View Full Version : Current Status

01-19-2003, 02:54 PM
As MotF's Coder and Team Lead, I'm responsible for implimenting all our features. I'll try to post here to let everyone now what I'm currently working on. Also watch the rest of this forum for more up-to-the-minute information on MotF.

01-19-2003, 03:04 PM
I'm currently finishing up the rewrite of the splash damage code. It's now much more realistic with ghoul2 hitdetection and fragmentation / concussion damage simulation. However, I've been have a lot of trouble getting it to work. My projectile math was a bit off. I think I have it now, but I haven't tired it.

01-21-2003, 09:36 AM
Ok, the core splash damage code is done after DAYS of working on the damn thing. ASk proved the key to getting it done. We're currently working on getting the weapons set up for the new system.

01-21-2003, 10:56 AM
/me comes to razorace
/me points "Hey do this"
<Razor_Ace> wtf? it worked


I still say that Razor_Ace is responsible for it being done.
Still, You are Welcome :P

01-22-2003, 04:20 AM
Razor Ace:

With the explosive hit detection core complete, I have turned over the job of filling in the explosive weapon data over to ASk. I'm now turning my attention to the dismemberment code. It needs to be updated with ghoul 2 hitzones, plus we're considering some additional uses for the system.

For example, with the more realistic explosive damage modeling, we're thinking about reimplimenting "gibbing" to reflect the fact that you're not going to survive a direct hit by a fragmentation rocket with a intact body (dead).

What we do will be restricted by what the system can do, so details will be reveiled as we progress.

01-22-2003, 04:25 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention the big news of the day. Wudan has figured out a way to merge .gla files together! With this knowledge we can now do new animations for MotF!

Unfortunately, Ytmh doesn't have a copy of 3D studio Max, so new animations in MotF will have to wait until Ytmh has a copy. If anyone knows where we can get a copy cheap, please pm me. :)

01-30-2003, 02:56 AM
By new animations for motf, does that mean new animations for jk2 in general, as well? :D

01-30-2003, 03:23 AM
For anyone with a team that can do a LOT of GOOD animating and coding, yes.

I'm not directly related with the gla merger team so I obviously don't get credit for it. They're close, but there's still some additional hurdles that they have run into. So cross your fingers and hope that ASk, Wudan, etc get it working soon.

I, in the meanwhile, am playing with the saber code. I just finished rewriting the saber hit detection to make it work a bit better and to get ride of a bunch of useless crap. From my testing, it seems to me that the reason why the saber seems to miss a lot in running fights is because the current camera view makes the saber look like it reaches farther than it actually does. I'll look into what I can do about the camera view to fix the problem.

01-31-2003, 07:48 AM
Well, I spent today working on making a good 1st person view for the saber.

I got it currently set up so the player's view is hooked directly to eyes of the player model. This means you get to see everything the character would see including your feet, arms, all the animations where the saber passes thru your leg, etc.

It's working pretty good so far but I need to write a function to make it so you'll have some freedom of movement with your virtual eyeballs. And before you all write in and ask, your eye wouldn't move to look where you're looking. That would require a lot of coding and most models wouldn't support it anyway. I might do it later when I have a better understanding of the Ghoul2 commands.

A special skin will be required for this feature to work with other models. I'll probably set it up to use the kyle's model (for the 1st person view) if a custom skin isn't set up for the current model. Also, due to the way the fx effects are handled in the game, you'll not be able to see yourself in mirrors while in the new first person view.

01-31-2003, 11:35 AM
I hope this works better than the normal 1st person view, I hate seeing like I was looking through a camera... and it wouldn't work very well for saber combat, with all those jedi jumps & speed.

01-31-2003, 05:33 PM
oh it's better than the SP version. It's actually attached to the model now.

However, the big downside that I can see is that in real life, and in the game, you can't really see the saber/your hands when you're in the 1st POV.

01-31-2003, 09:16 PM
The big difference here is that in real life you don't need to see your saber to know where it is, since it's your hands that are holding it, and you don't need to see them to know where they are, plus you hve a wider FOV, in the PC (or a console for that matter) you have a square FOV, and you cant feel your "hands" so things need to be a little less realistic I think.

