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dev-Zach
01-28-2003, 06:17 PM
team DSbr has just finished their first movie documenting their ownage of jk2. Here is the description:

Trick jumps and frag highlights from team DSbr, the original pioneers of jk2. Darksaber has been defining how the game is played since day one. We now present our revolutionary efforts to the masses with this latest video. See why DSbr has been cocky, rude, arrogant and down right mean when you feast your unworthy eyes on this sick entertainment.

you can find the download link over here: http://www.own-age.com/vids/videoprofile.asp?id=386

Bilbo Skywalker
01-28-2003, 06:21 PM
are you IN darksaber by any chance??



yeah its pretty damn good actually, nice matrix type effects (like 360 degree spins in mid-air < the camera i mean)


nice shots, and nice editing overall. :




:wavey:

P4ulo
01-28-2003, 07:23 PM
what u think daemon? u blind foo
Nice shots. Dl it, its worthy

Bilbo Skywalker
01-28-2003, 07:37 PM
shut up p4ul0oo, i dont see yoiu making a great jk2 vid now do i :P




:D

The Truthful Liar
01-28-2003, 07:44 PM
Cool, I'm in this as well. Very old footage though, that name is from last year summer-fall. The sniper shots were the best, I really appreciate it when people know how to use the disruptor in close combat.

Ronin_Medjai
01-29-2003, 02:27 AM
Very Cool Moive nice editing especially the spin in 3d cameraman thing im guessing you did that while watching the demo and changing angles using the cg_thirdpersonangle? or did you like freeze in-gmae (him turn on noclip) and you pan around him. It was a nice effect either way I might contact you about my movie later its got a diff based theme then urs tho. It seems a lot of JKO players play with FPS which is intrigueing to me as I always played CS and other FPS but in JKO I never play in FP I like to be able to see my surroundings. I know a lot of those tricks and moves you did I can snipe with the disruptor at close range as well. But How the Heck Do You Fly Around the Map so dang Fast and i checked both speed and rage werent on in the certain scenes im thinking of plus i noticed you "bouncing" off walls or something ultimately escaping death and flying back up all around the map with ur flag wtf was that noclip as well? I noticed a few familiar names like BSB and SA_BountyHunter I mostly play on the zone so i dont know all those in-game server clans or teamwarfare ones although on other threads I hear that FK Fallen one guy is REALLY good is that why you included you killing him in ur movie? ;) hit me up when im on the zone man and we can discuss a few things Im CM_Ronin1 Im making a movie with my RPG club website is www.roleplayersinc.com stop by our forums anytime.

Ronin_Medjai
01-29-2003, 02:27 AM
damn thing posted twice :P

Ronin_Medjai
01-29-2003, 02:28 AM
Very Cool Moive nice editing especially the spin in 3d cameraman thing im guessing you did that while watching the demo and changing angles using the cg_thirdpersonangle? or did you like freeze in-gmae (him turn on noclip) and you pan around him. It was a nice effect either way I might contact you about my movie later its got a diff based theme then urs tho. It seems a lot of JKO players play with FPS which is intrigueing to me as I always played CS and other FPS but in JKO I never play in FP I like to be able to see my surroundings. I know a lot of those tricks and moves you did I can snipe with the disruptor at close range as well. But How the Heck Do You Fly Around the Map so dang Fast and i checked both speed and rage werent on in the certain scenes im thinking of plus i noticed you "bouncing" off walls or something ultimately escaping death and flying back up all around the map with ur flag wtf was that noclip as well? I noticed a few familiar names like BSB and SA_BountyHunter I mostly play on the zone so i dont know all those in-game server clans or teamwarfare ones although on other threads I hear that FK Fallen one guy is REALLY good is that why you included you killing him in ur movie? ;) hit me up when im on the zone man and we can discuss a few things Im CM_Ronin1 Im making a movie with my RPG club website is www.roleplayersinc.com stop by our forums anytime.

Kstar__2
01-29-2003, 10:55 AM
just edit and delete;)

ow, and still d/l the movie:p

DSbr-HaZe
01-29-2003, 11:09 AM
we are the best

acdcfanbill
01-29-2003, 08:59 PM
If you want to get truely technical, it should be we're. :p

anyway, nice video, good to see that Dsbr is modest too :rolleyes: :D

Lightsaberboy
01-29-2003, 11:06 PM
hmmm...i like! I recognized some names of people ive seen before. Fk Fallenone, i think i saw your name in it, not sure though..

razorace
01-30-2003, 05:03 AM
I don't know what you people are thinking, but a 100+ meg demo is a bit too big. :(

DeTRiTiC-iQ
01-30-2003, 07:14 AM
Its actually pretty small for a vid of its length.

