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Kstar__2
01-09-2003, 11:17 AM
for the last couple of years, violence has only increased, in a dramatical way: when i was 4, my mother would let me play 3 streets away, but with my little sister (now 9 btw) my mother woulnd't even think about it, because of all the violence on the street.

but it is happening global, everywhere there is more violence, and it is accepted for crying out loud.

i don't think the the human race will survive if people continue acting this way

C'jais
01-09-2003, 01:15 PM
I'd rather live in our time than the dark ages. Back then, it was accepted to hold public executions and other gruesome displays of power. Not to forget that there was a lot of "random" violence as well, it's just not what history records so well. I quite believe that half of every woman in the dark ages had been raped at some point.

It is getting more peaceful, but it might not seem that way in the current of things.

Here's a brutal story I was told today:

An 18 year old (who happens to be my mom's coworker's son) was attending a private party this Christmas. At the party, they found a seemingly unconscious man lying on the road. They tried to wake him up, and eventually succeeded in bringing him into the party from the cold. When he had regained strengh though, he refused to leave. The people there told him it was a private party and asked him to leave, but he just would not. He finally took a knife he had had, and attacked the 18 year old. He succeeded in dealing a 9cm deep wound in the shoulder, as well as cuts on both the neck and the chest.

Horrible. Especially because it felt so close to me (even though I've never even met him or his mother. It happened somewhat close to where I live.

Kstar__2
01-09-2003, 01:52 PM
same think happend to me: a guy got stabbed in my street, and the woman tha got shot was the friend's friend of a mother of a friend of mine. now thaty sounds far away, but it really isn't when it happends to you. the local newspaper was full with attacks, cars being stolen, dead bodies found, 16 year old girls and boys being beaten up, all in a week time! so my city is really turing into one of those getto's it may not look like it, but it's starting too look like it.

El Sitherino
01-09-2003, 05:54 PM
i believe that man will only be destroyed by mans emotions of hate and pride. yes pride , the pride that makes us start wars and bomb countries, the false pride. in the end i believe all mankind will end at its own hands. due to the things listed above.
it is mans need the natural need to be incharge and be the toughest that start wars and destroy society. i think this is what will inevetably destroy us.

Arkum
01-09-2003, 06:08 PM
I agree. There is a lot of violence,hate and pride nowadays. People have lots of pride. That pride makes us start wars, hate makes us pick an enemy, and violence lets us carry out that hate in horrific way to show our pride.

How can we survive ourselves?

You just have to look past all the violence that's always the big news. You have to believe that there are still good people in this world. You have to have some hope. Our generation, in my opninion, is smarter than the adults around today. Adults today are corrupt, full of hate and anger, and don't know a lot. I think our generation is smarter, knows more about the world around us, and are more understandable, and give more respect to others different than us.

Darth Talliusc
01-09-2003, 06:31 PM
it often seems this way. and no doubt in some places you're right violence is rising and with it crime and hatred. but its not as bad as we think. ill explain.

the media knows that horrible accidents and violent murders keep people watching, thus they hype those horrible occurences and rarely report on the good things in life. if you were to ask an average american how much they thought crime had risen in the US over the past 10 years you might get answers like 300% or 400%. i know those were the answers i got when i asked. but as those of you who've seen the movie bowling for columbine (a well put together movie that can open many a eye) know crime in the united states has DROPPED 20%.

shocking no? well its true. i think its sad that we are so eager to watch these horrors, if its not shocking and/or terrible we might change the channel, and thats the last thing the media wants. i long for a world where the very notion of watching anothers tragedy is considered an awful deed and would make people sick... instead of encourage them to eat in front of the tv fearful that they might miss a murder or two should they get up to visit the bathroom.


sorry for my rant but sometimes i get fed up with the state of media attention attrocities get.

that being said: kstar i really feel for you man, thats just plain awful. i wish it were a better world. i know what its like to be scared because of stuff that happens close to home. you figure that these things will happen to somebody you dont know, some guy that you may have seen but surely not somebody you know personally and care about. problem is we're all somebody else to everybody else.

this threads ruined my good mood. keep your chin up and keep living.

Bob Gnarly
01-09-2003, 07:26 PM
well, if you read the book chrysalids you'll notice that the answer to your question is no, there is always a time, and when its up...we're gone! i just hope thats a long time, like the dinosours we will run out of time and ---.


