View Full Version : More Or Less Poetry

Darth Eggplant
11-02-2002, 09:35 PM
*this thread was originally called
More Or Less Poetry, but I changed it
to Dead Poets Society.
*much more GF-esque;
plus it was a great movie.*

The Welshwoman wrote

It's people like you who make me want to commit sepuku...sniff, sob, sniff...
It's just that..man, why are you so darned good?? You write so well and so MUCH, makes me realise how bland my poetry is(and how seldom inspiration comes to me)
oh, oh, you think you'd be willing to give poetry classes??

Lesson ONE: BAD Spelling.
If your spelling is bad
then there is hope for you yet.
Lesson one is about being a bad speller.
BAD meaning Buy Another Dictionary.

If you own a pocket dictionary
with 1,000 words in it, upgrade it
to a dictionary with 5,000 words.
And if you own a dictionary with
5,000 words in it, upgrade to one
with 25,000 words in it.
And if you own a dictionary with
25,000 words in it, upgrade to one
with 125,000 words and a Thesaurus.

*care, cleaning, grooming & feeding
of your Thesaurus will be covered
in future lessons.*

now for lesson one itself.
If you do not know what a word means
or how to spell it, then look it up.
and bookmark that page and go back
to that page, until you can spell it.
also most words have multiple meanings
attached to them. try learning the other
meanings as well.

(AND) here's the fun part
once you look up your word;
look up two other words,
words you were not even looking for.
Think of two other letters,
and flip the book and find a word
you do know the meaning of
and then scan above or below that word
until you find a new word you have
never heard or have used before.
and learn the meaning of that word too.

for advanced pupils, keep your dictionary
next to your TV or computer, and while
the commercials come on, or while you
wait for large files to download, look
up words to pass the time.
the more words you have or know
at your disposal will help you
become a more descriptive poet.
Remember the great sceen in the movie
"Throw Momma From The Train"
Billy Crystal and Danny Devito
search for a descriptive word
to describe the night, and they use
hot, humid, sticky...
and then Momma mumbles "sultry"

Now to all the other poets out there
in the Blue Casket, please feel free
to step up to the mike and lay a lesson
on us any time you like. also 2 of my
poetry threads have dissapeared
due to an increase in thread traffic
in this portion of the GFN forums.
I therefore sugguest
we all start collectively posting
poems here in order to insure
their posterity. so if you value
your contributions,
and want others to read them,
cut and paste
cut and paste.

The Welshwoman
11-08-2002, 12:41 PM
Sorry for the late reply, oh great purple one, but I'd forgotten my password and couldn't log-in to the forums, heh heh :animelol:

Well, about lesson one, I've been doing the 'randomly looking up some new word' part for a long time, heh heh. Now if only I had a good memory to keep all those words in mind! I don't really worry about the vocabulary much actually, since I've got my broh who happens to be a walking, talking dictionary (encyclopedia, to be precise).
The problem with my poems is that I think they sound too...unprofessional? Immature?...er, well, when you read 'em you know that the writer's someone who tries too hard and,...do you get what I'm trying to say? 'cause I'm having trouble explaining it myself!
Secondly, earlier, I could write a short poem about almost anything I wanted, any time I wanted. Now I get a good poem about..once in two months or something.

Still, if you'd like to review a poem of mine, here's one I wrote on a character of mine:
I stand before the mirror
But don't know who I see
I don't know this person
Who stands in front of me
So many know my name
No one knows the true me
They look into my eyes
But don't see what I see
Someone with many faces
But which one is real?
What is in the smile of mine
That I use as a seal
To hide my true emotion
To hide my misery
And travel on my own
Towards my destiny

Well, adios fer now.

Darth Eggplant
11-08-2002, 01:44 PM
*an aside to the Welshwoman,
will speak with you concerning your poem
and poetry; mommentarily after lessons
2 and 3. lesson 3 will deal with your
concerns about your poetic endeavors.*

Darth Eggplant
11-08-2002, 01:47 PM

What a treasure you are
they make references to you in books,
you are in the Dictionary for sure;
a thing most extra-ordinary
living 350 Million years ago
Speckled with five horns and no ears.
What would the Golden Realm
of the Terrible Lizards
have been like without you?
Rex and his evil friends might have won.
But you saved the day,
you paved the way
Mankind should thank you;
for you are my favourite
Dinosaur of all time
no matter what
the Greeks say.

