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RpTheHotrod
03-03-2003, 02:41 AM
Really, I've heard so much debate over teenage suicide...especially when it comes to the spiritual debates..but let's stay out of that.

Honestly though, do you think if a life gets stooped so low, that suicide IS their only option? Or do you blame them for committing suicide? I've had it pretty rough, and being so low in life, I really DO see why they do....however, the only thing that kept me alive was being a Christian. I know there's something more to life.



All in all...suicide. Your thoughts and beliefs on it. I've been close to it, so I do understand why they go through with it. Sometimes, I don't blame them...but I don't agree with them.

BTW, I'm not talking about the ones where their girl/boyfriend dumped them and they killed themselves. I'm talking, mostly teenages, with alot of strees...hating life, etc... not stuff like a breakup.

Pnut_Man
03-03-2003, 06:47 AM
I just think people who commit suicide are deprived of common sense or really lost something that they can't live without (wife, husband, I don't know..). A teen committing suicide is the most idiotic thing he/she can do, there is so much to accomplish and see in life. Killing yourself would screw you of precious time on Earth that could have been spent away from your misery. When I hear about teens who committ suicide I just say "Dumbarse".

Nitro
03-03-2003, 08:59 AM
Where I live, there was a high school a few years back that had a whole string that started when a girl died on a skiing trip.

She died, then one of her friends hung herself, and then that girl's boyfriend drowned himself, and it went from there... 7 suicides, all told, in the span of 2 months. That's almost one a week. Then there were two more a year later that notes they left connected them to the previous string... 10 fresh lives gone because the first girl decided to sneak away from her beginner's class and try the real hill.

I've had 3 people close to me kill themselves, countless more come to me because they were thinking about it, and at one extremly low point, thought (not considered, but thought) about it myself. Errant wondering about how I'd do it, and how people would react... It stopped there because I realized how many people I'd be hurting if I did.

It takes a lot to drive a relativly normal person like myself to think about something like that, and while a lot of these people don't have it as bad as they think they do, some of them have more crap than anyone ever realizes.

ShockV1.89
03-03-2003, 10:42 AM
Much though I dislike and question religion... it's the fear of that that has kept me from killing myself in the past. I've always said, I dont want to gamble my entire existence on the possibilty of a supreme being and afterlife... and that goes both ways.

People who are suicidal arent thinking rationally. Take it from one who knows. One can reason with a suicidal person, present all sorts of logical evidence as to why living is better and the pain they're in is temporary. But it doesnt really change much because the fact is that the pain is still there, and that overrides everything else in your mind. You hear what people are telling you, but you dont process it.

It really sucks. Only the fear of a possibility of eternal damnation kept me from doing it at the time (I was 17). I figured that a life of pain is better than an eternity in agony, even if it might not happen.

Azrael
03-03-2003, 02:45 PM
PRE-NOTE: I am not trying to offend anyone here, but I know I will anyway. I apologize to these people ahead of time.

Personally, I have absolutely no respect for people that commit suicide. It's their decision, and, for lack of a better term, they have to live with the consequences. I disrespect suicide-ers because they are selfish people, who only care about how they feel. They base their suicide because their sad, or mad, or lost, or whatever; they give no thought whatsoever to anyone that cares about them. They don't give a damn about what the people they leave behind are going to feel.

About a month ago, there was a kid at my school that commit suicide. He had a 4.5 GPA, was a Cross Country all star, was rich, and had just been accepted into a promising college. He killed himself because he had been caught trying to change a test grade on the computers. Because of that minor crisis, he put a gun in his mouth. The next day, there was a "shrine" erected, stating that "We'll always love you, BOB." (Bob is not his name, and I'm not going to use his real one.) I was upset by this. Not the suicide, but the shrine. I understand that people are grieving. I have no problem with that. But when people start erecting shrines idolizing someone that took his own life, I have a problem. Basically, it's saying: "Kill yourself, and everyone will love you." That's a very bad message to send to people.

C'jais
03-03-2003, 05:02 PM
There is no purpose to life. The only thing that prevents people from commiting suicide is the general instinct of survival, and the goals they set before themselves.