But, speaking realistic. the core of the earth will burn us all up eventualy and we will die but being killed by each other is a possibility...people die, and everyone knows that but we should for no reason kill kids or woman, if men want to go to war thats where we go, thats our job to fight for our familys and protect what we belive in but; if we kill for the rush or because of spite, those people are dispicable, but the sad reality is, yes...yes we will wipe ourselves out.

STTCT
01-10-2003, 03:44 AM
Violence.... :cry7:

I dont' know if you've been reading cnn or if you have even heard about it, but there are two things that I think of right now when reading your stories.

Have you heard of the Van Dam case? The one about the little girl in California who was kidnapped from her (pot smoking and unfit parents) home. This guy took her away in his motorhome...did cruel things to her, murdered her and then burned her body in a camp fire. He got the Death Sentence the other day. If you'd believe it - neighbors actually saw him clean his bloody motorhome with bleach...dumb guy. There was another case not to long ago...I forget the girls name but it will come to me. This was in Lake Elsinore CA - about 20 min from me. A little 5 year old girl was kidnapped outside her grandma's apartment. The guy claimed he had a lost puppy and took her. Later Hanglider people found her body in a "serial killer" type style of a murder up in the hills somewhere. The murder was so gruesome that cops were crying all over tv. The finnaly found the guy - he was like what 30 or 40 living with his mom in an apartment. I guess his room was gross and dirty and it had a computer full of crap. I'm glad they caught this guy.

The other thing that was in the news was this woman who had 2 boys locked in a basement room in her apartment. The boys hardly had any food, they were not given the proper living conditions...if you can imagine what it be like to be little and locked inside a dark room for weeks on end. The boyfriend of the woman happend to go downstairs and found the boys that he claims he knew nothing about. One of the boys said he had a twin brother he hadn't seen in days. The cops found the other boy in a different room stuffed in a plastic container dead. They finnaly found the woman that was supposed to take care of the boys...I don't know what happened with this.

People are soo sick.

ShadowTemplar
01-10-2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Arkum
I think our generation is smarter, knows more about the world around us, and are more understandable, and give more respect to others different than us.

When I look at the teenagers that surround me, I fail to see that...

In general, they are more stupid, uneducated, undiciplined, and unwilling to work for knowledge than teenagers have ever been before (not to mention being less rationalistic).

If you have to be force-fed knowledge, you will also have your beliefs dictated unto you.

Some may mistake this malleability for tolerance, but that is just plain wrong.

Also, I disagree with the notion of "good people" and "bad people", because it presumes a universal set of morals.

crime in the united states has DROPPED 20%.

While I do not know the stats for the States, Denmark has also had a drop in the number of cases. However, the violence/crime that does exist becomes increasingly more brutal, according to the police.

sorry for my rant but sometimes i get fed up with the state of media attention attrocities get.

Yes. Absolutely right. Give this guy a bunch of flowers (I'm not joking). The media, IMO, zoom far too much in on other people's misery. I find it immoral, for example, when some reporter sticks a camera up under the nose of someone who is crying ect.

But, as Tolkien wrote, hearing about people having a good time gets boring fast.

Besides, one has to know what the problem is in order to address it. And, bottom line, that's what the media are there for. To tell people of the bad things. The good things aren't problems, and so aren't other people's business.

I think that, very basically, humans need frontiers to push. I believe that, in every society, young men with nothing worthwhile to do will accumulate. They go to war, or to claim new lands (one often leads to the other). Whether or not there is an enemy/land to claim. Therefore, I think that humans need to expand continously, or be destroyed by internecine wars.

Kstar__2
01-10-2003, 10:38 AM
Also, I disagree with the notion of "good people" and "bad people", because it presumes a universal set of morals.

i do not agree with that. when i look around, i can clearly see two kinds of teenagers, the one you descriped, with lack of discipline, but i also see alot more "smart" educated children. it really is a paradox, i don't know how this happened.


@STTC: mankind will destroy himself, íf we contain to live like this. we need drastic changes if we want to try to make the world "normal" again.

C'jais
01-10-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by kstar__2
i do not agree with that. when i look around, i can clearly see two kinds of teenagers, the one you descriped, with lack of discipline, but i also see alot more "smart" educated children. it really is a paradox, i don't know how this happened.

But there is no universal right and wrong, unless you want to believe there is. But that makes you the only judge on all matters, since you're the only one who know these morals.

I think you're mistaking universal right and wrong with "benefit to society or trash".

