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Darth Groovy
02-28-2003, 02:36 PM
At this point in my life, at 28 years of age, I do believe that I am the only person in this world that does not, nor have ever participated in any drug type activity. I am not trying to come off like some self righteous moron. I just never thoght that I should be stupid like most of my freinds to gain social acceptance. Then later in life, I watched those same freinds as they developed addictions, personal struggles, and criminal activity. One girl who I was engaged too, died from drugs. And now recently I discovered that my girlfreind, did some pot. I know what your all thinking... it's a little pot, whats the big deal? It seems to me, it always starts out as "a little pot" and keeps evolving inot something worse. It seems to me the older I get, the more determined I get to not do it. I have had more opportunities than most poeple I know. I was in four rock bands and still remain drug free. I will never do drugs as long as I live, but why do so many poeple I care deeply about choose to get into this mess? I welcome all of your feedback. Why does this bother me so much?

Reborn Outcast
02-28-2003, 03:34 PM
There already a topic on this near the bottom of the page. :D

But I have never done drugs and I don't plan to.

And I believe your right in thinking that drugs are wrong. Thats just my personal opinion though.

Luc Solar
02-28-2003, 03:39 PM
I have never had a cig in my mouth. I have no idea what smoking is like and I'm planning on keeping it that way. The same goes for drugs.

Drugs are bad, mmkay?

I do use alcohol quite a lot though...

*looks at the 2 empty bottles of beer on the comp desk*

Oh well.. *shrugs*

ckcsaber
02-28-2003, 06:21 PM
I have never had alcohol, drugs, or smoked a cigarette. It is completly idiotic to do drugs.

I do wonder to myself sometimes, why people do drugs and its just for stupid reasons. In the end, the person who does drugs is WEAK. They are WEAKMINDED, plain and simple, and I feel no sympathy for them. If they wanna get high, go right ahead. Its common knowledge what drugs do to you, and there is simply no excuse for doing it.

obi
02-28-2003, 11:24 PM
Doing ANYTHING at all to the body is terrible, imo. I'm not even going to get a tattoo.

Drugs make people feel like they are on top of things. I, personally, have never tried any drug, nor do I plan on doing so. Many up many of my friends do drugs, and no matter how much i am against it, no matter how much wisdom I offer ot them, they ignore me, and call me a "rightous boy." (I am not mad or angered by these comments, I find them as compliments. I am glad the world around me sees me differently then everyone else.)

These simple uses of drugs already have them hooked, I think. I pray that they will snap out of it and realize what harm they are doing to themselves. My friends are the going out, partying,drinking, and sleeping with anyone type of people. I do not do any of this, and I do not condone their actions, but I am instead trying to turn them away from this destructive path. I know that 96% of teenagers don't give a horse's patoot about their health, or their dignity, but I do. I try to give them some of that dignity, but they refuse it.

I HATE to see people do drugs and ruin their life. They are throwing out something precious that was given to them.

munik
02-28-2003, 11:38 PM
Darth Groovy, define your take on what "drugs" are and I can offer up an opinion. Usually I see people use the word "drugs" as a negative description, not really including all drugs, but certain ones. Maybe you could list off the ones you are refering to, or the ones you think are ok.

I notice the confusion immediately:Luc Solar
I have never had a cig in my mouth. I have no idea what smoking is like and I'm planning on keeping it that way. The same goes for drugs.
I do use alcohol quite a lot though...
Or maybe he was being sarcastic, I dunno.

Kain
02-28-2003, 11:41 PM
smoked weed, smoked a few cigarettes*yeck*, been drunk

sadly, i think its the blood...damn father hippy...that and playing *******

ET Warrior
03-01-2003, 02:29 AM
I'm 100% sober 100% of the time.....never drank, smoked, done drugs, or anysuch. It just hold absolutely NO appeal to me. Plus i've seen a LOT of people get their lives completely ruined by drugs.

And by drugs i mean illegal narcotics gotten without a prescription or medical need for them....or somethin like that.....

When you say doing ANYTHING to the body obi, does that include hair dying? As i know a few people who think hair dying is bad...

I wouldn't mind getting a tattoo of a dragon....a small one, somewhere easily covered up for like, job interviews, and when i get old and decide that i hate my tattoo......and such.

Luc Solar
03-01-2003, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Drugs are bad, mmkay?
I do use alcohol quite a lot though...


Originally posted by munik
I notice the confusion immediately:
Or maybe he was being sarcastic, I dunno.

I dunno either. I was trying to point out the same thing you did...but I don't have an opinion about the whole deal yet so..

*shrugs*

:D

obi
03-01-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by ET Warrior


When you say doing ANYTHING to the body obi, does that include hair dying?

Nah, Hair dying is ok. When I said "anything" to the body, I meant anything that would degrade it in anyway. If you want to get a tatoo, that's fine. I don't really care about tattoos. The only reason i'm not getting one is because they do it with a needle, and I have this fear of needles. :\

FunClown
03-01-2003, 10:39 AM
If you know anyone who gets Emphesema, you would have a very good reason on why not to smoke ever.

He can't even walk 6 meters to the rubbish bin and back without coughing up all this phlem. A few more meters and he could die (I'm not kidding) when he get bouts of Emphesema.

That isn't too 'cool'.

ET Warrior
03-01-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
they do it with a needle, and I have this fear of needles. :\

I also fear needles....so it's quite possible i'd be too afraid to get one, but i still think a dragon would be cool.........

ShockV1.89
03-01-2003, 03:01 PM
If drugs are defined as the illegal kind (in the US), like weed, crack, and the like... then I would never do it, and never have. I've been in the situation in which I could do most of those things, and I've never cracked. Been tempted, but never cracked (hey, they did look like they were having fun. :) )

As for alcohol... I have gotten wasted a few times, mostly because I dont really see the harm in it as long as I keep it to a minimum. I've only done it three times. I'm more of a social drinker... I'll have a few mixed drinks at a party, but never really anything major. I've only gotten drunk at my 21st birthday part, and at New Years... and once at a friends house when he came home from school.

I know weed isnt really bad for you if done in moderation (sorta like alcohol). But whenever I'm offered, I just think of the guys I knew back in high school who did it. They ended up dropping out and spending all their time trying to get weed money between working at mcdonalds and sleeping at their parents house. I doubt it would ever happen to me, but the thought of it just turns me off to it.

edit: And needles scare the bejeezus out of me... :D

edit: To answer your question, Groovy... I think you care and it bothers you because you care about your friends, and you know what excessive drug use can do to a person. And you dont want it to happen to your friends. Nothing wrong with that, it's an admirable trait, I feel the same way. Just means you care. :)

access_flux
03-01-2003, 03:46 PM
i have tried weed, but nothing more than that, and i used to smoke it quite regularly, but now i just smoke cigarettes and drink. i don't believe that if oyustart off on soft drugs then that leads to harder drugs, because me and most of my friends are the same. sure i have mates who do stuff like extasy and speed, but they all know the limit and do it for a recreatíonal purpose, and i know they aren'T addicted cause they can go on for months without talking about it. drugs are a social thing, and unfortunately widely accepted by most of the youth community.

C'jais
03-01-2003, 06:21 PM
You should try pot with her. Really. It's not going to hook you in any way, and afterwards you'll be able to state that it was not for you. You'll survive the experience with no scars, and you'll have some actual knowledge on it.

The whole deal of "pot makes you want to take other, worse drugs as well" is fundamentally flawed, as it can be summarized into "alcohol makes you want to go on drinking binges and you'll eventually, with time, become an alcoholic from your abuse". Use and abuse. Apples and oranges.

My advice: Don't base your entire relationship on whether or not she smokes pot. Keep an eye on her, just to check if she begins to crave heroin sooner or later. Heroin is bad. Very bad.

munik
03-01-2003, 08:50 PM
Yeah, smoke up with her. Can't hurt anything, really. But there is that chance that after one hit you'll turn into a raving lunatic and go on a killing spree that people will talk about for the next decade. Or so I'm told.
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
If drugs are defined as the illegal kind (in the US), like weed, crack, and the like... then I would never do it, and never have.
Just to point out, there are shades of grey concerning "illegal" drugs in the U.S. Not everything will get you in trouble. Like the above, weed is schedule I, but crack, which is just freebase cocaine, is schedule II. Along with opiates like codeine and morphine. I've known plenty of people legally taking codeine, and plenty illegally taking it. Is the drug bad in and of itself, or is it because of it's legal status? So, if someone smokes crack, is it bad only if it is done illegally, or is it bad because it's crack?

greedo626
03-02-2003, 10:57 AM
first off, groovy, don't smoke pot with your girlfriend. you said she did smoke. if she has stopped, good for her. if she still smokes, but only 'once in awhile,' try to convince her to stop. by smoking it yourself you'd only be sending the wrong message.

Originally posted by munik
Just to point out, there are shades of grey concerning "illegal" drugs in the U.S. Not everything will get you in trouble. Like the above, weed is schedule I, but crack, which is just freebase cocaine, is schedule II. Along with opiates like codeine and morphine. I've known plenty of people legally taking codeine, and plenty illegally taking it. Is the drug bad in and of itself, or is it because of it's legal status? So, if someone smokes crack, is it bad only if it is done illegally, or is it bad because it's crack?

as for this, most drugs are used for legitimate purposes like morphine and even marijuana can be used for medical purposes. but taking these drugs without having an illness is like drinking Nyquil or vanilla extract for the alcohol content.

Darth Groovy
03-08-2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
You should try pot with her. Really. It's not going to hook you in any way, and afterwards you'll be able to state that it was not for you. You'll survive the experience with no scars, and you'll have some actual knowledge on it.

The whole deal of "pot makes you want to take other, worse drugs as well" is fundamentally flawed, as it can be summarized into "alcohol makes you want to go on drinking binges and you'll eventually, with time, become an alcoholic from your abuse". Use and abuse. Apples and oranges.

My advice: Don't base your entire relationship on whether or not she smokes pot. Keep an eye on her, just to check if she begins to crave heroin sooner or later. Heroin is bad. Very bad.

