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Dragonlancer
11-20-2002, 09:17 PM
****************Possible Spoiler Warning ****************















It just occured to me, this is only a theory mind you, but I think it is a good one. I think that Count Dooku turned to the dark side when he found out about sidious's control over the senate, but I think that he turned to Darth Sidious for the time for his own purposes. I came up with this theory on my own, and I looked through episode 2, specificly scenes with Dooku, to back up my theory. They are all minor things, but I think George Lucas is good at leaving very small clues for people to find.

1. Dooku and Obi-wan as a prisoner. It seems as though he was serious in asking Obi-Wan to join him, and equally serious about destroying the sith. Perhaps he was in over his head and needed help getting out.

2. Final Duel, after obi-wan and anakin had fallen. At that point dooku gave a heavy sigh, this could be due to the heat of the battle, or it could be at being forced to harm jedi.

3. Home coming with Dooku and Darth Sidious. Just a split second before the screen fades out to obi-wan mace windu and yoda, the screen sort of bounces over to the right so you can see dooku's face. If you look carefully, it appears he was frowning, perhaps at the thought of having been partly responsible for starting the Clone Wars.

Again, this was simply a theory. Tell me what you think please. Oh and one more thing. Dooku may be using the darth side of the force to try to cloud himself even from darth sidious, but when anakin turns to the darth side it goes wrong and anakin kills him. Or perhaps sidious himself.

Maverick Knight
11-20-2002, 09:25 PM
Hmm...interesting idea. Knowing GL, we shouldn't discount ANYTHING yet. Jar-jar could turn out to be the big Sith Lord Surprise, for all we know.

But a few of my own takes on that stuff:

1. Dooku's sales pitch to Obi-wan. This could just as easily have been an example of Dooku's charisma. He did organize that ragtag group of bad-guys and manage to get the Clone Wars rolling, after all. And he's supposed to be rich, too, so we can assume he's just naturally persuasive.

2. Dooku's sigh. This could have been because he was disgusted with how easily he was able to take on and defeat two Jedis at once. I'll have to watch the DVD when I get it to see how he did the sigh, though.

3. Dooku's frown. Don't remember. Will have to watch it on the DVD.

ET Warrior
11-20-2002, 10:27 PM
I think that everyone forgets that Dooku WAS going to kill obiwan after he knocked him down. His saber was lifted above his head and he was bringing it down to lop of obi's head when anakin saved him with his big old leap.

Purple_Tentacle
11-21-2002, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Maverick Knight
And he's supposed to be rich, too, so we can assume he's just naturally persuasive.


the force can have a strong influence on the weak minded.
do you think that the jedi mind trick only works for the jedi ? sidious and dooku would have been using the mind trick all over the shop to get the events of ep.2 in order.

most notably sidious uses the mind trick on jarjar in order to get him to suggest the military creation act. he made pademe leave couracant because he knew that gungans were very easily influenced by the mind trick.

well thats what i think anyways :)

Pad
11-21-2002, 07:49 AM
hmm, could be there is some truth in dragonlancers theory. as we know dooku will get killed in epIII. it could be dooku had still some good in him and thats why he got kiled by anakin or sidious. i think thats more likely then a jedi do the trick.

Sivy
11-21-2002, 08:11 AM
i think it will happen like this


dooku still has to honour the agreement to the trade federation and kill padme, after finding out that anakin is sercertly married to padme, sidious sends dooku to do the job himself. (because sidious wants anakin) dooku will kill padme, but it wont be padme, it will be a decoy. anakin won't know this and seek revenge, anakin kills dooku and his transition to the darkside is complete, obi-wan goes after anakin, they fight, along comes sidious to pick up the pieces, vader is born - jedi die

Dragonlancer
11-21-2002, 10:41 PM
Padanime, yes that's what I was basically what I was getting at.

Sivy B, yeah I think that's a very valid theory. It could very well happen like that. Perhaps sidious will use dooku to kill anakin, therefore driving him mad and making him strike down dooku. And as you said obi-wan goes after him and pleads with him to turn back to the light side, anakin gets ticked off and comes at him. Obi-wan tears him appart eventually. (please note that I do not believe this will be a one way duel, anakin will almost beat him but obi will win) Obi-wan walks away thinking it was over, sidious comes along and picks up the peices. The jedi purge begins.

