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View Full Version : Schoolgirl raped... what do you think


El Sitherino
02-03-2003, 08:59 PM
[QUOTE] from a news company

Substitute teacher jailed in classroom rape
01/31/2003

From DallasNews.com staff and wire reports


A Fort Worth substitute teacher accused of raping a 14-year-old girl in a classroom while students watched was being held Friday in the Mansfield jail on a $75,000 bail.

Franklin David Lawson, 21, was arrested on a sexual assault warrant Thursday at his home. Police say the incident took place at Horizons Alternative School last week, but was not reported until a boy in the class told his mother.

"Quite honestly, initially the details were such we were a little skeptical until we talked to all the parties involved,” said Fort Worth police Sgt. Dave Stamp, supervisor of the Crimes Against Children Unit. “Then skepticism turned into shock.”



Franklin David Lawson
Students told police that Mr. Lawson found two boys playing with a girl in a sexual manner and asked them if they were trying to have sex with her. He then told them he would show them how, Sgt. Stamp said. About seven students witnessed the rape but did nothing, he said.

The girl initially denied that an assault took place, but later acknowledged it, Stamp said. The other students’ accounts matched the girl’s, he said.

“They’re all very consistent, the terminology as well as the details of the offense,” the sergeant said.

Mr. Lawson was assigned as a substitute teacher at the school about a week ago. Mr. Lawson is no longer employed by the district, a spokeswoman said.

Mr. Franklin’s mother, Jessie Franklin Lindsey, said she would fight to prove her son’s innocence.

"I want him to know that we love him, that we're behind him, that we're praying with him. Because I know wherever he is, he's praying,” she said. “And that he has the support of his entire family, friends, church members, that we're behind him."

watch the video (http://www.wfaa.com/watchvideo/index.jsp?SID=3678417)


here in texas you can get $500,000 dollar bail bond loan. i think he shouldnt get a bail what do you think.

Pnut_Man
02-03-2003, 09:02 PM
That is one sick substitute teacher, and some crappy ass 14 year old students..

He did tramatize the girl for life, therefore no bail for him ;)

El Sitherino
02-03-2003, 09:10 PM
I agree it is very tragic and it disturbs me very much.

Lord Tnuc
02-03-2003, 09:29 PM
That man deserves to be put in a sack and beat with pipes, in my oppinion.

matt--
02-03-2003, 09:42 PM
I consider myself an evil maniacal bastard, and I wouldn't go to this far to get a sub in trouble...but I do know some people that know no limits, and I would not put it past them.

They should get some hard evidence. Let him out on bail.

ShockV1.89
02-03-2003, 09:52 PM
The word of a few 14 year old students? Come now... let him out on bail and find some solid evidence. Semen samples, adult witnesses... not a group of 14 year old kids saying "I saw it!" How many teachers have been mothballed because a bunch of kids decided to get back at a teacher for failing them or being harsh in class?

I always look at this sort of situation with a bit of skepticism, although I agree it is a very unnerving thought. If he is guilty of this, I hope he gets the harshest crime. Specifically, send him to any prison. There is some honor among thieves, and child molesters dont usually survive long in the prison system.

El Sitherino
02-03-2003, 09:52 PM
they have enough evidence they found the missing security tape in his apartment. a few days ago. on the tape was him raping the girl.

ShockV1.89
02-03-2003, 09:54 PM
Oh. I guess in that case he should be held.

This brings up an interesting point, though. Should he be held in a normal prison like any other suspect? Bear in mind, child molesters are usually targeted by other inmates for various forms of abuse. Whether or not he is deserving of it is yet to be determined. He might be killed before being convicted of it.

I'd say keep him in a separate yet secure prison until sentencing.

Reborn Outcast
02-03-2003, 09:58 PM
That is disgusting. What a bad person. I heard that people in prison don't take well to child rapists or wife beaters so I don't think he'll fit in if he goes to jail.

Psydan
02-03-2003, 11:44 PM
I think that that is sick and disturbing, and I really feel bad for the children at that school, I think that its also very strange that his mother would make such bold statements, I wouldn't encourage my children after something like that. Prison? Good idea, let a group of his peers judge him, he gets what he deserves. I guess he's a good person from his mother's veiw, but I seriously am revolted by this.

Pnut_Man
02-04-2003, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Oh. I guess in that case he should be held.

This brings up an interesting point, though. Should he be held in a normal prison like any other suspect? Bear in mind, child molesters are usually targeted by other inmates for various forms of abuse. Whether or not he is deserving of it is yet to be determined. He might be killed before being convicted of it.