I disagree. I have personally seen this dozens of time to know, I live near Chicago, where drugs are easier to find than books. It always starts off as a little bit of weed, and then it escalates into something much worse. The point is, she knew how I felt about this, yet she went and did it anyway. I used to smoke about half a pack of menthols a day, and I quit because she thought "smoking was gross". Tell me, where is the real trade off here? I'll smoke pot, when Goerge Bush decides to sign a treaty with Saddam Hussein.:rolleyes:

RpTheHotrod
03-08-2003, 01:48 AM
First, I believe it's wrong if you're in Christ. Your body is a temple of Christ. Take care of it.


Now, OUTSIDE of "beliefs"...

I'd rather keep my body in good condition.

Darklighter
03-08-2003, 09:18 AM
Exactly. Drugs are bad. Full stop. There is a reason why harmful drugs are illegal, but no one seems to take that fact into account. I myself have never taken drugs, never even put a cigerette in my mouth, and I don't ever intend to. Drugs do so many irreversibly bad things to your body and mind, and IMO, 'having a good time' is no excuse to take such a huge risk.

greedo626
03-08-2003, 12:05 PM
I used to have two friends. we joked about doing drugs all the time, talking like stoners and acting like crack addicts. but then they actually started smoking pot. I watched as they went from promising young men who enjoyed playing music and sports, to just two guys who spent every waking moment of their lives either smoking pot or thinking about the next time they could. they no longer cared about music, sports, or their friends. all they care about now is pot. I watched them destroy their lives and could do nothing about it. "just a little pot" isn't just that.

Darth Groovy
03-08-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by greedo626
I used to have two friends. we joked about doing drugs all the time, talking like stoners and acting like crack addicts. but then they actually started smoking pot. I watched as they went from promising young men who enjoyed playing music and sports, to just two guys who spent every waking moment of their lives either smoking pot or thinking about the next time they could. they no longer cared about music, sports, or their friends. all they care about now is pot. I watched them destroy their lives and could do nothing about it. "just a little pot" isn't just that.

I herebye nominate this as the best post I have read all year...period. This is EXACTLY what I mean. I have seen this so many times, it is not even funny any more.

Also told the GF, that pot is something I am not willing to accept. She assures me, it won't be repeated, but I have heard this before. I will keep a close eye out, and we will see what happens next. I hate loosing the ones I love, to something as dumb as drugs...

C'jais
03-09-2003, 09:15 AM
I and my friends infrequently smoke the hashish. We're all considered above average intelligence, and we all have healthy past time interests, while working as well.

There are no gateway drugs. Only gateway people.

Breton
03-09-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
I and my friends infrequently smoke the hashish. We're all considered above average intelligence, and we all have healthy past time interests, while working as well.

There are no gateway drugs. Only gateway people.

Just a question: Why do you smoke it at all? I assume you know the health damages it causes, both to the lungs and to the brain (it does make you dumber). What's the point of doing it anyway? Can you really enjoy causing damage to your body like that?

Pierre the Frog
03-09-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
I and my friends infrequently smoke the hashish. We're all considered above average intelligence, and we all have healthy past time interests, while working as well.

There are no gateway drugs. Only gateway people.

I hang out with C'jais, so I guess I'm one of the above (some might disagree with me being above average int. but thats beside the point).

I agree with C'jais, so does my chemistry teacher, moving on from what is concidered as mild drugs, is strictly psycological, and thus they most likely would end up doing 'em anyways.

Don't smoke, drink or shoot-up anything you don't want to, there's no point, and you wont enjoy it anyway. I can respect people who doesn't want to try, I can respect people who has tried it once and never smoke it again. But I can't respect people who smoke it cause of peer-pressure. it should be your own choice

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by greedo626
I used to have two friends. we joked about doing drugs all the time, talking like stoners and acting like crack addicts. but then they actually started smoking pot. I watched as they went from promising young men who enjoyed playing music and sports, to just two guys who spent every waking moment of their lives either smoking pot or thinking about the next time they could. they no longer cared about music, sports, or their friends. all they care about now is pot. I watched them destroy their lives and could do nothing about it. "just a little pot" isn't just that. not all people do this i myself have smoked pot. i used to get prescriptions for it until it was no longer legal for pot to be sold no matter what the reason. i have never met anyone like this. though this doesnt mean that they dont exist but it is very rare i can assure you of that. that is unless they didnt have much to do before then of course the newest thing they do takes over. despite some things said pot isnt as dangerous as cigarettes.

Breton
03-09-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
not all people do this i myself have smoked pot. i used to get prescriptions for it until it was no longer legal for pot to be sold no matter what the reason. i have never met anyone like this. though this doesnt mean that they dont exist but it is very rare i can assure you of that

I can assure you that they are more common that you think.

despite some things said pot isnt as dangerous as cigarettes.

Pot cannot be compared with tobacco. Dangerous isn't the same as damaging. We already know the effects pot has on your brain, it makes you slower and more childish, that is a fact. And you still have the lung damage it causes. Now I have given people plenty of reasons on why it shouldn't be legalized, and I have not seen any good reason on why we should legalize it. Alright, alcohol is probably more dangerous, but that doesn't make pot less damaging. And saying pot should be legalized just because alcohol is, is pretty much the same as saying that it should be allowed to punch anyone you want just because it's allowed to knock out each other in boxing games.

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 02:16 PM
my friend has been doing studies at his university and they are somewhat similar but if you know what to get its not very dangerous compared to a cigarette. most people who smoke pot dont get pot with tar. or atleast i dont and my friends dont.

Pierre the Frog
03-09-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Just a question: Why do you smoke it at all? I assume you know the health damages it causes, both to the lungs and to the brain (it does make you dumber). What's the point of doing it anyway? Can you really enjoy causing damage to your body like that?

You can draw a parallel straight to beer, it is poison, but you have another kind of fun then you do when your sober (I would like to point that out: I have fun sober), that is why most people drink.

That is why I (and I haven't spoken to anyone else about this so I'm speaking for me only) smoke hashish.

Another reason for drinking and smoking stuff might (and this is a theory) be to escape from the "real" world. Everyone tries to run from it (or so my theory goes) that is why people watch TV, read, hangs out with others, anything to stop oneself from thinking.
(Psychological theory from a guy who doesn't believe it has proven itself valid as a science - notice the irony?)

Darth Groovy
03-10-2003, 03:31 AM
Is it just me, or has anyone noticed that pot really smells. I mean it smells awful! It smells like fecal matter. Do you really want to inhale something that smells as if it came out of someone, or something's oriface? If so, why not just ride around town with the local tavern drunk, leave the windows up and inhale the beer farts.:rolleyes: Still not convinced? :eek:

I go to concerts alot, and sometimes it takes me about two showers, and hours of scrubbing to get that funky smell off of me. Another downside is getting the munchies. I went to a Cypress Hill concert in 93, or 94 and got so blown from the contact smoke, that I was pretty wasted. Just to give you an idea, It was a blizzard in the dead of February and me and my buddy were driving home laughing our heads off with the windows down and our shirts off. When I got home I ate about 12 Tacos, a large pizza, and 2 quarts of chocalte ice cream and I was still hungry. Yeah that's healthy....... :rolleyes:

Edit- Here is my psychological theory: Why volunterily do something that makes you behave like a moron?:confused:

C'jais
03-10-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
Edit- Here is my psychological theory: Why volunterily do something that makes you behave like a moron?:confused:

Good point.

I'm thinking it's because we all need to escape from reality, as Pierre put it. And because it's mighty fun.

BTW, I've never got the munchies, and I don't think cannabis smells bad. It has a somewhat "odd" smell, but it's not bad, IMHO.

Breton
03-10-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
I'm thinking it's because we all need to escape from reality, as Pierre put it.

The it would be a lot wiser to buy a computer game or something, wouldn't it? Much less damaging.

And because it's mighty fun.

So are computer games. Though I don't see the fun in acting like an idiot (not meant as flaming, just so you know).

El Sitherino
03-10-2003, 05:19 PM
pot usually doesnt make you act like an idiot. usually it just mellows you out and you basically point out things that usually you wouldnt point out such as why they call things what they are called cuz it sounds like something else. and well frankly i dont get this it harms you so why do it its got health risks. well so does eating fast food all the time but that doesnt mean people wont do it cuz people have been saying fast food isnt healthy since 1956 yet i see some fat dudes at the mcdonalds everyday at every breakfast lunch and dinner eating burgers fries and huge cokes. they are at worse risk than any pothead. and dont tell me they arent.

C'jais
03-10-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
The it would be a lot wiser to buy a computer game or something, wouldn't it? Much less damaging.

Well, yes, I'll grant you that.

But we all need diversity once in a while, no?

And drugs are social :rolleyes:

So are computer games. Though I don't see the fun in acting like an idiot (not meant as flaming, just so you know).

You don't act as an idiot, as much as you're more relaxed, calm and of a hazy mind.

Breton
03-10-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
. well so does eating fast food all the time but that doesnt mean people wont do it cuz people have been saying fast food isnt healthy since 1956 yet i see some fat dudes at the mcdonalds everyday at every breakfast lunch and dinner eating burgers fries and huge cokes. they are at worse risk than any pothead. and dont tell me they arent.

But food is needed for you body to function. If you eat too much, it may be damaging. Drugs are different, because it's damaging no matter how much you use of it. Plus, food don't affect your brain like pot does.

And drugs are social

But wouldn't it be better to hang out with friends without having to drug yer brain to death?

You don't act as an idiot, as much as you're more relaxed, calm and of a hazy mind.

Sorry, confused it a bit with alcohol and other drugs. But it doesn't change much, since it still makes you an idiot.

No matter what you belive, pot is banned for a reason.

C'jais
03-10-2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Drugs are different, because it's damaging no matter how much you use of it.

That's not entirely right.

But wouldn't it be better to hang out with friends without having to drug yer brain to death?

I don't drug myself excessively. Far from it.

