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View Full Version : Revolution soft and their policy on fangames


GregD
03-13-2003, 08:07 AM
Just read an old interview from the developer of Broken Sword 3 (Revolution) on AG.com and im amazed that he said that he doesn't mind people making fan games of BS.. even fan made sequels!

We the fans are so unlucky that LEC doesn't have such a carefree attitude to what could be one of the largest adventure fangame communities. People would be working on prequels to mi and god knows what else.

I'm still so disgusted by LEC's attitude towards us, we fill their pockets with money and they expect us to sit back and wait for a sequel or another game so we can fill their pockets some more.

I realise they don't want people doing a fan made MI5 etc. but come on LEC get with the times like revolution software.

elTee
03-14-2003, 04:49 PM
There are two ways of looking at it. Sure, it would be cool if there was a load of downloadable Monkey Island games, but there are hidden dangers within this pot of gold. I mean, I for one would get very annoyed if I kept downloading games which weren't very good, weren't funny, and involved "naked elaine" gags. If I owned the Monkey Island rights, I'd probably do the same as LucasArts do. I wouldn't want the web littered with bad rip-offs of my game. I appreciate that there would be the odd very good game, but the vast majority would NOT be good.

The fangame community over at Adventure Developers more than satiates my appetite for fan-made games. The developer of Broken Sword says that, but the difference is that LucasArts are speaking from experience. I'm willing to bet that if someone made a badly made "Broken Sword 0: The Pharoes Balls" with bad jokes and was just an overall bad game, the same developer would think twice about letting "fans" loose with his material again.

Remember, LucasArts didn't start stopping fangames before anyone had decided to do it.

Guano
03-15-2003, 11:29 AM
here's an idea: If I was a developer of a hit adventure game series then I'd just let ppl upload their fan games on my site and have a monthly contest with prizes.

GregD
03-15-2003, 03:32 PM
Theres always a risk obviously but it would help to improve an otherwise stale community compared to say that of a major series which can be modified and can have addons.

scabb
03-15-2003, 05:56 PM
I haven't seen Mr Lucas firing legal bullets at all the Star Wars spoofs that litter the internet - From the harmless ones to the ones where Yoda lights up a spliff and engages in some interspecies interaction, and Luke & Leia narrow that gene pool ETC. What's so different about adventure game characters? Maybe if we make a cartoon where they all advocate homicide and perpetuate stereotypes LEC legal will back down?

Guano
03-15-2003, 06:26 PM
what's ETC? Empire Takes Crack?

Gabez
03-15-2003, 06:40 PM
Yeah, it’s a shame LEC come down so hard on fan projects. But they still haven’t stopped quite a few being made, and there’s nothing to stop you from making one to share with a few friends. It’s not like they’re completely anti-fan, they just don’t "encourage" fan-games. Generally I’d say the LEC were pretty good to their fan community, with all their cool stuff they do and such.

GregD
03-18-2003, 08:04 AM
Gabez, can you give me like 10 examples of what LEC do in the community besides making games and running competitions?

Because to be honest it's sod all.

jannar85
03-19-2003, 07:25 AM
I wouldn't allow people making fan games of our soon-to-be-released Roger Foodbelly. Why? Well, would you like it if you made a superb game, and someone mysteriously made a fangame which ruined the whole original game?

Someone plays fangames first, and if it's bad, they most likely won't play the original game.

Plus, I don't like fangames. Why?
Well.... People making fangames can make something original instead. Of course, I'm being just foolish, and you will flame me.

But it's just my opinion.
Start something original instead.

I've learnt that from my own experience when I was younger. :p
I do look farward to 'some' fangames though, I must confess...

Btw... It's my birthday today :D

Alien426
03-19-2003, 08:01 AM
Happy birthday to you then!

