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Temujin
03-07-2003, 09:47 PM
Hey,
I've played a LOAD of mods and seen some great custom weapons, but I've seen some really ****ty ones too. I just want to see if you're going to be making any progress on weapons in the game soon... Such as skins, sprite developement, or maybe some information on where you are. Also, I want the fist to work! SERIOUSLY, WITHOUT A DAMAGE FIST THIS MOD WILL SUCK! But, considering how far you've come I must say I'm impressed. NICE SNOWTROOPER MODEL!!! I do want to suggest some better textures on the Pig, but other than that I'm glad you've made your own models instead of using ones off JediKnightII.net
I'm enthusiastic paticularly about this mod becuase you are using the JediKnightII engine which is a VERY AWSOME ONE! I wanted to see it's modability in use. Please update me on the following questions and suggestions. THANKS!
:fire11: :blueblas1

Darth_Linux
03-08-2003, 12:20 PM
thanks Temujin

skin progress on the weapons is coming along. We've only got a couple of guys doing weapon skins and one of them is really busy with college right now, so progress is slow. As soon as we get one finished you can be assured there will be an update.

Weapon EFX (sprites as you called them) have made some progress, but until we get the weapon code a little more done it isn't worth spending too much time adjusting the EFX just yet. I have done some preliminary work but I'm waiting for the code team to finish up some real life projects before they make some more progress on the weapon code.

We are totally redoing the whole FIST weapon piece (replacing the stun baton) and it will definately do damage. How much isn't decided upon yet, but rest assured it's under way.

That's about all I can offer at this point. College is taking most of the teams time unfortunetly, so hang in there, spring break is coming soon!




Originally posted by Temujin
Hey,
I've played a LOAD of mods and seen some great custom weapons, but I've seen some really ****ty ones too. I just want to see if you're going to be making any progress on weapons in the game soon... Such as skins, sprite developement, or maybe some information on where you are. Also, I want the fist to work! SERIOUSLY, WITHOUT A DAMAGE FIST THIS MOD WILL SUCK! But, considering how far you've come I must say I'm impressed. NICE SNOWTROOPER MODEL!!! I do want to suggest some better textures on the Pig, but other than that I'm glad you've made your own models instead of using ones off JediKnightII.net
I'm enthusiastic paticularly about this mod becuase you are using the JediKnightII engine which is a VERY AWSOME ONE! I wanted to see it's modability in use. Please update me on the following questions and suggestions. THANKS!
:fire11: :blueblas1

Temujin
03-10-2003, 01:31 AM
Hey,
I love the way you guys have so much response time. Anyway, I think that it's great how you guys have assured fist damage. Thank God... What colleges are you going to? How the hell do you find time to do this ****?:blast9: :fire2:

Darth_Linux
03-10-2003, 01:54 AM
I'm a Music Education Major at Whitworth College. I have about 2 hours a week to put into the project at the moment :(

Ravensroke
03-11-2003, 12:36 AM
I sorta do textures anytime I feel like it. I have plenty of time I guess, since I'm not in college yet. I hope to finish all the textures I need to do before college.

Temujin
03-24-2003, 08:47 PM
I like the new Kyle model, and I'm hoping it will be inserted into the demo and available for download soon.:sbdance
By the way, homestarrunner.com is pretty funny

EnforcerSG
04-01-2003, 08:40 PM
I hate to complain, but looking at the weapon models, I do have a few sugestions. The big one is the concusion rifle. In DF, that is a slim sexy beast, but it looks like a cannon from the picture of it. That, the the repeaters stock seems a tad too bent and short.

Those are just my opinions, but I liked how they looked in the original DF. There are some nice renders of most of the weapons in the hint manuel.

However, you are making the mod, not me, and the shape of a weapon won't matter, it will still be the best mod there is!