Everything taken to excess is bad for you. Heck, it's bad for your health to stare at the monitor right now. Damn, it's even unhealthy to live. Why not get as many sensations as you can? It's not like I smoke once a week, or even once a month - but I'm glad that I've tried it, looking back. I don't think I'm scarred for life, if that's what you're implying.

Sorry, confused it a bit with alcohol and other drugs. But it doesn't change much, since it still makes you an idiot.

An idiot? Err...

...so does riding a horse. Idiot in this sense is only derived from cultural norms.

No matter what you belive, pot is banned for a reason.

Yeh, and I think it should be. But by the same reasoning, so should alcohol and tobacco. I'm not so sure about those, as they're generally accepted.

Drugs (alcohol, pot etc) are healthy in the sense that most people all need to flee from reality into their little, drug induced universe once in a while, to help cope with the real world better. Not everyone likes being confronted with a brutal reality 24/7.

It's like the drugs that helps you deal psychical trauma. And the ones that cures your depressing. And the ones that put you to sleep. They're all unhealthy taken to excess, but I still think their benefit on the people that need them outweigh their bad aspects.

Breton
03-10-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by C'jais

[B]

I don't drug myself excessively. Far from it.


Didn't really talk to you, but to people (or about people) that does drug themselves excessively.

An idiot? Err...

I really was talking about the affects it has on the brain, making you slower, acting more childish, etc.

Yeh, and I think it should be.

Good. We agree then.

It's like the drugs that helps you deal psychical trauma. And the ones that cures your depressing. And the ones that put you to sleep. They're all unhealthy taken to excess, but I still think their benefit on the people that need them outweigh their bad aspects.

1. Other things can be as effective to be used to flee from your ordinary lives, things that aren't dangerous.

2. It starts with a little pot, but I belive we all know how a lot of them ends.

munik
03-10-2003, 11:59 PM
Pot is not a "gateway" drug. That is just some DEA propaganda. The correlation is drawn thusly: Those who use other drugs have used pot, so pot leads to using other drugs. But people who use other drugs also drive cars. Does that mean cars are gateway objects? Of course not. Because even though people who use other drugs drive cars, not all people who drive cars use other drugs. The same is true of pot. Yes, some people do different drugs, including pot, but not all people who smoke pot do other drugs.

So what's the big deal if it's made legal or not? It's not like it's gonna go away, ever. We are talking about a plant that if given some decent light, would probaly be able to grow on the inside of a bums assh*le. You and your mom working together as the mighty drugbusters could work non stop for decades and not even put a dent in the marijuana market. You and a demented horde of mutilated midgets could spout off at the mouth about the dangers and harmful effects of marijuana to teen and pre teen children all across the globe for the rest of your natural lives, yet it would all be for naught when one child tries pot and realizes he has been fed horsesh*t his entire life.

For christs sake, lighten up. Smoking a joint ain't never hurt no one, ain't never gonna. And what's up with this "smoking pot makes you act childish" thing? Who the hell do you smoke with? Retards? Jeez.

Breton
03-11-2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by munik
The correlation is drawn thusly: Those who use other drugs have used pot, so pot leads to using other drugs. But people who use other drugs also drive cars. Does that mean cars are gateway objects? Of course not. Because even though people who use other drugs drive cars, not all people who drive cars use other drugs. The same is true of pot. Yes, some people do different drugs, including pot, but not all people who smoke pot do other drugs.


As there are LOADS of more people driving cars than the amount using pot, that argument doesn't fit at all. And I belive there is quite few of the drug users that drive cars.

So what's the big deal if it's made legal or not?

If you make it legal, it will be more common.

For christs sake, lighten up. Smoking a joint ain't never hurt no one, ain't never gonna.

That's a lie. Just simply a lie. What about greedo626's friends, eh? Didn't "smoking a joint" really hurt their lives? Or what about the millions of others who has ruined their lives by "smoking a joint"?

And what's up with this "smoking pot makes you act childish" thing?

A fact. But if you don't belive it, that's your problem. If you really trust a few guys, who has no medical education, saying pot doesn't harm you in any way instead of beliving all the thousands of doctors who know perfectly well the mental damages pot does, then that's your problem. I'll guess you'll soon say stabbing yourself in the stomach with a knife doesn't do any harm.

Who the hell do you smoke with?

That's the point, I'm not dumb enough to smoke.

ShockV1.89
03-11-2003, 10:39 AM
Off topic, but...

...And Jesus responded to ShockV1.89, "Whence forth, you shall abstain from attending church without wearing your giants hat and wielding a sippy cup full of coconut rum. The man who does not fulfill this divine mandate shall find himself in the company of Satan. This is the word of the lord."

:D :D :D

griff38
03-11-2003, 11:17 AM
I am shocked at the intolerance of today.
and am amazed how much people think they know.


The only substances I currently use to alter my consciousness are caffiene, chocolate, and sometimes wine with dinner.

ShockV1.89
03-11-2003, 01:11 PM
So we can take the examples we have here of people who have done various forms of drugs and came out ok... and compare them to those who didnt...

Which one outnumbers the other?

El Sitherino
03-11-2003, 01:22 PM
i agree with shock i think most of the people who actually did the stuff and came out fine. also the people you non users give examples to usually had problems of will power before they did weed and other drugs.

Breton
03-11-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
So we can take the examples we have here of people who have done various forms of drugs and came out ok... and compare them to those who didnt...

Which one outnumbers the other?

People who didn't come out ok would be in a pretty bad condition, so it's not strange that none of them are here.

C'jais
03-11-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
People who didn't come out ok would be in a pretty bad condition, so it's not strange that none of them are here.

Yes, but it does prove that many people can take drugs and still be ok.

Pot is no worse than beer, and I do think the government could control it better, were it legalized.

Then again, if it was legalized, more drug related accidents would probably increase, so I'm pretty neutral to this right now.

ShockV1.89
03-11-2003, 01:50 PM
Actually, my point was that even though there are people in the world who took drugs and came out ok, there are probably more who didnt.

Guess I didnt word that properly.

C'jais
03-11-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Actually, my point was that even though there are people in the world who took drugs and came out ok, there are probably more who didnt.

With regards to "hard" drugs such as heroin, cocaine etc, you're probably right.

But are any of you aware of just how many people smoke the cannabis, and who are able to lead perfectly normal lives?

ShockV1.89
03-11-2003, 02:28 PM
Smoke it regularly? I dont know, I dont live their lives. I do know the ones I've seen drilled their lives right into the dirt once they started doing it a lot. I can only go on my own experience...

I dont question its addictiveness. It's not. I do question anything that might lead to someone ruining their lives, and my experience shows me that once people pick up weed, their lives go down the crapper.

C'jais
03-11-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
I dont question its addictiveness. It's not. I do question anything that might lead to someone ruining their lives, and my experience shows me that once people pick up weed, their lives go down the crapper.

Fair enough.

In a recent poll, 25% of my country's youth admitted to smoking cannabis. We're obviously f*cked.

greedo626
03-11-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
and my experience shows me that once people pick up weed, their lives go down the crapper.

one of my "friends" after smoking weed, wrapped his car around a tree on his way home from a "pot party." he was going nearly 80 mph. so just like alcohol, pot does impair you're judgement. but unlike alcohol, it only takes a little pot to do alot of damage.

C'jais
03-11-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by greedo626
it only takes a little pot to do alot of damage.

A few grams of concentrated nicotine is enough to kill you.

Same goes for caffeine, or so I've heard.

greedo626
03-11-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
A few grams of concentrated nicotine is enough to kill you.

Same goes for caffeine, or so I've heard.

alcohol too.

but I can't understand why anyone would drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes or weed or anything for that matter. I'm confounded by some of the things people will drink or inhale:confused:

Luc Solar
03-11-2003, 03:21 PM
Seen anyone who's life has gone down the drain because of using too much alcohol? :rolleyes:
Drunkards are all over the place, everywhere.

Alcohol is addictive. Tobacco is addictive. Sex is addictive. Drugs are addictive.

Some people lack willpower, it's that simple.

Legalising drugs would bring us more problems. One of the major points is that drugs are insanely expensive atm and if you do heavy drugs, you won't be working (earning) much.

Take a wild guess: of all the stolen car stereos, how many were stolen just because some loser needed money for drugs? 90%? 95%?

C'jais
03-11-2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
One of the major points is that drugs are insanely expensive atm and if you do heavy drugs, you won't be working (earning) much.

Take a guess as to why drugs are so expensive.

Drug lords could charge 2000$ for a hit, and those losers would still pay it.

El Sitherino
03-11-2003, 03:53 PM
actually i used to smoke cigarettes they arent addictive. i havent smoked a cigarette in 4 years. weed i smoke because first i enjoy it and second it helps me with my adhd. i used to get it with a prescription until bush made all forms of marijuana illegal in texas.

munik
03-11-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
As there are LOADS of more people driving cars than the amount using pot, that argument doesn't fit at all. And I belive there is quite few of the drug users that drive cars.You missed my point. The whole point of the propaganda is to find a negative group of people, or negative act, and associate it with marijuana by saying those who do the negative act also do marijuana. But that in no way means that those who do marijuana also do the negative act. I was being sarcastic with the car comment. Of course that would not be true, as driving a car isn't a negative act. But lets just say that most child molestors smoked marijuana. Then it could be said that smoking marijuana will make you molest children. Well, that's entirely untrue. Just as the "gateway drug" statement has no basis of truth either. That is how propaganda works, by spreading half-truths and preying on the those who do not wish to think for themselves.


If you make it legal, it will be more common.Yep, more common then common. Would that make it super common? I'm saying that it doesn't matter either way, legal or not, it's always gonna be there, easily accesible in almost any clime.



A fact. But if you don't belive it, that's your problem. If you really trust a few guys, who has no medical education, saying pot doesn't harm you in any way instead of beliving all the thousands of doctors who know perfectly well the mental damages pot does, then that's your problem. I'll guess you'll soon say stabbing yourself in the stomach with a knife doesn't do any harm.Ok, it's a fact. Maybe you could describe what "childish" means in this sense. I'm suprised that thousands of doctors could only come up with the word "childish" as the best description. Sounds more like an insult to me, rather then a scientific opinion.

