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wedge2211
02-26-2003, 04:24 PM
A bit of an experiment for me...still in the planning stages. I call it "Tal Erulanei."

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/erulanei.jpg

[EDIT: This is a sort of "concept" map...I won't be making it compile-able for a little while yet.]

Altus_Thrawn
02-26-2003, 05:26 PM
All I have to say is...cool, but that framerate looks evil!

Kengo
02-26-2003, 05:34 PM
Hey, just like every good band should attempt at least one concept album, every good mapper should try at least one concept map. It sure looks...conceptual :) Really original, and it could be a totally unique experience to play, but for sure - will be a challenge to build!

Leslie Judge
02-26-2003, 06:03 PM
You definetely have to make it. :D

I don't worry about the framerates, there are not too many patches yet and this will not be like one big room. Smart placement of the sorrounding structural brushes can help a lot.

wedge2211
02-26-2003, 11:48 PM
So I threw a box around it and compiled just for grins. The results are on my site, including the brand-spanking-new skybox I *just* made.

For some bizarre reason (maybe there *IS* a mapping god) my FPS read 90-ish. Even with all those patches. Anyways, I have some ideas on how to squeeze struct brushes in and split the total visible exterior area up into little chunks, I think I'll just see what happens.

Whoever designed the Etherian level in Elite Force must have gone to hell and back. Several times.

:cool:

wedge2211
02-26-2003, 11:55 PM
Actually, would anybody know of any green / blue / blue-green / brown "organic" looking textures?

Eldritch
02-27-2003, 12:15 AM
Here's two good sites for textures, the first of which actually has a downloadable program to make your own textures with:

http://www.i-tex.de/gallery.htm
http://textures.forrest.cz/

Kengo
02-27-2003, 10:18 AM
You ever played System Shock 2? The idea sounds a little bit like 'the many' level at the end, with organic type textures. Sounding good :)

wedge2211
02-27-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Aru-Wen
Here's two good sites for textures, the first of which actually has a downloadable program to make your own textures with:

http://www.i-tex.de/gallery.htm
http://textures.forrest.cz/

Sweeeeeeet, Aru. Thanks!

Eldritch
02-27-2003, 04:23 PM
Yep. I do what I can. :D

Wes Marrakesh
02-27-2003, 08:21 PM
Awesome map :D

How'd you make the sky?

Altus_Thrawn
02-27-2003, 08:27 PM
I was wondering the same thing, how do you make a sky?

BTW, enjoying your credits Wes?

Wes Marrakesh
02-27-2003, 10:27 PM
I will when I hit 300 :p

wedge2211
02-27-2003, 11:48 PM
I used TerraGen (http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/). It renders landscapes, water levels, and skies, all put together. Do a forum search for "terragen tutorial" and it'll come up with some instructions (or...I could write a tut on my site...)

Altus_Thrawn
03-01-2003, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the link Wedge, custom skies in my maps would be a good thing.

boinga1
03-01-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by wedge2211
http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/erulanei.jpg

wow...that's pretty INSANE

Emon
03-02-2003, 06:01 PM
Way too many polys. Using patchmeta in the BSP phase should clean those up, but you still will have more than you will be able to notice.

wedge2211
03-02-2003, 11:41 PM
Behold! Tal Erulanei!

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0130.jpg
http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0131.jpg
(Small description of the shots: the textures themselves will be used in the final version, but they are by no means aligned properly, I'll especially have to stretch out the glass texture. The glass, by the way, is tinted green...cool effect, huh?)

I'm pushing ahead anyways...I plan to make the whole level, and if the frame rates are hellish, then I'll just cut it up and make it into a smaller duel map. I've figured out a few patches on the exterior that can never be seen, and deleted them, I also built it such that the only windows are those tubes, and so I can plop a struct brush right down the middle of the map. Interior rooms will be surrounded by structural brushes, and there are doors into each of the tubes, so the only areas where frame rates might be problematic is in the tubes themselves.

Wes Marrakesh
03-02-2003, 11:56 PM
:jawdrop:






That is one kick-ass map. 'nuff said.

BTW Thanks for TerraGen link.

Shadriss
03-04-2003, 06:55 AM
Wedge, if you DO manage to pull this off, I think it will be the first of it's kind. VERY interesting looking... No we just need an "Alien" player model for it... that thing SCREAMS Alien to me.

wedge2211
03-04-2003, 03:46 PM
All righty, some interior shots:

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0132.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0135.jpg

I just finished toying with shaders to make some glowy phosphorescent stuff. Nifty!

Pnut_Man
03-04-2003, 04:13 PM
Vongish enough for me (now it will make sense when I kill yuuzhan vong, that means you better add bot support :P)! Very very nice job Wedge, seems you pulled it off ;)

Eldritch
03-04-2003, 04:25 PM
Sweet!

Looks like someone really took that 'curves' comment to heart... :D

Leslie Judge
03-04-2003, 04:54 PM
Yeah. :) From now there are no excuses, you have to be in the IRG group. :)

As I can see you like curves as much as I do. :) The map is looking very good. You would need some insect like creature in it. :)

Wudan
03-04-2003, 05:06 PM
Replace the glass with a glass shader/tex that doesn't make most people want to vomit. Could be better.

