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Luc Solar
02-11-2003, 05:55 AM
Yeah...the ultimate question :D

(I realize this is a touchy subject, but let's not turn this into a flaming-contest.)

Ok:

Is sex only meant for reproduction?

Let’s take a normal(?) guy like me. Let’s say I have sex twice a week. Let’s say I stick with my wife for the rest of my life and have 2 kids with her. I’d end up having sex simply because of the pleasure it gives me...about than 6.000 times. The ratio here (reproduction/pleasure) is 0,0003 to 1.

Does the Bible regulate sex? Sex for pleasure = sin?

Whether or not it is ”safe” or happens before/after marriage is not the point here.

And if casual sex is not a sin, where does the God draw the line? Is S&M a sin? What about pooping on someone? Use your imagination…I’m sure you get my point. :D

And if sex is okay, who’s to say what is allowed and what’s not? During certain times only the Missionary-style was accepted. Is that what the Bible says? No ”tricks”? Thou shalt not spank?

And does sex = intercourse in the eyes of God? We all know there's lots you can do with your pants on. :naughty:

Opinions?

ShockV1.89
02-11-2003, 08:06 AM
*runs away*

C'jais
02-11-2003, 12:09 PM
If sex was indeed only meant for reproduction, I'm absolutely sure that it has never been practiced that way.

In all marriages, no matter how pure and saintly, I think sex plays a role beyond merely making kids.

SkinWalker
02-11-2003, 02:14 PM
Bonobo monkies routinely engage in sexual intercourse as well as other sexual practices for pleasure and relationship building. That would indicate that in nature, sex is accepted in non-reproductive instances. Their sexual practices include homosexuality, oral sex, and the use of objects for sexual pleasure (masturbation).

Bonobo monkies have never been observed engaging in sex as aggression (rape), but rather for what appears to be improving relationships. Female Bonobos appear to strengthen friendships between one-another by engaging in various forms of lesbian sex. This also helps them counter dominance by male Bonobos.

I think that one has to look at sex not as good or bad, when not for reproduction, but rather the ethics involved in comparisson to societal norms. It is unethical in most societies to engage in sex with anyone who does not consent, is exceedingly young, unable to make decisions for themselves, etc. Many would argue that it is wrong to engage in sex without protection from disease and pregnancy, and common sense dictates that if you don't put a raincoat on and end up with a child, you are 50% responsible for that child's well being.

SkinWalker

Jedi_Monk
02-11-2003, 03:42 PM
Lord have mercy :roleyess:

To quote Monty Python, "Every sperm is sacred" :D Every one has the potential to create life, and to waste them on self-gratification is the sin.

Besides, studies show that Catholics who wait til marriage have more and better sex than your average person :naughty:

munik
02-11-2003, 04:24 PM
How do they know it is better if they have no other experience to compare it to?

Reborn Outcast
02-11-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Ok:

Is sex only meant for reproduction?

No it is meant for pleasure also BUT as the Bible says, ONLY WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE MARRIED TO. Thats the only time I believe and the Bible says you can have sex, whether for reproduction or for pleasure.

Originally posted by Luc Solar
Does the Bible regulate sex? Sex for pleasure = sin?

Whether or not it is ”safe” or happens before/after marriage is not the point here.

Actually that does matter. In the Bible, sex for pleasure BEFORE marraige IS SIN. Sex with YOUR WIFE for pleasure is NOT sin. I think the only regulation the Bible has sex is do things that you both agree on. Don't force your wife to do something she doesn't want.

Originally posted by Luc Solar And if casual sex is not a sin, where does the God draw the line? Is S&M a sin? What about pooping on someone? Use your imagination…I’m sure you get my point. :D

I don't see how pooping on someone consists as sex. See my above response.

Originally posted by Luc Solar
And if sex is okay, who’s to say what is allowed and what’s not? During certain times only the Missionary-style was accepted. Is that what the Bible says? No ”tricks”? Thou shalt not spank?

Where did you hear about the "only the Missionary style" thing? That is untrue. The Bible doesn't talk about positions. See my response 2 things up.

Originally posted by Luc Solar
And does sex = intercourse in the eyes of God? We all know there's lots you can do with your pants on. :naughty:

Umm you can have oral sex with your pants on. Anything that involves the genetials can be considered "sex." Kissing is not sex. I am allowed to kiss my girlfriend if I'm not married to her. But I can't give her a hand job because that would be sin because I'm not married to her.


Just my $0.02 :D

Mandalorian54
02-11-2003, 06:16 PM
Sex with your wife is fine. Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.

other than with your wife it's wrong. And I suppose that is were God draws the line. Based on my knowledge of the BIBLE that is what I think.

ImmolatedYoda
02-11-2003, 06:25 PM
::walks out from underneath rock::
ok...is this the wrong place to ask what "S&M" is?

back on topic, i think that sex is meant for pleasure and also for reproduction. perhaps its because im an atheist and have never read the entire Bible, but i think that God should have no say in it. however, i also think that abstinence should be observed until you find THE someone.

