PDA

View Full Version : higher wages for teachers


greedo626
02-26-2003, 08:09 AM
should teachers get higher wages? my aunt is a teacher and all the other teachers she knows make less than $35,000 a year. I think we need more teachers but there needs to be more of an incentive to become one.

El Sitherino
02-26-2003, 08:17 AM
i agree but also you know the people who really do it for the kids by them not getting much but i agree with you.

SkinWalker
02-26-2003, 10:29 AM
Teachers are professions and should get paid a professional's wage.

The problem I see with teachers in school districts like the one in Dallas, is that the really talented teachers have more control over their destinies. If a teacher is good, I mean really good, at what they do, he or she needs only say, "I can't work here anymore... unless I get transfered to a better school, I'm going to have to move to another school district."

If you look at schools in the Dallas Independent School District, you'll notice that there are talented teachers in even the worst schools, but by and large, the best schools have the best teachers. The schools where violence, drugs, and truancy are at the highest rates have the least talented teachers.

Professional wages would help with this. High wages with contract to work in particular position for a set period of time.

SkinWalker

Luc Solar
02-26-2003, 11:07 AM
Their wages are just fine here in Finland. :)

(trying to point out the fact that the USA is not the only country in the world)

In Finland people with 0 skill and no education earn ridiculous amounts of money simply because they belong to certain unions.

I hate the fact that some idiot working in a paper factory earns twice as much as I do.
Their job description is something like: "keep an eye on this monitor. If it starts flashing red, (which is something that might happen once every two weeks) you need to push the green button here."

You need no education. No skill. The job demands nothing. Yet you get payed as much as a doctor! It's sick. :mad:

Lime-Light
02-26-2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
The schools where violence, drugs, and truancy are at the highest rates have the least talented teachers.

Professional wages would help with this. High wages with contract to work in particular position for a set period of time.


but better schools will still pay better. You'll get higher wages in general, but the pattern will be the same. Maybe there should be worker's comp for teaching at hazardous schools.

ShockV1.89
02-26-2003, 11:14 AM
As a teacher in training and part time teaching assistant, I'd have to give a resounding YES on this one. :D ;)

But seriously, yes, teachers should get more money than they do. You cant imagine the amount of work we can get saddled with. People like to think "Oh, they work a 6 hour day and go home." Wrong. We work an 8 hour day (we dont go home when the kiddies do), and then spend 3 or 4 hours grading papers or writing lesson plans. Then we might have to get up early in the morning and go in before any of the kids to make copies, submit lesson plans, talk to guidance counselers about certain students... oof, it's not an easy job. And keep in mind that every single year, we end up with different kids, so we have to continuously adapt.

Teachers in this area make an average of around $40,000. Thats not enough, in my opinion. $45,000, at least.

The benefits and vacation perks are nice, though. ;)

SkinWalker
02-26-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Lime-Light
but better schools will still pay better.

Actually, as it is now, teachers make the same in the entire district without regard to what school they are at. They have a pay-scale based upon tenure.

El Sitherino
02-26-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
(trying to point out the fact that the USA is not the only country in the world)
yeah but we seem to be a one of the really screwed up ones, aye?:D :p :p

Reborn Outcast
02-26-2003, 02:41 PM
Ok in the US ( :D ) the teachers NEED HIGHER WAGES. Its insane how low they get paid to teach the future leaders and actual future of America. My English teacher has 3 degrees and he has a wife, 1 daughter and his wife is expecting twins... and hes supposed to live off a $40,000 wage.... Grr that makes me mad.

greedo626
02-26-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
You cant imagine the amount of work we can get saddled with. People like to think "Oh, they work a 6 hour day and go home." Wrong. We work an 8 hour day (we dont go home when the kiddies do), and then spend 3 or 4 hours grading papers or writing lesson plans. Then we might have to get up early in the morning and go in before any of the kids to make copies, submit lesson plans, talk to guidance counselers about certain students...

this is a good point. many people (not all, but some) think that teachers get to work just before the kids get there and then leave when the kids do. which is not true (of course). my aunt gets to work at 6:00 AM and doesn't leave until 6 or 7 PM. plus she has to work over the weekend grading papers and preparing for class on monday. teachers have hard jobs and are deserving of a good pay.

munik
02-26-2003, 10:31 PM
Wow. Does anyone here not have a silver spoon in their mouth?

$30,000-$40,000 a year state jobs. Yeah, that sure must suck :rolleyes:

You know how many days off a year teachers get? Do you know how many paid holidays they recieve? Do you know what kind of benefits, like health insurance, pensions, etc. they recieve?

My wife aspires to be a teacher, for those things alone. And ya'll think that's bad :confused:
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
My English teacher has 3 degrees and he has a wife, 1 daughter and his wife is expecting twins... and hes supposed to live off a $40,000 wageDude, I don't make near that much, yet I have a wife, 1 daughter, and gonna go for a second child soon. I live just fine. With money to spare.

