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Zulu
03-05-2003, 08:10 PM
do you think that people should have the right to commit suicide?
I got a school prodject on this topic. Just wanted to know what your opinions are.

XERXES
03-05-2003, 08:36 PM
:(

Zulu
03-05-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by XERXES
:(

yes its a sad topic but i feel that you shouldnt be able to commit suicide because whatever it is you can get through it just my opinion

.:Silver:.
03-05-2003, 08:55 PM
maybe

XERXES
03-05-2003, 08:58 PM
word zulu, suicide should never have to be an answer to something. I did the :( thing cause...my gf last week showed signs, but mainly it was because of her father. Its fin enow...but jsut thinking about it is scarry.

-s/<itzo-
03-05-2003, 09:03 PM
When you give up on your life, when there is too much stress, can't handle it no more and decide to blow your brains or jump off a building I think that's wrong.

But I do believe you have the right to die to an extent.

For example Euthanasia (assisted suicide).

Personally, I think everbody has the right to chose there own destiny and it's conclusion if they are fortunate enough to have the opportunity.

If a person wishes to die when there is no hope of recovery and life is an endless blur of pain and misery then that is their decision not mine until such time that I am in the same position.

If people don't want euthanasia then sure that is their choice.

But I have no intention of living till I am nothing more than a vegetable sliding into oblivion. If I contract a debilitating or painfull disease, then I don't want to live in a continual drug induced stupor. Life is mean't for "living", it is not to be "ecked out" to please some religious nut or doctor.

When my quality of life no longer meets my expectations, euthanasia will be an option. I hope by then I will be allowed to do it painlessly and with dignity. I hope self-interested people will not do me the indignity and injustice of interfering with my right to die.

Nitro
03-06-2003, 01:29 AM
For the record, disconnecting life support (LS) isn't euthanasia. If the only thing keeping you alive is an iron lung, and you ask to be taken off it, that's your call, and it's not suicide, assisted or otherwise. You'll die a natural death of whatever's got you screwed up.

I think if I was living on LS with no chance of recovery, I'd say what I had to say to anyone I had something to say to, and have the plug pulled.

Rogue Nine
03-06-2003, 01:31 AM
This topic would be better covered in the Senate forum.

*yoink*

Nitro
03-06-2003, 01:34 AM
I love the way you just yoink threads like that, Niner, baby...

ET Warrior
03-06-2003, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by Nitro
For the record, disconnecting life support (LS) isn't euthanasia. If the only thing keeping you alive is an iron lung, and you ask to be taken off it, that's your call, and it's not suicide, assisted or otherwise. You'll die a natural death of whatever's got you screwed up.

I think if I was living on LS with no chance of recovery, I'd say what I had to say to anyone I had something to say to, and have the plug pulled.

He's saying that if he contracts a painful, debilitating disease that is guaranteed to kill him, he wants to go, even if he's not yet on life support.

Nitro
03-06-2003, 09:58 AM
I know... I was just pointing that out for future reference, because it *will* come up.

topshot
03-06-2003, 08:50 PM
Everyone has the right to make their own decisions, whether they want to kill themselves or not. They should, however, think about the results of what may happen if they do decide to "cut the line."

Life only comes to you once in this world. It is best, in my opinion, to live your life to the fullest.

SmartDragon
03-07-2003, 01:15 PM
i will keep an eye on this thread for future reference when qualified.

C'jais
03-07-2003, 01:25 PM
You only live once. Make the best of it.

Everyone should be able to choose not to exist, if their life is hell.

RpTheHotrod
03-08-2003, 12:06 AM
Heh, life is hell, kill themselves, go to hell.

Hmmm

C'jais
03-08-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Heh, life is hell, kill themselves, go to hell.

Hmmm

My point exactly, why religious people are terrified of killing themselves.

Religion manipulates and sedates people, it's no news. During the dark ages, people were content with their crappy social status, because religion told them it'd be alright in the end, that they'd be rewarded for enduring pain, and that violently rebelling was a sin.

It's no coincidence it's called the opiate of the people.

BTW, I'm actually curious here: Does committing suicide automatically, no questions asked, send you to hell in Christianity? I mean, what if you've been a good Christian all your life, but you just can't take the last, agonizing sickness that you know you won't live through? Hell as well?

Breton
03-08-2003, 04:51 PM
Suicide is always a bad thing. There is no such thing as a right to take suicide, because, well, their life isn't just theirs, if you see what I mean.

It's no coincidence it's called the opiate of the people.

Quoting Marx, are we? I might mention that Marx meant it was important to improve their lifes, and not to get rid of it.

ShockV1.89
03-08-2003, 06:58 PM
Lets not start a religious debate, here...

