View Full Version : New Boss on HARD??? Or just a cutscene?
01-06-2003, 06:34 PM
Would anyone be opposed to a new boss for level 3 only on hard? I think if changes are done, they should only be done on hard.
Here is my proposal...
Let's have Moff Rebus be a boss. Its always bugged me you don't fight him! Even the first time I got there as a kid. It took me weeks to figure out how to raise the water level, and once I did. I seriously emptied my clip on Rebus when I found him, expecting him to get up and fight. All he really needs is a repeater. That is the prototype Phase II DT weapon.
Vote on my poll and post your thoughts here. I really don't wanna give the devs more work to do, but is scripting a guy that they're going to have to make really much more work???
01-07-2003, 06:52 PM
Only 2 other votes???
Come on, its me! The one person you'd last think to be suggesting this. I know it's not in the original, but he whole "boss" thing gives the game a very vintage feel.
Also, when you vote, can you tell why or why not down here. I here that Rebus and Mohc are both in the making!
01-07-2003, 09:13 PM
il second ur opinion but only if the modders can do it, and if they cant, then were gonna have to sit with a cutscene, then again, isnt rebus down there in hiding, why have to fight him ??
01-08-2003, 05:34 PM
Use spoilers tags.
The guy has gotta a big giant rifle, and he isn't leaving without a fight??? The guy is an Imperial Weapons maker who the Empire would probably kill if he leaked any info! Which he did, unintentionally...
01-08-2003, 06:04 PM
well if hes gonna be killed for leaking info, better he is in alliance hands than imp ones, therefore why fight him ?
01-08-2003, 06:14 PM
He has a bigger rifle! Of course he'll wuss out and eventually give up. If possible, don't make it appear he dies, just fall on is knees. Or once you "kill" him, it automatically triggers a cutscene of him surrendering.
01-09-2003, 01:06 AM
Or once you "kill" him, it automatically triggers a cutscene of him surrendering.
a la Tavion
01-09-2003, 12:32 PM
still dont understand the logic of putting a fight up but what the hell you have my vote lol
itll add to playability and lastability i suppose
01-09-2003, 05:14 PM
Yes! Definately add the boss! But why only on hard? Surely if you're going to go to the trouble of doing it you might as well add the fight for all difficulty levels. I never heard of having an extra boss only on hard difficuly in a game before. As long as it's done well, I don't see any reason for people to complain.
I was always disappointed you never got to fight Rebus too. I saw a screenshot of him before I played the game and assumed he was a boss, so like you I emptied half a blaster clip into him as soon as I got to him. It never made sense to me that he just surrenders and gives you the information you want without a fight. After all, he IS an Imperial, he's already tried pretty damn hard to kill you with his assorted droids, and he's got a huge gun in his hands. I mean what's he doing - polishing it?! If you don't put the boss in after all, at least script the cutscene so that it looks like he's going to start a fight, but have his gun malfunction or something so that he has no choice but to surrender.
If you're worried about having a boss that early in the game being too difficult for newbies, why not just exclude him from easy difficulty, or script it so that if the player is low on health/energy when they get to him they don't have to fight?
Alternatively (particularly if you've got any more interesting, potentially controversial alterations you'd like to make to the game), perhaps you could release some sort of 'enhancement pack' for people to download seperately from the mod itself. That way those who want to try the new stuff can, and those who don't can play the game with the levels as they were in the original DF - sorta like the 'new missions / classic missions' option in the Collector's Edition CD of X-Wing where players could select to play easier versions of some levels that were particularly difficult in the original floppy disk version.
01-09-2003, 06:07 PM
That is what I was trying to say...
Well put, Richy Boy. The reason I said only on hard because there are threads talking about adding new enemies and better equipped Imps on the 3rd level of difficulty, so it is new, while the other 2 (make them like DF's Easy and Hard, for example) are classic for us DF veterans.
I haven't heard a devs opinion on the whole new enemies on the 3rd difficulty only. Anyone like to say something? (The_One, Darth_Linux, MilesTeg, etc.)
*** The cutscene would show him surrender if you guys overthrow this idea and decide "No Way!!!! A cutscene will suffice!"
