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C'jais
01-13-2003, 05:56 PM
Are you afraid of not existing?

Sleeping might be the closest we'll ever get to it, while living, and that doesn't seem so bad to me. The tough part is waking up again.

Based on the replies in the Abortion thread, I don't think many people are able to set aside their self and view the world without it. Our view, understanding and appreciation of it are so closely tied to our physical existance that it's nigh impossible to seperate our self and our environment.

We all follow empty goals. They are, of course, not empty to us, but when viewed from outside, they seem hollow. My world view is shattered whenever I see a demented person. His insanity makes me realize that I have strived hard to achieve a respectable place in my community, that I long for acceptance, that the only thing that stops me from oblivion is my yearning for sympathy and pleasure. But it is all for naught in the end. The stupid person has a much more simple life. He strives to achieve the same things, yet we feel pity for him. We detest him. Yet we are but more advanced in our never ending search for positive stimuli. We are just the same as him, and as animals.

In sleep I feel nothing. Nothing is not a negative feeling. It's literally nothing. At the end of my life, I'd like to close the book and call it a day. Then fade into the background. The world will go on without me just fine, and I won't feel any sad about it. My self, my focal point for my self-affirmation will now equal that of a rock. You can't say I won't simply care about my friends and family after I'm dead. Caring is an active feeling, but when I am no longer there, it makes no sense to talk about it that way. I will still be there after death, if your world view is so tied to the material aspects of it - In that sense, "I" will still be there in the form of a corpse, and in your mind.

If only I could step outside my self. If that was done, I'd feel the uselessness of clinging to this hook of self-assurance and let go. But I'm afraid I won't experience that until after I'm dead. At which point it makes no matter anymore.

Tyrion
01-13-2003, 07:15 PM
Why worry about it? It's impossible to stop. It's not 100% sure. And what do you gain thinking about it?

I just live my life to the fullest,every moment. I have none to waste.

El Sitherino
01-13-2003, 07:26 PM
i live my life to the fullest. when im in school i think about these things though. got nothin better to do in school. i already know what they teachin. so. and im prepared for death.

Reborn Outcast
01-13-2003, 09:44 PM
Yes I try to do my best to help people. I think the best I can do is just be a good person, be a good Christian and spread my religion to other people, play sports and have fun while helping in my community, getting good grades, graduating with Honors from highschool and College, getting my varsity jacket (Only 1 more letter and i'm a freshmen in highschool :) ), being a 3 sport maniac and then thinking way into the future, getting a good job having a loving wife and family and dying a respected citizen. I know it seems like a lot but we have our whole life to do it. And don't think about death, it will drive you crazy someday. :) Because we know its coming and it'll get to us 100% guranteed so why worry.

Katarn07
01-13-2003, 10:19 PM
Eternal life scares the hell outta me! Heaven or hell. Forever???

I'd rather just die and not be alive then live in heaven forever. It depends on what you do there? The Bible doesn't go in depth about this at all, does it?

Reborn Outcast
01-13-2003, 10:28 PM
Yes the Bible does. It says that in heaven your days are full of the most amazing thing you have ever felt and that you spend all your time singing and praising God and that your days will never grow dim. About hell.. well lets just say you don't want to go there.

Katarn07
01-13-2003, 10:53 PM
I see.

Well, I guess since we are corrupted by men's many creations, God unfortunately isn't our #1 thing in life, so heaven didn't sound to appealing. But I guess it is better than both hell and non-exisitance.

And when your dead, no wordly possesions will be there, so the greatest thing to do there would be to praise God. That is comforting, considering I've missed the past 3 church services at my church...

Hey, Lent's coming up! I promise not to skip church to see Nemesis and LotR: TTT...

Wacky_Baccy
01-14-2003, 07:56 AM
Posted by Cjais
[b]Are you afraid of not existing?No. :)

I'm actually rather looking forward to it, to be honest :D
In sleep I feel nothing. Nothing is not a negative feeling. It's literally nothing. At the end of my life, I'd like to close the book and call it a day. Then fade into the background.Same here :)
Posted by Reborn Outcast
Yes I try to do my best to help people.Excellent. Nothing at all wrong with that :)
I think the best I can do is just be a good person, be a good Christian and spread my religion to other peopleYou know, that makes you sound remarkably like a virus, and Christianity like a disease... (Seriously no offence meant; I just happened to notice the similarities, that's all :))

Perhaps another thread is in order... *goes off to think*

El Sitherino
01-14-2003, 07:59 AM
i hope when i die there is nothing only eternal sleep or at least a communative dream where everyone who dies shares the dream. like a huge community. a life after death where anything is possible.