Right now it's mostly just patch abuse.

wedge2211
03-04-2003, 08:08 PM
Haha, pnut, have fun with with the Vong! Of course there will be bot support!

Aru and Leslie: thanks a lot...I have to say I actually thought of this independently from my bid to join IRG, but hey, it certainly doesn't hurt. :)

Wudan: Right now, yes, it's just the bare outlines. Abuse, yeah, but it's fun! As for the vomit...is this better...?

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0137.jpg

starunner
03-04-2003, 10:21 PM
I think it looks great! Could be something out of Half-Life 2... It's certainly unique. :D My only worry would be about the size those walkways, which might get a little cramped with too many players? I'm probably wrong. Looking forward to the release!

The Truthful Liar
03-04-2003, 11:41 PM
Looks like a good, start? o.O

wedge2211
03-06-2003, 10:58 AM
Hey, SR, haven't seen you around in a while! The exterior tubes are about big enough for 3 to walk abreast. But if anyone gets in your way, just vaporize 'em. :cool:

I'm not very far into the map, only finished the architecture for about 2 rooms and a corridor, and the map lighting scheme changes with practically every compile. Ah, trial and error...

I'm looking for fitting music for this environment, I haven't had too much luck finding something appropriate for both a big green organic thing AND JKII battles at the same time. I tried some music from Myst: Exile, and it fits the "organic" theme, but not so great for battles. Ditto for WarCraft III Night Elf music. I thought the StarCraft Zerg music might be useful, but I've had a hard time getting my hands on it. Does anybody have any suggestions?

Leslie Judge
03-06-2003, 05:06 PM
Wedge, I made a quick search and found 5-7 zerg music. I will let my comp to download them then I refer to you.

wedge2211
03-07-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Leslie Judge
Wedge, I made a quick search and found 5-7 zerg music. I will let my comp to download them then I refer to you.

Thanks a bunch. My college puts bandwidth restrictions in place that make Kazaa totally unusable.

One question for anybody out there-- I have caulk struct brushes surrounding the interior rooms and corridors, to create leaf nodes for each room. But now to keep the engine from actually drawing all the other rooms (since caulk is transparent), would I have to texture the inward-facing sides of each of these caulk brushes?

wedge2211
03-11-2003, 03:58 PM
What do you all think of this (http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/Files/Edanna.mp3) for background music? (I might cut out the first part, until about 1:15)

[PS, if you're wondering, yes I'm still working on this map, I jsut had to go beat WarCraft III because it's so awesome. Now that's done, I'll just be spending all my time making Tal Erulanei...I'm working on all the twisty interior corridors now.]

Eldritch
03-11-2003, 05:23 PM
I wouldn't cut any of it. I love the music, and the first 1:15 builds up the tension of the piece. Plus, without that first 1:15, it might repeat to much and become annoying when playing a longer game.

wedge2211
03-17-2003, 04:08 PM
I just feel the need to make it clear that I'm NOT dead, I just have a big school cruch until spring break--and some serious mapping--starts next week. I actually have all the interior rooms laid out, but most of the interior is twisty corridors that I have barely begun. In the meantime, does anyone else have an opinion on the music?

wedge2211
03-19-2003, 12:18 AM
I should either be asleep or busting my ass over an english paper and a physics lab report right now, but NO, somehow I find the time to complete the eastern tube system on the a'Tal. Dedication? Nah. Just plain old stupidity.

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0145.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0149.jpg
If you look at the Radiant "map," it should be pretty easy to figure out where these shots were taken from.

I haven't quite finalized how to put the "veins" in on this junction here.
http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0147.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0146.jpg

Note that this side of the a'Tal is invisible from the other side, you also can't see the other tube from this side. That should help with frame rates a bit. This now completes the totaly visible exterior of the thing, all the rest will be interior.

ioshee
03-19-2003, 04:23 PM
I get excited tinglies all over when I look at those screenies.

I cant wait for this map *wipes drool off face*

Maybe its the music Im listening to while Im typing this (Emiliana Torrini) but I keep thinking of the music from Metroid Prime for your map (or something like it.) It has just the right touch of eerie mood with an exploration-of-an-organic-environment sort of feel to it.

wedge2211
03-19-2003, 04:27 PM
hmmmmm, do you have a link to that music? I might be able to use it. I want exactly that sort of feel for the background music in this map (scroll up a few posts to find the link to the music I'm using now, check it out). The only Emiliana Torrini I've heard so far, though, is "Gollum's Song..."

ioshee
03-20-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by wedge2211
... The only Emiliana Torrini I've heard so far, though, is "Gollum's Song..."

That's not a very good representation of her style. But I was referring to her music and not her voice (although I LOVE her voice I don't think it would be cool to have understandable lyrics in your map music.)

I have a better idea. There is this other Icelandic band (Torrini is Icelandic despite her last name) that has similar music but a lot of their stuff is instrumental. Their name is Gus Gus. I'll upload something tonight and post a link here.

