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AKPiggott
03-07-2003, 03:52 PM
Damnit...

Near the end of my level, it crashes and I get this error:

G_FindConfigstringIndex: overflow adding sound/weapons/saber/bounce1 to set 266-256

Anyone got any idea what the problem is? I've never encountered it before, and the area where it appears used to work fine and I haven't made any changes to it since the last compile (when it worked fine).

AKPiggott
03-07-2003, 05:54 PM
I think I've figured out some of this problem...

It seems there's a limit to how many sounds you can have in a level, which really sucks because my level is hudely dependent on sound effects for atmopshere.

Is there a compile option or anything that can change this value?

AKPiggott
03-08-2003, 04:27 AM
Does anyone have any idea? Please? This level is very near completion and it'll be a shame if I have to cancel its release because of this stupid error.

AKPiggott
03-08-2003, 06:03 AM
OK.. I've been searching all over the net for more info on this error. I've searched gaming forums for every Quake III game that I can think of and I haven't found out much at all. It seems that the level just has too many sounds in it, which is a right pain. In its current state, it has 141 lines of dialogue. There's still about 20 lines that need adding. There's also lots of atmospheric sounds in the level. Since my last compile, the only sounds I've added are 11 lines of dialogue. So that means, if I remove the same amount of sounds, the level should work alright. But this poses a huge problem, because I don't want to remove any sounds, in fact I still want to be able to add sounds.

Is there any way I can unload sounds? For example later on in the level, I could remove the atmospheric sounds that appeared earlier on? I've tried having it so that all of the "target_speaker" entities near the start of the level are deactivated and removed later on, but I still get the error. My guess is the sound file is still registered in the level, or something.

AKPiggott
03-08-2003, 11:55 AM
Hmmm.. I coverted all of my sound effects to mono (they should've been like that anyway), that's helped prevent it, I still get the error though, but less frequently.

AKPiggott
03-08-2003, 01:19 PM
Problem solved. I lowered the quality of all the voices. They now take up a quarter of the space that they used to.

I'd like to say it's been riveting discussing this topic with you all, and thanks for all the advice you gave. I'm sure I couldn't do it without you.

AKPiggott
03-08-2003, 02:22 PM
I suppose I was wrong.

I tested the level again and the error is still there.

I swear, if I don't find a way of removing this error then I am going to scrap this level.

Code
03-08-2003, 04:47 PM
void trap_GetConfigstring( int num, char *buffer, int bufferSize )
int num: The config string to be read
char *buffer: A pointer to a buffer to fill with the config string value.
int bufferSize: The size of the buffer.

This is a server side callback used to get the value of a config string. It is only used once in the q3 source, by the G_FindConfigstringIndex function which in turn is used by the G_ModelIndex and G_SoundIndex functions.


so (i guess) its probably a problem with a model and or sound
near the end of your level ??

/me wants party crasher

hope this helps a little ...

wedge2211
03-08-2003, 05:28 PM
If it's related to the number of sounds, you could try stringing some of the ambient sounds into one file to reduce the total number...

<desperately thinks of ideas to sustain Party Crasher>

Kyle_KatarnJedi
03-08-2003, 05:28 PM
I have no idea about the error, but if it is about to many sounds, perhaps you could chop the level up from like 1 big level to perhaps 5 medium sized ones? Then Again thats a lot of work, I'll keep looking for you....

master_thomas
03-08-2003, 07:23 PM
In agreement with Kyle_KatarnJedi, you may have to chop the level. Two pieces released together could work. I think Mainframe did that(haven't played that in a while so I don't remember). This would work as Kyle_KatarnJedi said. Since one level is easier and smoother, are you sure this is the problem? Try deleting the 11 speakers you added just before the error. If this works, it is either too many sounds, or one of those sounds has a problem, so try putting those back in and temporarily removing 11 others. If this works, it is too many sounds and if it doesn't it was a faulty sound. If nothing I said works, that isn't the source.

If it is too many sounds and you aren't going to get rid of any of them, you may have to split it at a door.

Please don't cancel Party Crasher.

Kengo
03-08-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by AKPiggott
Problem solved. I lowered the quality of all the voices. They now take up a quarter of the space that they used to.

I'd like to say it's been riveting discussing this topic with you all, and thanks for all the advice you gave. I'm sure I couldn't do it without you.

This is the problem you get when you ask a question no one has a clue about, no one has ever used enough sounds in a level to have the problem before I guess? I'm sure everyone would want to help (if for nothing else then for the selfish wish to play the level), but no one wants to say anything that might be obvious to someone who knows their stuff.

All I can think of is the kind of stuff other people have already said. Spliting the level into two would be a bit of a pain I know, but it's surely massively preferable to quiting the whole project when its about 97% complete by the sound of it? There must be at least one point where there is a natural kind of break or half way intermission where you could cut it in half, I don't think any players would mind (remember all those damn load things in the middle of corridors in HL, hundreds of them).

