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Sam Fisher
03-25-2003, 04:08 PM
I was just thinking, wouldn't it be cool if someone could make a mod to catch F-lightning with your lightsaber (like Obi-Wan did in Ep2) or your hand (like Yoda)?

SE_Vader_536
03-25-2003, 04:17 PM
That's a big "if"...

master_thomas
03-25-2003, 08:08 PM
Movie Battles has done that (though it's not complete yet, but available for beta download). Still needs some proper animation, but blocking protects you. Look in the showcase forum.

Anakin
03-26-2003, 04:44 AM
Wasnt there also the chance that it was going to act as force grip as well?

Prime
03-26-2003, 11:20 AM
Wouldn't this make Force Lightning infinitely useless (more so than it is now). If you could block it with your saber, game-wise no one would ever use it. Perhaps it would be better just to have new absorb animations to make it look like this is what your are doing?

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-26-2003, 12:18 PM
Prime,

I believe having the saber 'absorb' lightning is not only in keeping with the movies, but is also one of the basic 'tools' of a Jedi to counter enemy jedi attacks - just the same as force push or pull counters grip...

And remember, in my mod, you can't attack while your blocking - so you can't just sit there and block all day. Well, you can, but your not going to defeat your enemy that way...!

And also, my mod has classes, which means not all enemies are Jedi. Lightning works very nicely on them... ;)

I would certainly like to make the effect look 'proper' at some point - have the Jedi hold his saber out in front of him with one hand, and have the lightning sucked into the saber...
It's on the list! :)

Prime
03-26-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
Prime,

I believe having the saber 'absorb' lightning is not only in keeping with the movies, but is also one of the basic 'tools' of a Jedi to counter enemy jedi attacks - just the same as force push or pull counters grip... I agree that it is canonically accurate, but it seems to me that if you have absorb, which already completely negates Force Lightning, and the ability to block it with a lightsaber, that is just overkill game-wise. I don't believe that we really see absorb in the movies (no one just stands there absorbing lightning), so why not remove that in favor of being able to block force lightning with the lightsaber? To me, that would reflect a closer connection to the movies, without screwing too much with game balance. Heck, you don't even have force absorb in SP.

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-26-2003, 02:34 PM
Sorry - I guess I shouldn't assume people know about my mod! Doh!

I have removed all force powers which are not directly referenced in the movies. So that's:

*Rage
*Absorb
*Protection
*Drain
*Saber Throw

I've had various discussions with various people about whether saber throw is actually referenced in the movies, but I've put it into the not-referenced column...

Kurt_Dunniehue
03-26-2003, 03:09 PM
Well if we were to go to movie accuracy, then we wouldn't have saber throw AT ALL.

This is why:

(A familiar scene. It's bespen, and Hando is leading Han Solo to a dining hall. Door opens, Darth vader is standing at the head of the table)

Han: DIE! *fires*

Darth Vader: I 0\/\/nz0rs you. *blocks blasters, catches weapon.

Han: ... sh*t.

(Now let's replace the accurate Han Solo with some punk who plays as him in JK2)

Han: I r0x0rzzzz!!!`!~!~~!~~~11oneone111 *throws his saber*

Darth Vader: *watches it approach him, and then catches it very similarly as he did with the blaster.* ... Thanks.

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-26-2003, 03:58 PM
lol ... I 'think' I get what your saying :)

Like I say, I've taken out saber throw from my mod.
I've replaced it with a saber defense function in it's place...

...and Han wouldn't have a saber in the first place. He would be represented by the Hero class...

Zappa_0
03-26-2003, 04:23 PM
Forcemod 2 has a function were u can block lightning with the light saber, you can also block force drain, but you have to set it up to block it. Im only talking from the beta version look of it...so that could possibly change with the released version, but I doubt it.

master_thomas
03-26-2003, 06:04 PM
One thing, Renegade, I just thought of this. Rage, though, I never liked it, is sort of referenced in the movies(you don't glow red) that's when Luke removed a hand from Vader.
though)
Vader: "If you will not come to the Dark side, then your sister will!"

