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View Full Version : Iraqs secret ally ?


griff38
03-24-2003, 09:16 PM
David Gergen former presidential advisor to 3 administrations. Said live on the Chris Mathews Hardball show that Bush is raising hell with Putin because it is now apparent that the Iraqis have new sophisticated weapons & hardware no doubt recently aquired from Russian companies. Night vision gear, anti tank weapons, gps jamming gear and others.
Gergen said Russia is a secret ally to Iraq.

ShockV1.89
03-24-2003, 09:33 PM
It's hard to say. I'm really not up to snuff on Russias current government and it's involvement with corporations. But if they have a capitalist system anything like the States do... Then I would defend them. After all, that would be like condemning the USA when Grumman sells air equipment to Libya. Just let us know, we'll take care of them. Dont condemn the government. Likewise with Russia.

Of course, if they come out and say that they were supporting Iraq.... I dunno what to do then... :(

wassup
03-24-2003, 10:42 PM
4 words: "Don't piss off Russia."

You won't like day when 4000 nukes come hauling a$$ upon your country, Gergen...

TheHobGoblin
03-25-2003, 12:48 AM
Any sources plz?

munik
03-25-2003, 01:46 AM
I'm pretty sure he got his information from here (www.crap-I-make-up-to-support-my-opinion.org).

SkinWalker
03-25-2003, 02:40 AM
Or perhaps he got the information from a more reputable source (as well as an actual one) such as here (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/25/international/worldspecial/25RUSS.html?ex=1049173200&en=a5d274bd7c2ff67d&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE)

Cosmos Jack
03-25-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by wassup
4 words: "Don't piss off Russia."

You won't like day when 4000 nukes come hauling a$$ upon your country, Gergen...

They wont like the day when 8,000 nukes come hauling a$$ back at them.....lol :D Any country that starts a nuclear war with America obviously doesn’t care if there is any life left on the planet. So you made a very silly statement. The cold war went on for 40 some years. We were scared of them and they were scared of us. We both thought one was out to get the other.

If ether country used nukes nobody would win.

Hmm how long did Russia try to take over Afghanistan and how long did it take the USA?

griff38
03-25-2003, 10:12 AM
There are many longterm reasons why we should be worried about this, the one that worries me in the short term is the possibilty US soldiers will suffer more casualties.

But what really pisses me off, was Bush claimed he and Putin were great minds who think alike, Putin was his big buddy, "I can see inside the man, he is a good man" said Bush before he was elect...... handed his office.

Clem
03-25-2003, 10:21 AM
well 1 of the synacle (spelling a little awry there) views on this

france and russia were buying or at least sorting out oil from iraq to be sold to them in euros rather than dollars and more of the oil going to them than usa

this is y the blocked the way

this is y america wanted the war

this is not my view

but it does have grains of truth in it but not the whole truth

Cosmos Jack
03-25-2003, 02:31 PM
I agree Russia and France are in Cohoes with Iraq they have been since long before we were supporting him. They stand to loose something if Saddam is taken out of power. So do some other European countries. Did anyone here know that France built Iraq a Nuclear reactor in 1981? The Israelis blew it up not long after, but why does a country with so much oil need a nuclear reactor. Iraq was very pissed with France that they backed the US in the Gulf War. We all know now that Russia is turning there head to companies over there selling Iraq advanced equipment.

It does piss me off to that Putin and Bush played buddy buddy. Russia may be a case of 1 hand not knowing what the other is doing. I wouldn't doubt there is a still person in the Russian Gov. that still dislike America and are still communist.

There is a much bigger picture of what’s going on than the idea of Oil or a corrupt Dictator. Maybe the bigger threat is Saddam getting Nukes from France or Russia. America has a tendency to fight wars threw other countries against Russia or Chine. Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan though back than we backed them against Russia. All these countries really had nothing to do with us they were little buddies of our communist enemy. We couldn't risk fighting Russia, but we could the others.

SkinWalker
03-25-2003, 03:22 PM
I agree. France and Russia stood to lose a profit source by an Iraqi regime change. France and Germany are also key players in the European market, which controls the Euro.

Saudi Arabia and Turkey both disallowed use of air bases for the U.S.

Turkey want's admission to the European Union.

OPEC is considering the use of the Euro as the market currency for oil. Iran and Iraq were both in favor of this. Saudi Arabia seems to dominate OPEC with influence (though I may be incorrect).