JediNyt
11-21-2002, 11:59 PM
Dooku may be still struggling with his new lifestyle persay but regardless he is under Sidious power. If he is having any second thoughts they will disapear in short time. Thats how the Sith work. He is the apprentice and Sidious is the master. Vader who is better than Tyranus could not overcome Sidious power over him until his powerful son stirred up the Light in him, causing him to want to save his son from electricution. Dooku is not like that. As powerful as he is, he is under Sidious power. He serves his master dutifly. Now if a great oportunity came to take Sidious place he may go for it, as any Sith may. But it would have to be an extraordinary oportunity which Sidious will never give him. Remember Vader said "I must obey my master.". Dooku aint some freelance Sith.:roleyess: Thats ludicrous. A master and an apprentice. Thats the way it is. Sidious and Tyranus are the Sith. And the rest writes itself, period.

Count Dooku 2
11-22-2002, 03:29 PM
Count Dooku is a dark lord of the Sith, and would never betray his master. Next to patience, the Sith Lord's greatest strength is loyalty, and Count Dooku is a Sith Lord through and through. His 'sales pitch' to Obi-Wan was only to try and rally supporters to the Confederacy, not to the Sith Lords. His heavy sigh was in reaction to the outcome to the lightsaber duel: he had to disable two Jedi, and he was always looking for a quiet getaway from Geonosis. As for the frown (which is on the DVD), this is meerly a thought-provoked frown. The Clone Wars have just started, and there is much to think about if you are the second most important person on your side.

Count Dooku IS Darth Tyranus, and would never betray Darth Sidious. Sith Lords never betray their masters.

Maverick Knight
11-22-2002, 04:15 PM
Let me be the first to say that Vader betrayed Palpatine.

:D

Dragonlancer
11-22-2002, 06:53 PM
count dooku 2, I quote Mace Windu. "You forget that count dooku was once a jedi." My point is that, as Maverick Knight said, vader also was once a jedi, but he turned on palpatine. Why not dooku? Think about it.

Jedi_Monk
11-22-2002, 08:25 PM
I think you've got it backwards... I think Palpatine betrays Dooku. Dooku was only doing Palpatine's will when he told Obi-Wan about the Sith being in control of the Senate... the Jedi are going to be, "keeping a closer eye on the Senate", which may well lead to them being accused of treason... the obvious result of that little power play would be the Jedi purge.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

dorain8
11-23-2002, 01:23 AM
I DONT THINK HE WILL BUT I HAVE NO EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP, JUST PURE THOUGHT


BUT TO DEFEND YOUR IDEA,

DOOKU WAS INFACT IN THE LIBRARY THING WHERE OBIWAN WAS TRYING TO FIND KAMINO

AND HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST JEDI EVER
...
.
.
.
.
.
HE COULD HAVE JUST BEEN TEMPTING OBIWAN TO JOIN HIS SIDE, NOT AS A SITH BUT AS AN ALLY

Count Dooku 2
11-23-2002, 08:19 AM
Just because Count Dooku was once a Jedi (like Anakin) doesn't mean that he will betray Darth Sidious.

Darth Vader killed Palpatine when his son, Luke, was in trouble and close to death. He was defending his son, and felt emotion when he saw Luke dying. Count Dooku has no son or daughter for this to happen, nor does he have an emotional attachment to any of the Jedi which will be killed in Episode III. There is nothing to get in his way.

Purple_Tentacle
11-23-2002, 09:50 PM
but dooku wants to rule the galaxy, not be No.2

Jedi_Monk
11-23-2002, 10:29 PM
but dooku wants to rule the galaxy, not be No.2
No, Dooku is disillusioned with everything, especially the Jedi Order. I don't think he has any interest in being the Master.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Purple_Tentacle
11-24-2002, 02:36 AM
i think that the offer made to obi-wan was genuine, and dooku would have joined with obiwan and destroyed sidious. maybe.
i dunno....