@STTC: mankind will destroy himself, íf we contain to live like this. we need drastic changes if we want to try to make the world "normal" again.

Kstar, look at history. We're getting more peaceful on a global scale. It's getting better. War will always exit until the whole earth unites their religions, ideals of what's best for everyone and resources. Not until then can there truly be peace.

Kstar__2
01-10-2003, 10:58 AM
and i do not believe that will happen, i think that there will only get a bigger and bigger gap between religions.

But there is no universal right and wrong, unless you want to believe there is. But that makes you the only judge on all matters, since you're the only one who know these morals.

i do not say that i believe that, and i am totally not trying to judge all, i'm merely telling what i see.

ShadowTemplar
01-10-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by kstar__2
i do not agree with that. when i look around, i can clearly see two kinds of teenagers, the one you descriped, with lack of discipline, but i also see alot more "smart" educated children. it really is a paradox, i don't know how this happened.

It's not a paradox. It is the result of an idiotic educational system. When the educational system fails, y'see, one's background and talents begin to exercise more and more influence on one's educational level.

Therefore, a bad educational system will produce "upper-caste" and "lower-caste" people, because some people are prompted by their parents to be curious, diciplined, hard-working, and honest. On the other hand, some are brought up to being useless, pathetic, spoiled fools, who do not seek knowledge. These are pretty much the extremes, and the great majority will fall inbetween.

Those who are raised to value knowledge and diciplin become those "smart" children, the rest become, well, the rest.

And if the school system fails, then there is nothing in the world to prevent those with poor upbringings from ending up on the bottom of the educational ladder.

Kstar, look at history. We're getting more peaceful on a global scale. It's getting better.

But we are still drowning our own butts in trash.

War will always exit until the whole earth unites their religions

Or better yet: Abolish religion, SWAN-style.

Bob Gnarly
01-10-2003, 12:43 PM
Or better yet: Abolish religion, SWAN-style.

Abolish religion!!?

noo that would be wrong, everyone needs something to belive in even if it is wrong or dumb, no matter what.

C'jais
01-10-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
But we are still drowning our own butts in trash.

Irrelevant. The topic is violence and peace on a global scale, and I must say we've progressed far from petty tribe wars.

Or better yet: Abolish religion, SWAN-style.

Unite all religion, or abolish it completely. Either way, it gets the job done.

ShadowTemplar
01-10-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Cjais
Irrelevant. The topic is violence and peace on a global scale, and I must say we've progressed far from petty tribe wars.

Point, point... But the thread title was "Will we survive ourselves?", so I think that it is relevant to the title...

Originally posted by Cjais
Unite all religion, or abolish it completely. Either way, it gets the job done.

Not true. Look at the Reformation, for example. It was a schism within a religion that tore Europe apart, Heresy-style (which was a good thing, because it tapped out Catholicism, allowing the European kings to give both Catholicism and Protestantism a good kick in the butt, from which they, thankfully, never recovered).

Abolish religion!!?

noo that would be wrong, everyone needs something to belive in even if it is wrong or dumb, no matter what.

No more than heroin addicts need heroin...

Bob Gnarly
01-10-2003, 01:07 PM
and its a sad facrt but most of us are addicted.

C'jais
01-10-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Point, point... But the thread title was "Will we survive ourselves?", so I think that it is relevant to the title...

True. But by the time that trash becomes a life threatening global problem, I hope mankind has devised a way to get rid of it (dematerialize it? who knows...). Failing that, we dump it into space or on other planets.

Not true. Look at the Reformation, for example.

Shhhh! Damn. Very well - a futuristic global religion would need require a lot of active belief then. A lot. So much, you might even call it blind, but it does get the job done.

El Sitherino
01-14-2003, 06:55 AM
As time goes by i start to think more and more that mankind is destined to fail and destroy itself.

Kstar__2
01-14-2003, 02:39 PM
heh, get your own thread:p

but yes, i also believe that punishment should be far more harder. if a man rapes someone in holland, the victim carries it her whole live, but the man is out of jail in two or three years, if not less, free to do it again.

they should live in jail for the rest of their lives.

i mean, we lock up people that take drugs from one country to another with 5 in one cell, but the really important crimes are punished way too soft :mad:

Kstar__2
01-14-2003, 03:24 PM
well chris (can i call you chris?) i think we can switch the subject, this is interesting too

Done. The new thread is called "The justice system".

And Jais will suffice ;) - Jais