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master_thomas
03-22-2003, 02:33 PM
I'm making a series of levels. I've talked about it alot and decided to make a showcase thread.

To save space, I'm putting everything on one thread.

Storyline: Several months after the battle between the republic with the jedi and the imperial remnant with their reborn troops, Jan has disappeared.

Kyle, seeking help from Luke, rushed to Yavin IV. He finds Luke behind a forcefield and there are several reborn behind him.....

Pictures will be posted in a moment.

master_thomas
03-22-2003, 02:46 PM
Can't get the picture to load here. Try my
site (http://www.thomasjk2.moonfruit.com)
Check the screenshots, which will be updated over time. The ones at Yavin are number one, which is in beta(available for download there). The ones at Bespin are number 2.

master_thomas
03-22-2003, 03:21 PM
As usual, post any comments according to the pictures here.

Testers, use the beta testing thread in the beta testing forum. I'm much more proud of #2 than #1, but they're both good in my opinion.

master_thomas
03-22-2003, 10:22 PM
Since no one's posting yet, I'll go into extra features that will be implemented for the whole series.

I made the bryar shots green and made the muzzle flash white. I don't remember any orange shots in any of the movie. Other than red, green was most common.(Not including Clone Trooper Rifle's blue shots, but this is forty years later, where I haven't seen a blue blast at all. Correct me if I'm wrong please.)

The sabers were slightly tweaked. I core now has a faint, consistent, color and the glow has more color, but is thinner. This was taken from actual pictures of episode 2.

The force push and pull affects were removed. This was done in weapons upgrade v.2 I think, but I think it makes more sense, so I did it. Not Plagiarism.

I have a custom menu, working objectives, and custom credits.

I wanted to make my first mod big and unique. There it is. On my website, I'll post new pics of the saber and bryar shots. The force push is simple. No gray effect and so I won't be posting those pictures because I want to conserve upload storage (My site's on moonfruit).

boinga1
03-23-2003, 09:10 AM
uh...yah...i'm trying this and i'm stuck on the room with all the jedi...there's two broken elevators, a busted door, and the elevaTOR i came down on...???

master_thomas
03-23-2003, 10:18 AM
The floor is breakable in a small square to the right of the middle elevator when facing the wall. I think there is a slight crack in it. It takes a LOT of hits though. If there is no visible change, I'll change the texture slightly.

JDKnite188
03-23-2003, 10:21 AM
The architecture is far too basic. From what I saw the level was a series of huge connected boxes. In one screenshot there was a room full of turrets in a formation on the floor? IMO that is poor enemy placement. Who would put that many turrets in one room?

master_thomas
03-23-2003, 10:33 AM
I'm upgrading those screenshots as I complete stages of architecture. The extra enemies are to make up for the fact that I haven't strengthened them in the NPCS.cfg, like I did for number one.

I'm also still building the basic architecture. I'm starting with eight rooms. I just added the entities. I'm just getting to the details. Like the door frames, I have these buttress-like things in the corners of each room. I'm going to replace the first shots as I add, but it is currently under construction.

I removed most of the turrets. Now there are just four turrets on the ceiling, shadowtroopers behind the large boxes, and I made force crystals fly out of some of the boxes(that is why they are being guarded). All those blasters and the chunks from the breakables caused the game to crash anyway. Most the turrets are gone now and the remaining are on the ceiling, there are now half as many boxes, and it stopped crashing.

master_thomas
03-23-2003, 02:36 PM
New screenshots. The storage room is now kind of a cellar. There is a water heater and furnace, which has pipes with flames in the back.

Kengo
03-23-2003, 07:35 PM
Hey man, some sites like geocities and I guess yours don't let you have pictures on them put up somewhere else. On http://massassi.net/ the Editors Corner is one good place to put screen shots, just an idea.

Sounds like yu've got a lot of creative ideas, and are gonna try to put plot elements so they affect the actual levels, rather than just having a stroyline in the readme and then the level having no relation to the story at all, as many levels do. One thing I'd like to suggest: don't try to do too much. I'm not saying don't be creative, innovative and cover new ground if you can, just don't try to do too much. Don't aim for a 5 level mod complete with a 10 page script, because for your first SP level (I think it is right? correct me if I'm wrong) you will probabaly never get that done. A fairly small but well formed level is a lot better than a super ambitious project that is never finished, like so many before. Good luck!

master_thomas
03-23-2003, 09:08 PM
Thanks Kengo. Yup, It's my first level, though I've actually been experimenting since September. That's why I'm being so ambitious. I just wish I could find the thread on dynamic light for gun shots so I can give that person credit like I did you and Rich.

The problem with pictures on moonfruit is that every page has the same URL so I don't know how I would list the addresses of my pictures. Never thought of the editor's corner. Thanks for that too.

master_thomas
03-23-2003, 10:40 PM
http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10423.jpg

Put it on the editor's corner. Same storage room, but now a boiler room! Now is it a bunch of huge connected blocks? I got hooked on bending patches :rolleyes:. Any suggestions to improve this room? As stated in my website, every crate (the furnace is NOT a crate) is breakable and some contain items. More pics to come, but this is my most detailed room so far. This is Bespin. Should this be accesed by stairs, or an elevator? I'm using stairs and to me, it just feels right.

boinga1
03-24-2003, 04:55 PM
the beta map is not so great.the first part felt like a ladder, but there just wasn't enough to it. The storyline isn't too great, and the level's too shortfor anything to really happen. the hole in the floor had way too much HP-I stood there hacking with heavy syance for several minutes just to take out one block. I couldn't tell where the hole really was anyway....it was in the black area around the elevator. suggestions-more cutscenes, maybe a fight to reach the top, then a fight back down. and the 2 stromies at the end-get real! I mean, 15 reborn and shadowtroopers and []i2[/i] stormies!

master_thomas
03-24-2003, 07:56 PM
I agree with all of those, but there really wasn't any way to increase the size. I'll halfen the hp of the breakable and retexture it. Just thought, maybe make you open the hanger door, but I can't think of much else to do.

As for cutscenes, maybe I can have Kyle, the jedi that you start with for #2, and Luke run to the Raven's Claw. Then an action cutscene of Luke and a shadow trooper fighting. As for the odd ratio of stormies to reborn, the last battle of JK2 proved to the imperial remnant the effectiveness of reborn. They actually killed jedi successfully so they increased production of reborn, but I'll add stormies. Cutscenes are hard because I don't have a microphone for the computer, but I could have Kyle use the "it's locked. There must be another way in" sound for him breaking the first tile.

The reason it's so strong is that your cutting through solid floor. It's damaged, but still in okay shape. I'll make the elevator breakable instead of a random piece of flooring and make the drop a cutscene. Kyle can jump up and out and fire the last few shots. A thin prush on top, which, when broken will activate that. Then jump down.

How can I make NPC immune to falling? Like a cushion brush(doesn't effect NPCs). I tried no impact(a scripting command), but that just makes them fall like Kyle when he dies from a fall(stands normal while falling and dies as soon as he hits the ground).

Since Luke's invincible, I can make it so he jumps down into the hangar and fights a shadow trooper, which will be invincible during the fight so you don't kill it. At one point it will die. The 2 jedi will be in the side room.

Thank's for the feedback. I'll get right on it, but remember. It's in beta.

Kengo
03-24-2003, 08:04 PM
Some of the architecture in that shot is pretty nice, but the texturing in places, for example the roof needs some work, too repetitive.

One very common mistake I've noted in many first time SP levels is the difficult level say WAAAY too high, and generally too many enemies with poor placement. Try to remember that making something so hard that its almost impossible to beat doesn't make it fun, it just makes it frustrating. Also, enemies should be placed as realistically as possible....eg would you really have an army of reborn guarding a room of no obvious significance? Do they travel in groups of 30? Shadowtroopers are super elite, would 10 be in one place at the same time? I'm not leveling these criticisms specifically at your level, I'm just saying these are the kind of extremes I've seen in some first time SP maps, and they are a pain! Try to keep everything realistic and in reasonable amounts. Don't forget also that too many enemies at once will cause serious slowdown, and that drops the fun another couple of notches.

One last thing - sounds like you're including puzzles. Be VERY careful with these. They can be great, but they can be so hard to work out that they go beyong frustrating and onto another level of annoyance. Seriously, some people's minds work like a rubics cube, but not everyones!

These are just general points which may relate to your level, I don't claim to be an expert level editor (much....) but I have played a lot of awful SP levels for JK2 which all displayed these same flaws, all by first time level editors, if you avoid them then you're onto a good thing!

master_thomas
03-24-2003, 08:19 PM
Yeah, Kengo. That's one of the reasons I'm moving the breakable to the lift. I'm taking some enemies and moving them into the new rooms instead of making new ones. I'm also going to set some for different difficulties like some of the bacta and shields and enemies.

Boinga1, thanks for the comments, but please use the beta testing thread.

master_thomas
03-24-2003, 10:18 PM
Just a comment on the pictures. The dots on the right wall are valves. I originally tries to make a round one, but I scaled it down until the curves were 4 sided(weird) and it looks great! I'll try to get a closeup. It could go well as a very very small prefab.

Please, if you test #1, put your name and some feedback on the beta testing thread for the map. I will include as many as I can in the credits, but once I have 12, I'm taking that beta off my site. It takes up alot of my limited site storage space.

master_thomas
03-25-2003, 09:29 PM
No work done today:(. Too much school work. So many 7th grade projects at once (yes, I'm in seventh grade. I'm 13 and I'm probably one of the youngest people here). Many of my peers have never even heard of JK2 other than from me!!! Poor souls.

I went through several trials in my map and script and my camera angle still faces the wrong way. I'm trying to think of how to get this to work. I can't get the side room to look right. My NPC_kyle won't follow orders(won't walk, won't shoot at my command).

AAAAAHHHHHH. So, so, frustrating. I'm tired. I need a break from editing and school. 23 days for the latter:) and editing, well, not too stressful. I enjoy it.

I'll probably be done with the new version by the middle of April. I'll get a lot done during the "Spring Recess". I'll also be more efficient because I'll be well rested. Hopefully my sister will get off of work(she works for visions long island. She lives twenty miles away (big age gap. So big, sibling rivalry never built between us. Maybe for two years, but that's it.) and her office is half a mile from our house, so she works out of my parents/my house) and I'll have the computer to myself:).



__________________________________________________ __


Anyway, away from my complaining, I chose stairs. It is easier, then, to show the pipes going into other rooms.

master_thomas
03-27-2003, 07:26 AM
Yesterday I got the room to look right. I modified the cutscene after the breakable. There is a thin breakable panel outside the brush. When you blow it up and stand there, the cutscene starts. You stand there for a few seconds and an explosion breaks it and you fall into the hangar and see the battle. I also made the side room more similar o the original.

I do have a problem with opening the hangar door. The skybox outside that I put makes it look like it's floating in the sky. I'll need to make a small area with an invisible wall.

Kengo
03-27-2003, 08:17 AM
Hey the cutscene sounds v nice. Editing sure can be frustrating sometimes, especially when it degenerates into total trial and error, mostly with scripting stuff.

master_thomas
03-27-2003, 10:15 PM
I have a good battle cutscene between Luke and a powerful shadow trooper. It looks pretty cool, but I need to figure out two things. How to use the camera follow command and if I can enable and disable cutscenes in different scripts. I'll post these questions in the mapping forum and give a daily update post.

Almost finished :D. I just need to adjust a counter, fix a weird door problem, and finish the two cutscenes.

master_thomas
03-28-2003, 06:40 AM
The final cutscene looks similar to the one against desann, but better because it is longer and they aren't on a catwalk Aand slowly turn to the end amd jump off. Pure combat. I switched luke to invincible with the script and the shadowtrooper killed him :rolleyes:. Maybe I put the set command in the wrong affect.

Kengo
03-28-2003, 08:47 AM
Then beta testing? I'd be happy to be one of the testers if you want :)

master_thomas
03-28-2003, 08:10 PM
Kengo, did you dl the first beta?

I'm keeping the whole series in open beta to get more testers and my e-mail is terrible(only 2mb or less attachments)

The original, which has improve a lot only has one cutscene and too many reborn and not enough stormies, but the new version I'm working on adds two cutscenes including Luke's battle, homogenizes the enemies more, adds a room, and makes you open the hangar door.