The_One
04-03-2003, 04:15 PM
I must admit, we have really crappy weapons... :rolleyes:

http://www.synthzone.com/~mschreier/df/imprep/imprep_newshot5.jpg

http://www.synthzone.com/~mschreier/df/imprep/imprep_newshot6.jpg

That's the most you're gonna see of the weapon models until they're ALL skinned :p

That is Salv and Fracman's handywork - still WIP :)

Katarn07
04-03-2003, 04:31 PM
AWESOME!

That was my favorite weapon, until I got it and JK and it was actually a repeater. Will you make the repeater in the mod shoot as fast as in JK?

StormHammer
04-03-2003, 05:13 PM
I agree with Katarn07. That looks fantastic. :thumbsup: Keep up the excellent work, people. :cool:

ImmolatedYoda
04-04-2003, 04:35 PM
that looks freaking SWEET!!

EnforcerSG
04-04-2003, 05:59 PM
It looks a little big, but it looks awsome.

Do the shells(?) move? Or would it happen so fast you dont see it?

Fracman
04-05-2003, 02:51 AM
Katarn07 wrote:
Will you make the repeater in the mod shoot as fast as
in JK?

I don't remember the repeater in JK, but compared the one from DF: Yes, even a tick faster ;-)
We took the weapon logic of the JO Heavy Repeater and just changed the color of the primary weapon. The secondary weapon fire needed a modification of the code, but it's still firing too slowly, we have to make it twice faster.

EnforcerSG wrote:
Do the shells(?) move? Or would it happen so fast you dont see it?

You mean the shell charges loading mechanism? You're right, I can't see them moving ;-)
To be honest, we already have been thinking of it, but it's not yet implemented.
The movement could be seen on secondary fire, but I doubt it would be slow enough to be noticed on primary fire.

Fracman

Temujin
04-16-2003, 05:49 PM
Wow, pretty nice of you to give us some screenshots... Perhaps you'd post some more for us? Anyway, I hope you can work on the secondary fire ****, and I hope you can get rid of the darn pistol to stop that gay charge up that is supposed to be disabled.:headbump

Jeff 42
04-16-2003, 09:58 PM
What? No, don't get rid of the charge-up on the Bryar. Considering the vastly improved enemy A.I. and the vastly more inaccurate stormtrooper rifle in JO, taking away the ability to charge up Bryar shots would make things very difficult before you get more powerful weapons.

Geoffrey S
04-17-2003, 01:25 PM
Wow, that weapon looks just right. Great job, guys.

HapSlash
04-17-2003, 02:23 PM
I've got a question,...

How were you planning on making the Gamorreans Axe, by replacing the light saber?

Could it possibly be made into a useable weapon?

Fracman
04-17-2003, 05:10 PM
How to modify weapons...

Like with any other weapon, the first step is to find a weapon in JO that has a similar logic.
The lightsabre does not exist in DF and therefore has to be replaced. Since it has similar movements, cuts through material and also has no firing function (that emits projectiles like most of the other weapons), it is indeed a good candidate.

The next step is to create a 3D model (a pair of MD3 and GLM for first person and "external" view) of the Axe.

Then a texture artists will paint the corresponding skin textures and perhaps (s)he or someone else will create a shader to have the blade look like reflecting metal with some spots and scratches.

In parallel a coder will modify the MP source code functions to replace the lightsabre by the axe.
That means to modify the sounds, the damage point settings, the movements, enable/disable, remove the glow effect on walls, etc.

Finally all the files will be put together, tested and fixed before appearing in the MOD you'll get for download later.

Fracman

P.S. The Imperial Repeater is finished I think, it is my still favorite weapon although the plasma charges of the JO Heay Repeater have a nice effect ;-)

HapSlash
04-17-2003, 08:30 PM
Really,... I thought magical fairies were going to sprinkle pixie dust on an old copy of Dark Forces and instantly Zap them into the Mod! :rolleyes:

What I was really asking was if you're planning on making the axe, and if so, would you make it a usable weapon?

Fracman
04-17-2003, 10:05 PM
The current model of the Gammorean has no axe, so we most probably will do one for it.
But I don't think we will make it available to Kyle in the DF MOD since he has to carry already dozens of blasters and ammo packs ;-) and the axe would only handicap him.