Also as has been suggested, maybe try taking those 11 samples you added in out, and see what happens, then you can at least eliminate the possiblity that there is anything specifically wrong with them.

This is party of personal interest, but what sound quality did you set the voices down to? In Occupation I had over 10meg of voice files, and no problems of this kind, it was maybe 12 or 13 meg, I can't say for sure as the file isn't on this pc, but about that much. Was the amount you had more than that?

I had a massive problem with lights on a map a while ago, nothing I tried worked, and in the end I had to delete the lot and put em all in again. It was a pain, but it did work fine after. As a final option you could delete ALL the sound entitys in the map, all the target_speakers, compile, and see if it works. If it does, and you added them all back in, you might find it works (possibly after selecting the whole map minus those speaker entites and copying and pasting it to a new map, and saving it over the previous version - don't ask me why, it can work for some problems with no explanation) - I know this is an awful amount of time, but again it seems infinitely preferable to quiting the whole thing at this stage.

I genuinely hope you solve the problem, and I'm sure everyone else here feels the same.

AKPiggott
03-09-2003, 06:11 AM
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Splitting the level into two is not an option I'm afraid. Mace's saber will change to blue on the second level.

I e-mailed Mike at Raven, but I am yet to hear from him.

One thought I did have, the part where you fight the end boss has a lot of target_speakers. So I thought it might be that. But I tried spawning the boss earlier on in the level and the problem still persists. So there's nothing wrong with the area. I might delete all the target_speakers anyway though and replace them with a soundset trigger. The target_speakers have been in place for a while now though and I've never had this problem before. However, as well as adding those 11 samples, one of the last things I did was set the target_speakers triggerable because I could hear them throughout some of the level. It seems unlikely, but maybe that is contributing to the problem also.

AKPiggott
03-09-2003, 06:21 AM
I just an an inspiring notion...

As well as implementing the 11 sound effects and changing the target_speakers, I also added eight trigger_multiples, eight target_deactivates, eight target_activates and eight target_scriptrunners.

My guess is the level has too many entites, and I know exactly how I can cut down on them.

Emon
03-09-2003, 07:12 PM
I say you try Q3Map2 again. Version 2.5.2 completely redid the raytracing code and made a huge number of changes. 2.5.3 added lightstyle support for JO and SoF2.

There's a decent chance it would work now. Remember, Q3Map2 cuts down on numbers of entities in the actual BSP, e.g. light entities.

Emon
03-09-2003, 07:18 PM
You can also use fx_runners to simulate the ghost object sound used in JK.

Just make an EFX file, add a sound object, give it volume, radius, etc. In the entity's properties, set it's loop time to the exact length of the sound in milliseconds, which you can find with Goldwave or another utility. Pong! You have a new way of adding sound that's more flexible than target_speakers.

AKPiggott
03-10-2003, 05:48 AM
I'll try Q3Map2, but it probably won't work again.

Can you please list what extensions I need on it to make a full compile?

Emon
03-10-2003, 08:53 AM
q3map2 -game jk2 -bsp -meta -patchmeta
q3map2 -game jk2 -vis
q3map2 -game jk2 -light -fast -patchshadows -super 2 -filter

Add -bounce 8 to the light stage for radiosity, but that will have to go overnight, possibly into the day (8 bounces, it's like relighting the map 8 times) but looks amazing if used right.

Leslie Judge
03-10-2003, 10:19 AM
Emon, what about fs_game and fs_base?

AKPiggott
03-10-2003, 01:32 PM
It's OK, I found my old Q3Map2 BAT.

Damnit... I forgot how slow Q3Map2 is on "vis", it takes about three times as long as SOF2Map.

AKPiggott
03-10-2003, 03:31 PM
After five hours of compiling (as opposed to SOF2Maps two and a half), I was greeted with this:

http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10280.jpg

Although the error is pretty much the same in effect, the message given is different. It used to say "NullPolyShader ERROR".

Code
03-10-2003, 05:38 PM
originay posted by shadriss in the WIP:RPG commenor thread
he was referering to the error "NullPolyShader ERROR"

OK, I got it all figured out. I's always been under the impresion that that error happened because you were using to many shader FILES. THis, ,apparently, was incorrect. It's how many surfaces a shader is applied TOO that causes this.


hope this helps

wedge2211
03-10-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by AKPiggott
Damnit... I forgot how slow Q3Map2 is on "vis", it takes about three times as long as SOF2Map.

?

master_thomas
03-10-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by AKPIGGOT

Splitting the level into two is not an option I'm afraid. Mace's saber will change to blue on the second level.

In your other thread "Suggestions for SP editors" I think it was, didn't someone post a solution to this? This may only work when hitting the new game icon, but I hope this works. If not, you can always switch the gfx/effects/sabers/blue_glow2.jpg and gfx/effects/sabers/blue_line.jpg and the purple ones so the default blue saber is purple. That way, it will always be purple as long as the mod is activated.

