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editormg
11-08-2002, 09:03 PM
I hope nobody's workin on this LOL. I got the map imported and fixed the walls that spontaneously appeared. Had to manually select 1500 brushes and copy into a new instance of radiant but it worked. I'm caulking and rexturing now. Of course I can't do this without putting a big monument to Ped Head in the level and making it more visually pleasing. Comments? Flames? Suggestions?

Redvan
11-08-2002, 09:14 PM
where can I see pics of this level?

Emon
11-08-2002, 09:29 PM
1. Importing the level without the author's consent is stealing, and illegal.

2. Even if you had permission to do so, I have no idea why you would. JHS was a pathetic level to begin with, most noticably in architectural aspects. PedHead made the level when he was a novice at level editing.

3. Importing levels with that plugin results in horribly structured levels, however not the fault of the author of the plugin. The math you'd need to do to correctly and cleanly import a sector based level to brushes is just insane.

editormg
11-08-2002, 10:24 PM
ok emon lol


#1 Tried getting ahold of ped head at his old email(jk1) If ya know of his current one let me know. I'd really like his blessings on this. I thought about this for awhile b/c I don't really wanna be accused of stealing someone's work. I have no intention of claiming any aspect of layout and architecture, I wish to give Ped all the credit for that.

#2 Yes architechture leaves a lot to be desired. I'm workin on that. I intend to make the main building free standing, with the overall layout intact, but perhaps add more windows and rooms on a second and third level. (so you can in effect run in a circle around it on the outside)
My goal is to rework the level to an eye pleasing state and hold the playability of it(which was Ped Head's overall accompishment with JHS) Traps, weapon placement and all. Maybe some new stuff.

#3 yeah the droid plugin has probs(surely could be fixed by someone with time to code) but I got past em. Most of the time it works though unless it sticks walls in the wrong place. the culprit was the freggin soda machine.(split brushes itty bitty)

#4 Playability. wasn't in original post but I feel this deals with the subject. JHS was the most succesful level in JK1. It's predeccessor was Empire NightClub. The reason they were played so much is the level of multiplayer interaction and pickup placement. Why not introduce this type of playability back into the current game? As long as the levels undergo a heavy rework they should be fine. It doesn't HAVE to be so taboo like everyone thinks.

I know what your thinking now, but yes I do have other projects. I'm working on an Indiana Jones duel level based on the well of souls. I'll post pics on both levels when I get a chance.

editormg
11-08-2002, 10:47 PM
Here's the pics. WOS is almost done. I'm down to lighting and texturing.


http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/lst?.dir=/Levels&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

Redvan
11-08-2002, 11:27 PM
not too bad, but then, I've never played it lol

Eldritch
11-08-2002, 11:37 PM
The textures seem to repeat an awful lot. Try breaking it up with some trim and some neat architecture so it doesn't seem so... unprofessional looking. Take advantage of the difference between the JK2 editor and the old one for JK1.

editormg
11-08-2002, 11:48 PM
I am right now I'm killing Z-fighting

Emon
11-09-2002, 11:22 AM
It seems all the truely experianced JK editors are the only ones who realize that levels like JHS, Empire Nightclub, etc, totally suck.

editormg
11-09-2002, 01:50 PM
It seems all the truely experianced JK editors are the only ones who realize that levels like JHS, Empire Nightclub, etc, totally suck.

See that's where you're mistake is. You're thinking of what the "elitist editors" want(or think)and not the people who actually play the levels and the game.

Buh bye!

editormg
11-09-2002, 05:20 PM
I got the main building free-standing. Elevators and doors are in place. Some need tweaking. Got a little bit of sparklies, but thats no prob really. I just compiled and ran around the whole building in a circle.

Here's new shots of the roof redone and the backside of the school. This is just rough new architecture right now so no trims and stuff yet.

New Roof:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/vwp?.dir=/Levels&.src=gr&.dnm=shot014.jpg.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/lst%3f%26.dir=/Levels%26.src=gr%26.view=t

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/vwp?.dir=/Levels&.src=gr&.dnm=shot015.jpg.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/lst%3f%26.dir=/Levels%26.src=gr%26.view=t

Wudan
11-09-2002, 05:31 PM
No, no no.

Emon is right. I never played the original, and, unless you can interest me with some interesting shots, I don't think this one will see my harddrive.

