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Mandalorian54
03-16-2003, 03:00 AM
I deleted the thread "Authority of the Bible"

Now I only want to talk about FREE WILL.

I promise not to intentionally flame in this thread.

I hope Big Teddy Paul and Reborn Outcast can forgive me for the little incident in the "Authority of the Bible" thread.

I hope there will be no criticism in this thread or hurtful comments.


And Big Teddy Paul you had posted four questions in the other thread, I will answer them here.


1. In what general area do you live (America, time zone?)
2. Where have you learned your thoughts on Christianity?
3. If you are a religion which denomination do you follow?
4. Do you have a computer program that has spell check?



1. I live in Ontario, Canada.
2. I have learned my thoughts on Christianity from my churches (I have been to many), Pastors, Teachers, Parents, Theological Books, and The Bible.
3.I am a Baptist. Not a southern Baptist. Just a regular Baptist.
4.I do, but I do not use it, nor will I(other than this post). Spelling is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.



So I await the first reply and pray it is not argumentative or insulting. And once again I apologize for my own insults in previous threads.

I ask one thing of you. The Benefit of the Doubt. Please question my foundations and allow me a chance in my defence before criticizing them or me.
---------------------------------------

I used spell check on this post, but I won't again.

It's too much work, I just hope you'll bare with me.

I am partly dislexic so I have exeptionally bad spelling.

but better than the average american.

ShockV1.89
03-16-2003, 03:57 AM
Why on earth did you delete it? You could have just not posted in it anymore... :disaprove

but better than the average american.

*leaves thread in disgust*

BigTeddyPaul
03-16-2003, 05:13 AM
Words to learn how to spell:

1. Defense

Screw you dude. I mean that nicely. I spent hours writing all that stuff. You just got pissed off that you were "losing" or whatever and didn't want to reply anymore. You kept getting caught contradicting yourself, being more or less wrong, and not being able to answer questions correctly according to biblical beliefs. You are on my **** list and I am not taking you off.

Did you save Pierre's quetions? I don't think so and do you know why? I do. You know jack crap about the Bible besides what has been force feed to you.

You didn't have to delete the thread. You could have just said, "Hey please can we stick on topic," or "I will be deleting this thread in a day so take whatever you want off of it," instead of pulling the rug out from under us.

Dude we allowed you a chance to defend yourself and instead of doing that you deleted the thread so we don't remember what we were accused of or what your answer were. Remeber when Pierre asked those questions and you didn't reply? We gave you days to reply and we ALL posted many times "Still waiting for a response." Nothing. What a load of crock.

You are a chicken. Plain and simple. You need grow up a little and learn to accept criticism better. If you don't want people to disagree with you or question something that you intensely believe in then DON'T POST RELIGIOUS THREADS!

I probably won't write in this thread or others you make based purely on what you did here today. I don't know about others but I was interested in this thread. When I cool off a little and think about it you might or might not hear from me. Probably will when I correct your mistakes or again point out things you said was wrong.

Spelling is one of two things in life you need. You need to do basic math and know how to write and read. You will learn soon enough when you get a job or take college classes that you will fail in life if you don't write correctly. Don't give me that lame excuse of dyslexia. My sister has it as does my father. My father is an inspiration becaue he never took the easy road out and forced himself to rellearn his thinking. My sister hates doing math and writing because it is hard for her eyes and mind to connect the two and work them out. BUT she does get the most pleasure also out of getting As on her math because she persevered.

I will say it one last time. You don't improve your writing I will not reply. Minor loss for both of us but I don't have time trying to determine what you said and what you mean. If you don't learn to overcome your obstacle then you will always be a slave to it.

BigTeddyPaul

Luc Solar
03-16-2003, 05:59 AM
:disaprove


People spent hours upon hours of their precious time in searching for all those quotes from the bible etc. and argumenting their case. Suddenly the whole thread goes *poof* because...what - the thread starter decides he'd prefer to talk about something else now?

That was not very thoughtful. You expect everyone to go through the trouble of writing all that stuff AGAIN, because you intentionally deleted it?

