PDA

View Full Version : Dinosaurs. Warm or cold blooded?


TheWhiteRaider
11-20-2002, 02:38 AM
Which do you think they are?

JediNyt
11-20-2002, 02:46 AM
No one knows for sure. Some were warm some were cold. Thats about all the fact we know about.:giveup:

TheWhiteRaider
11-20-2002, 02:58 AM
I think the realy big ones had to be warm blooded. I think the surface to mass ratio alone would show that. I mean take a
T-Rex a very big dino. He would have to sun himself alot to get warm and by the time he did he it would be dark almost.

-s/<itzo-
11-20-2002, 03:19 AM
you really can't consider dinosaurs neither cold nor warm blooded in general because there are alot of different types.


if you can be specific to what type, then you can make the assumption whether they are cold or warm blooded.

Taos
11-20-2002, 04:22 AM
Well, I'd have to say that dinosaurs were cold blooded. Mostly because they were reptiles and reptiles are cold blooded. :D

[RAA]-=Chi3f=-
11-20-2002, 04:55 AM
Giant egg laying reptiles = cold blooded.

I learned that in a geneology/palentology class in high school, lol

Eldritch
11-20-2002, 08:55 AM
Cold-blooded, just like most other reptiles.

(Dinosaur = terrible lizard; lizard = reptile)

PhantomHelix
11-20-2002, 09:01 AM
yeah, i think they are cold-blooded. all reptiles are, and they are from the reptile family (for the most part).....

Rogue15
11-20-2002, 10:40 AM
I dunno, maybe they didn't have blood. :D

Kstar__2
11-20-2002, 10:49 AM
they where reptiles (most of them) so cold blooded, some where a sort of birds, so they could be warm

Clemme w/Stick
11-20-2002, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by JediNyt
No one knows for sure. Some were warm some were cold. Thats about all the fact we know about.:giveup:

Well, thats what I think....but it could be proven wrong..!

-Clemme

-s/<itzo-
11-20-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by -=Chi3f=-
Giant egg laying reptiles = cold blooded.


what about chickens. they lay eggs are they considered cold blooded.


like i said before you really can't categorize dinosaurs either cold or warm blooded. cuz some differ from others.

Scientists have conflicting opinions on this subject. Some paleontologists think that all dinosaurs were "warm-blooded" in the same sense that modern birds and mammals are. that is, they had rapid metabolic rates. Other scientists think it unlikely that any dinosaur could have had a rapid metabolic rate. Some scientists think that very big dinosaurs could have had warm bodies because of their large body size, just as some sea turtles do today. It may be that some dinosaurs were warm-blooded. The problem is that it is hard to find evidence that unquestionably shows what dinosaur metabolisms were like.

C'jais
11-20-2002, 12:38 PM
What Skitzo says is correct.

If you've ever seen the dinosaur with the huge "sail" or windshield on it's back (can't remember the name), then you would assume they were cold blooded as the only logical explanation of the "solar sail" is that it used it to collect heat from the sun very rapidly.

Birds evolved from dino's (or did they? see evolution thread) and they are warm blooded as far as I know - another point to debate.

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 12:48 PM
Actually the "sails" on the back of dinosaurs supports that they were warm blooded (endotherms). These "sails' were believed to radiate away excess body heat.

More supporting evidence for dinosaurs being warm-blooded is that many were found in the arctic and antarctic, where cold-blooded animals could not survive

C'jais
11-20-2002, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
Actually the "sails" on the back of dinosaurs supports that they were warm blooded (endotherms). These "sails' were believed to radiate away excess body heat.

More supporting evidence for dinosaurs being warm-blooded is that many were found in the arctic and antarctic, where cold-blooded animals could not survive

You know what, you're absolutely right.

Dinosaurs have indeed found to be living on antarctica.

And the solar sail theory you present sounds much more plausible than mine.

Rogue15
11-20-2002, 12:52 PM
there's no proof they had sails, is there? (btw that dino's name is Dimetrodon) I guess a sail would've been a logical explanation for the spines though. :)

[RAA]-=Chi3f=-
11-20-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by -s/&lt;itzo-


what about chickens. they lay eggs are they considered cold blooded.


like i said before you really can't categorize dinosaurs either cold or warm blooded. cuz some differ from others.