FunClown
02-27-2003, 07:44 AM
I think teachers shouldn't get higher wages.

They aren't professional. They think they are so good and upstanding citizens, they work six hours a day, if that and get huge holiday breaks.

I've known very few teachers who I respect. Its unfortunate but higher wages would only bring more scum into that profession.

Bottom line, if they want to earn a professionals wage, I suggest they start becoming professional. Teachers are going on strike and causing havoc in my state. They even held a meeting during school hours. Why would they want to disrupt students educations. We all know whats more important.

Luc Solar, I suggest you go get a job at a paper factory.
Instead of earning a crappy doctors wage.

Luc Solar
02-27-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by FunClown
Luc Solar, I suggest you go get a job at a paper factory.
Instead of earning a crappy doctors wage.

No thanks. I'll rather earn my lousy bank employee-wage even though I'm grossly overcompetent being practically a lawyer. Makes me appreciate every dime I get... ;)

But if I start my own business some day, I know who I'll go after...those darn factory workers with their fat wallets will learn to fear me! Mwahahahahaa! :D

ShockV1.89
02-27-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by FunClown
I think teachers shouldn't get higher wages.

They aren't professional. They think they are so good and upstanding citizens, they work six hours a day, if that and get huge holiday breaks.

I've known very few teachers who I respect. Its unfortunate but higher wages would only bring more scum into that profession.

Bottom line, if they want to earn a professionals wage, I suggest they start becoming professional. Teachers are going on strike and causing havoc in my state. They even held a meeting during school hours. Why would they want to disrupt students educations. We all know whats more important.

Luc Solar, I suggest you go get a job at a paper factory.
Instead of earning a crappy doctors wage.

I guess you didnt read what I said before... we work a hell of a lot more than six hours a day. We get holiday breaks, yes, but we spend much of that grading papers and preparing lesson plans as well. And often we're asked to teach summer school.

Teachers go on strike usually because the board of ed trys to make them work without a contract. This is unacceptable in any job, and usually isnt a problem, except boards of education like to try it. They probably held a meeting during school hours because that was the only time when everyone was in one place at one time, they're too busy otherwise.

Reborn Outcast
02-27-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by FunClown
I think teachers shouldn't get higher wages.

They aren't professional. They think they are so good and upstanding citizens, they work six hours a day, if that and get huge holiday breaks.

I've known very few teachers who I respect. Its unfortunate but higher wages would only bring more scum into that profession.

Bottom line, if they want to earn a professionals wage, I suggest they start becoming professional. Teachers are going on strike and causing havoc in my state. They even held a meeting during school hours. Why would they want to disrupt students educations. We all know whats more important.

Yea and did you know that in many work areas give 3 weeks of vaca? Teachers only get around 1 month during summer because of summer school and they have to prepare for hte arriving students to their classes. LOL teachers are the reason that there are countries and business people all over the world. Who would have taught them? Teachers deserve higher wages.

munik
02-28-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Yea and did you know that in many work areas give 3 weeks of vaca?
Maybe, after working for 20 years or more for a company. I'm not knocking teachers or anything, but they do get some decent time off. I'm pretty sure that students attend school around half a year, and even though teachers work more days then children are at school, that still is a substantial amount of time off a year. I know I get 104 days off a year, plus 10 days vacation. I'm willing to bet that teachers get at least 30 more days off then me. That's alot.

FunClown
02-28-2003, 08:57 AM
Teachers don't do summer school in my country. They get an 8 week summer break, 1 week Easter, 2 weeks June/July, 2 Weeks September. This does not include student free days where they do not teach and students do not attend school. They are expected to prepare classes during this time.

That comes to 13 weeks holiday a year. Coupled with getting to school at 8:30am and leaving at 3am, though you do see them leaving earlier. In that they get a 15 minute break and a 45 minute break plus one period per day free which is a further 45 minute break. So that 1 3/4 hours per day where they aren't teaching. Unless they happen to be on playground duty.


Teachers do have to prepare classes and mark stuff, but they do this in their own time and are usually very slow with marking which I attribute to laziness.

Maybe things work a little different in the US?

But in Australia, I can't see why they expect more than AUS$50,000, which is upper middle class. Its US$30,000 BTW

EDIT: Don't forget, teacher don't work Saturdays and Sundays either.

ShadowTemplar
03-12-2003, 02:27 PM
Ookey...

To those of you who state that teachers have a lot of free time:

Consider an English paper. Simple. Easy. Quick. Not for the teacher. He has to go through 28 crappy English papers and virtually rewrite half of them just to get the syntax right.

