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View Full Version : Dooku is a good man?


Wüstenfuchs
12-19-2002, 07:23 PM
Get your DVD. Pause the screen on the exact time that Tyranus slices Anakin's arm. Look at his face! Look at when he cuts Obi-Wan. Dooku appears to do that by an obligation or something like that, never for just pleasure or satisfaction by seeing the jedi being destroyed.
Ok, you can even say that Tyranus couldn't kill Yoda or even Obi-Wan, but he could kill Anakin. He just used force push to knockout the unarmed padawan.
If the sith role are to create misunderstanding, why Dooku told to Obi-Wan the truth about Darth Sidious...?? Now, the Jedi Order is "keeping an eye in the senate"(mace, in the end of the movie).
I think that there is much more to know about Dooku than we already know. Besides, Lee wouldn't accept such character if it was a simple old jedi turned to sith. For me, Dooku's complexity is yet to be revealed...
Dooku's style remembers me the old Obi-Wan. For sure he is not like Maul or Vader. Both had the willing to smash his enemies at all costs. Dooku doesn't. He just has that "surrender and your lives will be spared" style.
Another argument: Why everybody, even after the discover that Dooku was DARTH TYRANUS, continued to call him Dooku? I mean, on the sequels, we can see Yoda and Obi-wan refering to Anakin as Vader, his sith name.And even treating them like different people. So, why the old name? Tyranus is Tyranus...
Ok, post what you think about that, but personally, I can feel "the conflict" in Count Dooku...And maybe my friend Yoda does too..

:p

lukeiamyourdad
12-19-2002, 07:26 PM
He probably wanted to turn Obi1 to his side. Sidious' orders may have been to not kill Anakin. The Jedi keeping an eye on the senate will make them look less at the war.

ET Warrior
12-19-2002, 09:03 PM
Dooku was going to cut obiwans head off. He was bringing his saber down for the killing blow when anakin intercepted his blade. He was also going ot order that all the jedi get shot by the battle droids in the arena. He's not a good man

Wüstenfuchs
12-19-2002, 09:23 PM
ET, do you have EP II DVD?
Take a look at Dooku's face when he cuts Obi-Wan. Okay, even if he was going to kill Obi, I think this is for him much more a sad end rather than a killing strike like Maul's at Qui-Gon.

Okay...wanna know why I do think I'm right?
Replace in EP II Tyranus with Maul. Imagine Maul at Geonosis.
Imagine Palpy!
Quite different, eh?
Even Vader, a "dramatic sith", would be even more deadly. Dooku was telling the truth about Sidious, was in a deffensive position all times.
This is not Sith-style. And a bodyguard???
Jango as a bodyguard??? Come on...Boba was JABBA'S bodyguard. Sith don't need bodyguards, unless they don't want to dirt their hands...
And for me, who doesn't want to dirt their hands is, somehow, pacific.

Matt-Liell
12-19-2002, 09:24 PM
ya, just look at it this way if Anakin didn't jump infront Obi Wan would be in two pieces right now and Dooku would have just run off to his ship and flown away to see Sidious with the plans. But he is working for 2 sides. He was the one who hired Jango to make a clone army to defeat the droid armies he was leading so he will have to betray one but he isnt really a good guy at all! (he was going to kill Mace Windu, you call that nice?$!$!$!@#!#!@#~#$~#$~$~$!@%$!$~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!)

Taos
12-20-2002, 12:26 AM
I don't know if I'd say "good" man, but I would say that he's very intellegent and good at using his skills of persuasion. An excellent character IMO.

:D

wassup
12-20-2002, 01:00 AM
He seems to me like a character that is mysterious and trying to manipulate both sides of the game. I think in his mind he joined Darth Sidious and turned to the Dark Side to try to gain more power, and instead he finds out he has to listen to Sidous's orders or he will be punished for his "disobedience." :eek: I think in his mind he wanted to become the most powerful being alive. But he needed to find the right time to do this, and it just didn't come to him or didn't come to him yet...