01-09-2003, 06:35 PM
I haven't offered my opinion due to the fact that I don't really have one. I don't quite know what to make of some of these suggestions. Changing Rebus into a boss kind of changes the story, albeit in a small way - I'm sure there was a reason as to why he didn't fight, and allowing him to fight alters the continuity somewhat. On the otherhand, it would be cool to fight him.
I'd like to research this a bit more, and maybe we can find out from some Dark Forces knowitall why this was the case. I don't feel we should tamper with the story too much unless we are sure it is for the best...
01-09-2003, 06:53 PM
The best source to go to is straight to LucasArts.
There is EU that explains EVERYTHING about JK, but very little for DF. That is why I can't wait for this mod! DF, although it had a story, wasn't as well done as JK's. This is a mission one, where you have to capture top secret info, blow bases up, and even rescue a few people along the way.
Maybe if everyone who visits here, goes to lucasarts.com (http://lucasarts.com) and asks Lucas Arts a question: Why did we not get to fight Moff Rebus in the original Dark Forces?, they might give a good response. I'll seriously do it!
*** I did it. I asked. Anyone registered with them, ask as well please. If there is no story about this, then I think we can persuade you guys to green light this...
01-12-2003, 05:50 AM
I like the idea, but certainly don't do it only on hard. I get the impression you only want changes on the hard difficulty level. Why is that? If it makes hard better, wouldn't it make easy better too? Difficulty levels are for more difficulty, not for exclusive content.
But as I said, the idea of fighting Moff Rebus is neat. I got the impression from the original game he wasn't really much of a fighter, so maybe him hiding behind some glass while some turrets go after the player would work (like that fat Rodian guy)? Or maybe a cutscene showing his weapon failing would be better?
01-13-2003, 04:15 PM
Wait a minute... you guys are talking about all this stuff, but you have to remember that when you actually find Moff Rebus, he is in a very small room-- and I think that it's a tried truth of 3d shooters that fighting a boss is NEVER fun in a small room. You could enlarge the area, but then you kind of loose the realism of this guy hiding away in a dingy, cramped sewer. It does seem to me that a cutscene might be the best way to go here, or you could just take away Rebus's gun... say, he's worried that a weapons trace would help people fuind him? Just a thought...
01-13-2003, 06:01 PM
Actually, the only bosses I've ever fought in a game were from DF, JK, MotS, and JO. And MotS's boss was Kyle in a small room.
But the thing is the last boss of the game is in pretty tight quarters, unless you use the elevator to go back up. You could always run away and lead Rebus back down to the main floor of his hideout.
01-14-2003, 11:28 AM
mots was kinda tricky thou, i fought that guy for HOURS before working it out
01-14-2003, 02:56 PM
You also had to fight yourself in MotS. My cousin's husband never got past her, not because of the tight quarters, just he couldn't do it. I don't know, I just lured her away and trapped her in a corner and sabered her off.
Maybe unlike the other bosses found in the game, he just kinda stand there and lets out his ammo upon you. Of course he'll move to dodge your shots, he just won't run around like crazy and attack as most bosses do. He should just have a high HP? Post your thought on that.
01-15-2003, 04:03 PM
Perhaps you can do a Reelo style thing, with Rebus getting some turrets to gun you down?
01-15-2003, 04:19 PM
But then what is the point of him holding that big gun?! Is he building it? Then have a cutscene of him building it and Kyle strolls along and puts a Bryar up to him.
But it'd be more fun to stun him by shooting him and breaking his gun (explaining why Kyle can't add it to his arsenal)
01-16-2003, 06:21 PM
I love a good boss fight, but remember this guys a scientist not a warrior. A good thing would be to add a cutscene where the frightened guy threatens kyle but kyle (knowing the guy doesnt have the skill to fight back, or conversely noticing the guys gun is an unfinished prototype) lets off a stun into his leg then grabs his gun and takes him away.
01-16-2003, 07:46 PM
This is all talk and I do think a cutscene would indeed suffice. But, the thrill of it would be great as well.
*** Yay, my glowy name works finally here! I also got points for reporting the problem. Just 300 some more to my image sig...
chris the cynic
04-12-2003, 02:11 PM
(There's a lot of interesting stuff in the older posts.)