I need a new sky shader. As I stated before, the current one makes it look like the base floats 20 feet above the ground. I cannot make textures/shaders at all.

If anyone knows of a skybox that matches what I need, please post it here with a link. You'll be shortening construction time and improving #1.

__________________________________________________ __

By the way, Kengo. You were right. A showcase thread is a great source of posts. I was at battle droid rank for three days. lol

master_thomas
03-28-2003, 09:00 PM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10478.jpg
See, this is what I want to fix. Kengo, what about the sky Leslie made/ is making for you for Occupance:Ground Assault?

Kengo, one thing. If you want to be mentioned in the credits (you already are for your tutorials, but not as a tester) Post your name and any feedback in the beta testing thread I started. No one has posted there yet.

About the feedback, please be specific in your posts(all of you). "I didn't like it" or "it was great" are not enough. I want to know what you liked and disliked so I can improve for the next version and implement things into the sequel(s).

master_thomas
03-28-2003, 09:05 PM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10202.jpg
How about this sky? Who made it? Can I use it?I can make a strip of pavement along the door and surround it with that.

Leslie Judge
03-29-2003, 05:27 AM
I made that, but it's just a temporary sky. I'm still working on it because I have a little problem with makeing perfectly aligned pics in Bryce at 1024x1024. Sometimes - mostly when I use test scenes which can be rendered in 5 mins - it seems to work. The same setting for the skybox scene not working well, and only two pics takes 3-4 hours to render. So it's a slow process to tune the settings.

Btw. With any skybox it will look like your base is floating in the air. You can't do anything. This is because the sky is drawn infinite far from the player's eyes.

master_thomas
03-29-2003, 10:35 AM
My plan is to try to use the left, right, and front skybox textures for the sides and the actual sky shader for the top. Similar to the way they were used in Kengo's picture. It may not look as good, but it seems my only choice. I don't want it to float 20 ft. in the air.

It seems weird, but the original skies don't perfectly align at the corners anyway. For example, the Yavin sky has some tree branches that suddenly stop at the corners.

wedge2211
03-29-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas
My plan is to try to use the left, right, and front skybox textures for the sides and the actual sky shader for the top.

Huh?

One way to get around the floating-in-the-air phenomenon might be to render a skybox with the camera close to the ground. Or, just extend the ground on your map beyond where the player can move.

master_thomas
03-29-2003, 01:57 PM
That's what I meant, but I need a way to make it so either the bottom of the sky brushes aren't visible or make it appear that I'm already at the bottom of the skybox, which can only be done with separate skybox pieces(left, front, right, top). I'll see what happens with the original and post that picture.


How long should the ending cutscene be? It's a fight between Luke and three shadowtroopers.

Kengo
03-29-2003, 08:11 PM
Ah of course, its open beta. Not sure if theres much point in testing v1 when v2 is practically done then?

As for the skybox stuff, I am a complete novice on skyboxes. Like the guys have said, you'll get these problems with any skybox. What I try to do with open areas is either have walls around the edge that you can't see over, or like Wedge said extend the ground beyond where you can walk.

Final cutscene? Very subjective, matter of preferance. I think people are willing to have the end cutscene the longest as they feel they've 'earned' it by getting to the end, if you want it to be. But it can be nice and short too, whatever you think fits. Just make sure it doesn't get dull, like some of mine!

master_thomas
03-29-2003, 09:45 PM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10490.jpg
The hangar from picture two is on the opposite end.
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10489.jpg
This was my decision. I used gensurf for the ridge and put the trees to make it look like the edge of the forest. The player can not exit through the door.

Basically I used one of the things that all mappers must do. Cheat the player into thinking what is not. There still is a 500 ft. drop to the ground, but the player can't see that.

The cutscene features a 30 second battle between 4 jedi, Luke, and 5 shadowtroopers. I may add kyle into the battle(npc with AI. I hope this works) If so, I'll add another shadow trooper if so to balance it out. The camera focuses on Luke for the entire battle.

After the battle, a flyby of the raven's claw and the xwings in the hangar.

The battle works fine, but I don't know how to properly move models, like the xwings and raven's claw, so the flyby still needs to be done. Expect the new beta a week after I figure this out.

The ones at Yavin are number one, which is in beta(available for download there).

Kengo, didn't you see this?

master_thomas
03-30-2003, 05:06 PM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10498.jpg

Lassev requested that the forcefield had emmiters. This is the bottom central one. There are corner ones on the top and bottom.

How do I move the entities through the hangar door? Last I checked, the search function was disabled. I will post this question in the mapping/levels forum when the forums speed up a little.

lassev
03-31-2003, 01:01 AM
For some reason, I cannot see that last picture. But I might have still one more suggestion to you. Make the hangar door / last cutscene such that when the battle is over, the player can go and open the doors. But instead of the player just not being (for some unexplained reason) able to go out, make that door opening launch the last cutscene, where Kyle would just walk to Raven's claw, and then fly out of the hangar.

You can make the entities func_static. That is, give them origin brush and a little bit of some other material, like caulk (nodraw might also work), and then put in the key model (or was it model2) to show also Raven's claw or what ever (don't forget clip brushes, if there's still some playing around in the hangar). (So, the func_static is in Radiant nothing but a little piece of origin and some other stuff, the model will only be seen in the game.)

Then just do like with elevators. Mark the path with ref_taqs... And voila! Of course you can also use func_trains, but as I have never used them, I won't say anything more about that. But the good thing is, or course, that they don't need to be solid, when they fly out in a cinematic.

master_thomas
03-31-2003, 10:28 PM
Thanks lassev :D While I waited I started a side project. My own house 'cause it's easy. Whenever I need reference shots, I just look around me ;).

You open the door, which is shown in a cutscene, which plays for a minute and a half and then it ends.

For the picture, you get a white square with a red x in the middle right? Happens to me alot and show picture never seems to do anything, but make the box disappear for a second. It appears for me.

Check the editor's corner at Massassi.

Kengo
04-01-2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas
For the picture, you get a white square with a red x in the middle right? Happens to me alot and show picture never seems to do anything, but make the box disappear for a second. It appears for me.

Check the editor's corner at Massassi.

Yeh I get that a lot too...possibly to do with Massassi having a lot of problems with its servers (I can only reach the site about a 1/4 of the times I try if that). The server has been recieving attacks of some kind or something. Bit of a pain...

master_thomas
04-01-2003, 05:19 PM
I know this first level is short, but I'm stuck because I'm basing it on yavin_temple.

Lassev, is that the same as the tutorial at massassi at the scripted elevator thing? I just set the parm's to the names of the ref_tag and move by getting that parm?

master_thomas
04-01-2003, 07:38 PM
I searched for the script that made the garbage hauler enter the bay. The method used there was different and seems less complicated so I'm using this one.

master_thomas
04-01-2003, 09:48 PM
I'm keeping "PARM" out of this. How can I do this? It's not working. My script looks just like their's(except replacing garbage_hauler and scow with claw). I must be missing something in the map. It's a func_static, the model looks fine, I have the ref_tags properly named and placed where I want it to go, what am I missing? I'm guessing that I need to change how the Raven's Claw is targeted.

Can someone please give me the step-by-step process or direct me to a tutorial for doing this? The script and the mapping instructions. Two waypoints(ref_tags). PLEASE!!!

lassev
04-02-2003, 01:24 AM
There must be tutorials of this particular issue somewhere, but it has been such a long time, that I truly cannot remember. You know, I've been doing this scripting thing for such a long time, that I never even read Kengo's tutorials, because they weren't written back then and Kengo hadn't even done his prison_escape...

Well, that's enough of nostalgia. The most important things to remember with func_static:

1.Give the func_static an origin brush, and make it the exact size of a ref_taq.
2. Give the func_static a script_targetname instead of a targetname.
3. Give the ref_taqs an ordinary targetname.

And last of all, have a look at the kejim_post map Raven gave out, or cairn_dock. They have elevators a plenty. Yet, most common errors are those three mentioned above, plus scripting errors (they are easy to fix, no map compiling).

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 06:46 AM
2. Give the func_static a script_targetname instead of a targetname.

OF COURSE!!! My lack of experience lead me not to have known of the script targetname.

Thank you!!! Now to try that.

Kengo
04-02-2003, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by lassev
You know, I've been doing this scripting thing for such a long time, that I never even read Kengo's tutorials, because they weren't written back then and Kengo hadn't even done his prison_escape...

Well, that's enough of nostalgia. The most important things to remember with func_static:


Ah nostalgia...back when we were young and carefree. Not having read my tutorials probabaly helps explain you high level of skill relating to scripting :D

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 06:59 AM
I am waiting for the compile and wanted to say that this method is nearly identical to the camera move command. (move( tag"claw" ORIGIN). The only difference is that this is in an "affect"

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 07:09 AM
Well, the Raven's claw moves. Not where I want it to, though. I'll check my script and ref_tags. Once those are finisished, I'll check for leaks, and then, I will update the credits and release beta build 2.

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 07:26 AM
Hey, I'm a Tusken now. (unenthusiastically)Yay.

The Claw moves but I got the time wrong, so another few seconds will work.

lassev
04-02-2003, 07:28 AM
Ah nostalgia...back when we were young and carefree. Not having read my tutorials probabaly helps explain you high level of skill relating to scripting

Well, I would say that only explains why my maps are still not finished. To learn everything by yourself certainly makes sure you actually learn something and not only copy, but on the other hand, and I'm quite sure you, Kengo, will agree with me that it takes too much time, too good nerves and a sturdy screen to survive all fist hits of frustration without splintering...

Your service to the community, Kengo, is great and you can be sure I'll mention your tutorials in the future as often as I've done so far. Even if I haven't read them, I know by other people's posts that they are great and helpful. (But I have visited your site, if that counts!).

Thomas, I'm looking forward to your beta2. With details and cinematics added, it will be a beginning to a great story.

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 07:51 AM
:D:D:D I accomplished two things in one compile. Kyle fights in the battle now. Also, the models move now, but I need to lower the final ref_tags because they move through the wall :rolleyes:.:D:D:D

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 07:51 PM
Well, the xwings move fine, but there is something strange about the Raven's Claw md3. The little box for the model that's used for centering is a foot too low:(. Is there a model without this problem? Expect build 2 soon. :)

master_thomas
04-02-2003, 09:17 PM
http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10548.jpg
http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10549.jpg
:) These I'm proud of. Kyle in my battle cutscene.
http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10547.jpg

Ooops. This, I'm not. This is three X-Wings and the Raven's Claw. I tilted them(too much) and forgot the remove command. This removal has two purposes. High speed and disposal.
From my caption at Massassi

Error reading rotation command because scripter has no idea what he is doing.

master_thomas
04-03-2003, 08:53 PM
I had quite a fright. For awhile, every time I tried to play the map, I got a "This program has generated and will be closed by windows" error and the game crashed.

I've cleared both problems (also the rotation mistake) up. Now, I need your opinion (Poll 2). I get sort of a pause (really just a slightly noticable deceleration to another acceleration) when they bank up.

I've added some rodians and gave them an elevated shooting cover thing. Nice added difficulty. Gravity influenced shots don't hit them, and they have the forward wall. Effective.

The supports inspired me to perhaps make some clone wars prefabs. Mainly, the giant moving turbo lasers that took down the core ships (HUGE spheres). Why prefabs? Because I can't model and they'll want accurate clip brushes anyway.

Poll: Type the poll number, the letter and answer in your posts please. 2 out of 3 (I'm not expecting many votes)
1. Should I release beta 2 now? I finished the cutscenes, added a room, the sniper tower, and the forcefield emitters. I've added stormies and removed some enemy jedi.

a. Yes

b. No

c. More pictures of each first.

d. Other (please specify and give number in consecutive order after d(for more votes)
Response as soon as I read three polls. Your vote will be granted if possible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poll2: Is the pause in flight okay? Looks like they're plotting course or the ships are going into "flight mode".

a.Yes

b. No

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poll3: How does the battle cutscene look?

a. good

b.great

c.nice

d.bad

e. Why are you asking me? I haven't seen it animated yet! :p

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, I just thought of another caption for the rotation mistake picture.

"Houston, he have partial lift off."