I've got to agree. Seeing fan games that "borrow" Monkey Island's graphics isn't nice in my opinion. If you can't draw a background yourself, why make a fan game? If you can't develop characters yourself, why make an adventure game? The exception here would be games where you can take a whole new view, like the one that lets you control Herman Toothrot.

scabb
03-19-2003, 10:12 AM
I fully agree that it's a lot better to make an original title than a fan game (or a sequel, in some cases), but LEC still shouldn't shut down fan games. They allow music to be remixed, pictures drawn, fan novels written - Isn't a game really just a combination of all 3?

It's a creators choice to choose if he wants to use some LEC characters or come up with someone original in his game, but as long as it's clear that this "is" a fan-game, then there should really be no problem. If people don't realise they're playing a fan-game, then they're probably too ignorant to play through the real games anyway. Besides, the whole point of "fan-games" is that they are played after the originals; because only fans will actually want to play them.

Most aren't fully devoid of originality anyway - "Fate of Monkey Island" had little to do with the Monkey Island characters, I believe the same islands were used though, and there were a few cameos. But that's it, really. The one with Herman, "Night of the Hermit", looks absolutely fantastic, but that suffers from stilted dialogue and ridiculous puzzles.

At the end of the day, a decent amateur adventure game developer can make a fan-game great. After all, "CMI" isn't from the original team, it's from a bunch of people who loved the originals.

GregD
03-19-2003, 10:39 AM
I agree Scabb, and I think it's the one thing the community is lacking at the moment.

And jannar concerning your "soon-to-be-released Roger Foodbelly" would anyone want to make a fan game of it anyway ;D be honest now...

How on earth did you come up with such a zany title anyway... :rolleyes:

elTee
03-19-2003, 02:28 PM
Foodbelly looks cool, and Atle tells me that it is going to be sold properly, not a free fangame.

My "fangame" (http://www.geocities.com/lucastones/mie.zip) the MIE used Monkey Island art. I thought it was ok, so far.

jannar85
03-19-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Alien426
Happy birthday to you then!

I've got to agree. Seeing fan games that "borrow" Monkey Island's graphics isn't nice in my opinion. If you can't draw a background yourself, why make a fan game? If you can't develop characters yourself, why make an adventure game? The exception here would be games where you can take a whole new view, like the one that lets you control Herman Toothrot.
I 100% agree with you. Thanks for the congratulation :)
GregD on the other hand....

Originally posted by GregD
And jannar concerning your "soon-to-be-released Roger Foodbelly" would anyone want to make a fan game of it anyway ;D be honest now...

How on earth did you come up with such a zany title anyway... :rolleyes:
They probably would! If you got your ass into JustAdventure, you can see some of it already. :p

It's in the upcoming releases section... :)

The homepage is 'still' being worked on.... Damn...
Oh, and it will be commercial :D

That zany title was created a while back, when the creator wrote novels about him. So we translated his surname, and got Foodbelly! ;)

The name Roger Foodbelly is just as zany as Monkey Island. :p
Just reminding you about it... :)

Tell me what you think, if you ever check the art... :)
That page, will only be our temporary source, till we've got our homepage design ready.

Cheers :)

SamNMax
03-19-2003, 05:23 PM
I agree with Lucasart's policy. If I were head of Lucasarts, I'm not going to let people butcher my perfect games with their piss poor sequals.

GendoTheGreat
03-20-2003, 03:51 AM
Damn straight. Well said.

GregD
03-20-2003, 04:41 AM
Like I said sequels i can understand them being annoyed over... but not prequels and fangames which could extend the gameplay of existing games.

scabb
03-20-2003, 11:02 AM
Have you guys seen Broken Sword 2.5 (http://bf25.daddeltreff.de/eng/)? Zak 2 (http://www.zak2project.de/eng/headlines.php)? Zak 2 (http://www.zak2.org/index2_e.php?site=news_e) again?

