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View Full Version : An insight into Episode 3!


leXX
11-24-2002, 06:31 PM
After watching the special features disc of the AOTC DVD, I noticed a small part where George is questioned as to why he is filming part of Ep3 in Tunisia now (now being while they are filming Ani and Padme's visit to Cliegg Lars home). This started me thinking as to what scene they were filming and then it became obvious.

We all know that Luke is bought up by his Uncle Owen Lars, so we know that at some point, Luke is bought to Owen Lars for his protection and to be hidden from Anakin/Vader. After reading about Owen on StarWars.com, it says that Obi Wan brings Luke to him and that Owen keeps the truth about his father from him because of his dislike for the Jedi.

After doing some additional research on StarWars.com, this leads me to conclude that the scenes from Ep3 are as follows:

Padme has given birth to twins, Leia and Luke, but because Anakin has turned to the darkside Obi-Wan and Padme decide to hide the twins from him.

Obi asks Bail Organa to to look after Padme and Leia and he sends them to Alderaan where Leia is adopted into the Royal Family.

During the Clone Wars, Organa befriended General Obi-Wan Kenobi, and the revered Jedi Knight served him well in that terrible conflict. When Kenobi's apprentice, Anakin Skywalker, succumbed to the dark side, Kenobi sent Skywalker's lover, Padmé Amidala, to Organa for hiding. Amidala hid one of her twin offspring in the high court of Alderaan, and this child, Leia Organa, was adopted into the Royal Family.

Obi then goes to Tatooine and tells Owen about Anakins fall to the Darkside and asks him to take care of Luke for him.

Complicating this simple life was his nephew. At the behest of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Owen and Beru were made the wards of Luke Skywalker, the son of Owen's stepbrother, Anakin. Lingering resentment over the actions of Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi would color Owen's opinions for years.

Obi then goes into hiding on Tatooine.

Obi-Wan was instrumental in hiding Anakin's offspring, so that neither the Dark Lord, nor his master, the Emperor Palpatine, knew of their whereabouts. He took the young boy, Luke, to live with Owen and Beru Lars, moisture farmers on Tatooine.The young girl, Leia, was taken to Viceroy Bail Organa of Alderaan, whom Obi-Wan had served during the Clone Wars.

So there we have it, we at least know part of Episode 3 for certain. I know a lot of you have already come to this conclusion but I am writing this for those who havn't read StarWars.com in detail and to get the events correct and exact in my head.

lukeiamyourdad
11-24-2002, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by leXX
So there we have it, we at least know part of Episode 3 for certain. I know a lot of you have already come to this conclusion but I am writing this for those who havn't read StarWars.com in detail and to get the events correct and exact in my head.

Thanks man. But I did expected that(if it really happens).

leXX
11-24-2002, 06:47 PM
I understand most of it is EU but it makes perfect sense to me.

lukeiamyourdad
11-24-2002, 06:54 PM
well you can't say it's EU. Who knows what happens in Ep3(except God and George)?

leXX
11-24-2002, 07:08 PM
Dude, do you know what EU means? Anyway, I just went back to check if any of those quotes are in the EU section and they are not, they are in the character profiles for Ep2 which means that those events are FACT, they do happen!

lukeiamyourdad
11-24-2002, 07:10 PM
I do know what EU means!

I know that they are facts. The only thing we don't really know is if we are gonna see it in ep3(the movie not what's behind).

leXX
11-24-2002, 07:19 PM
Why wouldn't we see it? I always thought that what is written as foresight on StarWars.com are events that will happen for certain and we already know that there will be a scene at Cliegg Lars home in Ep3:

After watching the special features disc of the AOTC DVD, I noticed a small part where George is questioned as to why he is filming part of Ep3 in Tunisia now (now being while they are filming Ani and Padme's visit to Cliegg Lars home). This started me thinking as to what scene they were filming and then it became obvious.

Ratmjedi
11-24-2002, 07:24 PM
I always said that even before EP II.
leXX is also a girl not a guy(dude). ;)
:lsduel: :duel:

leXX
11-24-2002, 07:27 PM
Yeah me2, if you read my thoughts on Ep3 in a thread way back when. ;)

Another thing, we know that there is a big duel between Obi and Ani just before those events. That is one duel I am looking forward to enormously.