P4ulo
01-30-2003, 11:11 AM
If u want quality u canīt think of file size.

acdcfanbill
01-30-2003, 12:05 PM
also, this has a great beginning, that whole saturday night fever theme just cracks me up :p

JDKnite188
01-30-2003, 08:41 PM
That was amazing stuff. Its as if the members of Dsbr were part of the map. The bouncing, jumping, speed, aim, and timing were sw33t. No wonder Dsbr has your favorite JK2 gods.

The music was crappy though besides for that 70s thing in the start. I hate bands that can't sing worth poop (like punk bands in general).

ryudom
01-30-2003, 10:20 PM
heh great movie, had some awsome wall floating, i always wondered how to get around the alt route in bespin towers heh. the mid air stun baton kill was pretty rediculous too hehe

Lightsaberboy
01-31-2003, 05:40 PM
it was funny when that person detonated all thse amkissers at the end. lmao

DeTRiTiC-iQ
01-31-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by ryudom
heh great movie, had some awsome wall floating, i always wondered how to get around the alt route in bespin towers heh. the mid air stun baton kill was pretty rediculous too hehe

about that stun baton kill.... no wait. I'm not permitted to say.

griff38
01-31-2003, 11:29 PM
That was a trip, very creative. The orbit shots were really really good,Love to see some more.

ryudom
01-31-2003, 11:34 PM
detritic you CAN'T do that! lol you you gotta say!

Ronin_Medjai
02-01-2003, 05:31 AM
*walks in a 3 piece suit and puts on some Raybans :cool: and pulls out a Silver Tampon Applicator thingy....or so it seems* Ok Folks if youll step this way and look at this Red light *FLASH* What you experienced was a Great JKO player In action Brutally Stunning another JKO player to death in mid-air I am a member of the Stun Baton Manufactureres and it appears this baton was defective Thank You for your time! :confused:

ryudom
02-01-2003, 12:20 PM
ok... lol

RpTheHotrod
02-01-2003, 11:00 PM
I really don't get the point of a clan making a movie of how "1337" they are using exploits. The first half was like showing off the wall climb exploit.

Some of the shots were good, but common. They did good making the movie clip, but the in-game stuff just just normal, stuff I see everyday.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-01-2003, 11:34 PM
please die or something :p

Wall-Gliding is a BUG, not an exploit, it has very little actual benefit in a game, except occasionally saving your ass from a fall.

It also makes the game more fun, something which Raven have a lot to learn about, anyone who objects to bugs that make a game mofr enjoyable just has the wrong attitude.

Also note that many of those clips are from waaaay back when JK2 had only just been released.

RpTheHotrod
02-01-2003, 11:53 PM
Know what an exploit is...right?

Abusing a bug for an advantage.

SO...it's an exploit :)

Check out Nutri's movie for some real gunner shots

ryudom
02-02-2003, 12:18 AM
exploit or not, its still cool as heck, and was very enjoyable to watch.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-02-2003, 12:42 AM
yes Nutri has real gunner shots, but do you have any idea how long those shots take to get?

I've played him numerious times and its very rare for anyone, even him, to get a shot suitable for a video.

Oh, and as far as i'm aware Dsbr-Buffeh has beaten Nutritious in every meeting.

The Dsbr video shows how a gunner wins a fight, not how a gunner gets some pretty air-shots. The majority of kills will always be on the ground, so that's where the skill should be focused.

Incidently, I design my maps with wall-gliding in mind, and I know other members of the CTF community do as well. As a result, any use of wall-gliding in my maps is NOT an exploit.

Have a nice day.

Lathain Valtiel
02-02-2003, 09:46 AM
Wow, I hate to say this, but what crawled up your butt and died Det? This ain't like you to a point.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-02-2003, 11:48 AM
posted at 5:42am

Moradivh
02-02-2003, 03:22 PM
In Nutri's defense, I've seen him make those pretty shots all the time when he's playing for fun, almost every time I've seen him play. He was overflowing with em' while making his video. I'm not saying flying sniper hits are practical in competitive CTF, well not often, but he does them all the time in FFA, etc., when he's on the ball. It's great to watch, great to die from even. So funny.

And it's not like all his vid kills are mid-air only. Both DSBR and Pistolero have a little of both. But you can't claim flying shots like that are useless in a "real fight," or that skills "should" be focused in any one area.

I liked the DSBR video fine. It shows off more CTF moves, while Pistolero is about cool ways to kill with small arms. Both vids took a huge amount of skill and effort to finish and they're both great.

