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View Full Version : Why did Dooku have lightning and Vader didn't?


leXX
11-25-2002, 05:28 AM
What are your thoughts on this. Why did Dooku have force lightning and Vader didn't? They are both Lords after all!

Darth Groovy
11-25-2002, 06:41 AM
Hrm more on this yet to be revealed. Meditate on this I will.












[edit- Maul didnt have lightning either :eek: ]

Sarlacc Food
11-25-2002, 07:19 AM
becouse Vader chose GRIP and Dooku chose lightning :p

leXX
11-25-2002, 09:16 AM
There has to be more to it than a simple matter of choice! Is grip more powerful than lightning? I always thought lighting was more powerful and that is why Sidious used it. Surely Vader would use the most powerful force power if given a choice!

Andy867
11-25-2002, 01:27 PM
Well, it Depends upon the training. If Vader had no knowledge of the lightning, since he basically forgot nearly everything when he was Anakin, he might have not had knowledge. And with the clone wars, a lot of the jedi holocrons, which contained information on Jedi Force Powers being destroyed, there would be no record. So, it might have just been that the first time Vader saw Force Lightning was when he was watching Palpatine fry Luke.

Count Dooku 2
11-25-2002, 02:02 PM
Count Dooku had previous skill and experiance with the Force, from being a Jedi Master and all. Anakin, when he became Darth Vader, did not have much control over the Force, so basically the training started from scratch (with things like Throw and Grip). Dooku already had great knowledge of the sheer power behind the Force (plus his own teachings from the Sith Holocron in the Jedi Temple), and so was able to handle the more challenging powers like Lightning. The Count probably has the knowledge to use Force Grip, but didn't use it against the Jedi because Lightning seemed the more... destructive power to use.

Also, Darth Vader wears gloves, whereas the people who have used Lightning so far (Dooku and Palpatine) do not. Maybe a glove or material covering the hand can disrupt the flow of Lightning? Plus, Vader's right hand is mechanical, so surely Lightning would overload the circuitry?

leXX
11-25-2002, 02:59 PM
I'm liking the mechanical overload and the gloves idea. I don't think lightning would go down well with all his curcuitry and I don't see how he could use lightning while wearing gloves.

Kryllith
11-25-2002, 03:02 PM
Is there anything canonical that says Vader doesn't have lightning? He may very well know how to do it, but just chooses not to. Maybe choking people is more his style... or maybe lightning has a problem going through space while force choking doesn't. :)

Kryllith

Pad
11-25-2002, 03:43 PM
maybe it has something to do with their force speciality (as i call it). dooku was more specialised in lightnin and vader in grip. thats what i think.

Keiran Halcyon
11-25-2002, 04:00 PM
In the old trilogy, lightsaber duels barely had no use of the force, just telekinesis...

Darth Vader did not want to harm seriously Luke. Grip is more frightening for casual people, who are the ones Vader uses it with.

About the mechanical hand, well luke and Vader did use the force to take things to their hands so the force may not be influenced by mechanicals. Of course the shorcircuit thing is still feasible - That is why Vader died, isn't it?

And Vader DID choke people with a gloved hand...

Keiran Halcyon
11-25-2002, 04:05 PM
And anyway, Dooku has more 'knowledge of the FORCE' :)

He is twice the age as Darth Vader's and A jedi Master before becaming a Sith lord.

Andy867
11-25-2002, 04:17 PM
My question is whether or not Vader's left hand is mechnanical, or just decided to wear 2 gloves so that he matched. If he did have a normal hand/arm, he could have used lightning (if he knew of it and knew how to use it). Although, I don't see force lightning being the same kind of electrical current as lightning we see... Lightning that WE as people can see has enough power to light NYC for a whole year (according to a statistical survey) so for the lightning used in SW, I think it wouldn't have affected his circuitry. I thin Vader died because the Emperor used the force lightning on him, and force lightning is very fatal. And in Vader's condition, after losing his hand (again), he was in a weakened state, where as Luke was younger, healthier, and stronger. Any comments?