Rebus is described an extremely loyal paranoid. He would not surrender because a) he is too loyal to the empire, b) he wouldn't believe that they would do anything less than torture him for years on end. So he would put up a fight, and he would probably have the weapon he designed. Which would be cool.
Anyway, I've always wondered why you don't get to use (or see in action) the prototype Dark Trooper weapon, the repeater is a scaled down version, I think it said that somewhere, but it's pretty easy to see the size difference in the pick up. I figure the prototype would be a slightly worse version of the primary fire on the assault canon, with the secondary fire of three (like the normal repeater.)
Since you guys have talked about going back to the ship in the end there could be an additional section, to get you back to the ship (because you can’t go back the way you came) where you can use the gun. Then at the end have the alliance take it away, or simply run out of ammo, there aren’t plasma cartridges available until you actually meet a phase 2 Dark trooper anyway.
Game play in the additional part would be dependent on whether you had Rebus pass out or surrender. One way you have to stay with him, and perhaps defend him (the empire doesn’t want him taken), the other way you’d be slowed down by having to carry him out.
04-13-2003, 01:39 AM
That would be awesome! DO IT!
04-14-2003, 07:09 PM
Its a prototype weapon so im working on the logical assumption that the DTs carry MK1s (think il get flamed for this?) so i dont think its usable, cutscene
chris the cynic
04-15-2003, 07:52 PM
The prototype weapons took out all of Talay Tak. As far as we know only one broke. The difference appears to be that a missile launcher was added (though the blown up buildings may imply that for the first test they had an alternate explosive weapon, perhaps a separate missile launcher) and the ammunition storage was changed so that the ribbon feed was no longer necessary.
Judging from what Chin has said I think that this is the picture where he originally “had the Phase 2 carrying [the repeater] with ribbon feed to an ammo pack slung in the back”
I don't think that it looks like a repeater either, but it was an early render, and the repeater is the only weapon i've heard of DTs useing other than the Assualt Cannon, and the ribbon feed really suports that.
04-15-2003, 08:35 PM
You do have to think about balancing here people.
We don't want Kyle getting his hands on a very powerful weapon this early on in the game. It would completely change the way you played it. If we do end up including a fight, I don't think Kyle will be able to pick up the weapon.
Maybe you could fight him, then after a while it triggers a cutscene and the weapon malfunctions. That would kill two birds with one stone...
04-16-2003, 02:39 AM
Actually, this is just my opinion, but...
Moff Reebus was alone, possibly surprised, and I would think that researchers and scientists would be the last to pick up a gun for the empire. His description let's it go either way, but if he's so loyal that he'll fight, then he simply won't be taken alive.
And for all you know, that gun he's holding isn't finished, etc. If he was wanting to live, surrender would seem like the only choice. And as far as him holding it like he did:
Pointing it at Kyle would surely mean he would end up decorating the walls, and dropping it would be a sudden movement....
And we all know what happens with sudden movements.... :D
I'd personally go with cutscene of a paranoid genius at weapons development, but is also a whiny know-it-all with a sense of self preservation.
chris the cynic
04-17-2003, 05:55 PM
"he simply won't be taken alive."
*intresting, though stupid, idea pops into head*
You could make it so you have to defend him, from him. You couldn't use a gun, because then you might kill him, but you'ld have to subdue him with your fists or else he would blow himself up with a thermal detonator.
As for the balancing issue (if you let kyle get the big gun), like i said, have it break or be taken away, it's a prototype anyway maybe it wan't made to last longer than it took for the demonstration.
04-17-2003, 09:04 PM
I can see it in the mission briefing now...
"You must stop Moff Rebus from killing himself with a thermal detonator. He also has a big gun that doesn't work. Use your fists. Remember: He is of more danger to himself, than to you"
04-17-2003, 10:09 PM
:lol: Well, I think I still prefer the cutscene.... ;)
04-18-2003, 08:50 AM
I'll probably make a poll on the website about this sometime :)
04-18-2003, 02:52 PM
so if a cutscene itll be a scripted thing right?
Any others in the pipeline?
chris the cynic
04-18-2003, 05:26 PM
Hey, I said it was stupid.
In fact, I said that right up front.
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