C'jais
01-14-2003, 09:39 AM
It's possible and fact that if you damage your brain, your memory sometimes go out the window. Someone I know fell down some stairs and began to have trouble remembering his own name.

What happens when we die? Our brain dies. Our memory dies. Based on this, in the life after death we will have no memory of our past life. Our self might vanish as well, but I'm thinking that several people in here like the Neo-Platonic outlook on this, likely stating that you can seperate physical and mental existance. While this may be true, it has not been proved so far.

Everyone that longs for a life after death has failed to realize the hollowness of desiring such pleasure. You are still swimming in the sea of Samsara.

Going off a Buddhist tangent here - C'jais

All IMHO.

Katarn07
01-14-2003, 03:17 PM
Jesus being risen from the dead has yet tro be proven, yet many people believe it to be true....

And if you beleive that, then you would hopefully belive going to heaven/ hell.

Reborn Outcast
01-14-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Wacky_Baccy
You know, that makes you sound remarkably like a virus, and Christianity like a disease... (Seriously no offence meant; I just happened to notice the similarities, that's all :))

No offence taken... I am a religious person and these are my goals for my religion. :)

Lost Welshman
01-14-2003, 05:47 PM
I find its best just not to worry, dont live life to the fullest because you die faster. Just go about your buisness, you do not need to see my identifica.... sorry. Anyway, Maybe your making a fuss over nothing, maybe when we die we carry on as if we didnt die, and when we die of old age then we get to go to the pensioners home in the sky that we call, heaven some people call it K-PAX but thats because they watch to much tv.

Mandalorian54
01-16-2003, 02:54 PM
This is the way I think of heaven based on what the bible says about it.

imagine the funest thing you have ever done, then multiply it times infinite.

and hell, the worst thing that ever happened to you times infinite.

thats what I think about when I do wrong, and it makes me want to do right and live for God.

For some people death is a scary thing. But for a Christian we are so willing to die for GOD because we know we will be going to a better place. And suffering for GODs sake is the best thing that can happen to a Christian in his walk. Since Jesus suffered the ultimite price for us.

FunClown
01-17-2003, 09:54 AM
Death is interesting. But if I'm ever in the situation where I think I'm going to die I'm usually calm. Like my mind relaxes and says, well your going to die anyway so just accept it.

Tyrion
01-17-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
For some people death is a scary thing. But for a Christian we are so willing to die for GOD because we know we will be going to a better place. And suffering for GODs sake is the best thing that can happen to a Christian in his walk. Since Jesus suffered the ultimite price for us.

Which is death...

But arent we all going to die? And what about Martyr's who die for Christianity? Didnt they also pay the ultimate price?

And Jesus didnt really suffer the ultimate price,because he went to heaven afterwords,correct? So that he just died for us,basically,and went to heaven...not alot of pain involved..well,for what his reward was.

Edit- If god is so loving and caring,why does he demand suffering to make you go to heaven?

(This is not trying to bellittle Christianity or anything,I just wanted some answers for those).

ET Warrior
01-17-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Tyrion
Which is death...

But arent we all going to die? And what about Martyr's who die for Christianity? Didnt they also pay the ultimate price?

And Jesus didnt really suffer the ultimate price,because he went to heaven afterwords,correct? So that he just died for us,basically,and went to heaven...not alot of pain involved..well,for what his reward was.

Edit- If god is so loving and caring,why does he demand suffering to make you go to heaven?

(This is not trying to bellittle Christianity or anything,I just wanted some answers for those).

Well, first off, Christ died in an extremely painful way, and then he spent his first three days in Hell, being tormented by Satan, before he rose and went to heaven.

He doesn't demand suffering for us to enter heaven. But we know that if we are suffering for Him, then he will know it and reward us. but if we simply live our life for him with no suffering attached we will be let into heaven.

And no, we christians don't really believe we die.....we will have immortal life in heaven with God.

leXX
01-17-2003, 11:43 AM
I never have been afraid of death, it's innevitable so why worry about it. I could get run over tommorow or die 30 years from now of lung cancer, either way I'm gonna be worm food eventually so why waste time even thinking about it. When I die, I will finally have the long uninterupted sleep that I have desired for years.

Luc Solar
01-17-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
But for a Christian we are so willing to die for GOD because we know we will be going to a better place. And suffering for GODs sake is the best thing that can happen to a Christian in his walk. Since Jesus suffered the ultimite price for us.