Mandalorian54
02-11-2003, 06:30 PM
back on topic, i think that sex is meant for pleasure and also for reproduction. perhaps its because im an atheist and have never read the entire Bible, but i think that God should have no say in it. however, i also think that abstinence should be observed until you find THE someone.

just asume for a moment that if God did exist, do you still think he should have no say. That's like playing the game the sims but having no say in what thier house looks like or what possessions they can and canot use.

El Sitherino
02-11-2003, 07:22 PM
ill go with choice A bob.

munik
02-11-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by ImmolatedYoda
::walks out from underneath rock::
ok...is this the wrong place to ask what "S&M" is? Good question to ask, as you can't really infer the meaning from context. Sadism & Masochism. It's sort of like kinky sex I guess.

Sadism means they derive sexual pleasure from recieving or inflicting pain. The word comes from Marquee De Sade, a twisted gentlemen who has written some interesting works. Check them out sometime.

Masochism means someone derives sexual pleasure from humiliating, or being humiliated. A situation would be one person is dominated, and the other is the dominator.

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
I am allowed to kiss my girlfriend if I'm not married to her. But I can't give her a hand job because that would be sin because I'm not married to her.It's a sin to give a tranny a handjob, unless you are married to her/him :confused: ? Dude, I'm pretty sure that topic is not covered anywhere in the bible.

Lime-Light
02-11-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
Lord have mercy :roleyess:

To quote Monty Python, "Every sperm is sacred" :D Every one has the potential to create life, and to waste them on self-gratification is the sin.

Besides, studies show that Catholics who wait til marriage have more and better sex than your average person :naughty:

Um...you just said sex for pleasure bad, and then that Catholics who wait have more and better sex. Thats sex for pleasure. I dont really like insulting people, but someone has to let you in on it. You're an idiot.

And as far as sex for purposes other than procreation being wrong, its stupid. Sex isnt a sin because sins are irrelevant.

Reborn Outcast
02-11-2003, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by munik
It's a sin to give a tranny a handjob, unless you are married to her/him :confused: ? Dude, I'm pretty sure that topic is not covered anywhere in the bible.

I'm just giving an example. I'll do some more research on this and get back to you.

Lime-Light
02-11-2003, 09:52 PM
lol

Reborn Outcast
02-11-2003, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Lime-Light
lol

Such spam. C'jais please do something about this.


Munik what I meant was, giving someone a hand job is simulating sex, therefore I believe it is wrong as does the Bible. Oral is simulating sex, sloppy thirds and all that are simulating sex.

Reborn Outcast
02-11-2003, 10:48 PM
Ah here we go,

Matthew 15 18-19
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Romans 13 12-14
The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature

1 Corinthians 6 17-19
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

Ephesians 5 2-4
and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.


Oh and there's a lot more where that came from.

El Sitherino
02-11-2003, 11:00 PM
well who said a handjob is immoral? i dont remember hearing anything about a handjob being immoral. not to mention did god say it, if the bible said it how you know its true, maybe the dude made that up?

Luc Solar
02-12-2003, 04:29 AM
Personally, I think anything that get's you aroused is sex. If you get off by licking a salmon, then that is sex for you.

The "marriage thing" or "only with thy wife"-thing is not the issue here in this thread.
It matters when talking about sex in general, but since we already have a thread about that, I wanted to avoid repeating it.

I don't see how pooping on someone consists as sex.

You'd be amazed of what sort of things turn people on. Ever heard of "Golden Showers"? If not, use your imagiation. :D

Where did you hear about the "only the Missionary style" thing? That is untrue. The Bible doesn't talk about positions.

You're right (I suppose). The Bible says nothing about that, but as the name of the position implies, our Christian missionaries have had something to do with it. :)
It was (is?) taught to infidels as the only acceptable way to have intercourse. (Don't want to know how the missionaries found out that they needed to teach this to locals. :D )

This is a bit beside the point, but I think it is much MUCH worse to kiss a woman (other than your wife) than grab her butt or whatever. I feel kissing is worse than a handjob.

Sex with your wife is fine. Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.

Sex is great for the relationship and it affects your health in a positive way. There are countless researches on the subject. Have lots of sex and you live longer and stay healthy. It's exercise for the body and the mind. :)

On the other hand we do have "studies" that show masturbating and doggy-style sex causes hair to start growing from you palms, you go deaf, blind, impotent and sterile. :rolleyes:

Now... you can't talk about sex. No-one can know that you have done it. Be quiet so that no-one hears. Hide all evidence of what happened. That's just common (religious?) courtesy...right?

I think religion must keep it's hands off sex. (Other than the marriage-thing). I don't see how religion could regulate it. Sex will always(?) be seen as something dirty, something sinful in the eyes of God.

All I believe God can say is: don't do anything that you both don't want to.

Anything that goes beyond that is just silly.

Thou may wiggle this but not that! :D

Luc Solar
02-12-2003, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Matthew 15 18-19
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality......

Nice quotes BUT the whole point of this thread is, in fact:

What is sexual immorality?