I know saying marijuana didn't hurt anyone was a false statement. Just trying to get my point across in a poor manner.

I'm not saying that there aren't downsides to smoking weed. Yeah, if you do it on a consistent basis, you'll end up an unmotivated slob. I don't really believe there are long term effects concerning brain function with moderate use of marijuana, after these users stop using. While they are still smoking on a regular (daily) basis, I could see that might be true. But not so bad in my opinion. I'm pointing out that weed isn't the scourge of the planet. Sure, there are some negative things that result from it. But nothing on the epic scale that some of you would have us believe. Yeah, some people crap their lives away on weed. You may know them, and I believe you when you say they have ruined their lives. But I have never seen anyone "ruin" their lives with marijuana. Hell, I've done lotsa drugs, with lotsa people, and I don't really think I've seen too many people ruin their lives because of drugs. That would be because I don't hang out with the scum of the earth. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that I distance myself from those who are prone to that. Because these people have more problems then just drugs. Yet you associate all the negative aspects of their lives with the common thing: marijuana. Sort of like that propaganda thing I explained at the beginning of this post.



That's the point, I'm not dumb enough to smoke. Yes, I figured that out. That statement meant you are pretty opinionated about something you have no experience with, and the only knowledge of it is force fed to you. I'm not trying to sway you to believe marijuana is good. I could care less which way you lean. But you might as well be on the payroll for the DEA with all the crap you spread here.





You like that sig Shock? :) That has to be one of the funniest things I've read in a long time, I just had to put it there.

ShockV1.89
03-11-2003, 09:18 PM
:lol: I do believe I've misjudged you, Munik. You aight, son, you aight!

Kinnopio?
03-11-2003, 11:37 PM
I don't understand why so many people are so closed-minded.

As far as I know, smoking weed causes a buildup of THC around brain cells that control memory. The buildup is naturally cleaned up over a period of time (not more than a month.) If you smoked way too much- over half an ounce a day for a month - the buildup would be too much and it would kill some of the cells. No one smokes that much, so it doesn't harm, or permanently affect, your brain.

Whether or not it causes cancer is still being debated, but as far as I know it is not as bad as cigs here. It is certainly harmful to your lungs- you are breathing in flaming material after all- but again, as far as I know, it's not nearly as harmful as cigarettes, which have tar and artificial additives. The worst you are likely to get is bronchitis and/or a smoker's cough.

Marijuana has many uses as a medicine as well. It calms spasming muscles and settles upset stomachs. It gives an appetite to cancer patients who would normally throw up whatever they ate. For more information: http://www.medmjscience.org/Pages/reports/nihpt1.html

There is no evidence that it is physically addictive. Of course it is mentally addictive to some people. So is anything. When playing games you are harming yourself as well- sitting inside on your ass for hours on end is detrimental to your health. Eating bacon cheeseburgers is unhealthy too.

You may know that cocaine releases dopamine, giving a happy, contented feeling. Dopamine is the 'reward' your body gives for eating, having sex, and other things. So by eating you are rewarded with a 'buzz'.

--------------

Enough about the physical properties of it- I prefer to talk about the principle of prohibition. I believe that my body is my own and I should be able to do whatever I want as long as it does not harm others. Fast food is bad for me, but I still can choose what to eat. Why can't I choose to smoke weed?

It's fun, and pretty harmless. I'll do what I want with my own body.

I have to finish this up so I'll end by saying that weed does affect judgement and reaction time so you shouldn't drive while high.

ShadowTemplar
03-12-2003, 11:07 AM
*jumps in without having read the entire thread (yeah, I know that it's a bad habit)*

Never did drink, smoke, or do drugs other than pharmaceutics like antibiotics and headache cures, and I even keep those to a minimum (everything has side effects, and every pain has a cause, so if you can sit out the headache instead of taking a pill, or even better find out what hurts and why and solve the problem, then that's better than taking a pill). Not saying that you should never use headache pills, it's just that nine times out of ten it's unnessecary.[/unnessecairily long rant with too few periods]

I find the taste of ethanol and smoke off-putting. Drugs are illegal, and in extreme cases cause insanity (which I find to be the most scary disease that exists). That's my motivation... Oh and not being in control of my own mind (related to the above comment on (in)sanity). I'm addicted to being a sentient creature.

ET Warrior
03-13-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Kinnopio?

Whether or not it causes cancer is still being debated, but as far as I know it is not as bad as cigs here. It is certainly harmful to your lungs- you are breathing in flaming material after all- but again, as far as I know, it's not nearly as harmful as cigarettes, which have tar and artificial additives. The worst you are likely to get is bronchitis and/or a smoker's cough.

Marijuana has many uses as a medicine as well. It calms spasming muscles and settles upset stomachs. It gives an appetite to cancer patients who would normally throw up whatever they ate. For more information:


You may know that cocaine releases dopamine, giving a happy, contented feeling. Dopamine is the 'reward' your body gives for eating, having sex, and other things. So by eating you are rewarded with a 'buzz'.



Ooooh, so many things to nitpick, sooo in need of sleep, so i'll try to keep this short.
First of all, it has been proven that one marijuana cig does as much damage to the lungs as around 5 tobacco cigs. I think that was on CNN.com, but I don't really want to look up the article, maybe some other time when i'm not tired, so basically you're messing up your lungs pretty bad whenever you smoke marijuana.
Secondly, for nearly EVERY medical use for marijuana there is a legal prescription drug without the same side-effects that'll match it. The only thing that makes marijuana somewhat unique is with cancer patients, making them hungry to eat after chemo-therapy.
Eating, while it may give me a "buzz" is necessary for me to LIVE, and coccaine is both mentally AND physically addictive, and it does damage to your mind and body.
There, i kept that pretty darn short.....

munik
03-13-2003, 08:53 PM
Marijuana will not cause lung cancer or damage your lungs. Smoking marijuana is what does that. Because the delivery system has negative effects in no way means the drug causes those negative effects.

That's like saying heroin causes abcesses. That's not true, it's the needle that does that.

Cocaine can really screw your nose and sinuses up if you snort it all the time. But that in no way indicates a side effect of cocaine. You could stick it up your ass to get high and then you would not have nose problems.

Pointing out negative effects associated with the method in which you choose to take a drug is a lame scare tactic.


Originally posted by ET Warrior
Secondly, for nearly EVERY medical use for marijuana there is a legal prescription drug without the same side-effects that'll match it.
That's a tough choice. Do I take the prescription drug to relieve this headache, even though the side effects can be blurry vision, nose bleeds, and stomach cramps. Or do I smoke a joint, even though the side effects can cause me to have one hell of a good time? Jeez, which one is the lesser of two evils?

ET Warrior
03-13-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by munik
Marijuana will not cause lung cancer or damage your lungs. Smoking marijuana is what does that. Because the delivery system has negative effects in no way means the drug causes those negative effects.




That's a tough choice. Do I take the prescription drug to relieve this headache, even though the side effects can be blurry vision, nose bleeds, and stomach cramps. Or do I smoke a joint, even though the side effects can cause me to have one hell of a good time? Jeez, which one is the lesser of two evils?

And eating tobacco isn't going to give me lung cancer either...I was simply assuming they were talking about smoking marijuana, sorry, I'll be more specific next time.


And I dont know, but I've NEVER gotten blurry vision, nose bleeds, or stomach cramps from taking prescription anything..

munik
03-13-2003, 11:07 PM
Probaly are talking about smoking it. You can eat it, too, but that's about it for ingesting it. Most smoke I reckon. I just made the argument solely on marijuana, I thought that was what we were talking about. We could assume most people buy their marijuana from someone else, so a listed negative side effect of marijuana could be interacting with drug dealers. I'm just saying that there are an abundance of ancillary negative effects associated with marijuana. But they are seperate, not directly caused by the drug. Just trying to keep it clear.


And those side effects aren't for one real drug, they are an amalgam of some side effects I hear on TV for those prescription drug comericials.

Echuu Shen-Jon
03-15-2003, 09:52 AM
It sometimes seem, as I were the only one in my class (7th), who haven't been drunk. Later, maybe, I'll sometimes sit and drink some beer, but I will never touch drugs!

Darth Groovy
03-26-2003, 01:55 PM
Ok, Just to clearify....

Yes I drink, in moderation. Alcohol is legal, and I am 28 years of age. I can drink what I want, when I want, yet I use discresion. I only drink after my workday is complete, or on my off days. And sometimes I go days without anything because I tire of it. Point is, if you are of legal age, drinking is still within the rhelm of the law. Plus you go into a grocery store and buy alcohol, you don't go into any store and buy drugs. To do drugs you need a perscription from a doctor. I know, I had some codeine once perscribed for a insatiable ear-ache I had once. Knocked me out for days, during which I was in LA LA land. However Doctors go to medical school so that they perscribe the proper dose of such addictive drugs. I have known people that go addicted to Zanex, don't get me started on that bit. I seen people get it from they're doctors and sell it to each other. Jeezum Crow....

I still do not see the attraction with pot. If the stuff was legal, and in the stores, would anyone even bother? Or would they rather buy some crack on the street from somebody named "C-Dawg"? Yeah these people are pharmasists..... Remember that the FDA is here for a reason folks. Whenever you smoke or inject an illegal substance, you do not have any fancy Gov't regulations to observer the poison you put into your system. Or is that the real thrill....isn't it? I'll take my chances on a Gin and Tonic any day of the week, at least I know what is in it......

XERXES
03-26-2003, 04:03 PM
As far as drugs goes, i used to abuse them (to an extent)

I still drink fairly often, usually every other weekend (but never to get drunk)

As far as drug use went, i used Acid/LSD the most, Mushrooms, Marijuana(not a lot though, i didnt like smoking things that much), DMT (same with marajuana, didnt like smoking it...but its different). The worse mistake of my life...i used Datura, if you dont know what it is...dont bother asking because i WILL NOT tell you.

i believe the only reason drugs are illegal is because sometimes(most of the times actually) people are just simply too stupid to be responsible enough to use them thats why.

And by the way, ive been drug free for 6 some months now.