Now that is scary. Sounds exactly like those suicidal bombers.

They've been told that there is no greater honour than to die as a martyr (i.e. blow yourself up in the midde of disbelievers). And when you die you'll get to heaven and there'll be 7 beautiful virgins waiting for you.

O.o

Reborn Outcast
01-17-2003, 01:44 PM
But if we blow ourself up to impress God that doesn't impress him... if we kill non-believers for God he does NOT like that... If we do that type of stuff... we go to hell.

C'jais
01-17-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
But if we blow ourself up to impress God that doesn't impress him... if we kill non-believers for God he does NOT like that... If we do that type of stuff... we go to hell.

Yet this is what both protestants and catholics have been doing for years.

Check your history book.

In theory, no you shouldn't do it. In practice you'd do it if you were pressed enough, as history clearly shows.

Reborn Outcast
01-17-2003, 01:50 PM
Yet I am not protestant or catholic. :) I'm just saying that even if people do that for God.. they will go to hell unless they have a major breakdown and their heart is changed forever and they ask for forgiveness.

C'jais
01-17-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Yet I am not protestant or catholic.

Then what are you? Pfah - it doesn't matter anyway, every Christian group has done terrible non-Christian deeds, except the ones created too late and thus missed their chance when the religion was at its highest stage.

I'm just saying that even if people do that for God.. they will go to hell unless they have a major breakdown and their heart is changed forever and they ask for forgiveness.

This is only what you believe. The crusaders believed they were good Christians as well. You're only the best, most holy and devout follower in your own eyes. In hundred years, Christians will look back at you and declare you bad, ugly followers for not trying to stop the racism and poverty in the world, and for slavishly interpreting the Bible literally and insisting on the Genesis being factual description.

You see, with religion, everyone thinks they're right, and as soon as they think it, they know they are. And none can convince them otherwise.

Katarn07
01-17-2003, 03:20 PM
I don't fear death, just pain and suffering. Physical and emotional...

griff38
01-17-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Katarn07
I don't fear death, just pain and suffering. Physical and emotional...


So you fear the actual act of dying more than not existing forever?

I think I am just the opposite, physical pain at the moment of death will most likely be quick. Where as being dead until the end of time could take billions of years. And if you beleive like many that the universe is already about 4 billions years old. Then who is in a hurry to not exist again? Hmm? Not me.
At least when you feel pain you know you are alive.

Mandalorian54
01-17-2003, 06:45 PM
The ultimate price Jesus paid was experiencing hell for eternity in a single instant, and being forsaken by GOD the Father.

but Jesus didn't spend three days in hell!?! where did you hear that, It's not in the Bible. mabee the Jehovah witness Bible. But I don't know anything about that.

Christians are like muslims in that sence, we believe dieing sends you to a better place. and other relions.


Then what are you? Pfah - it doesn't matter anyway, every Christian group has done terrible non-Christian deeds, except the ones created too late and thus missed their chance when the religion was at its highest stage.

well people of religions and christianity who do those deeds are disobaying rules of their religions, so don't exacly count.

you cant say someone is a christian if they once were and arnt anymore because they are doing wrong.

you can't judge other people by the actions of a few.


This is only what you believe. The crusaders believed they were good Christians as well. You're only the best, most holy and devout follower in your own eyes. In hundred years, Christians will look back at you and declare you bad, ugly followers for not trying to stop the racism and poverty in the world, and for slavishly interpreting the Bible literally and insisting on the Genesis being factual description

Well there are many different kinds of christians, and it also works the opposite like in Joan of Archs sake.

some christian groops do that kind of thing like not believing certain things to be factual and stuff like that, but there is always groops that have constantly believed the same things. and the world will be destroyed soon anyway, I don't know how soon though, could be tonight could be in a hundread years.



You see, with religion, everyone thinks they're right, and as soon as they think it, they know they are. And none can convince them otherwise.

thats not true, I know lots of people who were converted from other religions.

In theory, no you shouldn't do it. In practice you'd do it if you were pressed enough, as history clearly shows.

you have to judge evryone individually. In roman days many did not, mabee YOU should check your history book.

ET Warrior
01-17-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
The ultimate price Jesus paid was experiencing hell for eternity in a single instant, and being forsaken by GOD the Father.

but Jesus didn't spend three days in hell!?! where did you hear that, It's not in the Bible. mabee the Jehovah witness Bible. But I don't know anything about that.

