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El Sitherino
01-11-2003, 01:26 PM
well should people be able to or do you think it is wrong.

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 01:30 PM
I think it's wrong because many men are not yet willing to father a child if they get a woman pregnant before they are married. I would be tempted to do it though I am ashamed to admit.

ET Warrior
01-11-2003, 01:42 PM
I'm kind of torn. I would really LIKE to wait until I'm married, because of the chances of STD's and pregnancy....but I'm not sure if the opportunity presented itself if I'd be able to stop myself.....damned hormones. ;)

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 01:56 PM
Yes same here.. I want to marry a virgin becasue of all the risks of STD's and the wife I choose will probably want the same thing from me.

C'jais
01-11-2003, 02:09 PM
Haven't you guys heard of sexual prevention, including condoms? :confused:

I think people should have the freedom to do what they want about this matter. Anything else just reeks of baseless traditions and stubborn conservatism.

{BK}SupremePain
01-11-2003, 02:10 PM
i got one thing to say... I WANNA MAKE SWEET LOVE BY THE FIRE!

ET Warrior
01-11-2003, 02:11 PM
Sexual prevention works MOST of the time.....but there are still times when it fails.....

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Cjais
Haven't you guys heard of sexual prevention, including condoms? :confused:

I think people should have the freedom to do what they want about this matter. Anything else just reeks of baseless traditions and stubborn conservatism.

And did you know that condoms have over a 25% chance of not working... its better to play it safe.

C'jais
01-11-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
And did you know that condoms have over a 25% chance of not working...

Not true :disaprove

Sexual prevention works MOST of the time.....but there are still times when it fails.....

Yes. But in general I think it'd be more dangerous to take a drive in your car.

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 02:27 PM
This is from http://www.dianedew.com/condom.htm

Studies have shown a condom failure rate of 10-33% for preventing pregnancies

So yes condoms are 67%-90% effective in preventing pregnancies.

{BK}SupremePain
01-11-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
And did you know that condoms have over a 25% chance of not working... its better to play it safe.

i believe condoms only have like a 3% chance of not working

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 02:31 PM
We must have posted at the same time so read my above post.

C'jais
01-11-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
This is from http://www.dianedew.com/condom.htm

So yes condoms are 67%-90% effective in preventing pregnancies.

That test is over 10 years old. Condoms have gotten better since that.

[EDIT] You know, that's the chance of an HIV virus infecting you. It's not the chance of getting pregnant.

{BK}SupremePain
01-11-2003, 02:35 PM
yes i saw right after..... but my human biologi book says diffrent... on a subjecrt like this i would never trust a internet site, becuase once i did a assignment on some guy.... cant reameber who... well the point is when i looked on the net for his birthdate i found 4 diffrent results...... and for his death i found 2.. im not saying that you cant trust the net but on a subject like this i wouldent

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 02:41 PM
Ok I admit I was wrong about the condoms... it has a 2% or less chance of failing :D I was actually going on what I learned last year in Sex Ed. in school.

But it goes against my religion and morals to have sex before marriage

C'jais
01-11-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
I was actually going on what I learned last year in Sex Ed. in school.

But it goes against my religion and morals to have sex before marriage

Ah ok, no problem. It's fine with me then.

Taos
01-11-2003, 07:39 PM
Well, it's too late for me, I've already done it. It's just a choice we all have to make, I'm not going to force my view upon somebody else and I would hope that another person would have the same respect towards me and my decision.

As far as I'm concerned it's ok either way.......one thing though, I wish I would have waited til I was a little bit older. I was 16 for my first try......man I wasn't ready at all......*shudders to think*

mercatfat
01-11-2003, 07:42 PM
This is one of the outdated philosophies in the bible*. Remember, back in the time it was written, there were no real forms of contraception. Even pulling out can potentially still make babies since precum has semen in it. These days, condoms are great and the pill, if taken correctly and everyday, is 99.9% effective.

Those 2% that fail are likely ones left in wallets, used incorrectly or are very cheap. If you're that worried, go with Trojans with Spermicidal Lubricant. They're practically infallible.

*All ancient history-based philosophical texts have outdated philosophy in them. Take Sun-tzu's The Art of War, for example. While a great guide to both life and warfare, certain advice given no longer rings true in modern society. Just read it, I don't feel like quoting and explaining right now.