XERXES
03-26-2003, 04:09 PM
Also, a LOT of what you guys hear nowadays(some people even said a few things that are BS)...are myths created by DARE programs or Police departments to get kids to not use drugs.

Like i said before...their illegal because of people being irresponsible users, its a law to protect ourselves from ourselves.

Breton
03-26-2003, 04:30 PM
I quote from a book I have.

*ahem*

"Stoffer som gir endrete sanse- og tankeopplevelser, det vil si hallusinasjoner, er blant annet hasj, marihuana og LSD. Disse stoffene forandrer personligheten og påvirker i første rekke tanker og følelser og våre opplevelser av sanseintrykk. Misbrukere har omkommet fordi de har trodd at de kunne fly eller gjøre andre halsbrekkende handlinger. Et typisk trekk hos hasjrøykere er at han blir sløv og etter hvert uinteressert i verden rundt seg. Virkelighetsoppfatningen og evnen til å lære blir redusert gradvis og snikende. "

C'jais
03-26-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
I quote from a book I have.

*ahem*

Intended for me specifically? :p

"Stoffer som gir endrete sanse- og tankeopplevelser, det vil si hallusinasjoner,

I didn't know hash could make you hallucinate, but if you overdose, I suspect it might.

er blant annet hasj, marihuana og LSD. Disse stoffene forandrer personligheten

That's a bit vague. Getting a car of your own is also reported as having changed a person's personality.

Et typisk trekk hos hasjrøykere er at han blir sløv og etter hvert uinteressert i verden rundt seg. Virkelighetsoppfatningen og evnen til å lære blir redusert gradvis og snikende. "

The same could be said for alcoholics and people overdosing on sleeping pills. Take drugs in moderation, like everything else.

Luc Solar
03-26-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
"Stoffer som gir endrete sanse- og tankeopplevelser, det vil si hallusinasjoner, er blant annet hasj, marihuana og LSD. Disse stoffene forandrer personligheten og påvirker i første rekke tanker og følelser og våre opplevelser av sanseintrykk. Misbrukere har omkommet fordi de har trodd at de kunne fly eller gjøre andre halsbrekkende handlinger. Et typisk trekk hos hasjrøykere er at han blir sløv og etter hvert uinteressert i verden rundt seg. Virkelighetsoppfatningen og evnen til å lære blir redusert gradvis og snikende. "

Ummm, yeah...that's exactly what I was thinking.. so how 'bout those Lakers? :rolleyes:


Seriously: reading that stuff is like reading the ramblings of a very drunk horribly dyslexic Swede. :p

XERXES
03-26-2003, 05:00 PM
after using LSD the first time back when i was about 15 i could deffinately tell i had changed personality wise. I sensed the world in a different way that i was used to. Its weird.


edit: i cant even smoke weed anymore (even if i had the desire to do so) because it brings back nostalgia from tripping on LSD. It brings back scarry memories, imagees, feelings, thoughts that i simply dont want to experience anymore...

Breton
03-26-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by C'jais

I didn't know hash could make you hallucinate, but if you overdose, I suspect it might.
[/B]

I don't think it'll need an overdose. You probably won't get it if you only use a little, but if you use it fairly lot, then...

That's a bit vague. Getting a car of your own is also reported as having changed a person's personality.

But mostly not to the worse.

The same could be said for alcoholics and people overdosing on sleeping pills. Take drugs in moderation, like everything else.

Do you think people care if you ask them nicely to use it with moderation? Alcohol is abused quite a lot, yes, and people are overdosing on sleeping pills, yes. But that's not a reason to let people abuse drugs.


And at the last, I would just like to say a few words. If you make "lighter" drugs legal, then it is more likely that people will try them, yes? And if people try them, it is likely that they will do it again. And if they've done it two times, it is even more likely they will do it again, because if you use it, you'll get used to it, and it's not scary anymore, it's just "cool". So the drug users will do it more times. And more often. Often more drugs. And they will damage the brain beyond repair. And of course, people do lots of stupid things when using high amounts of these "lighter" drugs. I may mention an 11-year old girl who was killed by a person high on pot. The highness was the reason for the murder. And not only that, we know perfectly well that the "lighter" drugs often leads to heavier drugs, wich causes deaths all the time, and of course permanent damage to your body.

Vuk
03-28-2003, 07:48 AM
My opinion, is that here in Denmark, teh weed should be legalized. Prefferably in a kind of coffeeshop or systembolaget way. Holland did it and they havent gone completly banana split... yet :) . It is already pretty easy to get teh weed her in Denmark, thank to glorious christania. I dont consider weed as dangerous, or at least not as dangerous as alcohol.
Am i right in saying some1 who has drinking, is generaly more violent, then somebody who has smoked a couple o joints.

tictoc
03-28-2003, 11:25 AM
:atat: I've been taking drugs for the past 3 years OCASIONALY. People u shouldn't make such a big deal out of something that isn't that bad. As long ur responsable enough to take things morderately and look after urself, then u usually have a good time:bdroid2:

Darth Groovy
03-28-2003, 02:25 PM
Shannon Hoon, (lead singer of Blind Melon)

Layne Staley, (lead singer of Alice In Chains)

Rudolph Dwayne Goettell, (core member of Skinny Puppy)

munik
03-28-2003, 08:57 PM
Dude, I could fill 10 pages here in this post with dead peoples names, and not one of them died of drugs.


JM Qui-Gon Jinn
And at the last, I would just like to say a few words. If you make "lighter" drugs legal, then it is more likely that people will try them, yes? And if people try them, it is likely that they will do it again. And if they've done it two times, it is even more likely they will do it again, because if you use it, you'll get used to it, and it's not scary anymore, it's just "cool". So the drug users will do it more times. And more often. Often more drugs. And they will damage the brain beyond repair.This is an assumption of your own. Someone will do it again if they like it. They won't do it again just because they did it once. That makes no sense. And of course, people do lots of stupid things when using high amounts of these "lighter" drugs. I may mention an 11-year old girl who was killed by a person high on pot. The highness was the reason for the murder.Maybe you could also mention the court that allowed the defense attorney to use "high on pot" as a defense. Or is this another assumption as well? And not only that, we know perfectly well that the "lighter" drugs often leads to heavier drugs, wich causes deaths all the time, and of course permanent damage to your body."lighter" drugs don't lead to heavier drugs. You made that up, or are repeating crap made up by someone else. You can't assume everyone knows perfectly well a lie. Well, I guess you can, since you seem to assume alot of stuff. But someone who is trying to debate or prove a point can't use inane and obviously false information, unless you believe we are all retards or that this is some DARE seminar and we are all children.


XERXES
after using LSD the first time back when i was about 15 i could deffinately tell i had changed personality wise. I sensed the world in a different way that i was used to. Its weird.
I think I changed, at least in my head, after I took hallucinigens. I like to call it the opening of my third eye. A positive experience, everytime, in my belief. But not one I would recomend for someone who is young, as I think 15 is too young, but that is only my personal opinion.

Breton
03-28-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by munik
This is an assumption of your own. Someone will do it again if they like it. They won't do it again just because they did it once. That makes no sense.

If they have done it once, they won't be fearing doing it again. And again. And again. And again.

Maybe you could also mention the court that allowed the defense attorney to use "high on pot" as a defense. Or is this another assumption as well?

Luckily, in this country, being high is no defense in such cases. But we know perfectly well that it was the reason, however.

"lighter" drugs don't lead to heavier drugs. You made that up, or are repeating crap made up by someone else. You can't assume everyone knows perfectly well a lie. Well, I guess you can, since you seem to assume alot of stuff. But someone who is trying to debate or prove a point can't use inane and obviously false information, unless you believe we are all retards or that this is some DARE seminar and we are all children.

I have my information from people who have studied medicine for at least ten years. You have your "information" completely from what you want to belive, as you have nothing to back it up. Who is assuming things? Certainly not me. If you belive my information is false, then come with anything to back your statements instead of just saying "You are wrong, I am right". You belive precisely what you want to belive, and I can't change it. I have nothing to gain by telling lies, neither has the goverment. All the people I have seen that think all this is lies, have something to gain by doing that.

Darth Groovy
03-28-2003, 10:09 PM
Yeah but when people OD all the time from drugs, it is not lies.

munik
03-28-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
I have my information from people who have studied medicine for at least ten years. You have your "information" completely from what you want to belive, as you have nothing to back it up. Who is assuming things? Certainly not me. If you belive my information is false, then come with anything to back your statements instead of just saying "You are wrong, I am right". You belive precisely what you want to belive, and I can't change it. I have nothing to gain by telling lies, neither has the goverment. All the people I have seen that think all this is lies, have something to gain by doing that.
I never said I was right about anything. Just that you are wrong. As for having something to back it up, I already made a post stating the fallacy of "pot is a gateway drug" when you previously made this false statement. It takes a bold man to say I have nothing backing it up when anyone who has read this thread knows I already did that. I'm surprised that you actually want me to "back up" my refutations. You know, because you will never give us a reliable source for any of the garbage you post. Oh, you can say stuff like "thousands of doctors" and "studied medicine for at least ten years". But that doesn't show me anything. Give me a source, hell, lets go crazy and give me two reliable sources backing up any of the claims you make.


As I've said before, I'm not trying to prove to you that any drug is good. I'm just pointing out to those that you are preaching to that your information isn't entirely correct. If that bothers you, prove me wrong. Show everyone where, or rather who, you got this information from. 'Cause god knows you didn't gather this information yourself. In fact, you have nothing but second hand stories and no experiences to relate to us. You are a plethora of non-existant knowledge. It's like that game where everyone sits in a circle, and one person whispers a story into anothers ear, and then he turns to the next person and whispers the story, and so on. Then at the end the story gets told out loud, and then compared to the original, and everyone gets a laugh at all the mutations of it. You are nothing but a person in the middle, mutating the story as you pass it along.

You may have nothing to gain by telling lies, but that sure as sh*t isn't stopping you.

Darth Groovy
03-28-2003, 10:53 PM
Both of you need to chill out right now.