The Apostles Creed......

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth
And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten son our Lord, who was concieved by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under pontious Pilot, was crucified dead and buried. on the third day, he rose again from the dead and so on.......

There may be mistakes there........i haven't attended traditional service in a long time so i haven't had to say it.......
(I'm a part of the United Church of Christ...not a Jehovah Witness)

Tyrion
01-18-2003, 02:14 PM
Well, first off, Christ died in an extremely painful way, and then he spent his first three days in Hell, being tormented by Satan, before he rose and went to heaven.

So? why does 3 days even begin to compare being in heaven for eternity? I'd pay that price for what I got in return easily.

And no, we christians don't really believe we die.....we will have immortal life in heaven with God.

I didnt mean that type of die. I meant actually mortally dieing. You know,your mind get's decayed and you turn into a skeleton?

Arreat
01-18-2003, 03:38 PM
Im not afraid of not existing cause of only one point life SUX. Though i still live life to its fullest potential i would like to have a dangerous occupation just so i can escape reality! ( yep, i actually look forward to death)But having a dangerous job also may mean saving lives which then would make up for the fact that i wanna die LOL, which then could prevent me from falling in the fiery depths of hell and eventually or hopefully i may end up in a better place, most likely purgatory.

C'jais
01-21-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
well people of religions and christianity who do those deeds are disobaying rules of their religions, so don't exacly count.

you cant say someone is a christian if they once were and arnt anymore because they are doing wrong.

you can't judge other people by the actions of a few.

A few!?! So, you're saying that no Christians existed in the middle ages?




and the world will be destroyed soon anyway, I don't know how soon though, could be tonight could be in a hundread years.

Eh? Says who? Is that some fantasy you just made up? Sure, and everyone in my neighborhood are in vampires. Give me some evidence and factual predictions of this vague prophecy.

thats not true, I know lots of people who were converted from other religions.

Sure. But does it happen on a daily basis? Is it something that every person does several times during their lives? No. it happens very, very rarely.

you have to judge evryone individually. In roman days many did not, mabee YOU should check your history book.

No. I do not have to judge everyone individually. I need only look at the organizations and their actions.

Look at communism. It's great in theory. Every communist I'm sure is a good person at heart. Is it a great organization?

C'jais
01-21-2003, 07:52 AM
I'm surprised that nearly none have answered the original question:

Are you afraid of not existing?

And no, of course I don't mean you go around scared or wondering about it everyday. I'm simply asking if you are at heart afraid of not being. Not dying, the process, but simply being unconscious, selfless and nothing.

Similar to sleeping and the time before your birth.

Jubatus
10-22-2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
I'm surprised that nearly none have answered the original question:

Are you afraid of not existing?

And no, of course I don't mean you go around scared or wondering about it everyday. I'm simply asking if you are at heart afraid of not being. Not dying, the process, but simply being unconscious, selfless and nothing.

Similar to sleeping and the time before your birth.

I have asked that question of several persons and it has surprised me at every turn how they lacked to see the simple rationality of the question.

Understanding the concept would probably come about better by rephrasing the question to:"Would you regret it if you had never come into existence?" Now, the question is irrational, because of course you wouldn't, because you wouldn't be in existence to regret not existing. That's the rationale of the question; how can you fear not existing? Yet people do (irrationally). I've been given answers like "I don't wanna miss out on things!"....Why care when you're not around - at all!?

Then again, some people misunderstand the concept of non-existence offhand; they put it equal to simply being dead, i.e. being non-coporal but still having a consciousness on some level, presumably spiritually. Yet, after I explain to them thoroughly that by non-existent I mean total lack of consciousness/awareness, they still give me the same answer(s).

Personally, I don't fear non-existence, I yearn for it. I hope dying is the ultimate off-switch.

SkinWalker
10-22-2003, 04:22 AM
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

I'll never cease to exist. I can only cease to be aware of my exisitance.

Homuncul
10-28-2003, 12:02 PM
Are you afraid of not existing?

No, couldn't care less about it. I focus on what's here and now, maybe some years ahead of me, never look back. At least this is what I feel need to do to prosper.

El Sitherino
10-28-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

I'll never cease to exist. I can only cease to be aware of my exisitance. That makes me very happy that I'll never have to worry about anything I face in life. :)

As I said before I welcome death. I don't believe in an after life, but it would be nice. Sorry if when I said that before, that it wasn't very clear. I have a habbit of not making sense the first time I say something (that's why sometimes I repeat things :\ )