I'd say keep him in a separate yet secure prison until sentencing.

I hope the child raper is ready for big fat gay Bubba :P

ShockV1.89
02-04-2003, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Psydan
Prison? Good idea, let a group of his peers judge him, he gets what he deserves.

That's not justice. He hasnt been pronounced guilty yet. Remember innocent until proven guilty?

Psydan
02-04-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
That's not justice. He hasnt been pronounced guilty yet. Remember innocent until proven guilty?
K, well After he's pronounced guilty (did he say video proof?) stick him in there. I don't really care, I just thought that the whole thing was disgusting, and that this guy has some major problems.

Breton
02-04-2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
they have enough evidence they found the missing security tape in his apartment. a few days ago. on the tape was him raping the girl.

Can you get a link on that? Because I just don't belive he is guilty. I mean, seven 14-year olds with disciplanary problems who report such a crime 5 days after is the only evidence, and none of the people that knows the suspect belives he would ever do something like that.

Clemme w/Stick
02-04-2003, 10:43 AM
Thats very disturbing. The worst part is, that the children who watched and didnt do anything may be facing juvenile charges. Thats almost the most distubing part about this. Well, I think that the children who were watching, should have done something to prevent this happening.

Its very disturbing and I's rather not think about it.

-Clemme

C'jais
02-04-2003, 10:47 AM
Guilty until proven Innocent I say.

And f*ck Biblical wisdom such as forgiving the sinner, since I don't believe in that dump anyway.

[/stinging sarcasm]

ShadowTemplar
02-04-2003, 11:35 AM
More details, bitte.

What we have in the first post (didn't look at the vid) is a bunch of children reporting very similiar stories a relatively long time after the event.

It could be that those children had a grudge against that particular teacher.

The consistent stories could be induced, or prearranged (there are actually some really scary examples of the former from Scandinavia, where people have been sentenced for crimes that it was later found out that they could not physically have committed (ie: they couldn't possibly have been on the scene, ect).

Thing is that if you keep asking a child if someone did something to him/her, then he will confirm, even if it didn't happen. A test was made once, where a child was asked repetedly, with breaks inbetween, whether he had ever been caught in a mousetrap. Now his mother knew for a fact that he never had.

And in the beginning he denied that it had ever happened. But after having been asked three or so (I believe) times, he told the researchers that he had in fact been caught in a mousetrap. And after a while he could describe the whole, imagined, scene consistently.

It goes for adults too. Another test. Another place. A bunch of people who had been to Disneyland. They were shown a commercial for Disneyland where every Mickey Mouse-custumed entertainer was edited to have a Bugs Bunny custume.

And then, after seeing this, they were able to tell, without lying, that they had once been to Disneyland and shaked Bugs Bunny's hand. They most certainly hadn't (BB is a Warner Bro's character, and they are bagged, tagged, skinned, and hung above the gates as a warning if they try to enter Disneyland).

"The human mind is infinitely malleable." - Orwell

So, in short: Solid evidence to back up these witnesses.

El Sitherino
02-04-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
they have enough evidence they found the missing security tape in his apartment. a few days ago. on the tape was him raping the girl. isnt that solid evidence?

__CKY__
02-04-2003, 08:22 PM
Ewwww I wish we could slit the throats of all child molesters they are sick.:mad:

Andy867
02-05-2003, 06:32 PM
I agree with C'jais, guilty until proven innocent. All suspects are guilty, otherwise, they wouldn't be suspects now, would they??

ET Warrior
02-05-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Andy867
I agree with C'jais, guilty until proven innocent. All suspects are guilty, otherwise, they wouldn't be suspects now, would they??

No, not all suspects are guilty. They may be suspicious, which makes them suspects, but they don't have to have done anything. If a man is murdered right after getting a huge life insurance policy the wife if often a suspect, but she could be completely innocent. If he really did rape that girl (which is amazingly disgusting) Then he's guilty, but 14 year old students are not to be trusted methinks. There would have to be real evidence and it would be in the news if they found it wouldn't it?

Kain
02-05-2003, 10:28 PM
i feel i may vomit...he should prolly be dragged out into the street and castraighted(spelled right?), as all petiphiles and those charged with anykind of rape.