It actually would sort of remind me sort of like the Space Shuttle in silouette (is this correct spelling?) before liftoff. The Raven's Claw's thrusters as the outer thrusters. And that it looks like (but isn't) it's sticking straight up.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Longest post yet! 2210 characters without this end comment and 2378 with it!

lassev
04-04-2003, 12:14 AM
1. b (No)
2. b (No)
3. e (dunno)

1. Maybe you should not release any betas, at least of the first map, anymore. Betas can be funny, and the feedback informative to you, but I would rather play the finished product, to speak the truth.

2. Why don't they plan the route before lift off? That would seem a proper thing to do. If you are encountering difficulties with func_statics, you might consider replacing DOWAITs with DOs and careful timing with wait(milliseconds). And remember you can put both moves and rotates in the same task, to be executed at the same time. I must confess I'm not entirely done or satisfied with my own ship movements, but I'm going to have a look at them at some point.

master_thomas
04-04-2003, 06:47 AM
Okay. Lassev. Thanks for the input. Poll count so far:

Poll1

a.0

b.1

c.0.

Poll2

a.0

b.1

Poll3

a.0

b.0

c.0

d.0

e.1

Kengo
04-04-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by lassev
Well, I would say that only explains why my maps are still not finished. To learn everything by yourself certainly makes sure you actually learn something and not only copy, but on the other hand, and I'm quite sure you, Kengo, will agree with me that it takes too much time, too good nerves and a sturdy screen to survive all fist hits of frustration without splintering...

Your service to the community, Kengo, is great and you can be sure I'll mention your tutorials in the future as often as I've done so far. Even if I haven't read them, I know by other people's posts that they are great and helpful. (But I have visited your site, if that counts!).


Couldn't agree more Lassev, having to try everything over and over until it eventually starts working is very frustrating, especially when you don't know what you're doing wrong! You are too kind :)

The cutscene work sounds very impressive, but from the screenshots (I admit I'm basing this on only seeing certain bits, and I'm sure you've added more since) I think the architecture maybe needs some work. It's getting good, but I think if you went through it all and just added a load more details it would make a big difference.

The beta question is interesting...I have been very annoyed at not releasing a beta and having mistakes I should have noticed in my maps before. On the other hand, you gotta release it at some stage, and too many betas is probabaly not a good idea. I would suggest no more than one more beta. Also, if you haven't added a great deal to the map since the last beta, I don't see a reason for there to be another - yet at least. So it's a matter of asking yourself:

Do I think the map is good enough to release as it is?

> If so I would say decide whether you need another beta or not based upon the amount of changes made from the last beta

> If not then I would recommend working on the map some more until you feel it is good enough to release, then again decide whether you think you need another beta.

Whatever you do though, make sure you release it, it's your first SP map and will have faults, which is only to be expected, but the feedback you get after you release a map is extremely worthwhile, so don't put releasing it off indefinately :)

I'm just gonna lie down again.....

master_thomas
04-04-2003, 04:04 PM
Well, I have added a lot. My brush count has gone into 1100's, I've added two cutscenes, added the towers and sniping post, a new room, forcefield emmiters; many things. One more beta because I'm unsure of some of it. I plan this to be a big series and want it to start out right.

Also, I want to start another map (yes three projects at once). SW museum! Artifacts from ep. 1, pre 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, post 6, and the Clone Wars. None of these will be models (I can't model). Really just practice, but seems like a good idea.

One more beta. If I don't get any more feedback or only positive feedback, out it goes to jk2files, jediknightii.net, and massassi. I might as well, because I still need to improve my e-mail (only 2mb attachments or less).

I want to make this good. Mainly because it's short. As I said before, I'm trying to keep it accurate to yavin_temple, which is pretty small. I don't want people to feel that the final cutscene is a gimick to keep it from mediocrity.

Warning: The rest of this is off topic.

I'm thinking of adding a new page to my site. Cosmology (study of the universe in it's past, future, and evolution). Yes, I'm one of the few thirteen year-olds interested in that, but, hey, gotta pick a career.

New forum. Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. :D


We all perform opublic service within JK2. We prvide hundreds and more with entertainment for free, though, we enjoy it.

master_thomas
04-04-2003, 08:51 PM
This picture is compressed and was taken n nolight compile. Here it is.
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10584.jpg

A hailfire missile droid (missile launching(duh) Separatist vehicle from the Clone Wars. One of these fired one of the first shots of the war. They were very effective against fighter tanks and AT-XT's (original AT-ST; Republic), which were the main part of the Republic mobile army.

This will also be in the SW museum.

Took me one hour. It has almost complete accuracy to the movie (except texture).

I'm going to enter these into the storyline. Sidious kept many vehicles of the Clone Wars for his emergency division of ground troops, but when the first Death Star was destroyed, their location was lost, but they've been found. The imperials get some new (old) toys :evil1:.

master_thomas
04-04-2003, 10:06 PM
GAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

DOOR PROBLEMS!!! The beginning door and a new door won't open anymore! :(

WHY NOW??? I HAVEN'T TOUCHED THEM!

<pounds table repeatedly and eventually calms down>

When they are fixed, Beta2 will be released. After three days, the final will be released unless more feedback is given. Once I can send 16Mb attachments, it will be on JK2.net and massassi.

master_thomas
04-07-2003, 09:45 PM
Beta Build 2 is out:). I added lassev and boinga1 to the credits and removed Roger Koche(his little brother got mad at himbecause he took all the PS2 games to a friends house and broke the disc and now he can't play:(. Too bad). Check it out at http://www.thomasjk2.moonfruit.com

master_thomas
04-07-2003, 09:55 PM
Okay, I sent it to massassi, using my sister's e-mail (I still haven't got my e-mail updated). I feel so guilty:(. Who knows when it will come out?

master_thomas
04-08-2003, 07:39 AM
Still not out at massassi (although, I'm not at all surprised)

master_thomas
04-08-2003, 04:59 PM
I just got the computer from my sister. I just checked and Massassi still hasn't been updated. Should I try JK2files? Anyway, has anyone here downloaded it from my site (http://www.thomasjk2.moonfruit.com)?

master_thomas
04-08-2003, 08:36 PM
Work has resumed on part2. While there, I just had to do this with some new droids, which I just placed. :evil2:http://massassi.net/ec/images/10651.jpg
(the r2d2 should be imperial, but I killed it while pushing it into place (don't ask) so I NPC spawned a normal one)5...4...3...2...1...0
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10652.jpg
Mwahahahahahahahahaha <takes deep breath> hahahahahahahaha!!!<gasps for air>

How do you get them to move around?

If the pictures don't appear for you, it's three gonks and an r2d2 standing over 1 detpack per droid. The second shows the sxplosions and the droids are nowhere to be seen.

master_thomas
04-08-2003, 10:00 PM
I see I am the only one posting here right now. Maybe an update will cause more interest. I made the pipes more logical. They now lead up to the upper rooms and spread in all directions (except towards the window).

lassev
04-09-2003, 01:56 AM
How do you get them to move around?

Well, it should work just by constructing a network of waypoints and after that setting the droids in their spawnscript to a suitable behavior_state (it was bs_wander, or something like that, if I remember correctly). Bah, I don't even remember if I have tried that out. There's definitively something wrong with my brains...

master_thomas
04-09-2003, 07:18 AM
Waypoints? Navgoals or normal. What about point_combats?

lassev
04-09-2003, 08:42 AM
Just normal waypoints. Point_combats might be useless as they are only used in battles and the droids are not known for their high prowess in battle. I guess they don't even have any combat AI. Waypoint_navgoals are just for scripting, as far as I know. The behavior_state should do the trick, if it going to do work. Well, of course you could also give them navgoals, they would certainly move that way also. But it would be a harder work if your aim is just pretty aimless movement.

master_thomas
04-09-2003, 09:43 PM
<groan>

Lassev, I tried to fixyour fps problems with hint brushes, which I still don't understand. Now, after adding three, which I then added I get
"Error: Sv_SetBrushModel: NULL"

I ran a brush cleanup, checked my func's. It's now exactly the same as it was before it started occuring. Why must my ****ing computer/programs do this to me? I never did anything bad to them. <kicks the CPU:p> I'll post this in AKPiggot's thread.

lassev
04-10-2003, 01:19 AM
Hint brushes are rather tricky, I admit. The theory is sound, especially if you should listen to it at some class room, and you could just forget it afterwards. In practice is can work as good as it is supposed, if used in basic situations. However, when architecture is not as basic as it can get, you'll just have to try it out. Sometimes it does miracles, sometimes nothing changes.

Areaportals, on the other hand, are very easy to use. If you make elevators with func_static, you can also use areaportals with that, but your script must include the command adjust areaportals, otherwise you'll get the good old hall'o'mirrors (HOM) effect.

What comes to your NULL brushes, there I cannot help you. I got them with funcs containing nothing but origin, but never else.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 07:17 AM
How bad was your fps problem? Mine kept decent (if course my systems in the middle upper end and yours will probably be lower). Area portal with func_door, work, but how again do I place areaportal brushes? I'll check Rich's tutorial on func_doors for that as soon as I get this stupid error gone. I'll do a region compile without entities and see if it works.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 07:56 AM
It worked, so now I'm removing the func_entities one by one. I have to leave in one minute and probably won't post in 13 hours from now.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 06:38 PM
Well, I think I've narrowed the culprit down to the func_statics (I'm not too surprised). I've saved under a new map file and deleted the doors, and the breakables, leaving thr statics. I'm about to check the junk.txt file.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 07:03 PM
Why didn't I look at the junk file before?:o

Ahem. I think I found the problem (I know what this means, don't diagnose)--- MakeTreePortals ---
--- MakeTreePortals ---
WARNING: node without a volume
node has 0 tiny portals
node reference point 0.00 0.00 0.00
WARNING: node without a volume
node has 0 tiny portals
node reference point 0.00 0.00 0.00
WARNING: node without a volume
node has 0 tiny portals
node reference point 0.00 0.00 0.00
WARNING: node without a volume
node has 0 tiny portals
node reference point 0.00 0.00 0.00
WARNING: node without a volume
node has 0 tiny portals
node reference point 0.00 0.00 0.00
229 tiny portals
0 bad portals

Speaks for itelf. I have nodes that are too small. All at 0.00 0.00 0.00? Now That's odd. I'm worried. Oh well, I'll look for those extremely small nodes. I had this error earlier. Always comes in groups of tiny portals :rolleyes:.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 07:05 PM
Were 0.00 0.00 0.00 the coordinates? Nothing there. Dang it!

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 07:19 PM
I've checked the rest of the junk.txt file. More warnings
WARNING: misc_model at -6328 3008 1152 without a model key That sort of sounds like the locations of the func_statics, which are all models.WARNING: Degenerate T-junction edge found, fixing... 1471 verts added for tjunctions 1471? That seems rather high.

I think the misc_model sounds right. What's a T-junction?

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 07:55 PM
Okay I've deleted every misc_model and func_static. I'm almost certain it's either the T-juntion or the node with no volume problem. The only challenge with the node with no volume problem (wow, matches line to line for six words. Freaky lol) is that the coordinates are either incorrect, the numbers there are not coordinates, but are the size, or the whole dang system is screwed up.

I'm now a Wampa. Isn't that the snow beast that almost kills Luke at Hoth?

Kengo, you were right! The showcase thread is a goldmine of posts :D.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 09:27 PM
I deleted all func_breakables. Getting closer.

So far, there are no misc_models, func_statics, and func_doors. I am certain it's an entity because when I deleted all entities, the error disappeared, but my skyboxes all became skyboxes with notex on the extremely far walls.

master_thomas
04-10-2003, 09:40 PM
Woohoo! I fixed the error! It was one of the func_doors (either the hangar door or the one leading out of Luke's room.

lassev
04-11-2003, 01:45 AM
Anything left of your map after all that deleting? Well, it's a good thing you did find the culprit. All the time spent looking for some stupid error is always time away from actual mapping. That's a pity.

You should probably use areaportaling, even if your FPS keeps tolerable, just because it's a good practice. And also it makes battles more fluent, especially if you have lot of enemies.

The most important thing to remember with areaportals is to make sure there's no other way around the areaportaled door, like windows or open corridors, or just plain detail brushes. I haven't myself followed that 1 unit thick rule. I have just made sure the portal is no thicker than the door, and is somewhat thin. They have worked so far, although I do have some portals, that do not work, but I can guess why. Correcting them would mean too much work with the surrounding architecture.

master_thomas
04-11-2003, 06:50 AM
When I do find the exact door, I will continue trying to increase fps. The low fps would be because everything is one node, meaning everything is drawn at once. If an entire area is blocked off by structural brushes (and an areaportal or hint), the node is divided in two. Since a room surrounded by walls of structural brushes only with no gaps, which would break up the nodes, can only be penatrated by the teleporter. That is why we have those two shaders.

