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Bacon00
04-02-2003, 11:11 PM
Don't follow them. It's as simple as that. Go hack and slash all the idiots standing around doing the emote crap. If/when you get booted, go to another server. Do it again.

If more and more people start doing this, all the RPG crap will die away. The newbies who whine will either leave or adapt.

I hate that part of JK2 - you can't just go on and start whoring peeps. You gotta bow, turn your saber off, acknowledge that they aren't ready yet, bow again, etc. etc. etc. I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

When JK3 is released, I'm killing anybody and everybody.

End of story.

Mandalorian54
04-02-2003, 11:27 PM
lol good call.


Well unless your in a clan you won't have to worry about that, and I doubt you'll be able to take on whole clans.

So unfortunatly you'll just have to put up with it's existance. But I'm all for ridding the pathetic kid servers of RPG crap.:p

But not many of them do that anyway.

Mabee you should start a clan dedicated to screwing over other clans and thier crappy anoying protocalls.

Good luck.

As for me, I don't mind a little noble bow now and then. And when your in a clan, it's a little different. But good luck riding the world of bad rubish.

Prime
04-02-2003, 11:37 PM
I pray to all that is holy that KOTOR and Galaxies will rid us of this foolishness. But, alas, it seems too much to hope for.

Most a pity.

Mandalorian54
04-02-2003, 11:43 PM
I pray to all that is holy that KOTOR and Galaxies will rid us of this foolishness. But, alas, it seems too much to hope for.

Most a pity.

I don't understand :confused: How can Kotor rid JKIII of RPG aspects?

Jed
04-03-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Bacon00
Don't follow them. It's as simple as that. Go hack and slash all the idiots standing around doing the emote crap. If/when you get booted, go to another server. Do it again.

If more and more people start doing this, all the RPG crap will die away.

What a mature attitude. Sir, I salute you. http://www.themanipulation.com/bsflag.gif *salutes*

The newbies who whine will either leave or adapt.

Newbies? Excuse me sir, but if you're going in there killing everyone with no rhyme or reason, it appears that you're acting sort of newb-ish.


I hate that part of JK2 - you can't just go on and start whoring peeps. You gotta bow, turn your saber off, acknowledge that they aren't ready yet, bow again, etc. etc. etc. I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

Whoring peeps is the way you like to play? Jeez, I don't think that's the point of the game...it may be in an FFA, but if you're dueling, then by all means no. Who respects an opponent who comes in and slashes the living crap out of everyone?

When JK3 is released, I'm killing anybody and everybody.

What name will you be playing under? I'd like to ban you in advance from any servers I run.

:rolleyes:

Deadly Geezer
04-03-2003, 12:23 AM
I agree 100%, I hate this repeated bow crap. When you're in a duel there's a period where nothing happens; when that's over I like to rush and attack.
I fight more people than I'd like who bow, and then I don't bow in return, so they sit there with their saber off while I run at them from about 20 feet away and start hitting them. Then they whine about laming.
So the fact that we were in a duel, and I ran at you form some distance away with my lightsaber on wasn't a clue that I was going to try to hit you?

If I run a server, people are going to have to bow to each other every time someone gets hit. If a player takes falling damage during a duel, the server will bow to both duelers and ask if he should switch to a different map. Regardless of the outcome, all three will bow to each other, one at a time to ensure that everyone is ready. Then the duelers will re-bow. When someone's shields run out, both players must bow. If you hit someone in the back, you must bow to the opponent and anyone who was watching the duel. Then you bow to the person you hit again. Then both players bow to each other. Bow me.

Mandalorian54
04-03-2003, 12:40 AM
Newbies? Excuse me sir, but if you're going in there killing everyone with no rhyme or reason, it appears that you're acting sort of newb-ish.

I think your alone in that. I'dd have to side with bacon. Little whiners who complain about other people not RPGing is annoying. If it's not a clan server or a specific RPGing server, then to "F"ing bad for them.

Thiers nothing newbish about shooting in a FPS, that's the whole point. Shoot evrything. The thing that's newbish is missing.

The thing that's newbish is expecting evrything your own way. You don't always get what you want in life, somthing normal people teach thier kids from a young age.

But if you want to RPG go ahead. I don't mind bowing at someone who bows, I don't mind the whole RPG thing, if it's kept where it belongs, that is in RPG specified servers. NOT evrywhere.

If some nerdy little kid feels cool bowing and being a jedi master, fine I'll bow, and then kick his "AHEM!"

But sometimes, if I just don't feel like fulfiling the kids fantasy, I'll chop his little head off when he's not ready. That's what the stupid kids get for killing me when the game just starts and I'm setting my stats, and despite the blue thing right above my head they kill me anyways. But I don't wine about it, I still win! so what's to complain about?

Bacon00
04-03-2003, 12:59 AM
First off, I would like to make it clear that my post is slightly sarcastic, and shouldn't be taken straight up.

Anyway, I'm not about being mature in games. I buy/will buy JK2/3 because it's a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. Not a ROLE PLAYING GAME. If I want to live out my fantasy world, I'll join a clan server or I'll buy an RPG.

If I want to kill other players and do it by any means necessary ("Kick whore!!!"), I'll pick up JK2/3. That's what I bought it for - fast, frantic fragging with a snazzy Star Wars flavor. It's Quake 3 with lightsabers. It's not Final Fantasy with lightsabers.

On clan servers I'll do what they want or I'll just leave. And if the server itself has a rule of "don't hit players with saber off," I'll leave or I'll do what they say. Although it'll be just as bad if 95% of all servers have that rule, which is about how JK2 is right now....

But frankly, I don't care if you want to do your little RPG crap on a public, non-clan server. I DON'T want to do your RPG crap - why should *I* have to do what *YOU* want all the time? There are servers out there for YOU to do the RPG smut, go THERE and do it. On public/generic servers, *I* get to do what *I* want - frag everybody and anybody.. take advantage of them turning their saber off in the middle of a battle like an idiot..

I'll admit to getting really frustrated with CONSTANT kicking, but hey, if they can pull it off that well, they deserve the kills. It's skillful, and it works - that's why people hate it. They are better than you, and they will get more kills.