I've never seen Buffeh play, Idunno who's better. But anyone who claims that Nutritious or DSBR has the "less skilled video" is just biased. That goes for Detritic and RP. I'm sure Nutri's vids aren't about saying he's better than everyone else. He's not trying to outdo anyone. They're just for fun, and maybe to share with the masses the JO moves that're possible at that level of play.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-02-2003, 03:57 PM
I never suggested Nutritious' videos weren't skillfull, I was acting in Dsbr's defence about remarks that their's wasn't.

Air-Shots aren't an art, they are something that just comes instinctively at times.

The fact is, anything that can be done in a game, is practical at times. The mistake comes when people deliberately set out to play in a "cool" way, Dsbr has repeatedly demonstrated that the best result comes from simply doing the most appropriate thing, hence the nature of the video. What I objected to was the comparison between Nutritious and Dsbr when the videos are attempting to demonstrate very different things.

On a side note: Currently i'm a bit annoyed with myself because I play really poorly unless i've got some calm music playing. At other times i've got more mid-air sniper shots in a row than on Pistelero. Inconsistancy is far more irritating than just being rubbish :( I think I fell into the trap of trying to do "cool" shots, so my playing skills suffered.

RpTheHotrod
02-02-2003, 04:08 PM
Dude, I NEVER said it wasn't using skill. Stop putting words into others people's mouth or I'll report you for attempting to spread lies to bring down other posters.

I never said anything bad about Nutri's, I just mentioned I don't see why people brag about exploiting (in dsbr movie). They had some decent shots in that one, but I was talking about wall climbs.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-02-2003, 04:17 PM
Fine, go ahead and report me. I try to build bridges and somehow make it worse. I give up on this community. It does nothing but bring out the worst in people.

But it might help your case if you read carefully what I (and other people) write in future, I don't see how I somehow put words in you mouth since from my perspective you are defending Nutritious, not putting him down.


Some of the shots were good, but common. They did good making the movie clip, but the in-game stuff just just normal, stuff I see everyday.

This is what you said about Dsbr, this is what I was defending. I even tried to elaborate my meaning to try and get rid of the unintentional apparant jab at Nutritious.

Ronin_Medjai
02-02-2003, 04:51 PM
basicly Im going to have to go with moradiv on this one...

They both showed great skill in diff forms of combat but you CANNOT tell me that the mistake is in trying to do something cool IE staged moves in videos cause I know a few secrets about something and I could reveal it if necessary.

Just move on both the videos were very great and entertaining which is what they were made for entertainment or well sorta dsbr claimed theres more of bragging rights which seemed kind of arrogant to me but I let it slide cause according to the vid it seems they have earned them.

Lets try and make more movies instead of griping aboot whos is better I am currently making my own movie except its more like the SW movies all scripted and choreographed and crap.....if any of ya wants to help hit me up on msn messenger lordsod521@hotmail.com or you can go to our site www.roleplayersinc.com but its not all the way finished yet just got to finish the interface and upload it our forums are at www.roleplayersinc.com/phpBB2 so you can hang out there while we finish up the site.

As far as them mid-ai sniper and pistol shots go I can do those all the Time and when I play in FFAs I seem to get "good enough for a video" shots all the time I wish I could just have it recording all the time I could easily throw a movie together in a day or two if it was.

Cant we all just get along and enjoy ours and others work and not make it into a competiition?

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-02-2003, 05:13 PM
People still play FFA? I haven't seen a populated FFA server in months. All the FFA games i've played have been on private/locked servers.

My point still stands, if you are trying to just do something cool, you are far more likely to screw up. Better that you just get better at everything, then cools shots will just happen.

[Edit: Oops, forgot to say the following]

The key words in Moradivh's post were "playing for fun". Due to the extremely frustrating "pull-whorism" associated with publc CTF servers, its been a while since i've been able to enjoy a game, and hence I haven't been able to relax into a game. Now with FFA servers its slightly different, pull-whorism is less beneficial, so its easier to enjoy a game. I've noticed my skills are significantly higher in FFA as opposed to CTF.

But I offer the following advice for anyone who actually cares about my point: Find a nice song, set it on repeat and play a game and just enjoy the music, try not to concentrate on the game too much. Ignore all the frustrations, such as pull-whores. Do all this and from my experience you will get some amazing shots. Now you've just got to figure out how to duplicate this mindset on demand.

RpTheHotrod
02-02-2003, 06:17 PM
Det.... you should actually READ someone's post before you comment on it. I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU

man...some people...