Fracman

Temujin
04-17-2003, 11:45 PM
Uh... That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! I think if you have a weapon script and an AXE MODEL you gotta make it into a useable weapon even if you made a cheat to access it. HOLY SHEET FRACMAN, what the hell were you thinking? I mean, handicap? I wanna cut those fuqas up! Anyway, I'd LOVE to see more screenshots like I had said, and I also wanna know if you'll fix the charge up problem considering it only appears to charge in the demo & actually increases no damage. THANKS

Edit: Please try not to double post, and if you do so, delete one of them. Also please do not be so rude, especially to members of the team. Thankyou.

Infinity Blade
04-18-2003, 12:32 AM
I think he meant handicap as in:

You have several ranged weapons... many with rapid fire, some extremely hazardous to use. If you're stuck in an area being shot at with blasters, cannons, and anything else that goes *BANG*...

Hmmmm.... Imperial Repeater.... or an Axe.

I myself would take the Repeater. Now if it was a Lightsaber.... well, that's a different story. :D

Fracman
04-18-2003, 04:21 AM
Ja, exactly. It certainly would be fun to run through the maps swinging the axe aroung *swooosh* like one could do with a chainsaw in a well known DF clone ;)
But: the axe is simply not Kyle's preferred weapon.

Fracman

The_One
04-18-2003, 07:54 AM
Yeah, it would add a completely new element to the gameplay of Dark Forces. For balancing issues, I think it would be best to keep weapons as they are.

Also, Temujin, please note the edit on your most recent post.

Temujin
04-19-2003, 01:57 AM
I seriously think the axe should be useable even if it is not going to be considered most effective. I think if you don't make it usable it would be a bad idea... Anyway, about those other 2 questions...

Fracman
04-19-2003, 05:14 AM
eh... those 2 questions?

1: Briar alternative fire recharge function?
It is not in DF, but the Briar certainly needs an alternative firing mechanism like all the other weapons have.
I think we'll leave it as is.
=> Temujin: simply don't use it, always take primary Briar fire ;)

About the damage... What do you meant by this?
I just tried the demo and the recharged alt fire knocks down a commando, so there is clearly a damage!

2. Imperial Repeater ?
In fact two points here:
a) Secondary fire is now fixed
b) shell reloading animation not done yet

Other questions?

Temujin
04-20-2003, 05:53 PM
When the demo was released I remember Darth_Linux saying specifically that they didn't want the alternate bryer fire, and they were having rouble getting rid of it. They also said that it wasn't doing anymore damage but they couldn't get rid of the animation thing. That's where I was coming from anyway. Could we see more pictures of that sweet repeater?

Katarn07
04-20-2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Temujin
When the demo was released I remember Darth_Linux saying specifically that they didn't want the alternate bryer fire, and they were having rouble getting rid of it. They also said that it wasn't doing anymore damage but they couldn't get rid of the animation thing. That's where I was coming from anyway. Could we see more pictures of that sweet repeater?

I remember hearing the same thing.

Can you guys make the standard fire of the E-11 like its alt fire? Or is it like that already?

The_One
04-20-2003, 06:32 PM
When the demo was released I remember Darth_Linux saying specifically that they didn't want the alternate bryer fire, and they were having rouble getting rid of it. They also said that it wasn't doing anymore damage but they couldn't get rid of the animation thing.

He did. I was the one working for hours trying to get rid of it. We can now (we have source code). Bear in mind Fracman wasn't around at that time, so was unaware of this. I guess it is open to debate. What do you want people?


Could we see more pictures of that sweet repeater?

No :p

Can you guys make the standard fire of the E-11 like its alt fire? Or is it like that already?

Yep, it is already like that :)

Katarn07
04-20-2003, 07:00 PM
Well, since the E-11 is rapid fire all the way, I can link my left mouse button to primary fire for DF.