All are good examples of promising fan-made sequels. They're not going to butcher LucasArts "perfect games" if you don't play them - which you don't have to - and even if you do happen to accidentally download extract install and run them, is that really gonna make you think "This is crap. This has ruined the whole of the "$seriesname" series for me :("

If so, then I'm afraid that you're stupid. Fate of Monkey Island was far from perfect, but it didn't ruin my perception of Monkey Island. I never once thought about that game when I played through the originals again, nor any other of the countless fan-games I have played. Fan games are a lark, not the gospel truth. Besides, Monkey Island is hardly a serious tale, and it's already been "butchered" by LEC if you want to take that tone.

And "Perfect Games?" The Dig? Escape from Monkey Island? Perfect? Maybe they're perfect at being "The Dig" and "Escape from Monkey Island" respectively, but these are two examples of Lucas Arts screwing up, at least in my opinion. I'll let "The Dig" off though, because it has its fans, but still.. I'll pick flaws in anything if you want me to.

ThunderPeel2001
03-20-2003, 04:01 PM
A tad confused.

I was under the impression that LEC fangames WERE ok. So long as the people involved did not make any money out of it.

Am I wrong?

What about all these?

Fate of Monkey Island (http://www.fangames.co.uk/V5/games/fomi.php)

Monkey : Island 2 (http://www.fangames.co.uk/V5/games/mi2.php)

Night of the Hermit (http://www.fangames.co.uk/V5/games/noth.php) (A Herman Toothrot adventure!)

The Devil's Triangle (http://www.fangames.co.uk/V5/games/tdt.php) (Set between MI1 and MI2)

Indiana Jones: The Lost World (http://www.fangames.co.uk/V5/games/tlw.php)

Plus the upcoming ones:

Fate of Atlantis II (http://www.amberfisharts.com/)

Plus the two (amazing looking) Zak sequels that scabb pointed out.

As long as no-one is making money why is LEC making a fuss? :(

~ Johnny

scabb
03-20-2003, 04:25 PM
Well, Scurvyliver (http://scurvyliver.com), the creater of "Fate of Monkey Island" received a cease and desist from the Lucas Legal team, as did Matt Shaw, who was creating a game called "Legends of Lechuck". There was outrage etc, Lucas-bashing, which was fully deserved

I forgot to mention FOA2, which is also looking great. Most of the Monkey Island fan-games made so far haven't been on a par with the Zak or Broken Sword projects though.

Bleh, Victimless crime.

GregD
03-21-2003, 08:13 AM
Again Scabb proves my point look at BS2.5 and FOA2... quality work. Obviously you will get some bad apples but isn't that true of the original game community as well?

Gabez
03-28-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by GregD
Gabez, can you give me like 10 examples of what LEC do in the community besides making games and running competitions?

Because to be honest it's sod all.

Er, well, maybe not ten, but… They seem pretty good with Mojo letting them come over and interview cool people and stuff, and they’ve got this new person who’s supposed to be answering questions or something. They could be better with some things, but overall I don’t think they’re too bad. All my posts contradict each other, yes.

GregD
03-29-2003, 03:44 PM
Interviews thats cool of them yeah... but they should allow people to mod stuff like the latest indy game, or at least use the engine.

elTee
03-29-2003, 03:49 PM
Yeah, the new PR lady at the LEC is very pro-fan community. I contacted her regarding LEC staff member interviews and she was very helpful.

jannar85
04-10-2003, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by LucasTones
Foodbelly looks cool, and Atle tells me that it is going to be sold properly, not a free fangame.

Thanks. I missed that. I only want to answer Greg's question, but it seemed like he ignored my previous reply.

ThunderPeel2001
04-10-2003, 08:07 PM
I only want to answer Greg's question, but it seemed like he ignored my previous reply.

If Roger Foodbelly is so great, how come you don't even have a website about it? In defense of Greg, it's pretty hard to take someone seriously when there isn't even a website about their game!

So anyway, I hunted down Roger Foodbelly and I can honestly say... it's the BEST looking fangame I have EVER seen (from the three samples, anyway! :)). Who did ther graphics?? WOW!!!

