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Scarecrow_ES
11-09-2002, 03:16 AM
Hi all...

I'm totally new to modeling for video games, but have gotten into it full force lately with 2 models I have been working on. I would appreciate any and all constructive feedback from members of the community, as they will eventually be released to you...

Rebel Alliance/Rogue Squadron Pilot:

This is the main model I am working on right now, and it is more an experimental foray into model-making than a full-scale project. I am basically using this to practice UVW mapping, weighting, and all the more complicated stuff. The model is mostly re-hashed parts from the original game content, and modified textures from the game as well. The helmet, however, is all original, and is my main practice piece. It's design is a cross between the movie versions of rebel pilot helmets, and those in the comic books (which I think mostly look better). The textures are as faithful as I can be to the movie version. The pictures below were taken in Milkshape, and are of the most recent version of the model. The body textures have not yet been editted, but the helmet texture is almost final (missing transparency in the visor, a few touchups).

Picture 1 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_pic_01.html) | Picture 2 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_pic_02.html) | Picture 3 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_pic_03.html) | Picture 4 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_pic_04.html) | Picture 5 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_pic_05.html)

Scarecrow Custom Saber Hilt- Design #1:

This is my first saber hilt design, and is all original. This is actually an earlier version of the model, and is missing some of the more interesting features. The model itself is actually finished now, and features not included in the pictures that ARE in the final model are the thumb activation lever, the blade length adjust knob, the blade intensity adjust knob, and the recharge port/indicator recess. Just as with the design of the saber hilt itself, the design of these features are unlike most other hilts in the Star Wars Universe. This model is the highest-poly version, and lower LOD models will be produced as well. Currently the saber hilt is completely untextured.

Picture 1 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_pic_01.html) | Picture 2 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_pic_02.html) | Picture 3 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_pic_03.html) | Picture 4 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_pic_04.html) | Picture 5 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_pic_05.html)

After those, I will continue to create more custom saber hilts and player models. I have a few hilt designs already sketched, and some of them are very non-traditional (including a saber scythe done right, and a saber axe). For player models, I hope to start working on a model for Zuckuss, the Gand bounty hunter and findsman shown in The Empire Strikes Back. I will also start work on several player models representing a new alien race I call the Dakt'Ari (pronounced roughly "docked ahree"). The Dakt'Ari are a "reptilian-ish" humanoid race with a caste system of life. They are a spiritual race that is not as technologically advanced as most other races, and very few have ever been known to be force sensitive. The models will include a soldier, a warrior (a more heavily armed version of the soldier with helmet), and a jedi (similar to the soldier model, but with hood). Each model will include team support, bots, etc, and should also include dark and light versions.

Anyway, like I said, I'd appreciate any constructive comments you guys can offer. Thanks very much. ES

Scarecrow_ES
11-09-2002, 03:59 AM
Alot of the color is messed up in the pictures in part because the images are in .gif format, which only supports 256 colors. I assure you that the helmet textures are indeed more colorful, but not bright due to the fact that it is intended to have a dirty look. The textures on the body are largely of the trandoshan model, of which the orange is a very bland, yellowish color. I intend to colorize those textures to more closely match the "safety" orange of the rebel jumpsuits.

The size of the saber hilt is actually shorter and fatter than Kyle's saber hilt model. With both hands on the model, the top hand's top edge being placed just underneath the guard and the hands close together, the bottom edge of the bottom hand would come down to about... the top edge of the 3rd (bottom) ring of the grip.

In fact, I think I'll upload a few current pics, including one or two to show a size comparison to a player hand.

[JKZ]_Yun
11-09-2002, 04:10 AM
nice model
cool hilt i can't wait to this model comes out :D

Scarecrow_ES
11-09-2002, 06:24 AM
Alright... I've gone ahead and uploaded a few detail pictures of the saber hilt with some size comparisons. The first couple of pics have been taken with just the facets, instead of with smoothing, because it is easier to pick out some of the features that way. The first pic identifies some of those features. The final 2 pics are of the saber positioned against Kyle's hand, so you can see about how large it will look in the game.

Picture 6 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_06.html) | Picture 7 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_07.html) | Picture 8 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_08.html) | Picture 9 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_09.html) | Picture 10 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_10.html) | Picture 11 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_saber_11.html)

Mex
11-09-2002, 09:39 AM
You could make an x-wing or a ship hilt! That would be a great idea for a pilot! (A mini x-wing ship ofcourse :))

Hellfire Jedi
11-09-2002, 09:59 AM
WOW! That is the best!! Great job dude this ur first model!?!

-Chrono_MOT-
11-09-2002, 10:13 AM
Could you give us a polycount on that saber hilt?