01-31-2003, 09:20 PM
Very true, but how do you suggest getting that sort of information to the player?

02-01-2003, 03:24 AM
Razor Ace: Still working on a smoother function for the 1st pvv. I've got the eye movement limiter in place. I'm now working on a way to translate the roll rotation of the model to the view angle. I'm pretty sure I can do it with some math (crappy math :P :D) but it's bedtime for me now. I'll work on it more tomorrow.

02-01-2003, 05:43 AM
Well I only have one idea... and it's pretty lame if you ask me, but there it goes:

If you have played some space sims, you'll have seen some of them have a representation of your ship on the hub, which (at least on some) moves like you do (ok i have only seen this once :P), so putting some sort of simplified model there could soulve this, but i think it would look reeeeeeally crappy.

02-01-2003, 01:30 PM
We've been thinking about that sort of thing, but it would take a lot of coding for a single camera view.

02-03-2003, 04:48 AM
Well, I finally figured out a way to extract the orientation information and have it work correctly. It looks great now. Tomorrow, I'll resume work on the smoother function so you'll have some ability to "move" your eyes around a bit. Boy, I was probably stuck on that issue for the longest of anything I've done for the project so far.

02-03-2003, 10:06 AM
Can we see some screenies of it? (Or realease 2 :rolleyes: )

Woops, now they are rolling :P (I'm just impatient I understand it's not easy... seeing the probelms I have with crappy nwn scripts)

02-03-2003, 05:34 PM
Why are you rolling your eyes at me? These things take time. We're in the middle of intergrating several major code changes and we need to get them RIGHT first. :)

I'll try to post some screenies soon.

02-04-2003, 04:39 AM
Still toying with the camera stuff. It's not very playable with full attachment (to the eyes) thou. The view moves so quickly in the flips and spins that it's hard on the eyes. Plus, the left/right leaning for straffing is simple insane. I'll keep playing with it but the system is probably going to have an attachment setting to let people use it without the whirl-and-puke that full attachment brings.

Anyway, here are some screenshots of the current system.....

Woah, I have a leg AND a foot! (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot1.jpg)

I like to call this piece, "Sparks, Two Legs, and the Sky". (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot2.jpg)

Coming out of a roll in this shot. (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot3.jpg)

Kyle takes a shot nap. (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot4.jpg)

Look ma! No..err..anything. (This is the view in the middle of a backflip.) (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot5.jpg)

Lando getting a charge out of live...for the last 5 seconds of it. (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot6.jpg)

Lando does the electric boogy. (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotF_R2_B5_shot7.jpg)

Ok, that's enough bad jokes for now. Sides, I'm out of screenies.


02-04-2003, 07:39 AM
Just a question, does this use the "improved" kyle model from 1st person lightsaber or is it the one from the skin? Since if it's the one from the skin i guess it should be possible to make it use the same model you are using.

02-04-2003, 04:54 PM
The "improved" model is SP is just another skin. Open up the skins for Kyle marked with "fpls" and "fpls2". You'll see what I mean.

02-05-2003, 01:01 AM
wow, that looks really cool

when you do back attacks, does the view look around? i assume so, since you said the camera view is attached to the eyes

will the camera be in the next release? this mod actually allows me to tolerate this game in multiplayer :p :thumbsup:

02-05-2003, 01:07 AM
Yeah, the camera should look back when you backstab.

Thxs for the high appraise.

Yes, the camera will be in Release 2.

02-05-2003, 06:44 AM
So you are using the one which hasn't got half of the skin marked as clear? Is there any way to make it use your normal model if you aren't using kyle's (It will be uglier i suppose but id preffer that rather than seeing kyle)

02-05-2003, 02:48 PM
The head has to be set to "clear" to prevent you from seeing the insides of it. It's not hard to do for any model.

02-05-2003, 03:23 PM
So for this to work for any skin you'd need to a headless version? Just tell the name of the skin file and I'll add it to my skin :P

BTW these screenshots look really good, I can't wait to see this working in game.