Emon
03-10-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by master_thomas
In your other thread "Suggestions for SP editors" I think it was, didn't someone post a solution to this? This may only work when hitting the new game icon, but I hope this works. If not, you can always switch the gfx/effects/sabers/blue_glow2.jpg and gfx/effects/sabers/blue_line.jpg and the purple ones so the default blue saber is purple. That way, it will always be purple as long as the mod is activated.

The dynamic light color won't change.

Emon
03-10-2003, 08:15 PM
I've never known why AK's maps take longer to vis in Q3Map2, it's the exact opposite for others.

AK, post that on the Q3Map2 support forum, I think there's a solution to it.

master_thomas
03-10-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Emon
The dynamic light color won't change.

:( That is a problem that I didn't think of-I only edited sabers in my mod to give all the noticable color to the glow(according to the movie pictures, this is more accurate) so I didn't have to change the color and didn't encounter that problem. Maybe, you could find the file that determines the dynamic light circle color and tweak that. I did hear about adding dynamic light to weapons and shots, though I don't know if it will work with the saber. In weapons.dat, find the lines in merr sonn about shot light, shot light color, altshot light, and altshot light color(I think those are the line names, if not, find the light related stuff). Copy and paste those into other weapons in the same spot. I made the Destructive electromagnetic pulse gun (weapon 7) emit a green light(I'm trying to make it purple) and the flechette shots emit yellow light. It nicely adds more realism. It will add dynamic light that emanates from the saber, blast, bolt, etc. Then edit those in like you would edit those for ambient light, though the light value can be higher of course because this isn't ambient. You might not change the little circle at your feet, but it could generate purple light. Maybe a weak red dynamic light to counter the blue for purple would work, though I doubt it would look good, I hope the weapon.dat editing will work, if not, I don't know how to change the saber-glow-circle unless there is some way to change the default color from blue to purple. I'll look for the dynamic light file now and see if I can name it.

I know you want this level to be as great as possible and I'm sure that a saber problem would be an unnecessarily disappointing problem. I hope to help as much as possible.

Emon
03-10-2003, 11:42 PM
I'm working on a SP series of levels myself, and when I find time to really get going on them, I'll look into using that method. I thought of it before, but I wasn't sure if it would work or interfere with the color of other NPC's sabers.

Unfortunatly, it looks like my player will be stuck with blue. :(

master_thomas
03-11-2003, 12:20 AM
I just noticed in NPC.cfg that there is a sabercolor variable. You could just change Kyle's to purple. This all depends on whether this will affect both Kyle's or just the NPC_kyle hence the name NPC.cfg. If it works for the PC, this is solved and the technical problem of two levels is hopefully solved and if it has, you just half to split the level, which although will take more work and you have worked so much, so hard already, but this could fix it. If it was a faulty entity that needs to be fixed or replaced, this is unnecessary. If it doesn't work, there is almost definitely something that will set the PC's info including sabercolor. I will test this now.

Emon
03-11-2003, 12:30 AM
That has been tried, doesn't work for the player.

master_thomas
03-11-2003, 12:43 AM
DARN!!:mad:. I decided to reply immediately with the negative answer and read Emon's post. So I guess AKPiggot is stuck either fixing the existing level, or editing the sabers and removing those with blue lightsabers or swapping the blue and purple names and giving all blue lightsaber users purple sabers and then finding and editing the dlight glows. Any feedback on the weapons.cfg dlight settings? Is there any known player cfg? It would make sense.
A question about NPC.cfg, though. Why are there two kyles in the NPC.cfg, one with the Full name, lightsaber color, and models as kyle, but named munro:confused:?

The problem lingers on.:(

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Emon
AK, post that on the Q3Map2 support forum, I think there's a solution to it.

I can't really be bothered. I've spent far too much time fussing about trying to get Q3Map2 to work as it is. I'll just stick with SOF2Map, at least it only takes half as long to compile.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 05:50 AM
I've just done a bit of testing, and I've found that the original error is still apparent after being compiled with Q3Map2.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 06:02 AM
OK, I went to see if I've hit any sort of limit here, so I looked in Radiant and found that my level has 8538 brushes and 2817 entities.

Looking at some Raven levels, kejim_post has 7854 brushes and 1998 entities, and cairn_dock1 has 2105 entities and 5195 brushes.

This is good news. This evidence suggests that I have far too many entities in my level. Seeing that I was placing entities carelessly with no thought of any limit in the level, this means there's a lot of expendable entities, most notably waypoints and a few NPCs.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 06:27 AM
Well... I've just deleted over 80 entities. There was a non-combat area that had loads of waypoints and point_combats, it seemed pointless keeping them there, so I deleted them.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 06:57 AM
I've just deleted another 140 odd... I'll leave the level to compile when I go out later, I should be able to test if anything's been fixed tonight.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 08:12 AM
I tested it on a "novis" compile, it's still there, but it is even rarer. I guess deleting entites is the way to go, but I'm going to have to do delete some more.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 08:30 AM
Has anyone ever had any success activating / deactivating entities with ICARUS "set INACTIVE"? I seem to remember trying it out and it didn't work, if it does work like I want it to, there's about 50 or so "target_activate" and "target_deactivate" entities that I could delete.