Read a tutorial on ... something. A big big room full of little crates, lit properly has 4 or 5 things going for it than this boxy, ill-named map.

Please, please, start making this interesting, I'm not trying to flame this map, but it needs some very very serious help.

editormg
11-09-2002, 06:43 PM
I'm gonna give you some interesting stuff. I was just posting progress. I not to the point to start adding functionality and extra architecture yet.

But since you brought it up what do you want to see in a map as far as usuable interactive items and traps?

editormg
11-09-2002, 09:30 PM
Got bored this afternoon and worked on the front a bit here's another shot. to the right is a glass-encased elevator, to the left is a glass balcony overlooking the frontside. Textures are temporary, especially on the columns. And yeah I'll be putting in beams so glass doesn't look like it's "floating". I added a total of 5 rooms to the overall layout. Havn't messed with the east wing yet.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/vwp?.dir=/Levels&.src=gr&.dnm=shot017.jpg.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/lst%3f%26.dir=/Levels%26.src=gr%26.view=t

Darth_Kitty
11-10-2002, 02:34 AM
JHS Was an awsome map! The level looks farily close, just crl+s to resize the textures. Keep it up.

editormg
11-10-2002, 04:01 AM
someone who's on my side! encouraging!

The Truthful Liar
11-10-2002, 09:33 AM
I'm not trying to put your map down or anything, however due to the simplicity of the original map it could be made from scratch in GTK without the need of an importer under the amount of time as it would trying to fix all the brush overlapping and other numerous errors that appear when importing a map from Jk1.

If you plan to continue with this level I highly suggest that you take your career out of Jk2 mapping since, as I'm aware that this is your first map and having no tact whatsoever by copying someone's work I don't see a future with anything else.

Kstar__2
11-10-2002, 09:38 AM
i loved JHS for jk1, and i have a couple of tips for ya: you sohuld change the textures a bit: on the outside and stuff, they are suposed to look more grayish;)

editormg
11-10-2002, 12:47 PM
look at my original post. this isn't my first map. I'm finshing up an Indiana Jones based duel map. Well Of Souls. Pics are posted on that one. On the right u see the Ark of the Covenant. In front you'll see statues(I'm not quite satisfied with their heads) I was debating whether to put a hole to an outside room/skybox and stick that nazi airplane in the level and use func rotating for the props(put a damage key on it to kill player if touched?) Most of the brush problems are fixed for JHS and I'm adding new architecture now. But thanks for the input.

editormg
11-10-2002, 12:49 PM
And I don't intend on releasin JHS as "my first map" lol do you think I'm nutz?

DeTRiTiC-iQ
11-10-2002, 01:40 PM
JHS wasn't an awesome map...

Ask any of the JK1 players as opposed to people who merely played the game, you'll discover that Canyon Oasis, Nar Loading Terminal and Battleground Jedi were never really surpassed in terms of gameplay.

When I edited JK1, I wasted almost two years trying to make maps like JHS, then I realized that what JK1 really needed was more maps with actual design.

Anyway, in JK1, for pure spork/other-mod fun nothing beat Jawa Dwelling SE.

Emon
11-10-2002, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by editormg
See that's where you're mistake is. You're thinking of what the "elitist editors" want(or think)and not the people who actually play the levels and the game.

Uh, all the JK editors I know DO play the game. The reason I say experianced editors realize it suck is because having experiance in level editing gives a person more knowledge about proper flow and gameplay of a level. One of the worst things to have in a DM level is congestion, and JHS has it written all over. Take the main hall for example, the part past the elevator, towards the gym. There is only ONE way in and out of each area, and it sucks like that. If you're over there and someone is behind that extremely cheesy conc cannon secret, there's almost no way you can get out alive.

You don't see that kind of congestion in DM levels of even decent retail games. There should always be at least two ways in/out of each large area, there should never be big sections or hallways with only one exit. All good JK levels had this. The originals like CO, BGJ, and the Nar Terminal level all had at least two paths to get around. User made maps like Morpheus had even more than that.

I agree with DeT in that the original levels are classic and are very good, but I think a lot of user made ones are much better. Morpheus, Can-yun-o-ace-is? (I don't care what you say DeT, your version is better than the original! ;)), some of the MLP levels, etc.