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-02-2003, 06:34 PM
ermm your post came after mine, with a gap of at least enough time to have seen my post. Plus we'd had a conflict of opinion, what exactly was I supposed to think?

lllKyNeSlll
02-02-2003, 07:01 PM
ahaha, that mid-air stun shot was hoodwinker getting killed. HE told you not to tell?

lllKyNeSlll
02-02-2003, 07:04 PM
Det is right. Every one good knows that its good to land a shot with splash on the ground or wall. The only trick shots that are commonly done is to shoot a rocket at someone's feet, knock them into the air, and hit them against a wall. Besides that, mid-air's aren't really useful. Most of the special frag vids make the players seem better than they really are, since midairs aren't practical unless ur chasing somenoe with flag who jumps and you can't possibly follow.

RpTheHotrod
02-02-2003, 08:54 PM
Well, it's a bit obvious I wasn't talking to you. Look at your thread, was I? No

Now, look at this

"But anyone who claims that Nutritious or DSBR has the "less skilled video" is just biased. That goes for Detritic and RP."

Now, since you NOW read the above replies, who do you think I was talking to?


Skill is nearly...non existent in a game with such random factors in it. I wasn't saying any of them weren't skilled. I was saying, it does take more "skill" meaning effort, in nutri's video than dsbrs.

Moradivh
02-03-2003, 01:42 AM
:confused:

You were talking to me? Hahahah, now I'm as confused as Detritic. Unless you're replying within about 10 minutes of a post, you may wanna specify who you're talking to. It's not that obvious.

Anyways, I hear ya Det. I play best in a trance, let my instincts take over. If I get all stressed about my opponent's cheeze, or doing some sexy move, then I'm usually painting a target on my head. And I know such selfish thoughts about individual glory can totally ruin good teamplay.

RP: before you go reporting me, you may wanna review quotes like: "it does take more 'skill' meaning effort, in nutri's video than dsbrs." I mean, duh, isn't that EXACTLY what I said your claim was? How am I putting words into your mouth?

Here's one thing that threw me: skill and effort. They're not the same. Not even in JO, where the gameplay is somewhat limited by pull-whoring and kick-spamming and whatever equivalent that's in your gametype. But.... somebody can have all the experience in the world and still not do as well as someone with natural talent. So basically, when you say "skill" I assume you mean SKILL, not effort. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Anyways, some background for my opposition: I don't play BaseJK CTF. I don't know sophisticated team tactics. I don't wall-glide with speed/rage. I don't rocket people into walls so that they're sitting ducks. I don't do mid-air sniping. And I don't make demos with special observer code to do slow-mo's and spectator rotations and all that crazy **** in the Quake3 Engine. And I find all this VERY impressive when I see them from DSBR/Starcraft/Nutri/etc.

Between the Pistolero and DSBR vids, I don't know which took more "effort," but I'm pretty damn sure they were both REALLY time consuming. It looks like the DSBR one was a long while in the making. It's 10 freaking minutes long for God's sake. And anyone who thinks Pistolero was a piece of cake should just look at the notes Nutri included with the zip file -- all his own demo's, all compiled, listed, converted, cut and edited by himself.

For the most part, I STILL think that anyone who claims that one took more work than the other, or that one is somehow more valid when it comes to "skill," is just being overdefensive and biased.

RP, don't get me wrong: Nutri and I are MSN buddies. I advised him a little on his latest vid. I even suggested/sent him the Pistolero song by Juno Reactor, so if any of you think that music's really ghey, you can blame me. ;) They're my MP3s.

I'm not trying to get into a flame war. I like Nutri alot, he's got mucho skill (enough to beat one of DSBR's strongest teams recently with his own clan, if I recall correctly). And it bugs me to see his talents downplayed on these forums, after he puts all this work into a "just for fun" video. I think people need to chill and stop clamoring for jealous rivalry between the video authors. Stop being so edgy, it's pathetic. Better to keep that in the game, not let it defile some really amusing vids.

Aoshi
02-03-2003, 02:53 AM
dont bother arguing with rp. he's one of those saber rpg n00bs that argued with the entire twl community in the /kill thread. he was the one that thought that /kill was a bug that needed to be removed and he kept asking raven to patch it out. he's also probably one of those idiots that kept asking raven to make new patches to get rid of the backstab in .03 and the 'unfair force powers' and dfa in 02. in short he's the type of person that ruins games cause he sucks and cant do what other people do. so his logic is to ask to have things removed because he doesnt have the common sense to adapt. i swear some of you people really need to grow up. you keep posting about 'honor' and 'exploits' when all you're really saying is "i cant beat this person or learn this move and i'm too lazy to even try so why dont i ask the developers to remove that technique and thus force the rest of the community down to my level." just so you know there is no such thing as 'honor' in a world of anonymity and if you cant realize this then well i feel really sorry for you because you are constantly going to be worried about something so idiotic and mundane the internet.