Scientists have conflicting opinions on this subject. Some paleontologists think that all dinosaurs were "warm-blooded" in the same sense that modern birds and mammals are. that is, they had rapid metabolic rates. Other scientists think it unlikely that any dinosaur could have had a rapid metabolic rate. Some scientists think that very big dinosaurs could have had warm bodies because of their large body size, just as some sea turtles do today. It may be that some dinosaurs were warm-blooded. The problem is that it is hard to find evidence that unquestionably shows what dinosaur metabolisms were like.

You have a point, but...

First we're not talking about warm blooded chickens and the fowl family, we are talking about cold-blooded reptiles. There is evidence to prove that reptiles and the reptile like dinosaurs are cold-blooded.

Second, not everything in that time period, as historians have found, was a reptile. Other forms of life were around that spawned what we know today as domestic and wild animals. It's like a person that lives in a different climate develops different physical and social charecteristics. It's how life adapts to the environment. Maybe being cold-blooded is a natural response to the environment at prehistoric times. Who knows, I wasn't there, lol

Third you have to use your judgement on this. I've never been to Australia, but a globe tells me it's there. A globe tells me a lot about the Earth that I don't really know to be true. How can I really be sure any of it's true? There comes a point where you have to rely on instinct as well as fact, ya know? All forms of reptiles today are cold-blooded. What's to say they weren't millions of years ago? This is one of the many questions that we'll probably never know the answer to.


Good topic, btw


:D

-s/<itzo-
11-20-2002, 12:58 PM
-=Chi3f=- my bad, i was just being sacrcastic on that egg/chicken comment. i taught it was funny.


and yes indeed, it is a good topic.

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Rogue15


there's no proof they had sails, is there?


Skeltons have been found like this
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/dgifs/DimetrodonPuckett.GIF

And I think some people might have found a tissue sample of the sail.

C'jais
11-20-2002, 01:00 PM
If dinosaurs lived on antarctica, how could they have been cold blooded?

Either they were a mix of warm and cold blooded creatures (with warm blooded ones adapting to a freezing environment), or they were all warm blooded, IMO.

EDIT - I suddenly remember something: I think it's been theorized that antarctica was once a lush, hot climate - but I'm not too sure.

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 01:08 PM
In my opinion it was both warm blooded and cold blooded.

If herbivores (plant eating dinosaurs) were warm-blooded they would have to eat 10 times the amount of calories a cold-blooded animal would. This means they would have trouble finding enough food for their immense body mass if they were warmblooded, but if cold blooded they would not need to eat as much.

I believe that the meat-eating dinosaurs were warm-blooded and the giant plant-eating dinosaurs were cold-blooded.

[RAA]-=Chi3f=-
11-20-2002, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Cjais
If dinosaurs lived on antarctica, how could they have been cold blooded?

Either they were a mix of warm and cold blooded creatures (with warm blooded ones adapting to a freezing environment), or they were all warm blooded, IMO.

EDIT - I suddenly remember something: I think it's been theorized that antarctica was once a lush, hot climate - but I'm not too sure.

I think you're right. Lizards can live in cold climates. In exteme cold temperatures, reptiles burrow into the soil where heat doesn't escape. The polar caps haven't been around forever. It may have been one of the reasons why dinosaurs became extinct. It may also be why animals, like the whooly mammoth, came to be. Who knows, but good point.


@ -s/<itzo-: Oh no, I'm just being a smart ass, lol. Under no circumstances do I get pissed at a fellow swampie. The -=DoW=- clan on the other hand...


He he he...

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 01:17 PM
I do not think that Antarctica was a hot climate. At least not during the dinosaurs time but I am not sure.

Regarding coldblooded dino's living in extrem cold conditions, they can't live under ground all the time. They would be extremly sluggish and you have to be alert to hunt in that weather.

[RAA]-=Chi3f=-
11-20-2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
In my opinion it was both warm blooded and cold blooded.

If herbivores (plant eating dinosaurs) were warm-blooded they would have to eat 10 times the amount of calories a cold-blooded animal would. This means they would have trouble finding enough food for their immense body mass if they were warmblooded, but if cold blooded they would not need to eat as much.

I believe that the meat-eating dinosaurs were warm-blooded and the giant plant-eating dinosaurs were cold-blooded.



Another good point. Environmental adaptation.



Boy, we should start a Swampies science team, we bad! we bad! :ewok:

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 01:44 PM
Hell yeah. We could unlock the mystery's of the world right here in the Swamp:D

C'jais
11-20-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
Hell yeah. We could unlock the mystery's of the world right here in the Swamp:D

See my evolution vs creationism debate :D

[/blatant advertising]

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 01:51 PM
I've been in there a couple of times

-s/<itzo-
11-20-2002, 02:39 PM
If you think about it dinosaurs are not reptiles.......