A Goal in life is one of the major reasons why religion helps people with their lives, if not the reason.

I don't know why I haven't killed myself by now. I'd guess it's because I still find some joy in the sense of existence, and because I can't bear myself to hurt others if I passed away, as Azrael said.

It's all sh/te anyway. Our communities are built on fear, self-worship and selfish desires, if you look through its masquerade of goodwill. Morals are not absolute - easier fighting for, than living up to. Love is just a drive to secure offspring. It's as selfish as eating and taking a piss. In the end, we're still nothing more than mere animals, we still have to come to terms with not existing, and pleasure is still nothing more than crude chemicals in our brains.

Ok, so I'm being cynical. And b/tchy.

But hey, I can still have some fun.

shukrallah
03-03-2003, 10:34 PM
i truthfully dont know. i thought about suicide a month ago. as well running away junk like that, but figured it aint ganna do anything for me. i thought about my mom, and sisters, and my dad. i also thought about God, and figured its his choice when i die not mine. its a lot deeper than that but u guyz dont need details. i get both points here, azrael is right when he says your selffish because ur leaving behind all those people who care about u, but at the same time ur not thinking about that, u cant even see how they care about u anyways.

Azrael
03-03-2003, 10:46 PM
I used to think about suicide a lot. I still do, if I have a really bad day. When I think about it now, the thing that stops me is the thought that I have too much to lose. Maybe not anything material, or sexual, or something like that, but more of spiritually. I don't know what it is, but there's just a feeling that I can't quit. Back when there was a lot of bad sh!t in my life, the thing that stopped me was the fact that I didn't really believe in a heaven. If, at that time, I had known for a fact that there was something better after life, than there was now, I wouldn't have hestitated to take my own life. Now, I'm not so sure.

Here's a little theory I've thought about recently:

What if, life was Hell? Not hell, as in unbearable or sucky, but the Hell? Like, biblical hell. Ruled by Satan. And dying was the basically your admission into Heaven? Let's say, you're born into life as a prisoner in Hell, destined to be punished until you've payed for your past life's sins. You live out your life, and when you die, that signifies that your time is up in Hell, and God is permitting you to enter into Heaven. Maybe, some people repent earlier than others, thus people who commit suicide, or get in car accidents. Maybe the desire to commit suicide is really something that was placed in you by God, in order for you to enter into Heaven "earlier" than planned. Maybe, for those of us who have thought of suicide, but never commit it, it's a test. Let's face it. Life's not sucky all the time. Maybe, God's testing us to see whether or not we're not being tempted by the seductive images of life: women, money, fame, etc. Maybe the true "saints" are those who aren't tempted to stay in this false Eden, but rather to leave it all behind for the better.

Sorry if it's kinda confusing.:) Just my theory.

obi
03-03-2003, 10:53 PM
Well, I don't believe in suicide because God is against it.(let's NOT argue religion in this thread, I was just stating a fact)

I also believe that life was given to you, and I do not believe in destroying gifts that someone gives to you. Life is something to be treasured(no matter how bad it gets), not to be taken for granted.

griff38
03-04-2003, 09:35 AM
I think the stigma attached to suicide is misplaced. We villify and dehumanize people who take their own lives for many reasons.

It scares those who afraid of death, it insults those who think life is precious. It's selfish to the loved ones left behind. I could go on & on.

But it amazes me that western culture with it's ingrained indulgence in the individual and his or her rights would deny this ulimate act of self control.

I am already thinking that if I make it to very old age, i will probably like to die by my own hands. One final moment of self indulgence.

Having said that, I will also say the universe has been around for billions of years that I didn't get to enjoy. And it will go on for billions more without me, so what's the hurry?

ShadowTemplar
03-04-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Well, I don't believe in suicide because God is against it.(let's NOT argue religion in this thread, I was just stating a fact)

LOL. And all we Free Thinkers can consider the oxymoronic element of that statement.

I think that suicide is rather stupid. You have one shot at life, why throw it away? But that's just my basic, animal instincts speaking...