OH NO I JUST POSTED SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HURT SOMEONE ELSE'S FEELINGS I HAVE NO HONOR I'M GONNA GO CRY NOW AND BEG THE GOD OF INTERNET CHAT TO FORGIVE ME!!

ok now that that has been said. det is right. there are no such things as cheats or exploits. the reason is because there are always 2 sides of the argument but which side can prove his opinion is actually true? one side will say that xbug was intentionally left in the game so it is not an exploit and it is part of the system. the other will say that the gamedevs left it in on accident so use of xbug is an exploit and it should be banned. now which side is correct? the answer is neither because someone claiming that they can read someone else's mind over the internet is just plain stupid. however the person who is arguing that xbug was intentionally left in the game at least has some solid proof i.e. that the 'bug' IS IN THE GAME. whereas the person that says that the bug is unintentional has no proof whatsoever and is simply making an assumption based on a biased opinion. therefore the person who is arguing for the use of the 'bugs' or 'exploits' is MORE RIGHT but not completely right because he at least has some sort of evidence to support his claims. so by this argument wallgliding, strafejumping, and /kill are not exploits or bugs, and since they are part of the system they will continue to be used.

some people take this game way too seriously. they need to calm down and realize that this is simply a game and not a way of life.

Ronin_Medjai
02-03-2003, 03:49 AM
It seems the community is split into two seperate entities because saying that the people in TWL are the most l337 players in JKO is a biased opinion most of what Ive seen and heard about the TWL community is CTF and all those wall floats,and strafe jumping/speed stuff. But on the other hand calling someone a saber RPG n00b is uncalled for as those "saber RPGs' may not attend to your liking but I run an RPG club for JKO and we like to roleplay in JKO,but when it comes down to it and its WoW time for my Clan I kick arse in NF Sabe which im sure many of those TWLers would lose to the extreme good NF sabers Clans/players. there are many diff gametypes in JKO to say that one person is the most leet is fictatious as there is no way he can be the best in CTF, FF gunz,NF guns,CTF,Jedi Master,Hydroball,duel,captue the holocrons and many more its impossible. And JKO was built wrong anyways JK was so much better JKO is a multiplayer game where you can be a jedi with a gun and that my friends is Wrong according to the Star Wars realm which George Lucas built and go ahead and clown the SW realm cause you are simply wasting your time discussing a SW game that YOU play to totally contradict yourselves I dare ya to flame! JKO is a Game tho as previously said so however you play that game is good as long as you get your 49.99 worth then lucasarts achieved their goal....and the word n00b is so misused these days without newbs none of you l337 peeps would exist who else would you get kills off of? All said and done you have ruined this thread about a simple task to post a cool JKO vid you made everyone get all mad and turned it into a mass argueing fest. Go to your room all of You! and No TV for a week!

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-03-2003, 04:21 AM
Actually there is one exploit, which gives players an insanely unfair advantage, most of the good players are aware of it.

However you have to be aware of its existance to actually notice it being used, its kinda hard to see.

Ronin_Medjai
02-03-2003, 04:28 AM
yawspeed? lol

Aoshi
02-03-2003, 05:04 AM
well i've never minded the 'saber rpg n00bs' at all as long as they dont try to tell me how to play my own game. i could care less about backstab and all that other stuff, but when they go and complain about something that pertains to the game I play and they dont (i mean who the hell suicides in a saber only ffa or a duel or who would wallglide, strafejump, ect??) then i get annoyed. i just say to let people play their game and you play yours. i never complained about people backstabbing me because .... IT NEVER HAPPENED. even in .03 it hardly ever happened and when it did i didnt really care. i just got pissed cause i let myself be killed in such an idiotic way. so the people that complain about 'exploits' like wallgliding dont even play a gametype where wallglide would be relevant. they just whine and complain about something that doesnt even matter to them. i could also understand if the 'exploits' even somewhat pertained to them but they dont. i mean if someone /kills in a ffa then who cares? they just lost a point. perhaps it denied you of yours but just get over it and accuse him of being a lamer. then when he's typing a response, kill him and there you go you got your 1 point back. people just need to quit complaining and adapt to things because everytime they've complained they've perhaps made themselves happy but made hundreds of others pissed... selfish bastards =)

oh and about the videos. i liked nut's better. more original and had really nice timing. dsbr's was just like a trick jump vid and a shots vid combined into 1. dont get me wrong i'm not criticizing it i'm just saying i liked nut's and star's better.

oh just on a side note. twl isnt just ctf. it's tdm ff, tdm sabers, duel nf, and duel ff. virtually all of the best players compete there.

Ronin_Medjai
02-03-2003, 05:11 AM
where is the thread for stars? never seen that one

Aoshi
02-03-2003, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
Actually there is one exploit, which gives players an insanely unfair advantage, most of the good players are aware of it.