In the 1.03 patch, I was pretty good at the "backslash" attack. I know that many of you will say that that was "cheap" and "unskillful," but I'd disagree. It took me many, many games to get that move to work every time I tried it. And then many more to do it so that the other guy died.. it took PRACTICE to do that. I was good at it, and I was good at dodging it. Then in 1.04, they basically removed it (it now does minimal damage.. strange for having a white hot blade go through your chest...) because everybody was whining because they kept dying in a QUAKE 3 GAME. Tell me, should they remove the railgun in Quake 3 because a person uses the SAME ATTACK (left clicking) every time? With the backslashing, it was your own fricking fault for dying.. when somebody turns their back to you, RUN AWAY, don't stand there like an idiot and take it. I died FAR fewer times via the backslash when compared to how many people I killed with it - why is that?

If you still want to pre-ban me for wanting to play the game how it's supposed to be played (and how it is designed to be played), my name will be "Bacon_00." I'll give you my IP at the time of launch as well, so you can make sure I won't be coming on. I for one don't want to be playing on your server if it's RPG-Knight 3.

Bacon00
04-03-2003, 01:06 AM
As a side note, I'd like to add that although JK3 is taking an RPG turn, it's more like Deus Ex than a real RPG. It's still all about fast, frantic killing with a lightsaber and guns. There is a place for RPG elements in JK3, but not to the degree I'm sure we'll be seeing it ("OMGWTF YOU HIT ME WITH SABER OFF.. BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN!!!!!")

shock ~ unnamed
04-03-2003, 01:09 AM
Preach on brother Beavis, preach on!

(See Homosexual Ewok was right all along)

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55205

;)

acdcfanbill
04-03-2003, 01:32 AM
i dont under stand why the non-rpg people just dont play the rpg part of it. i dont play jk2 for rpg elements, but i dont go around in mass ffa's all the time either, sure i do occasioally, but im interested in the one on one aspect of it, pitting yourself agaist another player to see who is more masterful at the game. Yes i bow, but i dont requre anyone else to, i bow, turn on saber, get up fight, takes half a second. I think that if there are rpg elements in jk3, let the rpg-ers use them, and everyone else can play however they want, i dont want to eliminate any part of the game that someone may enjoy, just as i dont want to eliminate anypart that allows the ffa ppl to rain death upon all with lightning, grip kicks, dfa maddness. :D

even i do that sometimes, i think that everyone should be able to enjoy jk3 whether you want to ctf, ffa, or duel. so i think that any rpg-like elements RAven puts in are fine, i just wont be using any of them, its not like i want them gone. i mean, take for example, i rarely use a forcefeild since i dont play team games, does that mean i think it should be gone simply because my style of play doesnt use it? of course not.

so in essence, all i have to say, is i hope that everyone who wants to play this game, can do so however they like, and that everyone will allow everyone else to have fun (haha, fat chance). :D good games folks, and i hope to saber you up sometime ;)

RpTheHotrod
04-03-2003, 01:34 AM
I don't personally start going off RPGing...but if I find a server that does...I play along.

Prime
04-03-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
I don't understand :confused: How can Kotor rid JKIII of RPG aspects? Well, maybe I'm a bit off base here, but JO seems to be a very difficult game to turn into a reasonable RPG. For the most part, to me it just lacks the required elements. So why are so many people trying to RPG in JO?

I always thought it was because there really isn't a SW game that lends itself to RPGing. However, KOTOR and Galaxies are designed for roleplaying. So hopefully those that want to RPG in the Star Wars universe will have those games to play, leaving JO and JK3 to the FPSers.

If I was unclear, I ment that those games might rid us of RPG players, not RPG aspects. This, of course, remains to be seen. :)

Prime
04-03-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
I don't personally start going off RPGing...but if I find a server that does...I play along. I usually just leave and try to find a server that is actually playing JO...

Aoshi
04-03-2003, 11:53 AM
well rpging and whatever is completely fine as you paid money for the game and you can play it however the hell you want to. the only thing i have with it is when rpgers come to the gametype i play (full force CTF). and call me dishonorable cause i dont stop to fight them or i selfkill (something apparently that no self-respecting jedi would ever do... how the **** do they know what a 'jedi' would really do?) or i dont use the lightsaber so i'm not a 'real jedi.' i think these people are the most idiotic people in the world and sometimes i even take time of my game to repeatedly kick them to death just for being so goddamn ignorant. i'll admit i used to be a nf duelist and some of the most fun i ever had was pitting myself against a good opponent thereby gaining respect for him and bowing to him next round. these battles of individual skill are great but i dont sit there and pretend i'm some sith lord battling a jedi knight long long ago on some far away planet. it's just when bowing and all that nonsense is taken too far in an internet game that it gets annoying. there is no such thing as 'honor' in a world of anonymity and i hate these children constantly reproaching me for something that they dont even know anything about.

ps.s on a side note i've found that if in a ff guns game some rpg nerd tries to bow to you, a swift rocket to the grill quickly sets his priorities in order. if only sabers are enabled the funniest and greatest thing to shut them up is to use only the stun baton or kicks to kill them. it seems that the majority of rpgers are horrificly bad at this game so when they lose in such a humiliating way they tend to leave. =)

DeTRiTiC-iQ
04-03-2003, 03:26 PM
I got sick of JK2 when I got kicked off every FFA server I joined for... killing people. What's worse is that I was deliberately not taking cheap shots, I was giving people a chance, I let them take the first shot/slash... yet within 5 minutes of joining a server I would get booted.

I'm not even that good a player :(

Ronin_Medjai
04-03-2003, 05:45 PM
I said it in Shocks post Ill say it here.

You people are really getting kinda old with this too :P
These people you speak of , who force you to bow before duels and other crap. Are not RPGers Call them Fanboys instead. True RPers dont do **** like this. Honestly I doubt any of you have been in a Real JKO RPG before even most of the ones that are clearly labeled RPGs are lame containing MGS2 Characters, Matrix Characters, DEmos,Vampires,and all sorts of other crtap that would never be in a SW Universe. True RPGs are so Hard to find ,as well as True RPers. When RPing you forget everything you learned in JKO. Most RPGs are lame stories and just big TFFAs such as the Infamous and Horrid Deathstar RPG *sjudders* I mean thats just a big TFFA with a little (VERY LITTLE) story thrown into it ,and its a horrible way to consider that an RPG. I will be runnig RPG Servers (using RPG Mods) in JK3 and there is no way you can stop me,cause I am running a server specifically for that. Im not running a CTF server or FFA server and forcing you to bow,type I love you and you are my Master 47 times,and then slice you while you are bowing to me,and anything that doent happen my way results in Admin Commands. Thats wrong and that is not an RPG so plz stop confusing the Two.
There is two Types of RPGers
1. RPGer (RolePlaying Gamer) (Me :cool: )
2. RPGer (Really Poor Gamer)
Number two is lame at almost every type of Gametype so he trys to be a whiny *** most of the time when things dont go his way he usually carries a copy of killtracker (killcount about 2 and they were bots :rolleyes: ) and Has studied every chapter in the "How to be a Newb" book that was published in 1998.
On many occasions you will see them with a friend who is *dum dum DAHHHHH* a Server Owner :eek: Yes thats right these lamers now have something noone usually abuses...POWER ..and any time you kill them,say anything bad about them or Pokemon,or pull anything into your hand besides a lightsaber you get banned/kicked/sleepd/slapped/frozen/ (my Favorite) invisible choked. After going into one of these servers I usually flood them to cause lag and then leave (To Flood a Server: hmmm maybe for next episode ;) )