Luke:<Comes out of hiding with his saber up >

"AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"

<strikes down Vader with swings much faster and powerful than normal>

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't seen the trilogy in five years.

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-26-2003, 06:08 PM
Well, yeah...
But that's not a force power. That's just being pissed off!! :D

master_thomas
03-26-2003, 06:16 PM
Wow. You answered 4 minutes after me. You're right, but it's rage, which is basically expression of extreme anger, or acting on the fact that you are pissed off.

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-26-2003, 06:28 PM
I get what your saying - Rage could be seen as a Dark Jedi releasing his inner anger or whatever...

If you were to try and reproduce what happenned in that scene in game, you'd have to make it so that when you hit the rage button, the enemy you were dueling with would start making you mad!!

'If you won't turn to the dark side, perhaps your SISTER will!!'

'Err - but, I'm already a Dark Jedi! Plus, I don't have a sister!'

'Ermmm - well, you really stink then!! Phwar! You really are a dirty, scanky bastard!'

'Your really quite a nasty man, and your jibes are starting to make me REALLY angry...'
*Goes berzerk*

...I think it's better out...

master_thomas
03-26-2003, 06:39 PM
Yeah. Otherwise, you would need to put absorb or protection back in and there is no known reference to either of them.

Deadly Geezer
03-26-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

*Rage
All Sith lightsaber experts are supposed to delve into "Sith Intensity" when fighting, which is probably why they are generally better fighters than non-Sith.
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

*Saber Throw

Darth vader throws his saber at Luke in ROTJ on the Death Star II. He then uses the force to retrieve it (?).
I don't know if it matters, but this is confirmed in SW:CCG.

Anakin
03-27-2003, 03:55 AM
I think Force Saber throw is a waste of time in MP, only really useful in SP when destructing items.

On the whole 'is it in SW Universe' I think that Deadly Geezer has got it nailed down, but only Sith use it, but we may be put wrong in EP3 :P

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-27-2003, 04:10 AM
I understand the concept of dark Jedi using their anger to help them in battle. I just don't see any direct evidence of the 'Rage' force power as seen in MP being used in the movies...

Look at all the Saber battles:

Ep. IV: Vader v OB1 - Slow, methodical combat. Both looked as calm as eac-other. IMO - No Rage

Ep. V - Luke v. Vader. Vader is as cool as a cucumber. IMO - No Rage.

Ep. VI. Luke v. Vader. Again, Vader is as cool as a cucumber. In fact, it's only Luke who get's a bit angry, but this is part of the plot trying to make it obvious he's struggling with his feelings etc. And he's still a Light Jedi all through the film! IMO - No Rage

Ep. I Darth Maul v. Qui-Gon & OB1: The only time anybody is looking like he's getting actually 'angry' is OB1 near the end - but he's not turning to the Dark Side! He's just a bit mad his mate got skewered! IMO - No Rage.

Ep. II. Count Dooko v. OB1 & Anakin: Dooko is the most calm out of all the Jedi, except Yoda maybe. Anakin is the most reckless out of all of them. IMO - No Rage.

In short, the only evidence of anything near Rage is when a Light Jedi is being tempted by the Dark Side and not keeping their anger checked.
Proper Dark Jedi though, use their anger - sure - but it's CONTROLLED anger. Not suddenly moving twice as fast and swinging the saber round like they just downed a bag of sugar!!

In short, Force Rage is a gameplay mechanic. It is NOT directly based on what is seen in the films... I'm sure some people are gonna try and argue this point, but to me this seems perfectly obvious...

Rage is staying out of 'Movie Battles'.

Prime
03-27-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Kurt_Dunniehue
Well if we were to go to movie accuracy, then we wouldn't have saber throw AT ALL.

This is why:

(A familiar scene. It's bespen, and Hando is leading Han Solo to a dining hall. Door opens, Darth vader is standing at the head of the table)

Han: DIE! *fires*

Darth Vader: I 0\/\/nz0rs you. *blocks blasters, catches weapon.

Han: ... sh*t.