Sustaining grievous injuries at the hands of his former master, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Vader required cybernetic enhancements and replacements to sustain him. His pure innocent self seemingly lost forever, Darth Vader cast a dark pall over the galaxy, as he was one of the foremost agents responsible for the elimination of the Jedi order.

JediNyt
11-24-2002, 10:43 PM
You beat me to it LeXX! I was gonna post this thread myself.;) I watched that part of The making of Ep2 on sw.com before ep2 was released in theaters. It was pretty obvious what scene he was gonna do.:) Thx for posting this anyway. Now more people will know.

Darth Talliusc
11-24-2002, 11:12 PM
good interpretation lexx. us hardcore EU readers came to that conclusion a while back but kudos all the same. i cant remember which book it came up in but somebody's view was that Obi was setting a trap for Vader. i mean he hid Luke in the hood that Vader knows all too well, luke applied to the Imperial academy under the name "SKYWALKER" and hes spitting distance from the guy who chucked Anakin into a pit of lava and made him wear that damn suit in the first place.

thats just one interpretation and i doubt that it will happen simply because Obi isnt that coldhearted but its still fun to think on.

Jedi_Monk
11-25-2002, 12:11 AM
Personally, I think that something happens to Obi-Wan to make him give Luke to Owen and Beru. We know that Jedi are supposed to start training when they're very young--if possible, before they can grow attatched to their parents. So why would Obi-Wan give Luke to the Larses, if he intended to train Luke? I think that Obi-Wan gives Luke to Owen and Beru for safe keeping while he takes care of some unfinished business (duel with Anakin?), and when he comes back for Luke, Owen refuses to give him up.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Andy867
11-25-2002, 12:50 AM
After reading certain web sites, here is what has been proven fact as to what to expect in Episode 3:

"- ObiWan and Anakin will fight
- The Emperor will take control of the galaxy
- Anakin will become Dartth Vader
- Yoda will end up stranded on Dagobah
- Obi Wan Kenobi will change his name to "Ben" and become a hermit on Tatooine."

Rick McCallum also notes that there will be yet ANOTHER showcase of spectacular lightsaber battles.

"...Rick McCallum expects that Episode III will again showcase spectacular lightsaber battles. "Im not only expecting it, I'm looking forward to it."

He demurs when asked how Lucas and stunt coordinator Nick Gillard could possibly top the Jedi fight scenes in Attack of the Clones, but reminds us, "Episode III is the last one, so no-holds barred now."

"James Earl Jones to Voice Darth Vader Again at ORT Toronto..."

STARLOG: What about Boba Fett?
LUCAS: “Boba WILL be in Episode III, but his role definitely won’t be larger. He’s in a transition period of becoming a bounty hunter. The next film takes place two or three years later, so Boba would only be 13 and still wouldn’t fit in the suit." WHich means that there is a 99.9% Chance that he won't kill Mace Windu... SORRY!!! But Mace Windu IS going to die, and according to my research, it will be a very spectacular death. "Samuel L. Jackson talks about his exit in EP3, "I don't think I'm going out like some, some girl. I gotta go down, you know, in a blaze of glory. It (EP3) will lead perfectly into what we know as, you know, the original."

E! Daily News interviewed Star Wars creator George Lucas and finally got an answer on the mystery surrounding what R2-D2 and C-3PO should and shouldn't remember of their adventures in the prequels. "Well, one, his brains have, his memory system has been erased and so has R2's. So, they don't remember anything from the first trilogy. I'm telling you something from Episode III, but I shouldn't be telling you that, but I think most of the fans already know that." So, C3PO and R2 both get their memory chips erased somehow.


"Nov 10, 2002; Italian newspaper reports on local cameramna shooting volcano "footage" for Ep3"


More to come!!!

teutonicknight
11-25-2002, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
After reading certain web sites, here is what has been proven fact as to what to expect in Episode 3:

"- ObiWan and Anakin will fight
- The Emperor will take control of the galaxy
- Anakin will become Dartth Vader
- Yoda will end up stranded on Dagobah
- Obi Wan Kenobi will change his name to "Ben" and become a hermit on Tatooine."