ILR
04-03-2003, 06:05 PM
in FFA.. if your saber is down you deserved to get killed. In a duel you can't exactly spawn camp, and in most cases the spawn points are far enough away from eachother where you have the time to collect yourself. Bacon00... your right when you say too much RPGing in an action game is retarded. I wouldn't worry about it too much. There are plenty of peeps like you who are gonna be in JKIII, so the Force will be balanced... I'm sure :P

zerowingzero
04-03-2003, 06:06 PM
This thread: The birth of *ASC* II

ILR
04-03-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by zerowingzero
This thread: The birth of *ASC* II

Those peeps had cool articles. Tho.. what they suggested was so radically different from my style it didn't really work for me. But intringing none-the-less.

MuRaSaMuNe
04-03-2003, 06:50 PM
RPG? I usually don't no saber as most servers take turns dueling in FFA, there is usually a small FFA battle going on as well. I don't mind waiting for a duel. I never saw an RPG server before :P.

t3rr0r
04-03-2003, 07:07 PM
here's an idea... play vanilla jk2 if you don't want to see emotes. also, how is bowing role playing?

-=DarkZero=-
04-03-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Bacon00
Don't follow them. It's as simple as that. Go hack and slash all the idiots standing around doing the emote crap. If/when you get booted, go to another server. Do it again.

If more and more people start doing this, all the RPG crap will die away. The newbies who whine will either leave or adapt.

I hate that part of JK2 - you can't just go on and start whoring peeps. You gotta bow, turn your saber off, acknowledge that they aren't ready yet, bow again, etc. etc. etc. I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

When JK3 is released, I'm killing anybody and everybody.

End of story.
Oh that sounds just about right,considering killing all the "whiny newbies" remember this you'll be a newb, and that your whining now,so your being a hypocrit,another thing,I don't consider bowing an rpg rule,I consider it A jedi outcast rule,practicly no matter what server you go to your going to end up doing it,and if you do run around and start hacking away at people,And as a matter of fact im one of them....Let's just say I lame the lamers without any thought,So here is a warning,shut the f*** up and quick spittin crap,Or i'll hunt you down, damn lamer.

shock ~ unnamed
04-03-2003, 07:59 PM
*Key music.

[Star Wars text crawl]

A long time ago in a game called Jedi Outcast...

At first people were content to play the game as it was intended: a fast paced first person shooter based in the Star Wars universe.

These were prosperous times, the game was receiving outstanding reviews and players were engrossed in all of the action the game offered.

Then came the dark times, the age of the Fan Boy saber noobies...

At first their motives seemed innocent enough, a little whining about heavy stance, an occasional cry about the DFA, nothing seemed different than the whining most newbies do in any game.

But there was much more to their movement than was apparent.
They began brain washing legions of newbies who had never even played a first person shooter into believing that practice and strategy was futile.

Patches were their means to salvation from the oppression of the dreaded players plaguing them.

At this time they declared a doctrine upon all of JK2 hence to be known as the "Saberist Code".

Any person who actually tried to play the game as it had been for months was to be branded a "Lamer" and voted off any and all public servers.

Bowing and saber off = peace were used to strike fear into the hearts of the newer players. Conform or be banned. With limited options they did as their oppressors wished and hence this became the norm.

During their reign of oppression through incessant whining they brought forth more patches in an attempt to cover their lack of ability and drove many a player away from the game never to be seen again.

Just when all seemed lost came a new hope:

Jedi Knight 3

At first the legion of Fan boy saber noobies thought that their grasp on this new game was firm.

But hiding in the shadows were the players who had been banned and kicked far too many times and were not willing to give into the GAY SIDE of the force.

Armed not with a saber but with two hands they raised both high, extended their middle fingers and told their oppressors to go :) themselves...


[/Star Wars text crawl]

CanadianSurfer
04-03-2003, 08:10 PM
Hahahahahahaha.

Spider AL
04-03-2003, 08:43 PM
Jedi220: Fanboys infest all servers, not just duel servers. And "killing without rhyme or reason" is what the FPS genre is all about. That's not a matter for debate.

Ronin_Medjai: There could never be enough anti-fanboy sentiment. NEVER.

Mobius Berreta.: It would be dishonourable to tell you to learn to spell, so I'll tell you to try to form a coherent sentence with no swear-words in it instead. Bowing is not a "Jedi Outcast rule," there ARE no Jedi Outcast rules. It isn't a rule etched in stone just because you, and the fanboys, say it is.

DeTRiTiC-iQ: I couldn't agree more, you're absolutely, 100% correct in every respect. ;)

t3rr0r: Bowing is RPGing because you're using your player models to enact some sort of ritual, playing your roles, taking yourself and each other too seriously. Bowing is negative because it takes up precious time, when others are always waiting to duel. RPGing on public servers is negative because the RPGing player is taking up a player slot that could be used by someone who really wants to play the game properly, and have fun doing it.

---

Jedi Outcast is about two things, fun, and the score. There, I said it. It's about the score. It's about the number of kills (or team caps) you have at the end of the game. If it wasn't about the kills, there wouldn't be a scoreboard. FPS games are about the score, about having fun, and about having fun trying to get the best score. FPS games are not roleplaying games. They are not designed for roleplaying, and roleplayers who invade public servers are both annoying to regular players and are wasting their own time in the process.

There is nothing stopping RPGers from creating their own servers and their own portion of the community, and indeed some RPGers do that. But the RPGers that don't, are evil, apathetic fanboys. They must be shunned and eradicated, for the good of all. The fanboys give RPGers a bad name, and they drive serious and casual players right up the wall.