*the dictionary however has this to say:*

plural, the-sau-ri,
the-sau-rus-es noun;
a useful literary collection
or selection, especially a book,
of synonyms and antonyms.

*see lesson one for meaning of
words synonyms & antonyms
if you do not know what they mean.*

Quote from the Welshwoman's last post:

"The problem with my poems
is that I think they sound too...
unprofessional? Immature?...
er, well, when you read 'em
you know that the writer's someone
who tries too hard and,...
do you get what I'm trying to say?
'cause I'm having trouble
explaining it myself!
Secondly, earlier,
I could write a short poem
about almost anything I wanted,
any time I wanted.
Now I get a good poem about..
once in two months or something."

the word unprofessional
is an adjective used by
the welshwoman to describe
in this case her poetry.
it means not professional,
not in accordance with
professional etiquettte.

interestingly enough the word
in the dictionary above unprofessional
is 'unprintable' and the word below
the word unprofessional is

because by the sounds of it welshwoman
seems unsure and uncertain of her work
and words. unprintable means not suitable
for printing, and unqualified means,
lacking the necessary qualifications,
or in some cases convictions.
(but these topics are for future lessons)

knowing words, (lesson one)
and what they mean is important
however knowing alternate words
is also very important because
the choice of the words that you
choose to use can make all the difference
in your poetry's printability
and qualification.

it gives you a greater range of
possibilities and a much larger
arsenal of weapons, with which
to hit your target with.

once your voccabulary, knowledge
and familiarity with words increases,
you will find it much easier to express
yourself and what you are feeling.
and this can be achieved by using,
knowing and loving to learn your
dictionary and thesaurus.
and you do not have to absolutely
know the words when writing
take your time, look up words,
draft and re-draft
even sit on them and stew a bit,
until you are ready.

now today's lesson should be
using a thesaurus to look up
other ways you can say immature.
(or other ways you can describe)
the welshwoman's sentiments towards
her poetry. forum members can chime in,
but (play nice) it might be best
for the welshwoman to go it alone.
tell me all about your
immature writing.

so hit the thesaurus and post for me
welshy woman, some interesting adjectives
describing why you think your poems...

Darth Eggplant
11-11-2002, 04:25 PM
Dr Suess
the modern Poet
rhymed so well
and we all know it,

but unless you're writing jingles
for advertisements like:
"keep your eyes on your fries"

or unless your belting out
bewitching blues or swanky jazz
and have a full piece skeleton band
complete with keyboard and alto sax

or unless you have a wild immagination
or have taken copious amounts of acid

perhaps you should not
do the Rhyme
if you can't do the Thyme
okay Basil?

the Welshwoman's poem:

I stand before the mirror
But don't know who I see
I don't know this person
Who stands in front of me
So many know my name
No one knows the true me
They look into my eyes
But don't see what I see
Someone with many faces
But which one is real?
What is in the smile of mine
That I use as a seal
To hide my true emotion
To hide my misery
And travel on my own
Towards my destiny

much of the Welshwoman's poem
is good, I like these lines:

'Someone with many faces
But which one is real?'

this is a thought provoking statement
with serious self reflection involved,
however these two lines are surrounded
by a very basic A-B-A-B rhyming scheme.
(not that there is anything wrong
with rhyming.) however the Welshowoman
states that she feels her work to be
immature and most of this comes from
the deceptive childlike rhyming utilized
in her poem.

I stand before the mirror (A)
But don't know who I see (B)
I don't know this person (C)
Who stands in front of me (B)
So many know my name (D)
No one knows the true me (B)
They look into my eyes (E)
But don't see what I see (B)

as you can see her poem is a prose
trying to be a prose but tripping
over it's own rhyme and reason.