AKPiggott
03-11-2003, 08:41 AM
Hmm.. I tested "SET_INACTIVE", either it doesn't work with triggers or it doesn't work at all.

Kengo
03-11-2003, 01:27 PM
How about giving some entities a targetname (or script_targetname maybe? dunno which...) and then using the remove command on them? If it works for NPCs...

Remember all those problems with limits in JK, and they were all along the root of 2 or something, I'm just gonna get my calculator and try to find a theoretical limit...

I also have memories of monsoontide posting somethign about actual limits a long while back, I'll see what I can find...

Kengo
03-11-2003, 01:34 PM
#define MAX_MAP_MODELS 0x400 = 1024#define
MAX_MAP_BRUSHES 0x8000 = 32768#define
MAX_MAP_ENTITIES 0x800 = 2048#define
MAX_MAP_ENTSTRING 0x40000 = 262144#define
MAX_MAP_SHADERS 0x400 = 1024#define
MAX_MAP_AREAS 0x100 = 256#define
MAX_MAP_FOGS 0x100 = 256#define
MAX_MAP_PLANES 0x20000 = 131072 #define
MAX_MAP_NODES 0x20000 = 131072#define
MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES 0x20000 = 131072#define
MAX_MAP_LEAFS 0x20000 = 131072#define
MAX_MAP_LEAFFACES 0x20000 = 131072#define
MAX_MAP_LEAFBRUSHES 0x40000 = 262144#define
MAX_MAP_PORTALS 0x20000 = 131072#define
MAX_MAP_LIGHTING 0x800000 = 8388608#define
MAX_MAP_LIGHTGRID 0x800000 = 8388608#define
MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY 0x200000 = 2097152#define
MAX_MAP_DRAW_SURFS 0x20000 = 131072#define
MAX_MAP_DRAW_VERTS 0x80000 = 524288#define
MAX_MAP_DRAW_INDEXES 0x80000 = 524288

Thank you monsoontide, wherver you now may be!

Erm, one of those Raven levels looks like its over the limit...possibly some on the entities counted in the map file (func_groups) don't count in the bsp so its not a problem? Anyway, sounds like that might be your problem, possibly :confused:

2048 is of course a power of 2. Erm, that thread monsoontide started, stickied to the top of the forusm, does have some other good links that look handy. I think someone asked in that thread for a solution to the same problem you have, and monsoontide couldn't find anything on it, but I dunno...

Emon
03-11-2003, 05:32 PM
That's why I suggested compiling with Q3Map2, since it strips the light entities out of your map, lowering your entity count.

If 2048 is the entity limit, why do so many of Raven's levels have more? That's got to be the limit for the MP code, but the SP code must be more... Unless all those extra ents are func_groups. :(

Emon
03-11-2003, 05:34 PM
AK, try setting your saber color in a test map, then setting the HUB spawnflag on the target_levelchange entity. In the EF expansion, it let you traverse back and forth between levels like Deus Ex can. I talked to Raven about it, they said it should work unless it got broken in the conversion. I never got it to work myself, but I want to experiment with the idea more.

My point is that if it doesn't do a savegame, you can see if it will save the saber color.

master_thomas
03-11-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Emon

If 2048 is the entity limit, why do so many of Raven's levels have more? That's got to be the limit for the MP code, but the SP code must be more... Unless all those extra ents are func_groups.

I checked Kejim_Post, which has 1998 entities (not the amount we're looking for) and it has 150 func_groups and Cairn_dock1 with 2105 entities and 76 func_groups, so I think that's how they could have kept under the limit.. Just a question, what does Radiant ommit in the counter at the bottom of the screen? For kejim_post, it says 1407 entities, but in the map info, it says 1998. :confused:

I'll think of ways to make Party Crasher more entity efficient. Never tried the actication/deactivation with icarus. Only entity settings and cutscenes; sorry:(. Keep searching for waypoints. Raven put a huge cluster of them at the beginning of Kejim_post. There seems to be a waypoint or point combat once every 8 game units. Could you replace a group of enemies with a few more powerful ones?

I'll continue brainstorming. Good luck with fixing Party Crasher.

master_thomas
03-12-2003, 12:15 AM
Any guns or ammo? You can pretty much remove all remote ammunition and weapons (not carried by NPC). You're Mace Windu and don't wield guns very often. Same with medpacks and bacta, seekers, assault sentries, etc. You don't need these because as a Jedi Master you should be more reliant on the force and lightsaber. Not guns, attack droids and medical equipment.

You've been over speakers and this has been mentioned, but linking sounds with programs like goldwave.

Models. You probably want to keep those so won't recommend that.

You could have less triggers. Yo could spawn NPC's earlier with less triggers in places where you don't mind what they do, though you need to watch framerate.