Pad
11-25-2002, 04:54 PM
his left hand wasnt mechanical, thats what i think.

and i believe vader died because he wanted to see lukes face true his real eyes. so he/luke removed his helmed which was optional to keep him alive and without that he died.

Old Rep Knight
11-25-2002, 06:29 PM
I like the idea that Vader was "overloaded" by the lightning from the Emperor. Can you believe this movie (ROTJ) has been out since the mid-80s and that is a point still debated? Really, I still have a hard time figuring out why Vader died just from removing his helmet or getting hit once with the force lightning. Luke took more than Vader and Anakin got knocked out for a bit by it in Ep II. Perhaps Ep III will have more lightning. It definitely was cool having Yoda be able to absorb the lightning though.

We all must know, given clues dropped in EpII and what we know of the original trilogy that Anakin, most likely at the hand of Obi-Wan, seriously gets carved up by a lightsaber to be so mechanical. I think he may very well have two mechanical hands/arms and could not use force lightning because of it. He was able to stop a blaster laser (Han solo, TESB) with his hand, but that's different.

PowerBroker
11-25-2002, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Old Rep Knight
He was able to stop a blaster laser (Han solo, TESB) with his hand, but that's different.

That was just the fire repelling off his steel armor.

As for how he died, Vader said himself that it was too late for him, and he would die with or without the mask. I speculate that the metal in his armor conducted a super charge of electricity into his body, far more than could be conducted by air. This was probably enough to kill him.

lukeiamyourdad
11-25-2002, 07:57 PM
I think vader could'nt do Lightning because he (probably) had two mechanical hands.

As for how Vader died, I agree with Andy. I also don't think it's regular electricity. It has something to do with the Force. Maybe it's like force grip just a lot more powerful.

Sivy
11-25-2002, 09:53 PM
well imo it was the lightning that killed vader, it messed up his breathing gear and the other devices that kept him alive. so it makes sense that vader couldn't use lightning.

the question i think needs answering is, if they could clone whole humans then surely they could clones body parts and vader could of had transplants instead.

boinga1
11-25-2002, 11:00 PM
Well, here's what the starwars.com databank has to say:

"Unable to watch anymore, Vader turned against his master. He grabbed a surprised Palpatine from behind, hoisted him above his head, and tossed his evil master down a bottomless reactor shaft. Vader was bombarded by the Emperor's Force lightning, mortally wounding him."

Plo_Koon_27
11-26-2002, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Old Rep Knight
I like the idea that Vader was "overloaded" by the lightning from the Emperor. Can you believe this movie (ROTJ) has been out since the mid-80s and that is a point still debated? Really, I still have a hard time figuring out why Vader died just from removing his helmet or getting hit once with the force lightning. Luke took more than Vader and Anakin got knocked out for a bit by it in Ep II. Perhaps Ep III will have more lightning. It definitely was cool having Yoda be able to absorb the lightning though.

We all must know, given clues dropped in EpII and what we know of the original trilogy that Anakin, most likely at the hand of Obi-Wan, seriously gets carved up by a lightsaber to be so mechanical. I think he may very well have two mechanical hands/arms and could not use force lightning because of it. He was able to stop a blaster laser (Han solo, TESB) with his hand, but that's different.

Star Wars Episode VI The Return of The Jedi has been out since 1982 and yes it is something that this subject is still debated exactly 20 years later. The mask is what kept Vader alive and without it is why he died so quick. He would have died anyway but not as quickly had he not had Luke take his helmet off. (I've watched all of the originals so many times I know them by heart) that's why when he said to Luke "Luke help me take this mask off so that I may look upon you with mine own eyes" Luke said to his father "But you'll die without it". Everything that you need to know about Darth Vaders suit and helmet are explained to a great degree in the original trilogy and yes it should be explained alot more and alot better in Episode III (I hope)

Taos
11-26-2002, 01:30 AM
I think with Darth Maul was the fact that he wasn't that strong with the dark side of the force.......meaning that he was a better swordsman and fighter then a user of the force.

