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wedge2211
02-11-2003, 10:27 AM
I heard a while back about a possible co-op mod, but I don't remember what happened to it, or if any maps are made for it. I suppose that a co-op scenario would be easy enough to make with the SAGA gametype, but still, is anything like this still in the works? A GOOD cooperative scenario would be really fun, or perhaps a sort of counterstrike-esque mod. You know, a specific scenario with two teams having distinct objectives (Rebel Cell is attacked by Imps, Rebels have to defend the cell for x amount of time, Imps have to capture the cell before time runs out, or something like that).

Wudan
02-11-2003, 10:53 AM
I'm certainly not opposed to the idea - I think it would be pretty cool to play.

Could be done, but you wouldn't want 32 clients - more like 8-12.

No true Co-Op mods right now, but quite a few Saga mods.

Chandler
02-11-2003, 03:36 PM
I believe you're referring to the Wired Lamp Studios co-op conversion for Jedi Outcast. Yeah, that went under because of map entity limits. However, I am project leader for a current co-op mod for Jedi Outcast. Here's a short description:

Rebel Operations is a cooperative multiplayer modification for Jedi Outcast that puts players in the role of the elite special forces of the Empire or Alliance. As one of the many distinct characters, players utilize a variety of weapons and equipment to complete the impossible against all odds.

We're sort of a FPS/realism/RPG co-op mod that will probably support up to 6 players. Unfortunately we don't have a public release yet (need team members)...

Wudan
02-11-2003, 04:30 PM
Yeah, I remembered you guys shortly thereafter.

WLS wasn't thinking straight - they were making a mod to play regular SP JO maps instead of their own - nutz.

Nowadays, with Q3Map2, the model problem shouldn't really be a problem. I don't think that the models are necessarily 'entities' anymore, I'd have to check with ydnar.

Anyway, yeah, I think co-op is a good idea.

Chandler
02-11-2003, 04:47 PM
Hmm, that's interesting... We haven't exactly started mapping yet, but if we didn't have to deal with that, it would be a huge relief. If you find out, can you PM me or post it or something?

recombinant
02-12-2003, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by Chandler
Hmm, that's interesting... We haven't exactly started mapping yet, but if we didn't have to deal with that, it would be a huge relief. If you find out, can you PM me or post it or something?

WLS tanked because the SP maps exceeded the model limits of the MP engine, so if you want to do a Co-op based game you're going to have to create the maps from scratch.

You still have to keep track of the limits. Dark Forces is currently working with the WLS code, taking off where they stopped. Our goal is completely different however, so I'm hoping we can get our SP-style maps to work in the long run (without having to resort to breaking up the map and doing a bunch of state saving in between the sections).

You just have to be smart about keeping track of your model and entity limits when working with the MP codebase. MilesTeg is working on defining exactly what those limits are for our team.

I love the idea of a co-op mission-based game so I hope Rebel Operations succeeds! I'm looking forward to playing it! :)

HTH.

Chandler
02-12-2003, 09:53 AM
Yes, I know that (or knew that rather, if he gets confirmation). I was responding to this:

Originally posted by wudan
Nowadays, with Q3Map2, the model problem shouldn't really be a problem. I don't think that the models are necessarily 'entities' anymore, I'd have to check with ydnar.

Wudan
02-12-2003, 11:09 AM
I have queried the Q3Map2 Forum at SplashDamage - soon we shall know ...

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4198#4198

Chandler
02-12-2003, 11:33 AM
Alright, thanks.

Wudan
02-12-2003, 07:58 PM
Go check the reply - pretty awesome, I'd say!

Now let's get some SLICK Star Wars models up in this house, yo!

RenegadeOfPhunk
02-13-2003, 07:16 AM
Hey Guys,

If anybody remembers the mod which I was leading a few months back (Star Wars : Team Assault), you'll know that our plans were very near to what was described by wedge2211 at the top of this thread. (A CS-inspired team-play objective based mod). We actually planned to take things a lot further with the inclusion of classes, XP progression etc.
The original Jetpack demo was created by our team - as a feature of the Mandalorian class...

However, the original team has broken up for one reason or another, and I kind of left the modding scene for a while.
But just recently I decided I'd have a go and see how much I could get done on my own. And I think I'm getting somewhere!

I don't wanna give too much away at this stage (I've learnt my lessons from doing too much of that :) ), but suffice it to say that as I was testing my latest changes last night, I got much closer to feeling like I was in an action sequence from the SW movies than I ever have since I started playing JKII. :D

Anyway - I think I could be close to releasing a (very) early gameplay demo. I may be looking to build up a proper team again at some point, but I want to get the basic code changes done first - so that the finish line for the mod is clearly in sight when I start getting people on board. (Which will make it FAR more likely that it will actually get finished!!)