Seriously, though, teen suicide is very selfish (you have been very expensive at that point in your life, and are just about to enter the productive age). Parents committing suicide while their children are young are also clearly selfish (their children need them still).

The interesting question is whether or not it is morally justifyable to kill yourself after you have 'expired'. I am in doubt as to this. On the one hand, you hurt those who care about you (and for the vast majority there will be some), but on the other hand, it's your life...

But I guess that my survival instinct is enough for me...

"The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
but I have promises to keep,
and miles to go before I sleep,
and miles to go before I sleep."

- Stopping by woods on a snowy evening, by Robert Frost

RpTheHotrod
03-07-2003, 02:42 AM
How's this for a suicide note...poor guy


Today, as the war rages, I sit behind my desk and wait for Him.

I was born an eon ago, born to see the world change, born to die.

And now, I sit and await the knock at my doors.

The war is meaningless, no shells or bullets have rung out but hearts and feelings are destroyed just he same.

BOOM! He is here.

BOOM! I feel it, fear rising within me.

KA-BOOM! My doors are broken off their hinges and sent into my chamber.

With a heart of ice He enters.

Not a man, not a machine, but a figure in black holding the curved blade of a scythe.

He comes closer.

For years Iíve waited, wanting to believe that every day was the day.

For years Iím reminded that only the dead see the end of war.

Now at this final moment, as He raises the gore- covered blade, the blade that has taken the guilty and innocent alike.

I witness a rebirth.

With all His force, He swings the weapon of judgment.

I hear the screams of pain and see the bodies lying on the battle fields.

And the Blade, the blade passes cleanly trough my neck.

And I stand unharmed, staring into darkened portal where a face would sit and I see a glimmer of light.

A light that points the truth to me, why Iíve been forsaken to live for so long, why Iíve never felt true love, why Iíve never fathered a child.

He and I are one, for we are many. I am Death.








Here's some info for you

BODY COUNT

Every day 14 young people (15-24yrs of age) commit suicide
1 teen commits suicide every 100 minutes
In North America there is a suicide attempt every 42 seconds
More New York police officers die by suicide than are killed by criminals
Women survive suicide attempts more frequently than men
Men attempt suicide more frequently than women
Four times more males commit suicide than females
1 out of 5 people suffer from depression at some point in their lives
30,000 Americans / year take their own lives
Female teens attempt suicide twice as frequently as males
15% of people diagnosed with depression successfully commit suicide
Suicide is the 9th leading cause of death in the world
More people die from suicide than from murder
The age category with the highest suicide rate is 65+




TEEN SUICIDE

"Gifted" children are as likely as "normal" students to attempt suicide
10% of high school students have made a suicide attempt
Over half of teen suicide victims had substance abuse problems
Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death for people 15-24 years old
Almost twice as many youth die from suicide as of natural causes
Male teens aged 17-19 who drink are at the highest risk for suicide
In the last 30 years, teen suicide has risen 300% in North America
Masturbation does not lead to insanity, depression or suicidal tendencies.



HOW, WHERE, WHEN

64% of young men commit suicide by using firearms
18% of young men commit suicide by hanging
20% of young women commit suicide by using firearms
53% of young women commit suicide by poisons and overdose
70% of males use violent means to commit suicide (guns, blades)
Completed suicides most often occur in the spring and on Mondays
60% of suicides occur in the home, between 3 pm and midnight
Nearly 60% of all suicides are committed with a firearm
The countries with the highest suicide rates are Hungary, Finland and Russia



20/20 HINDSIGHT

40% of all suicides of leave notes
80% of people who kill themselves have had warning signs ignored
65% of successful suicides are a second attempt
70% of suicides occur within 3 months of recovery from a deep depression
Suicidal intent is not passed genetically.
Depressive disorders caused by chemical imbalances can be hereditary.
People are generally suicidal only for a very brief period

Dagobahn Eagle
05-10-2003, 07:59 PM
Let me just say this, then you can let the thread drop back to the very bottom of page 3 for all I care:

People kill themselves, or come close to killing themselves out of severe depression. I just wanted to say that being bitchy about it is not the right attitude. Quotes like
When I hear about teens who committ suicide I just say "Dumbarse".
Personally, I have absolutely no respect for people that commit suicide. It's their decision, and, for lack of a better term, they have to live with the consequences. I disrespect suicide-ers because they are selfish people, who only care about how they feel. They base their suicide because their sad, or mad, or lost, or whatever; they give no thought whatsoever to anyone that cares about them. They don't give a damn about what the people they leave behind are going to feel.