2006 ?>!?!>?!>?

humph :mad:

Dragonlancer
11-24-2002, 04:30 PM
Count Dooku 2, I see where your coming from but I still think he might turn back. He was trained by yoda, so yoda would be thought of, at least in part, as a friend. Notice that when he pushed the pillar over so yoda would catch it, he didn't just stab him, he ran away. Possible because escape was his first priority, or perhaps he didn't actually have the intention of killing yoda. And, unless I'm mistaken, he even called mace windu "old friend" and he also seemed to have an attatchment to qui-gon jinn "I could use his help right now."

Hehe, wouldn't it be funny if we actually had lucas figured out but he saw this and changed the script just so we wouldn't have the pleasure of having gotten it right? lol:D

Darth Talliusc
11-24-2002, 11:03 PM
this is actually very funny. i made a thread on this topic a while back at the swamp and got nothing but flames in return. so i shut my mouth. i agree with your theory completely and i ahve some evidence to add


first: dooku couldve chopped anakin quite easily when yoda walked in but he didnt, he turned and started talking. now dooku;s not an idiot he couldve finished anakin right there and pissed yoda off, this wouldve disrupted yoda's concentration and allowed dooku to do better in the fight.


second: when dooku takes down the pillar to crush obi/anakin he couldve easily attacked yoda onc


e more but hes content to let everybody live... why? when he couldve killed them all... or at least 1 of em.


third: what could he gain from that sales pitch to obi-wan? his aid in destroying the sith and thats it. if obi-wan agreed then we wouldnt have to worry bout sid imo. but if dooku knew he'd be turned and down and was acting from pure evil then what could he gain? i cant see anything. that scene reminds me of ep5 when vader offers to help luke kill the emperor and then rule the galaxy. he was serious then and dooku was serious in ep2.


dooku gave obi-wan the chacne to back down and let him leave geonosis but he was pushed into fighting. he couldnt really help it. he played quite defensively trying to incapacitate the jedi so he could leave.


we all know that tyranus hired jango ten years before ep2. which was the time of ep1 and the resurgence of the sith into the known galaxy.

we know that dooku can take pretty much any jedi. i mean he handed anakin AND obi-wan their asses and still had enough fight left to beat yoda. sure he didnt kill yoda but he got what he wanted. if the best of the jedi cant take Dooku then who will? simple only a dark lord of the sith could do that. imo it will be either sid who kills him or more likely anakin when hes goin darkside. Sidious wants Anakin to be his right hand, hes simply got more potential then Dooku does. but you cant have 2 apprentices thats the sith rule only 2 shall there ever be. so sid needs to be rid of Dooku to take Anakin under his wing.

we also know that Dooku doesnt survive ep3, because hes not in the sequels, so he MUST die.





well theres my theory. there will be more added as it comes to me but please dont turn this into a flame war like the last Dooku betrays Sid thread i saw.

Jedi_Monk
11-25-2002, 12:27 AM
first: dooku couldve chopped anakin quite easily when yoda walked in but he didnt, he turned and started talking. now dooku;s not an idiot he couldve finished anakin right there and pissed yoda off, this wouldve disrupted yoda's concentration and allowed dooku to do better in the fight.
See, Jedi can only use the Force for knowledge and defense... never for attack. Which basically means, Jedi don't believe in pre-emptive strikes. But they can use the Force in their own defense, or in the defense of somebody else... and when they use the Force, they only use the least possible amount possible to accomplish their intention. The more urgent the situation, the more violent the responce would have to be.

If Dooku had tried to kill Anakin right there, Yoda would've done what he had to to save his fellow Jedi. And whatever he decided to do, it wouldn't be good for Dooku's health, I can tell you that!

second: when dooku takes down the pillar to crush obi/anakin he couldve easily attacked yoda once more but hes content to let everybody live... why? when he couldve killed them all... or at least 1 of em.
Dooku learned a very important lesson there: do not underestimate Yoda. Who knows what Yoda would have done if Dooku had attacked him then? Remember, size matters not. Maybe Yoda would've thrown the pillar at Dooku's ship, effectively screwing him over.

