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Belafon
10-17-2002, 04:42 AM
Um, hi. Me newbie with (potentially) silly question about Big Whoop. I think I did the research necessary, but...oh, I'll get to the point.

I'm one of those characters who nearly got nightmares over the way MI2 played with your head at the end, and I wanted to see what people thought/knew about Big Whoop.

Right - Big Whoop is the greatest treasure ever, and it's an entry to another world that Guybrush can escape to never needing to fear LeChuck ever again.

Query: Why is Big Whoop a ticket? More importantly, why on Melee does it appear to have the symbol of the Rebel Alliance on it?! (Guybrush says it looks like an "E", but...uh...)

1. E as in...Elevator? As in is the only way to escape LeChuck is to return to MI1, when he was blasted into lovely fireworky bits?
2. E as in the Star Wars Universe, where LeChuck doesn't exist? I kinda like this option, as it seems Guybrush has already penetrated Indyworld, so Tattooine shouldn't be too far to go...
3. E as in "Entry" to an amusement park ride (fits the ticket appearance), hence the bizarre carnival world that LeChuck has cast a spell for Guybrush to be stuck in?

I heard the CMI explanation that LeChuck built the carnival to recruit more pirates for his undead army, but I really don't like fitting CMI with the rest of the monkey universe...something about its attitude and tone just didn't fit with MI1 and MI2. It's just how (IMHO) the first two had this weird underrunning sinister tone that balanced the humour perfectly, while CMI just had a zombie pirate demanding more slaw.

But Guybrush's past...if LeChuck isn't really his brother, then why the dream sequence on Booty island (the one with the song and dance from Guybrush's parents). How does LeChuck know so much about Guybrush's past?

Ah well. I guess I should reconcile meself to admitting that Guybrush just died after falling into the hole in Dinky Island, and that's that.

MrManager
10-17-2002, 10:44 AM
E-ticket was actually the ticket that would let you ride all the rides in Disney World or something. More info here: http://themeparks.about.com/library/eticket/bleticketmain.htm?PM=ss15_themeparks

ThunderPeel2001
10-18-2002, 09:01 AM
You're ignoring the vital clue: Elaine says "Gee, I hope LeChuck didn't put a CURSE on Guybrush or anything."

And where is she standing when she says that? Why, Dinky Island of course! (Showing that it WASN'T a dream!) So either LeChuck got to Big Whoop and exchanged it for a Voodoo curse (where Guybrush would hallucinate that LeChuck was his brother who would then perpetually torture him for all eternity) or LeChuck was just messing with Guybrush's mind and when GB dissapeared he actually WAS sent into a horrible world of pain and suffering (remember we don't see any more of the rooms BEFORE LeChuck transports GB). Either way it would be GB's dream and LeChuck could know ANYTHING about him since it's all in GB's head!)

Of course there is the fact that SOMI was inspired by the 'Pirates of the Carribean' ride at Disneyland (hence the 'E' ticket and references to Melee Island being 'closed for repairs') so make of it what you will.

The main thing that points to it being a CURSE from LeChuck is the fact we see Elaine safe and well and very much real at the end AND the fact that GB's skeletal parents (from his earlier dream) make another appearance.

Hmmm. I wonder why we've never had an official word as to who's idea it was and why they did it (Tim Shaffer, Dave Grossman, Ron Gilbert? etc)

~ John

Belafon
10-18-2002, 10:03 AM
But does the "whole thing" need to be a dream?

Here's a postulated sequence of events...

1.) Everything proceeds (in reality) up to the point when Guybrush has finished telling his story while in Dinky Island hanging from the rope.
2.) Rope falls, Guybrush dies. He's trapped a la Twin Peaks in a netherworld composed of fractured bits of his subconscious and lost memories of his parents.

And the more I think about it, the more this seems to fit, much as I hate it. Elaine doesn't hear anything more about Guybrush - she only says that it's been a long time and wonders whether LeChuck put "some horrible spell or something".

It could also explain why the carnival appears to be a warped version of Booty Island, plus the truly scary point when you lose control of Guybrush (the very last point of the game, when whatever choice you make, Guybrush just says "Yeah, let's go!")

So Dinky Island could be real. Elaine could be safe. It all doesn't need to be a dream. It could be...very...very...far from it...

Man it's too late at night for me to be writing this sort of thing.

PS But I'm still pretty darn sure that that ticket has something to do with the Rebel Alliance...I just want to believe....

ThunderPeel2001
10-18-2002, 10:54 AM
The 'E' ticket *is* from Disneyland (where the Pirates of the Carribean is) and whenever Elaine says it's CAPITALIZED for EXTRA EMPHASIS. Why'd you think they'd do that? (Anyone got a screenshot?)

What's the difference if it's a voodoo curse or a dream? I mentioned both above and it doesn't really change anything. The voodoo curse bit is what they did in CMI (except they made it a little 'too' real for my liking).

~ John

MrManager
10-18-2002, 11:42 AM
Ok, this is how it all went down, more or less.

1) Monkey Island was supposed to be a single game, with the ending of MI2 being the ending of the game. However Ron Gilbert was talked out of using the ending, they had enough material and new ideas to make a second game and yada yada yada, which brings us to:

2) Monkey Island 2 was supposed to be the last game, and they used the ending Gilbert wanted - the dream ending. Sometime during development somebody must have noticed that Monkey Island was popular, and yada yada yada, a third game was loosely planned. This is probably where the Elaine part and Chuckie looking all ghostly come in. To keep a door open. They do the same thing when they kill off characters on soap operas, as the actors have a tendency to come back to the show after a while... But I digress...

3) Ron leaves, the other designers move on to other games. Years pass, and Ackley & Ahern start building a MI3, based on what they want Monkey Island to be, kinda ignoring the original ending, but still manage to stay true to parts of it (mainly the parts concerning keeping the door to a sequel open), and yada yada yada... That's pretty much it.

And yes, the E ticket is related to Disney Land, not Rebel Alliance.

Das Mole
10-18-2002, 07:06 PM
Hi! I'm not new, this is RicardoLuigi..., I forgot my password and the mail password thing isn't working.

Anyway...

Relating to this thread: Is it possible that Guybrush was knocked out earlier, say, when the skeleton parents were doing the dance, and stayed knocked out ever since? Therefore, he was KO'd and dreamt the whole falling off the rope?

ThunderPeel2001
10-18-2002, 08:40 PM
So Guybrush never finished his story to Elaine then? Hmmm. Maybe that would be Ron's sequel! :)

Damned interesting stuff about the original ending for MI, Remio!!! WOW!

~ John

Das Mole
10-19-2002, 09:07 AM
And IF that was his sequel, you'd begin with Guybrush fighting LeChuck(now that would be different) then go through a whole game with little Guybrush, then end up in the last part of CMI, then the rest of the game...you get the picture.