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XERXES
03-16-2003, 07:47 PM
im getting really tired of all these anti-war people, espically in my town (there are anti-war marches and parades constantly) i just wish theyd stop being ignorant, open their eyes...listen...and hear out WHY WE NEEDED TO DO THIS. I can go on and on about why this is the thing we had to do. Maybe it could have been prevented a lonnggg time ago (in the late 80s) but unfortunately it wasnt...and we gotta deal with it. I cant even speak out in class without getting shot down and flamed by all the anti-war people in class. Its really making me mad, i would be ok if they would be open to different opinions....

Reborn Outcast
03-16-2003, 07:48 PM
My suggestion would have been to post this in one of the 4,000 iraq threads floating around. :D (The titles are misleading, inside you'll find the content :D )

But, I agree that we should go to war, but it is a free country, and people are allowed to do whatever they want unless they become violent in their protests. They all have valid points also.

ShockV1.89
03-16-2003, 07:54 PM
I think thats a problem with society. People refuse to listen or consider other peoples opinions or viewpoints, even if they contain something meaningful (read:Mandalorian54).

Some of the anti-war people are very stupid, this is true. But consider... perhaps maybe you're not listening to their points as well? It's a two way street, this, and sometimes people do it without even realizing it.

I go to a very, very, very liberal college (New Paltz in NY), and the anti-war movement is strong. I'm mostly neutral in it, but I like to play devils advocate in any class debates that arise, just to see the anti-war people get hopping mad when I refute one of their points. Still, I'd love to see one of those people actually sit down and listen to what I say, instead of just getting furious that someone would dare disagree with them... :rolleyes:

Darklighter
03-16-2003, 08:21 PM
My previous view on this whole subject was that I was totally against the concept of war, despite how bad the circumstances were. And I still am - I really hate the idea that we need to go to war, I hate it with a passion, but the key word there is need. I realise now the inevitable, and pray everything will be alright in the end:(

Darth Groovy
03-16-2003, 10:10 PM
http://www.themanipulation.com/seatbelts.jpg

C'jais
03-17-2003, 10:26 AM
You could start by telling us why you think Saddam is a threat, why you think he isn't disarming, and why you have a right to bomb every country you do not approve with.

;)

No really, I can understand why you get pissed at people who won't even take the time to listen to your arguments. Then again, both sides have probably heard the same points over and over again, so I guess they felt like they couldn't even care about listening.

Breton
03-17-2003, 12:28 PM
Saying that all anti-war people are dumb, or saying that all dumb people are anti-war, is generalizing, and also very wrong. There are dumb people on both sides, as well as smart people on both sides. You complain about that anti-war people being ignorant. Some are, but that goes just for the same for pro-war people. Do you think all these childish France-bashers have ever bothered to find out what France really means? No. Wich makes them pretty ignorant (the France-bashers, that is). And then we have all those who are by some reason convinced that Sadam is the end of the world if we don't stop him, wich isn't very bright either. Sides in such matters aren't based on intelligence, but on point of view. Luckily, most here on Lucasforums are fairly intelligent and can debate stuff, dumb people can't.

BigTeddyPaul
03-17-2003, 01:50 PM
I don't get the US on this one. The Council of like the world chooses, according to its own rules, to not attack Iraq and the US still says that it is going to attack Iraq. Do I believe that Saddam is dangerous? YES. Do I believe he would use those weapons? YES. The thing is though we do not know that and there is no way to prove he would use them on anyone not of his country (I know that sounds harsh). Why do we (US) always feel like we are above everything and everyone else yet expect everyone else to play by the rules?

BigTeddyPaul

El Sitherino
03-17-2003, 06:23 PM
uhm well guys did ya'll know tommorow the war begins? the U.N. pulled out their inspectors this morning and the US troops are now advancing toward the "starting line".

swphreak
03-17-2003, 06:33 PM
"Begun the Cl War has."

I just hope in the end everything will turn out ok.....

El Sitherino
03-17-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
I just hope in the end everything will turn out ok..... That's a useless hope. this war is gonna last quite a while I'm guessing 3-5 years.

Reborn Outcast
03-17-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by InsaneSith
That's a useless hope. this war is gonna last quite a while I'm guessing 3-5 years.

I doubt that. It will take some time but not 3-5 years. Thats gonna be the time for the rebuilding process. :D

And, there going to be a lot of people feeling stupid no matter how this war turns out...

BigTeddyPaul
03-17-2003, 07:13 PM
3-5 years? Did you see how long it took us to clear out the Taliban? With todays technology it won't last that long unless they kill off so many men and women or something it will not be that long. There will be an occupying force left IF we take over. Hate to be them.

BigTeddyPaul

El Sitherino
03-17-2003, 07:17 PM
uhmmm... no thats the estimated time given by the armed forces. and so what about todays technology do you realise how many people saddaam has behind him? its alot more than you think. plus when we attack Iraq we're are gonna be attacked by other countries. there is a 45% possibility that this will turn into WW3. It may not seem so bad but it is.

ET Warrior
03-17-2003, 09:44 PM
You made up that percentage.

I highly doubt any other countries will attack us, for multiple reasons, one of them being that they know the US is a bit of a bully and we'll just kick their ass for it.

I think 3-5 years is EXTREMELY too long an estimate for how long it'll take for this war....i mean, seriously, with all the advanced bombs, missiles, and weapons we have....and the way we trashed their air force and weapon stocks during the Gulf War....I dunno.

El Sitherino
03-17-2003, 10:06 PM
i didnt make up the percentage and you seriously are naive. you realise what we are going into dont you? in the gulf war we were only beating his smallest armies we never faced the entire army. he has a larger army than you think.

Reborn Outcast
03-17-2003, 10:27 PM
But many of his army members are forced to be there and have little or no love for him. That makes his army considerably smaller when it comes to pressure situations.

And could I see a link to where you got that statistic? (Just curious)

El Sitherino
03-17-2003, 10:36 PM
I saw it on CNN. when they interviewed some army guys.

El Sitherino
03-19-2003, 10:30 PM
U.S. has deployed around 235,000 military personnel in the Gulf region and Britain has committed some 45,000. Strike force includes dozens of warships and nearly 600 attack planes. Australia has committed its 2,000-strong force of troops, jet fighters and warships in the Gulf.

Iraq has some 350,000 troops, an air force short of planes and pilots, and a small navy. Saddam's personal bodyguard numbers some 15,000 Special Security Force Organization troops.
Iraq has 350,000 troops and 15,000 special forces.

Andy867
03-20-2003, 12:16 AM
What you guys forget is that it took only a little over a month back in the Desert Storm era to get Saddam's troops to withdraw back to Iraq. Plus, Iraq's forces AREN'T as great as what is reported. People have to realize that for every 20 tanks that Saddam has, only 4 of them work, and of those that do work, parts still have to be taken out to make OTHER tanks work. Iraq barely has a Air Force to be reckoned with, and the Navy is next to nothing. Plus, with our F-117A Nighthawks which are undetectable by convential radar, we can fly into Iraq, strike them hard, and return back to base before they(Iraq) have time to react. Plus other countries are pledging their troops and support to this war. So there will be more than just the US and British troops.

ShadowTemplar
03-20-2003, 02:52 PM
Two words: Baghdad City.

Desert Storm was played out in, surprise, surprise, the desert... I dunno, does the name Stalingrad ring any bells with you?

BTW: Only the British SAS saved the US from coming out of Desert Storm looking like total morons. The US forces couldn't even locate a few SCUD-launchers... :rolleyes:

Andy867
03-24-2003, 12:03 PM
Notice how Saddam says he destroyed His Al Sammoud 2 missiles, yet half of his attack have been with both SCUD and the banned Al Sammoud 2 missiles. Also, why would Iraqi soldiers have gas masks unless they expected a chemical warfare, which the U.S. wont provide, only Iraq. That should send a flag up right there in most people's minds. Also, this war could have been prevented, unlike the Gulf War. we gave saddam the chance to leave the country in exile, and avoid a war, whereas with the gulf war, Saddam's troops marched into Kuwait unprovoked. So, this war with Iraq could have been avoided, and since Saddam refused to leave the country, there was little choice but to take him out by force.

And for those who compare Bush to people like Hitler and the Devil. All I can say is that who obviously haven't read the de-classified reports that say from high-ranking officials and victims under Saddam's regime that show that Saddam executed millions via meat-grinders, chemical baths, gas chambers, and had women raped and ravished.
Bush has done nothing even remotely of the sort. So if anything, compare SADDAM to Hitler, who also used gas chambers and chemical baths.

ShadowTemplar
03-24-2003, 12:18 PM
There is an easy reason for handing out gas-masks to your troops, even if you have no intention of using ABC-weapons yourself: Make them think that the enemy will. Makeing your soldiers think that the enemy is Horus incarnate will make them less likely to put their hands in the air.

Andy867
03-24-2003, 02:37 PM
What I find comical is that the Iraqi 51st Mechanized Infantry, one of Iraq's better equipped armies, surrendered without a fight.. More than 8,000 troops and 200 tanks.. just like that, they throw their hands in the air, not a shot fired. What's even funnier is that despite being the better equipped, they were in fact underfed with no official uniforms.. More like t-shirts. I knew from the beginning that this wasn't going to be a short war, but I question why people think it will take 3-5 years when not 12 years ago when we had what is now inferior technology besides the stealth planes, we were able to force Saddam to withdraw his troops out of Kuwait in a matter of less than 2 calendar months. Now we have better technology, more experienced combat troops, and better resources. And to think all this is being done without the help of the U.N.