third: what could he gain from that sales pitch to obi-wan? his aid in destroying the sith and thats it. if obi-wan agreed then we wouldnt have to worry bout sid imo. but if dooku knew he'd be turned and down and was acting from pure evil then what could he gain? i cant see anything. that scene reminds me of ep5 when vader offers to help luke kill the emperor and then rule the galaxy. he was serious then and dooku was serious in ep2.
What could Dooku have gained by telling Obi-Wan about the Sith? Here's an exert from the Adventures of Luke Starkiller (George Lucas, 1975):
As the Republic spread throughout the galaxy, encompassing over a million worlds, the GREAT SENATE grew to such overwhelming proportions that it no longer responded to the needs of its citizens. After a series of assassinations and elaborately rigged elections, the Great Senate became secretly controlled by the Power and Transport guilds. When the Jedi discovered the conspiracy and attempted to purge the Senate, they were denounced as traitors.
Now, replace the "Power and Transport guilds" with "The Sith" and you have the same exact senario, with a different baddie behind it. Dooku revealed the "conspiracy", which results in the Jedi "attempting to purge the senate" which gets the Jedi "denounced as traitors", which results in the Jedi Purge. So what did the Sith gain by revealing their intentions to the Jedi? They got the opportunity to annhilate their greatest enemies, with the galaxy backing them.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

JediNyt
11-25-2002, 03:06 AM
Or he told Obi that story knowing Obi wouldnt believe him so the Jedi wouldnt be suspicious of the Senate. Like reverse psycology. Tell them what you know they wont believe so it sements that disbelief even more. Makes perfect sense. But in this case Dookus attempt didnt work as well as he hoped cause the Jedi are still suspicious of the Senate. But they arent sure about Sidious.

Darth Talliusc
11-25-2002, 05:24 PM
not bad jedi monk. not bad at all. but i think that we are going to have to agree that we have entirely different opinions here.


as for your first explanation, that Yoda couldve stopped Dooku from killing Anakin well i dont think he could. and if he could then with what? the only things that could possibly stop Dooku from doing that that Yoda would hesitate to use later in the fight are things that would kill Dooku. if Yoda knew how to stun the ol count then he wouldve used it in the battle


the lethal moves are the only ones that could actually make sense for yoda to hold back until needed, but what are they? i dont believe that anything that yoda can dish out can kill that quickly. you say he wouldve done everything necessary to stop Dooku but things like lightning are blockable and things like Grip wouldnt kill him so he couldve used it in the lightsaber battle easily.

another requirement for Yodas counter: it would have to be very very fast to stop a quick downstroke like that from Dooku. and yoda wasnt even visible yet, he was still around the corner. in my opinion theres just no way that Yoda couldve stopped Dooku from killing Anakin. no way at all.




your second explanation is far more believable and i suppose you forced me to agree. i know id be scared and running if Yoda was that close to me. and after careful watching Yoda only put his lightsaber down after Dooku turned to run, he knew that that threat was done. you were right.



as for the explanation bout the sales pitch, well thats possible but i doubt it. the jedi wouldnt take apart the senate. they simply cant. i dont think that Dooku's word means much to them anyways. and for that old storyline thing: im inclined to believe nothing that GL wrote way back then. i mean luke was originally going to be a frickin GIRL! hes changed his mind so many times that id be surprised if he did use anything like his old story. read the original script for EP3 and laugh at how impossible that would be to work with the setup now. times change, ideas change to suit the market, and GL changes too.

im interested to hear your thoughts and thanks for keeping this reasonable and not turning it into a "you're stupid you're so wrong" type arguement.

Old Rep Knight
11-25-2002, 06:07 PM
This is a long thread to read through. My only point to point out here is this.

Yoda trained Dooku. Dooku trained Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon trained Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan trained Anakin. It's a direct line between them all. Remember in TESB Obi-Wan tells look to go to Dagobah to seek out the Jedi Master that instructed him, Yoda. Basically Obi-Wan was instructed by Yoda because Qui-Gon and Dooku had been. And as Obi-Wan is fond of stating, it all depends on your point of view. His point of view, in terms of Luke, is telling him the remaining Jedi in the galaxy, Yoda, was his instructor to give Luke confidence about Yoda (since he would have no idea how great Yoda used to be, and really still is).

Anyway, keep in mind who trained who.