The more I read on topics like this the more I'm starting to think how good of a sith Count Dooku is.....

JediNyt
11-26-2002, 02:07 AM
Vader still is better. Ya know the simplest explaination needs to be thought about. Vader just didnt have a need to use lightning, he just didnt feel like it. From the all the other explainations I think the best one is the mechanical hand and suit overloading.

Andy867
11-26-2002, 10:57 AM
But by that same logic, any lightsaber struck by force lightning may as well have to to be overloaded, because the lightsaber itself is just concentrated energy from crystals, which lightning can move through, and would overload the circuitry inside the lightsaber, but we all know that didn't happen with Obi-wan.

shukrallah
11-26-2002, 12:46 PM
Dooku shouldnt have used lightning that was palpatine's move
like vader and his grip:lightning

lukeiamyourdad
11-26-2002, 08:07 PM
well luke used force grip on those gamorrean guards.....

Ratmjedi
11-26-2002, 08:29 PM
I think that Vader did not use Lightning cause it was not his style like many people have said before me. I can also say that it was sloppy. I mean you really don't have to control it that much. It just fans out. With the Grip it is more precise. It must take more dicipline to use since no one else used it. I mean he choked people without him actually being at the location. He was very strong. The mechanical arm theory is very good as well. As for why he wore two gloves was because he had to seal his suit. He is in a whole suit so that is why he wore it like a NASA suit.

As for how he died. If you notice when Luke is fighting with him and then Vader is on the floor. Then Luke tosses his Lightsaber and talks to Palpatine. Vader is already breathing hard. You can tell that his breathing is not normal. It sound like his breathing is more heavier and harder to breath. Then when Palpatine is frying Luke with the Lightining you see Vader over Palpatine's shoulders. He is breathing heavily there also.
Then he picks up Palpatine and you can see that he is getting electricuted at the same time. Then afterwards he falls to the floor and Luke talks to him. Then there is the whole scene with him telling Luke to take his helmet off and the no you'll die dialogue. He was injured by Luke before Palpatine used the Lightning.
:lsduel: :duel:

JediNyt
11-26-2002, 10:44 PM
Of course he was injured. His hand got cut off and he was giving up.

Ratmjedi
11-26-2002, 11:42 PM
But why would his hand being cut off make him die. He was really more injured so that was why he had began to die. His hand had been cut off other times before and this one was a cybernetic one so it's like it would of killed him. Lukes was shot and he didn't get really injured by it. It was like a scratch or a little jolt of pain.
:duel: :lsduel:

Andy867
11-26-2002, 11:48 PM
I think that like the human body, the cybernetics of Vader's body were slowly wearing down and wearing out, hence his heavy breathing. An indication of a failing breathing unit. And even with his cybernetic hand, it was still attached to human flesh and human nerve, so of course it had to hurt like a.... yea. But also, It was after the Emperor said, Now.. You Die... that';s when Palpatine turned up the juice on the Force Lightning, so eventually when Vader hurled Palpatine over the edge, thats' what probably was the final blow to begin the end of Vader's existence

JediNyt
11-26-2002, 11:52 PM
He was injured not dying. The lightning is what fatally hurt him. If you had your hand but off youd be breathing harder. Look at how Luke felt and breathed when his hand was cut off. :duel: Btw when Anis arm is severed in AOTC he is also knocked unconsious by Dookus Force push and the shock of the injury. So thats why he didnt show pain then. But he did after he awoke.

Andy867
11-27-2002, 12:09 AM
Actually, I'd think it'd be more of traumatic shock then unconscious. I mean, wouldn't freak out if you lost nearly all your arm?!?

Taos
11-27-2002, 12:18 AM
Yeah, with the loss of blood....I'd probably pass out. O.O

Andy867
11-27-2002, 12:55 AM
well, what's weird Leemu Taos is that some lightsaber wounds cauterize the wounds, but some don't... I mean, look at Obi-wans slash to Darth Maul... completely cut in half, but no apparent loss of blood. but then look at like Dooku slashing Obi-wan's arm and leg, and when Obi-wan dismembered that criminal in ANH. There was blood there.

Ratmjedi
11-27-2002, 03:43 AM
well, what's weird Leemu Taos is that some lightsaber wounds cauterize the wounds, but some don't... I mean, look at Obi-wans slash to Darth Maul... completely cut in half, but no apparent loss of blood. but then look at like Dooku slashing Obi-wan's arm and leg, and when Obi-wan dismembered that criminal in ANH. There was blood there.

If you look closely when Obi-Wan cut's Maul in half you see a little red mist that is there after he is cut. If you also see when Vader cuts Luke's hand off there is no blood. The wound seems to be carterized too.
:lsduel: :duel:

JediNyt
11-27-2002, 04:38 AM
There is blood just not very much. The wound carterizes fast due to the extreme heat. It also depends on where your hit. When Obi cut Maul in half the blade of course went through the main artery in his torso (forgot what the vein is called). Most of the blood travels through that vein. Lots of blood, lots of pressure. So theres going to be blood when cut there. The wound then fully carterized and thats why there was no blood when he fell.

When Dooku cut Obi he just nicked him. He touched the blade to his arm and poked his leg. Small wounds, fast carterizing so no blood. When he took off Anis arm well I would think thered be a little bit of blood. There is a large vein in all limbs. But again maybe too small a wound. Same with Lukes hand.

But then theres the thing in ep4 where Obi severs the arm of that criminal and theres blood clearly. Again think about where he was hit. The top of the arm. There is a large artery/vein that travels through there. Ani was hit at the elbow where there is not a large artery. Is that right? Im no biologist. Afterall it is still a movie. We shouldnt dig too deap you know. It can make a person nuts.:nut: And weve all met those kind of people before havent we?:disaprove

Ratmjedi
11-27-2002, 05:24 AM
Yes we have. :D :p We don't want to turn into those people know do we JediNyt
:lsduel: :duel:

Sarlacc Food
11-27-2002, 10:48 AM
IN THE DARTH MAUL COMIC!

maul duals a nightsister:
N. do you know what i am?
M: a nightsister, A witchof Dathomir, skilled in the use of the darkside of the force.
M: you understand so little.
N: Do i? youve never faced my kind before.
M: youve never faced MINE!
N: we'll see.
*starting dual*
maul realy kick her ass... he is slising her sword in 2... (nightsister use weird swords, not lightsabers)
N: a nightsister is NEVER unarmed.
N: even you cant stand before force lightning.
N: and the power of the dark side...
M: nnng*in pain*
M:..you..know..NOTHING...of the dark side!!! :mad:
N: ho can you...resist... i know, i know what you must be.
M: *rises and cuting her in two...(just like obi wan did to him)

th end! :D

anyway earlier, darth maul uses grip on a guy.. a mon calmari!
so maul got grip but not lightning... :disaprove

leXX
11-27-2002, 10:50 AM
calmari - what is he, an alien squid? :D

Jedi_Monk
11-27-2002, 03:39 PM
calmari - what is he, an alien squid?
Admiral Ackbar is a mon calamarian... :D It's probably just one of those things... like Elan Sleazebaggano... where Lucas pulls something out of his arse and gives it to the people writing EU as kinda a joke. Notice nobody ever says Mon Calamari or Sleazebaggano in the movies ;)

Anyway, the thing with Ponda Baba... I'm pretty sure Lucas admitted that that was a mistake... then, I think he said something about maybe Baba's blood chemistry being different so it wouldn't cauterize or something ;) Anyway, I wonder if that scene could be reshot minus the gore for the edition to come out with the Prequels?

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

ET Warrior
11-27-2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk


Anyway, I wonder if that scene could be reshot minus the gore for the edition to come out with the Prequels?



I hope they do....that would make me happy.

JediNyt
11-27-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Sarlacc Food
IN THE DARTH MAUL COMIC!

maul duals a nightsister:
N. do you know what i am?
M: a nightsister, A witchof Dathomir, skilled in the use of the darkside of the force.
M: you understand so little.
N: Do i? youve never faced my kind before.
M: youve never faced MINE!
N: we'll see.
*starting dual*
maul realy kick her ass... he is slising her sword in 2... (nightsister use weird swords, not lightsabers)
N: a nightsister is NEVER unarmed.
N: even you cant stand before force lightning.
N: and the power of the dark side...
M: nnng*in pain*
M:..you..know..NOTHING...of the dark side!!! :mad:
N: ho can you...resist... i know, i know what you must be.
M: *rises and cuting her in two...(just like obi wan did to him)

th end! :D

anyway earlier, darth maul uses grip on a guy.. a mon calmari!
so maul got grip but not lightning... :disaprove Remember that this is of course EU and theres nothing that says Maul can or cant use lightning. It is a Dark power. It might be a more advanced power that requires more mastering of the Dark side like Sidious and Tyranus have.

Breton
11-27-2002, 07:13 PM
About the Vader dying by just a little lightning thing. I don't know who said this, but at least I agree with it. In ep2, in the last saber duel, Anakin rushes towards Dooku, but then Dooku hits him hard with lightning, and after a second or so Anakin is mortally wounded. This is because Dooku wanted to damage Anakin as much as possible at as little time as possible, and therefore he hits him very hard. However, in ep6, the Emperor wants to give Luke a really slow and painful death, and therefore not using too much power on the lightning. But when Vader picks up Palpantine to kill him, Palpy naturally fears for his life, and therefore using the lightning as powerful as he can at Vader. Naturally this kills Vader, along with the arm-cutting.

Jedi_Monk
11-27-2002, 08:11 PM
Anakin rushes towards Dooku, but then Dooku hits him hard with lightning, and after a second or so Anakin is mortally wounded.
Stunned, definitely, but certainly not mortally wounded. Mortally wounded means you're gonna die without immediate medical attention.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Breton
11-27-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

Stunned, definitely, but certainly not mortally wounded. Mortally wounded means you're gonna die without immediate medical attention.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Mind that I do not come from an english speaking country

"Badly wounded" would perhaps be better?

Sivy
11-27-2002, 09:16 PM
The emperor was taken by surprise and didn’t have time to react, so I don’t think he did anything but scream. I think short bursts of force lightning shock, only long exposure would kill. Vader though couldn't take any lightning as it messed up his suit and the life-supporting devices stop working. that why he knew he was dying.

JediNyt
11-27-2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
About the Vader dying by just a little lightning thing. I don't know who said this, but at least I agree with it. In ep2, in the last saber duel, Anakin rushes towards Dooku, but then Dooku hits him hard with lightning, and after a second or so Anakin is mortally wounded. This is because Dooku wanted to damage Anakin as much as possible at as little time as possible, and therefore he hits him very hard. However, in ep6, the Emperor wants to give Luke a really slow and painful death, and therefore not using too much power on the lightning. But when Vader picks up Palpantine to kill him, Palpy naturally fears for his life, and therefore using the lightning as powerful as he can at Vader. Naturally this kills Vader, along with the arm-cutting. You are 99% right about all that. The 1% is the mortally thing.;)

Andy867
11-28-2002, 12:22 AM
Humor me, but if lightning would have shorted the circuits in vader's circuitry, then how was Luke still able to use his arm after being literally toasted by the Emperor. In my opinion if the force lightning is really electrical lightning, then I can see where it affected vaders circuitry, but why doesn't it affect Luke? Now if Force Lightning is just concentrated energy unrelated to electricity, then the Force lightning just badly hurt Vader's life/lifeforce.

Ratmjedi
11-28-2002, 12:52 AM
That is a very good point man. No one thought of it before. That was why I wasn't buying the whole fried his circuitry theory. He was injured before and that lightining just finished him off in my opinion.
:duel: :lsduel:

JediNyt
11-28-2002, 01:02 AM
My thoughts exactly. Although it could be argued that Luke only had a mechanical hand which is too small to hurt the rest of his body. Vader lifesupport was in his mechanical suit. If thats fried then he cant live. But regardless of these theories, Sidious's lightning attack would have killed him anyway.

Plo_Koon_27
11-28-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Ratmjedi
But why would his hand being cut off make him die. His hand had been cut off other times before and this one was a cybernetic one so it's like it would of killed him. Lukes was shot and he didn't get really injured by it. It was like a scratch or a little jolt of pain.
:duel: :lsduel:

like it was said before Vader's suit was a sealed unit like a nasa space suit, so when luke chopped off the hand the suit was no longer sealed. i like my theory on this subject.

:lsduel: :vadar:

ET Warrior
11-28-2002, 03:02 AM
I think that it was the emperor's lightning that fried vader. Thinking deeply on all the events in that scene. after his hand gets cut off and we see him lying there he is breathing with much effort, practically wheezing, this COULD be from damage caused by the removal of his hand, but my guess is that he's just plain tired, he's been dueling for a long time and that last volley of Luke's was dynamite. Now if it were the removal of the hand that caused the death of Vader one would assume that he would have been in a much weakened condition, and not able to recover enough strength to get back up, this however is not the case.
Vader is able to stand next to the Emperor who is currently frying Luke AND is strong enough to lift said emperor over his head. Therefore i personally think the loss of his hand hurt him less than it hurt Luke when he lost his. And had the cut to his suit been something that would cause a decompression of sorts and cause him to die you would think he'd know about it and try to get somewhere to get it fixed, instead of standing by to watch the emperor fry luke.
Now while Vader has the emperor above his head, the emperor seems to lose control of his lightning, during this time i think that his terror causes him to reflexively fire his lightning as powerfully as he can, similar to when people get frightened and can lose control of bodily functions ;) During his electrocution we also see part of vaders skeleton, implying a HUGE voltage running through him. Then as soon as he finishes dropping the emperor he slumps to the ground, wheezing uncontrolably. Now if the lightning ruined his suit, or simply overloaded his nervous system i cannot say, but i am certain that is WAS the lightning that did it.

Ratmjedi
11-28-2002, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Plo_Koon_27


like it was said before Vader's suit was a sealed unit like a nasa space suit, so when luke chopped off the hand the suit was no longer sealed. i like my theory on this subject.

:lsduel: :vadar:

I was the one that said that Vader suit was like a NASA suit. :p
:duel: :lsduel:

lukeiamyourdad
11-28-2002, 07:41 PM
I think Luke could still use his hand because palpatine didn't use his 100% to make Luke suffer while he unleashed everything on Vader.

leXX
11-28-2002, 08:25 PM
Something just occured to me. I always thought Palpatine had control over Vader because of the lightning. I know Vader respected him etc, but up until I saw the lightning, I wondered why Vader wasn't running the show. I know Ep2 has expained alot of that now so I'm not worried about that anymore. One thing is bothering me now, what does Palpatine have over Dooku that is stopping Dooku running the show?