If I separate the nodes between Luke's room and the hangar, I can't see the hangar with r_showtris 1 from Luke's Room, correct?

master_thomas
04-11-2003, 06:58 AM
Here's a new question, Why areaportal and not hint? What's the difference?

master_thomas
04-11-2003, 07:09 AM
I found the door that has caused me these problems! It was the hangar door and I wouldn't be surprised if it was too thin.

lassev
04-11-2003, 07:17 AM
If I separate the nodes between Luke's room and the hangar, I can't see the hangar with r_showtris 1 from Luke's Room, correct?
True.

Why areaportal and not hint? What's the difference?
Use areaportals only with doors or other entities like func_statics (this with a script command, as I said earlier). They are used for that, to split nodes with funcs. Don't use areaportals just by themselves in the middle of corridors, or you'll get the areaportal does not touch two areas error message.

Use hint brushes all by themselves in corridor cornes. They don't need any funcs or anything to be inside of. Raven used in Kejím_post hint brushes in the middle of straight corridors like some invisible walls. They probably don't have any effect when used like that. So don't use Kejim_post as an example.

master_thomas
04-11-2003, 03:38 PM
Sorry I didn't post about it yet, I had to leave for school 10 minutes after my last post. The areaportals are working! Lassev, I don't get it. If the hint brushes in those corridors had no purpose, why use them?

Here's a question for my fellow SP mappers. Why haven't I seen any movies used in player-made maps? (except, of course, the DF mod demo. They had to use them for game accuracy)

master_thomas
04-11-2003, 07:35 PM
New questions. This is, as you can see, an extremely long post.

Why not just always use hints? They could have ommited an entire shader.

If the areaportal/hint brush divides the nodes, meaning things in other nodes aren't drawn, how does the door work? As a guess, this is what the vis process handles, right?

Why must my (and many other people's) maps start having all these errors at the end, when it is almost ridiculous to start over again? I understand AKPiggot's g_stringconfig error (frustrating error caused by too many sound lines and entities), but why does the culprit, which has been the same for three weeks wait to start a problem when I'm doing he final fps optimization?

How do I get an fps display in SP? What is the console command?
I really can't tell if it's improving.

What are the exact placement specifications for area portals? (I know it can't be deeper than the door, but what about height and width? It would make sense if it touches the walls of the doorway, but isn't visible in radiant when the door is in the closed position.

Is Massassi ever going to post the new levels? (it's down now) It's been awhile

Why do companies bother with pop-ups if everyone hates them? I had a 4000 character post, explaining my future plans and some assets I'll need, but a pop-up caused my browser to crash before I could submit it.

Now, to post that 4000 character post (brace yourself lol).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will use these dashes to separate major parts. Double layered lines will be major breaks (I must organize this, since it's about four-thousand characters).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Plans

WARNING: Spoilers, though they may change over time.

Okay, I'm planning for a non-linear layout. Kyle does not find Jan at Bespin. The cry for help in #2 will be followed by a reborn cackle. After defeating a powerful dark jedi, Kyle returns to Yavin, where the imperials have been completely removed.

Kyle feels very angry and frustrated and Luke suggests him to rest, starting level 3. In a dream world (new music and textures needed), you fight reborn and you see non-solid Jan models throughout (is search for Jan is constantly failing and whenever he gets close, hhe can't get her). You see a dark Kyle, who you must fight. If you win, you wake up and find Jan eventually after defeating the dark Jedi's master.

If you lose, a cutscene will play and Kyle wakes up (scripted set playerteam enemy). You help the imperials conquer the Jedi Academy. Luke and Jan are nowhere in sight. Eventually, Jan and Luke are captured and the Sith lord tells you to kill them, but you refuse and musst battle him. You kill him, and fight the imperials away.

The darkside and lightside levels will be distributed separately (the capture of the Academy is part of the dream level and the aftermath is next. I must trust the player to play the right one (or give him/her the freedom to play both).

Reminds me of the descriptions (I've never played it) of JK1(only there are two possibilities, not a gradual decent to the darkside).

Even though have non-linear plans, several details make it so it doesn't interfere with (a) sequel(s).

1. The New Republic and the Imperial remnant will remain intact.

2. Kyle will end up on the Republic's side in the end.

3. Jan, Luke, and Kyle will not get killed at all.

4. The Raven's Claw will not get destroyed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Required Assets

Okay, I need many assets. Textures, shaders (fog, skies, liquids, etc.) sounds (mainly voice), models, skins, possibly CGI movies (though I certainly doubt it), menu objects (picture (I'm really not that good at making them), and maybe music. Suppliers will be thanked, mentioned in the credits, the level decriptions, readmes and possibly a cool effect I may do with shadows.

Note: If you give voice files, please edit them with goldwave.

These assets will be requested as I need them. Just a heads up.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, what do you think? As you can see, I have many, many, plans for this series. Kengo, and you thought I was ambitious before lol.

More questions (I just thought of these now):

Lassev, can you tell me two things?

One, what is your average fps, and two, what script is missing?

Has anyone other than Lassev, downloaded the level?

Okay, 4937 characters. My new record! :D

master_thomas
04-12-2003, 12:00 PM
Massassi is still down:(.

I've learned that Areaportals should be as tall and wide as the doors, but not as deep (as I suspected).

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 01:06 AM
Still having problems, probably from leaks (because of these, the nodes are rejoined at different areas via the void and so everything is still one node. I shall now tell you a tale of how this map has shaped me from an arrogant fool, who seriously underestimated the carnage of a simple leak.

As I mapped, the new forms of gtkradiant cam out. They had working bsp monitoring, but I payed them now mind. This was my first work after JK2radiant, which automatically displays the pointfile and I thought gtk did too, so when it didn't appear, I thought I had no leaks. I was seriously mistaken.

I downloaded the updates of gtk and eventually enabled bsp monitoring. After 20 compiles, ending abruptly with the map debugger stating the map is leaked, I gave up trying to fix them. I was foolish to do so.

As I type, now, I am removing the hundreds of leaks, (it's that bad) and am not going to stop until they're all gone. Now I respect the awesome power and destruction of a leak.

True story. What do you think? Do not pity me because I deserve this. Do not ridicule me because I am redeem-<excuses self to fix, yet, another leak> -ing myself right now.

lassev
04-13-2003, 11:00 AM
If the hint brushes in those corridors had no purpose, why use them?
Well, in theory they shouldn't have such an effect as intended (not that I would pretend to know what Raven had in mind). On the other hand, this is not my original idea, far from it, I just respread some wisdom I read once here in the forums. But as soon as you read some quality hint brush tutorial, you'll see it yourself.

One, what is your average fps, and two, what script is missing?
My average? Well, I quess it must be somewhere around 70 to 80. There's only one place in my maps, where FPS is a problem. It's a perfectly areaportaled hangar that has quite a bunch of STs and officers. FPS goes down to ~25 until you start thinning them out. The empty hangar has again around 75 fps. Needless to say, I was cautious when adding extra detail to that hangar (no mirror floors...).

I can't remember the script name. It was the script that should launch when you break the elevator. When I broke it, I just got some very peculiar texture in the place where the elev was, but nothing happened and I couldn't go on to the hangar area. The consol just stated that script missing error.

"cg_drawFPS 1" will draw the FPS.

area portals?... but isn't visible in radiant when the door is in the closed position.
Set the entities not to be shown, and you can see the area portal without the door disturbing (ctrl+shift+N, if I remember correctly).

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 12:17 PM
Wahooooooo!!! I got every last leak! ( For full witness of my joy, imagine the climax of the 1812 overture in the background)
:) :D :comp9: :roll1: :whtsmile: :spin: :joy:

Yeah, I have fps problems there too. I deleted all the non-func_static xwings and three ties (were they in beta2?). How do I areaportal the breakable? Is it done identically to the door?

Also, Lassev, you never answered whether a hint could be used in the place of an areaportal (I know the other way around doesn't work)

Anyway, I'm getting something weird. When I use r_showtris 1, the hangar is drawn (bad), but the pillar part of the columns (not the bottom cap) is not drawn.

lassev
04-13-2003, 12:55 PM
whether a hint could be used in the place of an areaportal (I know the other way around doesn't work)
Come on, why would you use hint brush where you can use areaportal? With areaportals you never have problems you couldn't trace to some sensible source. With hint brushes you never have even such a success that you could just copy it to some other place and still get it work. Hint brushes are only used, when there's no solid obstacle (be it an areaportaled door or just a stuctural wall) to separate too areas. However, you must have a non-linear connection between the rooms, preferably a corridor with either two 90 angles bends or one corner if the confronting, partial corridors are long enough, or a T-junction or something like that.

How do I areaportal the breakable? Is it done identically to the door?
Never tried that, but you might just put in the areaportal and then target the breakable to a scriptrunner with a script containing the adjust_areaportals command (or what ever, I don't remember anymore) plus those commands that are otherwise included in the script you forgot to include to the beta2.

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 02:37 PM
The leaks were the problem (I think). Now, the nodes are divided and the fps is back up to a decent level. I just nead to delete some stormies.

About the hint instead of areaportals, lassev, I was just curious.

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 03:08 PM
Okay, new plans for attackonyavin2. Through the windows, I decided you should be able to see some tibanna gas platforms (as seen in Rogue Squadron 2:Rogue Leader). I'm working on them now.

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 05:01 PM
Ummm, lassev? I have divided every room and my fps in the full hangar is still 5 (although it seems to run fine at 15, so I don't know if my fps counter is working properly).

It is drawing 40,000 tris as I entered. No good. I'm going for 18,000 (lots of deletions), which is said in Rich's unseen tutorial (yeah, it hasn't been uploaded on the site, so the links don't work, but here it is. Two tutorials from 230 exist so far. Darth Berserker found the URL).

Here it is :) (http://richdiesal.jedioutcastmaps.com/tutorials/ld230lsn1.html) Hit next lesson and there is one on hints, though it doesn't look complete. The rest don't exist yet.

Leslie Judge
04-13-2003, 06:06 PM
Here is a very good explanation:
http://www.nibsworld.com/rtcw/tutorial_detail_and_hint_brushes_part1.shtml

The 2nd part is about hint brushes but good to read the 1st too.

master_thomas
04-13-2003, 09:10 PM
I've got good news and bad news. I got the fps good even when all the NPCs are there. Bad news is, the hangar seems too empty now. Any suggestions that will allow me to keep a good fps with good room detail? (it is a large room with 5 Xwings, 1 tie, 2 stormies, 2 rebels, 4 jedi, and 4 reborn.)

wedge2211
04-13-2003, 11:37 PM
Unfortunately, you don't have a lot of flexibility optimizing large areas. Maybe JA will do better at that, we can only hope. I ran into this sort of problem on City of the Ancients, which was essentially one big area. Not much you can do but try to split it up as much as you can, and then when you can't, make sure anything in there that isn't a necessary wall is detail, there aren't lots of random effects, and cross your fingers.

lassev
04-14-2003, 01:59 AM
Have you blocked the previous room from the hangar not to be drawn. It is this connection where you have that func_breakable, I believe? If that hole between the hangar and the previous room with the lift you have to break is not blocked, it will most certainly rob you a good deal of fps. Also, you could make some, let's say 6 or 8-sided columns instead of cylinders, to save a couple of fps and to fill the space. And make sure your little outdoor area behind the big hangar doors is not drawn, when the fighting commences.

Yet, in the end, it is undoubtly due to the large amount of saber wielders. I have no doubt they reserve a good deal of computing power with their "advanced" AI. Even simple STs do have their effect as my own map has proved time after time to me (or maybe it is just the drawing of the complicated human models, who knows...).

master_thomas
04-14-2003, 07:00 AM
Yet, in the end, it is undoubtly due to the large amount of saber wielders

That will do it. I can take out 2 jedi and 2 reborn and put 4 stormies and 4 rebels (to take up more space)

Then, I will delete the tie and an X wing. Models are always a large number of usually unnecessary triangles.