Jedi_Monk
11-25-2002, 06:11 PM
as for your first explanation, that Yoda couldve stopped Dooku from killing Anakin well i dont think he could. and if he could then with what? the only things that could possibly stop Dooku from doing that that Yoda would hesitate to use later in the fight are things that would kill Dooku. if Yoda knew how to stun the ol count then he wouldve used it in the battle
Like I said, I believe that Jedi would use the least amount of Force possible to accomplish their goals. Yoda was confident that he could take Dooku, and was basically never on the defense throughout that whole fight, never pressed sufficiently--so why would have have to pull out the big guns?

another requirement for Yodas counter: it would have to be very very fast to stop a quick downstroke like that from Dooku. and yoda wasnt even visible yet, he was still around the corner. in my opinion theres just no way that Yoda couldve stopped Dooku from killing Anakin. no way at all.
Anakin jumped about fifty feet to put his lightsaber in the way of Dooku's before he killed Obi-Wan... and Anakin's only been training as a Jedi 10 years and didn't even have the basic training that would, under normal circumstances, have been taught to him by Yoda before he was taken as a Padawan Learner. Plus, you have to acknowledge that Jedi can read thoughts, or at least intentions... "I sense much fear in you..." and so on. If Yoda had sensed that Dooku was going to kill Anakin, he would've gotten there a lot quicker. But Dooku stopped what he was doing and turned to await Yoda's arrival, probably knowing that it would be safer.

I've never read that Episode III script... I've heard that it was written by George Lucas, but there are a lot of things out there that claimed to have been written by him. Anyway, Lucas does go back to these early drafts sometimes. The term Padawan (used in the same way as it's used in the Prequels, at that), the name Valorum and Cliegg can all be found in The Adventures of Luke Starkiller. Anyway, we won't know one way or the other until SW3's up on the big screen, I was just offering that senaro as another way that Dooku's offer could be interpreted, since you said that you couldn't imagine any other way ;)

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Darth Talliusc
11-25-2002, 07:33 PM
thanks, you've given me much to think about. and now that i look back, i cant prove that the draft i read was actually BY GL so maybe im even more wrong then i thought.

in my opinion Yoda is smart enough to know a Dooku alive and well is a Dooku thats going to tear the galaxy apart. Yoda shouldve taken the risk and used anything and everything he had to stop Dooku. maybe you're right and Yoda really wouldve stopped Dooku from killing Anakin but i just think that the fact we didnt see anything that big from Yoda means he doesnt have it in him.

as for yoda being on the offense the whole fight, well it may seem that way but he did pull back and retreat a fair bit. that bounce off the ships side for one was definitely not an offensive move on Yoda's part.

and as for Yoda being able to move that fast because Anakin got under Dooku's blade from 50 feet away brings up a new arguement for me.

if Anakin can move that quickly then why couldnt Dooku *an acknowledged master at the jedi arts* move quicker? if a Padawan can jump that fast then shouldnt a master be able to cut a little bit faster as he had much less area to cover and much more precise saber swipes?

granted jedi can move very very quickly but i dont think that means that they can move faster then Dooku, hes quite the powerful man and the force is very strong in him.


so i wonder: did Dooku lower his saber slowly on Obi-wan because he KNEW that anakin would come for the rescue? other then establishing himself as an enemy of the jedi i cant see why he'd do this but i guess i cant understand the mind of a warwaging count who'll stand up to yoda.

that seems a bit farfetched to me but i think that ppl heading into ESB with no knowledge of whats to come would scoff at the thought of Luke being Vaders son too. we wont know until ep3 but i for one think that there is more to Dooku then a crusty old villain who dies in ep3.

ET Warrior
11-25-2002, 10:17 PM
Dooku didn't really drop his saber on obi wan very slowly, he held it up for a bit, to dramatize it, because at heart dooku seems to cherish an older, more dramatic style of fighting, so he wanted his coupe de grace to be very dramatic and have obiwan KNOW that he was done and going to die. Once he started the down swing he swung quickly. I dont think Dooku has any intention of betraying sidious for the jedi. He did after all order the massacre of nearly 200 of them on geonosis, and were it not for the republic troops they all would have been dead.

And I think that Dooku's purpose was to cause the jedi to mistrust the senate, and eventually bring the entire republic against them, just as jedi_monk said.