I guess it's up to you though. I say live life without boundries as long as you aren't retarded about it.

ET Warrior
01-11-2003, 07:45 PM
I think the odds are that i won't last until I'm married..but I dont really know....i think i'll just go with the flow and if it comes along i'll go for it. ;)

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
I think the odds are that i won't last until I'm married..but I dont really know....i think i'll just go with the flow and if it comes along i'll go for it. ;)

Yes sadly that sounds like me to... Girls get me really horny if their doing things at a party and stuff. But I'll try and control myself. I hope I can last to marriage.

GonkH8er
01-11-2003, 08:55 PM
If we're supposed to wait until marriage, then why is there a legal age where we can? Shouldn't the law be 'you cant until youre married' then?


Personally, I think is sex is something everyone should enjoy. Sure, it's special, but why wait until you're in your thirties? As long as you're careful, and you and your partner trust eachother, it's a step you can take in a relationship. Sex is fun, there's no doubt about it.

What's the legal age's where you guys are from? just so i know...


It's 16 here... and 18 for homosexual men, which is just plain stupid.

Reborn Outcast
01-11-2003, 09:11 PM
Who said you're supposed to wait for marriage... I just said I wanted to.

Taos
01-11-2003, 09:55 PM
The legal age of consent where I live, in Washington state, is 16.

mercatfat
01-11-2003, 09:59 PM
It's only 16 in Washington? Sweet. Time to go get my mack on at the UW campus.

Rogue15
01-11-2003, 11:39 PM
I'm waiting til i get married. :D



and no, it's not ok according to the Bible and God, and most importantly: Kioet Csuhen.

why i think that is cause i think it could slightly damage a marriage. **** i rhymed, i rule, i r teh cool!

















PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [sorry, couldn't resist]

El Sitherino
01-12-2003, 12:41 AM
how do you know god doesnt want you to have sex before marriage? and if marriage is sanctified by god then how come alot of them dont work out? you think gods blessings would make things work. so ... also how you know though did he tell you? if you're catholic you know you according to catholic rules should be killed for hearing what god has to say before the pope. thats why joan of arc was killed or one of the reasons that is.

Darklighter
01-12-2003, 04:23 AM
Yes, I think so. Safe sex before marriage is okay IMO. Why am I against sex before marriage? Simple, because I don't believe in God anymore, but that is for a different discussion I think;)

Reborn Outcast
01-12-2003, 07:39 AM
Insane:
Some marriages don't last because they are rushed. People don't have that connection to their partner like God wants them to have or they are unfaithful to their partner which God doesn't want and thats why the marriage fails.

GonkH8er
01-12-2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Insane:
Some marriages don't last because they are rushed. People don't have that connection to their partner like God wants them to have or they are unfaithful to their partner which God doesn't want and thats why the marriage fails.

Most marriages don't last at all.... not just some marriages. Marriage is fast becoming a thing of the past. My prediction is that in 100 years, people wont be married as such. We'll have partners that we live with, just like steady dating, but if things go wrong, you won't be legally bound to that person for life. This will give the population more of a chance to find someone who they connect well with. Face it, how, out of 3 billion people (6 billion if youre bisexual and selfish :)) are you supposed to find your ideal partner in 20-30 years? You'll only spend the years after say, 15 looking. The more relationships you have, the more you'll know what works and what doesn't. What clicks with you and what explodes. Some guys just end up marrying the first girl they sleep with, and inevitably, things go wrong.

Things go wrong in most marriages anyway, but it spawns from not being right for eachother, because people settle down too quickly, and dont get a chance to get out there and find their 1 true love, if you dig that sorta thing.


I'm not saying go out there and screw everyone you date and to date often with that principle. I'm just saying, it's a waste of time and life waiting til you're legally bound to someone for life.

Only having sex with the 1 person in your ENTIRE life? Dieing only to ever have made love with 1 person. If that's your bag, so be it.


If sex was just for reproduction, it wouldn't be pleasurable. The fact that it IS pleasurable is why we do it. We want to share that pleasure with people.

It's one of the few things that is truly amazing and can just make us forget about all the crap in this world.


if you find someone you truly care about and trust, and the feeling is returned... and you both want to share something amazing and close with eachother, don't wait til you're married. Enjoy sex. Enjoy life. Enjoy eachother. Just be careful.