'Someone with many faces (F)
But which one is real?' (G)

What is in the smile of mine (H)
That I use as a seal (G)
To hide my true emotion (I)
To hide my misery (J)
And travel on my own (K)
Towards my destiny (J)

in the last half of her poem
again it mainly takes the stance
of being prose poetry, but again it
reverts into rhyming poetry with
two of the last three lines.

The most important thing about
Green Eggs and Ham is do you personally
like them Sam I AM?

the Welshwoman also stated that:

do you get what I'm trying to say?
'cause I'm having trouble
explaining it myself!'

this translates simply:
"say what you mean,
and mean what you say."

KNOW your dictionary and use it.
Increase your working Voccabulary.
Take your Thesaurus for a walk.
decide a head of time if you want
"FRIES with that?"

the choice of words you use,
and the method you employ to
frame your train of thought,
really does make all the difference.

The Welshwoman
11-13-2002, 12:41 AM
Actually, I can't really write poems that don't rhyme, if that is what you are suggesting I do.
Some times when I'm writing a poem, I have a whole plan of what to write in my head, but I have to sit down and think about how to put that in 'poetic' words to make it fit into the poem. I guess that's where my poetry fails to sound interesting. Other times, the sentences just come to me, in the form of complete stanzas. All I have to do is write them down. No hard work from my part! Those poems of mine I actually like. This one was among those poems (I think.. Can't remember) So..I don't think I quite get what you're telling me, that my rhyming should follow a certain pattern the way it was in the first half of my poem? Or that it shouldn't stick to a certain pattern as it did in the first half of the poem?

Oh yeah, and my reply to lesson 2: scratch out the word 'unprofessional', how's "not up to the standard"?

Darth Eggplant
11-13-2002, 01:02 PM
form over substance,
this is substance abuse;
(there is the other kind
but since this is a Lucas forum
we will not delve to deeply into it.)

form is the format of your writing

substance is what is in it

what I was getting at
in the last lesson,
and what I meant by
say what you mean
and mean what you say

comes down to the format you chose
and use to express your poetry.

for example a friend graduated
from university with a degree
and a major in English Litterature
and he told me, that there was
a difference between a sonnet
and a Shakespearian sonnet.

now I did not know that,
and I asked him;
"is there any other kind of sonnet
other than a Shakespearian one?"

and apparently the answer is yes.

when you get totally academic
writing becomes very lifeless;
it becomes all the rules of
how a stanza, or how a Haiku,
or how a sonnet get created.
knowing the rules
and living by them
are two seperate matters.
once you know how to cook
and follow a receipt,
one then learns how to tweak
and bend the rules to suit ones
style and flavour of cooking.

for instance I make cookis,
my receipt I followed the first time
to the letter and the cookies tasted
good. BUT as I learnt to follow the
receipt I began experimentation with
them, deviating from the receipt.
the receipt says cook for 8 minutes
well my oven runs hot and I like my
cookies chewie so I only cook them for
5 minutes. the receipt says 2 cups of
water. I use 3 1/2 cups of water.
I also add raisons so the chocolate
ones taste like big glossett raison
cookies, or maccadamian nuts,
or cashews sometimes walnuts.

the point being I do not entirely
follow the academic rules completely.
to me a sonnet is a sonnet,
I am not concerned with how many
lines it has, I am not totally certain
how many lines a sonnet actually has
but if I want to do that 15th to 19th
century old fashion style writing,
I look at an example of several poems
get a feel for the mood the language
etc, and then pen one myself,
and if it is not entirely true to form,
so long as it sounds romantic that is
all that counts.

now I am not the only poet on the GFN
Lateralis posts his poems and merfatcat
has dabbled; and so has Isis (who now
is a musician) they all have different
styles from myself. but the thing is:
you kind of have to choose what you
are writinf about based upon the
substance of your life and experiences
and not upon conventional writing styles.
In the game Grim Fandango, in year two
in The Blue Casket, all the poetry is
beatnik. even Manny and Velasco recite
a poem together and I heard someone call
it crazy biker haiku. BUT all of this
peotry does not neccissarily rhyme.

many will argue that
prose is NOT poetry
and never will be
because it does not rhyme.