Any removable funcs? Double doors aren't necessary. Syncronized bobbers can be one entity, same with rotating (as long as they share a rotational axis and will rotate along and exact point.)

Fx files. They are ambience and can't be linked of course, but can you remove some? I won't pressure this for the same reason as models and sounds.

NPC mobs can be replaced by smaller groups of stronger NPCs. This could also improve framerate.:) Some battles can be removed altogether along with more waypoints.

Waypoints are perfect for removal. They aren't noticed by the player and the enemies that last longer usually don't need waypoints(unless things like galak_mech or mark1 and 2). Stormtroopers, swamptroopers, storm pilots are gone with a single slash. Reborn and other lightsaber wielders don't require waypoints.

Did I leave any out? I think I covered all those that can be easily removed. and ones you wouldn't want to remove.

Leslie Judge
03-12-2003, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by Emon
That's why I suggested compiling with Q3Map2, since it strips the light entities out of your map, lowering your entity count. And as I know it strips out the static models too by converting them to map triangles. Ehh, I don't remember exactly the explanation but it can be found on Splash Damage forums.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 05:51 AM
There are absolutely no pickups in the level, apart from guns dropped by NPCs (which I'm trying to get rid of). The player has to rely on the use of force powers and the lightsaber to succeed.

I might remove some enemies. Also, I have a Mace Windu cutscene actor for every cutscene, I might remove all of them and use the one same actor for all of them.

I've removed one hundred or so waypoints as well as about one hundred and fifty point_combats. I'm not sure if there are anymore that could be removed.

I could (as a very last resort) cut down on a couple of cutscene camera angles.

What about lights? I guess I could remove quite a few of them.

master_thomas
03-12-2003, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Emon

That's why I suggested compiling with Q3Map2, since it strips the light entities out of your map, lowering your entity count.

That is why I ommited lights. Of course, you would have a high compile time as you explained, but maybe when removing the lights will give you an entity count below 2048. If there are a good amount of lights in your map, this would work great. Also, remember to subtract the func_groups from the entity count.

[I[Originally posted by Emon[/I]
And as I know it strips out the static models too by converting them to map triangles. Ehh, I don't remember exactly the explanation but it can be found on Splash Damage forums.

This makes it even better. How many entities do you have minus func_groups, lights, and models. If it is below 2048, it should work with Q3Map2. Wait until then to try this that if it takes +5 hours. Who wants to have to wait 5 hours to know if deleting 1 entity fixed their map?

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 08:48 AM
Here's some specifics:

The level at the moment has 2534 entities.

774 of those entites are func_groups.

63 are func_usables.

52 func_doors.

87 info_nulls (I believe these are removed when the level is loaded in-game).

416 entity lights.

159 misc_models.

164 point_combats.

8 target_speakers.

4 trigger_hurts.

101 trigger_multiples.

42 trigger_onces.

94 waypoints.

Minus the func_groups, it's well below 2048.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 08:52 AM
I might try recompiling the level with Q3Map2 after deleting my custom shaders. If the level compiles fine, I'll stick the shaders back and work on reducing their use in the level.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 09:20 AM
Does anyone know how to find out the number of shader surfaces in the level?

Also, are "clip", "caulk", "trigger" and the other system surfaces counted in this total? It would explain quite a bit if so, I've got the impression that SOF2Map probably ignores these textures as shaders whilst Q3Map2 takes them into consideration during compile. Maybe my shader surface total is only over 1024 when all the system shaders are taken into consideration. I'll try compiling without the system shader and see what happens.

wedge2211
03-12-2003, 02:01 PM
As far as I know, q3map2 eliminates light entities, func_groups, and info_nulls during the compile process, so you can subtract all of those from your entity count in the final BSP. That should help your entity count quite a bit.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 02:37 PM
I've compiled it again with SOF2Map, I was hoping with the structral brushes in place, it might've made an impact on the overflow error. I still get it, but it's once again even less frequent.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 02:52 PM
One thing I've found that does fix the error is removing all of the new voices that I stuck in just before this error came about.

Perhaps that is the only solution.... which is bloody annoying, because I still have 20 or so lines of dialogue to stick in.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 03:30 PM
Is there any playback rate for MP3s that JO supports apart from 44100?

Emon
03-12-2003, 05:19 PM
44K! :eek: I didn't think it supported over 22K!

You should try the old JK technique. Open a voice from JO in Goldwave, select all and delete it, reduce length to the size of your file or smaller (easiest to just make it like .1 seconds, it'll expand), then paste your voice into that and save it. You can never go wrong with that.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 05:22 PM
I remember trying a sound that wasn't 44K and I got an error saying it wasn't 44K or something.

What do you mean Emon? Replace unused JO sounds with blank files so that they are used instead?

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 05:27 PM
Oh yeah Emon, you might be able to help me with this.

I'm trying to stop enemies from dropping weapons when they die. I've devised one method that almost works:

I give the NPC a spawnscript which sets the NPC to undying and defies a deathscript.