But remember, it's just a suggestion. I won't feel bad in the least if you decide it's not right for your map:)

wedge2211
03-20-2003, 10:26 AM
I'm looking for suggestions! Thanks in advance for whatever you have to offer, and I'll be sure to let you know if I use it.

Leslie Judge
03-20-2003, 04:04 PM
BTW: I could download some zerg music but they are very bad. Not what I think you are looking for. :)

wedge2211
03-20-2003, 05:50 PM
I've heard some, and I agree. Right now I'm happy with the Myst music.

Hekx
03-21-2003, 01:08 PM
Reminds me of the game 'RollCage' due to the twisting and turning courses. Looks incredible. :)

DarkLord60
03-21-2003, 06:09 PM
The name reminds me of Morrowind

master_thomas
03-21-2003, 10:53 PM
Actually, the whole thing in my opinion gives a feeling of starcraft, which I have played recently, though I only have the original and brood war, the expansion. Tal Erulanei sounds like something from the Protoss' language, somewhat like "Adun Toridas", the two are little alike, but they have a similar "feel" to them. The thing sort of has a zerg theme (though far more attractive).

Leslie, I don't know what the Zerg music you have sounds like, but it would fit if Wedge were to texture is so people would want to vomit. This would include purple and red splattered on walls (creep and blood)(new textures), orange instead of green(original Zerg coloring), weird bubbles of flesh(spores and unearthly things), tentacles coming from walls, maybe an alpha shader of purple ooze and new purple liquids(the creep). Most who have played the original StarCraft should know what I'm talking about. Great Zerg colony if just the textures and Skybox were changed with some pools of creep and the bubbles (spores) and to make it look like a planet covered in ash and magma instead of a body of water on a temperate planet. Not a request, but a thought for most of the architecture fits "Zerg" to me.

Wedge, excellent! This could be the first map to have the only visible solids be patches.

wedge2211
03-22-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by master_thomas
Actually, the whole thing in my opinion gives a feeling of starcraft, which I have played recently, though I only have the original and brood war, the expansion.
That's all there is to the game at this point, right? Otherwise, I'm missing out... :D
The thing sort of has a zerg theme (though far more attractive).
MUCH more attractive...

I didn't actually design it with the Zerg in mind, it's supposed to be an artifact from a peaceful, elegant, communal culture. I'm trying to avoid the vomit. :)

Wedge, excellent! This could be the first map to have the only visible solids be patches.
That's the part that scares me! :D

master_thomas
03-22-2003, 06:21 PM
I think I've heard of some other Starcraft games. I am almost certain a new one is in the making. Not using the same engine though. I think it's an fps. You play as a ghost(the soldier with psychic abilities, not the ethereal being). In the campaign editor there is a list. I'll look now.

master_thomas
03-22-2003, 06:29 PM
Here is the list

"Starcraft Retail(1.00 - 1.03)
Starcraft Enhanced(1.04)
Starcraft Brood War"

It's the list of versions that a map can be played on. The fps Starcraft is something I read in a news article a while ago on a site I can't remember. At that time it was being made, so I don't know the current status.

master_thomas
03-22-2003, 06:37 PM
The Zerg theme (though MUCH more attractive) comes from that the whole thing looks biological with mushroom looking things inside. The tubes look like Nydus Canals. Maybe something kind of like the Xel'Naga. There is a final bonus level where Duran is Genetically combining Zerg and Protoss to make Xel'Naga and you learn he is actually one of them. In short, Xel'Naga are kinda half Zerg, Half Protoss. The ancient culture seems that it could be the Xel'Naga.

wedge2211
03-22-2003, 09:07 PM
StarCraft, and Brood War. "StarCraft Enhanced" is only a patch. And you mean StarCraft: Ghost, but it's for xbox or something. Anyways, back to the glorious praise of my map...

Eldritch
03-23-2003, 12:39 AM
[glorious praise]

You're the man, Wedge!

[/glorious praise]

:D

master_thomas
03-23-2003, 01:46 AM
[glorious praise]

Your the man, Wedge!

[/glorius praise]

Likewise. Mastery of the patch. :thumbs1: (various forms of praise)

About starcraft:ghost, you could still learn about the Zerg and Protoss from that. Even though it's a console game.

So Starcraft: Enhanced is a patch. JK2 1.02, 1.03, and 1.04 are patches, but they are constantly debated over which is best.

wedge2211
03-23-2003, 09:45 AM
Ah, Aru, so dependable... ;)

Now I guess I better get back to mapping, huh? (PS- SPRING BREAK! LOTS OF FREE TIME!)

The Truthful Liar
03-25-2003, 12:46 PM
More curves. :P As a matter of fact, I'm wondering how the gameplay flow will work in this map, it's alot of winding (glass) corridors with no hinting allowed. :\

wedge2211
03-25-2003, 01:13 PM
Hmm...what do you mean, Legion? Frame rates, or the actual winding layout?