Ratmjedi
11-28-2002, 08:43 PM
Palpatine is the only Sith Lord at the time. He managed to go through many Padawan's and stay the Master. Dooku may of been a Master Jedi but compared to Palpatine Dooku was nothing. Palpatine had studied the Sith Holocron's and knew all about the powers. He could of easily of disposed of Dooku if he wanted to. The Palpatine in EP VI was very old so he couldn't really retaliate tha much. Palpatine in EP I and EP II was younger and could of been more of a threat.
:duel: :lsduel:

Keiran Halcyon
12-02-2002, 03:31 PM
Well it seems that dooku only manages to control Force lighting with one hand. Sidious uses both :p

About the Mon Calamari thing, ok the name can be more or less EU, but possibly Lucas invented that one since i think that name should have rose arroud ROTJ release. Anyway could you think of a better name?! What is ackbar? A humanoid squid (well he also resembles a hammer shark) That name could also have fitted perfectly for the quarren, who are a humanoid body attacehd to a squid.

Kain
12-02-2002, 06:45 PM
Obi Wan - He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil...

OBVIOUSLY his left hand is no longer flesh. That overload bs is just that, bs. In the old Star Wars RP (the d6 system), the Force powers available were by rank, and according to that *which is monitored by Lucas*, Palpatine was a Jedi Master, whereas Vader was a Jedi Knight. My point is, Lightning is a Master power, and Grip was padawan I believe. Unfortunantly, they quit publishing these d6 rule books before Episode 2 came, so Dooku's stats arent in it. But in this new bs system, a level 1 Jedi can use Lightning at anytime, same with grip

boinga1
12-02-2002, 11:45 PM
I agree with the lightning supercharge idea here. Decompression is not an issue because the hand was a machine-if you expose a robot's hand to bad air or something, is it harmed? no. Second, Force Lightning is NOT like electric lightning. If so, wouldn't the Emperor's and Dooku's have been attracted to the METAL floor of their rooms, killing all in the room? Granted, enough force control could have let them prevent that, but after less than 10 years as a Sith, I don't think Dooku could have managed this. I think Vader just uses Grip over lightning because of the greater finesse, and also he is able to gain the respect of say, crewers, rather than turning a guy to ashes and frightning the crew to death, Vader can have a body as a clear sign of his power in a way that is frightnign but not terrifying.

JediNyt
12-03-2002, 04:00 AM
I think this discussion is long finished. FYI.

BobaJango
12-12-2002, 01:58 AM
I have but one statement:

Vader is more machine than man. Force lightning has at least 1,000 volts of electricity. Imagine the effect it would have on a life support system.

2 words:
Power surge.


:fett: :jango:

Andy867
12-12-2002, 02:22 AM
That only applies BobaJango if you are referring to terms of lightning that we know of, which is electric, not some "FORCE" driven power. So by the Star Wars standards, Force Lightning could simply be 120v, or 5000 of OUR volts. But since it isnt of our natural lightning, we cannot assess that it is 1,000 volts or of ANY Voltage.

Naphtali
12-12-2002, 08:10 PM
I think of grip in the same class as persuassion, that it can't be used agains't others who are significantly strong with the force, because you manipulating the person themselve.

Iv'e never heard anythiong official on these things, just your guys theorys often based off the EU stuff, and others interpretations.
Vadar it's stated that he was struck in the heart by the lightning.
Whats more for the people that ridiculously say his helmet tooken off killed him should listen harder. Vadar says nothing can stop that now after look stated it.
THats suggest the emperor gave him a killing blow.
As brought in the OFFICIAL STARS WARS AOTC visual dictionary Dooku as a jedi master had access and studided some of the forbidden holocrons like the sity holocron.

Also if you have the book look at page 49, ( I dont have a scanner) it stated after he left the order he no longer had access to the sith holocron so he studies holographic cells containing mystic teaching of shadowy power which was given to him by sidious.

Force lightning cause excruitiating pain and weakens life it also says impossible to deflect, however we saw differen't.

Anyway thats enough freebe, you'll just have to but the official book.

BobaJango
12-13-2002, 01:29 AM
All right, then why did we see smoke rising from the singed body of Anakin Skywalker after Dooku used "Force lightning" on him?