:D

That's the whole problem. What's is ok, what's not? Obviously we are not free to do whatever we want according to the big book, right?

What I'm saying is; there's no way any religion can satisfactorily regulate sex. It's impossible...unless the rule is: "do whatever you want" or "sex is for reproduction only".

Jedi_Monk
02-12-2003, 12:51 PM
Um...you just said sex for pleasure bad, and then that Catholics who wait have more and better sex. Thats sex for pleasure. I dont really like insulting people, but someone has to let you in on it. You're an idiot.
Self gratification as in masturbation (where there's no chance of procreation) and casual sex where contraceptives are involved (where there's little chance of procreation and no openness to it). You have too much sex with too many different partners and you're playing Russian Rulette, that's a fact.

You can have as much sex as you want (in the context of marriage), but you must allow for the possibility that life will be created. It's less stressful and therefore better sex because you don't have to worry about the condom breaking :rolleyes:

ShockV1.89
02-12-2003, 02:22 PM
You're lying if you're trying to say you've never beat the meat. Anyone who forces a man to not do it as well as not have any sex until marriage (which could be as late as his 30s, depending on the person) is asking for one pent up, frstrated, easily pissed off guy. I'm sorry, religion aside, it's simply biological. Men have needs that need to be released from time to time. If they dont, they get a little wiggy on you.

And for you 13-14 yr olds out there... dont try to comment on the above statement, you're simply not old enough (trust me).

(you know, this could explain a lot of violence that occured in the past. Religion kept men from releasing their tensions in any way, shape, or form... so they went buggy and waged wars instead)

El Sitherino
02-12-2003, 02:44 PM
its been known that pented up sexual feelings lead to rape.

Reborn Outcast
02-12-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
You're lying if you're trying to say you've never beat the meat. Anyone who forces a man to not do it as well as not have any sex until marriage (which could be as late as his 30s, depending on the person) is asking for one pent up, frstrated, easily pissed off guy. I'm sorry, religion aside, it's simply biological. Men have needs that need to be released from time to time. If they dont, they get a little wiggy on you.

Its ok to do that. If someone else does it to you and your not married to them, thats when it becomes wrong in my eyes.

El Sitherino
02-12-2003, 04:11 PM
but then you miss out on all the fun;)

Mandalorian54
02-12-2003, 06:20 PM
it is hard to draw the line, but that's why we have a concience.

A hand job is definetly sin. but it's not sex.

if you can't have fun any other way than sex, you obviously have no life. But I know what you mean. no you don't miss out on all the fun, just get married.

and until your married, wait patiently, it will be worth it.

El Sitherino
02-12-2003, 06:39 PM
the wink means j/k.

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
No it is meant for pleasure also BUT as the Bible says, ONLY WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE MARRIED TO. Thats the only time I believe and the Bible says you can have sex, whether for reproduction or for pleasure.

Again a part of the bible that can do immesurable damage...

In most Inuit cultures a standard gesture of hospitality is to offer your wife to the stranger. This is done simply because your village's gene pool needs to be stirred up once in a while and these communities are very isolated. So in order to escape the problem of genetic degeneration, you share your women with strangers...

But of course if you don't realize that there is such a thing as evolution this concern is irrelevant...

Reborn Outcast
02-13-2003, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
In most Inuit cultures a standard gesture of hospitality is to offer your wife to the stranger. This is done simply because your village's gene pool needs to be stirred up once in a while and these communities are very isolated. So in order to escape the problem of genetic degeneration, you share your women with strangers...

But of course if you don't realize that there is such a thing as evolution this concern is irrelevant...

Are people living in places like New York City, Hong Kong and Boston like the Inuits? The Inuits don't follow the Bible, they have their own religion. I don't think its customary for a New Yorker to offer his wife to a stranger.

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.

Actually it is supposed to be quite healthy...

[...]God draws the line. Based on my knowledge of the BIBLE[...]

Welcome to the "random fundamentalist on my Ignore List to win a hundred credits" draw. Next draw is on the next 30th of February. Void where prohibited and everywhere else.

Who gives a flying what the bible says?

Are people living in places like New York City, Hong Kong and Boston like the Inuits? The Inuits don't follow the Bible, they have their own religion. I don't think its customary for a New Yorker to offer his wife to a stranger.

Read up on the History of the World. The Inuit communities were christened... Their culture was all but wiped out (well, surprise, surprise).

So they actually were forced to follow the foolish christian doctrines... And besides, we are getting to a really good point: Only follow the bible if and when it is rationally advisable... Good point. Keep that in mind.

Reborn Outcast
02-13-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Who gives a flying what the bible says?

I could say the same for an atheist. Who gives a flying what an atheist says because I know I'm saved by the Bible? I don't say that however because there's a thing called respect for others people beliefs/religions/anything. I don't believe that you have that.

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
I could say the same for an atheist. Who gives a flying what an atheist says because I know I'm saved by the Bible? I don't say that however because there's a thing called respect for others people beliefs/religions/anything. I don't believe that you have that.