Everyone else can see for themselves here:

http://www.justadventure.com/Upcoming_Releases/RogerFoodbelly/RogerFoodbelly.shtm

~ Johnny

scabb
04-11-2003, 09:56 AM
Yeah, Foodbelly looks great - let's hope it plays great too; can't wait for a demo of sorts. Brilliant example of how fan-games are improving, I'm definitely looking forward to it.

However, in terms of sheer beauty, it's second to Project Joe (http://php.hku.nl/~jeroen16/synthetix/project_joe/).

However, looks are definitely not everything, as Pleughburg (http://gaspop.com) (aka the best fangame evar) has proven.

ThunderPeel2001
04-14-2003, 10:45 PM
Thanks, Scabb! I've been looking for a decent fangame for ages!!

~ Johnny

Alien426
04-16-2003, 09:45 AM
There's a brand-new Trailer (http://www.4players.de/rendersite.php?LAYOUT=download_info&DOWNLOADID=4749) for Broken Sword 3 (Germany: "Baphomets Fluch 3") available for download (also check out this page (http://www.thq.de/html/downloads/dl-b1.html#100) from publisher THQ). I wasn't able to watch it on a PC with sound board. So I was restricted to the visuals:

What bothered me slightly was that George was seen moving a crate in one scene. I hope this isn't a sign for an action-adventure approach á la Tomb Raider.

C Shutt
04-16-2003, 09:47 AM
Bah. Crates are what makes gaming great.

ThunderPeel2001
04-16-2003, 03:15 PM
Wow! It actually looks pretty good! Even George and Nico look pretty decent in 3D and I'm SO glad that Revolution didn't succumb to temptation and call it "Broken Sword 3D"! :)

Cool! I can't wait for this!

~ John

elTee
04-17-2003, 05:51 PM
Best part is last time I heard it was pretty much confirmed for Gamecube - there was an interview in my cube magazine a few months back.

scabb
04-18-2003, 06:49 AM
It was originally intended for Gamecube, but Revolution decided to discriminate against Nintendo like a bunch of game-making-Nazis would. If you look here (http://revolution.co.uk/_display.php?id=12), the official Broken Sword 3 site can be found, and there is no sign of the Gamecube anyway. Revolution are still the good-guys though, look, they even released Lure of the Temptress (http://revolution.co.uk/_display.php?id=10) for free. Another policy I like.

Saying that, even if Broken Sword 3 was released on Gamecube, that version wouldn't have run as well as the PC version.

George is really pushing that crate like Lara, and there's a big line down the middle too, almost to tell him how far he can push it... But it's not as if Georgie hasn't moved his fair share of crates already.

elTee
04-18-2003, 04:00 PM
They never officially announced it, but the interview hinted that it was gonna come to the cube. I hope it does, but a lot of games companies are avoiding it at the moment. After Zelda it'll be back on track, so thats good.

Lure of the Temptress is really good, I didn't know you could get it free! I have it anyway, so it didn't make a difference.

And yes, George has moved crates before. I hope you don't need that bloody hydraulic lift though, that was a pain.

ThunderPeel2001
04-18-2003, 07:12 PM
Why don't you ask on their website? They're usually pretty active and answer people's questions and will openly discuss things with you (unlike another adventure game company I could mention --cough cough--). Just look at their "In Cold Blood" page: "ICB got mixed reviews" -- that's THEIR website being so honest! They're even giving the Beneath A Steel Sky SOURCE CODE out to fan developers to see if they can do anything with it (they actually gave it to the ScummVM team without them even asking!) Cool or what?? Man, I really love those guys!

Rare are still the good-guys though, look, they even released Lure of the Temptress for free

You mean Revolution, not Rare, I presume? Are Rare still doing stuff for Nintendo?

~ Johnny

MrManager
04-18-2003, 07:39 PM
It's been confirmed that BS3 will not be available on the GC. The decision was made by the publisher rather than the developer. There's an interview or webchat or something about it over at BrokenSword.net.

scabb
04-19-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by ThunderPeel2001
You mean Revolution, not Rare, I presume? Are Rare still doing stuff for Nintendo?