The deathscript sets the NPC's weapon to "none", turns undying off and then kills the NPC.

The problem is in the deathscript. I can't find any way to kill the NPC without giving a targetname (the "kill" command in ICARUS) I've tried setting the health to 0, that doesn't work, neither does setting it to a negative number. The only way I can get this to work is to give each individual NPC an "npc_targetname" and their own unique deathscript which uses the "kill" command along with their unique targetname, that is a ridiculous way of doing it that will take far too long. Any ideas on any alternatives?

master_thomas
03-12-2003, 05:48 PM
Maybe you could look for whatever keeps pistol holding imperials from letting go of their weaponry. Then try to apply that to the other gun holding NPCs (This could be a bit time consuming and I'm not at all sure this will work, this just came into my mind when I read the latest posts). As both AKPiggot and I said about pickups, you are a jedi master and have no need for them and so you ignore them and they have no purpose to you.

AKPiggott
03-12-2003, 06:19 PM
I've also developed a theory to the level changing with keeping the saber colour.

Does anyone know if a custom MENU file can be launched through ICARUS?

wedge2211
03-12-2003, 06:51 PM
I remember reading somewhere or other that there's some special texture that makes NPCs not drop their weapons upon death, perhaps "nodrop." You could, I suppose, blanket the level with a big one of those brushes...

Leslie Judge
03-12-2003, 08:07 PM
I saw some of the JO mp3s that they are VBR mp3s. This can reduce the file size a bit.

Oh, and you can make a universal deathscript if you use parameters to give the NPC_targetname of the NPCs to the script. In the ICARUS manul you can find a very good explanation about the get command.

Emon
03-12-2003, 10:56 PM
1. AK, I meant open a JO voice file, remove it's contents and paste your own voice in, then save it, so it's in the right format.

2. Custom menu files? I don't think so. I tried changing cvars in the HUD and other related menu files, no luck. What exactly is your theory?

AKPiggott
03-13-2003, 06:00 AM
My thoery was you can get a MENU file to execute a console script as soon as its loaded, if you could load MENU files from ICARUS, then you can effectively load console commands. I saw the menu command in ICARUS before, but I only checked it out thoroughly yesterday, you can only pick from the "newgame", "main" and "bio" (objectives, I guess?) menus.

AKPiggott
03-13-2003, 07:23 AM
OK.. it's been a hard decision but I've made my mind up...

I'm going to cancel........................... some bits of the level. There was some really cool bits I had planned for it... a puzzle at the beginning that required you to go around and interact with characters and a multiple path through the last third or so of the level which also had a bit of character interaction. This really does bother me a lot, but I have to remind myself that I did the exact same thing for all the BoaMs and all the ToaMs and those levels still managed to prove hugely popular with the community. Thankfully, the story elements of the level will still remain completely untouched and there are still lots of cool atmospheric stuff that I'll leave in the level.

I've always believed that mistakes and problems like this are a huge experience benefit. I still consider myself to be a relative newbie to the Quake III engine and there's still a lot I can learn. What I know now about the technical limitations of the engine is completely invaluable expereince for my next editing project.

Also, with all this cool stuff cancelled, it'll shave a while off of the release date. Actually come to think of it, all I've got left to do is the final cutscene and the level is finished.

Emon
03-13-2003, 08:31 AM
Don't give up so easily. I have a few ideas I will try after school today.

What is the error you're getting now?

Kengo
03-13-2003, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by AKPiggott
One thing I've found that does fix the error is removing all of the new voices that I stuck in just before this error came about.

Perhaps that is the only solution.... which is bloody annoying, because I still have 20 or so lines of dialogue to stick in.

Is there any chance it's something to do with these actual files themselves causing the problems, instead of you going over some kind of sound file limit for a level? I had about 13 meg of sound files in Occupation, almost all in cutscenes, do you have more than that?

Even if you can't solve the problem, your last post sounds really positive, and I think it's the right way to look at the situation. Like you said, you gotta play to the limitations of the engine, which can be a damn hard thing for ambitious level editors to do sometimes, but everything like this is a learning experience. In the long run even if not in the near future, I'm sure the lightsaber colour problem amongst others will get sorted!

AKPiggott
03-13-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Emon
Don't give up so easily. I have a few ideas I will try after school today.

What is the error you're getting now?

The same one I've been getting all along. I got an e-mail back from Mike at Raven, here's what he's had to say:

First of all, sorry for the late response, I just got back from vacation.

Basically, it sounds like you have too much stuff on your map. The configstrings is just a chunk of memory that the game uses to store all the names of all the models, sounds, effects, etc. that it's going to need on the map and sends that to the cgame so the cgame can load up all those sounds, models, effects, etc. There's really no way for a mod to increase that limit right now. If you want, though, I suppose you could send me your .pk3 file (with your bsp, textures and any other files in it that I need to run your map) and I could take a look at what's eating up all your configstring room and make suggestions on how to optimize that. We're moving to another building this week, though, so I may not get to look at it until next week.