-s/<itzo-
01-12-2003, 08:44 AM
yeah if were talking about morals, sex before marriage is bad.

but sex is a natural instinct so you really can't argue with that.

obi
01-12-2003, 08:56 AM
I do not have sex with people, but that is just me I guess....

I don't because I was warned to stay away from it untill I have married someone I loved, not someone I lust for. The mind can come up with so many things, and your feelings would get switched if you did not have a clear mind.

I have always practiced abstinance. I find that I am stronger because I have the ability to resist temptation.
;)

GonkH8er
01-12-2003, 09:37 AM
Oh everyone has the ability to resist... some people just realise that waiting has no real purpose, unless you truly believe for some reason that you should only share sex with 1 person in your lifetime.

Reborn Outcast
01-12-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by GonkH8er
If sex was just for reproduction, it wouldn't be pleasurable. The fact that it IS pleasurable is why we do it. We want to share that pleasure with people.

It's one of the few things that is truly amazing and can just make us forget about all the crap in this world.


Yes it maeks you forget about all that crap in the world until you come down with an STD for banging so many people to share a pleasure. Then the crap in the world smacks you in the face because you've just f***** up any chance that you had of, if you find the right person, having a child.

ET Warrior
01-12-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by GonkH8er
Oh everyone has the ability to resist... some people just realise that waiting has no real purpose, unless you truly believe for some reason that you should only share sex with 1 person in your lifetime.

Actually, i know a LOT of people who DONT have the ability to resist. ;)

I respect your ideals obi-wan...and so FAR i've been practicing abstinence.

Reborn Outcast
01-12-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I do not have sex with people, but that is just me I guess....

I don't because I was warned to stay away from it untill I have married someone I loved, not someone I lust for. The mind can come up with so many things, and your feelings would get switched if you did not have a clear mind.

I have always practiced abstinance. I find that I am stronger because I have the ability to resist temptation.
;)

Yes obi same here. I belive in God and his word and it says that sex is sacred and that it should wait for marriage otherwise your temple (soul) will have been defiled.

obi
01-12-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by GonkH8er


If sex was just for reproduction, it wouldn't be pleasurable. The fact that it IS pleasurable is why we do it. We want to share that pleasure with people.



The way I see it, when you grow closer to the Lord, and walk closer with him, one will begin to realize the difference betwen sin and pleasure.

Tyrion
01-12-2003, 04:51 PM
I really dont see the difference of not being married and being married. All the difference is that you have a binding contract for it.(Which means they sometimes arent together because they want to,but because they have to or else).

Sure,I wont go masterbating at everyone I meet,but if I met someone i really really loved and knew her for a while,then I'd do it,married or not.

El Sitherino
01-12-2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Tyrion
if I met someone i really really loved and knew her for a while,then I'd do it,married or not. exactly what i would do.

Reborn Outcast
01-12-2003, 05:48 PM
Tyrion: That binding contract is a huge difference. If your married you can't just "break up", you have to get a divorce and pay her money for child support (since you want to have sex so much I'm assuming your going to have a child by then ;) ). But that binding contract is a lot more work and money in the long run but it is a lot more precious and a lot better than not marrying someone but still having sex.

Tyrion
01-12-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Tyrion: That binding contract is a huge difference. If your married you can't just "break up", you have to get a divorce and pay her money for child support (since you want to have sex so much I'm assuming your going to have a child by then ;) ). But that binding contract is a lot more work and money in the long run but it is a lot more precious and a lot better than not marrying someone but still having sex.

What's so special about a contract that just says you are married? Isnt love enough?

Knowing that your partner isnt in it because she has to,but because she needs to?

Reborn Outcast
01-12-2003, 06:09 PM
I mean on paper and in the heart. Because your not married means that she can go off and bang anyone she wants and not get in any legal troubles. But if you bind each other together then your showing that she is the only one that you will ever truly love. People that get divorced didn't have real love... only a fleeting moment of it in the grand perspective.

Tyrion
01-12-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
I mean on paper and in the heart. Because your not married means that she can go off and bang anyone she wants and not get in any legal troubles. But if you bind each other together then your showing that she is the only one that you will ever truly love. People that get divorced didn't have real love... only a fleeting moment of it in the grand perspective.

Well,you should be trusting for her. Besides,that's like saying why you shouldnt get married instead of being together.

And I do plan on marrying them,I just dont think I'd have to wait until I am married to have sex with them.