Nice player model.

t3rr0r
11-09-2002, 10:54 AM
my suggestion is to make the control box more of a square, and perhaps model the pipe/cord/whatever and remove it from the body skin. the helmet looks cool, but it seems a little tall... http://skitten.best.vwh.net/starwars/devs.jpg

ronbrothers
11-09-2002, 04:02 PM
Hey, that Rebel pilot is looking great!! For your first model, that is fantastic!

Scarecrow_ES
11-10-2002, 01:05 AM
Ok... I did a ton of work on the Alliance pilot model today... much, much skinning. I have pretty much finished the model part of the model, and I consider that final pending any problems that may crop up later. I have made a few tweaks to the helmet itself, but those were very minor (I think I moved around maybe 8 vertices). With reguards to the height of the helmet... yes, I realize it looks taller than what you see in the cheaper movie helmets. The ones they used in the movies were based on old, off-brand military helmets, but the comic books tended to make them look alittle beefier. The shape of the helmet itself is based largely on the various comic books. Also, funny thing, the height serves a functional value in that it allows it to fit over the heads in the game. If it were not that shape, the head would be sticking out. And you know what else, t3rr0r, it is funny reading your post tonight (it's after midnight), because I actually spend a fair amount of time today adjusting the control box, and adding in the life support umbilical. I intended it to blend into the body at the side, so it kinda "disappears" into the texture on the back. I have uploaded 6 more pics of the updates I completed on the model today. The first few will feature the new, transparent visor, some texture revisions, and the changes to life support. The last 2 pics show the red and blue team models as the are today (pretty much the same as the orange). The pics are .jpeg's this time, so the color comes out.

Picture 6 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_06.html) | Picture 7 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_07.html) | Picture 8 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_08.html) | Picture 9 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_09.html) | Picture 10 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_10.html) | Picture 11 (http://www.geocities.com/scarecrow_es/wip_pilot_11.html)

What else? Oh, polycounts. Currently, the saber hilt has somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,000 triangles (OUCH!). But just to note, this is completely unoptimized, and there are alot of extra polys in there that are helping in the final set-up of the model. I expect that when I first optimize the model, I could knock off an easy 300-400 polys. Plus, there will be at least 1 other LOD for the hilt, because there is alot of useless detail that just isn't needed on a lower end system.

And yes, these are my first game models I have developed. I have, however, always been involved in art and design, and am actually going to school for "video games". Unfortunately, I am at least another YEAR away from the point where I can take 3D modeling courses for my degree, and I just couldn't wait. I picked up Gmax and Milkshape, and just went in alone, with no idea what I was doing. Heck, it took me days to figure out a way to UV map that helmet. I haven't even started to read up on weighting (AGH!).

Speaking of which... I could use alittle help from the community experts here. It seems everytime I load the root .xsi file, my laptop overloads, and Milkshape crashes. Is there anyone out there who has just the tags, bones, and skeleton of the root .xsi saved as a Milkshape compatible file that I could use? Also, I could really use your guys' help in locating decent source material for the other decals on the pilots' helmets in A New Hope. I intend to release the Alliance Pilot model with 3 helmet designs, 3 faces, and 3 colored jumpsuits. Heck, I just might keep making skins for the helmet and release a 10 skin pack somewhere down the line. I am especially looking for good pics of the checkered pattern on... Biggs' (maybe)... helmet, though. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Scarecrow_ES
11-12-2002, 12:54 AM
Sorry guys, no new updates for this model yet. I'll be working again on the textures soon, but I really really need a file with just the bones, tags, and skeleton in a milkshape compatible format in order to start weighting the model... can anyone help me out there?

Pnut_Man
11-12-2002, 07:44 AM
Nice model you have here...I'll be interested in skinning it if that is possible..

Xyphox
11-13-2002, 05:41 PM
Looks very nice, just one thing. It looks like his head is kinda big and his body is kinda small. Maybe it's just me.

Scarecrow_ES
11-14-2002, 02:07 AM
The head itself on the model is the exact head from the jedi/prisoner model... completely unresized. The helmet was designed around the head, and then scaled to size using the head and the TIE pilot helmet (which ended up almost exactly the same size). I took alot of the pictures with a slight overhead perspective, and Milkshape seems to "fisheye" things alittle... that might be it.

Recent updates: I lied about the helmet being final (model-wise). I've adjusted a few points that either didn't look right, or were giving me trouble texture-wise. I have adjusted the front of the crest, bringing the edges farther down, making it closer to the movie versions than to the comic versions. I have widened the top alittle to make the helmet alittle squarer at the top, and to help the texture out alittle. Accordingly, the helmet texture has been editted and the color has been saturated a bit more. It definitely looks alittle better, although I doubt anyone would really notice. Also, I have started working on a few more helmet designs (Wedge's being the second). I intend to release at least 3 helmet designs with the version 1.0 release. Bigg's helmet will probably be the 3rd. Other than those, I can't really think of any updates I've done recently on the rebel pilot model.