Is it just me, or does all this seem kinda too much for one movie.... I mean: All of this in 2 hours? :confused:

JediNyt
11-25-2002, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by Andy867


"Nov 10, 2002; Italian newspaper reports on local cameramna shooting volcano "footage" for Ep3"


Now of course this still doesnt mean Anis gonna fall in lava. Thats just ridiculous. If this volcano footage is for the duel then Ani may fall near the lava and get his lungs messed.

leXX
11-25-2002, 08:11 AM
I have a feeling all this volcano duel stuff is rubbish! It just doesn't seem very StarWarsish if you know what I mean.

teutonicknight - Is it just me, or does all this seem kinda too much for one movie.... I mean: All of this in 2 hours?

I don't think it is too much for one movie, after all look how much they managed to fit into Ep2. I think Ep3 will be longer than Ep2 aswell.

Jedi_Monk - Personally, I think that something happens to Obi-Wan to make him give Luke to Owen and Beru. We know that Jedi are supposed to start training when they're very young--if possible, before they can grow attatched to their parents. So why would Obi-Wan give Luke to the Larses, if he intended to train Luke? I think that Obi-Wan gives Luke to Owen and Beru for safe keeping while he takes care of some unfinished business (duel with Anakin?), and when he comes back for Luke, Owen refuses to give him up.

I don't think Obi has training in mind for Luke at all. He just want's to keep him hidden from Vader and Palpatine. He only happened to cross paths with Luke when he was older and began his training then, he didn't go looking for him even though he was on the same planet and not too far away from where he lived. If he really wanted to train Luke, he would of started his training a lot ealier.

Andy867
11-25-2002, 11:52 AM
Well, all of my above posted have been confirmed to have been true, according to LucasFilms. So A) Obi-wan and Anakin do fight, B)Lucasfilms hired an Italian film group, supposedly the best in Italy for shooting HD video, which the company was told to shoot film of the volcano. So, I don't think we can expect less than a spectacular yet tragic event near the end of Episode 3. There is word the James Earl Jones will have part of about 5 minutes where you hear Vader's voice. But then you have to conside the cut that is seen on Anakin/Vader's head at the end of ROTJ. And also, only burn marks could have scorched every inch of hair off his head, sure his face is pale from not being tanned, but it could also be blamed by the lava. So many things to ponder, so much/little time to ponder at it.

You do have to consider that the chance of Obi just happen to cross paths with Luke again is more than coincidental. Look at Anakin's meeting with Qui-gon Jinn. Jinn pointed out there that their meeting was more than a coincidence. And how nothign happens by chance with the Force. So Obi is meant to train Luke, he just doesn't know it yet.

LexX -> You have to consider the fact that George Lucas and the rest of the Lucasfilms crew have all stated that this will be the darkest of all the films and that the very end of the movie will be very tragic. Rick McCallum even said "Don't expect a happy ending" in this movie.

Jedi_Monk
11-25-2002, 01:07 PM
I don't think Obi has training in mind for Luke at all. He just want's to keep him hidden from Vader and Palpatine. He only happened to cross paths with Luke when he was older and began his training then, he didn't go looking for him even though he was on the same planet and not too far away from where he lived. If he really wanted to train Luke, he would of started his training a lot ealier
Why wouldn't Obi-Wan want to train Luke? I mean, for all he knows he's the last Jedi (maybe only knew about Yoda still being out there by being a part of the Unifying Force), and wouldn't you think that he would want to keep the Order and its traditions alive?

Obi-Wan has tried to make contact with Luke before... remember what he told Luke when he finally gave him Anakin's lightsaber, "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it." There are also some references in the audio drama (EU, I know, but fairly close EU for the most part) to Owen running Ben off whenever he came to the homestead. He tells Luke Obi-Wan is no more than a "crazy wizard" and refuses to talk about him.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

leXX
11-25-2002, 01:54 PM
"Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it."