El Sitherino
01-12-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Tyrion
I do plan on marrying them,I just dont think I'd have to wait until I am married to have sex with them. same thing here man.

-s/<itzo-
01-12-2003, 06:32 PM
To those who are waiting till they get married, good for you.


i'm proud of you guys. much props given to yah'.

XWING5
01-12-2003, 06:54 PM
To those who want to wait 'til marriage, I have all the respect for you guys and hope it works out for you.
For me, I couldn't really wait, but I am kind of glad, at the same time, that I got it out of the way. I don't think I believe that it is wrong so much, though I think it is admirable to find someone you love first. But like I say, I couldn't do it.
:thumbsup:

Ratmjedi
01-12-2003, 08:34 PM
Well personally I am a virgin. I do belive that sex before marriage should be allowed but with the correct circumstances. I mean if you are a guy or a girl and your screwing everyone than it is wrong.

I belive that if you are going to do it with someone that you do it with someone that you really care about and that you would consider getting married with. It would improve your relationship with that person and make it more intimate. It is also about sharing something special with that person. I also belive that you should always have sex with a condom untill you are married and then you could take it off. Sex is something that almost everyone who is of the right age does with the exception of a few people. Waiting till marriage is a good idea but you are missing out on expierence. There are so many ways of doing it that it will just make you better at it and show you new things. What if you get married and the person that you are married to sucks at sex and your relationship doesn't work out or they both feel uncomfortabe doing it? Doing it before marriage just makes shows if you the two people are that comfortable to share such a intimate expierence such as that.

:lsduel: :duel:

Arreat
01-12-2003, 10:00 PM
It aint right, many people do this maybe so they can attempt to get out of having to take care of the baby since it takes alot of money and time just to raise one.

ET Warrior
01-12-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Ratmjedi
What if you get married and the person that you are married to sucks at sex and your relationship doesn't work out or they both feel uncomfortabe doing it?

That is one of my fears.....on my wedding night i get in bed with my wife and she laughs at my puny efforts (pun intended)

RpTheHotrod
01-13-2003, 02:50 AM
I strongly believe in sex AFTER marriage. It's hard to explain...but..well Tyrion, people really don't know what love is. You can get such a feeling, that you THINK it's love, but...well...ask your parents. They don't just REALLY LIKE eachother, they'd do anything for eachother (hopefully...)

Also, I'm a Christian, and the Bible DOES teach to wait until marriage. Having sex binds 2 people into one person physically....you gotta know your science to really understand that though.

Even if it was okay, it's very dangerous. yeah, people go around having sex all the time, but soon enough, they will go to their doctor and he'll say something that will change their lives until death.

Yes, you can truly love someone before marriage (that's what marriage is for), but you really don't know until afterwards.

GonkH8er
01-13-2003, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Yes it maeks you forget about all that crap in the world until you come down with an STD for banging so many people to share a pleasure. Then the crap in the world smacks you in the face because you've just f***** up any chance that you had of, if you find the right person, having a child.



Yes, indeed, but I said, have sex in moderation. I said DONT just go sleeping around. And I believe I also said be careful, which means use a condom, which means there's only a very small chance of catching STD's...


Oh, and I do respect people who want to wait, contrary to how I may appear to be. I just think it's silly.

The bible teaches us lots of things, like to outcast homosexuals, and various other acts we've deemed 'passŤ' and we don't do anymore. Who's to say that no sex until marriage won't soon become the same, and we'll forget it.

They teach it in the bible, because, back in 'bible times', they didnt have 'contraception', so therefore, in 'bible times', 'sex' would result in 'pregnancy' most of the time. You only had 'sex' in 'bible times' to make a 'baby'. Sex has changed a lot in 2000 years. Sure, the basic mechanics of it are the same, apart from the occasional use to various other orifices... but the reasons we do it have changed. From my limited knowledge of bible times, I'm pretty sure that teenagers dating didn't sleep with eachother as soon as they felt comfortable about it. They waited til marriage so they could support the child it would produce. Nowadays, we can pretty much make sure it doesn't produce a child, so we're free to enjoy it, and enjoy it we shall, at the right time with the right person, in the right location, weather permitting.

Andy867
01-13-2003, 04:14 AM
For me, I am kinda screwed (literally), but with my girlfriend still being a virgin, its like there is a second chance for me as well. And the whole thing about condoms. If the woman is on birth control, uses a diaphragm, and the guy uses a condom, then there is less than a 1% chance of getting the woman pregnant, especially if she is on Depo-Provera or the patch-like birth control.