However you have to be aware of its existance to actually notice it being used, its kinda hard to see.

well that exploit is just for n00bs that cant aim in the first place and need to use that trick to actually hit anything. i dont really mind it because i can outrun those things anyways even when i'm not using speed and they travel far too slow to hit me when i'm capping.

ronin just go search on own-age.com in the jk2 movies section. it's called "demolitionist"

Luc Solar
02-03-2003, 07:11 AM
Personally I'm sick and tired of logging on a Full Force All Weapons FFA and constantly hearing people whine:

"LAMER! U pushed me! U kicked me! Lightning wh0re! You shot me in the back! You used a big gun! I was unarmed!! You didn't bow! You killed me even though I was only going to run past you with my rocket launcher and chat with my buddy on the other side of the map! Dishonorable scum!"

BUT

Accoring to your theory Aoshi, the reconnecting-bug (I mean: "feature") is also a part of the game and should not be whined about. Exploits do exists. Bugs do exist.

There are a lot of things in JO that should have been done better. The game is filled with screw-ups. People are just so immature that they feel stuff like the reconnecting bug are OK simply because it allows them to WIN, OWN or whatever.

1.03 was horrible. Sabers did 0 damage. The only viable tactic was to press you BUTT in the opponents FACE and execute a ridiculous backstab (with the help of yawspeed) which was a one hit kill.

Everyone must understand that Raven screwed up with 1.03. The game had become ludicrous.

But here's my point: WINNING OR LOSING ONLINE SHOULD NOT BE A FACTOR WHEN CONSIDERING IF A GAME IS FAULTY OR NOT.

I can not play saber only 1.04. It is simply too boring. The saber is useless. Kick-kick-kick. Kick.
Too bad I suck with guns :D

Ps. By "The Exploit" do you mean homing missiles?

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-03-2003, 07:32 AM
Wall-Gliding may be a bug which can be "exploited", but it requires skill to use. A true exploit is one which gives a skill-less player a rediculous advantage, aka the rocket bug. Yes, it can be outrun, but its moving twice as fast as the regular homing shot and its twice as agile (the think method of the rocket is called twice as often), plus you don't even have to be facing in your target's direction when you fire. You can run away from them and fire, and it'll STILL hit them.

GEEZus
02-03-2003, 09:00 AM
I SAW SOMEONE CHEATING IN A SERVER RP! GO POLICE IT AND SHOW THEM UP!!!

Aoshi
02-03-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Personally I'm sick and tired of logging on a Full Force All Weapons FFA and constantly hearing people whine:

"LAMER! U pushed me! U kicked me! Lightning wh0re! You shot me in the back! You used a big gun! I was unarmed!! You didn't bow! You killed me even though I was only going to run past you with my rocket launcher and chat with my buddy on the other side of the map! Dishonorable scum!"

BUT

Accoring to your theory Aoshi, the reconnecting-bug (I mean: "feature") is also a part of the game and should not be whined about. Exploits do exists. Bugs do exist.

There are a lot of things in JO that should have been done better. The game is filled with screw-ups. People are just so immature that they feel stuff like the reconnecting bug are OK simply because it allows them to WIN, OWN or whatever.

1.03 was horrible. Sabers did 0 damage. The only viable tactic was to press you BUTT in the opponents FACE and execute a ridiculous backstab (with the help of yawspeed) which was a one hit kill.

Everyone must understand that Raven screwed up with 1.03. The game had become ludicrous.

But here's my point: WINNING OR LOSING ONLINE SHOULD NOT BE A FACTOR WHEN CONSIDERING IF A GAME IS FAULTY OR NOT.

I can not play saber only 1.04. It is simply too boring. The saber is useless. Kick-kick-kick. Kick.
Too bad I suck with guns :D

Ps. By "The Exploit" do you mean homing missiles?

yea but raven has had plenty of time to edit that kinda stuff out and they havent whereas the disconnect bug is new. i dunno i wouldnt want to be a duelist and have to deal with it, but it's not my cup of tea so i never worry about it. the saber damage is what makes .04 ludicrous. i mean for christ sake it's a ****ing sword made of light. how the hell can it only do 30 damage? if raven would have been smart and made the lightsaber at least a normal damage everything would be fine. duelist complain about wanting "movie like duels?" just up the blocking rate when you have your saber out. personally i think 1 stab in the back should = instant kill. maybe then i'd actually use the saber as more than a ****ing shield when i play. i personally am not for or against the disconnect bug. it's an 'exploit' just like everything else but at least the other 'exploits' require skill and dont give someone an overwhelming advantage. i dunno if raven patches it out then good for them. if not then i see more people leaving the game in the near future.