I would prefer it not being there personally. I never truly found a use for it, and if you really wanna pack as much punch as the Bryar's big bolt, get in your opponents face with the Repeater on secondary fire. I beat DF using that gun alone (except when facing the DTs...)

*** I understand you don't get the repeater unless you go out of your way in level 4, but there aren't many stormies that pose to much of a threat in levels 1-4, are there? TDs take them all out in Fest, and if you waste your time charging a bolt on the Bryar on Talay, you're as good as dead. Just run with E-11 blazing until all the Imps are as charred up as the DT victims! :D :p :D

Jeff 42
04-22-2003, 02:57 AM
Yeah, except the E-11 in JO is UNBELIEVABLY INACCURATE. In DF it's pretty good for taking out enemies at medium range. In JO it seems like if you're shooting in rapid-fire mode at a target more than about ten meters away then a large majority of your shoots will miss. I relied heavily on charged-up Bryar shots to get through the non-lightsaber levels of JO. Plus, the primary fire of the Bryar in JO is so weak it's almost useless.

michael_collins
04-22-2003, 03:37 PM
I can work out a way to get the axe in one level and keep it or, if the team wishes, discard it when the level is over.

In Jabba's Space yacht, a Gammorean guard pushes Kyle into the pit to be eaten alive by the Kell Dragon, now, this is a mod and not a TC so if the team wishes to take a little liberty in having Kyle PULL the Gammorean into the pit with him, killing him in the fall and having his axe thrown across the floor behind the Kell Dragon, then he can dodge the lizard and get the axe and use it as a weapon for the duration of the level and the rest of the game....

Takers?

The_One
04-22-2003, 04:55 PM
Well, I think the current poll on the website will decide the answer to this question.

michael_collins
04-22-2003, 04:58 PM
god bless democracy

aint we lucky theres no imps running this site *hides from darth linux*

The Count
04-22-2003, 05:20 PM
Yeah hopefully democracy will generate that the Gammorrean axe isn't there. no offence Michael Collins but I don't really think that would be a good idea (However when I used to play Dark Forces way back in 96 I thought that would be a cool idea) but no not really now I can hardly see Kyle using a vibro axe for that kell dragon plus it makes it so much easier, that level really made you use your fists for once aswell. (However a cheat of it in would be cool!)

The_One
04-22-2003, 05:22 PM
I am the only one who runs the website.

Also, I changed my mind about you seeing the last of the Imperial Repeater :D

Keep an eye on this thread, people :p

The Count
04-22-2003, 05:30 PM
Super cool!

Geoffrey S
04-23-2003, 07:06 AM
I'm just trying to work this out, but why do some people want the axe as a usable weapon? Ask yourself, what would it add to the game? It just seems like a case of "if it's there, I want to use it". But why? With all the weapons from the original Dark Forces there doesn't seem to be a point in adding NPC weapons to the mix. I know this isn't meant to be a total recreation of the original game, but this sort of addition doesn't make the mod any better and doesn't fit in with the rest. I just get the impression the vibroaxe would work too much like the lightsaber, with everybody using that for the duration of the game rather than the 'normal' weapons. Just my $0,02.
And I'm looking forward to seeing more of the repeater!

EnforcerSG
04-23-2003, 09:54 AM
I sure as heck do not see the point. There is not much to get out of the ax, the only reason it would be there is cause people asked for it, not for any real content reason. I just see it as a waste of time of those making the mod.

Katarn07
04-23-2003, 11:29 AM
There is only one time it would prove useful, and that being on Jabba's ship when you have yet to aquire your gear and all you have are 5 TDs.

But wouldn't that make it to easy? Punching the crap outta Gammoreans was hard and proved more challenging than blowing one up with the TD and taking out the rest with the axe you got from the first one until you get your gear.

