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El Sitherino
03-08-2003, 10:21 PM
should these books be sold?


A few weeks ago after talking with my world history teacher, who is also a criminology teacher. I went to Barnes & Nobles and found the journals of the Marquis De Sade(a very well known and unfortunately famous serial killer and rapist from the age of the French Revolution.) now I'll give you the description of these books and let you make your choice on your answer for my question.

ok ive been discussing this topic at school alot lately.
The Journals of the Marquis De Sade tell horrible facts and details on how to derive sexual pleasure from harming others and harming oneself.
from The Journals of the Marquis De Sade
"What does one want when one is engaged in the sexual act? That everything around you give you its utter attention, think only of you, care only for you...every man wants to be a tyrant when he fornicates."
it tells details on bondage style rape on women, men, and even children. they have pictures and tell you what you can do to derive sexual pleasure from cutting people open. the books also tell how you can get sexual reactions from a corpse such as a post mortum ejaculation. it details painful acts of killing people slowly and how to get sexual pleasure from it.
serial killers, rapists and pedophiles are known to read and perfectly memorize every single word in these books and use these books to perfect their method.

now that you know what these books are do you think they should be sold in public stores? if at all.

you can find out more info here (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7362/)

Jared
03-08-2003, 11:30 PM
uhh...thats disturbing....
honestly, what is this world coming to?

Rogue15
03-08-2003, 11:39 PM
i don't even want to know how you know this crap.....

El Sitherino
03-08-2003, 11:44 PM
im taking a criminology class. and we have to learn about this stuff. its really sick. but in order to do anything in criminal justice you gotta take this class.

Rogue15
03-08-2003, 11:46 PM
ah, ok. all's well then. :D [in other words you're not some sick psycho ;) ]

ShockV1.89
03-09-2003, 12:28 AM
I think it's pretty gross. But there are worse things out there. Given that the internet can be used to find most of the most disguting things in the world, I dont think it should be pulled. People should express their opinions that it shouldnt be there, but I dont think there shoudl be any government action restricting their being published. Rapists, child molestors, and serial killers are going to rape, molest, and kill, regardless of how "refined" they are about it and how many techniques they use to get their jollies off.

Whenever I see people campaigning to get books removed, I always think of the Nazis and the book-burnings...

Kain
03-09-2003, 12:36 AM
the same question can be asked about the journal of Hitler. Theres nothing wrong with reading it. Its for learning. History repeats itself, unless we are learned of the past. Thus, such books are publicated

C'jais
03-09-2003, 09:11 AM
Yes, they should. You cannot limit the freedom of speech and hope to remain with a free, democratic society in the end.

Ask yourself: How did you know that man did those things? By reading his books. If those books had been outlawed, not many persons would have been aware of his sadomasochistic pleasures. For better or worse. You must never restrict information like this.

And at the very least Sade was passionate. The true monsters are the likes of P. Bateman who are so indifferent and cold in their murders that they're obliterating any hierachy of human values. Now that's disgusting.

Breton
03-09-2003, 10:29 AM
The problem is, people may (some will, probably) take after his book and do what is described in it. Can we risk such a thing to happen? IMO, no. Allowing books that describes bondage rape, slow killing etc. will affect certain people into beliving that's it's not really such a bad thing to do after all.

Kain
03-09-2003, 11:27 AM
Theres always gonna be someone, somewhere, whos got something to say about anything*this includes nice things like Barney and not so nice things like music*. The problem with them is there so self-righteous and think everyones out to get them that it nulls the effect of any kind of reasonable thing. Marilyn Manson, Eminem, and countless others come under fire because someone was listening to their CD at the wrong time, thus Columbine was placed on Manson's shoulders. Huckleberry Finn is STILL outlawed in a few states*cant say for sure which ones*. My point is, if it offends anyone, then they'll always think its wrong. They wont see it for what it is. The Journals of De Sade*as I said before* are mearly teaching us the past, so it dosent get repeated.

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 01:42 PM
i agree they shouldnt be banned from being sold but my main thing is that basically they are right up front for everyone to see. mainly small children. on the cover of 2 of the books is mutilated bodies of children and a man standing over them doing explicit acts. i believe that free speech is good and that they can continue to publish these books but at least put them in a section for adults only. i guess until you see it you dont really care but once you see it you'll realize why i think it should be put into an adult only section.

Kain
03-09-2003, 03:21 PM
The cover should be changed, especially if its upfront of the store. But if its a new release and just on display, then its mommy and daddy's responsibility to keep lil' kiddy away from it, not the shopkeeps

Reborn Outcast
03-09-2003, 04:01 PM
As the old saying goes, "Those who choose to ignore history, usually repeat it." I have never heard of these books so I can't comment but they should be available to special classes such as crime courses or stuff like that.

In fact, they are selling paintings that a serial killer made in the 70's when he was on his killing spree. The paintings depict his "alternate ego" as a sadistic clown.

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast

In fact, they are selling paintings that a serial killer made in the 70's when he was on his killing spree. The paintings depict his "alternate ego" as a sadistic clown. those paintings are the ones done by john wayne gacey. but those painting are not basically explicit its just creepy.

Reborn Outcast
03-09-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
those paintings are the ones done by john wayne gacey. but those painting are not basically explicit its just creepy.