really i just think people need to see this thing for what it is. it's a ****ing game for crying out loud. you cant have 'honor' in a game where you run around killing things.. i mean WTF?? for someone to have 'honor' first they have to exist and be rational. you cant say that ghosts have 'honor' because they are transient. the internet is transient like that too. take for example, i can choose to be male or female young or old anything i like and then i can make multiple personas around whatever type of person i want to be. who's to say that i really act this way or act that way? there's no solid link through the internet to me so me, as a physical being, cannot have 'honor' through the internet. the closest thing that links the internet to me is my i.p address which can also change if i want it to. therefore in the internet i dont 'exist' except as a transient being somewhat like a ghost who can choose to do or be whatever i want. you people need to see this and stop trying to get people to act 'honorably.' if you want 'honor' then set up a server and make the rules there and then enforce those rules. dont go into other people's servers or public servers and try to make others conform to your ideals. that's like walking into someone's house and telling them to act a certain way or like walking into a restaurant and demanding that another patron serve you. if you dont like the way a server is run then get out. im sure they dont like you complaining and taking up their slots just like you dont enjoy their style of play. the moral of this post? just play the damn game and stop bitching.

ryudom
02-03-2003, 09:36 AM
haha i didn't even notice the rocket went twice as fast :P theres another huge advantage to the technic that wasn't mentioned as well though ; ) i love that bug hehe

dev-Zach
02-03-2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Moradivh

I'm not trying to get into a flame war. I like Nutri alot, he's got mucho skill (enough to beat one of DSBR's strongest teams recently with his own clan, if I recall correctly)

false. his team beat DSbr's WORST lineup when we had ****ty rusted playing for us. His team of toosexy(fury), ajax(ringer), and faith(nutri) just recently lost to DSbr STARTERS (matt, meta, narbes) in xtgl. considering dsbr doesnt really play jk2 at all anymore as opposed to /2ise playing 24/7, this is quite a good accomplishment.

still the best

dsbr-buffeh
02-03-2003, 10:13 AM
I like /2ise :D

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-03-2003, 11:04 AM
feel the love!

InfErnO
02-03-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
please die or something :p

Wall-Gliding is a BUG, not an exploit, it has very little actual benefit in a game, except occasionally saving your ass from a fall.

It also makes the game more fun, something which Raven have a lot to learn about, anyone who objects to bugs that make a game mofr enjoyable just has the wrong attitude.

Also note that many of those clips are from waaaay back when JK2 had only just been released.
Also, circle strafe jumping is an exploit, if not cheating. It should be taken out.

InfErnO
02-03-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by GEEZus
I SAW SOMEONE CHEATING IN A SERVER RP! GO POLICE IT AND SHOW THEM UP!!!

COG ALERT!

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-03-2003, 04:00 PM
circle/strafe jumping has been around since the original Quake, how can it be a cheat when its a skill in its own right?

By my definition a cheat is something which gives an unfair advantage, circle/strafe jumping is a skill, any advantage gained is well earnt.

InfErnO
02-03-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
circle/strafe jumping has been around since the original Quake, how can it be a cheat when its a skill in its own right?

By my definition a cheat is something which gives an unfair advantage, circle/strafe jumping is a skill, any advantage gained is well earnt.
It was always considered as bug. Carmack wanted to remove it in q3, but the community didn't agree as far as I know.

( ;) for my previous post) hope this helps you to understand the seriousness of my messages.

Spider AL
02-03-2003, 05:04 PM
Hmm, on a tangent, there are some interesting issues with developer involvement that this thread has raised, primarily by Luc and Det:

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ:
By my definition a cheat is something which gives an unfair advantage,

In my opinion, that definition doesn't work too well. Because who's to say what's "unfair"? Some people would say that skill gives an unfair advantage. To some, a low ping gives someone an unfair advantage.

My definitions:

Cheating is the alteration of game engine components by recoding of those components, or the addition of external programs, (such as external client hooks) to supply an advantage that one cannot obtain solely from the game software that comes on the game CD.

Bugs are aspects of the game that do not operate as the developers intended. But not all bugs are bad, rocket jumping was a bug, in Quake 1. It spawned whole new dimensions of play, GOOD dimensions.

Exploitation of bugs is using any and all bugs to your advantage in a game. Now, some bug exploits may be dishonourable, e.g. Supergrip in JK1, Invis-model in JO 1.02. But they still aren't cheats.

***

I have never self-killed in CTF. Not because I think it's "cheating" but because I don't like it. It was a personal choice, and while I've never needed it, I've also never ever whined about someone else doing it, because once you force your personal opinions onto others, you're nothing but a childish fascist.

It's up to developers to decide whether to "fix" bugs or not, depending on their evaluation of whether they drastically imbalance the intended gameplay they envisioned. But it's important that developers not alter gameplay at all, in any patches, unless there's a huge, and I mean HUGE imbalance that's obvious to everyone...