Ah, I had totally forgot he said that! With that in mind, I think your insight into what happens is spot on. What is puzzling me now is what Anakin does just after the twins are born!

Pad
11-25-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by leXX
What is puzzling me now is what Anakin does just after the twins are born!
i think he doesnt know about the twins, otherwise he would have known about leia and seeing rotj we know thats not true.

Andy867
11-25-2002, 03:01 PM
My best guess is that
A) Anakin knows that Padme is pregnant, but
B) He doesn't know she is going to have twins.

That's why he knows Luke is his son, but doesn't suspect that Leia is his daughter, even when confronted in ANH. If not suspecting, he wouldn't have any reason not to change his attitude towards her.

Darth Talliusc
11-25-2002, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
- Yoda will end up stranded on Dagobah




sorry buddy, uh uh. if he were stranded then how the heck could Obi-wan know he was there? there must be some form of communication between them for Obi to know where yoda's hut is. if they can communicate then yoda can request a ride off that rock.

While the EU explanation is rather cool id bet money that it wont be the actual reason in the movie. however if that WERE true then yoda would be hiding there because hes undetectable through the force there.

Yoda will admit defeat to Obi-wan and tell him that they can do no more good for the republic. that they must now fend for themselves and try to raise a new fighter to lead the galaxy out of the dark ages to come.

Jedi_Monk
11-25-2002, 06:27 PM
sorry buddy, uh uh. if he were stranded then how the heck could Obi-wan know he was there? there must be some form of communication between them for Obi to know where yoda's hut is. if they can communicate then yoda can request a ride off that rock.
Well... Obi-Wan was dead at the time he told Luke to, "Go to the Dagobah system," etc., and a part of the Unifying Force. He might not have known where Yoda was--or even whether he was even still alive--during his life.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

lukeiamyourdad
11-25-2002, 06:28 PM
leXX-Sorry didn't know.

I think that Yoda, after the Jedi Order being beaten, foresaw the arrival of a new savior(Luke). So they went into hiding and waited the good time to train Luke.

leXX
11-26-2002, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
My best guess is that
A) Anakin knows that Padme is pregnant, but
B) He doesn't know she is going to have twins.

That's why he knows Luke is his son, but doesn't suspect that Leia is his daughter, even when confronted in ANH. If not suspecting, he wouldn't have any reason not to change his attitude towards her.

I think so too. Also he must have some sort of conversation with Obi about Luke saying 'I want him to be a Jedi like myself and to have my old lightsaber' etc etc.

Another thing that has always puzzled me, if the force is so strong and it is like a 6th sense, why didn't Vader know Leia was his daughter, after all, he did have enough contact with her?!

Andy867
11-26-2002, 09:36 AM
That's the strange part, but I think its because Leia grew up in a different household and that the force wasn't as strong with her, just enough for Luke to contact her in TESB. Plus, Vader is only under the impression that he was to have a son, not a son & daughter. So, basically, once he had that knowledge, he blocked everything out, and focused primarily on Luke. To him, Leia was just another member of the Rebel Alliance.

Kryllith
11-26-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by leXX
Another thing that has always puzzled me, if the force is so strong and it is like a 6th sense, why didn't Vader know Leia was his daughter, after all, he did have enough contact with her?!
My guess is that it's relatively undetectable unless a person is actively using it. Leia herself didn't know she had the ability to use the Force, so she never used it (except perhaps unconciously).

Kryllith

lukeiamyourdad
11-26-2002, 07:12 PM
But Leia didn't know she could use the force in ESB and Luke could still contact her.

Jedi_Monk
11-26-2002, 08:10 PM
Luke kept his dad's last name--which would probably thow out some nice warning bells for Vader if (when) he found out who destroyed the Death Star. He sensed that Luke could use the Force, and was strong in the Force, an indication of his parentage... and he probably ultimately found out who the Jawas had sold the droids to. So, we have someone named Skywalker, who is strong in the Force, who was living with his brother-in-law. And by the time he drops the bomb, he's seen that Luke is using his old lightsaber.