The little outside area could be a problem with the tree models and the gtkgensurf-made ridges. Maybe that's not being blocked off, causing a problem (I hope).

I'll look for my highest triangle count and use that to judge what I can add, keep, or what I must drop.

lassev
04-14-2003, 09:17 AM
Some people have noted that static .md3 models do not stress the engine as much as one would think otherwise. However, I cannot really say, if that's true or not.

This thread is certainly a good way to gain posts and points. I'm not anymore a pesky Ewok. Still, I have a long way to go to get a glowing name. Perhaps I should also post a few new screenshots. Some day. MOO3 and Freelancer have had a most disturbing effect on my mapping efficiency. But after all, I have only one room to map anymore. Then some cinematics scripting, some sound effects and voila! And voice acting by some gracious person...

wedge2211
04-14-2003, 09:27 AM
Have you used r_showtris 1? It will reveal any area that the engine is drawing. Usually, if you have low FPS, you either have an uber-detailed map or the engine is going to its knees drawing unseen areas, like if you had forgotten an areaportal or something.

Kengo
04-14-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by lassev
This thread is certainly a good way to gain posts and points. I'm not anymore a pesky Ewok. Still, I have a long way to go to get a glowing name. Perhaps I should also post a few new screenshots. Some day. MOO3 and Freelancer have had a most disturbing effect on my mapping efficiency. But after all, I have only one room to map anymore. Then some cinematics scripting, some sound effects and voila! And voice acting by some gracious person...

Looks like you only need a few more points, you want me to donate the remaining number you need to reach 300? I'd really love to see your finished project as well as this topic's one! I can get ya in contact with a few good voice actors who worked on Ocupation if you want, I'm sure they'd be happy of some more work :)

master_thomas
04-14-2003, 03:41 PM
Sorry, Kengo, I already donated to Lassev (gotta give thanks to Lassev for helping to teach me how to use areaportals and hint brushes). Lassev, let this attractive glow, uhhhhh, well, be attractive. Pick the color wisely.

Wedge, I have been using r_showtris 1 and every room is separate from every other room. The fps is okay now, but I need to add detail because in the process, I deleted many X wings. I'll just put lots of debris on the ground (if 12 triangles per rectangular brush, this should work out nicely).

Edit: Ooops, I forgot to mention: Massassi is up again, but still hasn't been updated :(.

master_thomas
04-14-2003, 09:10 PM
Sorry, but I didn't do any work. I got a demo version of JK1 working (like I've said, I've never played it before) and it is great :D.

The cutscene is "broken" (that's the name, it is not literally broken). I don't know why that script is missing. I put the whiole folder in and it works for me. All you're missing is an overhead view of Kyle with sparks flying everywhere. It breaks and Kyle falls. Are there anymore scripts missing? The weird texture is supposed to be a cross-section view of the elevator (really an super-enlarged, damaged, switch texture).

Back to the recent fps problems, they were caused by the agoraphobia of the Quake 3 engine and boosted by details, which were made of structural brushes.

The debris isn't turning out as I planned :(. Any ideas for brush-made details (no models, too many triangles)?

100th post in this thread!!!

lassev
04-15-2003, 01:29 AM
Master_thomas, thank you very much. I'm deeply grateful. When I first visited these forums all those months and months ago, I though I would never go any further than bantha fodder. I just had one question about how to make two grans fight each other. Well, a lot has happened since then. When I release my map some day, you'll understand the choise of color.

Have you updated the beta2 package with the fps correction and (possibly) with the missing script? I would certainly want to see it all the way to the end, because last time it was halted due to the missing script.

You can actually make with just a few brushes quite tolerable looking computer terminals and such, if you just pick the textures wisely. Just clip some corners and make angled surfaces. Then you can connect the new low triangle decoration with a cable to some X-wing, if you want.

Maybe I could already tomorrow post some screenshots. Who knows? I haven't compiled the second map of the campaign for ages. It might give some nasty error. They seem to abound lately...

lassev
04-15-2003, 05:55 AM
Looks like you only need a few more points, you want me to donate the remaining number you need to reach 300? I'd really love to see your finished project as well as this topic's one! I can get ya in contact with a few good voice actors who worked on Ocupation if you want, I'm sure they'd be happy of some more work
Thanks, Kengo, for thinking me and my points, even if thomas beat you... I would truly be interested in getting in contact with one of your voice actors (although I don't know yet which one. I guess I might extract the sound files of Occupation and choose the most suitable). Months ago one mapper already was interested, but he has not been around here for quite some time, so I doubt he would do it anymore. I only need one male voice for pretty long conversation. I think I could give the description, when I'll put up my own thread.

master_thomas
04-15-2003, 07:03 AM
Well, I found why Massassi hasn't updated. Any mail from the 11th to 14th, was lost. They're having serious problems, but this is actually good for my map. I can now send a map with the script inside and with the better fps.

Your welcome, Lassev. It's always nice to see a glowing username.

sematriclen
04-15-2003, 08:09 AM
like some1 else said the architecture is too simple u need more archways to make it look more like an eligant place being the jedi training area and all its no kejim.........

master_thomas
04-15-2003, 03:53 PM
The problem with that is that I'm trying to make it as close to Yavin_temple as possible, except for details in the hangar, which was damaged alot inthe previous battle and was rebuilt.

Okay, I drew up some plans for the rest of The Attack On Yavin 2, and I like them. It has three paths leading to and from each room.

I'm just about to get to work on hangar details, but I need ideas. Maybe some force-influenced objects (containers, etc.). Few people incorporate those.

I've been slacking recently. Mainly playing demos, so I can make educated requests for my birthday (4/27):bday2:.

Really enjoying the JK demo. I also tried the Phantom Menace, but it has poor graphics and combat, so that's a no.

master_thomas
04-16-2003, 07:49 AM
Well, in 6.5 hours, my 11 day Spring Break will start. :D. Lots of free time.

I've been having trouble with the walls of that new section. I did an entire level worth of complex floors and ceilings in 20 minutes, but the walls are hard to keep track of. I'll try hiding every completed room, but then, I might wall of hallway and confuse myself.

Well, I gotta go in 8 minutes.

Louis
04-16-2003, 11:10 AM
I downloaded the Attack on Yavin 1 from your site (I assume thats still beta or is it finished?)...look on beta thread for my comments.

master_thomas
04-16-2003, 06:45 PM
Louis, I already replied there, but the missing script was discussed here.

Spring Break! I'm going to try to get the microphone tomorrow so I can make my own sound files. I may need voice actors, but I'll see how I fare with goldwave.

How can I get a picture of the 3d or 2d view (not ingame. Otherwise I get a HOM effect, which blocks out the level. I want a z-axis view of what I've added so I can get opinions on whether this is non-linear to the point where the player may get lost or if there aere just too many hallways and not enough rooms, or vice-versa.

Business_Eskimo
04-17-2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas
No work done today:(. Too much school work. So many 7th grade projects at once (yes, I'm in seventh grade. I turned thirteen recently (relatively recently. A month or so)...

8th grade here, im 13 too :) I'm on spring break too :D If there's anything i can do to help, let me know! :)

lassev
04-17-2003, 01:42 AM
How can I get a picture of the 3d or 2d view (not ingame.
So, do you mean in Radiant? Try out screen capture. I have always used Paint Shop Pro for that (although not with Radiant, but it should work), but if you don't own it, I'm sure there must be a lot of free programs. Who knows, maybe Radiant has such a function itself, have you checked?

Other question: how can you take a screenshot of your custom game menu? If I remember correctly, there is some console command that will let you take a picture without the console being included in the picture, or is there?. The key bindings don't work in the menu, and I haven't yet figured out how to circumvent this problem.

The Truthful Liar
04-17-2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by lassev
So, do you mean in Radiant? Try out screen capture. I have always used Paint Shop Pro for that (although not with Radiant, but it should work), but if you don't own it, I'm sure there must be a lot of free programs. Who knows, maybe Radiant has such a function itself, have you checked?

Other question: how can you take a screenshot of your custom game menu? If I remember correctly, there is some console command that will let you take a picture without the console being included in the picture, or is there?. The key bindings don't work in the menu, and I haven't yet figured out how to circumvent this problem.

Use your own advice. Print screen is your friend. ; )

wedge2211
04-17-2003, 10:33 AM
Look for the button marked "Print Screen" or "Prnt Scrn" or somesuch on the keyboard, pressing that copies the current screen to the clipboard. Then go into any image editor and hit Ctrl+V.

Unless you have a Mac, in which case may the gods of computers have mercy on your soul.

master_thomas
04-17-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by wedge2211
Look for the button marked "Print Screen" or "Prnt Scrn" or somesuch on the keyboard, pressing that copies the current screen to the clipboard. Then go into any image editor and hit Ctrl+V.

Unless you have a Mac, in which case may the gods of computers have mercy on your soul.

No mercy needed. I have windows 2000 :).

Ahhh, so that's how you use print screen. I'm such a noob at some things lol. Oh well, one thing learned. I'm farther from such a title than 5 minutes before.

I just learned my sister has a microphone, but at her own house. Not mine. I'll be seeing her over the weekend for holiday.

master_thomas
04-17-2003, 07:56 PM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10698.jpg

How's this for non-linear design? The floors and ceiling took ten minutes, but I'm still doing the walls.

Business_Eskimo
04-17-2003, 08:42 PM
wow. very non-linear. :)

Business_Eskimo
04-17-2003, 09:53 PM
Allright, I just got finished with testing the map. First, I think that the menu, while it is great that you made a menu for the game, is blurry and I can't read anything on it. Second, the movie of Kyle going to the planet in his ship is pretty cool. I think that the cutscene at the beginning could be a bit more descriptive, as until I read the readme file I just thought there was an irritating red glow in the room. Perhaps showing the camera from farther away might help. When the cutscene finished, I moved toward the stormtroopers and reborn. Much to my suprise, stormtroopers began spawning on top of me at random! Confused, I turned on noclip and floated into the corridor beyond the room. Upon turning it off, more stormtroopers mysteriously appeared on top of me! Kyle began to switch between being visible and invisible. Several seconds later, the func_door by the room you start in, and the func_plat beyond began to do the same. I hit escape and closed the program.

These problems seem very strange to me and I have no clue as to why they are occuring.





Oh, master thomas, if you need help with custom textures, I can help.

master_thomas
04-18-2003, 10:37 AM
That is a weird problem that I have not encountered.

I tried lots of times to get the menu easier to read.

Kengo
04-18-2003, 10:42 AM
I have had this problem before. Basically it comes from having too many entities, particulalry NPCs and md3 models in the level at once. It isn't like FPS...it doesn't matter if you can see them or not, its just them being in the level. In Occupation I wanted to set up stormtroopers all over the level, but I couldn't because it was too many at once and I had to grade it so you go one place, stomries appear, you kill them (then they dissapear) and you fight more etc. I also got rid of a lot of md3 models I didn't need (to this day I don't like using them anymore, I'd rather have more NPCs!). I imagine this is your problem, try to avoid having too many npcs in the level at once, and avoid having more md3s than you need.

lassev
04-18-2003, 12:05 PM
in which case may the gods of computers have mercy on your soul

I'm using WinXP, but may the gods of computers still have mercy on my soul, for me not knowing this. And I thought I know a lot about computers. You can't believe how much time I used searching my hard disk, trying to find the images print screen would save there. Clipboard! Thanks, it refreshing to know how simple things can still be beyond my graps...

Kengo
04-18-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by lassev
it refreshing to know how simple things can still be beyond my graps...

I get that feeling all the time...

master_thomas
04-18-2003, 01:24 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, a faulty area portal caused something similar. Any character or shot within the area portal (it was deep) was invisible, but that stopped a while ago. Tell me, Business_Eskimo, how many stormies and reborn are there?

After that release, I deleted quite a few.

The only md3's in there are 6 candle things (in SP, many were placed at once), a gun rack, and a few pick ups.

That's the problem with designs like the town you had, Kengo. We mappers must rely on what the player can't see to increase perfomance. If the player can see almost anything, we have a problem, similar to the problem both of us ahd with skyboxes.

When the original devs of many games must have npcs appear midfight, due to storyline or engine limits, they usually put an open door, with a locked door behind it. The npcs come from the locked door. I can't do this do to the fact that I'm trying to make this similar to yavin_temple.I can only remove npcs.