For example, Quake's rocket launcher was clearly the most powerful weapon. It was the focus of the game. And the Surge powerups in JK1 were so powerful that they became the focus of all Full Force games.

Some may say that these were imbalances. But they WERE NOT problems. They weren't something that needed to be fixed. There will ALWAYS be moves that convey advantages, there will ALWAYs be weapons more powerful than other weapons. You can never EVER patch a game enough to alter that reality, and if you try, you'll probably ruin it.

Here's an exception, to highlight my distinction between that which needs to be fixed and that which doesn't: The supershield powerup in JK1 conveyed total invulnerability for thirty seconds. It also respawned after thirty seconds if correctly picked up. Since the first person to get to it usually remained invulnerable for 100% of the subsequent game, the SS should have been scrapped.

***

There are ways developers can make games to avoid making the same mistakes as Raven, so this goes out to any established, or budding game-makers out there:

1. Have a really, REALLY good idea of what gameplay dynamic you're aiming for before beta-testing begins. Make sure you don't make any mistakes prior to release, and you won't have to fix them afterwards.

2. Stick to that idea.

3. Fix bugs, not gameplay.

4. Don't assume that the hordes of fans who are e-mailing you with dire predictions for the game's future unless gameplay changes are made, know what the hell they're talking about. Majority does not make right. Be cautious about any decision you make that could have any effect on gameplay.

5. If gameplay changes are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL, add things to the game. Power up weapons, make powers more devastating, but don't nerf.

6. Wait at least six months post-release before working on a gameplay-altering patch. At least you'll have a better idea of what the game's all about by then.

RpTheHotrod
02-03-2003, 06:26 PM
Might want to read what I said

I said skill...meaning effort...in other words, you can replace the word skill with effort

In games, there normally is no such thing as skill. Clikc a button, get a kill...not really skill. Now, aiming at the right place at the right time and stuff may take some skill, but it takes alot more effort than just shooting area of effect attacks.



Yeah Geezus, I saw that guy. Using invisible saber exploit, of coarse, he got banned ;)

Jeff 42
02-03-2003, 08:21 PM
In games, there normally is no such thing as skill.

So, what's the difference between someone who always finishes at or near the top of scoreboards and someone who always finishes at or near the bottom? :rolleyes:

.:Silver:.
02-03-2003, 08:30 PM
You just can't beat Nutri's bouncing bowcaster shots. Those people wanting others to quit voicing their opinions need to crawl back under their beds and continue rotting.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
02-03-2003, 09:02 PM
Spider, the rocket glitch requires LESS skill to use successfully than the regular homing rocket, as a result I perceive it to be an unfair advantage:

- 1 rocket instead of 2 (can use twice as often)
- rocket moves twice as fast
- maintain the lock even if you look away (like supergrip in JK)
- rocket has twice as much rotation ability
- easy to script it so you use it instead of the regular homing shot every time

As for ping, I alternate between 56k and broadband every few weeks, and I still don't perceive a low ping as an unfair advantage.

ryudom
02-03-2003, 09:17 PM
heh you missed a big point about that rocket trick det ; )

dev-Zach
02-03-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by InfErnO
It was always considered as bug. Carmack wanted to remove it in q3, but the community didn't agree as far as I know.

( ;) for my previous post) hope this helps you to understand the seriousness of my messages.

actually, it was a bug in the earlier quake series but was INTENTIONALY coded into q3 because quake fans loved it. thus it was intentionaly put in jk2 and is not an exploit.

dev-Zach
02-03-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
In games, there normally is no such thing as skill. Clikc a button, get a kill...not really skill.

lol? how clueless can you get. goplay ra3, an aim dependant game and try to make that statment again.

Spider AL
02-03-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ:
Spider, the rocket glitch requires LESS skill to use successfully than the regular homing rocket, as a result I perceive it to be an unfair advantage:

Oh, I agree that it's unfair. But just because we both think it's unfair, doesn't make it cheating.

Bug? Yes. But bugs aren't cheats. We have to draw the line somewhere, and when we do, we have to stick to it.

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ:
As for ping, I alternate between 56k and broadband every few weeks, and I still don't perceive a low ping as an unfair advantage.

You may not think so. I may not think so. But many think so. That is why "things that are unfair" is not a good definition of cheating. Because "unfairness" is not a universal concept. It means different things to different people. I've thought long and hard for the past four years about what makes a cheat a cheat, and the definition I put down above is the closest I've found to a universally acceptable concept.

If it comes unaltered with the game, it's not a cheat. And a bug is a bug, good or bad, only when the developers didn't intend for it to be there.