About a month ago, there was a kid at my school that commit suicide. He had a 4.5 GPA, was a Cross Country all star, was rich, and had just been accepted into a promising college. He killed himself because he had been caught trying to change a test grade on the computers. Because of that minor crisis, he put a gun in his mouth. The next day, there was a "shrine" erected, stating that "We'll always love you, BOB." (Bob is not his name, and I'm not going to use his real one.) I was upset by this. Not the suicide, but the shrine. I understand that people are grieving. I have no problem with that. But when people start erecting shrines idolizing someone that took his own life, I have a problem. Basically, it's saying: "Kill yourself, and everyone will love you." That's a very bad message to send to people.
are more destructive than constructive to just about anyone who's lost someone to suicide, thinks about suicide, or has thought about suicide.

I know what you're saying, but having gone trough this myself (and had a friend who attempted suicide and one who told me she had cut herself repeatedly in the past), I can only tell you to moderate your language.

Azrael, I know suicide is meaningless to you, but you're WAY to cynical. They didn't erect that shrine because he killed himself. They erected it because he died. If he got hit by a car or something they'd probably still do it. I know what you mean, but people have to be allowed to grieve.
I think the stigma attached to suicide is misplaced. We villify and dehumanize people who take their own lives for many reasons.
Ditto. Which, I think, is also selfish.

Just keep this in your mind.

El Sitherino
05-10-2003, 11:42 PM
what if your family was killed infront of you but you lived (naturally) and you got this psychological thing going on and you fail school (you are normally very bright) and therefore you have nothing left why not take your life. i mean you lost your family, noone to house you or take care of you, you failed school, no way to get a job or an education, you got a major freakin mental disability thing going on.


that all said though i dislike suicide but i think it's none of my business what someone wants to do with their life.

Breton
05-10-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
what if your family was killed infront of you but you lived (naturally) and you got this psychological thing going on and you fail school (you are normally very bright) and therefore you have nothing left why not take your life. i mean you lost your family, noone to house you or take care of you, you failed school, no way to get a job or an education, you got a major freakin mental disability thing going on.


that all said though i dislike suicide but i think it's none of my business what someone wants to do with their life.

Well, even if this should happen (though I doubt it ever does) it still does not justify suicide. No good can come from it.

You can't just leave the suiciders alone to take their life, since most of them are due to depressions and other mental unbalance. These people need to be helped, and not ignored as "they can do whatever they like with their lives".

Dagobahn Eagle
05-11-2003, 12:02 AM
But what if, say, some stupid writer publishes a book about you and it becomes a best-seller and suddenly you've got money and you take adult school, passing it with at least a medium grade?

See? Something unexpected could happen, couldn't it?

Did you see the movie Run, Lola, Run? Lola needs to come up with 100 000 German Marks to save her boyfriend, and runs into (literally, no pun intended :D) several obstacles along her way.

One of them: She runs past a garage just as a car exits. The car hits her, screeching to a stop before entering the street with her on the hood. Now, if she didn't run right past just as the car exited, she wouldn't get hurt, would she?

Well, this movie just happens to show you what would happen if she started running 5 seconds earlier.

She runs past the garage, and the car rolls harmlessy into the road...
where it gets hit in the side by another car. Expected? No.

Another quote: A butterfly striking it's wings in Russia can set off a hurricane in Australia.

daring dueler
05-17-2003, 12:19 PM
anyone who kills themself would have to be one of the most selfish people in the wolrd, they arnt thinking about anyone but themselves when commiting suicide!