And on top of that you

...hope there will be no criticism in this thread or hurtful comments.

:rolleyes:

So what's is the moral of the story?

Answer: make a copy of every post, 'cause you never know; someone might suddenly decide to delete the whole thread.

Live and learn. :(

C'jais
03-16-2003, 07:23 AM
I've a question:

Can someone (Christian or not) explain to me which role "the Holy Spirit" has?

I mean, God (the father) created everything. Jesus died for our sins so we could get to heaven.

What does the holy spirit do? Isn't it a bit redundant?


Did y'all notice I've learned something from these threads -C'

obi
03-16-2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by C'jais
I've a question:

Can someone (Christian or not) explain to me which role "the Holy Spirit" has?

I mean, God (the father) created everything. Jesus died for our sins so we could get to heaven.

What does the holy spirit do? Isn't it a bit redundant?


The Holy Spirit is the house cleaner. It vacuumes the floor and changes the socks.


lol, actually, I have no idea. I know that's bad being a christian myself, but I'll try tofind and answer and tell ya later. :)


To Mandolorian:


"Better then the averadge american"


I know this is bad for a mod to say, but shut up. :)

Reborn Outcast
03-16-2003, 09:03 AM
Mandolorian I'm sorry but deleating that thread was the worst thing you could have done. I agree totally with what Shock and BigTeddy just said. Shock didn't ever get his questions answered after like 2 WEEKS!!! I spent a TON of time writing my responses and you deleated them? Just wondering but was it because you did not have an answer. Next time, at least tell us when you're going to do that so we can post the same things here...

Another thing. How am I supposed to remember exactly what I said about free-will from the other thread? Exactly?! Then I won't get my point across if i don't.

To a mod or an admin who is reading this, is there anyway that you guys can get the thread back long enough for us to be able to get our posts?

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
but better than the average american.[/]b

:eek: Honestly, my 5 year old cousin can spell etter than you and you're 17.

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
[B]Spelling is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I'm going to assume you're a senior in highschool. Have fun working in McDonalds where you don't have to write anything. :rolleyes: And if you're going to college, good luck cause they kinda like correct spelling there.




Originally posted by C'jais
Can someone (Christian or not) explain to me which role "the Holy Spirit" has?

Well, this is what I've learned from my pastor, my youth leader and from reading the Bible. The Holy Spirit is kinda the force that is always there for people. It is always inside of you and there to guide you. Its almost like a personal guardian angel to everyone, working differently in each person. Its almost to hard to comprehend that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one together, but they are seperate. Its to hard for me because my brain is only human, I'll admit that.

wassup
03-16-2003, 04:09 PM
:disaprove Please stop contradicting yourself...

You first say...
I promise not to intentionally flame in this thread.

then say...
but better than the average american.

*cough*

in other news...
Spelling is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Try telling that to my English teacher...:rolleyes:

Sorry Mand54, but looks like you are in a flame war too deep to crawl out of...best of luck :)

ET Warrior
03-16-2003, 04:56 PM
You could have just left the other thread and then made this thread.....
I think you've made a LOT of angry people by doing that.....you deleted that thread right after i'd spent 20 minutes typing a new response which never even got posted because you deleted it WHILE i was typing....that was really neat

And no, your spelling is NOT better than the average american.

And finally, we do have free will, seeya.

Luc Solar
03-16-2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by ET Warrior

And finally, we do have free will, seeya.

Ha ha ha ... that's what *you* think. I bet I'll see your butt in this thread again! :p


Seriously, about the spelling... I knew like...zero (0) people with dyslexia. Once I started posting on various international forums I've met 10.000 guys with that problem.(???)

Now...a cynical person would say that they're just too damn lazy to check their spelling, but..I dunno.
I mean...I'm finnish *and* drunk for christ sakes!

I write Finnish, Swedish and a bit of English as well, and if there is a word that I'm not sure how to spell I'll simply..


..........


...........


(wait for it...this is going to be a real surprise!)

......................


*drumroll*



............................................


LOOK IT UP.


Yes: I'll look it up. It takes a fraction of a second.