-=DarkZero=-
04-03-2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL

Mobius Berreta.: It would be dishonourable to tell you to learn to spell, so I'll tell you to try to form a coherent sentence with no swear-words in it instead. Bowing is not a "Jedi Outcast rule," there ARE no Jedi Outcast rules. It isn't a rule etched in stone just because you, and the fanboys, say it is.
Seriously it doesn't matter if you can spell correctly or not,as long as your trying to get the point across.
Second of all I said "I" consider bowing a rule,I never said it was an actuall rule.
Im just saying almost every single server you go to if you don't bow before a dual starts and just attack,it is considered modding,or laming infact>.>
AND SO YOU WILL BE PUNISHED<.<
But seriously, going into other servers just to kill isn't exactly honourable if you do most of it by laming, Especialy when your using a kill tracker, I and many other's I assume would see that as jack-asstory.
Im not saying that everyone has to follow my word,but it just seems more rightful now, and any way the thread starter can't exactly say that he's gonna run around killing everyone on JK3 because we don't exactly know what the multiplayer is going to be like you know.
Bleh o.O,whatever.

MuRaSaMuNe
04-03-2003, 09:14 PM
Saber Off = Peace is just the revolution of the age-old tradition of Jedi Knight's fists=peace. :D

Lanceo9
04-03-2003, 09:14 PM
i kinda like the bow crap.... but it does get anoying. especialy when people say i am laming because i like blue stance... (your laming because u like yellow) *caugh* lol. i am sorry to say, but i think jk3 will have that crap in it. :explode: :sbdance

shock ~ unnamed
04-03-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Mobius Berreta.

But seriously, going into other servers just to kill isn't exactly honourable if you do most of it by laming, Especialy when your using a kill tracker, I and many other's I assume would see that as jack-asstory




Question:

Any other first person shooters that have the phrase "lamer/laming" tossed around as much as in JK2?

Nope.

Sure "llama" but that's not the same thing.

I don't see people bitching in Counter-Strike "OMGF he lamed me I didn't have my AK-47 out".

I don't see people in standing around in a FFA in games like UT2003 watching two guys fight.

I don't see RTCW players crying "WTF man don't call in an air strike here can't you see my chat box?"



You fan boy saber off = peace idiots are the reason these damn servers are empty, when will you get it through your thick heads?

You make people who bought this game and want to play a cool SW FPS sick and drive them out and away from it with your stupid "codes of honor".

Yes people like YOU, not me, are the types of people who cried for crappy patches.

We "lamers" never bitched about DFA's or back stabs, it was YOU people.

So if you want to get mad about people bashing your stupid "Saber honor Codes" garbage, get used to it. It will get worse and only worse until you either play the game or leave for a true RPG.

shukrallah
04-03-2003, 10:33 PM
i bow down out of respect, if u dont bow and u attack me, i jump out of the way and attack back. its simple, no one needs to be banned. they say u shouldnt attack when the other guys saber iis off because he doesnt have a chance to fight...or if hes typing or something like that...other than that, if there saber is on, ill slash em' :D

if there saber is off and they use force, or kick me something ike that ill slash em' but only if they attack me 1st.

jk2 is not an rpg, it is an action game, so i dont play it like an rpg. thats how i play at the top, i use emotes too sometimes, just because they look cool.

-=DarkZero=-
04-03-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Question:

Any other first person shooters that have the phrase "lamer/laming" tossed around as much as in JK2?

Nope.

Sure "llama" but that's not the same thing.

I don't see people bitching in Counter-Strike "OMGF he lamed me I didn't have my AK-47 out".

I don't see people in standing around in a FFA in games like UT2003 watching two guys fight.

I don't see RTCW players crying "WTF man don't call in an air strike here can't you see my chat box?"



You fan boy saber off = peace idiots are the reason these damn servers are empty, when will you get it through your thick heads?

You make people who bought this game and want to play a cool SW FPS sick and drive them out and away from it with your stupid "codes of honor".

Yes people like YOU, not me, are the types of people who cried for crappy patches.

We "lamers" never bitched about DFA's or back stabs, it was YOU people.

So if you want to get mad about people bashing your stupid "Saber honor Codes" garbage, get used to it. It will get worse and only worse until you either play the game or leave for a true RPG.
Your comparing jk2 to First person shooters,well This is easy for me to answer but may be confusing for you to get.
Look at jk2,most of it now has based it self on sabre's and not blasters.
So new rules were conjered up,Like whats his face said they may not be writen in "stone" but they still stand by many server owners and what not.
Quake 3,unreal tourny,counter strike, all amazing games,the only flaw is none of them(excluding unreal) have swords or anything,and are all based on war exactly,Nothing more, and no matter what they give you an edge,more excitment because the fun in most of these games is the dying,and the only reason why it doesnt get annoying is because thats all the game is about,killing.
JK2 on the other hand has many flaws according to this,I have no problem with what you say that people dont go around in other games saying lamer or whatever,but in jk2 it's going to happen more,and the only reason is is because jk2 has based it self on this so called rp type format.
It wasn't ment to,it just happend.
But seriously I have a problem with people running around saying that they gonna end up killin all of them just for doing something that they believe is mandatory,it makes no sense, and so it being lame gave birth to lamness and so on and so forth.
And thats where I come in, when I hear people saying their going to lame because they don't like something then tough!
MAKE YOUR OWN SERVER AND SET YOUR OWN DAMN RULES IF YOU CAN'T RESPECT OTHER'S CHOICES.
I'll withdraw here considering I am hardly making any sense to any of you...

Rad Blackrose
04-03-2003, 11:40 PM
Alright, this is an origional *ASC*er floating about.

Now while the SC and ASC have taken the backburner of JKII politics, needless to say their ways still remain. However, I believe the main problem of the origional argument was members of the SC filtering to servers they have no relations to, and start kicking people.

Sorry people, but only one group of people should have this access: the admins.

What you people here do not recognize is that the admins pay for the servers, you only pay for the software to play on those servers. That means they (the admins) can set any rule to their hearts desire, and you don't have to play on them. Since the admins pay for said servers, it is a PRIVLEDGE, not a RIGHT to play on a server. This is as much misconception as the music industry having the freedom of speech clause of the First Amendment of the US Constitution backing them when it comes to censorship. Face it: you're not going to win.

However, I am not totally into the RP scene in JKII. Quite frankly, if I ever see an RP scene, I'm going to have my brains against the wall with a exit wound from my head of the size approximated from a 9mm parabellum round.

So, in other words:

If you bow, I will bow just as a sign of readiness. If you don't, I don't care. I just may have to hurt you even more.

You come to a server that I am administrating on and think you can do whatever you please, then you have another thing coming to you. By connecting to the server and hitting JOIN GAME, you are consenting by contract to the server that you will abide by any rules made by said admin or admins. Breaking that contract has repercussions. This is life. Get used to it.

Also, I want to address one last point:

Sure "llama" but that's not the same thing.

I don't see people bitching in Counter-Strike "OMGF he lamed me I didn't have my AK-47 out".

I don't see people in standing around in a FFA in games like UT2003 watching two guys fight.

I don't see RTCW players crying "WTF man don't call in an air strike here can't you see my chat box?"

Your argument is null because of the way the game is construed. CS, UT2003, JKII, and RTCW are FPS. That is where the comparison ends. Look at what we are fighting with, for a moment. Yup, you got that right. Most of the time, it is sabers. Tell me, what other game involves swordplay as heavily as JKII?

Sure, knifing gets you kicks and giggles in CS, but it isn't a quintessential part of it.

I'm not going to comment on the other two because I have not played them.

Face it: people are honor bound. I don't know if it is the addiction to the old samurai movies or what, but they got that mentality in their heads.

Remember ladies and gents, in duels, it is all out. There is no rulebook. Ask any european who has died while accepting a challenge.

EDIT: Sorry, one last thing.

With those who enjoy invoking the saber off=peace rule, I got a few things for you:

1.) Use common sense, if a few saberists are going at it, then don't run right between them and whine.

2.) Offensive force powers count as a saber being active

I'm sure there are a few things I am missing, but it is these two that make me type the following thing:

/name "Mormegil *ASC*"

Bacon00
04-03-2003, 11:48 PM
"Oh that sounds just about right,considering killing all the "whiny newbies" remember this you'll be a newb, and that your whining now,so your being a hypocrit,another thing,I don't consider bowing an rpg rule,I consider it A jedi outcast rule,practicly no matter what server you go to your going to end up doing it,and if you do run around and start hacking away at people,And as a matter of fact im one of them....Let's just say I lame the lamers without any thought,So here is a warning,shut the f*** up and quick spittin crap,Or i'll hunt you down, damn lamer."

Nice use of swear words and insults. Really makes me believe that you're the mature one here, and not I.

Aside from that, I'd disagree - why is bowing and saber-offage a JKO "rule?" Where is this written? Why do I have to follow it? I don't want to follow it... but I should have to because some nerd says that I do? Some nerd that paid the same $50 for the game that I did?

Yeah, sure...

I'm playing the game how I want to play it. This does not involve RPG elements. The way I play the game will not be influenced by you because you want me to "bow" and turn my saber off every 30 seconds.

I'm not expecting you to play like I want you to, why are you expecting me to play the game like you want me to?

Who's being the hypocrite, again?

Oh, and, I was curious... how does being a newbie "again" in JKA going to matter in the slightest? It sounds like saber combat is going to be pretty much the same, just with more moves... I'm pretty sure I won't be as much of a "newbie" as somebody who never played JKO... Right?

RpTheHotrod
04-04-2003, 12:02 AM
I'm gonna state this, ready? Here I go...


I was with SC (Saberist Code) and was chosen to go against an ASC. The "this match will show who will rule" match. I kicked his butt...and SC came out victorious...however, as it went off....it just wasn't even worth it. I dropped the tag, and now I just play. I personally have a "code of conduct" I follow just to respect players...but I'm not "all-SC" anymore. Like I said, if someone wants to RPG, I'll play along, but I'm not going to start it.

If I see someone in FFA without a saber, I won't attack them, unless they abuse it (like saber off mid-fight, or saber off then on quickly for a cheap kill....I'll slaughter those)...but don't go around expecting me to bow to every little healthpack and gun around.



MY SUGGESTION TO LUCAS ARTS:
Add some sort of "gametype" that shows "RPG". That way, if you are joining a FFA-RPG server...RPG away, if you don't....leave/get kicked. If you just join a normal FFA server and people cutt your head off when you bow...it's your own fault for acting like an idiot on a non-RPG server...go join an RPG server.

All in all

RPers will go to RPG servers
Normal players will go to normal servers.

It wouldn't take much programming to do this. No changes at all other than a new name (FFA RPG and FFA would be exactly alike, but people joining would see if the server wants RPing or not)

Jeff 42
04-04-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Sure, knifing gets you kicks and giggles in CS, but it isn't a quintessential part of it.

Sounds like sabering in JO to me. :p

shock ~ unnamed
04-04-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Mobius Berreta. So new rules were conjered up,Like whats his face said they may not be writen in "stone" but they still stand by many server owners and what not.


By who, and what makes you think *everyone should follow them?

I can honestly say without a doubt that the number of better Full Force saber only players in JK2 that are better than I am can be counted on one hand and chances are there will be a few fingers to spare.

But do I go around telling people how to play?
No.
But I'm supposed to listen to some role playing noobie that can't do 1/2 the things I can when I'm barely even trying?




JK2 on the other hand has many flaws according to this,I have no problem with what you say that people dont go around in other games saying lamer or whatever,but in jk2 it's going to happen more,and the only reason is is because jk2 has based it self on this so called rp type format.
It wasn't ment to,it just happend.


Right, it was *not meant to, so if I have no desire to put up with this garbage, you have no right to complain when I don't bow or do some other silly gesture that shows I have "no honor".

It's an action game, that's how I play it.




But seriously I have a problem with people running around saying that they gonna end up killin all of them just for doing something that they believe is mandatory,it makes no sense, and so it being lame gave birth to lamness and so on and so forth.



Next time you play JK2, once in-game do me a favor.
Press "TAB" and tell me what you see.

Scores right?
Wow an action game where scoring is kept tack of, ground breaking concept.

And how do you score?
You kill.

Mind blowing isn't it?




MAKE YOUR OWN SERVER AND SET YOUR OWN DAMN RULES IF YOU CAN'T RESPECT OTHER'S CHOICES.

See my friend, that’s the problem.

You see that server address in my sig?
I provided at my own cost, a dedicated server.

My rules right?

Nope.
People like you come on and constantly bitch and moan about these stupid little role playing rules that I CHOOSE not to have on a server I am PAYING for.

So don't give me any BS about RPG saber noobies staying on their own little admin mod servers and not bothering anyone.

shock ~ unnamed
04-04-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Your argument is null because of the way the game is construed. CS, UT2003, JKII, and RTCW are FPS. That is where the comparison ends. Look at what we are fighting with, for a moment. Yup, you got that right. Most of the time, it is sabers. Tell me, what other game involves swordplay as heavily as JKII?


Yeah.. Ok there.

So whether or not I'm allowed to kill anything that moves in a *FFA all depends on the melee weapon in my hand?

Thanks for clearing that one up.

:rolleyes:



You have been around since day 1 if I'm correct.
So have I.

Do you remember a time when you could filter out the FFA game type in a browser and find 24 people going all out racing for the top spot and racking up kills as fast as humanly possible?

I do.

People played the game for what it was, an action game (I won't use the FPS term so as to not get into that discussion again) with Force powers and sabers.


Now?

Oh you can still find a FFA server with 24 people in it; problem is its 24 RPG saber noobies standing around doing idiotic ballerina emotes.

And please before you or anyone chimes in with the standard "go to another server" comment, like I said in the post above this one, they spread out like roaches to servers like mine where this nonsense is not wanted.

yolkboy
04-04-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Sure, knifing gets you kicks and giggles in CS, but it isn't a quintessential part of it.

Werd :D

Tosh_UK
04-04-2003, 04:42 AM
Bacon00 Don't follow them. It's as simple as that. Go hack and slash all the idiots standing around doing the emote crap. If/when you get booted, go to another server. Do it again.

If more and more people start doing this, all the RPG crap will die away. The newbies who whine will either leave or adapt.

I hate that part of JK2 - you can't just go on and start whoring peeps. You gotta bow, turn your saber off, acknowledge that they aren't ready yet, bow again, etc. etc. etc. I hate it. Absolutely hate it.

When JK3 is released, I'm killing anybody and everybody.

End of story. A men to that

jedi220 Whoring peeps is the way you like to play? Jeez, I don't think that's the point of the game...it may be in an FFA, but if you're dueling, then by all means no. Who respects an opponent who comes in and slashes the living crap out of everyone?

and theres me thinking this game was about killing players?

Spider AL Man i think your Great :)

Mobius Berreta. Your comparing jk2 to First person shooters,well This is easy for me to answer but may be confusing for you to get.
Look at jk2,most of it now has based it self on sabre's and not blasters.
The problem i have with that comment is the fact all the Fanboys nerfed the saber! as they wanted to stand there for 30mins thinking they was sooo good, but the truth was they would of killed each other quicker with a bread stick.



RpTheHotrod
All in all

RPers will go to RPG servers
Normal players will go to normal servers.
if only

The way I play is to score... CtF run get flags or stand and kill flag runners. ffa well as it says kill all thats in front of you. Tffa well same as before but try help out ya team as well. Dule well i say if you want to bow before hand thats ok, just dont ***** about to long and get it over so the next guy can have his turn.


Fan Boys must be killed BUT for god sake only kill them with there saber down :p

Ronin_Medjai
04-04-2003, 06:22 AM
Ok lets all do Ronin a Favor and stop bitching about "RPG Saber Noobies" cause IMO they are a disgrace to the RPG world of JKO.

I never saw an RPG server before :P.

Not many have.

Plz name the "RPG Saber Noobies" to just "Saber Noobies" or something else cause its really pissing me off to try and defned RPers here cause you guys are attacking us sorta. Its like Talking Crap about George Bush but Calling him Bill Clinton in stead of George Bush. Plz call them waht they are and its far from anything with the letters RPG in it.

Aoshi
04-04-2003, 07:26 AM
lol it's not even so much the bowing that gets me (normally). i mean when i go to duel servers (which is kinda rare), i still bow if they do. if they dont then i just start attacking. what really pushed me away from dueling was the people that when we started dueling about 2 mins into it would shut their saber off and ask me how many hp i had left. then they'd wait another min or so and ask me again. then they'd get kinda close to me and shut their saber off (after i told them i still had 100/25) and ask me again and while i was typing they'd try to attack me. this really got on my nerves i mean if you wanna follow some dumb code just follow it, but dont try to exploit your own rules just to say that you actually damaged me.... you know all this talk reminds me of a certain saber only clan that was exactly like most LF people. they had all these gay codes of honor and constantly kicked people from their server for "laming" aka "being better than them." this team constantly lost by humiliating margins and finally decided to wise up and have fun by winning. therefore they all scripted moves and tactics(which although was VERY cheap was nonetheless VERY effective) and went out and rocked the people that used to own them by going against their original ideals. if only some of the fanboys would also be enlightened to learn the game and take advantage of what's given them instead of whining to have everyone else nerfed down to their pathetic level.

Tosh_UK
04-04-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Aoshi
if only some of the fanboys would also be enlightened to learn the game and take advantage of what's given them instead of whining to have everyone else nerfed down to their pathetic level.

That Comment is so True.

Galvocca
04-04-2003, 09:10 AM
i find it funny your all saying that bowing before a duel and not attacking a fighter with his saber off is bullsh*t??? and is RPG???

i thought the whole point of a duel was to see who is the better saberist and has more skill in combat not who is best at killing an unarmed person. am i wrong???

FFA is a totally different thing its every man for himself.

Spider AL
04-04-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Mobius Beretta:

Seriously it doesn't matter if you can spell correctly or not,as long as your trying to get the point across.That presumes the people can decipher your text to the extent necessary to understand the point, if there is one.

Originally posted by Mobius Berreta:

Second of all I said "I" consider bowing a rule,I never said it was an actuall rule.
Im just saying almost every single server you go to if you don't bow before a dual starts and just attack,it is considered modding,or laming infact>.>
AND SO YOU WILL BE PUNISHED<.<Like I said, just because you and some other fanboys whinge about it, doesn't make it a rule, and doesn't make the fact that you "consider it a rule" valid in any way, shape or form. I'm certainly never bowing again. The fanboys can try to "punish" me if they wish. :)

Originally posted by Mobius Berreta:
But seriously, going into other servers just to kill isn't exactly honourable if you do most of it by laming, Especialy when your using a kill tracker, I and many other's I assume would see that as jack-asstory.Going... into...

Can you read your own text? Going into servers just to kill is dishonourable? Going into servers just to kill is the POINT of the GAME! But perhaps you think "going into servers just to pretend to be a carpenter from Sulon" is the point of the game. ;)

Bah, you're most certainly a troll. Your statements are much too extreme to be genuine.

Originally posted by Ronin_Medjai:

Ok lets all do Ronin a Favor and stop bitching about "RPG Saber Noobies" cause IMO they are a disgrace to the RPG world of JKO.Sorry Ronin, they RPG, they use sabres, they are newbies, so while I've never used the expression myself, "RPG Saber Noobies" fits. Since they are giving your side of the community a bad name, maybe you should help us eradicate them. :)

Originally posted by alvocca:

i find it funny your all saying that bowing before a duel and not attacking a fighter with his saber off is bullsh*t??? and is RPG???

i thought the whole point of a duel was to see who is the better saberist and has more skill in combat not who is best at killing an unarmed person. am i wrong???

FFA is a totally different thing its every man for himself.The point of the duel is to win the duel. The better player doesn't always win, nobody has a hundred per-cent record. Secondly the aim of a duel is to whack the person you're fighting, with your sabre. So if the person decides that they want to talk when you're swinging your sabre at them, it's their fault that they got killed. The amount of times I've been called a lamer for killing a fanboy who started typing one millisecond before my strike connected...

Finally there are always people waiting to duel on a duel server, and the fanboys who spend HOURS and HOURS chatting and bowing and spinning and amkissing, are wasting OUR time as well as theirs. There is no excuse, frankly.

Back in the day, in JK1, FF duels on BGJ were the place to be seen. I fought hundreds of them from 1999-2002. The rules were simple: When the game starts, you both haul bottom out of there and try to kill each other any way you can. Whoever kills the most by the end of the game, wins. THAT was the way to play. Fast, furious, no-holds-barred, and THAT's the way to play on a public dedicated server. Anything else is malicious, it wastes everyone else's time. And frankly I don't trust any fanboy anyway, so I tried not to type back in a duel for fear of being hit.

As for FFA, it's just another game mode, and it has no more rules than duels do. That is to say, it has NO rules. The fanboys still tried to impose their stupid bowing, spinning and kissing and "I'm a moisture farmer from Tatooine" rules onto public FFA servers though.

Destroy fanboys, eradicate them wherever you find them.

Hekx
04-04-2003, 10:45 AM
It's a Star Wars game, not Frag Wars.
If you want to run around and kill everyone on a FFA server abusing ever 'trick' available, do so.
It would appear Raven have added more role-playing aspects to JKIII, maybe due to a larger audience.
If you want to 'frag' to get a high score, stay away from RPG servers.
Most RPG servers are poorly hosted, and poorly organized.
There's no set rules or guidelines for what happens in JKII.
Bowing in duels for respect, if you don't like it, don't do it.
Most servers have rules in place, so follow them.
Role-playing players are most probably still playing JKII, since they're more interested in using the game for role-plays, instead of 'bunny-hopping about fraggin' all the n00bs with their l337 skillz.'
If you don't like the game and it's rules. Go play Quake.

Rad Blackrose
04-04-2003, 11:53 AM
Yes, we have been here since day one.

I remember the day when you could walk into a server and immediately nail someone within the first 5 seconds because they looked at you funny. The day of pivitol DFA spammage. Those were the days.

Then the SC came around toting a cause that was bull****, in my opinion.

Now, lets fast forward to today, where we have an unprecendented ammount of nerfs to the one thing the fanboys were using the whole time. Like Fatal had in his sig in the merry ol' time, saberists are now like ravers with glowsticks.

Clarification time. If I go to a guns server, I expect it to be a warzone. If a saberist has his saber off, tough s***: You're getting a rocket up your ass.

Most servers which have guns active are usually a true FFA, no law abiding citizen server. Anarchy at its finest. That's how I define a gun server.

But when you get into the saber only servers, then more of that code starts to appear.

The only rules that exist on the server I administrate is the saber off and chatbox rule, as well as the emote exploits associated with VAM 2.2 to get out of the specials. Then again, that is to be taken with a grain of salt, and also a bit of common sense. I'd rather slap the idiot that ran through a group of actively engaged people and got hit, then began whining then the actual attackers.

What's more apparent these days? Lack of ability to follow rules? Or lack of common sense?

Oh, and go and find another server... Just kidding.

On one last note: Remember, killing fanboys is not a crime.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Yeah.. Ok there.

So whether or not I'm allowed to kill anything that moves in a *FFA all depends on the melee weapon in my hand?

Thanks for clearing that one up.

:rolleyes:



You have been around since day 1 if I'm correct.
So have I.

Do you remember a time when you could filter out the FFA game type in a browser and find 24 people going all out racing for the top spot and racking up kills as fast as humanly possible?

I do.

People played the game for what it was, an action game (I won't use the FPS term so as to not get into that discussion again) with Force powers and sabers.


Now?

Oh you can still find a FFA server with 24 people in it; problem is its 24 RPG saber noobies standing around doing idiotic ballerina emotes.

And please before you or anyone chimes in with the standard "go to another server" comment, like I said in the post above this one, they spread out like roaches to servers like mine where this nonsense is not wanted.

nova_wolf
04-04-2003, 11:56 AM
I think that a nice server of their own would be a good way to handle this.

I liked the online code of honour of bowing, but only at the start of a duel - was nice.

One of the servers I played on had a specific area where the Code was upheld. An exhibition area. Bespins Landing pad normally. the whole saber on / off was upheld there only.

Everywhere else was open season. That worked well. Proper duelling was allowed in one place, blasting in another.

But I agree that this whole RPGing it to match the films is crap though.

If you want that, make a level to emmulate the movie sequences.

Just as long as people do accept a server inposed honour code, then thats good.

Its like religion. Practise it where its wanted - dont preach to or try and convert those who honestly couldnt give a Wokie's testical - it will only end in tears and blood - YOURS!

eastcoast2895
04-04-2003, 02:50 PM
i've read most of the post (there is a lot of the same stuff so i gave up) and i don't get it. If a server enforces certain rules they gotta be followed, if you don't like it then leave the server or create your own. i'm just saying this cuz i get pissed when i'm on a server where there is the rule no saber on = peace and ppl do the friggin strong stance attack me while i'm standing there I GET PISSED. but then again if i'm on a server that doesn't enforce that rule and same thing happens, its my stupid fault. also about the bowing, i do it, i don't care if you don't, in fact i don't care if you attack me while i'm bowing. it happened to me before, i get out of the way. i have two reasons for bowing 1) show respect, but i also do that by saying good fight at the end 2) to see if the person is ready, a saber flying at you is also a good indication. all i'm really saying is follow the rules on the server or find a better one and don't cry about bowing, do it, don't, ITS A GAME!!. oh yeah can more ppl create real FFA servers, those are friggin great but there aren't enough.

shock ~ unnamed
04-04-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Aoshi
you know all this talk reminds me of a certain saber only clan that was exactly like most LF people. they had all these gay codes of honor and constantly kicked people from their server for "laming" aka "being better than them." this team constantly lost by humiliating margins and finally decided to wise up and have fun by winning. therefore they all scripted moves and tactics(which although was VERY cheap was nonetheless VERY effective) and went out and rocked the people that used to own them by going against their original ideals. if only some of the fanboys would also be enlightened to learn the game and take advantage of what's given them instead of whining to have everyone else nerfed down to their pathetic level.

