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Jedi_Monk
11-08-2002, 05:22 PM
Do you think that Anakin's escorting of Padme to Naboo and protecting here there was intended to be his final trial?

Let's talk a little bit about what the Trials are. They're the final ordeal a Padawan must go through before becoming a fully indoctrinated member of the Jedi Order. It sounds like they are intended to push a Padawan to the breaking point, present him with a choice between a life as a Jedi and a life outside of the Order. Put the Padawan out on their own and see what they do.

The only Trial we've seen in the movies is Luke's. He had to confront Vader and the Emperor. This was the Trial upon which the entire fate of the universe was to rest. The choices presented to Luke were these: Avoid the confrontation, "run away, far away"; Convert Anakin Skywalker back to the Light Side; Die or turn to the Dark Side. Luke was faced with his greatest fears. Inadequacy, his parentage and the darkness within himself that was revealed in the cave at Dagobah.

But then, like I said, this was the definitive Trial. They couldn't all have been like this.

Just to give an example of a Trial in the EU: Xanatos' Trial in the Jedi Apprentice series. He was charged to go back to his home planet and choose between his father, or the Jedi Order. His father was, as I recall, in the midst of a civil war and a Jedi cannot choose sides. If he chose sides, he would have failed the test and been expelled. He chose sides.

Now let's get back to Anakin. Anakin has been obsessed with Padme for the last ten years. Obi-Wan knows this, "Be mindful of your feelings, Anakin, they betray you. You have made a commitment to the Jedi Order, a commitment not easily broken." We know from Episode I that Anakin is afraid, afraid to lose his mother and his dreams in SW2 are aggravating that fear. Anakin is convinced that they're not dreams at all, but that his mother is in danger. Again, he's afraid to lose her.

So here you have Anakin's the two obstacles Anakin must overcome before becoming a Jedi: His love for Padme and his fear of losing his mother. And in the midst of this turmoil, Mace Windu assigns Anakin on a mission on his own--well, not on his own, he'll be with Padme. This is his first mission on his own, mind you, his first where he is completely unsupervised. Now why would the Masters choose to do this, I ask you, if not to test Anakin?

This, I believe was his Trial: to reject love for duty. Selfishness for solidarity in the Order. To stay where he was ordered to stay, despite his dreams. On both accounts, Anakin failed. Anakin tried to seduce Padme, and ran off to Tatooine at his first possible chance.

But then, you might say, isn't Anakin too young to take the Trials? Obi-Wan was four years older in Episode I, and Yoda refused to allow him to take the Trials. But then, what is the difference here? Anakin Skywalker is the Chosen One. Yoda said that the, "Dark Side clouds everything," at the beginning of the movie. Might this spur the Masters on to accelerating Anakin's training so that he can carry out his destiny?

What do you think? Was the real story behind Episode II Anakin's Trial?

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covenant_bad
11-08-2002, 05:33 PM
That was a really cool read and an interesting theory Monk.
But it is also possible it was the build up to his taking of the trials, perhaps a final test before he must make the most direct desicion on his life ever....

:)

Or you could be right and it was his trial but why after when the Jedi escape (only seen it 2 times) at the end of the film do they not mention this, maybe you have picked up on a point which is to be concluded in the next episode.

:)

Purple_Tentacle
11-08-2002, 07:13 PM
i think you are right in the sence that it was a test, but i don't think it was his 'final' test or 'trial' if you will. because yoda, obi-wan, and mace windu were talking about his "arrogance" and disobedience. i dont think that they would send him on such a trial after this conversation.

Count Dooku 2
11-09-2002, 07:51 AM
I agree with you, Jedi_Monk, and I think that the events of "Attack of the Clones" were in some way linked with Anakin's trails. After all, he was telling Padme that he was ready for them, so that could well have been it. However: do you think Padme was in on it? Did Obi-Wan tell her "This mission is Anakin's trail, watch out for him."?

Also, I think Anakin will be a full-blown Jedi Knight in Episode III. If he is still a Padawan, I think he would not be in the position to effect the galaxy so much. That means that either Anakin's trial was in AOTC or they will take place between now and Episode III.

JediNyt
11-09-2002, 02:11 PM
If the mission in AOTC was Anakins trial, which he didnt do correctly, then why would he still be in the order? If what you said about Padawans must choose between being a Jedi or following their own accord then why would they let him back in? This may just be EU stuff. It would make sense to give a Padawan all the chances they need. If they left the order with the powers they have they could become dangerous.

Either side of the discussion seems plausible to me. Its good thinking. Obi in ep1 was about ready for his trial but didnt take the one the council had in mind. He fought and killed a Sith Lord, which obviously the council decided was good enough for a trial so they made him a Jedi Knight. If he can kill a Sith Lord then hes good enough to be a Knight. Screw the trial. That was his trial.