That being said, I agree that both of you need to start hyperlinking some sources to back your arguments.

My experience comes from the people who have fallen around me. I lived with a girl that did drugs. I cleaned her up and helped her start over, then she fell into drugs again and now she is dead, and left a daughter behind. I think that is a reputible source enough. And alot of my favorite bands do drugs, and somebody always dies too. This is why I choose not to do them. If I die, I would rather get hit by a bus, or shot in the back of the head. I am not going to die, by showing others that I lost a battle to subtance abuse.

_Groovy

munik
03-28-2003, 11:11 PM
I have no argument to link to. I'm just pointing out errors by highliting the errouneous statements. I'm good like that.

I've known people who have died from drugs as well. I've known some scummy people who have done drugs, too. I am not saying that you are wrong for not doing drugs for this reason, just that in general this is not a very stable argument to not do drugs. People don't don't die from doing drugs the right way. It's called overdosing, not correctdosing. Drugs don't make you do anything, people make concious choices to do the scummy things they do when they take drugs. If you decide to put fault into whatever drug you were currently taking when you performed whatever stupid action you did, you were not mentally mature enough to take that drug. If you cannot accept responsiblity for your actions, not only are you too mentally immature to take any drugs, you most likely should not be allowed to function in society. So sayeth Munik.

El Sitherino
03-28-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by munik
I have no argument to link to. I'm just pointing out errors by highliting the errouneous statements. I'm good like that.

I've known people who have died from drugs as well. I've known some scummy people who have done drugs, too. I am not saying that you are wrong for not doing drugs for this reason, just that in general this is not a very stable argument to not do drugs. People don't don't die from doing drugs the right way. It's called overdosing, not correctdosing. Drugs don't make you do anything, people make concious choices to do the scummy things they do when they take drugs. If you decide to put fault into whatever drug you were currently taking when you performed whatever stupid action you did, you were not mentally mature enough to take that drug. If you cannot accept responsiblity for your actions, not only are you too mentally immature to take any drugs, you most likely should not be allowed to function in society. So sayeth Munik. W3RD. munik knows quite a bit. the people that die are dead because, as in their medical reports, they overdosed on the drug. granted the hard drugs like cocaine and heroine are dangerous but only depending on how you take them. if you snort kool-aid your nose will bleed. its not the drug itself but the method and the amount you take. weed though isnt much of a harmful drug. its not as bad as people say. actually my friend who works at Parsons Medical College has done a study and it showed that if anything 4 cigarettes = 1 joint. (pure joint) many of the people that died smoking weed had joints laced with crack which is dangerous.

munik
03-28-2003, 11:59 PM
Dangerous, but oh so much fun.

El Sitherino
03-29-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by munik
Dangerous, but oh so much fun. yeah kinda like driving or riding an airplane ;P

XERXES
03-30-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
Yeah but when people OD all the time from drugs, it is not lies. when a person ODs on smack or crack or other drugs that you can OD on easily...its partilly the users fault. Yes I know that smack can kill you even the first time you use it...but it still has something to do with the user. Are they responsible enough to take only non-lethal doses, if they are dumb enough to snort lines of smack or meth or coke or whatever all night and OD on it...fine by me.

Most people who die when they are rolling (on X) it is because they are at a rave party or whatever...and their body becomes physically weak and dehydrated because they are rolling and they have all that energey or whatever i dunno.

Lots of other drugs you cant OD on, pot for example...youd have to smoke so much of it, it just becomes unrealistic, it just isnt possible.

my final word: if your gona use drugs...use them responsibly. please.

Breton
03-31-2003, 09:51 AM
http://www.teen-anon.iwarp.com/marijuana.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/moreharmful.jsp

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/schizophrenia.jsp

http://www.geocities.com/healthmoon/smoking-marijuana/diseases.htm

http://library.thinkquest.org/J002597/marijuana.htm?tqskip1=1&tqtime=0331

And especially this one:
http://www.amsa.org/resource/natlinit/marijuana.cfm

Darth Groovy
03-31-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by munik
I have no argument to link to. I'm just pointing out errors by highliting the errouneous statements. I'm good like that.

I've known people who have died from drugs as well. I've known some scummy people who have done drugs, too. I am not saying that you are wrong for not doing drugs for this reason, just that in general this is not a very stable argument to not do drugs. People don't don't die from doing drugs the right way. It's called overdosing, not correctdosing. Drugs don't make you do anything, people make concious choices to do the scummy things they do when they take drugs. If you decide to put fault into whatever drug you were currently taking when you performed whatever stupid action you did, you were not mentally mature enough to take that drug. If you cannot accept responsiblity for your actions, not only are you too mentally immature to take any drugs, you most likely should not be allowed to function in society. So sayeth Munik.

It is not like that vile of crack or tab of acid comes with directions on the back for correct dosage.

The Vikings used to dose heavily on ergot, a fungus that grows on trees. They would eat this stuff and piss it into a bowl and drink it, because it enhanced the effect of the dose.

Then they used to go on killing and raping sprees. Sound healthy to you?

XERXES
03-31-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
http://www.teen-anon.iwarp.com/marijuana.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/moreharmful.jsp

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/marijuana/schizophrenia.jsp

http://www.geocities.com/healthmoon/smoking-marijuana/diseases.htm

http://library.thinkquest.org/J002597/marijuana.htm?tqskip1=1&tqtime=0331

And especially this one:
http://www.amsa.org/resource/natlinit/marijuana.cfm http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

the real deal...seriously.


and befoer you go ranting on about how weed is bad...tobacco is just as bad (worse IMO), yet its legal.

http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/tobacco.htm

What are the long-term effects of smoking tobacco?

Tobacco and smoking cause long-term damage to your health and can kill. Smoking causes chest problems, cancer, infertility and heart disease. Smoking may also lead to an earlier menopause.

Lung cancer is the cancer most associated with smoking. Lung cancer kills more people than any other type of cancer and at least 80% of these deaths are caused by smoking. However, there are other types of cancer, which can be caused by smoking, these include: cancer of the mouth, lip and throat, cervical cancer, anal cancer, pancreatic cancer, bladder cancer and leukaemia.

Tobacco contributes to at least 2000 limb amputations each year. Smoking will also raise your blood cholesterol levels and blood pressure and these 2 factors are the main 2 reasons why people get coronary heart disease. Smoking accounts for 30,000 heart disease deaths in the U.K. every year.

http://www.smith.edu/ourhealthourfutures/tobacco.html






i may have smoked weed quite a lot in my past...but i am damn proud to say that i have never smoked a cigarette.

munik
03-31-2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Darth Groovy
It is not like that vile of crack or tab of acid comes with directions on the back for correct dosage.

The Vikings used to dose heavily on ergot, a fungus that grows on trees. They would eat this stuff and piss it into a bowl and drink it, because it enhanced the effect of the dose.

Then they used to go on killing and raping sprees. Sound healthy to you? You're right, drugs don't come with directions. That doesn't mean a person is free of fault when they take too much. I learn about drugs before I take them. I search for information, and ask for information. I do not give anyone drugs without clear warnings of the effects, side effects, dosage, etc. If someone does not care about being informed of the drug they plan to take, then they do not care about any negative effects that may come from taking said drug. Ignorance is not an excuse.

As for your Vikings and ergot, sounds like a completely fabricated story. Without even verifying, just off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that ergot is a mold that appears on rye bread. It is also a source of lsd-25. While eating moldy rye bread isn't a good idea to get stoned, it will most likely make you trip. But the negative side effects are not worth it, especially since it is much easier to buy lsd-25 in its isolated form. And as for drinking the piss, the only time I have ever heard of this is of eskimos(I know this isn't exact) in northern asia maybe that eat the fly agaric mushroom. They then drink their piss because the chemical that gets them high does so by altering something in the brain, then that chemical passes out of the system. So drinking your piss would be like taking another dose. But in the real world, people can just go and buy or get another dose, it's not necessary to drink your own piss. Also, one shouldn't eat the fly agaric, it's dangerous.

XERXES, I am an avid reader of the vaults of erowid, but I won't put the link here as I know most people who disagree with me won't believe what's there. Shared knowledge regarding drugs is a great source for clearing up any ignorance, but when you have been brainwashed your whole life it is hard to change, and only those who are above the level of sheep will be enlightened.

XERXES
03-31-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by munik
XERXES, I am an avid reader of the vaults of erowid, but I won't put the link here as I know most people who disagree with me won't believe what's there. Shared knowledge regarding drugs is a great source for clearing up any ignorance, but when you have been brainwashed your whole life it is hard to change, and only those who are above the level of sheep will be enlightened.
http://www.neoicaria.com/~steve/bowdown.gif

Breton
04-01-2003, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by XERXES
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

the real deal...seriously.


and befoer you go ranting on about how weed is bad...tobacco is just as bad (worse IMO), yet its legal.

http://www.homehealth-uk.com/medical/tobacco.htm



http://www.smith.edu/ourhealthourfutures/tobacco.html






i may have smoked weed quite a lot in my past...but i am damn proud to say that i have never smoked a cigarette.

I do belive tobacco should be banned anyway. But marijuana is worse:

"Marijuana cigarettes contain four to five times as much of certain cancer-causing substances as tobacco cigarettes. "

"As marijuana is inhaled and held in the lungs, repeated use can damage the lungs and heart. Marijuana users may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have, such as chronic bronchitis and inflamed sinuses. While all of the long-term effects of marijuana use are not yet known, there are studies showing serious health concerns. For example, a group of scientists in California examined the health status of 450 daily smokers of marijuana but not tobacco. They found that the marijuana smokers had more sick days and more doctor visits for respiratory problems and other types of illness than did a similar group who did not smoke either substance. As to long-term effects of marijuana use, findings so far show that the regular use of marijuana or THC may play a role in cancer and problems in the respiratory, immune, and nervous systems."

"Smoking marijuana causes some changes in the brain that are like those caused by cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. Some researchers believe that these changes may put a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs, such as cocaine or heroin. Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs."