Basically, I've got to go along with the slightly stripped version of the level. Even if we could make the lightsaber thing go over more than one level, I can't be bothered with all the hassle of splitting it in two. What I am going to do is take what will make it into the level and develop it a bit more and make it better, that should help compensate for the stuff that was cut out.

ioshee
03-13-2003, 04:43 PM
I understand you donít want to split it into two levels, but just for educational purposes could someone tell me what that would involve? Every one keeps saying it would be a huge pain.

I assumed it would just mean saving your map as ďmymap2.mapĒ. Then you could delete half the level in the new .map file and the other half in the first .map file. After that couldnít you just cause the second one to load when you reach a certain point with scripting and the like?

Please let me know if Iím misunderstanding the whole thingy.

Kengo
03-13-2003, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by ioshee
I understand you donít want to split it into two levels, but just for educational purposes could someone tell me what that would involve? Every one keeps saying it would be a huge pain.

I assumed it would just mean saving your map as ďmymap2.mapĒ. Then you could delete half the level in the new .map file and the other half in the first .map file. After that couldnít you just cause the second one to load when you reach a certain point with scripting and the like?

Please let me know if Iím misunderstanding the whole thingy.

I don't think having a level change is the problem in itself. AK has a purple saber set for the level, and at the moment no one knows how to make a changed saber colour remain for any level after the first (because of the way it's done at the moment), and if Mace has a purple saber in the first level, then a blue one for the second, well, that isn't great for continuality purposes :)

Emon
03-13-2003, 07:24 PM
I've tried running various console commands in various text files, no luck. I thought it might work in the hud.menu, but the console reports that it's all unrecognized. :(

I've also experimented more with the HUB option on the target_level_change. I accidentally put the BSP extention onto the mapname key, and when I tried to trigger it, I got messages in the console about how it couldn't find the file and didn't have access to save the game. That option is supposed to save your progress and load any that the next map has. It appears that it saves the data, but doesn't load it. If we had get and set cvar ents like in SoF2, and an ent to load a game, I could rig a version of it myself.

Is there any way to do a load command or autoload of any kind at the start of a level?

wedge2211
03-13-2003, 08:10 PM
Couldn't you just load it as two separate mods? PARTY CRASHER PART 1 and PARTY CRASHER PART 2? That way, they would both be the "first" level.

ioshee
03-13-2003, 08:28 PM
Well I'm color blind so I can't tell the diff between purple and blue sabers. So no problem...

...well no problem if he is making Party Crasher for color blind people only.

master_thomas
03-13-2003, 09:19 PM
originally posted by Kengo

no one knows how to make a changed saber colour remain for any level after the first

Try someone from Raven. They should know, at least one of the makers. Whoever knows how they change the saber color to blue for every level, should know how this was done. When you know, change one word(blue) to another(purple) every time it appears in game. If you can't find the guys who would know, find the ones who designed the saber and go back to my second and third posts:). If niether can be found, either you're stuck stripping it down to a smaller size, or having someone steal Mace's lightsaber and being forced to use a blue lightsaber that was given to you by....................... On to level 2. Gives another personal objective:retrieve your lightsaber. One of the few purple ones before the galactic empire.:rolleyes:This is a large amount of work: new sounds, skins for the theif(or you could have the final boss pull it out of your hand with the force, which won't need any new skins:), more scripts, which you probably already have an overwhelming number of, inspiration on how to make a cutscene like the one in your cutscene article, which was very nice, etc.

In my map, which I keep making reference to, I only have one cutscene, which has little purpose (I have to struggle to explain the story because I don't have a microphone for voice acting:(, it shows Luke behind a forcefield and a bunch of reborn behind you.(There's no room for others because the level is a short introduction to what will be a series based on feedback on my first level). I need testers before I am done and ready to distribute. Mine haven't been ready for a month lol. First they kept asking for more time, then it wouldn't fit on a floppy, then they asked me to e-mail it to them(they are brothers), but their internet service won't allow that and they didn't tell me their e-mail addresses. I was done a while ago and have used the time to add that dynamic lighting I think I mentioned on this and made the bryar shots green(I was bored). I guess I'll look for beta testers on the forums.

Anyway, you have put much work on this map already and it seems to be the best JK2 map ever made:). More good luck from me.

To Ioshee, I'm sorry for you. My brothers-in-law are color blind too.

Emon
03-13-2003, 09:23 PM
1. AK, if you don't want Mace to use other weapons, can't you just lock the player's weapon to the saber, or did that cause problems? You could also blanket the level in nodrop as someone else suggested.

2. Yes, the saber is "set to blue", so to speak, at the start of each level, but I'm almost completely certain that's hardcoded, which we cannot change.

If Raven didn't want to bother making entities for many different functions and for mod making (expandability), they should have let us just make our own entities. :(

master_thomas
03-13-2003, 09:53 PM
This reminds me. Isn't Kyle's saber supposed to be green? I think this is mentioned and I haven't played anything else from this series, though I'm planning to. Just seems ironic that they would force you to have the wrong saber color.