I may at times fail to respect people whose bodies are in the 21st century, but whose philosophical background belongs in the pre-Dark Age nonsense of the bible. You may wish to remember that Christainity has done nothing of value to the world, whereas atheism has... So you owe atheism a BIG favor, but I don't owe Christianity anything.

Reborn Outcast
02-13-2003, 07:41 AM
One of the reasons Christianity hasn't been able o do anything is because it HASN'T BEEN ALLOWED. Atheists push it away whenever it tries to, it has been disallowed in public school whereas "atheist ways" are being taught in things like Science all the time. Christianity hasn't been given a chance and thats why its very hard for it to do anything.

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
One of the reasons Christianity hasn't been able o do anything is because it HASN'T BEEN ALLOWED. Atheists push it away whenever it tries to, it has been disallowed in public school whereas "atheist ways" are being taught in things like Science all the time. Christianity hasn't been given a chance and thats why its very hard for it to do anything.

Christianity had 18 ****ing centuries to create progress before atheism even showed up. But what did it do all the time? Not a single ****ing thing! So DON'T feed me the "religion is being discriminated by science" crap.

ShockV1.89
02-13-2003, 09:31 AM
Chill, guys... :cool:

Schools dont teach "atheist ways." Rather, they simply dont teach a religion. Are they to choose one particular religion to teach? That would be a violation of church and state (schools being state institutions), and besides, it's not feasible. If you taught christianity, you'd alienate the muslim population, the jewish population, the wiccan population (growing, in most schools, even if it is a little odd), and so on. It's best to stay neutral and let the kids pick their own religion (or their parents, as it usually is). Besides, isnt that what the bible promotes? Free will? Let people choose, dont brainwash them at an early age. Thats why I think that of all the christian factions, Born-Again is the best one. Probably where I'd go if I had to choose.

As for them teaching science... come now. Science is far too important to our society to not teach it. It's not a religion. Science has an advantage over religion in that it's, generally, hard facts with solid evidence. Religion is based on faith (very intangible and subsceptible to human errors and flaws) and ancient books that may or may not have been modified from their original forms.

Science is best taught because it's a surefire thing, there's usually no arguing with it. You can argue that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. You cant argue that night and day are exactly the same amount of time on Sept 21 and March 21.

El Sitherino
02-13-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Chill, guys... :cool: i agree. this man is a wise one.

ShockV1.89
02-13-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
i agree. this man is a wise one.

Confucius say... ;)

Luc Solar
02-13-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
*runs away*

:confused:

Back so soon, Shock? :D


Btw - our schools teach Christianity.

Hmm..let me rephrase: our schools tell about christianity as well as other religions.

That reminds me >> A while back some muslim parents took their kids (3-5 year olds) away from nursery school and started "rioting", because the kids had a play where everyone was dancing around in a circle wearing a red hat (just like Santa).

They thought it was horrible that their kids were taught such disgusting insults against islam. :rolleyes:

I hate what religion has done to some people.

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 11:20 AM
OK, let's solve this "faith/fact controversy": Let someone use "the Christian way" to create something useful such as a nuclear power plant that doesn't blow itself up... If you can do that without science, then I will accept "the Christian way" to be the basis for school classes. Until you have done that, I hold Christianity to be useless, crappy, murderous BS. And unlike you, I'll have something called proof...

selfishB
02-13-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Luc Solar


I hate what religion has done to some people.

yes .....blowing up etc.

ShockV1.89
02-13-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
:confused:

Back so soon, Shock? :D


Btw - our schools teach Christianity.

Hmm..let me rephrase: our schools tell about christianity as well as other religions.

That reminds me >> A while back some muslim parents took their kids (3-5 year olds) away from nursery school and started "rioting", because the kids had a play where everyone was dancing around in a circle wearing a red hat (just like Santa).

They thought it was horrible that their kids were taught such disgusting insults against islam. :rolleyes:

I hate what religion has done to some people.

lol I couldnt keep quiet.

I'm all for being informed about all the religions. Heck, I'd even go so far as to suggest that all schools teach about all the major religions (which many of them do). It's good to be informed, and religion is such a large part of the world society that not being aware of the aspects of it would just be ignorance.

What I'm against is school being taught on certain religious outlines. Ex. Science class teaching the creation theory as fact, citing god and the bible as their main sources. Or history class not teaching anything about the effects the muslim religon had on much of the world, or teaching it with a bias against muslims from a christian point of view. Thats simply wrong. Teach neutral, let the kids decide where they want to be. School is not the place to preach.

C'jais
02-13-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
School is not the place to preach.

Which is what many Christians in here interpret as a serious insult to their religion, because not preaching is viewed as "unchristian".

Horsesh/t.

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
Which is what many Christians in here interpret as a serious insult to their religion, because not preaching is viewed as "unchristian".

Aaah, but it is. It is heathen.

ShockV1.89
02-13-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
Which is what many Christians in here interpret as a serious insult to their religion, because not preaching is viewed as "unchristian".


Well, they are right in that not preaching is unchristian. It's part of being a christian to try to convert other people to christianity. But school isnt the place for it, and if it's insulting... boohoo, cry me a river. You dont see muslims or jewish people whining about it...

ShadowTemplar
02-13-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
You dont see muslims or jewish people whining about it...

Actually you do. Every branch of faith creates its own fundamentalists...

ShockV1.89
02-13-2003, 12:01 PM
True. I guess we should be thankful that the Christian fundamentalists dont fly planes into buildings. (they just blow up abortion clinics... :rolleyes: )

Reborn Outcast
02-13-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
Christianity had 18 ****ing centuries to create progress before atheism even showed up. But what did it do all the time? Not a single ****ing thing! So DON'T feed me the "religion is being discriminated by science" crap.

Umm atheism has been around for well past 18 centuries. In case you didn't know:

Atheism:
1.
a. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
b. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

2. Godlessness; immorality.


Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
OK, let's solve this "faith/fact controversy": Let someone use "the Christian way" to create something useful such as a nuclear power plant that doesn't blow itself up... If you can do that without science, then I will accept "the Christian way" to be the basis for school classes. Until you have done that, I hold Christianity to be useless, crappy, murderous BS. And unlike you, I'll have something called proof...

Ok you don't seem to get it. Christianity is a RELIGION. RELIGIONS DO NOT TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO BUILD MACHINES. Therefore your analogy about the power plant is flawed.

Mandalorian54
02-13-2003, 06:20 PM
well shock, you act as if the christians are out of place and it's the athiests country and they get to make all the rules. This country was founded by bible believing christians, which is why it's a free country. evry other country at the time was like comunist, or muslim.

you can't stop people from preaching, many have tried, even killing those who preach for preaching. If we were just tring to expand our religion we wouldn't exacly be willing to die would we?

so if you don't like our preaching you can cry.

and you do such a good impression of people when they cry, you must have a lot of experience with crying. I kid, I kid.

Breton
02-13-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
well shock, you act as if the christians are out of place and it's the athiests country and they get to make all the rules.

But they should get to make the rules, simply because they aren't affected by religion (wich might decrease their ability to rule, sorry to say it (BTW, don't say I'm flaming your religion, because I didn't say "christianity", I said religion in general)

This country was founded by bible believing christians, which is why it's a free country. evry other country at the time was like comunist, or muslim.

Fer one thing, it didn't exist communism at the time US was founded, so all the "civilized" countries were christian, but they still hadn't a lot of freedom. A lot of the most oppressing countries throughout time has been christian.

And you say that all the muslim countries were oppressing. But for most part, they were more free than countries based on christianity.

so if you don't like our preaching you can cry.

And if you don't like your religion being critisized, you can cry as well.

Tyrion
02-13-2003, 08:45 PM
Antheism is not taught in school. Science and evolution(note that's it's a theory,and most teachers(mine at least) cautioned that while it's an accepted theory,the pupils dont have to follow it.) are taught.

Now,if you're saying that Science shouldnt be taught in schools..Dark Ages here we go again...

Edit- as for the um..subject...I withold all ideas on the matter,as I havent experianced it first hand.

...I think...

:D

Lynk Former
02-14-2003, 08:27 AM
Sex is a powerful tool, it can create life, take away life and can change peoples lives forever...

The view of sex has changed A LOT over the years, people feel more free to express themselves sexually.

...I came here late didn't I... hmmmmmm

shukrallah
03-05-2003, 11:18 PM
im late too, even though i saw this thread a week ago, i think....


Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
And if you don't like your religion being critisized, you can cry as well.


i wont cry, ill fight back.....




Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Christianity is a RELIGION.


no, to the world its a religion, but to a christian its really a relationship with Jesus Christ.



my view on the topic

sex is fine if your married, and its with your wife, like it has been said many times....but i think if u get into all that really sick stuff, its not ok anymore....(wont go into that)..... u have to be really careful because, if u even just look at a woman and want to have sex with her, u have already done it in your mind, so its a sin. which means if ur married u have committed adultury. sex is something God gave to humans, to express there love for one another, meaning between a man and his wife, not 2 men or 2 women. people have screwed it up with pornagraphy, and tv.




to a christian its not about converting people, its about saving people. i think we do get the word out, but not as good as we would like, you know somewhere in the world right now, someone is dying because they believe in christ.... i hope to be on of them one day! the bible says ur supposed to preach everywhere, to tell the word all over the world...... the school is in the world, so school is another missionary feild.

about ur athiest ruling thing, its sort of happend, other countries are sending missionaries over here, to america to preach the word of God! thats not good at all, that means we as christians are falling behind, we shouldnt be! but we are.

look as a christian my job is to save people, if u dont want to be saved u dont have to be.

-luke

RpTheHotrod
03-06-2003, 12:41 AM
Sex in the Bible is for not only reproduction, but also pleasure between a man and WIFE. Notice, I said WIFE not SOME WOMAN.

