HELP! Framerate Optimizing issues.

[DigitalVapor]

Ok I have finaly gotten my enormous Palace map built, and lit in a satisfactory manner but now the matter is framerate. My framerates are abysmal and I have a fairly high end system.

1.2 ghz AMD Duron.
384 MB Ram
Xtasy GeForce 4 MX 420 Graphics Card

Now before you start in about detail and structural brushes, and area portals allow me to explain the situation.

Due to the size and complexity of the map, The fact that it features both A VERY large Palace, and a VERY large surrounding courtyard with a moat so deap that if you swim to the bottom, you will drown just as you reach it. and the way the palace itself is designed, Structural brushes are an absolute NO NO for anything but the skybox. The map has been caulked as best as is possible. The reason I cant use structural brushes is because of the highly detailed way the map is built. Even with just making the main walls structural it creates enough splits in the map to make compiling nearly impossible, and on top of it the splits would be useless since even if I made use of structural brushes and area portals, the fact that the palace has many windows completely cancels them out.

So as thesituation stans now, I need to find a new method of preventing the engine from drawing things that cant be seen as of yet, WITHOUT causing too many splits.

I have already adjusted the BlockSize so there are no Default Splits running through any part of the map.

I am beginning to think that perhaps I should simply start making use of hint brushes to force more logical splits in the map, since the palace's design prohibits any of its walls or other parts being used to block vis. OH and BTW, For some reason, r_showtris is not working at all!

Would anyone like to help me do this? Make it a joint project even? If the map is properly optimized, It could make for a popular download. If your interested, let me know right here, and I will put together the neccesary items to send over. (ie MAP and BSP files, Texture and shader files (already in a pk3) And some basic info

[master_thomas]

I think it's the water. Water and fog can cause framerate issues. I think that could be contributing to a framerate problem. Try reducing the water so you die as you come up, or if it still is too much, make a slow trigger hurt with a low setting and try making it even more shallow. I am still kind of new at JO editing (a month) so I'm not definite, but this should work.

I have no idea on r_showtris

[wedge2211]

Your low frame rates are most likely due to the fact that your level is, as far as the VIS process is concerned, one huge box of epic proportions (I've always wanted to say that...:)). I didn't think there was any maximum restriction on the number of leaf nodes, though I could be wrong. If there IS a max, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's some way to edit the numbers...and I'm also rather surprised that even if you leave only your structural walls as struct brushes, you hit this max. You must have filled the whole damn workspace with this map. I would make the following suggestions:

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Make at least SOME of the walls structural. Aim for the largest walls, that will block off the most space. Even if there are windows in it, it will still prevent SOME surfaces from being drawn.
You must have huge windows every few grid units to make struct brushes useless...try shrinking/deleting some of the windows. You probably won't lose much, and what you do lose I'm sure will be a favorable trade for increased FPS.
You might try deleting some of the smaller, less noticeable detail brushes or some smaller misc_models.
Make sure unseen surfaces are caulked.
As thomas suggested, shrink the moat. If it kills you when you get to the bottom, why would anyone go to the bottom anyways? Cut it in half, and if you go to the bottom, you'll still die before you get back.
I know you said don't say this...but make sure your areaportals are placed well.
Try hint brushes. However, keep in mind that the game will draw all tris in all nodes visible from any given node. so you will still need struct brushes to prevent those surfaces from being drawn...otherwise, you will simply have more splits, but the same amount of stuff visible.
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Hope that helps. Anyone else, please feel free to correct me if I made a mistake, I'm not an expert on the details of compiling.

[Khaza]

I suggest using basic structural walls too, since they are the best way to block visibility... that r_showtris works only in single player game (using "devmap" developer mode). Don't worry about compiling map for SP since it can play your map without changing anything, but it still needs info_player_start. Also try to avoid using too many patches around when you could get same effect using normal brushes.

[Leslie Judge]

Yeah, wedge is right. Using only hint brushes isn't enough. I don't remember if this is in that tutorial I recommended to read, but I tell it anyway. :)

Leaf nodes doesn't contain any structural brushes. This means, that sturctural brushes are special for VIS. If you just put in hint brushes to split up your one big leaf node into two or more, the engine has to draw still everything. Remeber: VIS determines what leaf node is visible from what leaf node. But hint brushes will create leaf nodes touching each other, so every leaf node will be visible from every other leaf node. Not good.

And you can't make the same effect with hint brushes what you can make with structural brushes I think, because not the size of the hint textured surface what matters but the plane where it is.

Hint brushes don't create new leaf nodes, just split the existing ones. So at least try to leave the floor / ceiling of the rooms and the walls between the rooms structural to enable VIS to create leaf nodes which don't touch each other. For your windows leave the wall parts between them as sturctural brushes.

This way, the open area will remain only one big leaf node which will be drawn etirely if you are in a room which has a window to this open area, but at least the othher rooms will not be drawn.

One more thing: areaportals are useless without structural brushes.

[DigitalVapor]

Leslie, You seem to be the most adept and finding the problems I am having. I think it would be easiest if I sent you a copy of the map file and textures and you can take a look and determine then what could be done to help improve framerate while keeping compile times relatively short

[Leslie Judge]

It would be the easiest for you. But for me? :D

I think it's better for you if you play with these things yourself, so you can learn some tricks and share them with the community.

Of course if you can't figure out anything I'll try to help as anyone else does here.