It's always been my understanding that suicide is a mortal sin, and dying with a mortal sin of that magnitude on your soul is an instant ticket to hell. I wasnt told the particulars....

Divine Spirit
03-08-2003, 08:12 PM
i was thinking about this recently, i think that every should have the right to decide whether they live. its their life so why should they be made to live it?

but at the same time i think that nearly everyones life is worth living and you should never ever ever think about it unless there is serious reason to - which would be highly unlikely. if you do commit suicide you waste your own life and effect other peoples lives so it seems quite a selfish and unthoughtful thing to do.

im not sure about the religious aspects though. i consider my christian but im not sure about my things about my faith.i think that God can forgive everything and so i dont see why suicide would be too big for God to forgive. i also dont like to think that people who commit suicide go to hell for personal reasons.

its hard to tell whether euthanasia is the correct choice in any situation because the person may not actually wont to die but their condition may make them say they do. i also think that you shouldnt be able to say whether you'd want euthanasia to happen to you before you die because you dont know what it would be like to be in that situation. this is a topic im just not sure about.

in a summary, there should be more help for people contemplating suicide so that they have guidance and can think straight before they do anything stupid. somethimes it takes just a few words of advice to make people see properly.

El Sitherino
03-08-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Zulu
do you think that people should have the right to commit suicide?
I got a school prodject on this topic. Just wanted to know what your opinions are. yeah its their life they wanna end it then let em. i just hope they dont take others with them.

SkinWalker
03-10-2003, 01:19 AM
Everyone should have the right to commit suicide at least once. :p

Suicide is always a topic that creates debate. The main problem, obviously, is that most societies of the world have a general taboo, usually relating to religious beliefs. Not surprising, since religion was the "government" of early society. It still is in many societies. Governments tend to set rules for how people live and die. Laws also exist that make suicide illegal and, although one can't exactly be charged with suicide if successful, it does have lasting effects upon things like death benefits.

There's also a deep tradition of suicide in many cultures and societies. The Japanese, for instance, are famous for Sepuku and Hari Kiri as well as Kamakazee. Native American nations often had ritual suicide, usually centered around honor. In fact, "honor" is the main driving force of suicides that are acceptable within various societies.

There are also accounts where people have "given their lives to save others" in situations that were described as "suicidal." I can't think of any factual examples right off the top of my head, but the folklore is present in modern day cinema and literature.

I think Obi-Wan 13 would agree with me when I say, "suicide is painless." ;)

SkinWalker

Breton
03-10-2003, 10:47 AM
Suicide is never a good thing. So what's the point of allowing it?

El Sitherino
03-10-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Suicide is never a good thing. So what's the point of allowing it? uhm cuz its their life and they should have the choice of doing it just as you have the choice to come on the internet. duh.

ShockV1.89
03-10-2003, 02:23 PM
Well, some people may have different perceptions of what is a good thing. If I have a terminal disease that is going to put me through 6 months of agony as my skin rots off of my body, I think that killing myself would be a pretty good thing. I mean, the alternative certainly isnt...

Also, there are a lot of things that arent "good things" that are allowed. Smoking, for example... It's all a matter of choice.

Breton
03-10-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
uhm cuz its their life and they should have the choice of doing it just as you have the choice to come on the internet. duh.

But in 99% of the cases the suicider would have regretted the suicide if he could. To not allow suicide is to help the suiciders, not to make it worse for them.

C'jais
03-10-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Suicide is always a bad thing. There is no such thing as a right to take suicide, because, well, their life isn't just theirs, if you see what I mean.

Whose life is it then? :confused:

Quoting Marx, are we? I might mention that Marx meant it was important to improve their lifes, and not to get rid of it.

Whatever he meant, he hit the mark with that statement.

C'jais
03-10-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
But in 99% of the cases the suicider would have regretted the suicide if he could.

Once a person have stopped existing, talking about how he could have felt is ridiculous, IMHO.

El Sitherino
03-10-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Suicide is always a bad thing. There is no such thing as a right to take suicide, because, well, their life isn't just theirs, if you see what I mean. no i dont see what you mean. it is their life. they have the right to do what they want with it just as you have the right to do with your's.

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
But in 99% of the cases the suicider would have regretted the suicide if he could.uhmmmm you know this how?:confused:
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
To not allow suicide is to help the suiciders, not to make it worse for them. yeah just like telling a teenager over and over again why sex is wrong and telling them over and over again to not do drugs cuz when you annoy them like that you know its gonna make them like it less.:rolleyes:

Breton
03-10-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
Once a person have stopped existing, talking about how he could have felt is ridiculous, IMHO.

Oh, come on, you know as well as me that most suicides are self-centered teenagers who's lost their girlfriend or some guy who's lost his job or something. They are not thinking clearly. And who would have benefit of killing themselves anyway? Most suiciders are young people who have a lot to live for, it's just that they can't see it.