that is an argument I do not get at all.
If you believe that poetry must rhyme
that it has to rhyme, and\or if you
feel that you can not write anything
but rhyming poetry. then that is your
opinion and although we may debate it,
it is something you believe in
and only you can believe in yourself,
your words and your work.

there is a time and place for rhyming,
it happens in advertising cute catchy
jingles. it happens in childrens TV shows
and books. it happens in mass produced
Hallmark greeting cards,(oops I let a
bit of my own personal view shine through)
it happens in songs most of which are
meant to be campy. and catchy and make
your bones rattle and your shoulders shake.
the music from the movie
The Nightmare Before Christmas
is an excellent example of this.
lyrics which is poetry set to music
most often can or will have rhyme to it.
but poetry, not all poems rhyme
and not all poets rhyme either.

"O me! O Life!
of the questions of these recurring,
of the endless trains of the faithless,
of cities fill'd with the foolish,
what good amid these,
O me! O Life!
that you are here,
that life exists and identity,
that the powerful play goes on,
and you may contribute a verse."

Walt Witman

"Come my friends,
Tis not too late to seek a newer world,
for my purpose holds
to sail beyond the sunset...
and though
we are not that strength
which in old days
moved earth and heaven;
that which we are,
we are
one equal temper of heroic hearts,
made weak by time and fate,
but strong in will,
to strive, to seek, to find,
and not to yield."


"Here lies my wife,
here let her lie.
Now she's at rest
and so am I."

John Dryden

the last one illustrates rhyme
in poetry; but to make it work
you really have to be quite Pithy
in order to pull it off,
and you have to encapsulate
something so universal
or nearly so, that readers can
identify with the humour and
cleverness immediately.

the substance of your poems
comes from life experince
and life lessons,
something which can not be taught.
all I can say is that before
they ever made the movie
'Dead Poets Society'
or I ever saw and read the book,
I was already a 'Dead Poet'
long before.
Carpe Dieum! seize the day.
you do not have to know the
latin phrase, you have to live it.

in the film 'Risky Business'
Joels friend tells him
"if you can't say **** It!
you can't live that way."

a modern version of Carpe Dieum.

poetry, any poetry that moves
a person comes from the heart
and soul of the poet. It must flow.
you can not in my opinion strive
for dead poet society material
until you stop wondering what word
best rhymes with orange?

not to be modest and yes to sound
a tad bit arogant, you posted a post
in my thread saying wow you write so
well, ...., and you further posted do
you or would you give lessons.
I am willing to talk poems and poetry
but poetry in motion
is something you have to achieve.

If you chose to think you can only
write poems that rhyme,
I am not saying that is a bad thing,
however it will limit your scope
and abilities as a poet.
I wrote Splinters of Surrealism
and Driftwood to encapsulate
a variety of ways to look at life
through different perspectives;
many of the poems echo and mirror
each other but with totally different
takes on life.
True some days are zany and the cartoon
theme to BeetleJuice will flow through
your head. But some days as you sit
on your bedside; running your thumb
along the cord of your alarm clock,
or the stock of you shotgun
the lyrics to The Doors "The End"
will be floating through your brain.
or the Smiths "Please, please, please
let me get what I want, lord knows
it would be the first time."

but all these songs and all these
poets\musicians\writers have found
their voice, and you must do so to.

"if you can not understand
why a big red rubberband
tied around your pretty neck
as you hide your head in the sand
as you rhyme every time you can
about your life and future plans."

Carpe Dieum Welshwoman!
seize the day
be a Dead Poet.
Hallmark already has enough
ghost writers working for them
and so much sugar only leads
to Diabetes anyhow.

The Welshwoman
11-17-2002, 12:39 AM
Wait, did I sound like I don't agree with prose being poetry? Sorry, I didn't mean that at all. I actually have some poems myself that don't rhyme. What I meant to say was that poetry in prose form doesn't usually come to me. I actually find writing poems that rhyme more easy.

<reads DarthEggplants comment about rhyming poems in Childrens TV Shows and Hallmark greeting cards>..THANKYOU!:mad2:

Actually I never saw "Dead Poets' Society" so I don't know what a dead poet is supposed to be!