Darth Talliusc
11-25-2002, 11:48 PM
you may notice i never said Dooku would betray sidious to the jedi, i only said he may betray sidious in general. i dont think he likes the jedi order at all, i mean he left them and considers himself better then the whole stinkin temple! i think that Dooku wants the whole galaxy, and while sidious is playing off the seperatists against the republic Dooku is playing off the jedi against the droids and Sidious. Dooku is greedy and he thinks he can have it all.............. too bad we know he doesnt get it :D

Darth Ferretus
11-26-2002, 03:49 AM
Hey man, I think youre so wrong. Any way, WHO CARES! http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:JujM9v3LgHwC:www.galacticbrick.com/pics/nose_saber2.jpg
Darth Tyrannus is a Sith, so that's that.
SNIFF MY SKIDS!! :mad: :jawa :ewok: :evanpiel: :bdroid2: :biggs: :bdroid2: :biggs:

Darth Ferretus
11-26-2002, 03:53 AM
Hell o JEDI DIE!!!!

DIE LUKE SKYWALKER!!!

PS. WHAT IS THE POINT IN BUILDING A BIG TUNNEL TO THE CORE OF THE DEATH STAR, JUST SO IT CAN BE DESTROYED AGAIN!!!

Darth Ferretus
11-26-2002, 03:56 AM
Hell o JEDI DIE!!!!

DIE LUKE SKYWALKER!!!

PS. WHAT IS THE POINT IN BUILDING A BIG TUNNEL TO THE CORE OF THE DEATH STAR, JUST SO IT CAN BE DESTROYED AGAIN!!!
:deathstar :deathstar
:deathii: :deathii: :dev11: :explode: :lsduel:

http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/eyh5/PageRef/starwars/death-star.jpg

:saberr:

SNIFF CHEWBACCA'S FURRY BEHIND!!

Darth Groovy
11-26-2002, 04:55 AM
Three posts in one thread and none of them amount to any tangible sense of worth. I got my eye on you now buddy. Consider this your first warning. :rolleyes:

GonkH8er
11-26-2002, 05:21 AM
warned.

Breton
11-27-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Darth Talliusc
this is actually very funny. i made a thread on this topic a while back at the swamp and got nothing but flames in return. so i shut my mouth. i agree with your theory completely and i ahve some evidence to add


first: dooku couldve chopped anakin quite easily when yoda walked in but he didnt, he turned and started talking. now dooku;s not an idiot he couldve finished anakin right there and pissed yoda off, this wouldve disrupted yoda's concentration and allowed dooku to do better in the fight.


second: when dooku takes down the pillar to crush obi/anakin he couldve easily attacked yoda onc


e more but hes content to let everybody live... why? when he couldve killed them all... or at least 1 of em.


third: what could he gain from that sales pitch to obi-wan? his aid in destroying the sith and thats it. if obi-wan agreed then we wouldnt have to worry bout sid imo. but if dooku knew he'd be turned and down and was acting from pure evil then what could he gain? i cant see anything. that scene reminds me of ep5 when vader offers to help luke kill the emperor and then rule the galaxy. he was serious then and dooku was serious in ep2.


dooku gave obi-wan the chacne to back down and let him leave geonosis but he was pushed into fighting. he couldnt really help it. he played quite defensively trying to incapacitate the jedi so he could leave.


we all know that tyranus hired jango ten years before ep2. which was the time of ep1 and the resurgence of the sith into the known galaxy.

we know that dooku can take pretty much any jedi. i mean he handed anakin AND obi-wan their asses and still had enough fight left to beat yoda. sure he didnt kill yoda but he got what he wanted. if the best of the jedi cant take Dooku then who will? simple only a dark lord of the sith could do that. imo it will be either sid who kills him or more likely anakin when hes goin darkside. Sidious wants Anakin to be his right hand, hes simply got more potential then Dooku does. but you cant have 2 apprentices thats the sith rule only 2 shall there ever be. so sid needs to be rid of Dooku to take Anakin under his wing.



(damn, I hate it when people are saying exactly what I was going to say;) )

However, you forgot some, when the Jedi are fighting a losing battle against the battle droids on the arena, Dooku stops the battle droids and give the Jedi a chance to surrender. Also, if Dooku wanted Padme, Anakin and Obi-Wan dead right away, why did he want to "execute" them, giving them a chance to escape? I mean, any Jedi would be able to handle an oversized bug, even without lightsaber.

