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View Full Version : Is white culture stealing black culture?


ShockV1.89
03-25-2003, 11:34 PM
Ok, it seems like a stupid question to ask... but there's a discussion at my college tomorrow night, and I'm considering going.

It seems as though it's aiming at the music industry, as it displayed pictures of Eminem and Justin Timberlake on the flyer. However, it may spill over into other parts of "culture." It's run by an amateur rap and rhyme club thats predominatley black, so I expect to hear a alot of passion and forceful arguments from them.

I have a stance on it, but first, I'd like to see what your opinions are. Discuss. Analyze. Give me ammo. :D

[edit: Ok, I'm retarded. mods, could you maybe move this to the Senate Chambers? Thankys.. :p

XERXES
03-25-2003, 11:43 PM
i think its sad that "ghetto" ebonics...bling bling and all that mess is considered culture. It makes me sick.

obi
03-25-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by XERXES
i think its sad that "ghetto" ebonics...bling bling and all that mess is considered culture. It makes me sick.

Agreed.

Rap is not Black Culture. Rap is Rap. It's like saying the song "Sweet Home Alabama" is southern culture.

Anyway, moved at your request ;)

Rogue Nine
03-25-2003, 11:49 PM
I agree.

TheHobGoblin
03-26-2003, 12:09 AM
What would the white culture have to take from the balck culture.... ummm.... I'll be back in a few millinias. I don't mean they don't have anything I'm saying what they have we don't have. I love debates :p

[RAA]-=Chi3f=-
03-26-2003, 12:16 AM
my 2 pesos...



If a prof. gave me that assignment, I'd be thrown out of school after they read my paper. :D

It's a lot more complicated than "one group staling another groups culture" What about latins listening to rap? And J-Lo (Je-llo, Jenny from the block, whatever) marrying Puff Daddy and now Ben Aflek duck? Does that mean that a black person that has a high paying job is an OREO (black on the outside, white on the inside)?

My point is is that just because r&b and hip-hop is popular right now, doesn't mean white culture is turning to black culture.

SkinWalker
03-26-2003, 12:17 AM
It's interesting to note that the same thing happened with Jazz and Blues. In the 1920's, Jazz became very popular among black society. Young whites began to listen to this music, much to the chagrin of their families.

Today, Jazz is internationally accepted as a true American art form, to which Rap has it's roots.

FunClown
03-26-2003, 08:23 AM
I believe white people who try to act like black people are commonly referred to as white trash.

However, Vanilla Ice was one of the first mainstream rappers if not the first and he was White.

However, Rap has been around for a long time and so why wouldn't white people start to get more involved. Its just like Jazz.

I don't think however, you can steal another's culture but rather mimic it or make it your own. Thats probably most important since thats what the whole debates about.

EG. I saw on TV a while ago an African tribe who was taken over by Germans and forced them to live as Germans with the clothes and everything. Once the German oppressors left, they kept the German culture even though it gave them grief. I don't think the African tribe stole German culture. Because of the [strong] German influence the culture had changed though the African tribe remembered the 'old ways' as they were described.

Lynk Former
03-26-2003, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by XERXES
i think its sad that "ghetto" ebonics...bling bling and all that mess is considered culture. It makes me sick.

Who are you to say what it is or isn't? Yeah It may sound a little silly but so does the way chinese sounds if you aren't used to it...



I think that since the world is more mixed now than it was back in the OLD days there will be a mix of cultures, we are becoming more deverse and races are mixed in more, this is a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because we can then learn more about eachothers race and roots. It's also a bad thing because it cause much conflict...

Luc Solar
03-26-2003, 09:15 AM
Ummm... how does one steal something from you by imitating your ways?

You still got it, yes? :confused:

Isn't the problem here simply petty people?

"Hey! You can't say 'dawg' cause that's reserved solely for me and my boyz in da hood, 'aight?"


PS. What's "dawg" :o Did I just make that up or what?