Dagobahn Eagle
05-17-2003, 04:59 PM
anyone who kills themself would have to be one of the most selfish people in the wolrd, they arnt thinking about anyone but themselves when commiting suicide!
Riiight.
Did you read my earlier post in this thread? If so, are you posting this just to troll?

Kinnopio?
05-17-2003, 07:37 PM
I hate hearing that it's selfish to kill yourself. They have to be going through hell to do it in the first place, they wanted out; it's just as selfish to want them to stick around and keep you company.

ckcsaber
05-17-2003, 10:22 PM
Why kill yourself? There is too much in this world you would miss out on. If something saddens you to the point of constant depression, leave it behind. This may not be easy, but it is always possible.

C'jais
05-17-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
Why kill yourself? There is too much in this world you would miss out on. If something saddens you to the point of constant depression, leave it behind. This may not be easy, but it is always possible.

You don't think like that when you're in the situation.

Once you don't exist, what might have happened becomes irrelevant. It doesn't matter, as you're not here to enjoy, suffer or experience anything.


As for my views on suicide, I personally think it's exhibiting a loser mentality - you're quitting because it gets a little rough, and won't care to stick around and try to "rough it". But that's just me, I won't look down on anyone who commits suicide - it's only for keeping me going through the tough sh*t that life throws at me.

Sivy
05-17-2003, 11:16 PM
when i was at school there was this boy who was a year older than me.
he was severely bullied and i believe he had troubles at home as well.
he didn't have any friends. guys often beat him up and girls would often tease him because of his 'funny' looks.
but he always wore a fake smile that people didn't understand. i guess thats why the people that bullied him didn't feel any remorse when calling him names or beating him.
as i think of him now i have an mental image of one time he was headbutted by one of the many that picked on him. he stood up afterwards with his nose gushing blood, still wearing his wide smile.
one day the whole school was called to assembly in the school's gym. we were all told that this boy had hung himself, commiteed suicide. i looked over to this boy's class. most of the boys were just staring at the floor . some of the girls were crying. out of sadness? maybe - guilt? more likely.

personally, i could never take my own life. but then would i feel the same if i had the problems that these kids have?

see thats the thing, you can say that suicide is wrong or its selfish and thats fine. its your opinon and it shows that you value your life which is good.
but the thing you have to understand is for someone to want to take their own life must mean they are going through severe suffering that they feel the only way of ending it is by killing themselves.
how do you know that if you were going through the same thing you would still feel the same about suicide?
i don't know. my life's good, i fear death.
but would i feel the same if i was in their position?

Dagobahn Eagle
05-18-2003, 12:11 AM
The whole issue here is that we're not talking about politics or anything, we're talking about severe depression. Should a suicidal or ex-suicidal poster, and we know we have a few of those here, they're everywhere, that person is going to get hurt.

If suicidal people do not care about their friends and family, why do they write notes and letters when they "do it"? Simply because they know that one of the first questions their peers and family are going to ask is "why?". Why don't more people write notes, then, you say? Why do they often not write more than "I'm sorry"? Because writing a suicide letter is so hard. I'm fully convinced it's the hardest form of writing in the world. Try to write a mock suicide note (delete it when you're done, or you might scare the pee out of an eventual reader). I'm serious, do it. It should be hard. Then imagine how hard it is to do it for real.

I think people sometimes forget that these boards are not automatic message-generators; every post you read is written by a homo sapiens with emotions, just like you. At another message board I used to visit, there used to be this user who posted depressed rants on how his life sucked. Then eventually his friend used his account to tell us he was dead. Ugh.. gross reminder.

To quote a wise and insightful person on these boards:Why kill yourself? There is too much in this world you would miss out on. If something saddens you to the point of constant depression, leave it behind. This may not be easy, but it is always possible.

Masturbation does not lead to insanity, depression or suicidal tendencies.
LOL!
But it does attract Hujin and Maren, my ferocious man-eating dragons.

Just to add this: I believe suicide breeds suicide. The more you hear about suicide, the more people seem to want to commit suicide. I read this in an article covering a bridge in Norway that was relatively frequently used by suicide jumpers. Actually, the article was more about how the state sucked for not securing the sides of the bridge with fences, and how the leftist claimed to rule the righties by planning to install fences, but you get my point.