Business_Eskimo
04-18-2003, 08:48 PM
Well, I have some good if rather embarassing (for me) news. While testing my own singleplayer map, I experienced the same problems as on yours. Whenever I moved my character, stormtroopers would spawn on top of me, as I encountered in your map. After some significant messing around with controls, I realized that somehow the 's' key was bound to a command that created a stormtrooper! I quickly went into the console and typed "unbind s" and fixed it in the controls settings. Your map works much better for me now. The only problems I seem to have are that I can't get from the second room to the hangar without using noclip. I like the turrets on the tie fighters, nice touch :)

master_thomas
04-18-2003, 09:29 PM
Missing script (I'm so embarrassed).

Hey, to fix this, can you guys, lassev, and Business_eskimo, and anyone else who downloads this build create the script?
First, check in the scripts folder in the pk3. Look for brokencutscene. It is either in player settings or just in the scripts folder (no comments, please. It's just easier this way). If it's there, it should be put directly into the scripts folder. If it isn't, make the following (using behaved,notepad, or wordpad:

camera ( /*@CAMERA_COMMANDS*/ ENABLE );

affect ( "kyle", /*@AFFECT_TYPE*/ FLUSH )
{
move ( $tag( "dropcam", ORIGIN)$, 0.000 );

task ( "teleport" )
{
move ( $tag( "dropcam", ORIGIN)$, 0.000 );
}
do ( "teleport" );
}

use ( "broken_kyle" );
use ( "brokenkyle" );

affect ( "brokenkyle", /*@AFFECT_TYPE*/ FLUSH )
{
set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_NO_FALLTODEATH", /*@BOOL_TYPES*/ "false" );
set ( /*@SET_TYPES*/ "SET_FORCE_INVINCIBLE", /*@BOOL_TYPES*/ "true" );
}

camera ( /*@CAMERA_COMMANDS*/ MOVE, $tag( "brokencam1", ORIGIN)$, 0 );
camera ( /*@CAMERA_COMMANDS*/ PAN, $tag( "brokencam1", ANGLES)$, < 0.000 0.000 0.000 >, 0 );
wait ( 4000.000 );
use ( "liftbreak" );
wait ( 1750.000 );
use ( "tel" );
camera ( /*@CAMERA_COMMANDS*/ DISABLE );
remove ( "broken_kyle" );


Name it "brokencutscene"(without the quotes), and put it into the base/scripts folder or the scripts folder in the pk3.

__________________________________________________ __

I just checked it. The script isn't there. Oh well, just make the script above. Sorry for the inconvenience, but I could have sworn I put it in there. Hmmmmm, weird.

__________________________________________________ __
Glad to hear that that random spawning of stormies wasn't my fault. I have a similar problem with screenshot (I bound that to "s" so I wouldn't get the console window. Levelshot overwrites the previous levelshot.

__________________________________________________ __

Let's see: I've added a bunch of breakable boxes. a three-peice stack in which if you break the two bottom crates, the top falls and spins (I think it's a nice touch), but I haven't got the spinning to work.

I put three jagged walls of metal (gensurf, you've done it again) with three sniping holes (I removed the bunker to conserve triangles).

Also, I made it so that 10 seconds after you enter the hangar, (unless you use noclip) a piece of the ceiling falls.

__________________________________________________ __

On Sunday, I'll have a microphone, so I can make my own sound files for the beginning cutscene, and the final cutscene.

__________________________________________________ __

Well, I gotta go now. The chair I'm, sitting on is falling apart :rolleyes:. Gonna take a break from The Attack On Yavin (because I need feedback from the level in its entirety with the script).

I'm gonna get to work on my house (the map).

Business_Eskimo
04-18-2003, 10:43 PM
Ok, it's much better with the script. :D This is what happens now: I fall throught the floor into the hangar, take out the bad guys, and go over to the switch on the wall. I press it. I get a very long cinematic of a pillar on the wall, zooming in every 10 or so seconds. At this point, several scripts are missing. They are:
scripts/die.IBI
scripts/invincibility.IBI
fightingkyle.IBI


:eek:
Then I get the X-Wings flying out of the hangar. Looks nice, but if you had a bit less of a pause at the end it would be perfect. :D great work!

Business_Eskimo
04-18-2003, 10:44 PM
Oh, I forgot to say that your .PK3 file seems to have more stuff in it than is neccessary. I don't think you need all those. efx files. Taking 'em out would cut down on the map's size quite a bit :)

wedge2211
04-19-2003, 01:08 AM
You only need to include in a pk3 anything that isn't included in the standard JK2 game. If it isn't in one of the assets pk3's, put it in yours. Basically, you need to put in any custom stuff you made for THAT level.

Kengo
04-19-2003, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas
That's the problem with designs like the town you had, Kengo. We mappers must rely on what the player can't see to increase perfomance. If the player can see almost anything, we have a problem, similar to the problem both of us ahd with skyboxes.


You're right man, sometimes it's hard but you got to work within the constraints of the engine. Sounds like that flashign you got was down to all the extra stormtroopers Eskimo accidentally spawned in, so guess you don't need to worry about that now :)

Like Wedge says - you don't need stuff from the actual game. Man, I've seen downloads that are largely comprised of stuff that doesn't need to be there :)

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 08:08 PM
What extra effects? All that should be there (I think) is the bryar one.

Argghhhhh, another missing script? I must have forgotten to save the file.

If fightingkyle was there, the canera would have focused on the npc_kyle during the battle. Just a second, I'm going to try something.

Die and invincibility should not be there. Die only had a purpose at the beginning, but I left that out (didn't work too well), I never made an invincibility script.

Okay, not proud of that release. I'll post the remaining scripts.

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 08:14 PM
Here are the scripts. Put them in a pk3 in the base folder.

Sorry there are some extras, but I'm in a bit of a hurry.


Made my first good simple patch mesh! For my house, I made an entire bathtub (no faucets) out of a single patch mesh.

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 10:54 PM
So far, one person has downloaded the scripts.

My house is becoming highly detailed and is all one node, but retains an fps of 50. MAybe when I add some models, it will go down.

Made a detailed lamp base. Once you get the hang of the simple patch mesh, it isn't as hard.

I must get good at the simple patch mesh. Most mappers with incredible architecture don't map SP.The members of the "Cult of the Simple Patch Mesh", led by Wedge, only map MP. I must become good at architecture.

Getting a problem with the water in the tub. Leslie has had it. The water is a liquid, but it appears as a black and white grid. I'm going to look it up after this post.

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 11:06 PM
KK, possible solutions buddy--I get the same darn water probs in all my maps and I have to play around 'till I get it working. Here are some *possible* solutions that have worked for me in the past:

1. Don't caulk a water brush. Ever. Who ever came up with that should be dragged into the street and shot. (ok, not really but for the sake of this post...) = )

There we go. I used caulk, but there are some other things in the post that I have violated, but people disagreed with those. (that is a run on sentence. Screw proper grammar [I'm a hypocrite. I dedicated half a good sized, post telling someone to use proper grammar. I truly hate hypocrites mroe than most other things)

master_thomas
04-19-2003, 11:11 PM
I turned the caulk to nodraw and now it is still a black and white grid, but now, it's not even a liquid! It's just a nonsolid. Oh well. It doesn't require water anyway.

master_thomas
04-20-2003, 10:29 AM
Wedge, Kengo, Louis, and anyone I missed, I just saw your jk2review site. It's nice. Can I join?

So far, the scripts have been downloaded twice.

master_thomas
04-22-2003, 12:37 AM
Still, only 2 people have downloaded (the site was down all day, so I'm not surprised).

I will talk little more of my house (the map).

Already joined jk2review.

I don't feel like doing any imperial installations. I'm going to start the dream sequence, but I'll need some textures. I may be wrong, but doesn't the PS2 startup screen have floating rectangular prisms that are transucent and colorful? I need something like that. Time for my first thread in the requests forum.

lassev
04-22-2003, 03:16 AM
All right! Now I'm back at business. I downloaded your scripts and I'm going to see through (at last) your beta2 with all the scripts included.

You had pretty much rooms and corridors in your schematics. If you are still considering mapping that all, I can only hope you haven't underestimated the need of details.

And an interesting (possibly) detail quite suitable for a non-linearity came into my mind the other day: You could perhaps have a big hall, and one way through would take you to the floor of the hall, the other way would just make you cross some bridge high in the air, close to the ceiling, with no way to make it alive to the floor or the other way around. It would make the player hopelessly ponder if there's a way to the rest of the place... I'm sure this is nothing original, but if I had any non-linearity (which I don't have) this would be one thing to include, just because it would also spare some work.

master_thomas
04-22-2003, 11:52 AM
I haven't even finished the walls yet, let alone, started detail placement. Don't worry. I'll have details and I've drawn out the nodes on graph paper and I like what I see. I don't really have to spare the details because the nodes will be small and many, which I may lengthen the vis process of compile, but will keep framerates up.

The showcase forum for My House is at the forums at jk2review.highrailjunction.com, but I'm in the mood for some scripted events, so I'm working on the dream sequence, where nonsensical things can happen.

master_thomas
04-22-2003, 02:59 PM
Well, the dream sequence is giving me two errors (only 6 brushes and 26 entities, mainly lights).

During the vis process, a new window comes up stating that Q3map2 has generated errors and will be closed by windows. Then, it moves right onto the light process.

Finally, when I try to play the map, Jedi Outcast just shuts down to the desktop, where it looks like it has a case of a fullbright-inducing leak. Everything is super bright.

On to good news: I finished every outer wall in Thew Attack On Yavin2, there are no leaks and probably never will be, and the only other structural brushes that I will need to make in the future are to break up nodes.

master_thomas
04-22-2003, 07:59 PM
I've started the texturing of the new area. Going for a Kejim feel.
Not much more to say.

master_thomas
04-23-2003, 12:44 AM
Made my first shader! Emmits white light from the ceiling for a good part of the new section (new versions will come eventually). Oooohh, I'm now a Gungan. A weird amphibious creature from Naboo.

lassev
04-23-2003, 03:42 AM
Now that I saw all the level with scripts included (most of them), I can comment on a couple of things. Let me concentrate on cinematics this time. I think you should slower the camera movement in the beginning cinematic. It's quite fast, and thus not so realistic. Another point is the falling cinematic at the elevator room. You should perhaps hone the launching. Last time I played the level, I was still standing on the balcony, when some other guy, possibly a shadowtrooper or Luke himself, broke the elevator. The script launched and suddenly I wasn't anymore standing on the balcony, close to the ceiling, but falling through the hole...

And still another point. This one is about the ending cinematic. There's a pretty lenghty fighting sequence after you have pushed the button. Now, where did all those enemies come from? I though I had already killed them all (aided by the jedis). And how come that Kyle pushed the button in the control room and next moment he was fighting some shadow trooper totally elsewhere? Well, beside these logical things the ending fighting is a bit too long. After all, you cannot yourself do anything, yet you see Kyle fighting. The idea of the game is to let player fight, isn't it?

And one thing you must definitely change: The ships flying out. Change the point of camera view. I hope you won't be offended, but right now the straight from the rear view made the whole sequence look like South Park. There seemed to be no perspective what so ever. And add some engine noise to the ships.

Well, this was kind of negative feedback, and people always deserve positive also, but after all, this is but honing of the details. Keeping that in mind, you might consider replacing the Rodian snipers with storm troopers equiped with distruptors.

master_thomas
04-23-2003, 12:03 PM
Okay, I was actually just thinking about adding engine noise.

The ending cutscene takes place a small amount of time after you hit the button. I'll add an imperial craft and show the jedi jump down the hole. I'll also remove Kyle from the cutscene, focus the camera on Luke, and end the fight in half the time. After the half, the player runs over to finish the fight. Once all shadowtroopers are defeated, the very end will happen, now, where do you want the camera?

I'll make it so the breakable triggers a target_counter, which is also triggered by a trigger_once, on the elevator. The trigger_once will be inactive until you defeat the shadowtroopers.


I'll look into the sniper stormies.