JediNyt
12-20-2002, 01:13 AM
Dooku mislead Obi with the truth. He knew Obi wouldnt believe him or much less join him. He told him the truth so Obi wouldnt believe the truth. Hes so crafty like his master Sidious. Its total manipulation. Hehe its great...well not great for the good guys. :( The Jedi dont know Dooku is a Sith, they think hes a filthy liar, which he is in a way. He mislead them with the truth. Its worked so perfectly. A great plan. Ok to put in bluntly: Ever heard of reverse psycology? :rolleyes: I thought the whole thing was pretty obvious after the movie.

wassup
12-20-2002, 01:49 AM
reverse psyc...wat? :confused:

*brain explodes

:D

[edit]JediNyt do you live in San Diego?

JediNyt
12-20-2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by wassup
reverse psyc...wat? :confused:

*brain explodes

:D

[edit]JediNyt do you live in San Diego?

Hehe, very funny.

Yes I do.

Wüstenfuchs
12-20-2002, 08:08 PM
Ok...when Obi-Wan was imprisioned, Dooku could just slice his head. I mean, it could be a Sith's startegy to create misunderstanding and planning to create big plans for domination, but...Dooku could do that killing much more Jedi than he actually did.
I think he can have sith abilities, but he still has some jedi way of seeing things. How bout the arena? Nute Gunray wanted to kill Padmé and Dooku was like "Patience...she will die"
Ok, he had a lightsaber, he had Jango with double-pistols...
Nute Gunray is more sith than him! LOL!
For that reasons, and the others that I put on my last posts, I think that Dooku isn't like the other Darths...:rolleyes:

Taos
12-21-2002, 03:39 AM
@ Jedinyt - Reverse psychology and manipulation.....good! :D I couldn't agree more! He (Dooku) is a master at that indeed. The jedi don't know til they face him at the end of the movie that Count Dooku has gone to the darkside. To be able to "conceal" himself like that is impressive. :D

Master Bodle
12-25-2002, 11:39 AM
Wüstenfuchs i think i speak for everyone here when i say " Shut Up" ur theory is not sound, Dooku is bad and he is one hell of a character !!! Can someone tell me why he turned to the darkside tho, he left the jedi order because he knew of all the coruption in the senate, and wasn't happy about it, so why he turn to dark??

Wüstenfuchs
12-25-2002, 02:12 PM
Sorry, "master"bodle, but you can't say shut up to me when you don't even know why Tyranus turned to the dark side. Try to learn more, log on starwars.com, I mean..it's not that difficult, ok?

To complete my friend...if you say "shut up" to me, I have to say "discus"s and learn" to you. :cool:

JediNyt
12-28-2002, 03:27 PM
Shut this thread down pls. Its pointless. Dont attack eachother over it. Wustenfuchs your theory doesnt work Im afraid. Master Bodle dont tell em to shut up. Wustenfuchs doesnt deserve to be flamed even though the theory doesnt work. Be nice to eachother and forget this thread. Btw noone knows why Dooku went Dark, ok? Noone can claim any knowledge on that topic but George.

boinga1
12-31-2002, 05:59 PM
with the jedi focussing on the senate, they are not looking at the real evil...palpatine. Dooku is evil, why he spared anakin who knows, maybe he sensed his power and hoped he could be turned. Obi he would not have spared after another .75 seconds.

MASTER DUELER
01-02-2003, 11:13 AM
.....................:p :p GOOD?HE WAS THE ONE WHO HELPED DESTROY THE REBUBLIC!:mad: :mad: GOOD?i dont thiink so. ok, he didnt kill anikin did u not watch the rest? they wanted to turn anikin not destroy him! it was part of the plan. the clones were as well. :( :( if obi had turned,the rebublic is dead. he didnt kill obi1 cause he was the master of quigon and knew that in a way,he thought that obi1 was qquigons mirror image.:p :p i guess

Jaracid
01-02-2003, 02:01 PM
Me, I think Dooku didn't have a sided, he help Palpatine because Palpatine is mighty and he want the power, when he spoke to Obi aboute the corruption in the senate, I think that's because Dooku hope Obi wan join on his side to take the power over Palpatine, he's not a bad guy, he's only want to build his perfect world (without the Republic and the Jedi order) and he use the dark side to perfom that.