If you're dyslexic, fine. It just seems to me that all posters who are less than 15 years old are dyslexic...or just damn lazy.

Reborn Outcast
03-16-2003, 05:37 PM
Oh and Mandolorian, you know how you always said, "I'm waiting for your response" or something like that... well, we were waiting for yours to our posts for about a week, then you delete the thread... and now I'm waiting for you to enter this thread again.

C'jais
03-16-2003, 06:08 PM
So the Holy Spirit is like "The Force"?

Cool!

With that, who needs Jesus? :p

------------------------

That said, deleting the other thread was a pretty bad move, M54. Not only did it cost some users quite a bit of posts and points, but it's also a very strange way to walk out of a thread. Next time, just ask an admin to close it.

Y'know guys, it seems that all we ever argue about here is Religion and Iraq. Every thread bordering just slightly on one of those topics always end up going completely off piste and into the same discussions we've had a zillion times. It begins to tire me, to say the least.

We could just as well just have two threads, one titled Religion, and the other The Iraq crisis/anti-Americanism. That way, people only looking to duke that out would stick to those two threads.

Since we're already off topic in this thread as well, should I just close it, or let it run its course (with what might follow)?

El Sitherino
03-16-2003, 06:11 PM
lol what an ass. sorry but that was like said before very rude and very dumb. people actually somewhat enjoyed that thread because they learn more about the opposite "side"

Reborn Outcast
03-16-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by C'jais
So the Holy Spirit is like "The Force"?

Cool!

With that, who needs Jesus? :p

Well thats why its hard for me to comprehend. :D Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all one being but they are all different. God watches over EVERYTHING, he is the Creator of the universe (this is me speaking about my religion. :D ) Jesus is the Savior, he came down and died so that we may go to Heaven. The Holy Spirit is like our Guardian Angel thingy who is always with us. Thats about as best as I can explain it, maybe Obi will do it better. :D


Originally posted by C'jais
Since we're already off topic in this thread as well, should I just close it, or let it run its course (with what might follow)?

Let it run its course. I am interested in Mandolorians reply and response to all of this. If things start getting ugly LATER, (:D ) then you may close it. (BTW, did I lose points AND posts after he deleated that thread?

El Sitherino
03-16-2003, 06:18 PM
but i thought jesus was gods son. :confused:

Reborn Outcast
03-16-2003, 06:20 PM
But that's why us as humans can't comprehend. they are all the same, one being, yet they are not. I'm sorry but I can't explain it any better than I just did, it just escapes me. Obi'll come up with something though. :D

El Sitherino
03-16-2003, 06:22 PM
only one way to find out....KILL THE POPE ;) (im sorry if that offends anyone.) maybe the pope could tell us :D

BigTeddyPaul
03-16-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
[BNow...a cynical person would say that they're just too damn lazy to check their spelling, but..I dunno.
I mean...I'm finnish *and* drunk for christ sakes!
[/B]

Now we have even more in common. When I am drunk I think I am Finnish.

You mean he deleted our points as well?!?!? Mandalorian you owe me like 30 points!

Since Mandalorian is nowhere to respond the Holy Spirit is the third part to the Holy Trinity. The trinity is the fusion of polytheism and monotheism into one. Some scholars believe it was a way to attract followers to the cause because many of people of old did not want to believe in one god so this was sort o like a compromise. Kind of like the 3/5 law enacted in this government back in the 1900s where black people only counted as 3/5 of a person for taxes and representaion. God is the leader. He is the main honcho. Jesus is Jesus and is like a messsenger to us from God that took human form so we could go to heaven. The Holy Spirit is the messenger of God. He goes down to earth and does most of the dirty work. Ever hear someone say, "He is filled with the Holy Ghost?" They don't say God because they are two different entities. This is not proven fact at all this is just what I choose to believe. There are many different opinions on this so I will not criticise anyone on these ideals.

Pope is Catholic and some people do not believe Catholics are true Christians and divide them in determining Christianity.

