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Darth Groovy
10-20-2002, 03:08 PM
It's the subject of my research paper. It has come along profoundly, yet there is one question that remains to be answered. The Brownback law which has been established by Senator Sam Brownback, will abolish alll future expiriments in regards to human cloning. My resaerch has detremined that this law has been delayed. If anyone has anyting recent, please let me know and give me the link. I will site you as reference in my paper.

Regards,
Groovy

Clemme w/Stick
10-20-2002, 03:22 PM
Stop human cloning!!

I've never heard about that law, but thats prolly because I live in Denmark!!

Stop human cloning!!!

-Clemme

acdcfanbill
10-20-2002, 04:00 PM
cloneing of whole humans should never be even attempted, but i dont see how cloneing of parts would be too detrimental. Only parts like a hear or lungs, or liver or something, never a brain.

Tyrion
10-20-2002, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by acdcfanbill
cloneing of whole humans should never be even attempted, but i dont see how cloneing of parts would be too detrimental. Only parts like a hear or lungs, or liver or something, never a brain.

I heard that they cant do that, they have to clone the whole body or it wont work.

acdcfanbill
10-20-2002, 04:26 PM
Well, as of right now i doubt they can, do they even know if they *can* clone human? they think they can, but who knows...

The Seeker
10-20-2002, 05:56 PM
I read in USA Today a while ago, that I think next month, some doctor is going to make an attempt to clone a human. He is going to an undisclosed location in an undisclosed country with the willing volunteers and is gonna go through with it.

The volunteers are a couple who can't concieve children, and are completely willing participants. The plan is for them to clone the female, and have it develope inside her. If all goes well, then the child will be born normally and be identical to her.

acdcfanbill
10-20-2002, 06:04 PM
well, hopefully it goes well then... :rollseyes: But knowing people, some moron will probably take pot shots at the family and clone. I wonder what kind of crime is it to kill a clone, if it is born normally, or grown elsewhere...

C'jais
10-20-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by acdcfanbill
well, hopefully it goes well then... :rollseyes: But knowing people, some moron will probably take pot shots at the family and clone. I wonder what kind of crime is it to kill a clone, if it is born normally, or grown elsewhere...

What kind of crime is it to kill identical twins? They're the *EXACT* same as clones.

But don't forget that no clone is a precise replica - they're typically 98% identical to the original but never fully.

So, the crime of killing a clone is the same as killing another human.

StormHammer
10-20-2002, 07:10 PM
Yeah, does a clone have rights?

In some ways, I don't think they should ever have gone ahead with this kind of technology. Yes, a lot of people agree that it should be heavily regulated, that you shouldn't be able to do so-and-so and such-and-such...the problem is, there will always be someone, somewhere, who doesn't care about regulations or ethics. Now the technology is here, it will be used, and undoubtedly abused.

Basically, they can ban it in many countries...but some countries won't bother making it law...and some will actively encourage it. Call me cynical, but it's happened with other things in the past.

I'm beginning to wonder if the idea of 'The Clone Wars' was prophetic. Can you imagine what would happen if it got into the hands of terrorists? 100 Bin Ladens to order, sir? Or 1000? Suicide bombers on demand?

After all, there are no those who feel that certain violent and sociopathic tendencies are simply a case of genetic anomalies. Find the right candidate, clone him/her, and you can start building an army of psychopaths. It may sound SF now...but so was the entire notion of cloning 50 years ago.

God, I'm turning into a right cynic. :(

But sometimes certain advances in technology make me sick.

Darth Groovy
10-21-2002, 12:17 AM
So basically nobody knows if the law has been passed or not? I been racking my brain trying to find out. :( The presentation is due tomorrow.

XERXES
10-21-2002, 12:41 AM
cloning a human is wrong...cloning organs is a great way to improve medical pratices...cept the brain, just like bill said.

Weapon X
10-21-2002, 01:04 AM
cloning a human is not wrong, what if a family's baby died and they really wanted it, it was the only one they could have or somethin like that, shouldn't they have the option to have the scientists make another one? i think they should, it'd be a hefty price but then it could be used for cloning an army (sound familiar?) so instead of sending off our precious sons and daughters we can send off their hard-ass, been fightin since 4yrs old, clones, it'd save a lot of grief and our missions would take half the time they do now, and we wouldn't lose anyone in the process

Rogue15
10-21-2002, 01:11 AM
imagine if the universe was cloned.

Darth Groovy
10-21-2002, 08:09 AM
Reproductive cloning involves cloning a human embryo for birth, and is for the most part illegal. Theraputic Cloning however involves cloning genetic stem cells for tissue repair, and is not illegal, nor perfected. If this Brownback bill is passed, that will be obsolete as well. President Bush is supporting this bill.

STTCT
10-21-2002, 08:44 AM
I did a search on yahoo for it. Looks like it hasn't been passed yet. Hard to do a paper on such a controversial topic and get an unbiased site about it.

BCanr2d2
10-21-2002, 12:04 PM
With the cloning of body parts, that some of you seem in favour of, where do you draw the line of how much to replace?