(Now let's replace the accurate Han Solo with some punk who plays as him in JK2)

Han: I r0x0rzzzz!!!`!~!~~!~~~11oneone111 *throws his saber*

Darth Vader: *watches it approach him, and then catches it very similarly as he did with the blaster.* ... Thanks. And then Vader pull-kicks him...

Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
I've had various discussions with various people about whether saber throw is actually referenced in the movies, but I've put it into the not-referenced column...I always thought that saber throw would have best been implemented somewhat like it is in SP. Basically you throw it, but can't guide it, and it would only go as far as someone could reasonably throw it. Then instead of coming back to you, you had to force pull it back to you. To me, this would be more like the movies, where I think the throw does not involve the Force, but getting it back might. From an MP perspective, this could leave you vulnerable for quite a while, and so you'd have to be very selective when you use it.

But leaving it out is an option too :)

As for Rage, I always thought it was a reasonable Force power, and there are places in the movie where one could consider it in use. But leaving it out is also supported by what you have stated.

Did I miss the mention of whether you mod is available for download??

Tosh_UK
03-27-2003, 11:11 AM
Darth vader throws his saber at Luke in ROTJ on the Death Star II. He then uses the force to retrieve it
correct was going to say this

Rage well not talking from a fanboy look at things but i see so many players trying to keep up with them and cause dmg.. well what i can say is good luck (talking about CTF games) best way to defeat a rage person running with the flag... Pull and Pull again and again, if the cry pull hore well i see rage as a hore way of running a flag. so all you have to do is keep then from getting away.. dont try and kill them until rage has worn off... Easy meat :p

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-27-2003, 11:19 AM
Download link is at the top of this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94813).

Be aware that this is still Beta - there are still a few things left to sort out. The main one being problems when you change class in game - ranging from not working properly to causing the server to crash...

(Classes are linked to particular models. So changing class actually means changing to a model with a different associated class...)

I will be fixing all this for the final release. But if you going to try the current beta and you want to change class, rejoin the game to do so. (Or restart if your playing solo with bots)

Other known issues in this beta that I'm sorting for the main release:

* Initial force power for Jedi's is too low.
* Mandalorians have too much jetpack fuel.
* Detpacks don't get removed at beginning of rounds
* Ammo count is sometimes shown wrong

And I'm currently writing up a proper manual. But I think most stuff is easy enough to pick up by just playing...

Feel free to have a go :)

RpTheHotrod
03-27-2003, 11:33 AM
I was reading an article about where they got the saber throw idea for jk2...and it was from when Vader throws his saber at luke. Notice the saber is still "out" when it's thrown. Normal sabers "go back in" when the hand lets go.

Saber throw IS in the movies....just FYI. Leaving it out prety much contradicts the purpose of the mod. ;) Saber throw is really nothing to be afraid of anyway (unless they are good with it)...why remove it?

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-27-2003, 11:50 AM
The initial reason I took out Saber Throw was because I wanted a different function mapped to the right mouse button (Saber Defense.)
Now, of course, I could allow the user to assign a different key to Saber Throw, and therefore still have it in, but I would not only dispute whether the Vader-throw-saber-at-Luke incident is actually a saber throw in the MP game sense, but also - as you say - it's not really a nessesary game feature in the first place.

And let's not forget this is ONE instance in 5 movies!! When I see people flinging their saber out every few seconds in MP games, the LAST thing I think is 'Oh yeah, this is JUST like the movies!!'

If I were to even think about putting it back in, it would defiently be a modified version, more like what Prime described (incidently, that also sounds like what Razor is doing for MotF...). But at the moment, I really don't see the need to waste time doing this. The gameplay - as far as I'm concerned - doesn't suffer, and as far as I'm concerned, it IS indeed more movie-realistic without it in...

Prime
03-27-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
Download link is at the top of this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94813).

Feel free to have a go :) I will :)

As for saber throw, we certainly see Vader physically throw the saber, but I don't believe that the Force was involved. In either case, I think that you are right that saber throw is extremely overused because it is so easy and effective, and has few drawbacks. All things being equal, I'd rather have it taken out than left in in its current form.

razorace
03-27-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
[B]I understand the concept of dark Jedi using their anger to help them in battle. I just don't see any direct evidence of the 'Rage' force power as seen in MP being used in the movies...

