human beings have a right to have an opinion. So some of us didn't find EMI funny, and some of us didn't find CMI funny. As the old saying goes, "You can't win them all."

I found nothing offensive in any of the games, however, I understand that some people might, and that's fine. Be that as it may...whatever....etc.

I will make a comment in my defense, though.


"Get with the time?" Sam, was this some pretentiously snide comment regarding something that I may or may not have heard of? (Which I have, as was recomended to buy Grand Theft Auto by my brother.) Oh pardon me if I am not as enlightened as some people!!! I was making a funny comment, rehashing an old joke, playing upon an old theme.

So I will say this: Don't you respond to me with condescension, as if connecting the reference to GTA makes you someone worthy of the utmost esteem! In fact, don't patronize me at all, for any reason! Tell me when I'm wrong, call me out for being cruel, but DO NOT EVER talk down to me because you have experienced the pleasure of an animated guy smoking a cigarette in video game. Oh, that makes you so superior, pssht! :snear:

Kryllith
10-30-2002, 02:15 PM
I was going to do that with my cds, but I said "Ah, forget it" at the last moment. I'm with SeaWitch on this one. Having been suicidal a number of times (and hospitalized once), having had a mother that was suicidal for many years (and hospitalized several times), having known people that commit suicide, and I honestly say that I didn't find this joke the slightest bit offensive. Fact is, it's one of my favorites in the game. Maybe I'm just morbid, or maybe I just like the fact that Guybrush is nuts and people shouldn't have to get upset when he does things like that.

If you're offended or concerned about people who are at-risk, maybe you should devote your energy to them instead of taking it out on a game. It's like arguing that various types of music or role-playing are the central theme behind people commiting suicide, and focusing energy on getting said music/games banned instead of helping out individuals with their problems. (And if you ARE the kind of person that does look deep enough to discover the real problems behind someone's depression and you're willing to take steps to help said person recover, then thank you).

Kryllith

SeaWitch
10-30-2002, 11:52 PM
What can I say? Beautifully put.

SamNMax
11-01-2002, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by SeaWitch


I will make a comment in my defense, though.


"Get with the time?" Sam, was this some pretentiously snide comment regarding something that I may or may not have heard of? (Which I have, as was recomended to buy Grand Theft Auto by my brother.) Oh pardon me if I am not as enlightened as some people!!! I was making a funny comment, rehashing an old joke, playing upon an old theme.

So I will say this: Don't you respond to me with condescension, as if connecting the reference to GTA makes you someone worthy of the utmost esteem! In fact, don't patronize me at all, for any reason! Tell me when I'm wrong, call me out for being cruel, but DO NOT EVER talk down to me because you have experienced the pleasure of an animated guy smoking a cigarette in video game. Oh, that makes you so superior, pssht! :snear:


Hey, hey! Sorry, I was just kidding. I didn't think you would take it so seariously! It was a cool avatar, too. Not because it has a tobbaco product, but because the smoke, you know, it moves.

SeaWitch
11-02-2002, 06:23 AM
Oops:eyes3: Sorry... I now feel like a major *******. Sorry, Sam, for in the immortal words of Murray, "Sorry, it's been a rough day." I am officially a retard. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I'm really a sweet witch-girl, I promise. :angel:

SamNMax
11-07-2002, 01:50 PM
It's okay. Hey! Your all right!

Porky
11-07-2002, 02:49 PM
As a matter of fact, Guybrush says:
'Goodbye cruel world! Eh, forget it.'
and plus, don't be such a loser. It was just a joke!

Yoghurt
11-08-2002, 03:25 AM
If you're gonna blame games for violence, DON'T Blame Monkey Island I say... That game is supposed to be funny, and it is :D

Now,
If there are games that cause violence, blame games like Phantasmagoria and stuff like that.

SamNMax
11-08-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Porky
As a matter of fact, Guybrush says:
'Goodbye cruel world! Eh, forget it.'
and plus, don't be such a loser. It was just a joke!