NOTE: If you suspect someone might be suicidal, talk to that person about it or seek help. I can't stress this enough.
80% of people who kill themselves have had warning signs ignored.

ShadowTemplar
05-21-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Sivy B
i don't know. my life's good, i fear death.
but would i feel the same if i was in their position?

Depends. Some break, some dig in. No-one is unscathed. Those that break will either go down in depression, maybe even killing themselves, or become one of the bullies that they so loath. Those that dig in. Well, what can I say? They get a sound, healthy paranoia and in the best of cases they are spurred to great acts, trying to prove that they can do something worthwhile. In the worst (and far more common) cases, they'll have to settle for the paranoia. I think that most break.

But far from everyone in that situation kills himself.

I won't claim to know what makes some people break and others dig in, but some things that I know have at least moderate influence are:

Having someone to talk to/be loved by/that you know is there.

Being hellbent on 'not letting those bastards win'.

Be good at something, even something that doesn't give you any respect amongst the bullies.

Keep telling yourself that they, not you are the unworthy subhumans (which isn't entirely wrong).

Knowing that time works for you, and that you'll be valued above the bullies in real life (I personally have the great satisfaction of seeing that those bullies who practically ruled the first school I went to are half-witted idiots today, who couldn't multiply two by ten without a pocket calculator).

Knowing that someone somewhere is gonna be very sorry if you end up pushing up daisies before your time is done.

Having a solid fear of death.

But this list is by no means comprehensive. Or even very well-thought out. But it's a selection of things the effects of which I have personal knowledge of.

Dagobahn Eagle
05-22-2003, 12:50 AM
And some break after having been dug in for a long time.

What about suicide victims who commit suicide for reasons other than bullying? With victims of bullying, at least you can work to better their lives by stopping the bullying. But what about suicides due to reasons that don't get better? Something you can never get back?

Jah Warrior
05-22-2003, 01:32 AM
well, the way i see it. If someone wants to kill them self its up to them. I'm not so arrogant as to cast judgment on them. Who the hell are we to decide for anyone else?

Kids killing themself is sad as they havent even seen the world in its true light. Trust me when i say that the world is VERY different when you are an old bastard like me. Sorry to be patronising, but its true, your perspective changes and there are things in this world that can only be appreciated through reflection.

What is sad is that people can get to a point where they feel they have no option, it says a lot about society i think. My best mate tried to top himself just before christmas, he's getting divorced and doesnt see his daughter very much. He started drinking whisky every day and just lost the plot. He ate a load of asprins and drunk a bottle of whisky and it was sheer chance that we found him. He's fine now and is in his way to recovery. His daughter celebrated her 3rd birthday yesterday, and to think he would have missed that.:rolleyes:

When people kill em self and the family and friends react angrily to it you have to wonder if they are thinking of their friend/family member or thinking of how they feel.

Aslo some cultures regard suicide as extremely honourable. for example Japan and as we all know; Muslims.

ironically i think people that berate those that commit suicide are the selfish ones.

ShadowTemplar
05-22-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And some break after having been dug in for a long time.

True. I forgot those. Me bad.

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
What about suicide victims who commit suicide for reasons other than bullying? With victims of bullying, at least you can work to better their lives by stopping the bullying. But what about suicides due to reasons that don't get better? Something you can never get back?

Like someone dying off on you, for example? Dunno. I've no experience on that kind, and I haven't got any book-learning on it either. Might want to ask Skin. He knows a lot of stuff.

Breton
05-22-2003, 09:43 AM
As I see it, committing sucide is purely a lack of willpower. People are experiencing a rough time, and just want to take the easy way out, instead of suffering through the bad times and coming to the good times after that. It's kind of like the gom jabbar test in the beginning of Dune, in case anyone has read that one.

So, in a way, we might say that sucide separates those who are animals and those who are humans.

well, the way i see it. If someone wants to kill them self its up to them. I'm not so arrogant as to cast judgment on them. Who the hell are we to decide for anyone else?