I have started optimizing the Saber Hilt model, and will be UVW mapping it soon. The texture will be very easy to complete, and I expect to finish the highest poly-count version within a week. After that, I will try to finish up at least one lower LOD version for the 1.0 release. The saber should be available for release within 3 weeks (crossing my fingers on that one).

Also, I have been conceptualizing various models. There are alot of original things that I want to do, and oddly, I already have alot of ideas for about 3 or 4 different models. The most work I have done was for the Dakt'Ari models. The concept work for these series of models is actually far along, but I have yet to pin down the head for this species. Another one I am working on will be a stark contrast to the Dakt'Ari, which are a kind of "rough" looking race. I haven't gotten a name for them yet, but they will be a very elegant race. The character modeled for this race will be female, and I guess the general feel for this model will be alot like the Kaminoans, and likewise will have that very thin, sensual edge.

Ummm, ok, I've talked way too much. Anyway, there is ONE BIG THING I do need help on. I absolutely can not isolate the tags, bones, and skeleton of the root.xsi file. For some reason, whenever I load it and/to try to select/delete something, Milkshape will either freeze up, or will give me an error promp and close down. In order to finish the model, I need those items. So uh, does anyone have those isolated in a file that I might be able to get ahold of? eh? eh? This would be greatly appreciated!

Alright... signing off... ES

Scarecrow_ES
11-16-2002, 01:28 AM
Alright... no worthwhile updates. Did some texture work on wedge's helmet, but that is about all.

Nobody seems to be reading this thread. Dang. That kinda sucks, because I really do need one of my nice fellow modellers out there to help me out by hooking me up with the file I need to get this thing into the game and out to the public.

"C'mon nah... help a brutha out."

moooa
11-16-2002, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by Scarecrow_ES
Nobody seems to be reading this thread. Dang. That kinda sucks, because I really do need one of my nice fellow modellers out there to help me out by hooking me up with the file I need to get this thing into the game and out to the public.


Check your pm

Psynex
11-16-2002, 10:16 AM
sometimes people read, but don't post. I just popped onto this thread because I read many of them, but wanted to coment on the saber hilt. I really like the design; it really fits the universe. I agree that an LOD should be added because the blade emitter detail won't even be seen in game. My beef with the model is that there are no smoothing groups. Newer artists know nothing about them at first. When smoothing groups are used it increases the quality of your models ten fold. In a nutshell what they do for you is give you some of that nice crips detail you see in a flatshaded view along with the smoothness of viewing the model in smoothshade. You should read up on them or just ask for some quick tips and I give ya some.

Scarecrow_ES
11-18-2002, 12:56 AM
I haven't done much on the models lately, so no important updates. A few texture modifications here and there. I looked into mesh smoothing... thank you for the tip. I hope to make something of the advice.

I was bored the other day, and full of ideas for my Dakt'Ari models, and rather than lose them, I actually started on the model. Surprisingly, I have come a long way in these short few days. I'll probably post its own thread soon.

Mex
12-07-2002, 04:34 PM
Any idea when this will be released?

ronbrothers
12-07-2002, 11:27 PM
Hey scarecrow_es, just so you know, even though this post was buried, there is still a lot of interest in your model.

ninja
06-22-2003, 10:07 PM
what ever happend to this thing? looked like it was almost done.

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
06-29-2003, 12:40 AM
I can find nothing wrong with this model. It's amazing. I really like it. I was wondering if you had thought about doing a luke pilot model. I think that's one of the only models of luke that people haven't explored. Of course, that and dark empire luke.

Infinity Blade
06-29-2003, 06:10 AM
Actually... HapSlash was working on an X-wing pilot/luke model...

http://wat.midco.net/eggnog1/xwing-luke.jpg

I think he might have planned on having toggling surfaces, to turn the helmet off and on...

Infinity Blade
06-29-2003, 06:30 AM
This may be too little too late, but here's a couple of thoughts:

Originally posted by Psynex
My beef with the model is that there are no smoothing groups
When you export it to an XSI that assimilate and carcass use to convert it to the glm, I'm sure all smoothing group information is pretty much lost. I've tried using smoothing groups, and then tried without... didn't make any noticable change when I got it in game.

Originally posted by Scarecrow_ES
I absolutely can not isolate the tags, bones, and skeleton of the root.xsi file. For some reason, whenever I load it and/to try to select/delete something, Milkshape will either freeze up, or will give me an error promp and close down.
While I don't have a solution to offer you, I do have this thought.

To my knowledge, there is no way to get around using 3ds Max to weight and export your model into a form usable by assimilate/carcass. If so, you might as well just import the skeleton and tags that way.

Hellfire Jedi
06-29-2003, 11:31 AM
No one post here anymore, this thread is DEAD, the guy HASN'T POSTED in a LONG time. Do NOT post.

The Cheat
07-02-2003, 08:36 PM
oh well, hapslash is making a rebel pilot that looks really promising