I totally disagree. All the Dark Jedi seem to use negative emotions in their fighting. Their taunting could be for their own benifit (boost their own anger).

Ep. V - Luke v. Vader. Vader is as cool as a cucumber. IMO - No Rage.

Actually at the end of the fight, when Vader goes on the offensive. He's obviously drawing on his anger.

Don't have time to point out anything else.

Anyway, we've already discussed the whole saber throw issue, here (http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=449).

Tosh_UK
03-27-2003, 12:41 PM
The good thing about saber throw is the fan boy trying to look cool walking up to you with saber off.. here have this

Prime
03-27-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Tosh_UK
The good thing about saber throw is the fan boy trying to look cool walking up to you with saber off.. here have this You're right. It's worth leaving in just for that!

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-27-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by razorace
I totally disagree. All the Dark Jedi seem to use negative emotions in their fighting. Their taunting could be for their own benifit (boost their own anger).

Actually at the end of the fight, when Vader goes on the offensive. He's obviously drawing on his anger.

lol - how did I know you were going to say that? ;)

Razor, if you had read my point properly, you would see that I don't doubt that Dark Jedi's draw their power from negative emotion...
Light Jedi's draw on emotions of Calm and Peace. So surely we should have a Force Peace button! The Jedi could stick up two fingers and offer you a daisy-chain necklace!

And when Darth Vader 'apparently' uses Rage in Ep.V - you mean that bit where he turns red, suddenly becomes invincible and his saber attacks are suddenly twice as fast?! Oh yeah - stupid me! How could I have missed that?! :rolleyes:

Why can't you make any distinction between the emotional flow of a particular movie scene and the mechanics of the fight?!

Yet again Razor, you simply ignore any valid points I make. Why don't you just state the real reason your against the removal of things like Saber Throw or Rage. Movie Realism has nothing to do with it...

...you just don't think anything should be taken out of the basic MP game - end of story...

It would save a lot of wasted discussion if you just said that in the first place! I could come up with whole pages of valid reasons why certain powers should be taken out - and you'd just ignore them all!

razorace
03-27-2003, 01:34 PM
I'm just pointing out that Rage and Saber Throw has some movie basis. They've obviously aren't very faithful to the movies. :) Anyway, both need to retooled (and not totally removed) to be truer to the movies.

For example, Rage doesn't make you invicinible or glow red lightning but it does seem to boost your strength and speed. The emotional flow of the characters IS relavent to the fight. I'm not sure quite how we can emulate that yet, but it is doable. Personally, I kind of like a "get mad" skill (I've called it "Call on the Dark Side") that boosts your abilities but at a serious price. :)

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-27-2003, 01:47 PM
Razor,

Well, this does make a pleasent change. At least you've given my arguments some credit! Kudos to you my man!

I'm certainly not against having some kind of ability which draws on dark power that isn't so 'extreme' as force rage - like you say...

The thing is though, I would say that any of the force powers you see Jedi use in the films are actually examples of using positive or negative emotions.

Powers like Grip and Lightining directly hurt and damage somebody - which is strictly forbidden for light jedi (as Yoda says - the force is for knowlwdge and defense, never for attack) because it's directly tapping into negative emotions.

And dark jedi can't use - say - Force Heal because that requires letting go of your feelings of hate and aggression...

So - my overall point is - I don't think you nessesarily need specific angry or peaceful force powers, because this is basic part of all powers. It's a fundemental part of being either a dark or light jedi...

But again, I have no problem with some kind of 'angry' button which - I donno - made your attacks slightly more damaging, but left your defense slightly more open or something - in principle anyway.

But one thing I would say is that I wouldn't see this is as an exclusively Dark Jedi ability. From my earlier post, I think overall, it's actually Light Jedi that have more often appeared to get noticably wound up while saber fighting. I would see this as a neutral trait...

Azymn
03-27-2003, 03:23 PM
On rage and the dark side, just for the record:

From:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthmaul/index.html

"Kenobi, enraged, attacked Maul. This barrage was deflected by Maul who used Obi-Wan's touching of the dark side as a conduit for a Force attack; using the Force, Maul pushed Obi-Wan into a deep mining pit."