And you couldn't use the axe like a saber. No way to deflect bolts, so you are as good as dead if you choose to have it out. :rolleyes:

What other NPC weapons are you talking about in the poll besides the axe though? Are there really any others you don't get?

michael_collins
04-23-2003, 01:48 PM
well there is general mohcs rifle, and that mine launcher thingy

Geoffrey S
04-23-2003, 02:15 PM
Oh, that'd have a point. There's just one officer after you'd get that weapon.
Katarn07: I know it can't deflect bolts (although, you never know in Star Wars) but I was thinking more of the way you swing the weapon around. It really wouldn't add anything in any case. And other NPC weapons; I can't recall anything. Unless you want to run around slapping stormtroopers with a Dianoga tentacle?

Infinity Blade
04-23-2003, 02:31 PM
I just see it as a waste of time of those making the mod. Well, we need to make an Axe anyway for the Gamorrean. I'm not 100% knowledgeable on weapon coding, but I would think once it was done for an NPC that it wouldn't be that much more work to translate it to the player.

And you couldn't use the axe like a saber. No way to deflect bolts, so you are as good as dead if you choose to have it out. No more dead than fists, I'd believe. And there are trigger happy folks out there that have a tendency to run outta ammo. Just need to "stick and move". :D

I can see the Axe as a viable option, but it needs to be pretty powerful yet somewhat slow. If it's a little slow, the most it'll be good for is taking out one or two enemies. Any more than that and you'll be in the middle of major crossfire, and the sheer numbers can cause some serious damage.

And with the way many encounters work (as far as I remember anyway), you have to fight enemies that are at a good distance or height, or in moderate numbers. That right there limits it's usefulness to certain situations, but I think it could come in handy often enough to justify it's use. Going up against one opponent would work extremely well. Dodge, Smack, Dead. Wouldn't need to be as accurate as fists, and should be much more deadly.

In my opinion, the axe could be a good addition as a sort of "upgrade" to fists, and can see why some want to have it. If balanced right, it could be a fairly formidable weapon. I do admit that is not necessary, but between novelty and use, I can see there being a place for it.

Katarn07
04-23-2003, 03:00 PM
What mine launcher?

The_One
04-23-2003, 03:56 PM
I didn't come up with the poll question, Fracman did. So you can ask him what he was on about :p

Fracman
04-23-2003, 05:33 PM
Yeah, good point, I can't remember many other weapons, too.
Perhaps the axe is the only weapon that was not used in DF because LEC perhaps simply ran out of control keys for the weapon selection :D

michael_collins
04-23-2003, 10:20 PM
play general mohc again katarn

Katarn07
04-23-2003, 11:10 PM
I did just a few weeks ago over Spring Break.

I thought you meant another part of the game. I see no point in adding those. After killing Mohc, there is a single officer left...

(any one else find that is the last enemy slightly amusing!? I do :p)

EnforcerSG
04-24-2003, 10:40 AM
According to the hint book, the reason that officer was there was only for a sense of scale.

chris the cynic
04-24-2003, 11:18 AM
Unless you want to rip the weapons out of an interrogation droid or a turret the only weapons in the game that are not used are

the ax (I don't think that the Gamorreans ever had the vibro switched on, they hack people up with it off as a show of strength)

The officer pistol

The boss dark trooper weapon

The prototype dark trooper weapon (never used by anything but still in the game)

and thatís it. (I think)

The only other weapon I can think of even mentioned related to the game is the Bryar rifle. (Which is what the pistol was before Kyle modified it.)

So the only extra weapons that could be fit into the regular course of the game are the ax and officer pistol.

Fracman
04-24-2003, 03:00 PM
Chris, thanx a lot for pointing that out.
Since nearly every weapon Kyle can already use in DF is a firing weapon (the officer's blaster is probably only a light-weight version of the imperial blaster and therefore not much better that Kyle's Briar pistol) I think that reduces the count of NPC weapons to exactly 1: the Gammorean Axe.
The use of this special weapon is very restricted, so Kyle certainly will drop it after a short time if he ever gets the chance to have it.
Nevertheless, a skilled Jedi Master may be able to cut blaster fire in two discharges in a MP game ;)

recombinant
04-24-2003, 04:11 PM
erm... regarding the gamorrean, don't we have an issue with not having axe-swinging animations in _humanoid.gla?