With Math it gets even better: Worstcase scenario you risk having papers drop in over the course of half a month or so (a whole month if your boss demands that you look at every paper, even those that are grossly over deadline (which by the way isn't even a deadline in Denmark, as you can push it for at least a week if you want to... Deadline should mean deadline, IMO)).

Now with Math or Physics you don't have to rewrite half of them... You have to rewrite almost 3/4ths of them.

Actually if you sum up the workload of a Danish teacher, you'll find that he is not terribly well paid. And that's assuming that he only does what he's being paid for, but the whole system is designed in such a way that if you don't do a little (a lot) extra, you become pariah.

It's mainly this way because the Danish teachers have such crappy labor unions. Those unions should stop trying to be political organisations and start being unions.

Breton
03-12-2003, 02:59 PM
There are some good teachers, but also a good deal of bad ones. I belibe teachers should get more education, and there should also be higher demands to be allowed to study in the first place. It's very important that the teachers are good. And then we might talk about higher payment.

ShadowTemplar
03-12-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
There are some good teachers, but also a good deal of bad ones. I belibe teachers should get more education, and there should also be higher demands to be allowed to study in the first place. It's very important that the teachers are good. And then we might talk about higher payment.

Yes. That's true too. But I think that the root of the problem, at least in Denmark, is not so much the level of education, as the content of the education... I have a distinct feeling that there is some serious lack of research in that community. Methinks that if a Physicist applied even the laxest of his standards to the 'research' projects used to document most of the modern methods of teaching, he would find the 'results' to be fairly useless, due to crappy and lacking documentation.

XWING5
03-28-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by munik
$30,000-$40,000 a year state jobs. Yeah, that sure must suck :rolleyes:

I worked in a theatre in Milwaukee 6 days a week 9am - Midnight and made 9,000 the entire year. Talk about nothing! I was a Stage Manager in a Pro Theatre and got paid practically nothing. I have been a teacher (sub) and I have helped teachers out before - and their profession is indeed a noble one- but the work that is done is nothing compared to what was done backstage at a theatre. I add that only to say that you can't judge paycheck by hours involved.
Of course teachers are molding young minds, but to be honest, the training for teachers is not as stringent or selective. You can be a great teacher or be worthless - for the most part, you will still get paid the same amount and will still have the same influence, good or bad, over the students. Until the standards are raised to become a teacher, the salaries will not go up. I have a Bachelors in Fine Arts with NO study done in Education, yet I am allowed to teach. Not that I think I would be a bad teacher, but it is just too easy to get the position to make it a high paying job. If it was a wealthy profession, all kinds of jerks would be lining up to do it with minimal training.
Basically what I am saying is that teachers SHOULD get more, but FIRST the standards to become a teacher should be raised. Keep the good teachers teaching and the dirtbags away.

Eldritch
03-28-2003, 09:58 PM
Since I selected other, I'm presenting my unique 3rd option.

I think that teacher salaries should be competetive and reviewed often. Better teachers would be awarded better wages. How's that for an incentive to become a [good] teacher?

XWING5
03-28-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Aru-Wen
Since I selected other, I'm presenting my unique 3rd option.

I think that teacher salaries should be competetive and reviewed often. Better teachers would be awarded better wages. How's that for an incentive to become a [good] teacher?

I think it would be great. It's just a matter of them doing it and how. I have been lucky and had some outstanding teachers who should be rewarded. It's just weeding out the bad ones, you know?

El Sitherino
03-28-2003, 10:36 PM
well how would you tell the good from the bad? what if it's just the student learns slowly or doesnt care? are you going to punish the teacher because the kids an ass? I think that woudl be mean. And if you put a monitor in the class you would have to pay them and what if they have a personal grudge against the teacher and decide to say they are "bad"? I like the way you think but like all these "perfect" solutions there is always at least one flaw in the theory. also say you got it to where there were no grudges and there were no "problem" students how would you decide what the best pay is and the better wage well how do you tell what they deserve? sorry to ruin your theory, nothing personal but I put up a theory and people shoot it down. but eh oh well.

munik
03-28-2003, 11:04 PM
Here's a proposal for teachers wages. Every so often, say a couple of months, a raise is offered. Now, the only way to get the raise is to enter the Thunderdome with another teacher who desires the raise as well. The teacher that leaves the Thunderdome gets the raise. It's as simple as that.

Two teachers enter, one teacher leaves!

El Sitherino
03-28-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by munik
Here's a proposal for teachers wages. Every so often, say a couple of months, a raise is offered. Now, the only way to get the raise is to enter the Thunderdome with another teacher who desires the raise as well. The teacher that leaves the Thunderdome gets the raise. It's as simple as that.

Two teachers enter, one teacher leaves! and we could sell tickets to the students to give to the teacher ;P so does the one teahcer kill the other or do they just knock them out?