02-05-2003, 08:52 PM
Yes, you'll have to make an additional skin with the name "skinname_fpls" (no head with body) or "skinname_fpls2" (arms and saber only) for every skin you want to use in True View.

I'm not sure yet but I may only make support for _fpls because there's no real point for removing the body when that's part of the appeal of doing True View. AND it would just add to the workload for skinners/modellers.

02-05-2003, 09:24 PM
Since the animation thread hasn't been updated in the general editing forum, I was wondering if you guys at MOTF are going to use custom animations? I remember Tercero talking about some mod he made that made the lightsaber combat truthful to the movies. I'd appreciate a response, i've been very curious lately. Thank you ;)

02-05-2003, 10:48 PM
When new animations are possible, MotF will be adding some to the mod. HOWEVER, the people working on getting new animations to work have hit a wall. Until the technical hurdles are passed, don't expect new animations anytime soon.

I don't know who Tercero is. Who is he and where did he mention this? If he's truely interested in making the game more like the movies, I'm sure MotF could work out some sort of merger deal. ( Assuming that he's the real deal. I'm sick of people who sign up and disappear the next day. :P )

02-08-2003, 03:31 AM
Not much today. Just farther implimenting True View.

02-08-2003, 12:30 PM
hi i had a few more thoughts about this project

there was a mention about having dodging, with non-jedi characters and such, and how all "classes" as it were, would dodge, because there would be balance issues otherwise

anyway, i was thinking, maybe have it so jedi classes would use less dodge points (or non-jedis use more) whenever dodge is used, but have it so jedis do not use armor/shields, only non-jedis have shields/armor

another thing i noticed, this should be an easy fix, and although it wont really make it "more true to the movies," is how when you backpedal you run as fast as a forward run. i remember being annoyed by this in the multiplayer game, chasing after some bot looking back at you going backwards just as fast as you chasing them.

like i said, although this isnt an issue as far as the movies go, i think it is unrealistic, and would be better off changed to reflect it. maybe, when fatigue points are enabled, make backpedalling take alot more points than forward running. cuz really, can you run backwards fast without alot of effort?

also, i was wondering, although this mod makes the technical things about the game much better; the guns actually shoot like blasters, not slow ass gob cannons; the dodging is really cool. but it is still boring to just play FFA, duel, and the MP basic games over and over (especially with bots, cuz online servers arent there or hard to find)

i havent really been in the loop lately, and never with the MP side of JO, but i did hear about a gametype called saga, and i guess its a more objective-based gametype, and its already in game, but not enabled (last i checked)... perhaps, if you arent making your own new gametype, you can have the saga gametype enabled in MotF?

last comment, im admittedly ignorant on.
just a few suggestion-guestions.


02-08-2003, 01:07 PM
In my opinion, another good idea maybe to make lightsabres 'circuit out' underwater, or when the blade comes in contact with water.
This (http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres4a.htm) page is useful in background information.

I think fighting with lightsabres underwater is too unrealistic. This may also be the case for blaster shots; they could burn-up after a meter or so in water, meaning they're unable to get the upper hand over Jedi wielding sabres.

I have a feeling most people won't like this idea. I haven't read about any breakthroughs in Lightsabre technology allowing them to duel with lightsabres underwater.

A good example of this is in Aliens Versus Predator 2. The Predator's cloaking device would circuit out in water, making the game more realistic and tactical. :)

The other alternative is allowed more ability to fight underwater. Maybe even some code can be added, to allow specific models to not drown. Mon Calamari can hold their breath underwater longer than any human. This will probably be abused by everyone putting their models in as immune to death underwater, making it a bad idea in the long term.

Hope my aquatic ideas help. ;)

02-08-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
anyway, i was thinking, maybe have it so jedi classes would use less dodge points (or non-jedis use more) whenever dodge is used, but have it so jedis do not use armor/shields, only non-jedis have shields/armorWell, I don't really like class based systems. They're too confining to the customization factor of your player.