I think France, Germany and Russia had a lot more at stake, economically, than they would like the rest of the world to know. Saddam has billions of dollars (or Euros) that he has skimmed from the "Oil for Food" program that investigators have been looking for for years. He was a potentially "good customer" that a war would lose for these countries.

Of course it is not in their best interest to acknowledge this....

Of course, the United States isn't completely innocent.... we had some economic interest up until the '91 Gulf War.

There is some possibility that world opinion is influenced by France, Germany and Russia's economic decisions to not back the U.S.

If the decisions were, in fact, economically based.

Don't get me wrong... I still disagree with the reasons that the U.S. became involved. I think my government's reasons are economically motivated as well.

Clem
03-25-2003, 03:45 PM
whilre france and russia will lose out without sadam

america loses our with him still in place

seems to sum up the oil situation

while this is true and france and russia are anti america over this ... i HIGHLY doubt theyd sell sadam nukes

Luc Solar
03-25-2003, 04:46 PM
France has been acting a lot like the Americans imho. Both countries are filled with patriotism, which is not such a good thing considering international harmony.

In my book a "patriot" tends to be spelled "selfish". :(

France continued with their nuclear tests even though the whole world was against it.

They did/do business with Iraq.

They dub movies. :mad:

They have subs on french tv-shows as well and there's always that dumb ass quiz show going on with that annoying guy who wears too much make-up! :mad:

I do like Gerard Depardieu, though... hmm.

Ok. I need sleep. :(

daring dueler
03-25-2003, 05:02 PM
i beleive russia is aiding them in some areas, but not nukes, and no matter how much they aid america will win this war.

griff38
03-25-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar


They dub movies. :mad:





Thats the first thing that made me laugh in days...................



!! :)

C'jais
03-25-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Luc Solar
They dub movies. :mad:

They have subs on french tv-shows as well and there's always that dumb ass quiz show going on with that annoying guy who wears too much make-up! :mad:

I do like Gerard Depardieu, though... hmm.

Ok. I need sleep. :(

Such valid points you're making when tired, eh Luc? ;)

C'jais
03-25-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
I agree Russia and France are in Cohoes with Iraq they have been since long before we were supporting him. They stand to loose something if Saddam is taken out of power. So do some other European countries.

That's true, but it's also evident that USA stands to gain a lot by winning this war.

Did anyone here know that France built Iraq a Nuclear reactor in 1981? The Israelis blew it up not long after, but why does a country with so much oil need a nuclear reactor.

They wanted nukes, I'm sure. So does France and Israel, and they've no reason to get them either - unless we're talking self defense :rolleyes:

It does piss me off to that Putin and Bush played buddy buddy. Russia may be a case of 1 hand not knowing what the other is doing. I wouldn't doubt there is a still person in the Russian Gov. that still dislike America and are still communist.

Quite possible, but why does it piss you off that Putin and Bush got friendly? It can only be a help in diplomatic situations, no?

There is a much bigger picture of what’s going on than the idea of Oil or a corrupt Dictator. Maybe the bigger threat is Saddam getting Nukes from France or Russia.

I doubt that. It's curious that USA invents connections between Al Qaeda and nuclear dealings to justify their war.

America has a tendency to fight wars threw other countries against Russia or Chine. Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan though back than we backed them against Russia. All these countries really had nothing to do with us they were little buddies of our communist enemy. We couldn't risk fighting Russia, but we could the others.

Interesting take on it, I hadn't considered that.

Cosmos Jack
03-26-2003, 01:14 AM
Well Saddam needs to be gotten rid of regardless of any resign...

Economic issues however name one war in the history of the world that hasn't been related to economic issues and I will call you stupid.

If OPEC goes Euro the US goes flop. That is until we stop using oil in about 20 years; hopefully. So regardless, the war is just ether way. It's in the US's best interest. We get rid of a guy who hates us and isn't very pleasant for that matter. We also secure the $$$ in the world market.

Hmm let the USA die by way of economic failure at the hands of them pesky Franços and Comi Bastereds..... NA

No Putin and Bush being buddy buddy when they might not really be buddy buddy does piss me off...

Well if France built Iraq a nuclear reactore knowing they want to make nukes. So that's indirectly helping them get nukes. What's to say they wouldn't sell them to them if the opportunity presented it's self?

What sounds better to the world? Trying to say AL Queda is getting nukes from Iraq or Iraq is getting nukes from France and Russia than giving them to AL Queda. Wonder how much the world would get pissed at the USA than if we made that claim...

BAD BAD BAD..........P.R.