No. He says "Goodbye! Crule ADVENTURE GAME

ADVENTURE GAME

ADVENTURE GAME


It's a joke! It's not real life! It's an ADVENTURE GAME!!


P.S. I also think people who think other people will kill, or kill themselves and blame it on video games are real stupid ****s

SeaWitch
11-08-2002, 11:42 AM
You're probably right, Sam, however, we have a whole society based on blaming other people for our mistakes. Kids carry guns to school, let's blame Monty Python (Yes, there was a reference made about Monty Python after the Columbine shooting). It's us as parent's that need to be vigilant.

"Timmy, you don't run around shooting people when you're sad. I don't care what Masta G Funk Revolutionary Solja Dawg, says. He just wants to be sensational so you'll buy his albums. Really, he's a poor pathetic loser who can't ryhme," Mommy of Timmy.

"Biff, there is no reason to pick on someone because she or his is different from you. That's what makes the world diverse and interesting. If I get one more phone call about you bullying some kid at school, and I'm a witch so I'll know, then I'm going to take away your convertible, sell it, and make you drive a Pinto. Don't think I won't do it, either," Me to my son, should he ever turn out to be a bully. (No, I do not have a son named Biff)

Honestly, if some one is going to kill themself or another person, doesn't that scream of pre-existing mental psychosis? I don't think a video game/song/movie is going to affect them that much more. If they're going to do it....They're going to do it or attempt it.

Also, I'm all for cracking down on bullying in schools, because if you look at cases both in current school crimes, and crimes committed later by crazy adults, you'll find that being bullied is a factor. I think there needs to be serious reprocutions for bullying, because it's a form of violence and torture. It breeds hatred among people, and then they turn out like our government or Charles Manson.

SamNMax
11-09-2002, 10:13 PM
Very well put, SeaWitch. :)

cancon
11-24-2002, 03:30 PM
some peple will kill thme selfs just becus of tv ot the start of 2001 i herd on the readeo that sumone murrded sumone leving a note that sed you are the weacust link good bye some pepple are sick it is making me sick

Kryllith
11-25-2002, 01:58 PM
Rest assurd, someone did not commit homocide just because they watched The Weakest Link. People who commit homocide, suicide, infantcide, or whatnot do so because they are screwed in the head psychologically (unless it's an act of national war, in which case it's not considered homocide...).

Kryllith

scabb
11-25-2002, 06:53 PM
Kryllith, that was an extremely foolish statement. You can't even begin to comprehend what being "screwed-up in the head" is for a start - It's just something your mother told you. I personally don't understand how a person can be labelled as 'sane' or 'insane', when clearly all minds are different.

As for the psychology, there are two debates, and I'm sure you've heard this: Nature Vs. Nurture. If, lets say, this person did have the urge to kill, was it nature that brought it on? Was he born like that? Or, did society, a society that you live in, contribute to his apparent insanity? Is it wrong to kill if that's what you've been brought up to believe is right? There's a whole bunch of stuff that you can go into. But, there's a better point.

A lot of people kill from fear. Some kill from hatred or revenge. Self Defense. All are considered mittigating circumstances, and a case should be judged on its own merits.

To say that it's okay to kill someone as long as your country says you can is also a rather warped view.

Kryllith
11-26-2002, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by scabb
Kryllith, that was an extremely foolish statement. You can't even begin to comprehend what being "screwed-up in the head" is for a start - It's just something your mother told you. I personally don't understand how a person can be labelled as 'sane' or 'insane', when clearly all minds are different.

As for the psychology, there are two debates, and I'm sure you've heard this: Nature Vs. Nurture. If, lets say, this person did have the urge to kill, was it nature that brought it on? Was he born like that? Or, did society, a society that you live in, contribute to his apparent insanity? Is it wrong to kill if that's what you've been brought up to believe is right? There's a whole bunch of stuff that you can go into. But, there's a better point.