And for me, I am waiting to get with my girl for more when she is ready because for her, it will be her first time, and she is wanting to be sure she is doing it with a guy that will still be there in the end, despite my reassurances that I am not leaving any time soon or in the far seen future. But right now I am needing to wait because she is still in college and I am working for my computer certifications, and even with all the precautions, the last thing I need on my mind is knowing that my girl is pregnant, even though I'd stick around to see it through and be there for my girl and our child.

But its all up to you guys, and whether or not you are willing to take that risk of knocking up the girl and months down the road, things go sour, and the two of you end up breaking it off. Its a choice for each and every one of you.

El Sitherino
01-13-2003, 06:04 PM
man if i knocked up my gf you could bet all your money id stick with her. my friend got knocked up and her bf left her. man i was so mad me and some other friends went to his house and beat him up. (he had been hitting her saying it was her fault and threatened to kill her)

RpTheHotrod
01-13-2003, 06:59 PM
Careful now, you're saying times have changed, and the Bible is out-dated and shouldn't be followed. That could be put several ways...like many other things the Bible says not do to and has "changed"

RpTheHotrod
01-13-2003, 07:04 PM
Here's another thing to think about.

The Bible teaches against lust.

People say themselves that they have sex for pleasuer, and not for reproduction. So, wouldn't having sex for plessure be lust?

Andy867
01-13-2003, 07:08 PM
Strange how soem guys like your friend's b/f actually accuse girls and say its their fault for getting knocked up, seeing as how just like an arguement, it takes two. That's another good point. I don't see why men feel they have to hit women. I remember the last time a guy hit one of my friends... Lets just say the medic centre had trouble keeping the guy from going into traumatic shock. I know, it was of my friend and I to do that, but least it taught the guy eventually to never hit a girl/woman. And he hasn't since. Although, since then he hasn't had a girlfriend to hit either, but he knows not to. All people have to do is point at his crotch and face, and it reminds him real fast.

C'jais
01-13-2003, 07:09 PM
Love is lust is pleasure. Put sex somewhere in between that, and you'll have my view on this.

InsaneSith, Andy: :disaprove

Reborn Outcast
01-13-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by GonkH8er
The bible teaches us lots of things, like to outcast homosexuals, and various other acts we've deemed 'passŤ' and we don't do anymore. Who's to say that no sex until marriage won't soon become the same, and we'll forget it.

They teach it in the bible, because, back in 'bible times', they didnt have 'contraception', so therefore, in 'bible times', 'sex' would result in 'pregnancy' most of the time. You only had 'sex' in 'bible times' to make a 'baby'. Sex has changed a lot in 2000 years. Sure, the basic mechanics of it are the same, apart from the occasional use to various other orifices... but the reasons we do it have changed. From my limited knowledge of bible times, I'm pretty sure that teenagers dating didn't sleep with eachother as soon as they felt comfortable about it. They waited til marriage so they could support the child it would produce. Nowadays, we can pretty much make sure it doesn't produce a child, so we're free to enjoy it, and enjoy it we shall, at the right time with the right person, in the right location, weather permitting.

The Bible was written for ALL time periods. Its not the examples they use (thats to help explain it) but the whole principle of it. If God says its wrong to have sex before marriage then its wrong. If God says do not covet your neighbors possessions or wife then don't. The Bible was written not just to read, but to think about and find out what God is really trying to tell us. Many stories are written in riddles and that is to get us thinking so it will have a deeper impact when we know what it means.

Andy867
01-13-2003, 09:07 PM
What, the guy can still have kids, it will just be very painful with that 3" scar. They say peace can be achieved without war. Well, what would happen if my friend and I didn't intervene. How many other girls would be beaten? Its like that theory that states that there is a man and a peace-wanting man. The man hits the peace-wanting man, but when the peace-wanting man goes to hit the other man, the man stops him and says that their beliefs prevent violence... So the peace-wanting man doesn't hit him, but after so many times, the peace-wanting can only take so much.

Katarn07
01-13-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior
I'm kind of torn. I would really LIKE to wait until I'm married, because of the chances of STD's and pregnancy....but I'm not sure if the opportunity presented itself if I'd be able to stop myself.....damned hormones. ;)

Same here. i think it's wrong, even if you're engaged. I don't want a girlfriend for two reasons.