"Many researchers fear that marijuana damages brain cells, and the long-term effects are still being researched. In laboratory research, scientists found that high doses of THC given to young rats caused a loss of brain cells such as that seen with aging. At 11 or 12 months of age (about half their normal life span), the rats' brains looked like those of animals in old age. It is not known whether a similar effect occurs in humans. Researchers are still learning about the many ways that marijuana could affect the brain."

"Scientists do not yet know how the use of marijuana relates to mental illness. Some researchers in Sweden report that regular, long-term intake of THC (from cannabis) can increase the risk of developing certain mental diseases, such as schizophrenia. Others maintain that regular marijuana use can lead to chronic anxiety, personality disturbances, and depression. Some frequent, long-term marijuana users show signs of a lack of motivation (amotivational syndrome). Their problems include not caring about what happens in their lives, no desire to work regularly, fatigue, and a lack of concern about how they look. As a result of these symptoms, some users tend to perform poorly in school or at work."

"Marijuana has adverse effects on many of the skills for driving a car. Driving while high can lead to car accidents. This is because marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and reaction time. These effects can last up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and sounds on the road. There is data showing that marijuana can play an important role in crashes. When users combine marijuana with alcohol, as they often do, the hazards of driving can be more severe than with either drug alone.

A study of patients in a shock-trauma unit who had been in traffic accidents revealed that 15 percent of those who had been driving a car or motorcycle had been smoking marijuana, and another 17 percent had both THC and alcohol in their blood. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine. Data also show that while smoking marijuana, people show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had too much to drink."

"Doctors advise pregnant women not to use any drugs because they might harm the growing fetus. One animal study has linked marijuana use to loss of the fetus very early in pregnancy. Some scientific studies have found that babies born to marijuana users were shorter, weighed less, and had smaller head sizes than those born to mothers who did not use the drug. Smaller babies are more likely to develop health problems. Other scientists have found effects of marijuana that resemble the features of fetal alcohol syndrome. There are also research findings that show nervous system problems in children of
mothers who smoked marijuana.

Researchers are not certain whether a newborn baby's health problems, if they are caused by marijuana, will continue as the child grows. Preliminary research shows that children born to mothers who used marijuana regularly during pregnancy may have trouble concentrating. When a nursing mother uses marijuana, some of the THC is passed to the baby in her breast milk. This is a matter for concern, since the THC in the mother's milk is much more concentrated than that in the mother's blood. One study has shown that the use of marijuana by a mother during the first month of breastfeeding can impair the infant's motor development (control of muscle movement)."



And especially note this: "For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.". Not leading to harder drugs, eh?

Kinnopio?
04-01-2003, 07:33 PM
And especially note this: "For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.". Not leading to harder drugs, eh?

Nope, not leading to harder drugs. It's simply the easiest drug to get, and one of the first that people try. Before trying coke, almost every user tried pot. But most people who smoke pot don't try coke.

I'm not good at getting my point across through text.... but a nerd isn't going to try coke. It'll be someone who is connected to drugs somehow, and who doesn't have a problem with breaking the law or doing drugs. This person will likely have tried pot first because it's more easily available. This doesn't mean that most people who smoke pot will do coke.

Its funny that you think you know everything about something you've never done.

munik
04-01-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
I do belive tobacco should be banned anyway. But marijuana is worse:

"Marijuana cigarettes contain four to five times as much of certain cancer-causing substances as tobacco cigarettes. "
So one joint is equal to four cigarettes regarding cancer? So, if on average I smoke 10 cigarettes a day(I do), then I would have to smoke 2 1/2 joints a day as well to equal the cancer causing effects. In reality, I smoke a half a joint about every three days. Which would be equal to smoking 2 cigarettes every three days. So, if I smoked one, or none, cigarattes a day, I would hardly consider myself a smoker. At risk for cancer, sure, but not something that would be considered. What I'm saying is that most people don't smoke joints every hour or so. So the effect of maybe getting cancer from weed is so miniscule that it's not much to worry about.


Most of your paragraphs are filled with speculation, or opinion, and most of the tests were done on animals, not humans. I don't see any studies that are named, or any doctors. Just because you put quotation marks around the paragraphs does not mean those are reliable statements. For all we know you could have just typed those off the top of your head (but I know for sure that you didn't, as those paragraphs are filled with uncertain words, and I'm sure you would embellish with statements overflowing in surety). I could just copy/paste your post, and alter the paragraphs to the positive, and that should be equally as reliable, right?

Breton
04-02-2003, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by munik

Most of your paragraphs are filled with speculation, or opinion, and most of the tests were done on animals, not humans. I don't see any studies that are named, or any doctors. Just because you put quotation marks around the paragraphs does not mean those are reliable statements. For all we know you could have just typed those off the top of your head (but I know for sure that you didn't, as those paragraphs are filled with uncertain words, and I'm sure you would embellish with statements overflowing in surety). I could just copy/paste your post, and alter the paragraphs to the positive, and that should be equally as reliable, right?

I took them from this site: http://www.amsa.org/resource/natlinit/marijuana.cfm

Surely, the American Medical Student Association is more reliable than your non-excisting sources, is it not?

munik
04-02-2003, 04:20 PM
Ok, let me say this once again for you. I do not have any sources because I am not making any claims that need sources. I am merely pointing out the fallacy in your statements by using either A: The ability to see that most of your statements can be proven false by logic alone, and B: My own experience, which gives me the knowledge that you do not possess.

Now, as I have never heard of the American Medical Student Association before, I decided to check out that link. That article was written by Melisse Leung, a pre med student. She does not list any sources for the few studies she alludes to. It is no more then an opinion piece, a far cry from a real conclusive article. The AMSA is a student orginization that has chapters at many colleges. One of their prime goals is politcal activism. (http://www.amsa.org/member/recruiting_faqs.cfm) Basically encouraging the idealogy of it's student members.

Also, I found this on the AMSA website in the Preamble Purposes and Principles Regarding Use of Illegal Drugs, Alcohol and Tobacco (http://www.amsa.org/about/ppp/):

1. SUPPORTS the legislation of cannabis as a Schedule II drug for emperically validated medicinal
use in the most effective form for the individual; (1999)

2. SUPPORTS the legalization of cannabis for medicinal use in the most effective form for the
individual. (1999)

Doesn't sound like the AMSA has too much of a problem with marijuana.

I also find that an opinion article written by a college student that is posted on the website of a student orginization for political activism to hardly be a reliable source. There is in fact no support that I could find by the AMSA regarding Melisse Leung's article. This is just another example of you latching on to someone else's ideals and attempting to use them as support for your own twisted agenda against drug use.

Darth Groovy
04-03-2003, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by munik
You're right, drugs don't come with directions. That doesn't mean a person is free of fault when they take too much. I learn about drugs before I take them. I search for information, and ask for information. I do not give anyone drugs without clear warnings of the effects, side effects, dosage, etc. If someone does not care about being informed of the drug they plan to take, then they do not care about any negative effects that may come from taking said drug. Ignorance is not an excuse.

As for your Vikings and ergot, sounds like a completely fabricated story. Without even verifying, just off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that ergot is a mold that appears on rye bread. It is also a source of lsd-25. While eating moldy rye bread isn't a good idea to get stoned, it will most likely make you trip. But the negative side effects are not worth it, especially since it is much easier to buy lsd-25 in its isolated form. And as for drinking the piss, the only time I have ever heard of this is of eskimos(I know this isn't exact) in northern asia maybe that eat the fly agaric mushroom. They then drink their piss because the chemical that gets them high does so by altering something in the brain, then that chemical passes out of the system. So drinking your piss would be like taking another dose. But in the real world, people can just go and buy or get another dose, it's not necessary to drink your own piss. Also, one shouldn't eat the fly agaric, it's dangerous.

XERXES, I am an avid reader of the vaults of erowid, but I won't put the link here as I know most people who disagree with me won't believe what's there. Shared knowledge regarding drugs is a great source for clearing up any ignorance, but when you have been brainwashed your whole life it is hard to change, and only those who are above the level of sheep will be enlightened.

Well, that would explain why I could not find a good link. I do remember my Biology professor telling that to us last semester, but I have called him on an error a few times.

I stand correct.

Kinnopio?
04-14-2003, 06:23 PM
Well it seems this post is dead. Munik pwned the antidrug side.

Hey! Slavery was abolished a long time ago, last time I checked... -C'

Thrackan Solo
04-14-2003, 07:23 PM
I had three friends who got into pot from there older brothers. One friend gave it to the other friend and they got addicted, then we were at a strip mall at night and they started to light up, i declined because I didnt want my mom to smell smoke on my shirt, it was the best decision i have made in my whole pathetic life, because the next day there parents caught them, then a week later our school found out about it, our school has a low tolerance for drugs, and they got expelled immediately. Now two are clean, and the other is addicted to cigs, marijuana can ruin good people.

Kinnopio?
04-14-2003, 09:20 PM
I had three friends who got into pot from there older brothers. One friend gave it to the other friend and they got addicted, then we were at a strip mall at night and they started to light up, i declined because I didnt want my mom to smell smoke on my shirt, it was the best decision i have made in my whole pathetic life, because the next day there parents caught them, then a week later our school found out about it, our school has a low tolerance for drugs, and they got expelled immediately. Now two are clean, and the other is addicted to cigs, marijuana can ruin good people.

Sorry your friends got busted, yeah marijuana prohibition sucks. Also sorry your friend is smoking cigs.. dumb thing to do.

Breton
04-14-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Kinnopio?
Well it seems this post is dead. Munik pwned the antidrug side.


:lol:

Ok, let me say this once again for you. I do not have any sources because I am not making any claims that need sources.

So basically, if I said the world is round, and you said that it isn't, then you'd be right because you're "not making any claims that need sources"? Seems pretty odd to me.

I am merely pointing out the fallacy in your statements by using either A: The ability to see that most of your statements can be proven false by logic alone,

Hehe, tell me more about this one, this will be fun to hear.

and B: My own experience, which gives me the knowledge that you do not possess.

Your own experience does not give you more knowledge on the long-term damages of marijuana.