Would there be people so immoral that would clone a new body to go with the old head? Giving them relative immortal life?

JandoFett1842
10-21-2002, 01:13 PM
Cloning Humans brings up deep thological questions, like does the clone have any rights or is it just property? does the clone have a soul? ect. I think that cloning would put many workers out of buissnes and should never be done. We would start treating clones like property and then we would basicly have slaves again

C'jais
10-21-2002, 05:24 PM
I think you all need to take a step back from those dystopian fantasies....



...and consider how much of what you speak of will actually become reality....


Do identical twins (clones) have a soul? Should we treat the one born latest as property?

I can, however, see where you're going, and it might be real some day, but then again, by that time there'll be tons of other stuff much more gruesome going on, with cloning being the lesser evil at that time.

Pvt_Dancer
10-21-2002, 06:02 PM
what if a family's baby died and they really wanted it, it was the only one they could have or somethin like that, shouldn't they have the option to have the scientists make another one?

No. That is an abominable thought!!! First of all, there is NO way that you can try to replace a child that you've lost. No matter how close to that original baby that clone is... its NOT the same child. Its like buying a new puppy after your old lab "Scotty" dies and naming the new one "ScottyII" :mad:
Second, the world is so crowded as it is... we don't need a way to last forever or increase the population rate. We die for a reason... you may not have come to grips with it yet but accept it. You start screwing around with obliterating death and horrible things will happen.
Thirdly, the cells of the clone retain the age of its cell donor. In example, if a mother wanted to clone herself at age thirty-five, the new born baby would have thirty-five year old cells. Thats no good.

I'm already of the opinion that people shouldn't be allowed to artificially fertilize themselves. If you can't have children then its for a reason. The ecosystem has to maintain some balance and if we have unchecked populace growth things will get nasty. Besides, there are tons of little babies that are waiting to be adopted who would turn out to be perfect children to those who can't have any.

I do, however, have no problem with cloning organs. I don't believe they do have to clone the whole body. They have grown human tissue (ears) on rats before and I believe in sterile containers. If you need a new lung and they can grow one from your own cells and dramatically decrease the chance of rejection... that would be great. I have no problem with that.

Cloning a human (or anything really) right now would be very risky. As it is, our knowledge of how things work with genetic code and its relationship to cell growth is not advanced enough to be very successful. Most attempts at cloning fail and produce a massively deformed product. It took a lot of failures to make one "Dolly."

Phew... what a ramble...

TheWhiteRaider
10-21-2002, 06:03 PM
But there are dangers to cloning. You will not be able to rid a dictator. One could rule forever. This is something that should not done. What have been killed should be left dead. It is a leveled playing field. What can be done for good can be done for evil in most cases.

TheWhiteRaider
10-21-2002, 06:09 PM
A case that good thing are used for evil is like marxism. I was made for good, but only death and destruction came from it.

Darth Groovy
10-21-2002, 08:32 PM
Ok first of all, The Brownback bill has not been passed, it's in limbo so to speak.

Second of all STTCT, I agree, it's controversial and I will get pelted with questions and concerns right and left once I finished my presentation. President Bush is in favor of this bill, and if it is passed, research will no longer be legal. You better believe I am including that. When I first got into this thing I was so scared from the controversy I was going to ask for a different subject. Now I am simply just too involved with it to give it up. This subject is something I spend about 75% of my day researching and rationalizing the necessity of such a law to be passed, vs the necessity of the research and the statistics simply call for this research to continue. I'm going to get chewed up for this, but I have researched this very carefully.

Third I want to post these to clear up some confusion. Human reproductive cloning is not pysically possible yet, because it has not been tested in humans. Dolly is the closest example. An exact human duplicate is not possible because of the genes from the surrogate mother, plus you are resetting a biological clock that started centuries ago, but that is another chapter.

The Dolly Method, reproductive cloning. Not legal, and I do not support it.:

http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~jones/tmp352/projects98/group1/humanclone.gif

Theraputic Cloning is legal as of now. It is impossible to overlook the advantages:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0008B8F9-AC62-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21

If the Brownback bill is passed, research will no longer continue and all possible advantages will be lost forever. :(

TheWhiteRaider
10-21-2002, 08:51 PM
And what about the dangers?

Not just that clones have tons of defects.

Darth Groovy
10-21-2002, 08:57 PM
I've included all the known dangers, like for example the fertility drugs that the egg doners use to produce several eggs at once have serious side affects. The operation itself can cause severe bleeding, + the anesthesia side affects in addition to cancer and kidney failure. Also in the first attempt the ebryo only divided 6 times, so the process still needs work. Part of the main concern lies within the dangers to the donors of the eggs themselves. I still think further research needs to be conducted on this matter. There is just too much at stake here.

TheWhiteRaider
10-21-2002, 09:09 PM
Well they were not the danger I was talking about. I am saying what about if it was used for evil. What someone they killed would leaders and made a replacement? What if they clone a army that is loyal with no feelings, no will, no nothing. What about that? You know there are people that would do that. One person with the right stuff could make a army. And if he needs more people I am sure offering then a place of power will work.