MASTER DUELER
01-02-2003, 03:05 PM
:wan: :slsaber: :duel: k who really started this problem with the empire?IT WAS QUIGON!:eek: do you know why?:confused:

Carbon_sleeper
01-07-2003, 11:29 PM
Actaully, if you pay attention, the Sith almost never lie. Everything Vader told luke was true. Even the Emporer never lied to luke. he was wrong occasionally, but never flat out lied to luke. So the fact that Dooku told obi wan the truth just holds to that. The Jedi, however, lie every chance they get. That whole 'certain point of view' crap.

Dragonlancer
01-16-2003, 11:32 AM
Ok, I posted this EXACT same thread very recently. It was called "Dooku will betray Sidious!!!!!" Still a valid point though.:D

Count Dooku 2
01-17-2003, 05:24 AM
I've never heard this before... Count Dooku actually disheartened by the fact that he was forced to disable Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker? I don't think so.

Heritus Dooku, although once a Jedi Master, never fully gave himself over to the Light Side. He spent his time as a Jedi learning the ways of the Sith Lords from the Sith Holocron, kept hidden away in the Jedi Temple. Because he was a revered Jedi Master, he could access the Holocron whenever he wanted.

When he finally left the Jedi Order, it was particularly painful, according to Jocasta Nu. Instead of simply leaving, he made a big song and dance about it, and the Dark Side was clear in his actions. Returning to his homeworld, Seranno, to adopt the family title of 'Count', Dooku only spent enough time there to collect his family fortune, since he was the direct heir. He then went into hiding.

To earn the title of Sith Lord takes time... almost ten years, in fact. The tests, the training, the missions Count Dooku undertook would have been painstakingly difficult, and he would not have gone through with them if he wasn't prepared to give his life over to the Dark Side of the Force. His old allies, the Jedi, now became his most hated enemies.

Putting into motion the plans for the destruction of the Jedi Knights and the Galactic Republic isn't the task one usually gives to a good guy, and Lord Sidious knows this. Do you think the Master of the Sith would hand over such a massive task (remember, the Sith have been waiting for one thousand years to carry this out) to someone who was actually on the side of good? Only the purest of Sith Lords could be trusted to assist Lord Sidious in the destruction of the Republic and the Jedi. Count Dooku just happened to be 100% Darth material.

Count Dooku, now using his Sith name Darth Tyranus, put into motion the plans for the downfall of the Republic and the Jedi Order. He would not have sealed their fate if he was still feeling something for his old Jedi friends, nor would he have duelled with them on Geonosis or killed so many in the arena battle beforehand. Remember, 100 Jedi Knights arrived on Geonosis, but only a handfull returned to Coruscant. Count Dooku would never have let this happen if he was on the side of right and virtue.

Count Dooku (Darth Tyranus) is 100% pure evil.

boinga1
01-19-2003, 09:11 PM
nothing like blunt honesty Dooku 2...Furthru proof of Dooku being bad. In the scene where Dooku and Obi lock sabers, right before Dooku slices Obi's arm and leg, one look at Dooku's face and you will see clearly his delight at fightning Jedi. Actually the whole time Dooku is around Obi-wan in the hangar he acts sort of...evil.

leXX
01-20-2003, 05:58 AM
For someone who is pure evil, his look of pity is very hard to explain. It is probably because he wanted to turn Obi to his side as he knew he would make an excellent ally or it could simply be that he doesn't enjoy killing. I don't think he is 'pure' evil, perhaps there is some good still left in him, same as Vader.

Count Dooku 2
01-20-2003, 09:59 AM
Count Dooku's quote:

"Surely you can do better!"

shows us that he is unimpressed by Obi-Wan's skills as a lightsaber fighter. Before the duel, Count Dooku seemed to be interested in turning Obi-Wan into his ally, but when he saw the extent of Obi-Wan's actual skills, not the ones he heard about from Yoda ("Yoda holds you in such high esteem."), then the Jedi Master became another body in the Battle of Geonosis as far as the Count was concerned. I don't think, leXX, that Count Dooku had much interest in Obi-Wan while the duel was going on, otherwise he woudl not have been prepared to kill him.

I agree with boinga1. Count Dooku acts very evilly while fighting in the hanger, although to a lesser extent when faced with his Light Side equal, Yoda, since he needed to concentrate.