XERXES
03-26-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Lynk Former
Who are you to say what it is or isn't? Yeah It may sound a little silly but so does the way chinese sounds if you aren't used to it...
who are you to tell me i cant state my ****ing opinion.

Chinese is a language, speaking ghetto is not.

SkinWalker
03-26-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Ok, it seems like a stupid question to ask... but there's a discussion at my college tomorrow night, and I'm considering going.

Do let us know how tonight's discussion goes. I'm an Anthropology student, so I've an interest in that sort of thing.

Lynk Former
03-27-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by XERXES
who are you to tell me i cant state my ****ing opinion.

Chinese is a language, speaking ghetto is not.

No need to swear now. So by your opinion I can't say "g'day"?

ET Warrior
03-27-2003, 03:38 AM
It's not that you can't say it, he's just saying you can't say g'day is a part of your culture....it's just slang or accent related.

Lynk Former
03-27-2003, 03:47 AM
but it is, g'day the idea of 'mateship', etc is a VERY australian thing and is strong within Australian culture. The use of colloquialisms is part of Australian culture. Perhaps it's hard for people outside of the culture to understand but it is and you can either tolerate it or just bitch about something that doesn't matter that much.

If they want to say dog as 'dawg' they can. It's the same thing just written with their accent in mind.

BigTeddyPaul
03-27-2003, 03:50 AM
Well well well.

Try not to be a prick and I am not a racist. These thoughts in no way represent those of LF or any of its sponsers.

Elvis Presely was so radical and new and "sinful" because back in the day he was the only white guy that could sing and "dance" like a black guy. Marshall is just a messed up kid. I forbid my sister to listen to any of his music. I will just not allow it into my house. I don't mind if she listens to Nelley or Ja Rule or even Snoop (some of them). I even listen to them sometime. Black rap and hate rap are two different things to me. She can listen to Vanilla Ice anytime she wants because that is just funny.

White people want to be black people. I don't know why. Ever seen bodybuilders? They are sooooo dark that they look black. Aside from the abnormal muscles it just freaks me out about how not white they look.

I took a course in college (Humanities 134: An insight into Black America) and it was a really revealing class to me. It was pretty werid because I was the only white student out of about 20 in there and I was almost always called upon to answer questions based on my "unique" perception. I take that back the teacher was also white. Ironic ain't it. A white teacher teching black humanities. There would have been more people there but the credits are not transferable to many colleges (GO COMMUNITY CHEAPO COLLEGE!) but I wanted to take it anyways. I remember one time I got into a heap of trouble for bringing up the subject of ******. My friend of 4 years also went to that community college and he was talking to a buddy on the phone and he kept calling him a ****** and a queer which was not true at all but I asked the question in class why was this right. If I as a white person said these things I would be cut or threatened or something but he as a black man it is all cool. I was told it was acceptable for Asteway to say this because he was black and had earned the right to call people this. I posed the question then why it was alright for a young woman in the class to call my a cracker because I said the word ****** in class and had not directed it toward anyone. I said, "Shouldn't I be the only one, using your own rules, to be allowed to say cracker since I earned it." The lady apologized to me and just said she hates when white people say ******. She feels that is a word that black people own and no one else.

When it concers music I know most people (from my class) stated that rap is theirs just like Blues was oohh so long ago. This time they would not let it go. The reason for their apparent ownership was because it is a part of their culture and The Man was always bringing them down and taking the best part of their culture.

Going more into culture Eubonics is a language and if people want to speak it by all means do. I however will not tolerate it when someone comes up to me and speaks stupidly (IMHO). If you cannot speak English properly or atleast attempt to then I will brand you as an idiot and not worth my time. If someone goes in for a job interview and speaks Eubonics because he is black the odds are he will not be hired because he cannot have improper English being spoken to unknowing customers. Same with turning in papers. If anyone turns in a papre which is not worder correctyl it is an F IMHO. I don't mind having a piece of cultural pride but at the same time you have to conform to your surroundings. It does not pay to be ignorant.

