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View Full Version : Detail in Exterior Areas (for final release)


Katarn07
12-03-2002, 07:36 PM
Lots of people commented on the rock walls needing to be more realistic for the demo. Well, there are more exterior areas in this game, and most are bigger than what was seen in level one.
For instance, levels 4, 5, 6, and 8 all take place outside (outside of cities as well), and making rocks more realistic just won't cut it for realism. So before the authors mess that up, I think DF veterans, or people who are aquainted with the game should give some input as to how these areas should be improved.

My level 4 suggestions.
Fest is full of canyons and outdoorsy areas, so I think some installations with windows in the walls that make the base seem bigger would do good here. When you look down at the canyon floor, something needs to be added. Buildings, AT-STs on trial runs, etc.
My level 5 suggesrtions.
Gromas could just use some whacky machinary jutting out of the walls. Somethink like the thing in JO's level one, the rock wall across from the door that's controls are blasted has something like what I'm talking about. Also, since there are underground areas, the rocky halls need to be a little more jagged. Maybe some prisoners from JO could be found in that one chasm, the one that leads to the power coupling area.
My level 6 suggestions.
Well, the base is man made, but there are some natural rocks used as wall in the opening of the Orinackra level. The one area that is bland is the canyon you cross on the skiff. I suggest adding a building below to explain where the probe droids come from. Some installations with windows in the walls would do fine too.
My level 8 suggestions.
Just cut up the ice up, making it more jagged. Make the ice reflective, like the mirror in JO's last level, so we know it's ice. My first time through, I had trouble distiguishing snow from ice. That river water should have ice chunks floating on top of it (if this is possible).

That looks like I'm requesting alot, but I just did 4 level suggestions. I also went into depth as to what I'm talking about.

The rest of the outdoors areas (levels 3, 7, and 11) are in a city, all man made. No need to do anything about staright edges here.

xcountryman03
12-03-2002, 09:10 PM
I agree with katarn, also in the snow level snow should be falling and on dark levels (sec base, det center) there should be rain. It was in the yavin level and snow was in demo level

MilesTeg
12-03-2002, 10:19 PM
We know about the rain and snow features... I wonīt start spoiling you :D

Itīs nice to see ideas popping up the team had in internal discussions ;)


@Katarn07
I donīt know if Iīve already mentioned it but there will be different types rocks formations in the levels. The secbase is just the easiest way to make them.
I couldnīt change them too much because PL_Phantom made it this way and I would have to rebuild the complete thing (wich would cause too much trouble -> level would leak etc.)

As always, we will keep your ideas in mind. For the gromas level I thought exactly of those features when I started with the map ;)

For level 8: sorry, everything you mentioned is impossible with the JO engine.

Katarn07
12-03-2002, 10:39 PM
You're doing Gromas! That's my favorite level in DF! (tied with Ergo).
Your current Avatar is fitting.
(I get it, first it was the sec base, now Gromas...)

level 8, oh well, I figured about not being possible (are you sure about the ice reflection though?). If not, I'll just leave the cleats on! No battery power for those :D

I had the weather thoughts as well and if I may make a suggestion, do it in certain areas, not the whole thing. For example (if this is possible!)

In the Detention Center, many of us know we will get to return to the Crow with Madine at our side. On the way in, it should be just dark out. But upon leaving the base with Madine, make it raining. There is just something really gloomy about prison and rain...
Script the level to begin raining after the first objective is completed. I am not a level editor, so I don't know if this is possible. if it is, do the same with Anteevy. After planting the third charge, make it snow so then upon your arrival outside, it is snowing.

*** Oh, wait! Anteevy author, I remember a lot of straight edges! Make them slopes; snow can't form edges like that. If that author isn't here, can Darth, One, or Milesteg direct exterior authors to this thread for detailing ideas?

xcountryman03
12-03-2002, 11:45 PM
yeah i think you can do reflective surfaces. I know that there is one in the dueling room of the JO demo. BUt then again, i'm not an editor so i don't know if its too hard to be worth it or something

MilesTeg
12-04-2002, 08:50 AM
You canīt use mirrored surfaces all over the level. The graphics card has to draw everything twice!! There is also a very high possibility of HOM (hall of mirror errors).

About your second paragraph, Katarn07, I donīt know if this is switchable - we will see

Darth_Linux
12-04-2002, 12:51 PM
Kyle's reflection is really just a shader trick - you could put that reflection image on a toilet seat if you wanted to . . .

Geoffrey S
12-04-2002, 04:49 PM
Gromas could use some nice stuff. Anteevy doesn't need mirrors, and besides, it would ruin the framerate. Perhaps just a shiny shader? Detention center could use a lake at the bottom of the big open area, with the base being supported by big beams. It'd look neat, but perhaps not as recognisable as some would like.
Some bits in secbase could use some more stuff along the canyon walls. Sometimes it seemed a bit too straight at the top, and outside the walls (along the path to the secret area) there wasn't any detail at all. That certainly needs improving, or closing off. That bit away from the secret area doesn't lead anywhere, anyway.

xcountryman03
12-04-2002, 06:01 PM
maybe just have like a big ice sheet (i think i remember there being one) that has the reflections

Katarn07
12-04-2002, 08:35 PM
I was talking about ice being reflective, but since it would drain resources, possibly just make it all shiny (ice only, leave the snow alone).
I didn't know about the weather change, but if its not possible, it'd be better to leave it all off...

xcountryman03
12-04-2002, 11:43 PM
yea thats what i meant too

michael_collins
12-05-2002, 04:41 PM
i love the lake idea, perhaps with a waterfall ??