Anyway, I'm currently thinking of ideas on how to redo the current Dodge implimentation. I'm hoping to make it be based directly on the distance you have to move to dodge the attack instead of how much damage that attack does. This would more realistic and would give an insentive to actually manually move to dodge attacks instead of just charging. This would go hand-in-hand with the new concept for how dodge is visually handled, but I'll skip the technical details for now. :)

As for how how Dodge is balanced out for the different general types of players, I think the best strategy is to give more Dodge points to Jedi and give armor/health bonuses to the non-jedi. My concern with changing the Dodge cost based on who you is that would be confusing to the players. If the Dodge cost changes dramatically you can't be sure how long your Dodge will last for a given player.like i said, although this isnt an issue as far as the movies go, i think it is unrealistic, and would be better off changed to reflect it. maybe, when fatigue points are enabled, make backpedalling take alot more points than forward running. cuz really, can you run backwards fast without alot of effort?Seems reasonable. I haven't put any time into changing the movement code much, but I'll keep that in mind when I do. :)i havent really been in the loop lately, and never with the MP side of JO, but i did hear about a gametype called saga, and i guess its a more objective-based gametype, and its already in game, but not enabled (last i checked)... perhaps, if you arent making your own new gametype, you can have the saga gametype enabled in MotF?That's a good point. I had been planning to do some Saga Coding with Artifex but...

1. Artifex is bailing out of the "scene" for medical reasons.
2. Community support for Saga has been little to nil. Everyone talks about it like it's going to "save" the JK2 community but then noone makes Saga maps or plays the few that have been made.
3. Team based objective gameplay modes have been done to death in other games. While it is cool and all, we'd have to come up with something truely special to make it something other than just TFC/CS with lightsabers. The problem is that there's not much more you can do THAN make TFC/CS-with-lightsabers without coming up with something that I haven't thought of yet.
4. Coding Time is Coding Time. I could either spend my time improving the basic gameplay or spend it making a good Saga type of gameplay mode.
5. Everyone else and their dog is already doing this for JK2. I know the mod team AKA the AotC TC team is doing this sort of thing for our mod and there's at least 2 other teams working on the same thing. I don't think MotF could do it uniquely enough to justify being a seperate mod.
6. And most importantly, I don't think it related to the mission of MotF. Most of the notable combat in the movies is about individuals in combat not large teams of people duking it out. I think people would far prefer a more realistic rendition of the Vader vs. Luke battles than the Death Star blaster shoot outs (especially if 70% of the players have to be Stormtroopers that are basically banthfodder for the 3 main players)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. :)

02-08-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Hkx Nx
In my opinion, another good idea maybe to make lightsabres 'circuit out' underwater, or when the blade comes in contact with water. That's a good idea, but I haven't even seen a map with swimmable water yet. I think the code already makes your saber turn off in the water as is.

02-10-2003, 02:45 AM
Not the best of days for MotF. For some reason Ytmh's computer crashes on the lastest compile. I'm going to have to go back to the latest back up R2 B5 and work out what is wrong. So until I fix the problem, progress on MotF will be restricted by the amount of time I can spend with Ytmh to figure the problem. SUCK!

02-10-2003, 06:25 AM
That's a good idea, but I haven't even seen a map with swimmable water yet. I think the code already makes your saber turn off in the water as is.

Well I've seen at least one, which was a conversion from a jk1 map, and you can have your saber on underwater without a problem (apart from loosing some moves).

02-10-2003, 01:26 PM
All the maps with water allow underwater sabre fights in JK2.
I haven't come across any 'saber-off' triggers from contact with water.
Here's some links to maps you can see for yourself:

County Roads (http://www.pcgamemods.com/file.php?id=7eacb532570ff6858afd2723755ff790)
Country Roads 2 (http://www.pcgamemods.com/file.php?id=05f971b5ec196b8c65b75d2ef8267331)
Canyon Oasis 2 (http://www.pcgamemods.com/file.php?id=4e732ced3463d06de0ca9a15b6153677)
Dantooine: Free For All (http://www.pcgamemods.com/file.php?id=cb70ab375662576bd1ac5aaf16b3fca4)

..and many more.. ;)

02-10-2003, 04:13 PM
Oh, well, I'll look into it eventually. Obviously, until we have some way to get a new saber, I can't have the saber "short out". The easier solution would be to make the saber turn off underwater.