BigTeddyPaul

ET Warrior
03-17-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
Ha ha ha ... that's what *you* think. I bet I'll see your butt in this thread again! :p

Oh i'm sure i'll be in this thread plenty.....the seeya at the end is not meant as an "I'm not coming back", it's a "I'm right and you're wrong, you're done" kinda thing ;)

As for dyslexia, I know a few kids who have dyslexia, and they actually spell alright, but that's because most people who have dyslexia try really hard to spell correctly because they don't want to look like an idiot.

obi
03-17-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Reborn Outcast
Obi'll come up with something though. :D

Don't take this the wrong way, but please don't put me on a pedestal. I'm prone to make a mistake, just as every human. ;) I'll do my best to explain it, but it may not be good enough, I dunno, let's see. ;)

God is our Heavenly father, He watches out for us, cares for us, and gives us grace.

Jesus, his son, is the second of the holy trinity. Jesus came down and took one heckuva pounding, so that we would be healed and he died so we could be forgiven.

The holy ghost, is the third in the holy trinity. The holy ghost is not an actual "character," if you will, but instead, more of a feeling. When mourning the loss of a loved one, The holy ghost is what is there to comfort. (you must pray through tough times as this,mind you) When someone has the zeal, the heavy wanting, to go to church, that is the holy ghost in action. When you are sad or lonely, the holy ghost comes into play.

The holy ghost is the comforter and emotional of the holy trinity.

(Of course, this is all my opinion, but I believe it to be true. If you disagree, I don't care, I ain't goin to cast a spell on you or eat you or something.)

Er, I think I explained that good enough. ;)

C'jais
03-17-2003, 05:24 PM
That's nice of you guys to explain that. I believe I learned something.

Cheers all.

Reborn Outcast
03-17-2003, 06:05 PM
Ahh no problem C'jais. :D

Now if Mandolorian would actually come out of hiding...

ioshee
03-17-2003, 06:38 PM
I know you already said, “cheers all” about the Holy Spirit thing, but I didn’t get a chance to share yet:(

The best explanation is that the Holy Spirit is like the force. Jesus sent the HS when he returned to Heaven (after being raised from the dead) because he would not be with us anymore. Basically it acts as our guiding force if we let it flow through us (let the force flow through you.) But here’s the confusing part: The Holy Spirit is Jesus, and the Father for that matter. They are one and yet three entities. This is hard for us to comprehend because nothing that we know is one and three. Just like it’s hard for us to comprehend that God has no beginning because everything we have ever known has a beginning.

So, to sum up:
Father: The head, leader
Jesus: The part of God that we are meant to relate to because he was totally human
Holy Spirit: The Force (I like to call it the Holy Force)

Yet they are equal. Like men and women are equal and yet men lead women.

Reborn Outcast
03-17-2003, 06:45 PM
Thanks for repeating what I said. :rolleyes: ;) ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D :D

Just kidding. Good explanation ioshee and obi -- sorry for puttin you on the spot, its just that you said you had gone to research it. :D

BigTeddyPaul
03-17-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by ioshee
Yet they are equal. Like men and women are equal and yet men lead women.

I am going to be a turd here. Where does the Bible say that men and women are equal? Were they all entitled to the same non-physical things (love, heaven, etc)? Yes they were. BUT BUT BUT Women in Catholocism cannot be priestesses. I know in Assemblies of God women pastors are rare and usually get jobs such as youth pastor and music teacher. In fact, women are not allowed to be deacons in most churches.

In the realm of almost all religion women are still on the lower rung. My college professor said (don't know if this is true) said that back in the day during the pagan reign there were all these cult type thingies where women were the head of religion being Priestess of the Flower or something. Since religion meant power men did not like it and create religions where they were in control.

I am not saying that women and men are not equal but how many times did you hear of women having concubine type people because their husband couldn't produce?

I am sure I am missing something and if I think about it then I will post it. If I need to make a thread about this as opposed to placing it here let me know. Just something more to talk about.

BigTeddyPaul

griff38
03-18-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by ioshee
I know you already said, “cheers all” about the Holy Spirit thing, but I didn’t get a chance to share yet:(

The best explanation is that the Holy Spirit is like the force.