A lot of people kill from fear. Some kill from hatred or revenge. Self Defense. All are considered mittigating circumstances, and a case should be judged on its own merits.

To say that it's okay to kill someone as long as your country says you can is also a rather warped view.
I think it depends on how you define homocide (or other forms of side). I wouldn't consider killing someone in self-defense homocide (manslaughter perhaps), but then that's simply my distinction. If you set out to intentionally kill someone (not in self-defense) you're screwed in the head. By this I don't mean that someone is necessarily insane (though the person in Cancon's example may be riding the line), since, as you point out, there's a societal basis to consider. If you want to look at individual killers for potential insanity we can do that on a case to case basis. Am I being egocentric in my opinion? Certainly, it as MY opinion after all. And if you think it's foolish then that's you're opinion, but that doesn't make either opinion correct...

As for my mother, well after having her be hospitalized several times for attempted suicided, after having to help her work through mental breakdowns as the result of attempting to raise two children on her own, working a highly stressful job with learning-disabled children for virtually no pay, and people basically not giving a crap about her, I'd kindly ask you to not make snide remarks about someone YOU don't know anything about.

Btw, I don't agree with society saying that it's right to kill other people (such as in times of war). But soldiers aren't likely to get dragged into a courtroom for charges of murder for killing the opposition in battle. Nor is there likely to be a criminal investigation or psychiatric evaluation for performing their duty...

Kryllith

scabb
11-26-2002, 11:35 AM
Yes, Kryllith, but there is a clear difference between mentally disabled people, and mentally insane people. The latter is the one that I cannot comprehend.

My basic point was, that it's not just being "screwed up in the head" that causes people to kill. There are a multitude of reasons, some which may be acceptable (to me) in certain cases. Forget the legal terminology. The law is certainly not perfect, and It should be used as a basic guideline as to what is right. All legal systems have had there failings, particularly in this section.

Oh, and my mother works at a school with mentally disabled children too, and I chose that as my work experience course when I was studying for GCSEs, so please don't lecture me about the mentally disabled - Which, might I add, has nothing to do with this argument anyway. Besides, I made no snide comments about your mother anyway, nor depressed people in general, and to bring up her suffering in order to win an argument is a very pathetic thing to do.

cancon
11-26-2002, 12:52 PM
but that is what i herd on the radio





Originally posted by Kryllith
Rest assurd, someone did not commit homocide just because they watched The Weakest Link. People who commit homocide, suicide, infantcide, or whatnot do so because they are screwed in the head psychologically (unless it's an act of national war, in which case it's not considered homocide...).

Kryllith

Kryllith
11-26-2002, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by scabb
Oh, and my mother works at a school with mentally disabled children too, and I chose that as my work experience course when I was studying for GCSEs, so please don't lecture me about the mentally disabled - Which, might I add, has nothing to do with this argument anyway. Besides, I made no snide comments about your mother anyway, nor depressed people in general, and to bring up her suffering in order to win an argument is a very pathetic thing to do.
You said that I "couldn't comprehend what being 'screw-up in the head' is for a start - It's just [my] mother told [me]." Seeing as my mother considers herself to be screwed up in the head as a result of her situation (and her depression), I personally think it's quite relavent to the conversation. If you need to see this as some sort of simpathy plea, that's your perogative, but that's hardly the reason I brought up the matter. Besides, whoever said I was lecturing to you about the mentally disabled? (Btw, just to clear up any possible confusing, I wasn't ever refering to mentally disabled people as being "screwed in the head.")

My basic point was, that it's not just being "screwed up in the head" that causes people to kill. There are a multitude of reasons, some which may be acceptable (to me) in certain cases. Forget the legal terminology. The law is certainly not perfect, and It should be used as a basic guideline as to what is right. All legal systems have had there failings, particularly in this section.
Yes, and there are a number of situations where I can see killing as acceptable and/or necessary such as in self defense when someone's protecting his/her own life (as I previously stated). The point where it comes to people being screwed in the head is when they commit murder for fun, or boredom, or because they feel a need to prove something, which is what I was refering to in my original post and reiterated on when discussing homocide in my last post. The one thing I admit is that I should have added "and/or socially" when I mentioned someone being screwed in the head psychologically. Since society can affect us psychologically (as you noted--nature vs. nurture), I simply grouped them together.

Kryllith

Kryllith
11-26-2002, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by cancon
but that is what i herd on the radio

Oh I don't doubt that the event happened. I'm just saying that any people that watch The Weakest Link doesn't suddenly get the mad desire to rush off and kill someone...

Kryllith

scabb
11-26-2002, 07:38 PM
No, the point is, that your original post was narrow minded and incorrect, and I quote:

People who commit homocide, suicide, infantcide, or whatnot do so because they are screwed in the head psychologically (unless it's an act of national war, in which case it's not considered homocide...).

Kryllith

Also:

You said that I "couldn't comprehend what being 'screw-up in the head' is for a start - It's just [my] mother told [me]."

Please explain what "Being screwed up in the head" is all about then.

Kryllith
11-27-2002, 08:57 AM
How is it incorrect? I know what I meant when I mentioned homocide, suicide, and infantcide. Just because you don't interpret it the same way I do doesn't mean it's incorrect. As for it being narrow-minded? Perhaps it is, but that again is dependent on how one interprets what I'm talking about (which wasn't self-defense).

Ok, by being "screwed up in the head" I do not mean "insane", which is apparently how you interpreted it in the beginning (I could be wrong, mind you, but that's the way it seems). By "screwed up in the head" I mean people that feel they have the right to kill whomever they want without lethal provocation. They aren't doing it as an act of self defense to protect their own lifes of the lifes of others. They're doing because they want to call attention to themselves, or because someone "looked at them wrong", or because they need to feel a power trip. These are people I'd consider "screwed up in the head."

Kryllith

scabb
11-27-2002, 12:13 PM
This is my final post on this topic, unless someone adds something fun, or you really wind me up.

It is incorrect, because homicide is not just commited by people who are "screwed up in the head". There are billions of other reasons too, such as revenge, vengeance, trying to get back at someone, etc. They're probably the most common.

What you mean by "screwed up in the head" does not really portray someone who has commited homicide - It is the portrayal of a serial killer, I suppose - but even then, that's a narrow minded approach to make. Some people just have shorter fuses than others, and go to more extreme lengths.

This discussion was fun.

Ztev
11-27-2002, 12:20 PM
I hope no one takes offence, but this god damn thread makes me want to commit suicide.

Yoghurt
11-28-2002, 03:51 AM
Ok, bgbennyboy, or whoever, close this thread :)

let's all shake hands, make a little group hug http://mysmilies.no-ip.com/mysmilies/GroupHug.gif

and just say that monkey island is whatever you think of it :D


Case closed

scabb
11-28-2002, 11:28 AM
Yoghurt, if we all agreed with each other, and everything was good in the world, there'd be nothing interesting in these forums. It would just be endless posts of people agreeing with each other.

Just because people argue in a thread, that's no reason for it to be closed.

bgbennyboy
11-28-2002, 12:10 PM
Precisely and arguement is entertaining (particulary when it involves those of us with geography teacher avatars).

Benihana14
11-29-2002, 01:24 AM
I'd have to say I agree with each and every one of you on this one....hooray for concurrences! WHEEEEEEEEEEE!

Ben

Kryllith
12-02-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by scabb
Yoghurt, if we all agreed with each other, and everything was good in the world, there'd be nothing interesting in these forums. It would just be endless posts of people agreeing with each other.

Just because people argue in a thread, that's no reason for it to be closed.
Here here! Arguing makes the world go round. :) How interesting would the world be if everybody thought, talked, and acted alike? Besides, if people want to agree, they can simply agree to disagree.

Kryllith