02-17-2003, 07:51 AM
You could have the sabre turn off and have some spark effect originally in the game?

How's the mod progressing at the moment? No news for a while. ;)

02-17-2003, 06:14 PM
uh. I don't want to give the wrong impression there, but specific visuals are secondary to the gameplay. Unless I have to change the visual code as part of the gameplay changes, I'll save those changes for later.

As for mod progress, it's still coming along. We fixed the major crash bug with Ytmh's computer. We're not sure what the problem was but it's seems to work now. I'm in the middle of tweaking the system and fixing some camera flicker bugs.

02-22-2003, 02:33 AM
Sorry about the lack of updates. I've been messing with stuff in RL and haven't had the time to work on the code AND make regular PR updates.

Things are coming along. It's bug hunting season at the moment. There's a couple of minor things that need to be added but it's basically ready in concept. However, a bunch of the features aren't working correctly yet and it will take sometime to fix.

I'll keep you all posted.

Razor Ace

02-23-2003, 04:00 AM
Ok everyone, since True View (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91557) is almost ready, I'm releasing this information so modellers can insure compatibility with True View.

Basically, you need two things for True View to work:

1. Your model MUST have a tag surface called "*head_eye" whereever you want the player to see from on this model. The camera is directly linked to this tag so it must be on the model or True View doesn't work right.

2. Your model needs to have its head region correctly setup for the dismemberment system. (IE your head pops off correctly when your head is cut off in game.) True View uses a similar system to make your head invisible to prevent you from seeing the insides of your head. This isn't needed presay. You could place the "*head_eye" far enough ahead of your head to prevent any clipping problems but I don't recommend doing this unless you HAVE to (like for the helmet pop off effect of the lastest version of Vader).

That's it. Technically, any correctly done model SHOULD already have these.

I've notice that "glm_vader" doesn't have a "*head_eyes" tag and therefore doesn't work correctly with True View.

Razor Ace

02-26-2003, 04:32 AM
Ok, True View is 95% done. We're in smooth sailing now.

My current sub-project is making the weaponfire/crosshairs use the actual gun barrel instead of the hackish preset location of the basejk2.

It works now, but the crosshair and the actual shots don't line up as good as they do with the "hacked" version. The weapon fire LOOKS better, but the crosshair seems to be a little off in the sniper scope and when you fire at a steep up or down angle.
I think it's related to the other major issue I'm having with True View.

What do you guys think? More realistic weapon firing or put up with the crappy old system (with the better crosshair)?

03-08-2003, 06:34 AM
Well i can't really comment on this because I'm mainlya saberist... but I think having a precise crosshair is more important than the shooting looking good.

I don't know if I (or anybody for that matter) has asked for it before but, could we get electrobinoculars? (but get rid of the damn battery, how comes a lightsaber can stay on for so long and binoculars don't?)
I know it's not a big deal for gameplay, but binoculars would be good (at least for rp, or to look far withowt using the disruptor).

03-08-2003, 03:17 PM
maybe, the thing is, the electrobinoculars would be basically useless. The maps are so small that viewing at a distance is rare. If something will be rarely used, why spend a lot of modding time on it?

03-14-2003, 06:39 AM
Still hammering away at things.

Weapons are now truely hittable (but there's no ingame effect yet). Unfortunately, there's a general issue with the traces that is currently preventing the weapons from being hitable in situations where the original "normal" trace doesn't hit the player model. I think I can get around this by removing the normal traces entirely but that might screw up hit detection on nonghoul2 objects. I'll check it out. :)

True View is basically complete. I want to add some special camera view for blue backstabs and the yellow special but other than that everything is ready.

Heck, I could release this thing today but I want to get it extra polished for release. The minor things often add up. For example, while the aiming is now perfect, the first shot seems to go slightly wild with the distruptor. wierd. That's not what a sniper wants. :)

In other news, we recently talked with RenegadeOfPhunk (currently of MovieBattles, formerly of Team Assualt) about a possible merger. He's currently thinking about it and I'm hopeing/thinking we join forces.

03-16-2003, 04:39 AM
Sure, but that would still take time. I'll add it....eventually. :)

Anyway, Release 2 is out!