This and the fact that my sister's life with her boyfriends is a nightmare! I'll wait a couple of years yet, when the girls in my school calm down and mature. I thought they were supposed to mature before guys. Jeez!

colonel_stryker
01-14-2003, 12:53 AM
I confess I don't know how well condoms prevent pregnancy, but there is two things I know. Latex actually has microscopic holes that vary in size from 1 to 5 microns in diameter. The human immunodeficiency virus (good ol' HIV) is approximately 0.5 microns in diameter. How's that food for thought?

GonkH8er
01-14-2003, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
The Bible was written for ALL time periods. Its not the examples they use (thats to help explain it) but the whole principle of it. If God says its wrong to have sex before marriage then its wrong.

If you're a christian.....

If you're not, then you won't give a damn what that God thinks...

If you're not, well then you're going to hell anyway.

God can think that all he likes, but I'm not going on something that was written 2000 odd years ago. Times HAVE changed. Technology has changed. Sex has changed. We have contraception. We can have sex without creating a child, if we're safe.


I don't want to sound like a sexaholic or a manwhore. I just think it's silly to limit your life-long sexual experiences to one person.

Luc Solar
01-14-2003, 03:47 AM
(Didn't read all the posts, sorry.)

This whole sex before marriage-thing is passť.

One has to think about the reasons why marriage should precede sex:

1) The Bible says so.

--> A whole bunch of the people in the world are not Christians. Yet, this questions is IMHO universal. Why would it be okay to have sex before marriage in Bahrain but not in Monaco? Makes no sense, right? So let's just drop the whole "Teh BIBLE sayeth so"-argument (if you don't want to discuss whether or not The Bible allows sex before marriage, not the issue in general, that is. :) )

Oh crap. I have to go. You will have to wait another hour or so for the fruits of my wisdom. :D

Brb.

C'jais
01-14-2003, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
The Bible was written for ALL time periods. Its not the examples they use (thats to help explain it) but the whole principle of it. If God says its wrong to have sex before marriage then its wrong. If God says do not covet your neighbors possessions or wife then don't. The Bible was written not just to read, but to think about and find out what God is really trying to tell us. Many stories are written in riddles and that is to get us thinking so it will have a deeper impact when we know what it means.

This is circular reasoning and nothing else. You believe in the Bible because it tells you so. That's not rational. I could write a piece of paper that told everyone to believe in Me as God. And it'd be just as true as the Bible.

And may I use this oppurtunity to highlight the fact that women in the example given above are placed side by side with "possessions". Don't you think that's a little bit immoral?

El Sitherino
01-14-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Cjais
This is circular reasoning and nothing else. You believe in the Bible because it tells you so. That's not rational. I could write a piece of paper that told everyone to believe in Me as God. And it'd be just as true as the Bible.

And may I use this oppurtunity to highlight the fact that women in the example given above are placed side by side with "possessions". Don't you think that's a little bit immoral? cjais got ya there. so pardon me while i chuckle.:p

Luc Solar
01-14-2003, 05:28 AM
Here's a link for all you guys who are interested in the Bible:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women_list.html


Circular reasoning is dumb just as Cjais said. (I say I am the coolest and thus I really must be the coolest because I say so.)

Anyways; there used to be good reasons why sex wasn't allowed before marriage (f.ex):

Unwanted pregnancies

---> bastards were practically stoned to death. Nowadays it is not so. A whole lot of children are born before their parents are married and just about everyone (except very conservative religious narrow-minded people) see nothing wrong with that.

And why would there be anything wrong with it? Mommy and Daddy loves each other and wanted to have a child. What's the problem? The Bible again? Oh please! :mad:

So what if the couple is stranded on a desert island? Can't they ever have children because there isn't a priest around? Will they face Gods wrath if they do?

What if a couple gets married (and has sex) but due to technicalities the law of the state where they live in won't accept the marriage as valid (perhaps the priest had just been fired the day before or something) ?

Does the Bible say all gay people should be slaughtered because they are an abomination to god? I believe so. Does the Bible oppose the very basis of gender equality? Sure does.

Take this for example: "When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do"

WTF is that?

