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STTCT
01-14-2003, 08:23 AM
Well I think that punishment here in America is not what it should be. If we cained people...cut off arms for stealing etc There wouldn't be these stupid people. Hell, they get caught dead in the act....they spend years in trials, finnaly they get "the death sentence" then they usually just spend the rest of their time apealing or on death row till they die. Meanwhile watching TV and living a life better than Homeless and starving people. If we had a better punishment system...you would see less crime.

This thread was split from Kstar's thread about the extinction of the human race. It got a little out of hand.

STTCT, notify me if you'd like the title changed since you're now the creator of this business ;) - C'jais

Wacky_Baccy
01-14-2003, 08:54 AM
Posted by STTCT
Well I think that punishment here in America is not what it should be. If we cained people...cut off arms for stealing etc There wouldn't be these stupid people.

[...]

If we had a better punishment system...you would see less crime. True, but there are far less brutal ways of achieving the same thing... Although they would take longer, require a lot of patience, and probably more money, so I can see why most of the governments in the world don't want to look at them seriously on a large scale :(

It's like with drug rehabilitation - you could just shoot them if you wanted to, and that would probably have a dramatic effect on the rate of offences... But you could also put more effort into helping people recover from drug abuse, and also helping them with any other problems that may have led to them using drugs in the first place - just like with alcohol abuse, it's often an underlying problem that pushes people to misuse these substances to try to forget about something they can't bear to face or are unable to cope with (not always, I accept, but frequently, from what I've seen).

STTCT
01-14-2003, 09:01 AM
Well druggies are one thing

But rapists, child abusers and people who hurt other people deserve a higher punishment. In one country...i read on cnn...a convicted rapist was shot ( like in the olden days) lined up and shot by all the men of the victims family. I bet that makes people think twice about rape. Here, its like, so common and so put up with. The most people would get is some jail time and jail time isn't cheap either and these people get all the comforts of home (and maybe a little "girlfriend").

I understand the need to rehabilitate people with a disease...such as drug addiction and alcholism - but I'm sorry I do not view rapists and abusers as having a disease. I think they do it because they have no fear of the punishment. Look at that kid who was an american who got caught in another country tagging and they cained his @rse. Do you think he ever tagged again??

C'jais
01-14-2003, 09:32 AM
STTCT: Have you heard about mental diseases?

Rape is not a deathsin in my eye. When we see a murderer, we feel pity for him - it must be so tough to carry the burden of knowing that you have killed another person.

When we see a rapist, we have nothing but loathe, hatred and detest left for him. He's an inhuman monster who desire nothing but to destroy other people's lives.

This distinction is disgusting. No generalization is more horrid. It makes me puke to see that murdering a person is now less of a sin, than raping one.

BTW, what does "tagging" mean?

Wacky_Baccy
01-14-2003, 09:37 AM
Posted by STTCT
Well druggies are one thing

But rapists, child abusers and people who hurt other people deserve a higher punishment.Why?

Many of them are mentally imbalanced or disturbed for myriad reasons, and do not necessarily have total control over what they do... I am in no way condoning rape/child abuse/etc., but it's the same thing again - there are very often underlying causes and reasons that these people do such things - many (if not most) child abusers were themselves abused as children, and it ends up becoming a vicious circle if the victims are not helped to come to terms with what happened to them.

Here, its like, so common and so put up with. The most people would get is some jail time and jail time isn't cheap either and these people get all the comforts of home (and maybe a little "girlfriend").I'm not saying that's a good thing, but what I am saying is that people need to be helped to acknowledge and deal with the reasons that drove them to do the things they did.

I understand the need to rehabilitate people with a disease...such as drug addiction and alcholism - but I'm sorry I do not view rapists and abusers as having a disease.But they do have mental problem which gives rise to them doing such things - i.e. a 'disease'.
I think they do it because they have no fear of the punishment. Look at that kid who was an american who got caught in another country tagging and they cained his @rse. Do you think he ever tagged again?? Just so I reduce the chances of making a complete and utter fool of myself, what exactly do you mean by "tagging"? :)


*edit*

Jais beat me by 5 :(

Oh well :D

STTCT
01-14-2003, 09:41 AM
yes i have heard about "mental disease". But can you rehabilitate a killer or a rapist? Can they actually enter society after doing that. Sure rapist register as sex offenders...and there are millions of them out there living among us freely. The guy I talked about that killed the 5 year old girl in one of my above posts - was actually taken to court before all this for the same type of crime on his step daughters. Sexual Abuse. He got off. Then years later he kills a little girl and mutilates her body!! Murderer and a Rapists. I detest both types of people. Cold blooded killers and rapists. When I see a rapist - I am filled with disgust - this man took a life too. He stole someones emotional well- being etc. In my opinion both are sick sick people. They deserve to be punished more than this country punishes them. Just like I said Murderers who do get put on Death Row - hardly ever actually do fullfill their fate or punishment. Needle or electric chair etc.
A needle death would not scare me - we don't even give that painless death to people who are dying in the hospitals - why should we give it to them. Take them out and shoot them.



edit: Tagging is slang for Graphiti (sp) you know what the Gang Members do to walls with spray paint :cool:

C'jais
01-14-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by STTCT

A needle death would not scare me - we don't even give that painless death to people who are dying in the hospitals - why should we give it to them. Take them out and shoot them.

Whoa, hold on. I'm assuming you go by the ancient Biblical wisdom - "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"?
This is a part in the Bible I could do without. Vengeance is good, yesss....

No. Vengeance is shallow and leads to nowhere, save making the previous victim feel good about himself. I thought the Bible preached that we should love one another, turn the other cheek and be kind to even our enemies? Where has this wisdom gone?

edit: Tagging is slang for Graphiti (sp) you know what the Gang Members do to walls with spray paint :cool:

Oh, I know what that is. I thought you were using it as slang for something else :D :p

BTW, what did you mean with "caining" something? Do you mean chaining, as in, put him to jail?

Wacky: :lol: :D
Get ya arse off invisible mode so I can see you! :p

STTCT
01-14-2003, 10:00 AM
LOL I can't spell!!! I'm 23 and I have horrible spelling!!

Cane-ing. Like with a poll...they beat you!

Yes - I do go for the wisdom eye for an eye. But if that were what I was trying to impress upon - then I'd be saying rape the rapist.

I just mean (and I'm tired :o right now so if I don't make much sence I'm sorry)

Is that with a more stricter punishment system we would have a lower crime rate. I'm not one to decide who gets what crime or punishment. But sending someone for some jail time, or merely just letting them off with a slap on the hand is not solving anything. Maybe it works for some, but look at DUI's.

Driving Under the Influence. I know people who have 5 DUI's and they ride there bikes to work. Seriously , we get some interesting people here...but anyways. The punishment for DUI's isn't strict enough. I'm not saying CANE THEM or SHOOT THEM. But merely saying do some city work or what have you is not stopping these people. And they are going to kill someone!

Wacky_Baccy
01-14-2003, 10:05 AM
Edit

@STTCT - I understood what you meant, don't feel bad :)

@Jais - same to you! :p :D

And turn off invisible at EchoBase, too! :D
Posted by STTCT
yes i have heard about "mental disease". But can you rehabilitate a killer or a rapist?I think that depends on when you attempt to... In the case of such extremes as serial murder and rape, I think that you'd probably need to start helping the person before they commited the crime, which is, I accept, extremely difficult in many cases :(

The guy I talked about that killed the 5 year old girl in one of my above posts - was actually taken to court before all this for the same type of crime on his step daughters. Sexual Abuse. He got off.Then the system failed. If he'd been given help then, it's quite possible, if not likely, that he wouldn't have done anything like it again...

In my opinion both are sick sick people.Yes, thay are sick - mentally sick.
They deserve to be punished more than this country punishes them.In my eyes, that would make us just as bad as them - we need to help them, not torture them with punishments for something they didn't have total control over.
Just like I said Murderers who do get put on Death Row - hardly ever actually do fullfill their fate or punishment. Needle or electric chair etc.
A needle death would not scare me - we don't even give that painless death to people who are dying in the hospitals - why should we give it to them. Take them out and shoot them.What a waste of a person.
edit: Tagging is slang for Graphiti (sp) you know what the Gang Members do to walls with spray paint :cool: Ah, I thought that was probably what you meant - thanks for clarifying :)

My opinion on 'tagging' is that it's a fantastic yet misdirected outlet of creativity - some of the stuff I've seen is amazing - I'd be proud to have that on my wall.

The people that do it need to be given the chance to put their creativity to better use - this could involve some sort of scheme at the school level, getting them going in the right direction before they get sucked into gangs and illegal activities... Damn that sounds pompous of me :indif: ...Oh well :D

It's the same with mindless vandalism - people get bored - give them something to do that interests them, and you'll dramatically reduce the chances of them doing something 'anti-social'...


(Edits at top of post ^_^)

Wacky_Baccy
01-14-2003, 10:12 AM
Posted by STTCT
Is that with a more stricter punishment system we would have a lower crime rate. I'm not one to decide who gets what crime or punishment. But sending someone for some jail time, or merely just letting them off with a slap on the hand is not solving anything.Agreed - which is why we need to help these people, and put more effort as a society into stopping the things that make them do this in the first place :)
Maybe it works for some, but look at DUI's.

Driving Under the Influence. I know people who have 5 DUI's and they ride there bikes to work. Seriously, we get some interesting people here...but anyways. The punishment for DUI's isn't strict enough. I'm not saying CANE THEM or SHOOT THEM. But merely saying do some city work or what have you is not stopping these people. And they are going to kill someone! They don't get their driving licenses revoked if they repeatedly drive under the infulence??! :eek:

Remind me to be careful when crossing the street in America, then... :eyeraise:

STTCT
01-14-2003, 01:39 PM
they do (gets interupted by silly pop up) err

get there liscences revoked after a few offences..maybe 2? I'm not sure...but they can get it back. They even have devices that they give repeat offenders that make it so they have to blow in a breathlizer (sp) test before there car starts.

Wacky_Baccy
01-14-2003, 01:59 PM
Posted by STTCT
they do (gets interupted by silly pop up) err

get there liscences revoked after a few offences..maybe 2? I'm not sure...but they can get it back.Eek :eyeraise:
They even have devices that they give repeat offenders that make it so they have to blow in a breathlizer (sp) test before there car starts. Good grief. What a phenominal waste of money :(

I wonder what kind or person comes up with ideas like that without considering how the funding could be better put to use... Of course, that assumes that the funding hasn't been locked into one project... God, I hate bureaucracy :(

GonkH8er
01-15-2003, 08:10 AM
I have a bone to pick with the justice system. Remind me post post it later if I don't. No time now... just modding.

griff38
01-15-2003, 05:28 PM
This is a good one, I have waxed & waned on this for years.
I used to think stronger punishment was the answer. But I have been doing alot of reading lately and there is no historical evidence that STRONG punishments deter crime.

I think like most reasonable people I believe in justice,
and many times the only way we can see justice is through punishment. In our attempt to create giant systems of justice we end up with bureaucracy, eventually guilty go free innocent get punished. People like me get confused. I think that's what made me want stronger punishment for awhile, it's a short term answer.

There must be some alternative.