Darth_Kitty
11-10-2002, 08:41 PM
JHS....Your still the one! THat makes me smile!LOL

editormg
11-10-2002, 09:41 PM
"One of the worst things to have in a DM level is congestion, and JHS has it written all over. Take the main hall for example, the part past the elevator, towards the gym. There is only ONE way in and out of each area, and it sucks like that. If you're over there and someone is behind that extremely cheesy conc cannon secret, there's almost no way you can get out alive. "

As far as congestion and one-way streets goes. I would think the extra doors to outside I put should do the trick. Keep in mind I've reworked it so the entire building is walkable all the way around to the backside. The Gym is incased(an outdoor building now) and you can jump on top now with a little causeway from the main building. I was thinking along the lines of putting fire exits in a couple places that are just dead-ends. Either that or teleporters. Take the locker room behind the pool for instance. Nothing was ever there no reason to go there. Perfect place for a tele. I got the pool spazzed up with a diving board that uses push and the water bobs slightly. Thinking mirrored wood shader for the B-Ball court floor. Hafta look into that b/c I've never messed with mirroring yet.

Speaking of shaders. I do have one problem. Everytime I put like sky or water on now it shows up as a black box. It was working last week. I'm only sticking it on the face of the brush, not the brush itself. I know some of them don't work, but the water I was using to screw with a beach scene(bobbing sloped water brushes simulating tides on another sloped brush) isn't working when I compile that now. Any ideas?

Eldritch
11-10-2002, 11:01 PM
I'm gonna throw a couple of suggestions your way to try and help you minimize the negative comments you get on this map.

1) Don't take your screenshots in 3rd person with all the hud stuff on. Enter spectator mode, bring down the console, and type /cg_draw2d 0 (zero, not 'O'). This will remove the stuff in the way, and you don't even have to have cheats on to use it. The screenshots you make will be far less distracting and have more focus on your map, and can provide some more detail, as well as giving you greater freedom of movement.

2) As far as your textures go (and I know you said they're temporary), but in my mind they're only two ways to do textures for a WIP: either do only one texture throughout the entire map, or have the textures basically how you're going to release it (but not with all the little nitpicky stuff like lining everything up).
Textures that aren't really finalized are counterproductive because they make your map look bad, plus they're distracting and give the wrong impression of your map. It will help you get more constructive criticism, and it's just easier to look at.

Hope this helps you out. I will keep my comments to myself about the map for now, because it's really too hard to comment with things the way they are now.

editormg
11-13-2002, 01:28 PM
Heh i fogot to turn of hud yeah srry. Anyways Havn't had time to do much. I did add 2 teleporters, a train shuttle, some pickups, and putting portals in to get the FPS higher. Messing with cameras now.

TUX
11-14-2002, 11:03 AM
editormg, thanks for working on this level. Don't mind the people knocking it. If JHS for JK1 sucked so bad, they don't have to waste their time downloading it (never mind the fact that they waste their time criticizing it here). Personally, I enjoyed the level and I look forward to yours.

Again, thank you!

editormg
11-17-2002, 05:08 AM
Here's an above shot. been splitting time between 2 levels now

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/vwp?.dir=/Levels&.src=gr&.dnm=shot0055.jpg.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/editormg2000/lst%3f%26.dir=/Levels%26.src=gr%26.view=t

Goalposts? where? : )

idontlikegeorge
11-19-2002, 02:54 AM
yeah, JHS and ENC were fun, but that was also back in the day when players werent looking for the stuff they do now

in multiplay, balance, flow, and to some extent aesthetics are so much more important now, and those levels that we had fun on back in the day, just will not deliver to more "sophisticated" players

i mean really, i dont think id want to play empire night club or jedi high school in JK2:
for one thing, running speed was so much faster in JK then in JO (play JK a bit hehe - regular "jog", not even the run, is faster than the run in JO) - unless you scale the JK1 maps down, its way too much space
which brings up the looks of it... architecture wasnt really good at all - long square hallways and rooms, alot of repetitive textures

personally, i like where you are going, bringing some nostalgia for JK1 - which i believe to be the 2d best game ever made, and JO (SW quake) doesnt come close
...but i think you would be better off making a new map for the new game, and perhaps basing it off an older one

editormg
11-21-2002, 10:22 PM
For big maps running speed can be easily fixed in-game with g_speed cvar. heh only drawback is that it speeds up everything

actually there might be a player run speed option somewhere I think I saw