AHHA!
Ok, and I am the only one who noticed Annakin Skywalker was born of an immaculate conception? He is extremely intelligent and superiors to his peers he has special powers etc etc... See where Iam going with this?

Jesus was most likely a Jedi! He just was born in a place & time where no one had heard of Jedis so they figured he must be a messiah. But he was just a Midiclorean genrerated force wielder!

Good thing he was a Light Jedi.

Well, i thought it was funny.

daring dueler
03-18-2003, 04:52 PM
well free will is just the rite given by god to do what we want, but if we do things they way he suggests we will lead a better life.

BigTeddyPaul
03-18-2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by daring dueler
well free will is just the rite given by god to do what we want, but if we do things they way he suggests we will lead a better life.

I think that is by far the best post on this so far. Kudos to you!

I remember when my church heard that Anakin didn't have a father and was just suddenly conceived. There was actually some major talk of boycotting the movie. I LAUGHED SO HARD hearing all these adults (19 now) talk ridiculous notions of like writng their regional pastor and picketting theaters. Of course almost everyone told them to get over it, just a movie, and it was not influencing religion.

BigTeddyPaul

Mandalorian54
03-18-2003, 06:49 PM
I spent hours on posts in the other thread to, I even went down a rank after deleating it.


But there was too much dumb stuff in it.

mostly Paul and Outcast.

Well since almost anything can be considered a "flame"

then I'll have to be more specific, I won't insult anyone too harshly.


but it's not like you had any good points in there anyway Paul.

I mean, you didn't have one scrap of biblically supported evidence.

and I certainly wasn't loosing, and you certainly werent wining, You NEVER disproved what I said.

and all that ballony about Judging people and the plank in the eye. like I havn't heard that a million times.

And the whole my ignoring shock...

paleeeeeeeeesseee

and the nitpickyness of my spelling.......


you sound like a mom.

there was just toooooo much CRAP.

and if you don't like it I just might do it again.


My spelling is also particularily bad over the intenet cuz I type fast and carelessly.


now about free will, do you have any biblical support for any of your arguments?

obi
03-18-2003, 06:57 PM
DON'T pick a fight, because I will end it.


Have a nice day. :)

BigTeddyPaul
03-18-2003, 07:08 PM
(Restrained) Soooo wannt to bash him. Mussstt resssist. Aw screw it. Resistance is futile.'


It would be nice to show you proof of my points BUT YOU DELETED THE THREAD!!!!! They must have been good enough for you to delete them.

I only started the whole losing thing after that one time when I told you I wouldn't reply to you anymore on the subject because neither one of us was budging. You said I was losing and in man terms you were calling me out. And since men pride themselves on (pauses) their pride I had to continue the whole "you are losing" thing.

If I didn't disprove what you said you sure didn't disprove what I said. It is a moot (is that how you spell that?) point.

If you've heard that whole plank in the eye a million times maybe people are trying to tell you something.

If you do delete another thread again I can almost guarantee you we will hate you and not talk to you. People are still a little ticked off that you deleted the other thread.

You still owe me 30 points!

That is about as flame free as I could make it. Hope that is good enough.

BigTeddyPaul

obi
03-18-2003, 07:15 PM
I understand your frustration, about Mandolorian deleting the thread, but please, let it go. As soon as I get points, i'll pay back whatever you lost if you'd forget this whole thing. It's a thorn in my butt the size of Texas. I hate folks fightin on the boards.

Mandalorian54
03-18-2003, 07:20 PM
disprove what you said?

you didn't prove what you said!

I deleted it cuz it got outa hand, not cuz I felt I was loosing.

you must have based that on past experience.

No one was loosing or wining, I posted three verses which stated my point, then you posted the whole section which "Aperently" was supposed to disprove what I said, then I backed it up with the key phrase of the verse which YOU neglected to mention in your summary.

Which is that God has to call us.

If "...By the Father who calls us." doesn't mean he has to call us, then what does it mean?

The only way to heaven is throught the Father who calls us, but he doesn't nessicarily have to call us?