If it's the former, I think I have the problem solved. I've been able to block off several sections of corridors with hint/areaportal brushes, and surround most of the corridors with separate struct brushes, so each corridor/room is its own leaf node, or something along those lines. I've had some pretty good results with r_showtris 1 in SP tests, though there's one room that it likes to draw even when I'm on the other side of a closed door with a portal in it, and I can't figure out why...

The Truthful Liar
03-25-2003, 01:23 PM
I mean actual gameplay, gunfire, range of weapons, usefulness of bunny hopping/raging, advantages of rocket over repeater or repeater over rockets, or do you plan to have this saber only? (I just got back today from Thailand, sorry if I seem slow.)

Edit: Looks very promising though. Exceptional work being done here for sure. :]

wedge2211
03-25-2003, 01:32 PM
Hmmm again. Good points there. I haven't tried this setup at all in a combat situation, but I definitely agree that it will result in a totally different style of play. Some of the tubes curve vertically quite a bit, too, and the few sharp bends will counteract rockets, etc. It's much more suited to saber/gun fights than long-range battles (in fact, I'm considering simply not including the rocket launcher...but I'll decide that for a fact when the time comes).

Usually, the tubes go pretty much straight without any sharp 90-degree bends, although most of them curve gently. There are also several rooms that, while still a bit constricted (especially in height), are fairly open. You might have some interesting ranged battles there. Also, explosives might be all the more deadly in Tal Erulanei simply because there aren't a lot of open areas...but then again, there are a lot of different ways to go from point A to point B. I'll see what happens! :)

[Edit: PS--Thailand! Cool!]

wedge2211
03-25-2003, 03:17 PM
Some updates...here you can see one of the two major corridors. I would put up images of the central open space (dueling area, heart of the a'Tal, whatever the heck it is, the only real big room in the map) but I'm having some mysterious trouble with a HOM on an areaportal-brush in a door. Huh. Anyways, without further ado...

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0152.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0153.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0151.jpg

A little reminder: there will always be more screenshots on my site than I will post here.

wedge2211
03-27-2003, 11:36 AM
The central room (I'm still working on the big plant thingy):

http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0160.jpg

Eldritch
03-27-2003, 12:18 PM
Very cool looking! Freaky, almost. Looks like something out of a sci-fi movie... should be a ton of fun to play.

Eagle_e7
03-27-2003, 02:24 PM
Looks really great wedge :thumbsup:

Kengo
03-27-2003, 02:38 PM
I'm maybe the only system shock 2 fan around here, so maybe its just me cowering in fear everytime I see these screenshots!

This is some of the most innovative use of architecture yet methinks, and absolutely no one can say "is that JK?" :D Great use of the Q3 engine all round. Looks really special :)

wedge2211
03-27-2003, 03:01 PM
"Special," yeah, I guess that's a word for it...

Another, better reason to cower in fear...kids, DONT try this at home:

http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/talEdit.jpg

Kengo
03-27-2003, 04:01 PM
Looks like conceptual art man.

If that was a piece of conceptual art it would be called something like...."Contemplating Light" or "Nature of Another" or "An apple made of nothing". Could even be the cover for a RadioHead album....

I use black with white lines, hmmm, white with black lines looks quite good.

wedge2211
03-27-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Kengo
If that was a piece of conceptual art it would be called something like...."Contemplating Light" or "Nature of Another" or "An apple made of nothing".

Uh...way too deep for me, dude. I just look at it and think, "This is a mess. I'm only half done. I wonder when I'll get a migraine?" But it's all worth it cause it looks sweet in-game. IMHO. :cool:

master_thomas
03-27-2003, 07:25 PM
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/talEdit.jpg

That does look like a mess in 2D view, but incredible in game.

Excellent job. It looks really organic. From the screenshots, it looks like it would already be great for release.

Eldritch
03-27-2003, 07:27 PM
*Mails Tylenol, Advil, Bayer and Excedrin to Wedge*

*thinks*

*mails Midol too, just in case*

:D

wedge2211
03-29-2003, 11:05 PM
I haven't made a final compile worthy of screenshots in a while, but I have a few pieces of news...mainly that I'm adding in some new details to old areas and the central arena is still evolving...looks different than that last screenshot...and I'm pushing ahead with a bunch of architecture, trying to get all the interior tunnels done before I go ahead and flood the thing with details. One other thing worthy of note, I said somewhere on page 1 of this topic that I might make a TerraGen tutorial cause a couple people asked how I made my sky for this map, and I actually did make said tutorial. It's on my site, you can link directly to it at http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/terragen.htm.

And now off I go to work on the thing some more...dum dee dum...

Leslie Judge
03-30-2003, 10:28 AM
I've read the tutorial. Very good job. :)

One comment: at the end you just mention the using of q3map_sun, but I think it would be better if you would show how to convert the TerraGen sun parameters to match with the game in the shader.

For test renders a value of 1 for the skylight iterations also a good idea (IMHO :)). Much less compile time.