I hope this is semi-ontopic.

BigTeddyPaul

FunClown
03-27-2003, 09:15 AM
I have a black friend. You can call him ******, jiggaboo, whatever you like and I'm white. But it is true, generally a white person can not call a black person a ****** but black people can. That seems a bit racist however, I'm only using the term racist because I don't know the proper word for this situation.

I don't believe its racist by definition.

ZBomber
03-27-2003, 10:17 AM
What you talkin bout dog, can't a white dude talk ghetto?


:p

Yeh, I guess, I don't know. All of the stuff above is all I know about Ghetto :p

griff38
03-27-2003, 10:43 AM
I don't think white and blacks can STEAL culture. If someone moves here from an other country, and they learn the language, wear the local clothes and eat local food. Have they stolen the culture?

Nah, they just want to belong and to get along.
I personally love black American culture.

It's been my experience that most blacks don't mind if you like something they do and whites of course love blacks who act like white people.


:)

ZBomber
03-27-2003, 10:52 AM
Well, at my current school, the only black kids there don't speak Ghetto, so I don't know any of it. :D

SkinWalker
03-27-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by BigTeddyPaul
If anyone turns in a papre which is not worder correctyl it is an F IMHO.

:p LMFAO!

Sorry... you made VERY good points, but I couldn't help but notice that line!

I think that young white people have a long history of imitating blacks as a part of protest. The imitation of blacks during the Jazz and blues era also coincided with protests for gender and racial equality.

One of the more prevelant protest songs of the Jazz era was Billy Holiday's Strange Fruit (Louis Armstrong's Black and Blue was the first). Holiday was encouraged by a white college professor who was dismayed at the lynchings that ocurred in America during that period. Strange Fruit refers to the bodies of blacks hanging from trees.

The song was an instant success and affected whites as well as, and perhaps more so, than blacks. Blacks already knew what was going on with lynchings... many whites did not.

Today's white imitators may also be protesting ....

C'jais
03-27-2003, 11:48 AM
Is there such a thing as "stealing" culture? I mean, we all shared the same culture a few million years ago, right? :p

No really, if people are copying your traditions, isn't it time to be proud? I know there's a difference between choking down American culture on innocent arabs and letting arabs come to the states of their own volition, but I always thought it was good when people shared instead of hoarded culture. Brings people togevva, y'know?

As for "******", that word exists in my language as well (neger). I'm perfectly aware that it's a very sensitive issue over there, but wouldn't it only be sensible to ban the word completely? Otherwise, some very confused white teenagers are going to grow up with their black friends who can use "******" all they want, but they can't.

I don't think you can be proud of what you are. It's only reasonable to be proud of what you've done, but it's a stroke of fortune that made you American by birth. You had nothing to do with that, and no control over it. For the love of God, don't be "proud" to be white, arab, black, European or hindu. Be proud that you were able to get into the college you wanted. Be proud of getting that good job. Be proud of being human, until we encounter aliens.

SkinWalker
03-27-2003, 11:50 AM
Well said, my friend.

I will truly have to refer back to this statement in future discussions.

ShockV1.89
03-27-2003, 12:05 PM
Very nicely said, 'Jais.

Well, I attended this "discussion" well prepared. I had even taken some quotes from this board and intended to use them in my arguments.

However, this "discussion" turned out to be little more than an organized rant by several angry black supremists. They stated things like "black culture is very precious to the black people." and "once the white culture starts acting black, black people lose their identity." Of course, to that I would have responded by saying that one should be identified by their own individual actions, and not by being proud of how many times 50-Cent got shot.

Unfortunatley, there was really no room for me to respond to this, because each person got one response. I stated (had it prepared)

"The way I see it, African Americans, as a people, have fought long and hard to obtain proper integration, and although it hasnt completely been achieved, it has taken huge strides from it's original 'Seperate but Inequal' status. But the idea that black culture is reserved solely for blacks flys right in the face of proper integration. With integration of people comes integration of culture. It's natural. This is the way of America, and it always has been."