You can't deny the fact that Dooku still have some good in him, even though he is a sith padawan. He used to be one of the greatest Jedi in the galaxy (after all, he trained Qui-Gon;) ), and it is unlikely that one such shall turn completely dark. Just take a look at all the other famous movie siths. Darth Sidious supposedly found out about the force and the dark side on his own, Darth Maul was never trained as a Jedi, only as a Sith, also we don't even know if Anakin even was a Jedi before he became sith.

Jedi_Monk
11-27-2002, 07:02 PM
However, you forgot some, when the Jedi are fighting a losing battle against the battle droids on the arena, Dooku stops the battle droids and give the Jedi a chance to surrender. Think about it this way: What if the Jedi had surrendered? What would the reaction have been on Coruscant? They would be traitors to the Republic, and they were the leaders of the Jedi, the brightest and the best. Their surrendering would have given an excuse for the Jedi purge to begin immediately!

Also, if Dooku wanted Padme, Anakin and Obi-Wan dead right away, why did he want to "execute" them, giving them a chance to escape? I mean, any Jedi would be able to handle an oversized bug, even without lightsaber.
Wasn't that just the way they executed people on Geonosis? The Geonosians were, for the most part, a slave race under their ruling caste... the executions in the arena were their bread and circuses, just like in ancient Rome. Remember, Dooku had all those droids as back up incase the creatures couldn't do the job. Besides, he was also partially using Padme, Obi-Wan and Anakin as bait for the Jedi and the Clone Army so that the war could begin, and dead bait doesn't work as well as live bait.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Breton
11-27-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk


Wasn't that just the way they executed people on Geonosis? The Geonosians were, for the most part, a slave race under their ruling caste... the executions in the arena were their bread and circuses, just like in ancient Rome. Remember, Dooku had all those droids as back up incase the creatures couldn't do the job. Besides, he was also partially using Padme, Obi-Wan and Anakin as bait for the Jedi and the Clone Army so that the war could begin, and dead bait doesn't work as well as live bait.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

It was important for Dooku to get them dead, especially Padme, if he had asked Jango to shoot them right away, he would, and they would be dead, Dokku would have had 3 preblems less, and since the Jedi din't know they were dead, they might still have shown up.

JediNyt
11-27-2002, 08:58 PM
I dont think Dooku would care if they died or not. What was important to him was getting the war started.

Dragonlancer
11-27-2002, 10:21 PM
Let me just say one thing, thanks guys for keeping this an interesting thread and posting interesting opinions that are staying on topic :D

That said, let me make something about my theory clear. At this point Dooku has no intention of betraying Sidious. I'm not sure why, there are a number of things that could happen. He could decide that the situation was getting far out of hand. He could realize that Sidious was more corrupt then he had currently realized, who knows? My point is that LATER, he will betray him. Right now he has no intention of doing this.

AlphaBlade
11-28-2002, 09:05 AM
I agree with Dragonlancer, I think Dooku is pretty setadfast to the dark side at this point in time.
I also think that Dooku had no real intention of killing either Anikan or Obi, Sideous had a plan for all of them. Dooku knew that Aniken wouldn't let his master die, and it also instilled some rage in him, which is what Sideous wants.

Just my 2 cents...

JediNyt
11-28-2002, 03:17 PM
He put Ani out of commission and was gonna kill Obi. He didnt know Ani would jump in just in time. Its obvious. Like I said he didnt care if they died or not. But Obi tried to stop him so he was gonna kill him then.

Breton
11-28-2002, 06:22 PM
I also think that Dooku had no real intention of killing either Anikan or Obi, Sideous had a plan for all of them. Dooku knew that Aniken wouldn't let his master die, and it also instilled some rage in him, which is what Sideous wants.

Err.....if he had known that Sidious' plan was to throw him away to replace him for some spoiled Jedi padawan, he would defidently have killed Anakin.

Legacy_Of_Sith
11-28-2002, 08:22 PM
I seroiusly doubt that Dooku isn't fully commited to the Sith. The Sith are manipulators and deceivers. No exceptions. Keep in mind there are time constraints, so Dooku explaining why he turned on Sidious would chew up a few too many minutes. Completely unnecessary for a betrayal in the movie, in my opinion.