Grab it at your local JK2 file site or d/l it from my small webspace here.....http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotFR2.zip

03-16-2003, 04:44 PM
True view works great, but I find it impossible to fight with the saber using it, not being able to turn your head and the really small fov aren't really good for saberfights, add my inability to calculate the saber's reach in fpv and you get a dead saberist :P

03-16-2003, 06:19 PM
yeah, depth perception with the saber is a real problem with True View and third person. I think it's due to the uniform color and the fact that ingame blade is actually a 2d rendering. I haven't thought of a good fix yet.

As for the field of view, play with cg_fov until you find a setting you like.

03-18-2003, 12:01 PM
I've just tried it, and it would be great if it wasn't for seeing thing like if I was looking through a glass ball. Is there any way to fix this?

03-18-2003, 05:24 PM
Unfortunately, it's a hardware limitation. Remember you're playing this on a computer with a single monitor. There's no way to simulate a realistic fov without fisheyedness, multiple monitors, or VR equipment. It's just the way it is. :(

03-19-2003, 10:02 AM
Now the question would be if there's a way to make the third person view spin around... (I also think the third person view makes some "sense" with jedi since they are supposed to feel things...).

03-19-2003, 10:23 AM
I guess I could but I don't see a point to it. Maybe something for backstabs, but it's not a mission critical thingy.

03-21-2003, 10:26 PM

03-23-2003, 10:50 AM
Too long since i posted ideas... :D

I know for now new animatins are not possible, but what i don't know is, canyou play an already existing animation backwards?

To be more specific, I was looking at the backstab, and thought it would probably do a good sword thrust if played backwards and with the saber looking the other way (maybe it could be the crouch+forward+attack for yellow stance).

03-23-2003, 07:35 PM
uh, the saber is bolted to the hand on the player model model. I'm not sure it's possible to alter the orientation on the fly like that. But it might be possible to run animations backwards. I'm in the middle of checking out all the animation calls out at the moment.

03-26-2003, 02:43 AM
I downloaded MotFv2 the other day, and I have to say that I think it is amazing. I'm trying to get the clan I used to be in (omni) to set up a CTF server that runs it all the time, hopefully they will.
I'm glad you included the cvars you did for personalizing how true view works (among other things) and the justice zone is hilarious. I was wondering if you could include an option through cvars to have trueview work a little differently. My idea is that if you were using your lightsaber you could play in normal third person, and when you performed one of the 3 "special" moves, you would zoom into trueview. Well I guess not really zoom in, that wouldn't be possible I dont think, but switch to true view for the move and then switch back afterwards. Maybe it could also come on when a backstab is performed, and since you can't move anyways while doing these moves, aside from rotating the yellow dfa, it'd be a great time to get a dramatic camera angle.
Are the damage values the same for light sabers? I feel like duels are more lethal when I play with MotF on, but I might just be confused by the dodging.
Thanks for making such a cool mod, I enjoy playing it a lot.

03-26-2003, 02:14 PM
That's a interesting True View idea but I'm not sure about the usefulness of it but it sounds cool. :) I'll add it to the ideas to discuss.

As for the sabers, yes, the damage for the saber has been boosted. There's a lot of work planned on the saber for R3. Watch the MotF Forum for details.

Servers would be great but I'm not sure BOFH wants MotF muscling in on his "turf". Try at your own risk. :D

03-31-2003, 06:33 PM
Check out the MotF Forum. There's a multiple number of new threads.

Including the introduction of a official Beta Server!

04-09-2003, 01:40 AM
Well, I got a prototype of the Mouse Sabering up and running. It's pretty cool and has a LOT of potential once we get the HUD stuff and settings tweaked.

Also, the MotF website is almost ready. We're currently waiting for our hosting admin to give us the data we need to get our perl/cgi run site up and running. Til then, continue to use the MotF Forums.

04-09-2003, 01:42 AM
Also, BOFH backed out of the server deal after I refused to be blackmailed into giving him MotF source code.

04-14-2003, 03:09 AM
Well, the website is up at motf.jk2files.com. It looks like the other members of the team prefer to post status updates on the site so I'll close this down and start posting there as well.

Razor Ace