To this, several people around me nodded in agreement. But the hosts, dressed in their black leather and panther shirts (a statement in itself) simply snorted and looked at the ceiling, gave me dirty looks, or muttered things to each other as they looked at me.

What a damn waste of my time. :mad:

SkinWalker
03-27-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89

What a damn waste of my time. :mad:

Don't think that for a minute. I thought your statement was well thought out and informative, I'm sure there were those present that felt the same way. I'm also sure that you were not the only person to notice the extremist tendancies of the opponents to that idea. These notions affect people in both positive and negative ways.

BigTeddyPaul
03-27-2003, 02:06 PM
3 AM can kill your sentences.

The one thing I do not get is the African American aspect. A lot of black people (personal experience) want to be called African American if they live in the States. I never got this. They are American but who cares? My buddy Asteway actually comes from Ethiopia so he made a point not to be called an African American. he just said he lives here for the white girls. I do not go around as a white person countering everyone with the fact that I am Slovakian American because I am not. I am American period. Do my ancestors come from Slovakia? Yes they do but I do not feel the need to express that. MY buddy, who is white, was born in Africa becuase his parents were missionaries. One day we took a survey and he put down African American because that is in fact what he was. When the surveyor saw this he told him to change it to caucassion. Mike was pretty annoyed with the fact that as a true African American he could not put this down but the surveyor was adamant about leaving that section for black people only. I raised the question of why didn't it say black then. The surveyor said that he had had black people refuse to take the survey before based solely on this reason. WOW.

I have only been to one good speaking session based on blackness. Even then it wasn't totally that great but it was worth my time. Instead of condeming white people for their oppression he said that as a whole black people have to overcome obstacles and quit blaming their sociatal problems on others and take their own actions to heart. Did you know their is a Black Anthem. I didn't know as a white person if I was "allowed" to partake in that event but I did.

BigTeddyPaul

SkinWalker
03-27-2003, 04:08 PM
This is why the American Anthropological Association made a statement a few years back that basically stated that "race" is not biologically definable.

Ethnicity, on the other hand, is chosen by the individual. One identifies with an ethnicity based on the languages, religions, and cultural heritages that are considered common.

I think it is perfectly acceptable for blacks to identify with African heritage and refer to themselves as "African-American." I know plenty of families that identify with Italian, Irish, Scottish and Jewish heritages (very strongly in some cases) even though they are many generations removed from those countries.

BigTeddyPaul
03-27-2003, 08:58 PM
True I just would not want everyone going around saying Italian-American or English-American. Are you white? Say yes. Are you black? Say yes.

BigTeddyPaul

El Sitherino
03-27-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by SkinWalker
It's interesting to note that the same thing happened with Jazz and Blues. In the 1920's, Jazz became very popular among black society. Young whites began to listen to this music, much to the chagrin of their families.

Today, Jazz is internationally accepted as a true American art form, to which Rap has it's roots. actually the styling of blues is derived from the old African Tribal Death music. hmm seems funny its blues and the music comes from the african burial music. anyways. just to point out that is cultural theft persay. but whatever as for rap thats not black culture thats pop culture.

XERXES
03-27-2003, 09:21 PM
im quoting from a thread in another message board.



quote:
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Originally posted by hawaiinryan03

If the blacks in the US continue to use ebonics and not use regular American english then they should pay the consequences.

Dont complain when you cant get a high paying job. No boss is gonna hire you when you greet him with "Whatup Ngga...Fo Shizzle...bout to get my werk on...when mah skrilla come in so I can cop sum Ur Force Ones".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Voland

Do you honestly think that a black guy walks into a job interview and says "HOLLA AT A NGGA, WHERE THE WHITE WOMEN AT"?
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El Sitherino
03-27-2003, 09:21 PM
also i would like to say that the first rap style song was done by blondie back in the seventies and as you of the older crowd know blondie was definately white.