I don't think so, And niether do alot of Scholars, Pastors, and Teachers.

I find your posts to be mostly philisofical, and in almost no way biblically supported.

BigTeddyPaul
03-18-2003, 07:24 PM
I said my peace at the beginning of the thread. He starts it back up again. All my posts (besides the first one and a sentence where I learned I lost my points) have said nothing more on the matter. I let it go but he must keep bringing it up.

By the way Obi you must have a huge posterior if you have a thorn that big in it.

Edit: the post above me was posted before i wrote this. I am leaving this to Obi.

BigTeddyPaul

obi
03-18-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul


By the way Obi you must have a huge posterior if you have a thorn that big in it.



My posterior is none of your business! :mad:

:p


Edit: the post above me was posted before i wrote this. I am leaving this to Obi.

Thanks. :)


Seriously, if you're gonna argue your points, do it in an adult manner. If you want to fight, do it in PM's. No one wants to read a bunch of Bolshevik about simple arguments.

Please Mandolorian and Paul, do that somewhere else. I don't care who started what, but please, let by gones be by gones.

Mandalorian54
03-18-2003, 07:34 PM
Yah your right, the bickering will stop here.

Mandalorian54
03-18-2003, 07:46 PM
I think most people believe in free will cuz it's easer. It's easy to misinterpert the Bible, and it's easy to be led astray.

But even if youve read the Bible many times, reading it more will help you see things that you didn't see before, and the only real way to find the truth is through the Bible.

A good exercise on free will is to read the book of ROMANS three times within a week. Reading it that fast over and over in such a short time, will really make things clearer that you didn't see before.



And Paul I told you what kind of a Christian I was, and I'm curiouse to know what kind you are.

If your not too upset.:)

ShockV1.89
03-18-2003, 08:11 PM
:mad:

Unlike Paul, I will resist the temptation to flame... I will just say this...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Very insulted that you think so little of ignoring me that you respond to it with a rather snotty "paleeeeeeeeesseee"....

:disaprove

Anyway...

Bible verses aside... you claim that we have no free will, correct? That means that god is choosing to make me question his existence? Furthermore, he is choosing for the rapist to rape the little girl, the social worker to help the homeless, and the stockbroker selling his shares of Enron (an act of divine intervention, indeed!).

Everything that we do, you say, is the result of God conciously willing it to be. I mean, he wills that one specific act? If you believe anything other than that, then we still have free will...

How would you respond to that? (oh, I forgot, you ignore me...)

BigTeddyPaul
03-18-2003, 08:53 PM
If I understand what he says correctly it goes like this:

We don't have free will because God at any time can intervene and say no and force us to do something. He chooses not to but because he has the power to do so we have no free will.

I think that is what he says. At least that is how I have tried to understand what he says.

Concerning my religion: I am inbetween. I have been raised Assemlies of God and have been to many other denominations most notably a stinit for a year at a Baptist church. I do not agree with AoG principles so I have choosen to distance myself from their denomination.

Things I do not understand or agree with: Speaking in tongues. At my church people freely spoke in tongues during prayer and it was the most oddest thing I ever witnessed. People would literally say, "Hymuil lopel doopa," and that would be their personal communication with God which only they understood. Not trying to rag on AoG guys but I never for a second believed that.

ALSO we had this pastor who was not allowed to become a pastor through the AoG program because he was going to be remarried. So what he did was become ordained as a pastor through another denomination and then was allowed to be a pastor at my church because he was an ordained pastor even though AoG wouldn't ordain him because he wouldn't comply with their teachings (ain't run of sentences grand?. So in other words they wouldn't make him a pastor but they would allow him to work as a pastor in one of their churches.

No one is going to mess with my women subject?

BigTeddyPaul

ShockV1.89
03-18-2003, 08:59 PM
Then we have free will. Having the power to do something is not the same thing as actually doing it. I have the power to kill my dog at any time, but I dont. But on this line of thinking, I would be a dog-killer because I have the power to do so. Likewise, we have no free-will because god has the power to make us do something.