That about sums it up.


p.s.- If it was ONLY for reproduction, I doubt a pleasure action would be there

BigTeddyPaul
03-06-2003, 05:12 AM
{takes in depth breath while preparing to write thread}

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
No it is meant for pleasure also BUT as the Bible says, ONLY WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE MARRIED TO. Thats the only time I believe and the Bible says you can have sex, whether for reproduction or for pleasure.


What about Abram/ Abraham and Sarai and Hagar? Father Abraham had sex with more than his wife. The founder of the Jewish line had sex with more than one woman. This disproves that.


Originally posted by Mandolorian54
Sex with your wife is fine. Doing it constantly may not be healthy phisically but I suppose it's fine.

other than with your wife it's wrong. And I suppose that is were God draws the line. Based on my knowledge of the BIBLE that is what I think.

I love this from a guy who has the phrase: pimping on the streets as his location. Telling people they are wrong is not right dude. Say you disagree or whatever. Also tests have proven that people who have sex more often than not live longer healthier lives. You, my friend, are way off on this one.


Originally posted by Mandolorian54
just asume for a moment that if God did exist, do you still think he should have no say. That's like playing the game the sims but having no say in what thier house looks like or what possessions they can and canot use.

Heard of free will? Ever read the chapter where angles come and visit and the guy offers his two female daughters to the rioting group of men who want to have sex with the male angels? Did God have no say in that?


Originally posted by Lime-Light
Um...you just said sex for pleasure bad, and then that Catholics who wait have more and better sex. Thats sex for pleasure. I dont really like insulting people, but someone has to let you in on it. You're an idiot.

And as far as sex for purposes other than procreation being wrong, its stupid. Sex isnt a sin because sins are irrelevant.

How dare you pick on Jedi Monk. Calling him an idiot because you do not approve in his beliefs. And for that comment about sex isn't a sin because sins are irrelevant makes you a total idiot. I guess that means, according to your views, that nothing is a sin because they are all irrelevant whatever THEY are because they don't exist. If sins are so irrelevant than why religion? If you are a Christian than you must not believe in sins because he could not have died for anything relevant. Karma --> you get your just deserved by in a way sinning.


Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Ah here we go,

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Romans 13:13
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
1 Corinthians 6 17-19
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

Ephesians 5 3-4

But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

Oh and there's a lot more where that came from.

I guess that all depends on your version.

In my Bible MAtthew 15:19 says: Wicked thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, perjury, slander.

Romans 13:13: Let us behave with decency as befits the day: no drunken orgies, no debauchery or vice, no quarrels or jealousies!

Ephesians 5:3: Forniction and indecency of any kind, or ruthless greed, must not be so much as mentioned among you, as befits the people of God.

I will let you guys be the judge of this one.


Originally posted by Luc Solar
Personally, I think anything that get's you aroused is sex. If you get off by licking a salmon, then that is sex for you.


Ahahahahahahahahahahahah


Luc Solar then hits the nail on the head by pointing out the fact of: What is sexual immorality?


Originally posted by Mandolorian54
it is hard to draw the line, but that's why we have a concience.

A hand job is definetly sin. but it's not sex.

if you can't have fun any other way than sex, you obviously have no life. But I know what you mean. no you don't miss out on all the fun, just get married.


AGAIN the fact that you stated a handjob is a sin is your opinion only. I dare you to point out where in the Bible it says," Thou shall not stroke the salami," OR "cradle to oyster." It also seems to make a lot of sense of stating that it is a sin but not sex. REAAAAALLLLY (in Ace Ventura voice) then how can you get SEXUAL DISEASES from giving and recieving handjobs? Riddle me this riddle me that.


Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
I may at times fail to respect people whose bodies are in the 21st century, but whose philosophical background belongs in the pre-Dark Age nonsense of the bible. You may wish to remember that Christainity has done nothing of value to the world, whereas atheism has... So you owe atheism a BIG favor, but I don't owe Christianity anything.

Really? Then explain to me what was the first book ever made on a printing press? A given set of morals and ethics to billions of people for years on end is nothing? Ever like your Christmas presents? What has atheism brought to the world? I know Christianity also broght the Crusades (what a joke of holy wars), death to billions for their beliefs, and the tyranny of keeping the working man down.

I do not mean to be rude or offensive to atheism at all but I can honestly not think of anything that atheism has broguht besides taking prayer out of the school and people not wanting to pledge to the flag of the US.


Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
OK, let's solve this "faith/fact controversy": Let someone use "the Christian way" to create something useful such as a nuclear power plant that doesn't blow itself up... If you can do that without science, then I will accept "the Christian way" to be the basis for school classes. Until you have done that, I hold Christianity to be useless, crappy, murderous BS. And unlike you, I'll have something called proof...

I can see where you are coming from. The Christian view to this would be that God made the people who discovered nuclear power. He also enlightened them to that technology. He also created nuclear power. Etc Etc Etc. God encompasses all things and therefore we are forever indebted to God.


Originally posted by Mandolorian54
well shock, you act as if the christians are out of place and it's the athiests country and they get to make all the rules. This country was founded by bible believing christians, which is why it's a free country. evry other country at the time was like comunist, or muslim.