So you say that I must sacrifice some random woman (or my wife, perhaps?) if I happen to sin? I just coveted Jessica Alba in the thread in the swamp.. damn... I guess I must cut my wife's throat when she gets home then. Too bad, huh? Oh well, her parent's will surely understand, 'cause I'm only following the will of God.

Really, even thinking about the stuff that the Bible ORDERS us to do makes me sick. And I'm not kidding, either. Writing the paragraph above made me feel physically sick and now I'm pissed off too. :mad:

(Some of you probably also noted that a male GOAT is way more precious than a woman)

I don't *ever* want to see the God/Bible-argument again if it is not a topic that concerns the Bible itself!

Use the Bible to back up things like "people should be nice to each other", but leave more detailed questions alone.

The message of the Bible could be fit into one single page, and personally I would prefer that.
Go ahead and follow the Bibles most general guidelines, but try to understand that otherwise

...brace yourselves...


the book is passť

El Sitherino
01-14-2003, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Here's a link for all you guys who are interested in the Bible:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women_list.html

[snip]

No need to quote his entire post for this - C'jais

i think i like you. welcome to my not an enemy list. :) oh and well said. i think its stupid that a goat was(could still be) held higher than a woman.

Luc Solar
01-14-2003, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
i think i like you. welcome to my not an enemy list. :) oh and well said. i think its stupid that a goat was(could still be) held higher than a woman.

Oh cool! So does this mean I get to be in your sig with the asian women and microwavable pizza? j/k ;)

I have a thing for asian women too, but I'm not that crazy about pizza or anime...sorry dude :p

El Sitherino
01-14-2003, 06:30 AM
its ok cant have everything i guess.

STTCT
01-14-2003, 08:16 AM
:::::walks into thread pregnant and engaged::::

Hum....what do you think my opinion on this subject is?

Do ya care? Oh well I'm going to give it anyway. Since...hum. Dunno. I'm tired right now so I'll just rant!

Sex before marriage should be a mutual thing. It is a big step and I feel that you should only do it in a loving relationship. That way if you do end up pregnant or your girlfriend you two will be able to handle the consequences of sex. Whether that be having to decide on an abortion, keeping the child or giving the child up for adoption. Also, STD's. I think that the people having sex should be responsible - make sure your partner doesn't have AIDS or STD's. And also what I mean by mutual thing - is that you both come to an understanding that you do not want to wait, it bothers neither one of you, you understand it can change the relationship significantly and that you are doing it with someone you trust. That's why I think it should only be done in a loving relationship.

To me - marriage is more than a piece of paper. If you are religious then it means that you and your significant other make a promise to god. Along the lines of faithfulness and pledge your lives to one another. It is a much more significant thing to me to get married rather than having sex. Sex is more about responsibilty etc. I think that's why god didn't want us to have sex outside of marriage. etc. etc.

If you are planning on waiting. Good for you! You have a lot more determination than I did. For those of you who did not or will not then my advice to you is to always be careful and remember that it comes with much more responsibilty than you first realise, so make sure its someone you care about.

Thats my two cents.

ZBomber
01-26-2003, 12:56 AM
Well, I'm 13,, so I;m obiosuly a virgin.... unless....

lol. Anyway. What do you guys think if your engaged. Would it be OK to have sex than? Or still wait?

El Sitherino
01-26-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by ZBomber
Well, I'm 13,, so I;m obiosuly a virgin.... unless....

lol. Anyway. What do you guys think if your engaged. Would it be OK to have sex than? Or still wait? i think its ok since you're marrying them.

obi
01-26-2003, 08:09 AM
Engaged doesn't mean you will be marrying them. I know several people that were engaged, and their relationship went all kablooie.

daring dueler
01-26-2003, 11:08 AM
i feel chastity is important but if you really love the person and arnt drunk i say its ok marrige is good but if your obviously commited and wouldnt hurt eachother its fine, people say ohh its a sin but isnt god supposed to want love, and forgive its not big, now also the pron=blem of aids and other things are about so obviously be safe and really know ur partner.

NerfYoda
01-27-2003, 03:39 PM
I believe that standing up to temptation does not make you a stronger man. All it does is keep a corner of your mind occupied with whatever you're trying to abstain against. Giving into your temptation will make you a stronger person I argue. Adam Smith said that society as a whole benifits when it's members are trying solely to benifit themselves. He said this in an economic context, but it's easily adaptible to social situations.