Erm, yes, Revolution, of course. And no, Rare don't associate with filthy Nintendo types anymore, they live the glamorous Microsoft lifestyle, with jewel encrusted kittens as pets, and constant partying round the clock with Tim Schafer and pals.

Ender
04-22-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by scabb
Revolution are still the good-guys though

Revolution are a bunch of really cool people. They've even given ScummVM the source code to Beneath a Steel Sky so we can add support for it.

On the other hand, LucasArt's are going to be first against the wall when the Revolution comes. Apologies to the late Douglas Adams. :)

ThunderPeel2001
04-22-2003, 06:47 PM
Hey, Ender, I've been trying to email you for ages but for some reason I can't get through :/ The reason is an old post I found on VOGONS, not sure if you've read it, or even if it will of any help to you, but! here it is anyway! :)

It's all about Beneath A Steel Sky and why it won't work under XP (and other recent OS's):

"I have recently examined BASS, looking for the reasons why it doesn't work at all under XP. The problem is Flashtek/DosX/X-32 Dos Extender and ****ty implementation of DPMI host in XP. Flashtek uses nasty hack to allow client program to access low 1MB of memory and it's simply not compatible with XP DPMI. it works this way: the client program code is not relocatable and it starts at address 0 (the same for data section), so the base address of code and data descriptors isn't 0 (like in 99% of other dos extenders) but points to the actual beginning of the code. If the descriptor base is let's say 2000000h, you cannot access dos memory which is located at base address 0. So the client program uses negative offset to reach that memory. Let's say we want to access video buffer so we need to write to address 0A0000h-2000000h = FE0A0000h. Unfortunately this requires the descriptor limit to be 4GB and XP's DPMI host won't allow it. Only descriptors with base address equal to 0 are allowed to have limit of 4GB, all the others are automatically limited, so any attempt to read/write to such negative address results in page fault. XP DPMI host isn't also 1.0 compatible so there's no way to map lower 1MB somewhere in the address space of the client program. And that's it.

Having the game's source code, it should be pretty easy to make the game compatible with Windows XP (at least as compatible as in Win9x, I'm not sure about the possible crashes/problems later in the game). You'd just need to use another dos extender and replace all the flashtek-specific code with normal, dpmi-compatible system calls. As an exercise I wrote a simple wrapper for the flashtek syscalls using standard PMODE/W dos extender which I normally use for my own code. It took me 2 hours so it's really easy. I haven't emulated everything (I was too lazy to emulate realmode->protected mode callbacks) but the game started, showed me the whole intro and allowed to enter the 1st room. There was no sound or mouse support (due to lack of RM->PM callbacks) so I was able to press F5 to get into the options but nothing else as I couldn't use the mouse to quit the game Unfortunately it's still incompatible with XP due to the memory addressing problem (I couldn't relocate the code). It is surely possible to change the whole game code to use different way to access low 1MB without having the sources (using special selector provided by the extender) but it's plenty of work

-Mok"

Like I said not sure if this is remotely any help to you or not! But it sure sounds useful to somebody!

Thanks,

~ John

Ender
04-23-2003, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by ThunderPeel2001
Hey, Ender, I've been trying to email you for ages but for some reason I can't get through :/ The reason is an old post I found on VOGONS, not sure if you've read it, or even if it will of any help to you, but! here it is anyway! :)

(*Snip* - ed.)

Like I said not sure if this is remotely any help to you or not! But it sure sounds useful to somebody!


Yeah, I read that post - and thanks, but it's useless :)
In theory it might make the game work, but in reality the thing is a lot more broken.

The original BASS code is assembly, so memory stuff is littered throughout the thing. And doing this would only make it DMPI-compatible anyway, it wouldn't make it run on Linux, Mac, or likely even Windows XP (due to many other things in the code).. and that's pretty useless to us.

ThunderPeel2001
04-23-2003, 11:51 PM
Yes, I see. What a pain :(

~ John