HAHAHAHA. Mulsim or Communist. I actually believe that it was the Presbetyrean (sp) people who FIRST came over because they did not like to follow the Church of England. Not too sure about that one. Communist. Communism actually really started in America mostly. AND communism rarely exists. It is mostly Socialism that prevails over Communism. I do believe also that this country is no longer Christian. I believe less than half of all people according to the last census marked Christianity.


Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
no, to the world its a religion, but to a christian its really a relationship with Jesus Christ.

sex is fine if your married, and its with your wife, like it has been said many times....but i think if u get into all that really sick stuff, its not ok anymore....(wont go into that)..... u have to be really careful because, if u even just look at a woman and want to have sex with her, u have already done it in your mind, so its a sin. which means if ur married u have committed adultury. sex is something God gave to humans, to express there love for one another, meaning between a man and his wife, not 2 men or 2 women. people have screwed it up with pornagraphy, and tv.


The first part is unneccessay in my opinion. How does that help the topic? Christianity is a religion. That is why everyone screams for religious freedoms. I, as a Christian, follow the religion of Christianity.

Again how do you know what is sick. Golden shower is sick to some people and not to others. Some women only give head on anniversaries and birthdays because they find it sick and no longer feel they have to do it because they are married.

The whole you did her in your mind you sinned thing is crazy. As a fully functional, past puberty, man who has not experienced sex I find that totally rediculous. I cannot go ANYWHERE without thinking about doing women. Grocery store: I did every female cashier at least once even if they were 350 punds of fat. I look at a woman at my gym in spandex using the stairmaster with huggge juggs and I have to go in the corner. Impossible to do.


My thoughts: No where in the Bible does it state that you cannot have sex before you are married. NO WHERE. Sex to one person is not sex to another. Sex is not something to be taken lightly. Sex is not only for reproduction or it wouldn't feel so good. That is what makes it a special bonding tool with people. People who were and are high ups in the Christianity religion have had sexual lapses. King David had sex with another man's wife then had the man sent to the front lines to die which he did. The sin was that David had sex with her during her menstration period which increases the chance of getting pregnant and then got pregnant. To him it was not a problem until she was pregnant because he knew full well she was married and her husband was away.

One of the rules for sex is no adultery. So if the two of you are not married there is nothing that says it isn't okay. This only entails to man and woman sex. Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

Wow I am tired. This has got to be one of the longest replies to any thread I have ever seen.

I look forward to any good criticism.

BigTeddyPaul

C'jais
03-06-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul
And for that comment about sex isn't a sin because sins are irrelevant makes you a total idiot. I guess that means, according to your views, that nothing is a sin because they are all irrelevant whatever THEY are because they don't exist. If sins are so irrelevant than why religion?

Sins are completely irrelevant. Sins exist in your head alone, as nothing has proved the positive existence of sins.

Why religion? Good question.


God encompasses all things and therefore we are forever indebted to God.

Prove that statement, if you want it to have any kind of relevance in this debate.

Otherwise, I'll skim quickly past any arguments based on this, just as I'll completely ignore someone who uses "souls" as an argument in abortion debates. It's irrelevant. Unless you can prove it.

Communism actually really started in America mostly.

Ever heard of a guy called Karl Marx?

He is German.

I do believe also that this country is no longer Christian.

Just because the majority of a population is religious, does not mean the country in itself is religious. There went your freedom of religion, BTW. To all the Muslim, Jewish etc people on this board, I'd advise you not to call USA a "Christian Nation".

I believe less than half of all people according to the last census marked Christianity.

By "Christian", do you mean Christians, or Protestants?

My thoughts: No where in the Bible does it state that you cannot have sex before you are married. NO WHERE.

Thank you.

Just as it doesn't say anywhere in the Koran that women have to put clothes on their hair.

Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.

So much for "Christian tolerance".

ShockV1.89
03-06-2003, 01:48 PM
Paul, Lime-Light was calling Jedi Monk an idiot for so blatantly contradicting himself.

If Jedi monk is going to condemn people for their actions, he should at least be consistent about it. Otherwise, it does make him look like an idiot. (I wouldnt have been so harsh about it, but still...)

C'jais
03-06-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
i wont cry, ill fight back.....

No you will not.

You will argue back. You will prove how Christianity is best for all.

Fight back and earn my wrath.

no, to the world its a religion, but to a christian its really a relationship with Jesus Christ.

It's a religion. It doesn't matter what you choose to call it. The English language is right when it comes to defining the English language. Not you.

Comprendes?

u have to be really careful because, if u even just look at a woman and want to have sex with her, u have already done it in your mind, so its a sin.

So sex is a sin, in and of itself?

It doesn't say that in the Bible.

sex is something God gave to humans, to express there love for one another, meaning between a man and his wife, not 2 men or 2 women. people have screwed it up with pornagraphy, and tv.

I feel sorry for you.


to a christian its not about converting people, its about saving people.

Sure, go ahead and call it that.

i think we do get the word out, but not as good as we would like, you know somewhere in the world right now, someone is dying because they believe in christ.... i hope to be on of them one day!