Katarn07
12-05-2002, 06:11 PM
There's snow in the demo?! I don't have that level then. What is it called?

Having things at the bottom of the canyons won't affect the original maps. Remember in DF, you can't look down at the ground all the way, its limited to about 45 degrees unlike JK and Jo which has 90 degrees of looking up and down.

Katarn07
02-09-2003, 07:29 PM
Well, today I have played alot of games from DF. Played AK's BoaM for MotS to get some screenies of the YT-1800 Celphi, played a bit of JO to test out PerfectChaos's MP Tibanna Factory map, and even a bit of DF to try out my soundcard in DOS (hey, can't get it to work. PM how to fix sound in DF and Sam and Max Hit the Road please...)

Now as to why I came here. Level 5 has a bunch of pipes and wires on the wall that are just textured on there. I hope you aren't doing that Miles. Are yoy making some 3D pipes jutting outta the wall? Is that wire we see in the screens on the main site textured on there, or actually hanging from the ceiling?

Look at textures elsewhere in the game for details that are supposed to be 3D, not lat and textured on a wall...

Fracman
02-10-2003, 02:33 PM
Our primary job is to recreate DF. So we are first recreating all the textures in higher resolution and all the maps in BSP format.
Then, where it is suitable, 3D objects will replace some - not all - elements on the textures. But you better see it on the next screenshots as soon as the new site is up.

Btw. lots of these questions have already been answered in the FAQ (http://darkforces.jediknightii.net/faq.shtml) on the DFMOD site.

Fracman

Katarn07
02-10-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Fracman
Our primary job is to recreate DF. So we are first recreating all the textures in higher resolution and all the maps in BSP format.
Then, where it is suitable, 3D objects will replace some - not all - elements on the textures. But you better see it on the next screenshots as soon as the new site is up.

Btw. lots of these questions have already been answered in the FAQ (http://darkforces.jediknightii.net/faq.shtml) on the DFMOD site.

Fracman

I see that you only have two posts and buches of people were complaining about the demo. I liked it and frankly don't care how you guys do it. But I am thinking of the other people. Besides, it might be cooler that way. I don't know... *shrugs*

michael_collins
02-10-2003, 09:19 PM
YT-1800, that an original design??

Katarn07
02-10-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by michael_collins
YT-1800, that an original design??

Yes. Yes it is. I'll provide a link in an edit of it.

*** 2000 posts for the DF FORUMS!!!!!!!!!

YT-1800 Celphi from AK's Birth of a Mercenary Trilogy (http://home.attbi.com/~pahnke6/wsb/media/150725/site1028.jpg)

MilesTeg
02-10-2003, 11:06 PM
Some pipes will be real 3D, some will be 2D Textures.

Even Unreal 2 still uses textures for that kind of stuff...

Katarn07
02-11-2003, 05:25 PM
I was thinking of the people who complained.... I could care less. I loved the demo.

Fracman
02-11-2003, 06:09 PM
I was thinking of the people who complained...
You are repeating your posts... and I'm increasing my post count to beat you ... one day ... perhaps ... or not... :D

I loved the demo.
Ah, thanks, then you certainly will enjoy the full mod :)

But: who complained? No one really complained, I've read only some critisism and lots of ideas ;)

And... the music is fantastic :songsmile ... not was!!!

Fracman

Khaza
02-23-2003, 02:22 PM
You could make the ice in 2 layers...
1st should be semi transparent and the 2nd basic ice/snow texture ...but if you want to use one layer I suggest using simple refrection (not mirror) like in the glass texture.

StormHammer
02-23-2003, 06:38 PM
Talking about snow...I was just wondering if it's possible to add footprints in some areas? I know Raven managed to do that in the snow levels in Soldier Of Fortune, so the engine is certainly capable of it.

Also...are there any plans for a change of clothes for Kyle, so that he wears snow gear on that level? You know, thick gloves, white suit, etc...

Another idea...is it possible to add little puffs of steam to show that Kyle's breathing in the cold air?

Any thoughts of adding the frozen carcass of a Taun Taun outside?

Lastly...is it possible to have some sections of ice break away and fall into the depths? That could make the whole area seem more treacherous...

Ravensroke
02-23-2003, 07:26 PM
We've talked about doing a lot of that in the snow level a gear change for kyle is certainly possible for some of the levels, as is special imperial gear for different levels.

ImmolatedYoda
02-23-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by StormHammer
Talking about snow...I was just wondering if it's possible to add footprints in some areas? I know Raven managed to do that in the snow levels in Soldier Of Fortune, so the engine is certainly capable of it.

Also...are there any plans for a change of clothes for Kyle, so that he wears snow gear on that level? You know, thick gloves, white suit, etc...

Another idea...is it possible to add little puffs of steam to show that Kyle's breathing in the cold air?

yeah, the footprints and steam were in Max Payne, but i havent seen any indication of them available to JO. but who knows, thats up to the team to figure out.

Katarn07
02-23-2003, 09:32 PM
I've suggested a winter parka. But the main change in clothes needs to be Jabba's ship until you recover your gear...

Emon
02-24-2003, 12:09 AM
I think the team should get the most important things such as the coding of the weapons and new entities and making the levels first, then worry about smaller features.

Katarn07
02-24-2003, 05:15 PM
That's exactly what they do. They do that while we give suggestions that they'll try to add if at all possible...

michael_collins
02-26-2003, 07:17 PM
I agree with Katarn, its good to have a thinktank like the forums on any project :D

Also, Stormhammer had a good idea about the clothing idea, howsabout even making him like a rebel soldier at the battle of hoth? its roughly the same period so he wont look "retro" in it lol