Andy867
02-05-2003, 11:34 PM
That last part of my post ET was actually a quote from the fanfilm Troops, but it kind of has some truth behind it. But seriously now, The whole idea of innocent until proven guilty and guilty until proven inncocent is really happening at the same time. obviously we are led to believe they are guilty, but also innocent, which is why they are given a "fair trial."

FunClown
02-06-2003, 07:23 AM
I say wait and see what the court decides. We don't want justice by the media.

I really can't see how these 14 year olds could sit and watch. If that happened when I was 14, the teacher would be pressing charges on us. So to me, given that article, this doesn't really add up.

A swimming coach in my country was charged on child sex charges because three girls reported him to the police and the swimming coach was given a lot of crap by childrens rights activists and the media.

His friends and family did stand by his innocence though.

It turned out the girls made up the story about him molesting them because they didn't like him. Its sad, because in the six months, he aged so much and you wouldn't even recognise the way he looked before it all happened.

I would be very careful to be quick to judge.

ShockV1.89
02-06-2003, 09:46 AM
I say wait and see what the court decides. We don't want justice by the media.

Agreed. Too much media covereage can lead to a lynch mob mentality. Those never work.

Trust me, if he's found guilty, he wont last long in prison anyway...

El Sitherino
02-06-2003, 08:16 PM
hes been found guilty but because of the columbia thing they arent talking about much else. they went over the tape. and he is being jailed. he has gotten a bail bond. but they are awaiting his retrial. i dont know this is confusing me. i think they wanna raise bail but arent. the mother is crazy though.

FunClown
02-06-2003, 11:09 PM
If he's been found guilty, why can he still pay bail?

I thought you went to prison, before the sentence (the punishment, not the guilt) is actually decided, and the time you spent was already counted.

But he won't be coming out any time soon if found guilty. That is a pretty terrible and sick crime if true imo.

munik
02-06-2003, 11:34 PM
Funclown, he was arrested one week ago. If his trial is already done with, I'd be suprised. I'd be suprised if it has even started.

I can't find much info on this, just what InsaneSith posts, and that's pretty much incoherent. But you're right, if he is found guilty and sentenced, he can't have a bail set for him. Bail is just to make sure a defendant doesn't flee the jurisdiction before trial. I think he's getting charged with sexual assualt on a minor or something like that. I doubt that he's going to prison for a long time. I'd be suprised if he got 5 years, but he'll probaly be out on parole in a few years. If it even takes that long.

And I don't think prison is as bad as some of ya'll think. I've only heard a few second hand accounts of it, but I don't think it's all asslovin' and killing childmolestors. Not all prisoners continue to break the law when inside prison, especially when the penalties are increased for inmates. Not everyone who breaks the law is a "criminal".

El Sitherino
02-07-2003, 12:20 AM
sorry about being incoherent but well they only talk about things now for like a minute since they just keep spending there time about peices being found in new places. and all that stuff. so im just peiceing little bits i catch. im not all sure about whats going on but they are having like a redo thing for some reason or another.

SkinWalker
02-08-2003, 12:07 PM
I watched this unfold on Channel 4 as they caught the guy, etc.

My first thought was that this idiot was a 21 year old substitute that was still 14 or 15 in the head. I meet a lot of people that want to work with kids because that's the peer group they identify with. I've also fired a few people for identifying too closely with them. In my job, the adults are the "professional parents" and the kids are the kids.

The school district that hired him, in my view, should review it's hiring standards as well as their training standards. Our new employees don't get to be alone with kids until they've received certain training. Even then, they are consistently evaluated and observed for their interactions with kids. If they cannot maintain the rules of the program and become corrupted, they are disciplined or fired.

I suspect that this guy got minimal training ("here's a class... make sure everyone has a hallpass if they go to the bathroom") and even less close evaluation of his interactions with kids. An experienced teacher, vice-principal, or counselor would have noticed the signs that he identified too much with the kids.

SKinWalker

Luke Skywalker
02-08-2003, 03:52 PM
Ok heres why the story doesnt make sense... a girl getting raped in the hall. First indication right there thats its fake. What girl do you know that wouldn't scream and ball her eyes out if she was getting rapped? In most juniour highs there are a few hundred kids... most likely about 4-500. Now don't you think that SOMEONE would have heard? Point proven. Second point... the tape. Now, what junior high school in America do you know, that has enough money to install video cameras in their hallways... Ive heard of cam's in classrooms... but all over the halls? Unlikely... but possible... Third point. It sounds like one of those sex stories you read off some cheasy porno site... no literate person would just walk up and say "Let me show you how to have sex." Its one of those fantasy stories kids make up in their early teen years... but all in all... you people are a prime example of how crappy the American Justice system is... if you can't win in the media you can't win at all... :rolleyes:

El Sitherino
02-11-2003, 06:26 PM
dude this is an alternative school there arent hundreds of kids in it. only like 30.