And a warning at q3map_skylight would be also good: it works with q3map2 only.

wedge2211
03-30-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Leslie Judge
One comment: at the end you just mention the using of q3map_sun, but I think it would be better if you would show how to convert the TerraGen sun parameters to match with the game in the shader.
Erm...to tell the truth, I don't really know myself. :) I've always just played around with it till it seemed right...but if I ever find out how to convert it, I'll put it in there.

Pnut_Man
03-30-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by wedge2211
Some updates...here you can see one of the two major corridors. I would put up images of the central open space (dueling area, heart of the a'Tal, whatever the heck it is, the only real big room in the map) but I'm having some mysterious trouble with a HOM on an areaportal-brush in a door. Huh. Anyways, without further ado...

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0152.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0153.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0151.jpg

A little reminder: there will always be more screenshots on my site than I will post here.
:bounce3:

Make me an amphistaff model and I will dub thee Deity of jk2 editting :P

Leslie Judge
03-30-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by wedge2211
Erm...to tell the truth, I don't really know myself. :) I've always just played around with it till it seemed right...but if I ever find out how to convert it, I'll put it in there.
OK, here... a helping hand :)

In terragen the 0 degree is towards the top of the screen and increments clockwise. In Radiant (and ingame of course) the 0 degree is towards the right side of the scrren and increments counter-clockwise.

So:
Terragen 0 = Radiant 90
Terragen 45 = Radiant 45
Terragen 90 = Radiant 0 (360)
Terragen 135 = Radiant 315
Terragen 180 = Radiant 270
Terragen 225 = Radiant 225
Terragen 270 = Radiant 180
Terragen 315 = Radiant 135

The elevation of the sun is the same in both programs.

wedge2211
03-30-2003, 12:52 PM
I REALLY wish that patches were VIS blocking...

I finished ALL the interior layout 'cept for the side pod. Now I'm just going around surrouding all the tunnels with caulk brushes so that it splits into leaf nodes and has decent FPS. But man, trying to approximate the shape of a twisty tunnel with just the edge and clip tools is difficult...

wedge2211
03-30-2003, 07:13 PM
Kengo, better run for cover again!

Well, pnut, I'd better be a deity cause I'm taking the vertex tool to hell and back. :cool: This isn't a yammosk in the middle, but it might be something vongish:
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0168.jpg
(I'm still working on the dangly things. They're lamps or something.)

http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0165.jpg

master_thomas
03-30-2003, 08:54 PM
:drool1:

Nice double helixes. How many of these textures are custom? It looks like almost all of them.

I hope you don't get any stubborn errors like AKPiggot got on Party Crasher. It seems likely with all those patches:(. Do you have the exact count?

So far, it's curvy, detailed, and still looks very organic. :thumbs1:

Can you post a z axis(overhead) map of what it is now?
If not, how big is it so far?

wedge2211
03-30-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by master_thomas
:drool1:

Nice double helixes. How many of these textures are custom? It looks like almost all of them.
Thanks. THe far helix is actually kinda messed up, but it looks all gnarled, which is just as cool. There are three standard JKII textures/shaders in there. colors/yellow, yavin/greenblock and yavin/water1. Not including things like caulk and hint.
I hope you don't get any stubborn errors like AKPiggot got on Party Crasher. It seems likely with all those patches:(. Do you have the exact count?
Yeah, I hope not...I think the only problem I might run into is FPS. I think the map averages 50-60 overall. I don't know how to get a patch count out of Radiant, suffice it to say that most of the level goes away when I hit Ctrl+P. ;)
Can you post a z axis(overhead) map of what it is now?
If not, how big is it so far?
Um...I could, but it would be pretty useless. I haven't increased the map's dimensions, only added stuff inside it. The overhead map just looks like the original one I posted, only with LOTS more patches inside the various pods. LOTS more patches. Like, the thing is so full of lines, it's just a black smear. You wouldn't be able to see anything within the mess. I can't, and I built the goddam thing. :D LOTS of lines. All over the place. *shudder*

Architecture 100% complete. What remains: light entities galore, details, and powerups.

master_thomas
03-30-2003, 09:35 PM
That's where the region tool becomes almost necessary. To find the count, I think, filter patches, invert selection, unfilter patches. I think the patches count on the brush count and the selected brushes aren't.

wedge2211
03-31-2003, 05:24 PM
thomas: By that method, 1,113. :eek:

So...um, I finished all the architecture...and put the powerups/spawn points in their approximate final positions...and gave it a prelimenary bot route. I wanted to see what the gameplay is like (I still have to add various details to the map before it will be in any final state whatsoever). Anyways, the gameplay was pretty cool overall, it was interesting to play a game where you only have to take a few steps down a corridor to escape your enemy (unless he has the flechette grenade launcher or the repeater, they kinda rule the map). However...I have one major problem. What's wrong with this picture:
http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0170.jpg

That was in a game with 7 bots and me spectating. I tried a couple other games, and found that the map held a half-decent frame rate in a 3-4 player game, MAXIMUM 5-6 players. Not too bad, as it is a small map, but I suspect the engine is drawing a lot more crap than necessary. I'll be working on FPS optimization quite a bit, any suggestions are welcome.