Darth Eggplant
11-20-2002, 01:21 AM
Lesson Five:
Read some of Lateralis' poetry.

also Lateralis should post a lesson.

and also should try
to rent or watch
Dead Poets Society,
it has Robin Williams in it;
one of his great serious roles.
he was nominated for an oscar for it.

*he should have won it to*

11-20-2002, 05:11 PM
hmmm...a lesson.

very well...apologies if any of this has been covered before.

firstly - rhyme. only when necessary. good poems do not have to rhyme. they have to draw an emotional response from the reader. if the poem has a really happy up beat rhyming scheme ala 4-4 in music, but is downbeat and depressed, the poem doesn't work.

downbeat, sad poems often work well if they don't rhyme. it suggests discontinuation, it suggests harshness and conflict.

Love poetry, it depends. If the love is flowing, if it is intense, the poem perhaps should rhyme, the rhythm of the heart that beats in us all. If there is conflict, it should stutter. If there is resolution there should be a logical and noticable progession.

secondly - words. anger is expressed best in short, sharp poetry. harsh words, broad constantants all add to the effect. contrasting words and half rhyme also help. helplessness is expressed by slow pacing, long words and sentences. energy is expressed by powerful, positive words - and all the literary terms. epic similies are used best to express a really strong feeling or emotion, where as blunt metaphors and similies, taken at face value, are merely tools to poets, a manner of expressing themselves.

next time: Theme, Tools, Timing.

hope this helps.

Darth Eggplant
11-22-2002, 01:21 PM
Lateralis quote:

if the poem has a really
happy up beat rhyming scheme
ala 4-4 in music,
but is downbeat and depressed,
the poem doesn't work.

*the only exception to this rule
would be The Smiths.*;)

good lesson Lateralis,
I hope you will continue.
and now Welshy you are benifiting
from two Dead Poets.

ah, Tall Guy, or other mod,
is it possible to rename a thread
without losing it? this thread
was started as More Or Less Poetry
could it be changed to
Dead Poets Society
(that would be much more GF-esque)

*thank you if you can.*

11-22-2002, 03:59 PM
Part: Two

Subsection A: Theme

...one should only ever write poetry about the things you feel strongest about. trying to write a poem about something about which you're apathetic is extremely hard, and rather pointless. poetry is about two things - message, and style. poets try to deliver a message to their readers, even if the message is only how they feel, it is still a message. secondly they try to do this with a certain amount of style. i could say "i feel sh!t" or i could write a poem about it. from an aesthetic point of view at least, it is better to write a poem.

so..what are suggested topics? as a stupid teen myself, i write about love. when you're my age, it's always real, intense, the highs and the lows. for instance, i "love" a girl, despite the complications that lie in my way. also i really despise forms of injustice in the world, of any kind - so i write about these. lastly, i write about my dreams. often this can link up to the girl(of my dreams) resulting in some very soppy, often good, poetry.

Subsection B: Tools
...the tools open to a poet are numerous. inspiration first and foremost. a poety should be able to find inspiration in the events of every day life, in the world around them. secondly they should have a good command of their language...(when i start posting in french, start to worry :D)and the concepts of grammer, diction, and rhyme. thirdly they should be able to appreciate good poetry. Lastly, and most importantly they should be able to transport their feelings to the page well. Clairty, and brevity of purpose are most important here.

Subsection C: Timing
...by this i mean when to put in your "killer" lines. personally i prefer to finish on my strongest notes, also having one or two mid way through the poem to strenghten it as well.

the poem should have one main idea through each stanza, and one main theme (secondary themes are fine) throughout as well. the reader should be left with your message, as well as at least one line that symbolises, summaries, and personnifies the idea.

in my first post here, under the poem Lateralis, this line was the first sentence.

"This is the night." summarised what the entire poem was about. night is cyclical, it passes, and gives way to the splendour of day. this is what lateralis, both poem and person is about. things change, things pass. but - some things, the important things - stay the same.


Darth Eggplant
12-03-2002, 11:59 AM
Lesson Six: Song-A-Long Cassidy

almost any poem
by Emily Dickenson
can be recited to the tune
'The Yellow Rose of Texas.'