FunClown
02-14-2003, 09:53 AM
I'm wondering what Luke Skywalker is too. The facts don't really seem to be what you would expect and seems rather fishy. Doesn't seem to add up.

On another similar note, one of the teachers when I was in grade four was a paedophile. I was in the other grade 4 class. The interesting thing was that he had a foster child. The teacher was really nice (seemed that way anyway). He used to always talk about his foster child and talk like they were best friends and stuff and brought him into school to meet us a few times. But everytime the teacher wasn't there the foster child used to always say swear words about him and call him a d*ck head. I found it weird how he used to always talk about him that way; since I only knew the teacher at school, not the d*ck head at home (to be nice).

I didn't think anything of it at the time since I was only 9 at the time but it does make sense now. The teacher ended up going to jail. He wouldn't be getting treated very well. Australian prisons have an unwritten law about how paedophiles get treated. They are fair game to say the least.

ShadowTemplar
02-14-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
isnt that solid evidence?

Like Qui-Gon said: Can you give me a link? If it was on a big TV station, then chances are that it's on the web.

Skinwalker: I agree that that school should tighten its security and teacher training programs (don't you have a central training program?)... Most schools could do with that, IMO, even those where no charges have been raised... But I don't think that we should just judge him without trial. That would be like living in La Republica de los Bananas...

Andy867
02-14-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Luke Skywalker
Second point... the tape. Now, what junior high school in America do you know, that has enough money to install video cameras in their hallways... Ive heard of cam's in classrooms... but all over the halls? Unlikely... but possible...

Actually, the Junior High near me has 14 security cameras, while the High School has 38, so yes it is very possible. Especially in this day in age where stuff like this happens more than what it did or was reported 5-10 years ago.

El Sitherino
02-14-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Like Qui-Gon said: Can you give me a link? If it was on a big TV station, then chances are that it's on the web.

Skinwalker: I agree that that school should tighten its security and teacher training programs (don't you have a central training program?)... Most schools could do with that, IMO, even those where no charges have been raised... But I don't think that we should just judge him without trial. That would be like living in La Republica de los Bananas... its a video of him raping her they cant show it on tv.

ShadowTemplar
02-15-2003, 09:39 PM
or was reported

Great! You remembered that detail. Most people don't. More power to you.

its a video of him raping her they cant show it on tv.

Ah, I didn't mean that I wanted to see the tape (as if!). What I want is a link to somewhere that says that this tape has been found. Preferably this link would be to some institution that will get its ass kicked if it uploads something false, so that we have some kind of authensity on it.

SkinWalker
02-15-2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
What I want is a link to somewhere that says that this tape has been found. Preferably this link would be to some institution that will get its ass kicked if it uploads something false, so that we have some kind of authensity on it.

I followed this story closely when it broke for a couple of reasons. First, I live in the metropolitan area of this school. Second, the school was an alternative school for the demographic I work with: at risk juveniles.

I don't recall ever hearing or reading about the recovery of a video tape, though it is very possible that I missed this news bit. I did a search in GoogleNews for several key words relating to the story and each news ariticle that I could find also did not make mention of a video.

If one does exist, however, and if it was recovered as evidence, I would not expect it to be released for anyone not related to the case. And rightfully so. Only the prosecution and the defense should have access and the journalists should stay out of the mix. A man's life hangs in the balance.

It could be that the kids in this school are lying. It's been done in the past, especially when faced with a teacher that they disagree with. The guy was a substitute and may have interrupted their "norm" with a new set of standards. Being an alternative school, the students are, for the most part, socially challenged in some way. Meaning, their delinquents or otherwise unable to function behaviorally in regular class at a regular school.

On the other hand, it has not been unheard of for a young, male authority figure to take advantage of youth. Preists have done it. Prison guards have done it. Uncles have done it. Stepfathers have done it. Etc.

We'll just have to let the legal process take its course in this matter. Either way, David Franklin won't be working with kids anymore in the future. Even if found innocent, its unlikely that an organization will hire him.

SkinWalker

Arkum
02-17-2003, 01:34 AM
(shudders)(vomtis) that's sick. a teacher and a student, sick. and those kids just watched?? sheesh, call the police!