Doesnt work. See, unless god is contantly excercising that power at every moment, we still have free will. As long as the power is not being used on us, we are free to choose what to do, when to do it, and who to do it with.

We stop having free will when he starts using that power. And since god is proposed to be a good, kind, loving god, and this world is messed up in so many ways, I choose to believe that he lets us choose our own fate more than he does it for us...

BigTeddyPaul
03-18-2003, 11:46 PM
As I said rthat is as best as I could understand it. Don't know if that is what he meant just how I understand how he means it.

BigTeddyPaul

Reborn Outcast
03-19-2003, 12:23 AM
Ohhh boy here we go...

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
But there was too much dumb stuff in it.

mostly Paul and Outcast.

:rolleyes: I actually disproved your theories and I will do so again later in this post since you ask me to. Is that dumb?

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
And the whole my ignoring shock...

paleeeeeeeeesseee

Just tell us why you ignored him and maybe we'll leave you alone about it.

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
and the nitpickyness of my spelling.......


you sound like a mom.

Just so you know, its very hard to read posts..

tht r tiped like tis.


Originally posted by Mandolorian54
now about free will, do you have any biblical support for any of your arguments?

Yes and in fact, I will use your own "evidence" to disprove what you said. Watch this.

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
I posted three verses which stated my point, then you posted the whole section which "Aperently" was supposed to disprove what I said, then I backed it up with the key phrase of the verse which YOU neglected to mention in your summary.

I'm about to include them. Since you so brightly deleated the thread, I find it hard to remember them but I think I do.

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
If "...By the Father who calls us." doesn't mean he has to call us, then what does it mean?

The only way to heaven is throught the Father who calls us, but he doesn't nessicarily have to call us?

Ok first off, you're taking PART of ONE verse in the ENTIRE Bible to try and say we don't have free will?

Second, thats not what were saying.

One of your verses talked about sinful people not being able to come to God, for God does not want sin. (((It would be a lot easier to do this if you actually poted your verses over again.)))

Speaking in theory... If God does not want sin, why would he call the sinners to him? Simple. I've said this around five times so far. GOD EXTENDS HIS HAND TO THEM. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT IT!!! THAT IS FREE WILL. THEY CAN EITHER ACCEPT HIS EXTENDED HAND, OR REJECT IT. How hard is that to comprehend? Now, I think we both agree that God extends his hand to EVERYONE, correct?

Well, If EVERYONE in the world HAD to accept it because we don't have free will, THERE WOULD BE NO SIN. NO BAD PEOPLE. Do you understand? You say that, once God extends his hand, we HAVE to take it. If this was true, we would live in a perfect world because everyone would be following God. And remember, we both agree that God extends his hand to everyone.

And you want Biblical proof? Check out "freewill offerings." Check them out. They're talked about a ton in Exodus and Leviticus.

Also, please explain this to me since you have your pamphlet of all-knowing.

In Genesis, God created humans for companionship, correct? Why would he want that companionship to go astry and become sinful? He would, because it hurts him. So, why would he (since you think we have no free will) why would he force Eve to eat the fruit, knowing full well what would happen to the human race? Huh? Why would he FORCE them to sin, which he does not like in fact he cries everytime we do it? If it wasn't by ADAM AND EVES CHOICE, it doesn't make sense that God would FORCE them to do that, does it?


Originally posted by Mandolorian54
I think most people believe in free will cuz it's easer. It's easy to misinterpert the Bible, and it's easy to be led astray.

And you think that a man, with the same Bible as us, who wrote a pamphlet that you look at, have more "knowledge" of God's plan for us? I think not.

Originally posted by Mandolorian54
If your not too upset. :)

Don't do this again. Don't try to make people mad.


Mandolorian, since you seem to have a problem with actually responding to peoples posts, read this and then RESPOND to it. Last time I posted something in the other thread, you skipped over it and said things like "oh reborn you're acting like a child." Should I just assume that my points in my posts were to good for you to counter? If this is not true, then QUOTE MY POST AND RESPOND TO THE ENTIRE THING!!!

Thanks.