DarkLord60
03-31-2003, 05:53 PM
Nice

master_thomas
03-31-2003, 10:34 PM
What about total, including the hint, caulk, skybox, etc?

5 fps? :freakout:

Ouch. Think about playing that online on a server where your ping would average 140(I have some like that). <shudders>.

Break the map up as well as you can. Lower visibility.

wedge2211
03-31-2003, 10:50 PM
One step ahead of you, I'm gonna run another test compile in minutes.

Altus_Thrawn
04-01-2003, 05:54 AM
Still looking great, I love the lighting next to fett's head.

Good Luck fixing the FPS.

Put me on the list of people who want to beta test it.

wedge2211
04-01-2003, 01:34 PM
Ahhh....

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0174.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0176.jpg

Still, the map runs much better mith <=6 players.

master_thomas
04-01-2003, 10:15 PM
Put me up their with Altus_Thrawn, or I recommend(although I'm still new to mapping and haven't released a completed project yet) open beta. It's much easier. Maybe, when you're ready, put the beta version up for download and open a beta testing thread, or starting a server with this on and enabling auto-download.

I'm putting "The Attack on Yavin" up for open beta at my site. Beta build 2 is coming out soon, of course, I shouldn't advertise on your thread. Why don't you do that too? You don't have communicate through e-mail as much, plus, lots more points with a beta testing thread;).

At least fps is improving. 52 with 6 players. That's pretty good. How many with 7 now? Is their a leap in lag or does the rate of increase grow after 6? Good look with framerate optimization.

wedge2211
04-01-2003, 11:38 PM
The 38 FPS reading is with 8 players, 7 bots and me spectating, although I did see it hit 40's a couple times, maybe 50's in that area. (Actually, that area is a "trouble spot," it's not representative of the rest of the level.) I have a couple other things to try out to boost frame rates. I don't know if they'll affect that area in particular, but there should *crosses fingers* be some general improvement.


No beta decisions have been made on this map yet.

Altus_Thrawn
04-02-2003, 06:14 AM
Looks like you'll get the framerates up enough. :)

wedge2211
04-03-2003, 09:27 PM
Okey-dokey, I'm going through this map trying to add details, but...man, all those curves! Does anyone out there know of any sites where I might find organic-looking models to put in this map?

Pnut_Man
04-03-2003, 10:02 PM
Dead Vong laying on the ground...DO IT WEDGE...YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!!!

master_thomas
04-03-2003, 10:29 PM
Let's get to the basics. Plants. Everyone knows plants are organic. Otherwise, look for fungi, and it seems to fit. Plus, if you want to build it out of brushes, a 'shroom's all curves;). Dead Vong, well, that would make sense, but remember: Lost, advanced society. Not the location for recent mass slaughter(unless you want that in your ffa storyline).

So, the fps is still improving. Good.

wedge2211
04-03-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by master_thomas
Let's get to the basics. Plants. Everyone knows plants are organic.
Plants are organic? REally? ...FIND ME SOME! I'd put them in if I had some good ones, the yavin ones are too leafy and ferny.
Dead Vong, well, that would make sense, but remember: Lost, advanced society. Not the location for recent mass slaughter(unless you want that in your ffa storyline).
Yeah, I know the story I made up for my map. :)

Originally posted by pnut_master
Dead Vong laying on the ground...DO IT WEDGE...YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!!!
Wanna find me some dead vong models? ;) Unfortunately, even if there are some, I don't think they would fit very well with the theme. This map is far too "nice" for vong! :D

ioshee
04-04-2003, 12:44 PM
Hey Wedge,

Sorry I havent uploaded that music yet. I've been kinda out of it for a little while. I'm still planning on doing it and I'll let you know when I do.

What kind of "details" are you thinking of adding? Just my humble opinion, but I think too many models could detract from the organic peaceful value.

Great work so far. I dont mind playing with 5 fps (j/k I know youve probably already fixed it.)

wedge2211
04-04-2003, 01:53 PM
That's okay, I think the Myst music is working very nicely. But sure, upload stuff, I'll consider it.

"Details" would be the helices, those green "light-pods," ridges and bumps, etc. I'm playing with hanging fern and grass models upside-down from the tunnels to see what that looks like. I'm trying to keep the theme uppermost in mind as I do this (makes detailing really tough...I can barely use brushes!)

Pnut_Man
04-04-2003, 06:41 PM
The Vong thing was a joke, I'm waiting for jk3 and Kotor until I start bashing people to begin huge NJO TC Mods :P

I'll try finding some good organic models, maybe some of my modeller friends can whip up some cheap ones for you...

The Truthful Liar
04-04-2003, 09:13 PM
I think wedge already got his resources for plant/organic models now. ; )

wedge2211
04-04-2003, 11:07 PM
Yeah, I got a few already. Variety always helps though, if any of you see anything else that might work in this setting, please let me know!

shukrallah
04-07-2003, 04:31 PM
whoa, dude, that looks awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D cant wait to download it! very nice, ive never seen anything like it!

master_thomas
04-07-2003, 06:44 PM
That's 'cause there is nothing like it!;)

wedge2211
04-10-2003, 06:59 PM
I'd just like to take this time to announce that I'm planning a complete from-scratch overhaul of the map that will delay release by about 7 months....