Well yes but it could be offensive to family members of whom he killed.

Is this man who wrote the books depicted in Madam Tusseaus (sp?) art museum in London? I went there and they had wax figures of famous mass killers.

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 05:02 PM
yes he is. also i just think they shouldnt put them out in the front.i mean dont get me wrong i'm about as liberal as they come but if you see the covers its just more disgusting than inappropriate. the Marquis De Sade IS the most horrific, bloody killer there is, was, and will ever be. hes a god or christ to serial killers. there is a doctor in my criminology class and she has done many surgeries and even worked in the morque but while reading the books and seeing the pictures in them she got very sick and even had to leave to throw up. and this lady has seen the nastiest murder victims of our time and these books made her throw up!... that tells ya something about them.

go here and look up some stuff on serial killlers (http://www.crimelibrary.com) im telling you none of these guys had anything on De Sade.

Reborn Outcast
03-09-2003, 05:03 PM
Yes I agree. These books should only be seen UPON REQUEST. Otherwise people who are to young or dont want to see them, will.

ET Warrior
03-09-2003, 06:02 PM
I donot believe they should be kept out of publication, because that violates our freedom of speach, expression, etc. But I do think that they should be kept out of obvious view, either in an adult section or behind the counter, available on request.

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 06:08 PM
http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/sade/7d.jpg this is a picture from one of the journals. it is a image depicting the beating of the stomach to derive sexual pleasure (for the one beating the other)
from one of the Marquis personal journals
With Pelagie’s(the marquis wife) consent and assistance, Sade had six teenage girls hired to work at La Coste, ostensibly as domestic servants( meaning as prostitutes). from the marquis personal journals
his wife, two other young adult women domestics, and his valet, Sade assembled his captives daily for a mélange of activities: masturbation, fellatio(oral sex), sodomy{anal sex} (both hetero and homosexual), sodomy chains, and, of course, scourging(deriving sexual pleasure from acts of violence) from Philosophy in the Boudoir
“How delicious to corrupt, to stifle all semblances of virtue and religion in that young heart!” these are examples of what is written in these books. to see more on the Marquis go here (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/sade/)

Reborn Outcast
03-09-2003, 06:25 PM
Thats disgusting and disturbing. Very.

ckcsaber
03-09-2003, 07:26 PM
They books should stay where they are. I admit it's horrible, but there is a lot of crap worse than that out there, and it would not be fair to the publisher if the book was hidden in some corner of the store where it won't sell at all.

El Sitherino
03-09-2003, 07:36 PM
actually it doesnt sell very well at all except when criminology classes go to buy it to pass around class. and when some sickos go and buy it to actually use the techniques.
oh give me examples of worse things cuz i doubt until you read it and see it you can make that statement.

ckcsaber
03-10-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith

oh give me examples of worse things cuz i doubt until you read it and see it you can make that statement.

Mien Kampf

El Sitherino
03-10-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
Mien Kampf ah havent read that in a while. might need to go back over it.

ImmolatedYoda
03-10-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by ckcsaber
Mien Kampf

well, actually, its Mein Kampf (my struggle) but i know thats not the point. from what ive heard, Mein Kampf isnt actually that bad, its just some of Hitlers philosophy, but then again, i havent read it yet, so dont quote me.

i believe that yes, freedom of speech applies to these works too. on the note of Mein Kampf and things like the Communist Manifesto, this isnt World War I or II or the Cold War, so there is no need for censorship of these works (not like there would be, these days), theyre for educational purposes. and im sure just as many, if not more people that read the Marquis works would be grossly turned off by it than actually take ideas from it. the times have changed, and i think only the sickest minds would actually try to emulate the Marquis.

ckcsaber
03-10-2003, 08:12 PM
by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

That just makes me shiver. It may not be as graphic as Marqui, but I consider it worse. Genocide.




btw, thanks Yoda it is Mein Kampf.

munik
03-11-2003, 03:12 AM
Do you guys know that the books Sade wrote are 200 years old?
They are an interesting read, although a strange one he was, he did write very passionately. Seriously, does anyone here believe that the illustrations on the cover of the book that InsaneSith is refering to are the original illustrations? If even the first editions had illustrations on the cover. Have you even seen any of the illustrations inside the book? Or any deviant art from 200 years ago? Does it really repulse and revolt you?

The Marquis de Sade was an interesting man who lived during an interesting period of history. His writings give us insight into his life, and to the times. And you would want to take this away? To hide this in the back of a bookstore, for the childrens sake? If a child is in a bookstore, it is for the books. In this mecca of knowledge, you would attempt to withold knowledge. I reckon you could put the book behind closed doors, and you could stand guard in you jack boots while bearing your iron cross.


It's been quite some time since I've read anything from Sade, and I don't remember too much of it. But I do know that nothing he wrote is really innovative, or so arcane as to be the only source for it. If someone wants to sexually torture another, I seriously doubt that they would be lost unless they had the complete works of Sade to guide them.

griff38
03-11-2003, 07:39 PM
I don't see why this information should be censored.

There seems to be a % of humans who believe "others" will be corrupted by information.

If you are not into Sades lifestyle, his writing will not inspire you to try. I promise.