ShockV1.89
03-19-2003, 01:18 AM
pwned!!!11 ;) :p

BigTeddyPaul
03-19-2003, 01:43 AM
The redness BURNS! I am going to pull a Rhett where I run in, look around, run out, and then say what I feel like saying so the Obi's buttocks become smaller from all the swelling.

I don't remember if this was in the thread that was deleted or not but you said that Emperor Constantine founded Christianity. You are wrong. Constantine legalized Christianity and made it the religion of the land but he did not found it. Paul or Peter (little of both and people argue who actually did found it. My vote is Paul) founded Christianity based on the works, life, and laws that Christ gave us. People were still considered Jews before Paul came and converted them. If this is in another thread that was not deleted tell me and I will place it there.

BigTeddyPaul

Mandalorian54
03-19-2003, 09:13 PM
Im not going to bother with you:)

I don't care for what uneducated things you have to say.

You must have worked so hard on those long posts too...:rolleyes:


As for respect of people on this site. I care not.



I simply believe we don't have free will and that God is so powerful he can stop us from doing anything and make us do anything. And at times, he does.

You believe God can but doesn't.

And I won't argue with you, and you are wasting your time.


:) have a nice day :)


Edit: I will say one thing to you Reborn Outcast. I have said many times, but it's not getting through that thick skull of yours, God doesn't make us he let's us.

And if you don't believe God can see the futur then your very uneducated. Don't you remember when Jacob and Esaw were born, and God says he knew them before they were born and he knew that Esaw was bad and Jacob was good.

Mabee you should read the Bible. just a suggestion.

wassup
03-19-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
I don't care for what uneducated things you have to say.

As for respect of people on this site. I care not.

Well if you say things like this to other people than of course you are going to get flamed back...:rolleyes:

This is a discussion forum. Don't you have to respect other people's opinions when you are having a discussion in one of your classes or something? Im sorry Mandy but you are making me :barf:

Kain
03-19-2003, 09:28 PM
Mandolorian54
Your pathetic. lol.

you went to all that trouble, man you have no life.

Like you realy think I care for what some nerd has to say.

**** your a dumbass.

You will die alone

Go suck your mom's dick mother ****er!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, isnt this the voice of God manifesting itself...albeit the guy sent this in response to me callin him a shmucktastic dummy*in not so nice words, mind you*, but c'mon. I thought Christians were nice to their fellow man? Hehehe, or does that not apply to 'the average American'?
Is God stopping me? No. Theres yer answer about freewill you white collar assclown*Note this flame only goes against Mandolorian. All you other Christians are AOkay wit me:D*

EDIT - Added lines so everyone can see the break. Watch Mando boy close this thread too...

BigTeddyPaul
03-19-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by wassup
Mandy

Mandy. Hahaha. Oh I love your new location. First it was pimpin on the streets and now it is keepin da asses tapped. Very nice. Is that a joke too that you saw on a shirt?

This is not meant as a flame.

Mandalorian: I have no respect for you. It is not because of your beliefs. It is not because of your deleting the thread. It is not because you are pimping the streets. It is because you are disrespetful. You expect us to care about your ideas and respond to them yet you do not hold this ideal to yourself. I don't know why you choose to ignore peoples posts. Maybe it is because they have some valid points and you choose not to acknowledge them? Maybe you don't know the truth yourself? I don't know. What I do know is that time and time again you have proven yourself to by immature and rude. Have a fun life because from here on in I am ignoring you. Even if you write that the Devil is Jesus I will not respond to any of your comments.

I have nothing more to say to you.

BigTeddyPaul

C'jais
03-19-2003, 09:49 PM
People, this has gone way out of hand. Again.

You can tear each other's throats out offline, but while on this forum, you will respect each other.

It's ok to not like each other. It's ok not wanting to reply to each other. It's not ok to go for the man instead of the argument.

I'll close this thread. I don't like doing it, but until you guys get the message, I'll have to.

obi
03-19-2003, 10:32 PM
This also happens to be my last warning. One more, just ONE, and the participants who misbehave will be banned.

Have a nice day. :)