The expressions when dealing out punishment to the Jedi on Count Dooku's face could meerly be the fact that they were close-up shots of Christopher Lee actually doing some heavy movements with the lightsaber. Lee is nearly 80 years old, so moving around quickly is tiring for him, and if you look in some of the other quick movement shots Lee filmed, the same expression is evident (removing Anakin's green lightsaber, preparing to kill Obi-Wan).

leXX
01-20-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Count Dooku 2
The expressions when dealing out punishment to the Jedi on Count Dooku's face could meerly be the fact that they were close-up shots of Christopher Lee actually doing some heavy movements with the lightsaber. Lee is nearly 80 years old, so moving around quickly is tiring for him, and if you look in some of the other quick movement shots Lee filmed, the same expression is evident (removing Anakin's green lightsaber, preparing to kill Obi-Wan).

I'm surprised you don't know this but Lee didn't do any of the fight sequences himself. His head was digitally placed on a stunt mans body during all of the action shots. You should watch the DVD special features.

The expression on his face has nothing to do with being tired, it is a look of pity or dissapointment. I feel it is dissapointment that he couldn't turn Obi and had to fight him and that Obi's skill didn't meet his expectations.

Count Dooku 2
01-20-2003, 10:20 AM
Actually, I have watched the DVD special features. There is one particular shot, with George Lucas and a film crew standing in front of Christopher Lee, dressed as the Count, filming as he waves around his red lightsaber (it's a pole painted red).

Christopher Lee did all the close-up shots, but only ones with simple movements like a downswipe or a parry. The computer-pasting of Lee's face on a stuntman was only for the real intense fighting scenes where you could see the full body shots of the actors.

So there.

leXX
01-20-2003, 10:29 AM
So there? Isn't that something a child would say, and what's with the attitude?

If you have seen them already, why did you say it could be the result of Lee doing heavy movement with the lightsaber when you already know he didn't do any heavy movement.

You have just repeated everything I said so what is your point exactly? It's a bit obvious he did all the close up shots and I said he didn't do any of the action sequences. The bit you see with Dooku waving around his red pole is simply getting the positioning right.

Dragonlancer
01-20-2003, 12:12 PM
Like I said before, I think he's not actually evil. I think he's simply............deranged. Perhaps twisted somehow by Sidious's evil. Darth Tyranus is not a sith, he's a dark jedi.

Count Dooku 2
01-21-2003, 06:21 AM
For an 80 year old, performing an uppercut slice on someone's arm is heavy action. Slicing a lightsaber out of someone's hand is heavy action... need I go on?

Count Dooku is not a Dark Jedi, he is a Sith Lord. The title 'Darth' is only given to the pair of Sith Lords, and at the moment they are Darth Sidious and Darth Tyranus... Count Dooku. Dark Jedi include Jerec and Sariss, who were powerful enough to become Sith Lords but didn't, therefore not allowed to take on the title of Darth. If Count Dooku's name is Darth Tyranus, then he is a Sith Lord.

Anywho, Count Dooku rules the Star Wars universe, and there is no good left in him whatsoever. He is a Dark Lord of the Sith, and doesn't make sorrowful expressions when dis-arming Jedi.

Darth_Rive
01-24-2003, 05:32 PM
99% of what Count Dooku 2 has said is true, but the look on Tyranus' face after slicing Anakin's arm off is definitely not one of exhaustion. It's one of sorrow or disappointment. For what reason this is, I don't know. Maybe he could sense Sidious' disappointment in him not killing Obi-Wan or injusring Anakin so badly - Sidious knows Anakin's (potential) power as shown by when he says "I can foresee you becoming the most powerful Jedi of all, even more powerful than Master Yoda", so perhaps he had asked Dooku to try and convert him. OK, so I concede there was no mention of this in the film either between Sidious and Tyranus, or Tyranus and Anakin, but it's still a possibility.

Maybe Dooku sensed Sidious' "master plan" and felt bad for being such an instrumental part in it. Mabe he was trying to remember what else he had to do whilst he was out...

"Ok, so, shopping, pay gas bill, re-insure the ship, chop Anakin's arm off, escape to Coruscant, talk to the boss for a bit, then round to the missus for a bit of rumpy-pumpy..." LMAO