What would be a more productive society? A group of sexually frustrated folks who spend 1/2 their time not giving into temptation, or a group that (ideally) does what they want within moderation. It's the former situation that leads to all the priest sex abuse scandals. Sex is human nature. It was designed to be pleasurable to make us want to reproduce. But nowadays we have ways to prevent pregnancy. It's all of the good with a negligable amount of bad, provided you follow the right methods.

We're all utilitarians at heart, so follow the saying: "if it feels good, do it."

Gonk: marriage will still be around in 100 years for this one reason: wedding gifts. :D But yeah. I know quite a few people who rushed into marriage because they were abstaining their whole lives. After these people finally had sex they realized they were incompatible and ended up separated and angry. Before you get married you should know everything about your partner.

I deleted the double post, hope it's cool. Good point, too - C'jais

vegietto
02-01-2003, 12:46 AM
if we want to do it then we can no one can stop me from doing and if we decided we want to then we can if we want but if it just happened it still is ok but if some people want to wait then they can but not me i'm not going to wait because i might not ever get married and that would really suck

obi
02-01-2003, 09:46 AM
@NerfYoda

Perhaps I should rephrase what I said earlier.


"Resisting temptation will make you stronger"

Changed to

"Resisting temptation will make you a stronger christian"

The Bible says that if you look at a woman to lust after her, then you are an adulterer at heart. When I talk to a female, I try to keep my eyes on her eyes, and not let the wander off :p

If you do practice the Bible, good for you. If not, I wish you did, but more power to you anyway.

vegietto
02-01-2003, 10:23 AM
me + my gf decieded if we want to do that or not but i used the bible but not as often as i should

Reborn Outcast
02-01-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by NerfYoda
Adam Smith said that society as a whole benifits when it's members are trying solely to benifit themselves. He said this in an economic context, but it's easily adaptible to social situations.

I disagree because take a look at Enron... the owners were trying solely to benefit themselves and look what it did to the economy. Enron is what started the downslide of the US economy. I believe that Adam Smith was right in some cases, but very wrong in others.

greedo626
02-02-2003, 12:24 PM
I don't think people should have sex before marriage because it might lead to a child. then if you descide you don't really like the person you're sleeping with, there's another single parent out there and another child without a steady mother or father. But you should really get to know the person you're going to marry and not jump into it too soon. and don't get married just to have sex:p

zERoCooL2479
02-06-2003, 03:24 PM
I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage. If two people love eachother, sex is an additional and greater way of showing those feelings. There are contraceptives available to prevent any "accidents." Use your head people if you're going to enguage in sexual acts.

munik
02-06-2003, 08:05 PM
Nothing wrong with a little scrogging.

Quick comparision:
A person who denies their hunger and refuses to eat because they believe they are fat, when in fact they are under wieght, is said to have anorexia nervosa. They believe one thing, which to them, and others with the same affliction, appears true, while everyone else who sees them knows this belief to be false.

A person who denies their libido and refuses to have sex until they are married, because they believe this will defile their bodies, is said to be a christian. They believe one thing, which to them, and others with the same affliction, appears true, while everyone else who sees them knows this belief to be false.


What STD's are there that will really ruin your day? HIV has a great chance to screw you up, and it's hard to stop it once you got it, but what else? Genital warts, HPV, has a chance to damage the female reproductive system. That's about all I can think of. Everything else is treatable. Now, granted, if left untreated they can cause irreperable harm or death, but so won't any serious wound that's left untreated. If you get the drippy dick or the inferno piss and don't see a doctor for some penicillin, that's your own fault.


Am I the only one who noticed this?Originally posted by Luc Solar
Take this for example: "When a king sins only the best sacrifice will do -- he must offer a male goat to God. But if a commoner sins, a female will do" Dude, the passage refers to a FEMALE GOAT! It's all in context, you are the one who assumed that the word "female" meant "female human", when clearly it refered to a goat. You went on for a few paragraphs about this woman thing. I'd like to say that it's similiar to a Freudian slip, but it's more likely you seeing what you wanted to see.

Oh, and finally, the only people who use the bible in a discussion that doesn't directly relate to the bible are zealots and children. Children taught by zealots. So please, leave the bible out of it, having to argue against "Cause it's in the Bible!" makes any discussion lose it's appeal. Maybe we'd like to see what you think, not what the bible thinks. Jesus doesn't post to this board, so nobody cares what he would do.