I guess you'd have to make the gamorrean use lightsaber swings, which should be doable, I guess.

Corto's the expert on that stuff....

Gamorrean DFA with the axe!!!

:D

michael_collins
04-24-2003, 05:26 PM
I only really thought of that because if it was added to the game it could be used as either A) a cheat or B) as an easter egg if one completed the game on hard.

And I know i should have said that but sue me (waits for lawyers)

recombinant
04-26-2003, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Jeff 42
No, don't get rid of the charge-up on the Bryar.

Too late.

;)

But seriously, folks... I got rid of the charge-up yesterday since that behavior is not really consistent with the original game.

Jeff 42
04-26-2003, 04:42 AM
An unbelievably inaccurate E-11 is also not consistent with the original game. Are you going to fix that?

The_One
04-26-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Jeff 42
An unbelievably inaccurate E-11 is also not consistent with the original game. Are you going to fix that?

Yeah, we are. We couldn't fix any aim issues for the demo as we had no source code. We do now, so that will be done at some point :)

Jeff 42
04-26-2003, 01:38 PM
Cool. :)

Geoffrey S
04-26-2003, 04:12 PM
I'd keep the charged up blaster shot; it's extremely useful when you're facing single enemies, and would also be the only long range weapon in the game. It might be different from the original game, but it'd certainly be a useful addition to DF had the designers used it.

Temujin
04-27-2003, 12:41 AM
God damn, I started a HUGE thread... Oh well, I can see my own opinions being expressed by different people. I think the axe should be useable for the simple question (why not?):sbdance

Salv
04-27-2003, 01:38 AM
I think the axe should be useable for the simple question (why not?)
Kyle running around hacking people with an axe? Somehow Im not so sure about that..

recombinant
04-27-2003, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Jeff 42
An unbelievably inaccurate E-11 is also not consistent with the original game. Are you going to fix that?

Just to reiterate what The_One said... Yes it's on my hitlist of things that need to be fixed. Since Blaster-related functionality is next up, I will probably address this problem this week, if all goes well.


...and StrongBad Rules!!!

:sbdance


:D

recombinant
04-27-2003, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by Temujin
God damn, I started a HUGE thread... Oh well, I can see my own opinions being expressed by different people. I think the axe should be useable for the simple question (why not?):sbdance

a) The animation does not exist for the model (actually this is a problem with using the Gamorrean in the MP engine in the first place - we may have to just fake it)
b) It's not consistent with the original game (which is what we're trying to accomplish, within the irritating limits of the JK2 MP game).
c) It could potentially render the lightsaber cheat (admittedly, not consistent with the original game) useless.

In a nutshell, it's probably not gonna happen.

Hope this helps.

:D

The_One
04-27-2003, 08:28 AM
Just so you know, I'm against the axe aswell.

Some guy posted earlier in this thread, he liked that fact we are a democracy here at the DF MOD. Well, sorry bud, we are not ;) Even though the majority of people in the poll answered "Yes", I doubt this is going to happen. I really think it could mess up DF if we added this. And as Evan said, there are coding problems attached to using the axe.

Now, let me point out this doesn't mean we don't take any of the polls seriously, because, believe me we do. For example, the recent Corsucant one will be taken into consideration when the level is produced. But at the end of the day it is our mod, if we really don't want to do something we won't. Just because a couple of hundred people voted for it on the poll isn't going to make it happen. If the final mod is downloaded as much as the demo, then that gives us a potential 40-50 thousand players. 200 out of 50,000 is bugger all - and for such a controversial subject, I really doubt it will happen. On a poll such as the Coruscant one, there was never any big fuss struck up about it, so we will go for the Coruscant look you suggested.

Hope that clears a few things up ;)

Mullaney
04-27-2003, 03:16 PM
It makes sense not to have it in the game. The time used working on that could be used better on something from the original game.

and the fists are way cooler anyway. . .

Fracman
04-28-2003, 02:05 PM
Heh... we just wanted to hear that from you, thanks!!! :D