Kain
11-28-2002, 09:37 PM
Okay, heres wuts probably gonna happen cuz its so obvious that Geoge Lucas is gonna screw it up by doin it...

Anakin and Padme' are married, blah blah blah. Dooku is sent to kill Padame'. He does while Annie watches. Annie gets mad, kills Dooku, then goes on a psychotic rampage tryin to find Sidious, but when he does, Sidious turns him Darkside and Annie purges the Jedi *Mace Windu dies first cuz the black guy always dies first*. Then when he gets to ObiWan, they fight and its all ooooo and ahhhhhh, whatever, before ObiWan wins.


And one more thing, does anyone notice how in Episode 2, the fight between Anakin and Dooku is alot like in Empire when Luke faught Vader? Just a thought...

BobaJango
12-12-2002, 12:55 AM
QUOTES:
Yoda: The Darkside clouds everything. :yoda:
Yoda: Joined the darkside, Dooku has. Deception are his ways now. :yoda:

So in my opinion, Dooku was tempting Obi Wan into a lie. Did you see the deleted sceens where Dooku was tempting Padme as well?

:fett: :jango:

Wüstenfuchs
12-12-2002, 05:44 PM
nononononono please...come on...you are forgetting the TRUE NATURE of the sith...they deceive, they betray, they lie. DARTH TYRANUS isn't different. And in the will to convert jedi, they sometimes abandon possible killing instincts. Remember The Empire Strikes Back? Vader didn't kill Luke, even when he could, willing to convert his son to the dark side. Sith are interested into show their superiority to the Jedi. Some ,even being learners, can do that by killing Jedi masters; some can use verbal strategies. Count Dooku is the second one. A damn good one, let's admit. :jango:

Pad
12-12-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by MydnightPsion
Anakin and Padme' are married, blah blah blah. Dooku is sent to kill Padame'. He does while Annie watches. Annie gets mad, kills Dooku, ...

hmm, our beloved padme wont be killed by dooku i presume. obi will take her into hiding as ani is goin to the dark side. he will be told dooku killed padme and so kills dooku to complete his last step to the dark side.

and although dooku is a sith i dont think hes completely evil.
he could have killed yoda, anakin and obi but he didnt. ;)

boinga1
12-12-2002, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Padanime


hmm, our beloved padme wont be killed by dooku i presume. obi will take her into hiding as ani is goin to the dark side. he will be told dooku killed padme and so kills dooku to complete his last step to the dark side.

and although dooku is a sith i dont think hes completely evil.
he could have killed yoda, anakin and obi but he didnt. ;)

How could Dooku have killed yoda? And he did try to kill Obi but Ani got in the way. I think he only spared Ani cuz either:
1) He hoped to convert him later
2)He sensed Yoda coming and was focusing on gathering the Force to himself.

Kain
12-12-2002, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Padanime


hmm, our beloved padme wont be killed by dooku i presume. obi will take her into hiding as ani is goin to the dark side. he will be told dooku killed padme and so kills dooku to complete his last step to the dark side.

and although dooku is a sith i dont think hes completely evil.
he could have killed yoda, anakin and obi but he didnt. ;)


what part of leia saying 'she died when i was very young' when luke asked about her real mother...wait...nevermind...SEE!!! shut up. i give up

ET Warrior
12-12-2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Padanime


hmm, our beloved padme wont be killed by dooku i presume. obi will take her into hiding as ani is goin to the dark side. he will be told dooku killed padme and so kills dooku to complete his last step to the dark side.

and although dooku is a sith i dont think hes completely evil.
he could have killed yoda, anakin and obi but he didnt. ;)

Dooku could not have killed yoda silly, yoda made him run away like a little school girl. And as Boinga pointed out he DID try to kill obiwan. And he might have tried to kill anakin if yoda wouldn't have showed up.
And he was going to kill all 200 jedi on geonosis. He is a BAD man.

Emon
12-13-2002, 11:24 PM
It's more likely that once Anakin falls to the dark side, Palpy knowing that he's much more powerful than Dooku, will have him fight and kill Dooku and take Dooku's place at his side.