And from:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/obiwankenobi/index.html

"The dark warrior, Darth Maul, used his incredible speed, rage and his double-ended lightsaber to fend off both Jedi."

And from:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/lukeskywalker/index.html

"There, the Emperor planned to turn Luke to the dark side by goading his hatred and forcing the young Jedi to kill his father, thus sealing his future as the Emperor's student. The Emperor almost succeeded; in a fit of rage, Luke viciously wounded Vader. His thoughts and feelings recollected, Skywalker refused the Emperor's promised power. The Emperor, enraged, used the dark side to cast deadly lightning at the young Jedi."

So i have some time on my hands here at work. :)

And on topic...true, Light Jedi can just absorb lightning...but that's if they choose to select Absorb as a power. Now they have the option of trying to block it manually with their saber.
On the other hand, Dark Jedi won't usually be equipped with Force Absorb. So the ONLY real defense they have against Lightning is their saber.

EDIT:
Force Heal intuitively seems like Lightside power, but this link says something interesting about it:
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/exarkun/index.html

"There, ancient Sith spirits tried Kun's resolve. His body was crushed in a cave-in of tons of rocks, and Kun could not call upon the Force to help himself. Yet, the dark side offered what the Force couldn't. By giving into his fear and rage, Kun was able to heal himself and clear the obstacles. He emerged from the caverns transformed, fueled by the dark side of the Force."

That's Exar Kun, Sith Lord, who called on the dark side to heal himself because the "Force" couldn't??? Anyone have some insight on this one?

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-27-2003, 03:44 PM
Azymnn,

My, you have been busy! :)

Notice the last bit of the last quote:

The Emperor, enraged, used the dark side to cast deadly lightning at the young Jedi.". Here, rage is used for a quite seperate power - lightning.

I guess this demonstrates the crux of my point:

I don't see 'Rage' as something a Dark Jedi just turns on or off as a seperate force power.
Rage and hate and anger are basic emotions and drives that Dark Jedi use for ALL their powers. These emotions are CONSTANT for the Dark Jedi. They purposefully cultivate and harness these feelings. Any time a Dark Jedi is winning over an opponent, they are obviously full of hate and anger. In game terms, it's actually who's playing the game better...!

Conversely, a light Jedi's power comes from constantly keeping these emotions in check. As they do, they gain access to different powers that the Dark Jedi cannot harness.
Whenever a Light Jedi manages to get pushed over by a Dark Jedi's push attack, you can blame it on the fact that the Light Jedi wasn't properly controlling his feelings.

But in the end, these are all conceptual ideas which don't nessesarily HAVE to have any direct equivalent force power for you to activate with a button on your keyboard...!

Deadly Geezer
03-27-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

Ep. IV: Vader v OB1 - Slow, methodical combat. Both looked as calm as eac-other. IMO - No Rage
hardly conclusive, since Vader has no face and we have no way of otherwise seeing "how he feels" unless someone else tells us.
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

Ep. V - Luke v. Vader. Vader is as cool as a cucumber. IMO - No Rage. Vader gets pissed off at two points, and at both, Luke is on the defensive. When Luke stings him, Vader has decided enough is enough and (making plenty of "Rrrrrr!" sounds) he ends the duel in 2 seconds.
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
Ep. VI. Luke v. Vader. Again, Vader is as cool as a cucumber.
"You are unwise to LOWER YOUR DEFENSES!" Bshhhhh ZZZZ WOW ZZ SHRAAAAAACK SKT SKT SKT, SKTTTTTTTTTTTT, BZT!
Sounds angry to me.
Although I thought Vader lost on purpose as it were.
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
Ep. I Darth Maul v. Qui-Gon & OB1: The only time anybody is looking like he's getting actually 'angry' is OB1 near the end
Have you ever actually seen the character Darth Maul? He looks like an inferno of freshly squeezed anger. Almost any lore referring to Maul talks about rage and anger or hate. Maul's early lore states one time he got so angry at Darth Sidious he nearly killed him in lightsaber combat. This would be impossible if anger was not boosting his combat skills.
Maul's "Sith Intensity" in combat is also how he is a superior fighter to both Obi Wan and Qui Gon.
On a side note, when Obi Wan got angry, he briefly touched the Dark Side. This conduit allowed Maul to use a force attack, which was when he shoved him over the edge.
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
Proper Dark Jedi though, use their anger - sure - but it's CONTROLLED anger. Not suddenly moving twice as fast and swinging the saber round like they just downed a bag of sugar!!
Actually yes it is. When discussing Mace Windu's fighting style, it is noted that he approaches but is careful to never cross into Sith Intensity. His style depends on emotion, but he keeps his anger just below the point of explosion. It is extremely dangerous, and one of the reasons his style is almost never used by other Jedi.
When Sith fight like a Sith, they are a burning ocean of malice. They can't necessarily control themselves.