What I COULD use help with NOW - if anybody's up for it - is changing the menu, so that I can release this early game demo. You definetly need to be able to do artwork, and ideally be able to code the menu systems as well.

If your interested, email me at renegadeofphunk@3dactionplanet.com

P.S. Hey Chandler. Good to hear your still rockin' :)

Chandler
02-13-2003, 04:39 PM
Hmm, that's just for miscellaneous models though isn't it, like background stuff?

Hey it's Renegade! Glad to see you're still on the scene. Looking forward to playing your demo ;). And, yeah, I've been around for almost two years... can't give up now :cool:.

Wudan
02-13-2003, 06:49 PM
Um ... the misc_models was what WLS was having a problem with - what models are you having issue with?

Chandler
02-13-2003, 07:29 PM
Does that include like NPCs and such? My lead coder told me it doesn't...

Wudan
02-14-2003, 01:47 AM
No, it doesn't. misc_models are 'static' models - like x-wings and such. You can't have more than 32 players on a team, and you probably aren't going to have more than 32 or so different kinds of enemies, so I don't think you'll be breaking any model limits. You might break entity limits (1024 at any given time, if I am correct) during gameplay, if you let the group get too spread out and try to have them fight ... say ... 150 or so stormtroopers with imperial repeaters ...

Just keep it in mind during beta testing.

UniKorn
02-14-2003, 06:19 AM
To make it clear, (I'm not going to say once and for all, cause these threads keep coming back :) ) we wanted to create co-op as a sideproject to allow you to play the Jedi Knight 2 maps in co-op. Since we already had a codebase from Elite Force we swapped it to Jedi Knight 2 and adjusted it. As soon as we started to see problems with the mp.exe that doesn't support as many mapmodels we abandonned and released the code.

The co-op was never our "main project", it was just a sideproject that we could give to 1 coder who could focus on that. Therefor we never finished coop since we did not want to spend the resources on creating maps to make the coop work.

It is true that the new q3map2 handles compiling differently, but that still doesn't help us at all since I don't think Raven will recompile all their single player maps. It does help the mod teams out there who will have less limits (although I do suggest you check it out first to see if it actually works (not that I don't have faith in Ydnar, but we don't know what other stuff the jk2mp.exe checks). I do hope that one day the coop does see the light, maybe not for jk2 sp but for other mods out there.

It wasn't nutz what we tried to achieve, it just wasn't meant to be. For those who are still interested in what we are doing (not with JK2 though) go to

http://www.planetunreal.com/darkhorizons

Regards,
UniKorn

Chandler
02-14-2003, 09:39 AM
Alright, thanks, everyone. I guess I was just misinformed from my coder. He kept saying the entity limit was like 300 or something. I think we can deal with this though... Otherwise loading is always a possibility (such as in NOLF2), if it can be implemented into Jedi Outcast effectively that is.

Wudan
02-14-2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by UniKorn
To make it clear, (I'm not going to say once and for all, cause these threads keep coming back :) ) we wanted to create co-op as a sideproject to allow you to play the Jedi Knight 2 maps in co-op. Since we already had a codebase from Elite Force we swapped it to Jedi Knight 2 and adjusted it. As soon as we started to see problems with the mp.exe that doesn't support as many mapmodels we abandonned and released the code.

The co-op was never our "main project", it was just a sideproject that we could give to 1 coder who could focus on that. Therefor we never finished coop since we did not want to spend the resources on creating maps to make the coop work.

It is true that the new q3map2 handles compiling differently, but that still doesn't help us at all since I don't think Raven will recompile all their single player maps. It does help the mod teams out there who will have less limits (although I do suggest you check it out first to see if it actually works (not that I don't have faith in Ydnar, but we don't know what other stuff the jk2mp.exe checks). I do hope that one day the coop does see the light, maybe not for jk2 sp but for other mods out there.

It wasn't nutz what we tried to achieve, it just wasn't meant to be. For those who are still interested in what we are doing (not with JK2 though) go to

http://www.planetunreal.com/darkhorizons

Regards,
UniKorn

You are correct, Raven won't be recompiling their maps - but maybe we could have done some nifty function to free all misc_models after 250 and see how that works out ... drawing forcefields for every one of the models that would have 'dissappearred' or something.

I know exactly what you mean, though. I'm not too troubled by it because it would have been a very long road to complete the Co-op project - ICARUS would have to be added to MP, enemy AI needs to be added, et cetera.

Shortcuts can be taken, but it won't be the same as SP, anyway.

Chandler
02-14-2003, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I wish we had the SP source... it'd make things a lot easier. Perhaps they'll release it after the expansion (assuming they're making one).

UniKorn
02-14-2003, 11:17 AM
We tried to "not draw" certain models, but it would **** up the maps and some models were needed for the story...