No, just kidding. Seriously, I just want to reassure all y'all (why am I from Massachusetts and saying that? No idea) that I am indeed working on this, just haven't updated in a while. I'm back at school now, and the project will speed up once I finish this English paper and computer science midterm...blearg...

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 08:07 PM
I'm back at school now, and the project will speed up once I finish this English paper and computer science midterm...blearg...

Glad I'm not in College. (I will be in four years. Wow, I'm younger than over 90% of my fellow forum goers.)

y'all (why am I from Massachusetts and saying that? No idea)

'cause
Don't worry Wedge, I'm starting to use more slang too.

Uh oh. Pop-up coming. Every day for the last two weeks, pop-ups have caused my browser to crash. Dang advertisements. DO YOU THINK WE GIVE A ****? MOST OF US CLOSE THEM BEFORE THEY EVEN LOAD YOU *****ES!!!

Okay, as I calm down and reduce my profanity (fewer asterisks for a better tomorrow! lol) , I will say, "Man, I wish we had more vacation time."

Any luck with the fps? Not that it will bother me too much (I never seem to have fps problems. I guess I'm lucky)

LITE Jedi
04-10-2003, 08:22 PM
I'm back at school now, and the project will speed up once I finish this English paper and computer science midterm...blearg...

I feel your pain.

master_thomas
04-12-2003, 08:39 PM
So, how's school going? Get anything done? How's fps (I've been trying to improve fps in my levels and have not been having any luck with area portals.

wedge2211
04-12-2003, 11:41 PM
I'm working on it, I'm working on it...sheesh...

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 12:00 AM
If you were not talking to me in that post, don't bother reading.

Originally posted by Wedge2211

I'm working on it, I'm working on it...sheesh...

Hey; I just made a short post to ask how things were going for you, Wedge.

"Anything" means mapping or school etc. If you got any mapping done, I was asking if that was successful. Relax. Take your time. No pressure here. You have more important things to do, like school.

Don't worry. This is of low priority. We work for an extremely loose, non-profit organization. The mapping community. We work on our own time. Our non-editing fellow players owe us for supplying them with fun additions to JK2 and we are under no deadline or contract.

HAIL TO THE JK2 EDITORS!!!

Mappers, coders, modellers, skinners, scripters, (though many editors write their own scripts) sound recorders, texture and shader makers, music recorders/harvesters, (harvesters, lol. That sounds wierd)the people who edit the cfg files, the saber blade editors, and those who make websites for dev teams. Did I leave anyone out?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note to non-editors: Sorry, if I made you look bad in this post, but that's how I feel.

wedge2211
04-19-2003, 05:46 PM
I just thought I'd pop in to remind you all that I can still map...

http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0212.jpg
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0214.jpg
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0216.jpg
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0217.jpg
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0220.jpg

Business_Eskimo
04-19-2003, 07:02 PM
Looks nice. I'm not too sure about those upside-down plants though, personally. ;)

LITE Jedi
04-19-2003, 07:09 PM
I like the plants hanging upside down, personally. Looks good, nice to know you still can map ;)

wedge2211
04-19-2003, 07:14 PM
It's "unconventional," they're supposed to be like cillia or something.

Um, I looked at those again and realized that the lighting sucks. So please don't berate me for that, it's NOT final. :)

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 08:02 PM
It's not too bad. The platform lighting is uneven and the view from the tube (I don't know what to call it) is a bit dark, but still looks excellent.

Hey, I just made my first decent simple patch mesh of a bathtub. You have made everything (except entities) out of patches.

wedge2211
04-23-2003, 04:12 PM
MORE UPDATES!

I'M ALMOST DONE!

This is an old area, redone:
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0227.jpg

The ball inside this helix will be glowing:
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0225.jpg

Here are some shots of Han to give you all a sense of scale:
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0222.jpg
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0224.jpg

And finally, my favorite shot...LOOK AT THE FPS NUMBER! YES, THAT'S OUTSIDE IN THE TUBE! I HIT 90 IN THE TUBE LAST TEST RUN!!!!!
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0230.jpg

There are several more screenshots on my web site, which, I would like to add, has undergone a total re-vamp. Check it out! http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/outcast.htm!!!!

master_thomas
04-23-2003, 04:16 PM
Nice! :thumbs1:. FPS: 62 IN THE TUBE? WAHOO! Okay. How many players were there at the time?

wedge2211
04-23-2003, 04:18 PM
Um, there were...uh...just me. But I did hit 90 in the other tube.

Pnut_Man
04-23-2003, 06:42 PM
http://wso.williams.edu:8000/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0222.jpg

That reminds me of the device that tortured Jacen Solo in Traitor

Perhaps you're secretly being influenced by the New Jedi Order novels as you finish this map up...mwhahah!