I'm not trying to convince you to put Rage into your mod, only to show you how it exists in the movies.

razorace
03-27-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk
Well, this does make a pleasent change. At least you've given my arguments some credit! Kudos to you my man!
Nah, you're just assuming my disagreement with your Stays/Gone policy on the game's Force powers as "not listening to your arguement".

The thing is though, I would say that any of the force powers you see Jedi use in the films are actually examples of using positive or negative emotions.
See, a meta-view of the Force always comes into the discussion. :D

So - my overall point is - I don't think you nessesarily need specific angry or peaceful force powers, because this is basic part of all powers. It's a fundemental part of being either a dark or light jedi...
I'm not sure about this one. Dark Siders have been shown to do or at least attempt "Light Side" powers, specifically "Force Heal" (In some of the KOTOR Comics and Vader in the movie novels). But it's very difficult to tell using onscreen references since we don't know how well the "normal" side can use its powers. We know that Vader couldn't heal himself with the Dark Side but we have no clue how well a Light Sider can heal himself. Same for Lightning, Dark Siders can do it but we have no clue how well a Light Sider could do Lightning...if at all.

Personally, I believe your emotional/mental is your conduit to a certain side of the Force and that connection grants you powers. When using negative emotions makes it easy to do negative behavior/Force, and visa versa. Doing something against the "nature" of the emotion is difficult just like doing something that goes against your own nature/emotional state is difficult.

Emon
03-28-2003, 12:21 AM
Damn thread hijackers...

On the topic of this thread, yes, that's possible, but might screw up the gameplay a little, since blocking it could become so easy.

What would be cooler is a grip/lighting combo effect. In SP, you can hold down level 2 lightning and level 3 grip to produce exactly the effect seen in Episode II. I don't see why you couldn't rework lightning to be grip with an EFX file (crude example).

razorace
03-28-2003, 03:53 AM
I 'm pretty sure a EFX hack wouldn't work. To do that sort of change would require some gameplay code work.

RenegadeOfPhunk
03-28-2003, 04:30 AM
As Emon says, we are indeed thread hijacking.

So I'm gonna put down my gun, step out of the car and and let this thread carry on down the highway...

I've started a new thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95694) for us to continue the debate if you like...

Kurgan
03-30-2003, 10:00 AM
Bah, almost none of the Force powers in the movies are accurately reflected in the games... except maybe Speed and Jump, Push, etc.

Grip is a slow choke, not a hovering thing.

Luke uses Rage on Vader, and Vader uses it on Luke in Bespin, and Obi-Wan uses it on Maul in ANH. But of course it doesn't look the same and doesn't have the same down to 1 health thing.

etc etc.

Protection would be what allowed the Jedi to survive what would have killed lesser mortals (getting rammed by a huge arena monster, blasted by ship guns/rockets, falling a great distance, etc.).

Vader throws his saber in ROTJ, 'nuff said. ; )

Yoda "Absorbs" Dooku's lightning in AOTC.

I'll give you drain, so far we haven't seen it used. Its the only non-movie power in JK2, actually.

sleepyb3ar
04-04-2003, 05:44 AM
Personally, i don't think u can use the force to force a rage. its purely the person's feelings at that time.