So you'd gladly die for your religion? Can I kill you a zealot?

9/11 anyone?

the school is in the world, so school is another missionary feild.

You do not preach religion in school, among gullible, naive kids. They're kids for Chrissakes.

look as a christian my job is to save people, if u dont want to be saved u dont have to be.

So if I say no, that means you'll leave me alone?

I pray it does.

ShockV1.89
03-06-2003, 02:11 PM
You do not preach religion in school, among gullible, naive kids. They're kids for Chrissakes.

This actually raises an interesting point. We know kids are gullible and naive, and can easily be made to believe anything if they're taught it at a young age (heck, look at racists and radical KKK members...).

Wouldnt it make more sense for people to try to teach christianity to their children when they're older (not in schools, parents or others shoudl teach it)? I mean, it would be far more wholesome a relationship with god if you went to him of your own free will and volition, with a full understanding, rather than being brainwashed into it since birth (and yes, if you are being taught a belief from birth with no other viewpoint, you are being brainwashed).

C'jais
03-06-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
I mean, it would be far more wholesome a relationship with god if you went to him of your own free will and volition, with a full understanding, rather than being brainwashed into it since birth (and yes, if you are being taught a belief from birth with no other viewpoint, you are being brainwashed).

My sentiments exactly.

It would, however, see a decrease in Christians around the world, which is why they're taking no chances I guess.

Havoc Stryphe
03-06-2003, 02:38 PM
To get back to the original topic, Sex for pleasure within the confines of Holy Matrimony is not prohibited by the bible, and in fact, almost an entire Book of the bible is devoted to the love between a man and his wife, emotionally, spiritually, and physically.

Read the Song of Solomen, or Song of Songs in the Old Testament. Most of the book is written as a song/poem from King Solomen to his wife and her response to him. There are several sexual references in there. ;)

However, I will leave with that thought, because I refuse to place myself within the debate of Christianity vs Atheism, Authority of the Bible etc. You gentlemen seem to have intelligence enough to debate any situation, belief, theory, or idea as it pertains to religion or the lack thereof, but some of you seem to lack the personal restraint to do so without insulting one another. It's a shame really, because you all seem very bright, informed and quite opinionated. A group of people like yourselves could accomplish a great deal, if you could just debate on more civilized manner.

I wish you luck with your ongoing debates...

BigTeddyPaul
03-06-2003, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Paul, Lime-Light was calling Jedi Monk an idiot for so blatantly contradicting himself.

If Jedi monk is going to condemn people for their actions, he should at least be consistent about it. Otherwise, it does make him look like an idiot. (I wouldnt have been so harsh about it, but still...)

Ah. It ws 3:30 and I didn't click in my mind like that. Thanks.





quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul
And for that comment about sex isn't a sin because sins are irrelevant makes you a total idiot. I guess that means, according to your views, that nothing is a sin because they are all irrelevant whatever THEY are because they don't exist. If sins are so irrelevant than why religion?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sins are completely irrelevant. Sins exist in your head alone, as nothing has proved the positive existence of sins.

Why religion? Good question.

Since this thread is religious based (Bible) I used that as a source.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God encompasses all things and therefore we are forever indebted to God.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Prove that statement, if you want it to have any kind of relevance in this debate.

Otherwise, I'll skim quickly past any arguments based on this, just as I'll completely ignore someone who uses "souls" as an argument in abortion debates. It's irrelevant. Unless you can prove it.


Look at the whole statement. If you read it all you woud see that I said quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
OK, let's solve this "faith/fact controversy": Let someone use "the Christian way" to create something useful such as a nuclear power plant that doesn't blow itself up... If you can do that without science, then I will accept "the Christian way" to be the basis for school classes. Until you have done that, I hold Christianity to be useless, crappy, murderous BS. And unlike you, I'll have something called proof...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I can see where you are coming from. The Christian view to this would be that God made the people who discovered nuclear power. He also enlightened them to that technology. He also created nuclear power. Etc Etc Etc. God encompasses all things and therefore we are forever indebted to God.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communism actually really started in America mostly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ever heard of a guy called Karl Marx?
He is German.

There were some earlier forms of Communism based societies in the early Americas conquest.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do believe also that this country is no longer Christian.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Just because the majority of a population is religious, does not mean the country in itself is religious.

Touche.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe less than half of all people according to the last census marked Christianity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



By "Christian", do you mean Christians, or Protestants?

I mean Christian.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts: No where in the Bible does it state that you cannot have sex before you are married. NO WHERE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thank you.

Just as it doesn't say anywhere in the Koran that women have to put clothes on their hair.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So much for "Christian tolerance".

There are things in the Bible that Christians do not tolerate. Blasphemy is another. That is a fact. Homosexuality is a sin. There is no tolerance in religion for that because the person is living a lie over and over and over again with no intent on repenting. So you are right there is no tolerance for that. I am just stating a fact. As a human being I do not hold it against someone if they are gay but as a religious person I do.





BigTeddyPaul