Excellent work my man ;)

Shadriss
04-23-2003, 11:50 PM
YOU MUST RELEASE MAP!

Hands twitching to play...

Mind boggling at Patch Meshes...

*brain short circuits*

wedge2211
04-25-2003, 01:59 AM
I'm going to start the first beta-stage compile tonight.

wedge2211
04-25-2003, 11:48 PM
Here is what is probably the last set of screenshots for this map. After this, you've seen it all.

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0234.jpg

http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0236.jpg

No, this is not a tree...
http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0239.jpg

Here's pnut_master's "Embrace of Pain" from a different angle. (PS, that's not what I think it is :P)
http://wso.williams.edu/~jshoer/images/screenshots/shot0240.jpg

There are several more on my site.

After beta testing (I'm all set, DONT ask if you can beta for me), Tal Erulanei will be released with the NRG Free-For-All Map Pack this summer (not that far away, don't worry). The FFA pack will also include the Derelict, a map of mine which has some very prelimenary shots on my site...

master_thomas
04-26-2003, 12:58 AM
Summer? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Okay. :lol:

Very, very, nice job, Wedge. I love the orange spheres. Really, this is incredible work. You really are an excellent mapper.............................(random compliments on your mapping)..............................:thumbs1:.

Final brush and entity count?

Khaza
04-26-2003, 06:04 AM
I want to know how you clip the visibility to interior places ? :confused: Since I don't remeber patches ever did this...

Shadriss
04-26-2003, 12:18 PM
I'm ALMOST hurt, Wedge. You know why... if you dont, I'll pout at you until you DO know. :)

Honestly, the map is a true work of art. From a mappers point of view, ,patch meshes have been, ,and for most of us, ,will always be the most frustrating thing to work with. What you've achieved in this map is nothing short of masterful. Even if none of your other maps achieve any kind of noteriety (Yeah, like THATS gonna happen...) this map alone would secure your name among the great mappers of JK2. Excellent work.

Now get off your duff and get to helping ME out... You know what I'm talking about! (6)

wedge2211
04-26-2003, 01:37 PM
master_thomas: Brush count? You mean PATCH count? ...You do NOT want to know.

Khaza: I put boxes of struct brushes around them. :)

Shadriss: Thank you very, very, much...for the compliments and even more for running that compile for me. (Everyone else: big kudos go to Shad for actually running the last compile, since my computer crawls on it.) I can talk to you online, any time, I'm one of those college students who lets his computer sit there, on, networked, and active...usually...

I'm actually pretty excited to have this go in the NRG pack. I know that plenty of you (including me) would cry to have it out now, but NRG is worth it. There are a lot of neat maps going in there!

*bows dramatically* Thank you all, and have a good night!

*big hook snakes out from the side of the stage and grabs Wedge, yanking him off*

Pnut_Man
04-26-2003, 02:09 PM
Well I can wait for the summer. And Bah! So what if that tree doesn't look like the Embrace of Pain! I'll find my own..in there..somewhere..

Last request: Convert this babey to Jedi Academy :)

starunner
04-27-2003, 05:28 PM
While I'm sure the last thing you want to do at this point is add more patches to the outside areas, have you given any thought to carrying the "rooty/stalky" theme to the exterior? The "pods" just look a little bare when compared to the lushly detailed interiors.

Here's a dodgy concept drawing (http://members.lycos.co.uk/starunner/screens/tal.jpg)

I'm sure it's a bad idea seeing as you've only just got the high framerates back, but I just thought I'd suggest it. Everything looks fantastic as it is anyways, so feel free to yell "n00b!" in my general direction. :p

wedge2211
04-27-2003, 05:42 PM
Yell n00b at you? Not likely, I love the Coruscant Promenade. And, actually...that's a really good idea, I might play around with that. I'm not sure how the FPS will be affected, the main way I got it to improve was by cutting out the "stalk" at the bottom of the main pod, which you really couldn't see anyways, and shirking the open area by a lot, so I might be able to pull it off. That's a really neat-looking drawing, by the way, not dodgy at all in my opinion (and I *know* it'll start pnut yelling "VONG! VONG!")

Speaking of pnut, I'm already planning to convert all/most of my maps to JA when I get the editing tools for it.

Leslie Judge
04-27-2003, 08:06 PM
Evader got some answers from Raven about the JA editor. They said him that the architecture can be imported but the texturing not.

Thought I tell you. :D

Shadriss
04-27-2003, 10:26 PM
Well, that doesnt sound too bad, Leslie. Most of the problems in making a map are in the structuring... the texturing is relatively simple and quick comparitively... at least in MY experiance it has been...

wedge2211
04-28-2003, 02:06 AM
Now, since JA is Q3, it's editing tools would be some form of Radiant and would use the same file formats, correct? So as long as I grab the relevant textures and put them in a new pk3, then won't I just be able to open the map format in JARadiant?

...well, we'll find out when we get there.

master_thomas
04-28-2003, 08:34 AM
At least MP conversion could be that easy.

In SP, you could have 1000 entities to replace.:(

Still, the architectre is pretty much the hardest thing to do.