I don't think that Vader sensed that Luke was his son... I think it took some detective work on his part. So why would he be able to sense that Leia was his daughter? And if he didn't suspect that she was his daughter, then why would he worry about torturing some Force-strong person? He'd killed plenty of them in the past.

Then again, you could argue that Vader sensed... something about Leia, because it was Vader who convinced Tarkin not to execute her immediately after it was discovered that there was no Rebel base on Dantooine.

Anyway... I don't think Anakin ever tells Obi-Wan, "give my son this lightsaber." Obi-Wan had a very loose definition of the "truth".

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Andy867
11-26-2002, 09:59 PM
Then why in ANH did Obi-wan say to Luke, "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle would never allow it..."

Someone just doesn't give something that personal to someone else unless there is an emotional attachment, like father and son.

PowerBroker
11-26-2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
Then why in ANH did Obi-wan say to Luke, "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle would never allow it..."

Someone just doesn't give something that personal to someone else unless there is an emotional attachment, like father and son.

Perhaps Obi-wan took Anakin's saber after he had critically injured him, and kept it for safe-keeping. Perhaps Obi-wan go ahold of the saber somehow and knew that the "good" Anakin would have wanted Luke to have it.

Jedi_Monk
11-26-2002, 11:28 PM
Perhaps Obi-wan took Anakin's saber after he had critically injured him, and kept it for safe-keeping. Perhaps Obi-wan go ahold of the saber somehow and knew that the "good" Anakin would have wanted Luke to have it.
That'd be my guess :D

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Ratmjedi
11-27-2002, 02:36 AM
Someone above said that maybe Leia was not strong in the Force but Luke says otherwise in EP VI when he is talking to Leia above in the trees on Endor "The Force is strong in my family, I have, My father has it, My......Sister has it."

Just being part of the Skywalker family she had a nice and high Midi-Chlorian count. She wasn't aware of it but maybe Vader was. She never used it in anyway. Qui-Gonn felt it in Anakin when they first crossed path so why couldn't Vader feel it in Leia?
:duel: :lsduel:

JediNyt
11-27-2002, 03:51 AM
Cause she never really used it. And you cant sense Midiclorians in a person but you can sense the Force if it is strong enough. Leia was not strong with it at the times she was near Vader.

leXX
11-27-2002, 05:08 AM
I didn't know the force had to go both ways! Surely if one person is strong with the force, that should be enough to sense things. Padme has no force powers to speak of but Anakin and Obi still 'sensed' she was in danger! Vader imo should have been able to sense Leia was his daughter.

DarthNoodles
11-27-2002, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by leXX
Vader imo should have been able to sense Leia was his daughter.

How?
Neither of them knew it. Vader didn't know he had a daughter so he wouldn't have been probing her mind for that, and she didn't know she was his daughter so she wouldn't have had those thoughts in her head had he been looking for them. Besides, he couldn't use a mind trick on her anyway to learn her parentage (if she did know) because she's not weak minded, he didn't learn where the base was by tricking her, so he shouldn't have been able to sense she was his daughter. Which narrows it down to hi having to sense her blood type and then knowing she was his daughter. Not likely.

Vader knew Luke was his son (or at least figured it out) because:
- Guy with last name Skywalker, who is strong in the force destroys Death Star. (big hint there)
- Stormtroopers would have reported back saying where the droids were sold tipping him off that something was up with the Lars' (maybe he ordered them to be killed when the stormies reported back).
- He knew he had a son (or at the very least, knew he had a child).

My opinion on the Anakin wanting Luke to have his lightsabre:
- while still a Jedi (or padawan, whatever), knowing Padme to be pregnant, expresses that he'd like his child to be a Jedi as well. Then he turns bad, Ovi ends up with his Sabre somehow and expresses Anakin's wishes to Luke.

Done and done...

leXX
11-27-2002, 09:55 AM
My point is, I always thought of the force as like a 6th sense whereby you get certain feelings about things. I know Vader had no idea he had a daughter, but I woulda thought he woulda got some sort of feeling from being around her. The bond between a parent and their children is very very strong indeed. It always struck me as kinda strange that he didn't get a 'vibe' when near her.

