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View Full Version : Harsly Denoucing and Criticizing Raven... REVISITED!


Datheus
10-23-2002, 03:51 AM
Now.. I have seen posts on the stupidity of Raven for using the Quake3 engine... but why arn't more CVars READ ONLY? :mad:

The amount of things that can be changed from server to server cause for just about every goddamn server to feel different to me. I don't care what you have to say about this. The bottom line is, if something feels different from one game to the next, they did a bad job making the game. It's such a pain to try and play on a server with the following settings:

g_saberdamagescale 2
g_sabertracefirst 0
g_alwaysboxtrace 0
g_saberghoul2collision 0

And then to go play on a server with

g_saberdamagescale 1
g_sabertracefirst 1
g_alwaysboxtrace 0
g_saberghoul2collision 0

Just that makes it feel like a whole different game. You can just forget about trying to go between Ghoul2 and no Ghoul2. That's just a NIGHTMARE. It'd be a whole lot easier to learn and improve at this game if Raven hadn't made it so damn customizable. Granted, being able to tweak to your preference is nice... but not when it's for MP. You can't even view those three critical cvars in the server info box, as if I'd actually want

I don't want to spend my afternoon looking for the three goddamn servers with my settings. I want to play on ALL of the servers when my oh so whimsical souls commands me to do so. I want to be able to go from Bob's server to Jimbo's server and I want to be playing the same game on both of them. I'm not here to argue whether the blocking should be high or low or whether the damage should be high or low, but rather that these cvars shouldn't even be editable. I'm sick of trying to do guesswork on what the frigging settings are and trying to base a strategy around that, and meanwhile my ass is getting handed to me in a paper bag.

What the hell was wrong with Raven? Were they high? Or is this some joke? Are they laughing at us at this very moment?

They didn't even write their own game engine. So you've got alot of that crap out of the way. Where the hell did all the time and money go? I repeat, they didn't even write their own engine! This game is like that mid-term paper you put off until the night before it was due.

My conspiracy theory is this:

Raven, making both Soldier of Fortune 2 and Jedi Knight 2, two major titles, at the same time had a dilema: Too much to do in too little time. So, knowing that SOF2 was solely attatched to their name and that JK2 was attached not only to them but also LucasArts, they made a choice. Their true effort goes into SOF2, while they takes a steaming **** on JK2, in hopes that LucasArts would take some of the blame.

Now, this isn't an attack on, what I assume are, the goodwilled developers at Raven... These flunkies in ANY industry tend to be innocent. I'm pissed at the powers that be. They bit off more than they could chew leaving them with a choice. Screw up SOF2 and have people know Raven dropped the ball, or screw up JK2, the game that has "LucasArts" written ALL over it, and have people think LucasArts dropped the ball.

Don't mind the man behind the curtain.

The Truthful Liar
10-23-2002, 03:53 AM
I kind of stopped reading at the point of suggesting that Raven was high or not...

:violin:

SPY_jmr1
10-23-2002, 03:57 AM
ya know.....

i'm tempted....


you might have set the record....




just think of it.



I mean, common.


a thread MOVED FROM the swamp?




you gotta be kidding!:D

Datheus
10-23-2002, 04:00 AM
No one even reads the feedback forums... compare the number of posts there to the numbers of posts here.

If I wanted to state my grevances without a response... I'd go outside at yell at the sky in an attempt to communicate with a god

BCanr2d2
10-23-2002, 07:47 AM
Now, where did this game engine come from, for both games?!

Isn't it a Quake 3 game engine, so why are you bagging Raven, with id software is really to blame?

PhantomHelix
10-23-2002, 07:59 AM
yeah, its annoyin sometimes.....

does any1 kno if Raven will ever release the SP source codes for JKII?

StormHammer
10-23-2002, 03:21 PM
Raven don't set out to make bad games, or games with issues or features that are going to be construed as bad. That whole notion is plain silly.

I think the only problem with JO was the relatively short development time - for which they were probably not entirely responsible, as Lucasarts contracted them to make the game, so Lucasarts called most of the shots.

Considering the short development cycle, I think Raven managed to pull off an exemplary job, with both great SP and MP play. Yes, there were bugs and other issues, which was unfortunate, and which may have been ironed out during a longer testing phase. However, they did listen to the gaming community, and a lot of the community were asking for lots of options and flexibility in terms of gameplay.

I feel sorry for Raven...and a lot of other game developers. They're damned if they do something, and damned if they don't. Basically, they can't please everyone, nor should they try. Well, unfortunately, they did try to please everyone by listening to lots of comments, and releasing lots of patches that fundamentally changed the way the game was played online...and now you have a divided community.

Oh...and Raven have a long track-record of using Id's game engines, which they modify to suit their needs. So it should be no surprise they didn't come up with their own game engine - regardless of the fact that it would have doubled or tripled the development time for the game - which means you wouldn't be playing it at all right now. :rolleyes:

As far as SOF2 goes...well, sorry Raven, but I'm not finding it as enjoyable as JO. It's a good game (getting better the further I get into it), but again there are some things that I find a bit annoying - like alarms going off the instant you're spotted, bodies curling up and hanging in mid-air - and when leaning around corners or objects and fire your gun, it often hits the object, in spite of the fact the crosshair is well-clear and pointing at your intended target. Apart from those issues, you get a big thumbs up. ;)

Datheus
10-23-2002, 04:00 PM
I can agree with you on SP... I think Single Player is great. Not a damned thing wrong with it. Most fun I had in a while... My problem is mostly with what seems to be a slightly sloppy job on the Multiplayer...

I guess maybe this is all from my perspective... Playing JO is like all I do. So even the littlest things seem kinda big to me, I guess. Something along those lines...