The problem concerns with the metabolic rate in dinosaurs. It is claimed by the adherents of the dinosaurian warm-bloodedness that the dinosaurs had a high metabolic rate and therefore were very active - or vice versa. And as reptiles have low metabolic rate and therefore are slow and generally inactive, the dinosaurs were not reptiles, but something else, a class of their own.



so you really can't compare reptiles with dinosaurs.

thats like comparing a fish and a whale.

Pad
11-20-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Aru-Wen
Cold-blooded, just like most other reptiles.

(Dinosaur = terrible lizard; lizard = reptile)
yep, very true

if they were warm blooded they would have survived

ckcsaber
11-20-2002, 07:21 PM
http://www.dino-web.com/images/willo.jpg

This dinosaur (named Willo) was found with a heart intact. The heart found supports the theory that dinosaurs were COLD blooded. As you can see so much evidence contradictcs other evidence it just seems as if some were warm blooded and some were cold blooded.

XylanKasshu00
11-20-2002, 10:26 PM
PEOPLE!!!!.......They were all cold blooded, all reptiles are cold blooded. Duh, about the them living in anarctica, it was a slush place at once, all the land you see now formed a huge Island called Pangea, (forgot how to spell it) And There were no Poles, the coldest places were not adaptable to Dinosaurs, That is why you see the different dinosaurs all over earth. They spead across that land. In time the tectonic plates shifted forming our contients today. They WERE cold blooded. Common Sense, can't give a full lesson about it. So think, and visit your library! :D

TheWhiteRaider
11-21-2002, 02:01 AM
If dinosaurs were warm blooded then they could be in a phylum all of their own.

First. Dinosaur's have small holes inside the bones. Warm blooded animals have the same holes, but the hole could have come from bone decay as some say.

Second. The surface to mass ratio alone has a good part of the debate. It takes a snake an 0.5-2 hour(s) of sunning to get it to the right amount of heat. Now take a dinosaur like a T-Rex. That would take a long time to heat up with out help.

It is possible that some dinosaurs can be in their own phylum and they may not be reptile. We say they are lizards, but how can we realy tell? If they were alive today we could tell, but we can only guess from their bones.

The duck-billed Platipus is a not a bird and it lays eggs and it is warm blooded. We say it is a mammal yet it does not fit it all.

TheWhiteRaider
11-21-2002, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by XylanKasshu00
Duh, about the them living in anarctica, it was a slush place at once, all the land you see now formed a huge Island called Pangea, (forgot how to spell it) And There were no Poles, the coldest places were not adaptable to Dinosaurs, That is why you see the different dinosaurs all over earth. They spead across that land. In time the tectonic plates shifted forming our contients today. :D

Though we do not know that it is still a good possibility. That could even fit with my faith.

Jedi_Monk
11-21-2002, 03:00 AM
(Dinosaur = terrible lizard; lizard = reptile)
What's in a name? The term Dinosaur was coined by scientists in 1841... and have you seen the earliest pictures of dinosaurs? Have you seen what they thought Iguanodon looked like the first time they decided to put its bones together? Not much like what paleontologists think it looked like now... it looked like, well, a lizard: huge head, big horn on its nose (which they later discovered belonged on its thumb), four legs on the ground splayed widely.

if they were warm blooded they would have survived
How do you figure? Crocodiles were around at the time of the dinosaurs, and they're still around today.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

C'jais
11-21-2002, 12:09 PM
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=00084771-7316-1C72-9EB7809EC588F2D7&catID=3

There's no damning proof that they were either warm or cold blooded - they had mixing traits of both warm and cold blooded modern animals.

Saying they were reptiles isn't going to help you one bit, Xylan.

TheWhiteRaider
11-21-2002, 11:06 PM
I agree that there is no proof which type they were.

XylanKasshu00
11-21-2002, 11:28 PM
Hehe, I'm impressed. We'll no there is not any real proof. But it should be common knowledge, no one in their right mind would say all warm blooded, but in the time of Pangea the equator and the warm climate around that were would have not been that great or a adaptable to warm blooded creatures. Now when the Ice Age....thats a different story, but you don't see any cold blooded animals running around then do you? Thats kind of why we have both today. This is theory, but the best and most logical theory today. Who know, maybe there were cold-blooded dinosaurs back then. :rolleyes:

You make a interesting debate Cjais. I'd have to look some more things up to get more people to agree with me, but school has me swamp, plus I'm lazy lol.