DarthNoodles
11-27-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by leXX
My point is, I always thought of the force as like a 6th sense whereby you get certain feelings about things. I know Vader had no idea he had a daughter, but I woulda thought he woulda got some sort of feeling from being around her. The bond between a parent and their children is very very strong indeed. It always struck me as kinda strange that he didn't get a 'vibe' when near her.

Sure but he had nothing to reference that vibe to.
Follow me here: He could sense when Obi Wan came around. "A feeling I have not felt since..." (or something like it). He know the vibe that Obi Wan put out. Now he may very well feel a 'vibe' from Leia put how does he know that's the 'vibe' you get when you're around you're daughter? He likely knew Leia had some inherent force abililties (very weak obviously) and probably would just attribute it to the 'vibe' she had.

JediNyt
11-27-2002, 01:44 PM
Well said Darth. We also need to remember that humans are intelligent and complicated beings. Like when Ani and Obi sensed the kouhuns near Padme' in ep2. They sensed more than one life form. Easy. Kouhuns are unintelligent simple lifeforms. They cant affect Force intuition in any way. All they had to do was sense a life form other than Padme's. Artoo didnt see them cause they were behind the bed. And I guess he didnt have lifeform sensers at the time. Or he just relied on the lazers on the ground.

Jedi_Monk
11-27-2002, 03:06 PM
. Qui-Gonn felt it in Anakin when they first crossed path so why couldn't Vader feel it in Leia?
I was just looking through the SW1 script... I don't really see any evidence that Qui-Gon sensed Anakin's power in the Force right off. In fact, Qui-Gon hardly gives him a second look in Watto's junk shop. Doesn't really think much of him after he saves Jar Jar, either. But it's when Anakin says that he can race pods that Qui-Gon starts to suspect that he can use the Force. Then, Shmi tells him that there was no father, which starts him thinking about prophesy and then he takes a blood sample for midichlorian testing (probably wouldn't have even bothered if there wasn't the suspicion going through him that this kid might be the one prophesied to bring balance to the Force).

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

darthweaver
11-30-2002, 10:32 AM
about yoda getting stranded on dagoboh. in the book heir to the empire, it explains why yoda was never found by vader on dagoboh. it says he tracked a dark jedi there and duelled him and killed him. (this left a dark mark on the place) and with yodas light side presence it balanaced it out and vader couldn't sence him. this fits in with episode 3 because yoda could track dooku or sidious here for some reason and duel, and kill them

i know it's Eu but it really does fit

Darth_Vader_27
12-01-2002, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by leXX

I don't think Obi has training in mind for Luke at all. He just want's to keep him hidden from Vader and Palpatine. He only happened to cross paths with Luke when he was older and began his training then, he didn't go looking for him even though he was on the same planet and not too far away from where he lived. If he really wanted to train Luke, he would of started his training a lot ealier.

if you have read the original novel for A New Hope written by lucas himself you know that Ben Kenobi did try to establish contact with luke on several occasions so we cannot say that ben didn't have it in mind to train luke to be a jedi so that the jedi line would not die with him and yoda

Darth_Vader_27
12-01-2002, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by darthweaver
about yoda getting stranded on dagoboh. in the book heir to the empire, it explains why yoda was never found by vader on dagoboh. it says he tracked a dark jedi there and duelled him and killed him. (this left a dark mark on the place) and with yodas light side presence it balanaced it out and vader couldn't sence him. this fits in with episode 3 because yoda could track dooku or sidious here for some reason and duel, and kill them

i know it's Eu but it really does fit

yoda can't kill darth sidious because darth sidious is palpatine but i do believe it is count dooku that he kills on dagobah whoelse could it be? there is not another sith lord except tyranus and sidious that we know of so that has to be the dark jedi that yoda kills on dagobah

leXX
12-02-2002, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by Darth_Vader_27


if you have read the original novel for A New Hope written by lucas himself you know that Ben Kenobi did try to establish contact with luke on several occasions so we cannot say that ben didn't have it in mind to train luke to be a jedi so that the jedi line would not die with him and yoda

You should read a bit further on and see that I have already discounted that ... ;)