Anyway, if Emon's right, and I hope he's not, AKPiggot may be stuck stripping his level down to accomodate the limits of the engine or follow the stolen lightsaber idea.

On to the entities, maybe they thought they had covered everything that could possibly be needed.



Originally posted by Emon
1. AK, if you don't want Mace to use other weapons, can't you just lock the player's weapon to the saber, or did that cause problems? You could also blanket the level in nodrop as someone else suggested.

Are you wondering why we're trying to weapons other than the saber is to drop the entity count. I never knew the purpose of the nodraw shader, but I'm probably never going to use it myself, although it is perfect for this scenario. I said that he is a jedi master and doesn't use items other than the saber was a reason to logically remove them.

Kengo
03-13-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by master_thomas
This reminds me. Isn't Kyle's saber supposed to be green? I think this is mentioned and I haven't played anything else from this series, though I'm planning to. Just seems ironic that they would force you to have the wrong saber color.

Anyway, if Emon's right, and I hope he's not, AKPiggot may be stuck stripping his level down to accomodate the limits of the engine or follow the stolen lightsaber idea.


I think if anyone knew how to change the saber colour in this kind of way it would be Emon.

Katarn's lightsaber was Green in JK I think, I was kinda confused by him having a blue one in JO...I've never played JK so I don't know if he lost his green one at some time during that...

Weirdly, in TPM Mace had a blue saber apparently. I don't know how anyone knows, as I can't remember any saber usage from him...in the promotional shots it was blue I think. There is some long bit on the SW site describing this, and how he must have 'lost' the blue one in the intervening 10 years. Somehow, he doesn't seem quite the same without a purple one, to me anyway :)

master_thomas
03-13-2003, 11:25 PM
That will be two lost sabers!( one only temporary, following my storyline workaround for the split level idea) Master Windu should take better care of his saber.:lol:

My 100th post; yay.

Anyway, wasn't the purple saber Samuel L. Jackson's request? Maybe this was after the promotional shots. This would be perfect. Mace can have two lightsabers, but the blue one is his "emergency lightsaber" lol. Some sort of sentimental value makes him use the purple one usually, but he has no choice. This could fix AK's problem without reducing the level. Make a short cutscene connected to the robbery as a flashback. This is at the beginning, when the saber can be stolen. Then, you don't need the purple saber at all! It can be blue and have the split in the middle.

AKPiggot, if you haven't commited to another solution, you can use this. Post your basic storyline and I could think about it annd post a workaround that incorporates two levels with a blue lightsaber.

AKPiggott
03-14-2003, 06:15 AM
I'm definately not splitting the level. I am going to go along with the stripped level idea. I'm not actually taking anything out of the level I've made already, I'm just adding less. It's a perfectly good level as it stands and I know people will enjoy playing it. I hope to put a beta round soon, so I'll know for sure then.

People won't even notice that it's been stripped down. I mean, nobody realised that BoaM3 was missing two sub-plots and a load of puzzles that I wanted to add in.

Originally posted by wedge2211
Couldn't you just load it as two separate mods? PARTY CRASHER PART 1 and PARTY CRASHER PART 2? That way, they would both be the "first" level.

I thought of that... but we'd end up with two short levels and it'll kinda destroy the flow between them.

Originally posted by Emon
1. AK, if you don't want Mace to use other weapons, can't you just lock the player's weapon to the saber, or did that cause problems? You could also blanket the level in nodrop as someone else suggested.

2. Yes, the saber is "set to blue", so to speak, at the start of each level, but I'm almost completely certain that's hardcoded, which we cannot change.

If Raven didn't want to bother making entities for many different functions and for mod making (expandability), they should have let us just make our own entities. :(

1. I'll try the nodrop... I didn't even know there was such a thing.

2. Mike told me it's definately hardcoded... the game was so rushed towards the end, they were unable to soft-code parts of it for the benefit of editors.

AKPiggott
03-14-2003, 09:18 AM
I tried "nodrop", it just made the enemies disappear when I killed them.

AKPiggott
03-14-2003, 04:22 PM
Everything is in place in the level now, but the error is still there. Basically all I have to do is keep removing sounds until the error disappears. Then all I have to do is finish the ending cutscene (it's in a seperate BSP), fine tune a few things, replace some stand-in lines and then wait for Toonces to finish off the facial boned Yoda model. Then the level will be released.

I've made a short trailer, it's not particuarly good but I might release it seeing as it's been weeks and weeks since I last released a screenshot.

Emon
03-14-2003, 07:09 PM
You should try using fx_runners instead of target_speakers, they might not "suck up" as much stuff.

AKPiggott
03-15-2003, 08:02 AM
Well, I just played the level again and the problem seems to have disappeared after deleting a few lines of expedable dialogue. The only way you can trigger it is by spawning NPCs that aren't in the config string index.