Kengo
04-23-2003, 03:04 PM
By an odd coincidence Heke7 has written a tutorial for making sniper troopers here:

http://www.geocities.com/kengomaps/tutorials_npcabilities.html

Glad to see you on the jk2review forums thomas! Also good of you to showcase some stuff there :)

Sounds like the mapping is going well, wish I was so productive. I'm gonna have to go do some mapping :)

master_thomas
04-23-2003, 04:23 PM
Thanks for the link, Kengo. I can count on your site for many of my SP modding needs. To be a productive mapper, you must learn to base your outdoor construction on grid 7. That's how I did the final floor and ceiling placement (60% of my structural brushes) in 5 minutes and the walls, in about 30 minutes of work. (I didn't work on that for awhile)

Strange, I don't feel as though I have productive habits, I always compile under the second final for Q3Map2, (sort of the bsp fullvis of the SOF2 compiler)my mouse has a weird problem in which it almost always automatically double-clicks, making clipping and selecting difficult, and I am easily distracted. I guess I just spend a lot of time on mapping.

Nice to see you on JK2review as well and look forward to seeing many other forum goers.

master_thomas
04-23-2003, 11:39 PM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10771.jpg

As I talked about earlier, a Tibanna Gas platform. I need your opinion: Does it look far away, or just small? It really is small to make it look far away, but I don't like the result.

Business_Eskimo
04-23-2003, 11:52 PM
About the tibanna gas platform: If it is simply smaller, the perspective won't change properly as you move to the side. I'm not a big fan of it, personally. Sorry. :cool:

wedge2211
04-23-2003, 11:55 PM
Easy fix: make an image file of the Tibanna platform (either by screenshot or by drawing it manually), and paste it onto the skybox image. Presto! Really far away Tibanna-gas platform!

Business_Eskimo
04-23-2003, 11:57 PM
Ahh, good idea, Wedge! That would be perfect ;)

master_thomas
04-24-2003, 12:10 AM
That was recommended at JK2review. I'm not going to try a hand drawn one. I can't draw at all. Screenshot it is.

boinga1
04-24-2003, 12:12 AM
Work well, it shall, hmm yess.... :yoda:

lassev
04-24-2003, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas
Okay, I was actually just thinking about adding engine noise.

The ending cutscene takes place a small amount of time after you hit the button. I'll add an imperial craft and show the jedi jump down the hole. I'll also remove Kyle from the cutscene, focus the camera on Luke, and end the fight in half the time. After the half, the player runs over to finish the fight. Once all shadowtroopers are defeated, the very end will happen, now, where do you want the camera?

I'll make it so the breakable triggers a target_counter, which is also triggered by a trigger_once, on the elevator. The trigger_once will be inactive until you defeat the shadowtroopers.


I'll look into the sniper stormies.

Sounds good. Those changes will make it much better, trust me. However, even if I'm complaining about the camera position, it's still up to you how you make it. Perhaps you could use two cameras, because there are more ships than one. The other camera could be outside the door. You could also check out how it would look like if a camera follows a ship flying out (from a position left or right, not straight front or rear). It might work nicely.

master_thomas
04-24-2003, 06:46 PM
Well, I got the microphone working. I tried my own voice, but it sounds nothing like Luke or Kyle. Kengo, I may need your voice actors.

master_thomas
04-24-2003, 10:17 PM
I replaced the lighting in the boiler room with shaders.

Here's the old picture (this really is an old picture. One of the first on this thread).http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10423.jpg

Here's the new picture.

What do you think of the difference?
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10777.jpg

Personally, I like the change.

I still haven't gotten any work on the gas platform.

master_thomas
04-25-2003, 08:54 PM
Okay, now the new pic at the angle of the oldest picture. http://massassi.net/ec/images/10793.jpg

I also added these http://massassi.net/ec/images/10794.jpg The clip brushes, which caused me a few problems are now well clipped. Do they fit? They look a little more advanced technologically, but they are generators in the basement.

Business_Eskimo
04-26-2003, 10:56 PM
Seems okay to me. I don't really think anyone will mind if there are generators in the basement. :)

master_thomas
04-27-2003, 01:15 AM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/10815.jpg

Here's the light from the window.

http://massassi.net/ec/images/10814.jpg

Don't mind the fullbright, I used it to show the supports.

http://massassi.net/ec/images/10813.jpg

Personal work lights.

Business_Eskimo
04-28-2003, 09:38 PM
Looks pretty good! Made any progress lately? This thread hasn't been updated in a little while. Just wondering. :)

Pnut_Man
04-28-2003, 09:40 PM
Question- Are the screenshots that you just posted from your Yavin Map? I'm a bit confused on the whole matter :/

master_thomas
04-29-2003, 05:39 PM
No, it is actually Bespin, even though it looks imperial (they've been rebuilding to suit their needs).

I'm working on four maps. Myhouse, Attackonyavin1, 2, and 3.

Sorry I haven't been posting as often. My sister has to use the computer half the day, I have lots of schoolwork, and my 14th birthday was two days ago.

master_thomas
05-01-2003, 11:27 PM
Okay, I've gotten back to work on #1 and finished the sniper stormies and the camera is more dynamic. Now, I just need the engine noises and I wanted to add thuster flares. Flare shader?

master_thomas
05-05-2003, 09:32 PM
red_flare is giving me errors. It appears to be an effect, but I can't get the movement of the fx_runner to sync with the movement of the ships.

The sound is in and I put nice little fadeouts before the battle, before the player takes over during the battle, and before the ships start to leave. This makes it so it doen't look like everything is happening at once.

lassev
05-06-2003, 08:20 AM
So, now that the first part of the Attack is about ready, or very soon will be, are you going to release it, or do you first build also the next part and release them together?

master_thomas
05-07-2003, 09:30 AM
It will be released soon, but I'm getting less and less time to work because my sister is working later (using the computer longer) and I have more and more homework.

I've added sort of a trademark thing. It's a cutscene. I will get a picture soon. Just compiling now.

master_thomas
05-07-2003, 11:07 PM
Needs some work, but here it is:
http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/10983.jpg

I need to make it look a little better. It's also sometimes hard to read.

Business_Eskimo
05-09-2003, 08:10 PM
Hmm... did you use fullbright for that pic of the "trademark" or is that just some weird ambient lighting? If you change the lighting it should look fine.


Sorry I've been gone a while, I've had a lot of work to do lately.

master_thomas
05-10-2003, 12:47 AM
Now that I think of it, i had a "max_map_lightgrid array", which caused fullbright. It's fixed now.

To make it more interesting, I am currently making a tie fly across screen, spinning out of control, followed by an X wing, which had just shot it down.

Business_Eskimo
05-10-2003, 09:23 PM
Ah, yes, sounds great. When you feel like it, upload a new screenie. It should look much better :)

master_thomas
05-15-2003, 10:05 PM
Bad news :(

Rotation of tie has never worked.

I'm having compile time trouble. It spent 2 hours on passage portal flow ...0...1...2...3... Either something I added is making 2000 nodes or there's ome osrt of error. It's been slow for a while.

War Master
05-16-2003, 03:12 AM
You probably have a leak somewhere. A skybox can "mask" a leak.

Business_Eskimo
05-16-2003, 09:53 PM
Well, it's been a while since I've been around here, soo....
I havent looked at this thread much lately. Doesn't appear that I've missed out on too much. Anyways, enough babbling...
[HR]

Bad news

Rotation of tie has never worked.
Yes, I had a feeling you might have a problem with the rotation of the tie fighter. It seems sort of tough to do for some reason, if possible.

[HR]

About your problem with the compile time-

War Master- I'm pretty sure he knows about that. But it will also increase the compile time.

Laso, if you use Q3Map2, it tells you when there's a leak. So, that may or may not be the case.

master_thomas
05-17-2003, 01:21 AM
I used BSP monitoring. No leaks. I turned 5 brushes into details and now it takes two hours to get to passage portal flow ...0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...

A little better, but still very annoying. I tried slightly changing the script, but I need to recompile, which will probably take three hours. It is 11:17 PM where I live right now. It will have to be left going overnight.

War Master
05-18-2003, 04:54 PM
The compiler doesn't find all leaks so to speak. If your map is boxed in by a skybox it can hide them. I know this first hand. I had this problem a while back. I removed the skybox and closed off open areas and I found several leaks. I even remember reading a Quake III tutorial on testing each room after completion for leaks. You block off any open areas and compile to test.

master_thomas
05-19-2003, 09:49 PM
Well, usually, the problem is max_map_lightgrid array, which is fixed by adjusting he gridsize.

I ran another compile and it has gone for 2 hours on a test quality compile. Passage portal flow ...9.... Portal flow takes by far the longes: about 2 hours and 45 minutes of the 3 hour compile.

The tie isn't working. I have rotate commands in a task other than the move command, with the move command, and outside a task all together. I habve gotten models to rotate, so what's the problem?

Business_Eskimo
05-20-2003, 12:53 AM
Hmmm... could you post the script up here? Maybe we might be able to catch whatever's up with that script thats giving you a hard time here.

master_thomas
05-21-2003, 12:24 AM
Here, I've tried this:

affect ( "crashfighter", /*@AFFECT_TYPE*/ FLUSH )
{
task ( "crash" )
{
move ( $tag( "tmfighttag", ORIGIN)$, 1000.000 );
rotate ( < 4320.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1000.000 );
}

do ( "crash" );





and this:

affect ( "crashfighter", /*@AFFECT_TYPE*/ FLUSH )
{
task ( "crash" )
{
move ( $tag( "tmfighttag", ORIGIN)$, 1000.000 );
}
do ("crash");
task ( "rotate" )
{
rotate ( < 4320.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1000.000 );
}

dowait ( "rotate" );
}

Neither seem to work. I tried all of them together:

affect ( "crashfighter", /*@AFFECT_TYPE*/ FLUSH )
{

task ( "crash" )
{
move ( $tag( "tmfighttag", ORIGIN)$, 1000.000 );
rotate ( < 4320.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1000.000 );
}

do ( "crash" );
task ( "rotate" )
{
rotate ( < 4320.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1000.000 );
}

dowait ( "rotate" );
}

That doesn't work either.

lassev
05-21-2003, 03:55 AM
rotate ( < 4320.000 0.000 0.000 >, 1000.000 );
Rotate values are absolute directions the entity will face, when the command is performed. Thus I don't quite understand the 4320.000 part of this command in your script, when a circle has only 360 degrees.

master_thomas
05-21-2003, 08:27 PM
That would do it. 4320=some number of spins. instead, should I put 360 with a loop command?

master_thomas
05-21-2003, 11:12 PM
Tried looping some 360 ones, but it still won't spin.

http://massassi.net/ec/images/11133.jpg

Those who downloaded the beta (2), remember the room with the button that opens the hangar? I added some debris, including parts of the now broken display window things. This is all gensurf and clipping.

Business_Eskimo
05-21-2003, 11:49 PM
I suggest that you add a few small lights (with like a light value of 40) to behind those panels, the shadpws are a bit... harsh.


I like those chunks on the floor, they help add to that beat up sort of feel.

I've never been able to figure out Gensurf... :p

master_thomas
05-22-2003, 01:02 AM
It's easy when you ignore the things that you don't understand. Decimate will lower the number of brushes used, I think there's something called random seed, which gives you random patterns. Texture is self explanatory. That's all I figured out. The reason I did this was that the room seemed to unlike the original. I was unable to catch the feel of the original so I made it look beaten up.


It's a short compile. The shadows make it look more like the only source of light is the map. I may make it flicker a little.

As you can see, the fullbright is cleared up.

lassev
05-22-2003, 03:56 AM
That would do it. 4320=some number of spins. instead, should I put 360 with a loop command?

I don't know. Everything is fine as long as it works, eh? But still I must repeat. Rotate values are absolute directions. The command's name can be a little misleading, because you don't actually rotate anything in relation to its former position, but let's say its normal position, that is, the position it is in Radiant.

So, if you rotate 360 degrees, your brush may not actually rotate at all, if it is already facing 360 degrees. You might try to split the full spin to smaller portions, like 120 degrees, and rotate it three times sequentially to get the full spin.

It's not as easy a subject as it could be, but not as hard as it might be. I hope I made some sense, and didn't fool myself.

master_thomas
05-22-2003, 05:51 PM
Oh, so, like 180, 360, 180, 360? That would make sense.

master_thomas
05-22-2003, 06:08 PM
Wohoo! It works!:D Now I just need to tweak the spin and fix a few minor bugs.

master_thomas
05-23-2003, 12:41 AM
No bugs anymore. Tonight, I'm going to run a final compile. Tomorrow, I will check to see if I missed anything. After that, I will redo the credits and readme. Finally, I will send it to pcgamemods and jk2files.

lassev
05-23-2003, 03:21 AM
Oh yeah. I wish my map would also be ready. Good luck with the release.

master_thomas
05-23-2003, 07:30 PM
I just sent it to pcgamemods and it will be up shortly. When it is, I will send it to jk2files.