But what good can come out of suicide? Many people aren't far-sighted enough to see that they have a lot to look forward to if they don't give in. Just throwing away the problems like that, "They can just kill themselves if they want to!", is not the way I like thinking.

Jah Warrior
05-22-2003, 09:48 AM
Put it this way, running round berating people once they die isnt helping either!

Its not up to us its up to them, and if we have done all we can to be kind and decent to these people and they still want to go ahead and kill em self then so be it. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it... People are using guilt to stop people form doing their own thing, now THATs tragic.:(

SkinWalker
05-22-2003, 02:00 PM
Suicide is so counterintuitive to most cultures, that it is frequently the subject of much scorn.

I think that one of the reasons is that suicide doesn't affect the central person as much as the survivors. The person dying is merely dead. He/she has no more problems.

Those that know this person or come in contact with this person after death are, however, very affected.

They are reminded of their own mortality. They morn the loss of a family member or friend. They find guilt in the loss, since there was something that they probably could've done to prevent it. They find anger, since they're cheated out of completing, continuing, resolving a relationship.

But I think, most of all, we are reminded that death awaits us all. We are so conditioned to live that we find someone who chooses death to be strange.

To discourage this type of behavior, societies (perhaps rightfully so) construct taboos and rules about suicide. We call them cowards (after all, you don't want to be a coward, do you?), cheaters (such an amoral thing, cheating), quitters (no one likes a quitter), and imagine supernatural beings who find it disagreeable. These same omnipotent beings that should have "known" what was going to happen according to many societies.

The fact is: suicide affects the living more than it does the dead. Very often, the person commiting suicide is doing so as a last spite, method of hurt, act of attention. This is often expressed in the "notes" left behind. Everyone begins feeling guilty, angry, lost, desparic, hurt, abandoned... etc. Everyone except the one who commit suicide. That person feels nothing.

"Suicide," to quote the theme song of a popular television sitcom, "is painless." But only for the person who dies.

Instead of villifying and condemning those who commit suicide, we (as society and responsible citizens to our societies) should correct the mistakes that allow "80% of the warning signs to go unnoticed" as pointed out by RPTheHotRod.

ShadowTemplar
05-23-2003, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
no one likes a quitter

Hey! The US was founded on by quitters. But other than that, a great analysis.

However, ironically, the greatest problems with suiciders arise when they survive an attempt of suicide by eating pharmaceuticals. Often their liver is irrepairably damaged, and must be replaced. Naturally this raises the ethical question of whether someone who has tried to kill himself should be in front of, say, someone with a gene-defect in the line to get a liver transplant.

Jah Warrior
05-23-2003, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by ShadowTemplar
The US was founded on quitters.



ROFL

El Sitherino
05-23-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by Breton
Well, even if this should happen (though I doubt it ever does) it still does not justify suicide. No good can come from it.

You can't just leave the suiciders alone to take their life, since most of them are due to depressions and other mental unbalance. These people need to be helped, and not ignored as "they can do whatever they like with their lives". well why not i mean technically over weight people (ones without that body making fat causing obesity) are killing themselves by always eating these fatty foods and not doing any excercise. and those everquest fanatics that never move from there chair. people say well they can do whatever they want with their life. in a way they are commiting suicide. and also how do you know that they have depression or mental issues? what if they are perfectly normal people but they just don't care about living and they decide what the hell why not?

El Sitherino
05-23-2003, 10:35 PM
as a person who thought quite a bit about suicide, i have gotten help but the thought and feeling never goes away. im not even a big person on it , i just thought about it. now imagine these people who have actually gone through with it but were saved after say jumping from the chair with the rope around their neck but were cut down. say they had the same problem where they couldnt get rid of the pain and thought no matter what. well would you want them to live in this emotional hell, knowing they can't get out? would you want this emotionally challenged person to be in your home knowing they could blow at any moment. plus i think it takes alot of will power to commit suicide. many suiciders are scared of death even if they don't let it be known. especially the ones that cut themselves. that takes alot of will power. i bet you couldn't grab a knife and put it into your stomach or slash yourself.