Also, I found this on the AMSA website in the Preamble Purposes and Principles Regarding Use of Illegal Drugs, Alcohol and Tobacco:

1. SUPPORTS the legislation of cannabis as a Schedule II drug for emperically validated medicinal
use in the most effective form for the individual; (1999)

2. SUPPORTS the legalization of cannabis for medicinal use in the most effective form for the
individual. (1999)

So, they support cannabis for medical use, not private. I do not, however, since there are medicines that are just as effective as cannabis.

I also find that an opinion article written by a college student that is posted on the website of a student orginization for political activism to hardly be a reliable source. There is in fact no support that I could find by the AMSA regarding Melisse Leung's article. This is just another example of you latching on to someone else's ideals and attempting to use them as support for your own twisted agenda against drug use.

Well, if people were to pick that much on internet sites, no sites would be any reliable.

Nevertheless, the sources I give to you are much better than the sources you won't give me.

munik
04-15-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Breton
So basically, if I said the world is round, and you said that it isn't, then you'd be right because you're "not making any claims that need sources"? Seems pretty odd to me.You know, you quoted the next line in that paragraph which I'm gonna have to repeat again. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just pointing out the statements that are wrong. If I said you are wrong, would that automatically make me right? If I said you were right, would that make me wrong? Is this how everything on your planet works?

My experience does give me more knowledge then some sissy who can only pull random data off the internet. If I had one minute of experience, that one minute would be an eternity of experience compared to nothing. If I wanted to listen to someone mimic others ideas I could buy a parrot and have someone feed him the same horsesh*t.

I also care not for the reasons anyone support weed. I don't care if they want to shove it up their dogs ass. Do it or don't, I don't care. But it bothers me when someone lies to another in an attempt to frighten them from trying something new.

Of course internet sites aren't reliable. Why would anyone think that? You want to give me a source, tell me the name of the person who's ideas you are repeating to me. If I could confer with the source then I could hash out something. But it's pointless to argue with the sheep when they just repeat what the shepard said.

Oh, and you want a source? IT'S ME, NUMBNUTS! I've said it about one-frickin-million times. I am telling you what I know from my experience and my opinions regarding the situation. Maybe you could quote this paragraph and type some witty comment underneath, just so I can repeat myself again.

Easy there, horsey. I see your points, but no need to get foam all over your mouth about it, people. -C'

Breton
04-15-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by munik
You know, you quoted the next line in that paragraph which I'm gonna have to repeat again. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just pointing out the statements that are wrong. If I said you are wrong, would that automatically make me right? If I said you were right, would that make me wrong? Is this how everything on your planet works?
[/i]

So I give you sources that indicates I'm right, while you have nothing that indicates that I am wrong. You have nothing that is backing up your words.

My experience does give me more knowledge then some sissy who can only pull random data off the internet. If I had one minute of experience, that one minute would be an eternity of experience compared to nothing. If I wanted to listen to someone mimic others ideas I could buy a parrot and have someone feed him the same horsesh*t.

Look, if you squash a bug, will that give you more knowledge about how many bugs that are killed each year and what damages these losses of bugs does to the ecosystem? No, it won't.

I also care not for the reasons anyone support weed. I don't care if they want to shove it up their dogs ass. Do it or don't, I don't care. But it bothers me when someone lies to another in an attempt to frighten them from trying something new.

Do quote me where I have lied. Because I certainly can't find the place.

Of course internet sites aren't reliable. Why would anyone think that? You want to give me a source, tell me the name of the person who's ideas you are repeating to me. If I could confer with the source then I could hash out something. But it's pointless to argue with the sheep when they just repeat what the shepard said.

:lol: Sorry to disappoint you here, mate, but I'm afraid I don't know of any person I repeat after. I have gotten my information from books, magazines, internet, etc. You have gotten your information from your own head.

Oh, and you want a source? IT'S ME, NUMBNUTS! I've said it about one-frickin-million times. I am telling you what I know from my experience and my opinions regarding the situation. Maybe you could quote this paragraph and type some witty comment underneath, just so I can repeat myself again.

You deny the knowledge of the damages of cannabis because you want to belive it's not dangerous. I would not have gained anything by lying, so why should I lie? Tell me this, please.

munik
04-16-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Breton
Do quote me where I have lied. Because I certainly can't find the place.I did not say you lied. I went back and re-read your posts on this page, and all I see is mostly links. I thought that maybe you had an original idea, but I realize that everything you posted were words from someone else. You repeat them here for whatever reason, so if I find fault in them I translate that into fault with you. If this is unacceptable, then simply state after each link that you do not believe in what the link states and are merely putting said link there to harass Munik. Unless you do believe in the link, in which case I can only assume that you are using the ideas and arguments of these people instead of your own. So, considering you're the middle man in either case, do not act so oblivious when some of those ideas in the links you post are challenged. If you are hard pressed to come up with a link in response to any of my challenges concerning your links, then please just state that. Don't give me some crap about you not lying. Of course you did not lie, as you didn't say anything. You are posting these links to antogonize me, nothing more.



Originally posted by Breton
:lol: Sorry to disappoint you here, mate, but I'm afraid I don't know of any person I repeat after. I have gotten my information from books, magazines, internet, etc. You have gotten your information from your own head.I see you get a laugh out of this by the way you use that little smiley. Very cute. I'm surprised that you don't know any of these people, yet take their word for gospel. You don't know who Melisse Leung is, yet you cut and pasted her words (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=93624&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post1091614) into this discussion as a replacement for your words. You say you get your information from books, magazines, internet, etc. That is my point. I too also gain knowledge from reading those sources, but I believe in my ablities to interpret information by using all of my available faculties. Which means I can usually figure out which is garbage and which isn't. My problem with you is that I do not believe you can, or want to, do that. From where I'm standing it looks like you will believe anything as long is it makes negative claims against drugs. Regardless of the absurdity of any claim. It would not surprise me to see you post a link stating that smoking marijuana will make your anus implode and give your dog heartworms. And if I was to argue against that, you would most likely make another one of your witty comments because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to find another link to support that.


Originally posted by Breton
You deny the knowledge of the damages of cannabis because you want to belive it's not dangerous. I would not have gained anything by lying, so why should I lie? Tell me this, please. I do not deny knowledge of negetive effects of marijuana, but I do deny absurd claims against it. This is not because I want to believe it's safe, as that point is inconsequential. For me, personally, the Risk vs. Reward is worth it. As we all now know that you didn't lie, as you didn't really say anything, you did post links to pages with anti-drug agendas. One can assume that you either share said agendas, or have one of your own. Why else would you post links to information from people you don't know to sway the thoughts of people here at these boards that you don't know? For lack of reason from you, the best reason I can think of is to cause a little strife, a little drama. Which you accomplished with me. You know, get me a little hot, try and get me to blow up with some incoherrent post. Maybe that'll happen, maybe not. I tested it out and think I've pushed it a little too far, so this is as fired up as you are gonna see me.

So, if you want to keep attacking my methods of discussing this topic, go ahead. It's starting to get old for me, but I reckon I can get another reply out to you. If I had made some claim in a previous reply here concerning my beliefs for drugs, go ahead and quote it. Then we can discuss that. I'd rather the discussion concern drugs, as I doubt anyone else here cares to read a clever debate about semantics between you and I.

Dagobahn Eagle
04-30-2003, 01:46 AM
and befoer you go ranting on about how weed is bad...tobacco is just as bad (worse IMO), yet its legal.
Uhm.. tobacco is legal because it cannot be banned. We tried to ban alcohol, didn't work. Likewise, we "cannot" ban tobacco. There's the difference. We can keep weed banned, so we do.

And if they aren't bad for you, drugs definetly aren't good for you.

My two cents.

Chastan
05-05-2003, 09:34 AM
Hehe, sorry to open a can of worms again :)

I admit I've smoked the wacky tobaccy a few times and been plenty drunk before, but neither of those in a long time. :)

There's quite a bit about addiction that has to deal with genetics... people with addictive personalties... if it's not drugs, it's something else...sex, stealing, etc. I've found that marijuana is not addicting to most except for a small subset of those people who have alcoholism running in their family. I don't really think there is such a thing as a "gateway drug," per se, because if people are gonna become addicts they will with or without pot. ;) Interesting thing though, for those few who DO become addicted to pot, withdrawl leads to severe depression... suicide rate is about 25% . :eek:

With that being said, KEEP YOURSELF CLEAN UNTIL YOU GET OUT OF HIGHSCHOOL! Your brain is still growing in high school, marijuana at that age will affect development (this is a truth, not something made up).

Acid and Ex as I've seen it can have a significant effect on brain function...change in thought patterns... problems even 10 years down the road after stopping.

For those who have had bad experiences with friends who do pot... I am sure if it wasn't pot it would be something else...that's the nature of an addictive personality. I'm sorry that that happens :(

So to sum up, ;), I usually don't mind a little boozin' and smokin', but I don't mind people who are against it! In fact, it's a great and healthy choice to make! :D

Edit: P.S. As much as people would like to say, marijauana is NOT a good idea for treament of [clinical] depression! Trust me on that one.

Luc Solar
05-05-2003, 02:05 PM
We had some people protesting in Finland last weekend. They wanted to legalize drugs.

I'm not an expert on the effects pot has on people, but looking at that crowd was enough. If *those* people say something, I'll say the exact opposite.

I'd love to be open minded and stuff, but....jesus... the way these pierced neon-coloured vegan jeti-hippie-hybrids looked... *shudder*

Seriously, are they so dumb that they don't realize that no-one is going to take them seriously if they look like freaks?

It's like: "look at us! Do you want the whole country to be like us? If so, listen to what we're saying!"

I almost joined the Iraq anti-war protest a while back, but then it hit me: Do I really want to be seen amongst old hairy freaks and pierced teenage girlies wielding signs like: "McDonalds=devil, Fur/abortion/meat means murder! Save the whales! God loves vegans! Bush is satan! Die capitalist pigs!"? ...no I don't.

I'd really like to see someone protesting something *and* succeeding in looking somewhat human.

(No offence to anyone who feels like he/she fits into the descriptions above. :) )