War Master
05-23-2003, 11:27 PM
What???!!! A single player map about to be released? Awesome! :D They are few and far between.

master_thomas
05-24-2003, 01:57 AM
Yes, and all the mappers who are incredible architects/builders map multiplayer. Blood asp, Truthful Liar, etc.

master_thomas
05-24-2003, 05:59 AM
It's officially out. (They've put it up on they're site). It took less time than I thought. You can find it at pcgamemods.com

master_thomas
05-26-2003, 05:23 PM
I just wanted to point out that since I'm now a member of the OTTC and 've finished AoY: 1 and am well into number 2, I will be taking a break from the Attack on Yavin series. No updates for awhile.

The Count
05-26-2003, 06:07 PM
I played it and minus the few cutscenes sorry but its little more than anyother JO SP Custom Level: Kill The Reborn, pretty lame if you ask me, it needs some originality in it, its nothing on some of the MOTS SP Levels. To Make A Good SP Level consult the DF MOD TEAM;)

master_thomas
05-26-2003, 06:20 PM
The DF mod team has something to work with. Ideas are already done for them. They just need to put them there. I need to design such things, then put them there.

Actually, most first SP maps don't even end. You kill all enemies and stay there until you quit. I gave custom credits at the end (brings you back to the menu as well), which most maps don't. Sure, it could never compare with some maps even for JK2, but it beats most first attempts.

Shadriss
05-27-2003, 12:16 AM
You do have a couple of valid points, Thomas... but even so, after all the waiting we did, I think we expected something a bit more... substantial.

That said, it is a good first map, considering. But Yavin 2 had better be something special, eh? :)

master_thomas
05-27-2003, 01:21 AM
Of course it will be better. I'm not forced to try to copy the architecture of yavin_temple. Instead, I can make my own inventions of detail. Yavin_temple lacked details other than models and had very few things that could look really good if redone.

My goal in mapping is to do things that few have done, especially things that I wouldn't be able to do in multiplayer, like the gun light, the cutscenes and other scripted events, etc. I just did a bad job on my first try. I want to be a revolutionary SP mapper.

Once again, first maps are rarely any good if not terrible. Second are okay or good, but the third attempts are usually great. I'm going for first to be mediocre (which I guess describes it best), second to be good, and third to be wonderful. Any after that would probably be for Jedi Academy.

From 1-10, 1st map is usually 2-, 2 is 3-5, and third is usually 6+. My goal is 1st:3- 2nd:4-6 3rd:7+.

I'm pretty sure I've improved for number 2. I'm already well into it, so it won't be as long a wait, but I have more projects to work on, including prefabs for the OTTC and a smaller project, "myhouse" (really is modelled after my own house). I hope to finish myhouse in a month and then work on AoY2. Then, some more for OTTC (about a week). Then, it's on to AoY3. I don't know how long that will take.

master_thomas
06-02-2003, 10:48 PM
Just thought I'd salvage this dying thread with some updates.

http://massassi.net/ec/images/11269.jpg

The first room. Needs to be scaled down.

http://massassi.net/ec/images/11268.jpg

The walkway. Needs some work because it seems cramped.

http://massassi.net/ec/images/11267.jpg

A skylight. The sky shader emmits light for realism and because shader light seems smoother.

master_thomas
06-11-2003, 09:26 AM
Come on, guys, I need some comments.

I'm also now accepting ideas for this map, since I've got a creative block right now.

Business_Eskimo
06-11-2003, 09:08 PM
Hmm, lets see.... it might help if you added a little more detail on the floor somehow.... perhaps something like a spot on the floor cut out, covered with a piece of glass, and some tubes underneath? Just an idea. Hmm, what else.... some statues and such may add a little bit to the bespin atmosphere.

Finally, the wall texture looks stretched. It would be better if you had multiple textures on the wall. It would look better if you had a texture on the bottom, one in the middle, one on the top, etc.

master_thomas
06-11-2003, 10:28 PM
You see, I'm going to scale everything down soon. The first idea seems cool and easy.

Business_Eskimo
06-12-2003, 06:14 PM
Those angled pillar things look a little bland (the ones in the background first screenshot and on the left of the second). The 'basic' textures seem to look OK in the editor but don't look good in-game. It would look better if a more complex texture was put on it instead.

master_thomas
06-12-2003, 11:32 PM
Okay, but I'm taking a break until June 25th.

Business_Eskimo
06-13-2003, 03:08 PM
Oh, okay. I'll shut up until then :p

master_thomas
06-14-2003, 01:12 PM
Okay, but I was hoping for some ideas for the imperial section, which makes up most of the map.

master_thomas
06-23-2003, 12:20 AM
I've resumed work and completed resizing (actually, I rebuild the Bespin section). Pictures tomorrow.

master_thomas
06-23-2003, 02:59 PM
Oh no. My most hated error. SV: Set Brush Model: NULL. How can I fix it?

master_thomas
06-23-2003, 05:13 PM
Never mind. I fixed it. The culprit was a door, which had nothing wrong with it that I could notice.

Jo
06-24-2003, 01:05 PM
Well thats all fine and dandy. but dont forget there is that helpful http://www.lucasforums.com/images/edit.gif button to help you http://www.lucasforums.com/images/edit.gif you posts. its bad enough doulble posting so dont forget that http://www.lucasforums.com/images/edit.gif button again ok?

master_thomas
06-25-2003, 02:21 AM
Well, there was a three hour difference. I encountered the error, and put how I fixed it.

Sorry I haven't posted the pictures. I'll get them tomorrow.

master_thomas
06-26-2003, 01:39 AM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/11561.jpg

Pipes

http://massassi.net/ec/images/11562.jpg

Hey, Business_Eskimo; was this what you had in mind earlier?

Business_Eskimo
06-27-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by master_thomas

Hey, Business_Eskimo; was this what you had in mind earlier?

Pretty much. The real reason why i suggested that at all was I was working on a bespin kind of themed SP map myself, and I was doing that. This is what mine looks like: http://www.geocities.com/businesseskimo/shot0023.jpg

lassev
06-27-2003, 03:45 AM
Thomas, be sure not to take the habit of making very thin walls (including ceilings). It will give you trouble afterwards.

Otherwise your mapping skills are improving. Just keep up the trend of reviewing your work and looking for places and techniques you could improve. It takes time, but is for sure rewarding.

master_thomas
07-02-2003, 02:13 AM
http://massassi.net/ec/images/11699.jpg

Details are filtered. This pointfile goes through the floor at a 90 degree angle. Am I missing something???:confused:

Business_Eskimo
07-05-2003, 03:14 PM
Thats sort of odd... have you got it figured out yet?

master_thomas
07-05-2003, 09:17 PM
I haven't done any work on the map lately, (last two days were pretty busy) so no. It might be the cause of the weird area portal problem.

master_thomas
07-08-2003, 01:17 AM
Okay, I'm not going to get any work done until the Monday after next. This week I'm going to be very busy and the next, I'm going on vacation.

master_thomas
07-12-2003, 02:46 AM
I had one free day. Yesterday, I wanted to work, but I need some time to plan on the extended Bespin section of AoY2, so I started work on AoY3. It's coming along nicely, but I only have 46 entities and 117 brushes, so there's not much to take pictures of.

The Truthful Liar
07-12-2003, 07:16 AM
Try to avoid triple posting. Thanks.

lassev
07-12-2003, 07:19 AM
I had one free day. Yesterday, I wanted to work, but I need some time to plan on the extended Bespin section of AoY2, so I started work on AoY3. It's coming along nicely, but I only have 46 entities and 117 brushes, so there's not much to take pictures of.

It's always a good thing to plan long ahead, but don't overdo it. You'll get maps release sooner, if you finish AoY2 and only then start AoY3. And that also makes sure you don't do any needless work, if you suddenly feel, while mapping AoY2, that something should be changed, something that would affect also the later AoY3. Well, I might not the right person to give this kind of advice, having released nothing :D But it's just a thought. Nice thing you are mapping as hard as ever.

Lighthouse_2 (Lighthouse topside, the last map of the three) has over 7000 brushes and something like 1078 entities. There won't be more brushes, as it's mapped architecturally completely, but some waypoints and cameras are going to add to the entity count, before I'm finished with the last cinematic.

master_thomas
07-12-2003, 12:08 PM
Lassev, I did go through a major design change and I need to plan that out, but I suddenly have trouble mapping Bespin. I felt like doing something in which I wasn't bound to get it look like somthing that already exists. Everything in AoY2 is figured out, except for the detail placement. AoY3 is planned out as well and I decided to get some work done on that since I'm not doing anything for AoY2. Maybe during my vacation I'll get some inspiration for my Bespin and Imperial sections (one is like cloud city, the other looks like an imperial installation), which are all that's left of AoY2, big, though, they are, once I get to work on them, it'll go fast.

master_thomas
07-21-2003, 08:36 PM
Well, I'm back from my vacation, which was full of pain, boredom and returning to my house, which was full of flies. :(

I thought about the Bespin section. I decided the banquet room where Han Solo tried to shoot Darth Vader, some carbonite chambers, and I have a strange desire for a large extravagant room, but I don't know what exactly. I could use some ideas for that.

master_thomas
07-21-2003, 08:45 PM
Well, I'm back from my vacation, which was full of pain, boredom and returning to my house, which was full of flies. :(

I thought about the Bespin section. I decided the banquet room where Han Solo tried to shoot Darth Vader, some carbonite chambers, and I have a strange desire for a large extravagant room, but I don't know what exactly. I could use some ideas for that.

MagBag
07-28-2003, 12:58 AM
Well Master Thomas I see this work here and it looks promising. Keep at it!:)

master_thomas
08-12-2003, 11:31 PM
Well, to those of you who don't know, I've been on hiatus. I was just opening radiant, eager to resume work, when I get "Warning: Line ****** is Incomplete [01]" in the status box over and over again. I waited 20 min. and it never opened. :(

I tried again and again and all that happened was that the number of the incomplete line (the ******) changed and it still won't open.

I posted this at jk2 review a week ago, but no one could answer.

Kengo
08-12-2003, 11:51 PM
The colour scheme on the forums here seems to be changing daily, but I kind of like the temporary upheaval!

OK, well you got the BAK file, and then the snapshot files in maps/snapshots.

Also, making sure you have a backup, you can open the map file with a text editor (say notepad) and look at all the lines, trying to find the problem. Could be something to do with the Worldspawn maybe? I accidentally deleted mine once and had to re-insert it with notepad.

master_thomas
08-13-2003, 05:22 AM
Interesting. When I checked the .map, it didn't go up to the number of the line that was incomplete. Now, that I changed the bak to a .map, and checked it with wordpad:

"// brush 62
{
( 1911 257 -2321 ) ( 1923 257 -2321 ) ( 1911 1023 -2321 ) system/caulk 0 0 0 0.250000 0.250000 0 4 0
( 1923 257 -281 ) ( 1923 1023 -281 ) ( 1923 257 -2321 ) bespin/wall 0 0 0 0.250000 0.250000 0 0 0
( 1905 703 -3616 ) ( 1917 703 -1576 ) ( 1905 703 -1576 ) system/caulk 0 0 0 0.250000 0.250000 0 4 0
( 1905 577 -3616 ) ( 1917 577 -1576 ) ( 1917 577 -3616 ) system/caulk 0 0 0 0.250000 0.250000 0 4 0
( 1911 257 -2321 ) ( 1911 1023 -2321 ) ( 1911 1023 -281 ) system/caulk 0 0 0 0.250000 0.250000 0 4 0
( 1905"

(it still won't load)

And it ends there. I'm guesing that I need to somehow finish the last line and adding end-brackets below, but how do I finish it? I'll try a copy and paste first.

EDIT:
Okay; I fixed the line. It's starting up. Now for the moment of....

:eek:
"GTK radiant has generated errors and will be closed by windows. You will have to restart the program."
:eek:

:swear: :mad:

Okay, that might not happen again. One more try.

:eek: :) :) :D :D

It worked!!! Thank you so much Kengo.

Why do I always forget about the .bak file. :rolleyes: