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Deft Aklin
01-15-2003, 09:34 AM
Let me know what you think of the wild Jedi, the greyness of the galaxy. IMHO, they just don't fit. They are definetely not canon and I just don't think they belong. Simply put, when it comes to the force, you are either light or dark.....deal!

Devil Doll
01-15-2003, 12:27 PM
as I said in the other forums, this is only accepted at SWCez, and for me it´s very valid because of Luke, remember that he was a Jedi and then he became a sith and later he returned to Lightside, I don´t think the finished being a complelty lightsider, he felt the Dark Force and now he IS grey.

as Grey Jedi Master, I train both sith and Jedi people, it´s like if i did the same Luke did, I turn darkside and train a sith, and then i return tu light side and train a jedi.

For me it´s very valid :D

Deft Aklin
01-15-2003, 12:51 PM
Just because you turn to the Dark Side, does not mean you are Grey. You either stay Dark or Light, you can not be both at the same time. I guess in essence you could say, that you can have a Light sider being tempted by the Dark, but never will he be both at the same time. His actions may be swayed in either direction at any given time, but that is the pull of the two sides on him. The Dark Side tempts the Light, a constant truth, but that does not make all Light Jedi Grey does it? Anyway, I still stand by my original post.

Wraith 8
01-15-2003, 12:55 PM
well.. i played a grey sort of jedi :D

i destroyed a sith lord as an act of revenge for my mom and dad....
but i stayed on the light side.

in also went bounty hunting for the money.
so.. thats not a Jedi thing

so personally ... i think there is a grey side.

Zendjir
01-15-2003, 02:41 PM
Where did you do that Wraith? Or is it a sneek thing ;)

Deft Aklin
01-15-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Wraith 8
well.. i played a grey sort of jedi :D

i destroyed a sith lord as an act of revenge for my mom and dad....
but i stayed on the light side.

in also went bounty hunting for the money.
so.. thats not a Jedi thing

so personally ... i think there is a grey side.

See, now in my opinion, this would just be considered a Light side Jedi that faltered. What I might consider a Grey Jedi, would be a Jedi that cares not which side he is on, Light or Dark. Even in this, he would be on one side or the other at any given time. I seem to remember GL saying something about this, and I believe it was something along the lines of, "I didn't create the Star Wars universe with any grey in it. Everything is very definitive. Luke is Light, Vader is Dark." Mind you of course, this is a long time ago, and probably a very inaccurate memory at that. I do remember that GL didn't feel they belonged. I will have to do some digging though to verify this.

Editted and added text:
Okay, after much research, this is the best I could do. First, here is a quote from The Jedi Council forum, I will also provide the link.

-Grey Jedi-
A full-fledged Jedi IMO shouldn't be grey (in between). According to Chi, which IMO the Force is similar in most respects to, using one side has dire consequences on the other (a healer would significantly diminish his/her ability to damage & vice versa). An apprentice might be able to get away with it, but a full-fledged Jedi's influence on the Force itself is too strong. Even though they balance each other, the opposite sides don't work in cohesion, (which they would have to in order for a Grey Jedi to exist properly) rather they are in a sort of Tug of War with each other. For an Apprentice, the tugs in either direction would be small, propotional to the apprentices own grasp in the Force. But on a Jedi Knight they'd rip him/her apart. The balance ("neutral ground") between Dark & Light BTW is not to implement the Force at all.
http://www1.theforce.net/forum/Archives/Archive-000006/HTML/19991016-3-000387-2.html

Also, words from GL's mouth, with a link, though this can be interpretted in many ways:

CUT: In Episode 1 Qui-Gon Jinn said Anakin would bring balance to The Force. What does that mean?

GL: Let me explain briefly. If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is grey. In each of us we have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this.
http://sithwitch.com/lucas_in_cut.html

Now, that we have seen these, in my opinion, very good points, let's see where we take this.

Wraith 8
01-15-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Zendjir
Where did you do that Wraith? Or is it a sneek thing ;) well.. i did some time on the Aresen forum for RPG-ing :p..... so there i did :p

swediot=)
01-15-2003, 04:56 PM
2 words

KYLE KATARN

he is a grey jedi .... if you have played jk2 you know it he is lightside and dark side because he posses both abilities and in that game he doesnt choose 1 path he takes it half and half so yes grey jedis do exist

Devil Doll
01-15-2003, 05:23 PM
I never thought the Grey Jedi thing exisit in another thing, i only knew that was from the SWCez.

anyway, I like that :p and the SCW council accepted me as a grey jedi so I don´t have problems with that :p

Devil Doll
01-22-2003, 12:29 AM
well, i know this thread was a little bit dead, but In the other forum I asked to my padder to investigate about grey jedis and that´s what he found:

The Grey Jedi

The conception of the Grey Jedi began when George Lucas once claimed that Qui-Gon Jinn was in fact a Grey Jedi, which was enough proof for fans that they do indeed exist in the Star Wars universe. Little else about them exists as actual canon, but a great deal of conjecture can be found on the internet, most of which points to a common vision of what it actually means to be a Grey Jedi.


“I shall do what I must” – the Grey Jedi belief system

For the Grey Jedi, the Force is everything. Instead of contemplating the ‘Light” and ‘Dark’ sides of the force, they perceive everything, including the Republic and the Jedi Council itself, as being secondary to serving the Force itself, no matter what the consequences may be. Those following the Light as thought of as being too involved with compassion, while the Dark Jedi are too focused on hatred or personal gain. Both are too political to realize the simple truth – a Jedi must follow the will of the Force itself. And the Force itself does not take sides. The Force doesn’t care about Light and Dark, greed and compassion. It does not attribute good or bad to anything; it is simply the Force, and there is grave danger in attributing any anthropomorphic quality to it. If the Force ‘cares’ about anything at all, it cares about balance.

A Jedi in the Republic serves the Council, and the Jedi Order at large, following a very strict set of rules known as the Jedi Code. A Sith, on the other hand, serves herself, or her Master. She generally has no thoughts of serving the larger whole, nor does she think about putting anything before herself. Even her service to her Master is selfish, and is done out of the desire to increase her own knowledge and power, generally at the expense of anyone who happens to get in the way.

A Grey Jedi, however, serves the Force. Like the Force itself, the Grey Jedi is interested only in balance. When it comes down to either doing the bidding of the Force, or doing the bidding of the Jedi Council, there is no question – “I shall do what I must” to serve the Force; even if it means going against the wishes of the council, even if it means using the Dark Side, even if it means going to extremes that would otherwise be considered inappropriate for a Jedi.

If the Light and the Dark are two opposite leanings pulling on a rope, then the grey way is to be the rope itself. It accepts both the Light and the Darkness without belonging to either of them. Now, this is not the same thing as turning one’s back on the teaching, as with the Sith, nor is it a blind interpretation of those teachings, as it is with the Jedi. The Grey find themselves instead questioning the right of other beings to dictate the will of the Force for them.

History of the Grey - taken from "Missive from Jedi Eris to the Community of the Grey"

"Originally the Jedi were a mystical, philosophical order which studied the Force, in seclusion, through experimentation. They accumulated knowledge of the Force and passed it on from one generation to the next. Gradually over the millennia they grew. Finally the Jedi came out of seclusion, and took an active role in society as the 'guardians of peace and justice.' They continued to study the Force, but also served the greater interests of the Galactic Republic, which was slowly growing in size as more and more worlds became capable of interstellar travel.

"At some point, we're not sure when, a fatal schism occurred among the Jedi. We're not speaking here of the exiles who later became Sith, nor even those individuals or small groups who broke away to pursue their own agendas. These were but a foreshadowing.
"The schism I refer to now was different. Instead of leaving the Jedi Order, more and more knights began spending more and more time away from the Temple, to study all aspects of the Force, light and dark. Over the decades the individuals became a small closely-knit group. This group was, of course, completely hidden from the Jedi Order.
"You see, at a certain point in its history the Jedi Order decided to forbid experimentation with and study of the dark side. There were good reasons for this- the entire Order was at risk. How long would the Jedi remain servants of the Republic, or even of the Force, if they began to yield to the temptations of anger, arrogance, greed, and selfishness? History has shown time and again that these qualities are never tolerated by society for long.
"Sound reasoning. Except, of course, for the natural sentient desire for that which is forbidden.

"The early group took the risks of temptation, and often paid for it. Many people were terribly changed by the experiments they conducted. Some died, others went mad. It took a long time for knowledge to accumulate in a fashion that could help future generations. But eventually this did occur. This was the beginning of the Order of the Grey. There are more detailed histories, but for our purposes this brief synopsis will have to do.
"At an early point (so early we don't have accurate data) this loose confederation created a defined structure- an organization of support, commanding loyalty among its members, complete with initiation rites. This organization was no longer a vague gathering of fellow Jedi. They recognized that they were a category apart -though they continued to work at the Temple, they had their own secret network of awareness among their own kind, and their own goals, which sometimes contradicted the goals of the Temple, the most heretical being that it is necessary to serve the Force before serving the interests of the Republic, or even of the Temple.

"Now early on, an observation was made. Some Jedi have always, and always shall, wonder about and experiment with the dark side of the Force. And, many of these Jedi fall to the dark side from lack of knowledge and support. The secondary goal of the Order was taken on, as a responsibility to help prevent our fellow Jedi from falling to the dark side, even as we embrace and study it. There is safety in our numbers as well as our knowledge. The goal is to serve the Force in a complete and whole way, as the original Jedi Order pledged to do, but this takes the support of our fellow Grey.”


(I wish someone read all the info) :p

Jan Gaarni
01-22-2003, 02:47 AM
(I wish someone read all the info) :p
I will, when I get home again. :p

But right now I really should get out of my chair, turn off the comp, and get to work. :D

Deft Aklin
01-22-2003, 09:41 AM
Ow.......head....hurts....too.....much.....info.
Not exactly how i wanted to start my day off at work, but hey.


Anyway, what/where was this taken from. I have taken the time to read it in it's entirity, I still disagree though. The Force according to Lucas has no grey, the balance is kept by the force itself and not by it's followers. Light and Dark do not compete, they co-exist. It is the Jedi using the power that are tainted by it's singularity. You cannot be tainted by the Dark and maintain an existence of non-duality. I love referencing Buddhism. ;)

Even if you were to utilize both sides of the force, then you would be flip flopping between sides and not 'the rope' as your quote says. Please, when giving reference, give links so I can see everything in it's entirety. If GL really said that Qui-Gon was Grey, then where? Please, I encourage you to entice me with more information. I will see what I can find, but if you can give me links that would be so much more helpful.

Devil Doll
01-22-2003, 05:08 PM
Well, as I said, my padder made the investigation, I just selected all the info and paste that here, I´ll ask him if he can give me the links or were he found that investigation, I asked for a lot of info about SWG and Grey jedis, so I think it will take some time to found the info again :(