Breton
03-10-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
no i dont see what you mean. it is their life.

Not only. How about all the people who cares for the suicider? They will suffer greatly.

uhmmmm you know this how?

Most suiciders are young people who does not deserve to die. The problem is that their depression makes them rather narrow-minded, so that they do not manage to see the things they have to live for. Think about it, young people in perfectly well health, what would give them reason enough to end their lifes?

yeah just like telling a teenager over and over again why sex is wrong and telling them over and over again to not do drugs cuz when you annoy them like that you know its gonna make them like it less.

:rolleyes: It is better to learn your children to have hope, see the good things in their lives and to not kill themselves than to tell them that if yeh feel you don't want to live, then go jump from a bridge.

C'jais
03-10-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Oh, come on, you know as well as me that most suicides are self-centered teenagers who's lost their girlfriend or some guy who's lost his job or something. They are not thinking clearly. And who would have benefit of killing themselves anyway? Most suiciders are young people who have a lot to live for, it's just that they can't see it.

Perhaps you're right.

But I still find it very immoral to impose your beliefs on another person. It's still a person's own choice.

We all have to get to grips with how everything passes away, s'what I'm sayin'.

El Sitherino
03-10-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Oh, come on, you know as well as me that most suicides are self-centered teenagers who's lost their girlfriend or some guy who's lost his job or something. They are not thinking clearly. And who would have benefit of killing themselves anyway? Most suiciders are young people who have a lot to live for, it's just that they can't see it. actually most suicides are by adult women and middle-aged men. i did a report on suicide for class once(it actually made the teacher think i was suicidal). anyways. usually its adult women and middle-aged men i specify adult meaning between the ages of 24-35.

Breton
03-10-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
actually most suicides are by adult women and middle-aged men. i did a report on suicide for class once(it actually made the teacher think i was suicidal). anyways. usually its adult women and middle-aged men i specify adult meaning between the ages of 24-35.

24-35 is pretty young.

SkinWalker
03-10-2003, 07:17 PM
Welllll..... lemme see if I can piss off both sides here! j/k :D

First, I have to agree that, by and large, suicide is a personal choice. However, one cannot ignore the findings of the Centers for Disease Control (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm), which point out that while 14% of all suicides that occur among those under 25 (U.S., 1999), it is the third leading cause of death among those aged 15 - 24.

Mental disorders are associated with 90% of all cases of suicide. That would indicate that the "suicider" is not, in many cases, competent enough to decide whether that is an appropriate course of action, but rather a symptom of depression or other mental illness.

Still, one also cannot ignore the history of suicide in many cultures and religions. Budists, Confucionists, and Shintoists each condone suicide as an answer to incurable illness. Ancient Egyptians viewed it as a neutral event, because death was merely a passage from one form of existence to another. It was simply a means of avoiding, disgrace, abandonment, guilt, cowardice, or loss of a loved one. Or an expression of general mistrust of the world.

While Islam strictly denounces suicide and condemns it in the Koran, certain sects of Islam certainly look at it as a means of fighting injustice (i.e. suicide bombers). Christianity also tolerated and even encouraged suicide at one time. In Japan, ritual suicide became known as hara kiri. It was accepted and respected. Not only that, it was expected in some cases, such as, dishonor, and to avoid being taken prisoner. Among military officers in nineteenth-century Europe, suicide-by-pistol was the expected response to inability to pay gambling debts.

The right and wrong of suicide is a matter of perspective. Certainly, we must attempt to prevent this act among our friends, especially if they are mentally ill or temporarily anguished. But if it is a matter of honor, would it not be more dishonorable to stand in the way of someone attempting to "atone for their sins?" If the person is suffering from an incurable disease, who are we to say "you must hold on." I'm not that selfish.... I hope.

SkinWalker

El Sitherino
03-10-2003, 07:48 PM
and the samurai if they lose possibility of keeping honor they commit sepuku. in which they take their tanto and ram it into the side of their stomach and slice it open from right to left. takin anywhere from 3 hours to 3 days for them to die.

griff38
03-10-2003, 08:20 PM
Instead of writing something new, I grabbed this from a previous
thread here in the senate.


a good thing
I think the stigma attached to suicide is misplaced. We villify and dehumanize people who take their own lives for many reasons.

It scares those who afraid of death, it insults those who think life is precious. It's selfish to the loved ones left behind. I could go on & on.

But it amazes me that western culture with it's ingrained indulgence in the individual and his or her rights would deny this ulimate act of self control.

I am already thinking that if I make it to very old age, i will probably like to die by my own hands. One final moment of self indulgence.

Having said that, I will also say the universe has been around for billions of years that I didn't get to enjoy. And it will go on for billions more without me, so what's the hurry?