:fett: :jango:

Andy867
12-13-2002, 02:17 AM
the heat alone, even if not natural lightning alone would be enough to begin to smoke the body and fabric of his Padawan gear. Its simple natural understanding of bioelectricl chemistry and the forces of the universe. Nothing to extreme, like deciphering the language of Drive-Thru ;)

BobaJango
12-13-2002, 02:48 AM
So it's possible that vader would have (if he used lightning) melted his circuits inside his hand. We all know metal is a conductor of electricity, so wouldn't it have melted his circuits in the process? Just a wild guess.:)


:fett: :jango:

Frizbee
12-13-2002, 03:44 AM
Also, have you considered their methods might be due to the reasons for their force choice.

For example. Dooku wanted to take out his opponents. Thus, lightning was a quick effective way. *ZAP* Strike 1 opponent.

Palpatine wanted to torture Luke, hence, lightning would cause him extreme pain (go and electricute yourself, see what I mean)


Vader on the other hand, wanted to make people fear him, as we can see when the Officer gulps in Episode 6?? when he is promoted by Vader after his senior officer is killed.

Its a scare tactic, both for the person who he chokes (ie. in Episode 4 on the Death Star) and for those who witness it. (Every other use.)

BobaJango
12-13-2002, 03:49 AM
Good analysis, but dont you mean Episode 5? (Vader "choked" Admiral Ozzle and replaced him with Piett.)


:fett: :jango:

Wüstenfuchs
12-13-2002, 01:08 PM
You are being too straight-minded. The force is such an open energy...millions of possibilities can be broken by the Jedi. Millions of things can be done, million of powers can be used. You know, it's not a matter of I-chose-this-and-you-chose-that or I-can-only-use-grip. It's a manipulation. It's the force, after all. So, Vader, or even Dooku, can have different styles, or a different training, but they use the force as a whole to brake normal laws. Even with lightning, even with grip, or even doing other things. It's not a question of what appear on the movies or what's there to choose on Jedi knight ii...=]

Kryllith
12-13-2002, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Frizbee
Vader on the other hand, wanted to make people fear him, as we can see when the Officer gulps in Episode 6?? when he is promoted by Vader after his senior officer is killed.

Or it could have simply run this way...

Anakin: "Dooku is extremely powerful with the Force. I should learn to generate lightning from my fingertips like he can."
Obi-wan: "Perhaps my young padawan, but my lightsaber easily absorbed the lightning."
Anakin: "Perhaps I could find a more effective way to eliminate my advesaries from a distance."
Obi-wan: "Be careful, or you risk falling down the path of the Dark side."
Anakin: "Oh yes, yes, of course. What am I thinking? (muttered under his breath) You're just afraid I'll overshadow you, aren't you master?"

Kryllith

Kain
12-13-2002, 11:24 PM
the force lightning couldn't of surged his circuits for any of the following reasons


1. He wore leather gloves. leather probably isnt exactly superconductive

2. the lightning probably wouldnt come from his arm. it comes from his finger TIPS.

3. Even if it would surge his circuits, he'd just stop it before i did any real damage and he'd find a way to shoot it from outside of his hand

Andy867
12-14-2002, 03:13 AM
Even though Vader is more machine than human, he is still human, and the force lightning is a manipulated form of the Force with one intention: Mortally wound the intended foe. Anakin was obviously hurting when fighting Dooku. Only a rush of the force and adrenaline were able to help him. It is obvious that depending upon your relation to the force, it will determine how much of a burst of force energy you will receive. Look at Yoda. He goes from cane to the flying trapeze to cane.

Wavey Davey
12-22-2002, 09:20 AM
The reason vader died from force lightning, very simple.

First palps was only using a small "current" on luke to hurt him and not kill. Then after torturing he finally says, "now young skywalker you will die" in other words he turns the current to KILL, that is when Vader intervenes.

So not only does Vader have a much higher voltage of lightning it also goes straight inot his brain, as u can see when the lightining shows his skull.