But Anakin is not a Jedi yet. Padawans are always getting tested my their masters. Each new test is more difficult. Some of them involve being alone. The trial is the final test. He will have a successful trial either before or during ep3. From what we know, thats probably what will happen.

Taos
11-09-2002, 06:15 PM
Where's that damn applause smilie @ anyways????

That is great Jedi Monk!! ;)


I totally agree with you, I think they were his trials and he failed miserably! Whether or not they were his final ones..........I'm not sure about that.

Purple Tetancle brings up a good point about the arrogance of Anakin......because that had not been addressed, I believe that the mission with Padme was not his final trial. He still had more stuff to work on.

peter james
11-10-2002, 08:13 AM
you should not have come back old man...

before i was but the learner - now i am the master !

Count Dooku 2
11-10-2002, 08:22 AM
Goot point, Peter James!

According to Darth Vader, when he left Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Jedi Order he was still the learner, hence the quote from Peter James. This would mean making him a Jedi Knight in Episode III would condradict with Episode IV, and I'm sure George Lucas would not want to do that!

Let me re-phrase what I said earlier: Anakin won't become a full Jedi Knight in Episode III, he will be a Padawan when he leaves and becomes Vader.

ET Warrior
11-10-2002, 01:12 PM
I agree with Jedi Monk......that was intended to be his last trial, I dont think they'll know that he broke his oath to the jedi and married padme for awhile, but when they do i think he will be expelled, and THAT will drive him completely to the darkside.

peter james
11-10-2002, 06:11 PM
actually... :)

GL condradicts himself in the original trilogi.

take my first quote :

"you should not have come back old man...
before i was but the learner - now i am the master"

that indicates what count dooku 2 is saying - but then there is:

"why wish you become jedi ? - mostly because of my father i guess. - ahhh powerfull jedi was he... powerfull jedi..."

.......

so ??

according to the first quote, he is not made a jedi - and according to the secound quote, he is...

BUT... :) :)

he most have been a jedi because of the most exiting and important moment of ep 6 is:

"no... you've failed your highness - i will not be turned - i am a jedi... like my father before me..."

ergo... ?

Purple_Tentacle
11-10-2002, 09:15 PM
anakin is a Jedi...a Jedi Padawan, that is still a Jedi.

he is NOT a Jedi Knight.

so, he WAS a powerful Jedi, and he WAS a learner.

i am a jedi, like my father before me
luke is a jedi , not a sith...thats what he is saying. he isnt saying that his father had ever attained the rank of Jedi Knight.

even though Luke DID just become a Jedi Knight.

JediNyt
11-10-2002, 09:35 PM
You always learn in your life. In ep3 Anakin may become a Jedi Knight. But hes is still learning. Obi is a Master and is higher than Ani who may become a Knight. Qui-Gon was a Master and he refered to Yoda as "my master". Its so easy to figure out. George has never slipped up in SW. Fact.

Purple_Tentacle
11-10-2002, 09:46 PM
good point. i agree

ET Warrior
11-11-2002, 12:27 AM
George has never slipped up in SW. Fact.

Maybe not quiteso much a fact.....please explain why Han Solo says that the Falcon completed the kessel run in less than 12 parsecs, clearly saying that parsecs are a unit of time yet in AotC max tells obiwan that kamino is about 12 parsecs outside the rishi maze....a unit of distance....and no EU-splanations.

Xyphox
11-11-2002, 12:34 AM
ET Warrior is right. I think George messed up on the parsecs thing, because in real life a parsec is a measure of distance, not time.

JediNyt
11-11-2002, 01:02 AM
Check the Ask the Lucasfilm Jedi Council archives for Jocasta Nu on SW.com and youll find the answer.:cool:

Jedi_Monk
11-12-2002, 01:05 AM
Actually, there is an "EU-splanation" (ooh... I like that ;) ). The Kessel Run is dotted with black holes, which means that you must make numerous hyperspace jumps to safely navigate them all, and the more times you have to change course the more distance you travel. According to the EU (I don't know where, since I've never read whatever book it's in) Han Solo found a much more direct way through the Kessel Run, using the Falcon's speed to skip out of gravity fields that would have pulled slower ships in (or so that's how I understand it). Therefore, he cut a lot of distance off of the Kessel Run.

That's what the EU says. What I think really happened is that Lucas didn't know what a parsec was, thought it was a unit of time (which sure is what it sounds like) rather than a unit of distance. When he descovered his mistake, he fixed it in the prequels... and maybe he'll corner Harrison Ford on the set of Indiana Jones IV and have him rerecord the line and have his ILM geniuses change Han's lip-sync in ANH and everything'll be well squared (I'm interested in seeing who'd actually like to see that, BTW). But bar that, he's never contradicted anything that has to do with the story of the movies.

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