Very effective?
Crap man, imagine as a gunner facing 4 guys who were all using OGC.
It was funny before the first round went live one of my guys goes "They are using energize this time".

I look over and I see 4 guys all with chat boxes over their heads firing off energize at like 1 millisecond per shot.

The hypocrisy of what they did pissed me off (at the time) but I still have to admire the ingenuity of it.

shock ~ unnamed
04-04-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Ronin_Medjai
Ok lets all do Ronin a Favor and stop bitching about "RPG Saber Noobies" cause IMO they are a disgrace to the RPG world of JKO.

Heh, sorry about that.
You are right, what they do is really in no way shape or form role playing as in what you do.

Personally from this day on for me at least, it will just be "fan boy saber noobies".

*fan boy copyrighted by Spider AL 2003


/Back on topic.

Server rules are one thing.

If a server has a rule that you must put a [GAY] tag in your name, then do it or leave.

That is no the issue.

The problem I have is with individual players who seek to "enforce" this wherever they go, even on servers that have no such rules.

Now as for the bowing.
No it is not a big deal and yes it only takes all of 1/2 a second to do it.
90% of the time I do it out of habit and don't even consciously realize I'm doing it.

My problem with the bowing are those people who do those "long drawn out 30 minute put the saber away, crouch, look down as slow as humanly possible, stay there for another 45 minutes, look up as slow as humanly possible, stand up, remain still for another 30 minutes, then walk slowly around the map for 15 minutes, then finally ignite the saber" bows.

These people are also the type who stand there like utter morons when they see you running right at them and never bother to put up any defense.

You can actually kick them 3-4 times before they turn the saber on. But instead of fighting at this point they usually stop and call you "gay".


Yesterday I had two guys say "You don't bow I refuse to fight you".

In the past I did a really fast one and they said "That's not a real bow, do it again the right way so we can begin".

I mean really, come one people Star Wars was never that damn fruity the last time I checked.

Dark_One
04-04-2003, 05:06 PM
The whining people, like the guy who started this thread, don't know a thing about RP'ing. I can imagine you in a RPG. With your lols, rofls and other dumb things.

And saying bowing is RP'ing isn't true either. Someone said that you use your model to do an emote. That isn't RP'ing. You shoot people with your model too, is that RP'ing???

Sheesh ... do what you want, if someone doesn't behave on my server they get kicked.

Aoshi
04-04-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Very effective?
Crap man, imagine as a gunner facing 4 guys who were all using OGC.
It was funny before the first round went live one of my guys goes "They are using energize this time".

I look over and I see 4 guys all with chat boxes over their heads firing off energize at like 1 millisecond per shot.

The hypocrisy of what they did pissed me off (at the time) but I still have to admire the ingenuity of it.

hehe actually i have faced the tactic before. pG uses the tactic and in my euro match against them (i play for a euro team too). they had 3 defenders all with the te script/ constant pulling/wait for rage to wear off and kill you. that's ALL they did. i have to admit, that was the most frustrating game i've ever played in my entire life. Rage didnt work, absorb didnt work, protect didnt work, going in and sniping them first didnt work, trying to rocket them first didnt work (they'd just push/energize), you'd never get far enough away to use an energy shield... yea that was the worst game i've ever played. me toosexy aeroshift jimbeam and khaza were beaten 12-0 and 8-0 and you know full well how good we are (me toosexy and aero were all voted in the top 10 gunners of jk2). it is an ingenius strat though and it's totally effecitve... it's just that it's TOO effective =(.

Mandalorian54
04-04-2003, 06:32 PM
There seems to be some heat rising...


well if it's a duel, bowing is respectable. But if you notice the other guy doesn't feel like bowing and instead feals like cutting the BS and getting on with it, for heavens sake don't lower you light saber and say "Saber down = peace" For that, you deserve to die!

I have no prob. with RPing. But no one should have to if they don't want to. The point of the game is to kill your enemies, not to impress them by bowing fifty million times proving your more honorable. How does pushing shift mean your honorable? You wan't real honor in a game, press the URL in my sig. NOW THAT GAME HAS HONOR!!!!!!

why do you think people should have to do it your way?


(Not directed at any individual, but people in general who share the beliefe that evryone should rp, and you shouldn't be able to kill someone when they have no weapon.)

It's like playing any game and killing the wimpy little brother before he got a weapon.

You kill them when their sabers down so they don't get it up and kill you. DUH!

Me, I use tons of Thermal detanators, they do tons of damage(three hit's and your dead) and they can't be deflected. They can be force pushed, which is why I wait for an opportunity.

If you've got a problem with over use of Thermals, I hope you don't over use Lighting. Me, I don't have a problem with overusers of lighting, it's a little cheap, but I still win! And if youve got a problem with over users of Thermals, for heavens sake learn to use force push!

Spider AL
04-04-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Hčkx Nňxú:
It's a Star Wars game, not Frag Wars.
Like it or not, Hekx, it's a frag-based FPS game. Even duel servers have a scoreboard. ;) Just because the game's based around Jedi, doesn't make it an RPG. In a lot of the public duel servers I used to play on, the admins were fanboys. They'd come on to the server and kick people for killing them, and their only explanation was "He used x move too much." Too much? How much is too much? Enough to kill the fanboy, that's how much. There was no such rule on the server. Fanboys are hypocrisy made flesh.

Originally posted by Hčkx Nňxú:
If you want to 'frag' to get a high score, stay away from RPG servers.Well I don't know about anyone else, but I've never set foot in an RPG server since JO was released. That doesn't stop the fanboys coming to OUR servers and demanding that we all roleplay though. Fanboys are a serious problem in the Dark Forces community, and they've been even more trouble since JO was released, simply because the game is dedicated-server based. But even in the days of JK1 they infected our servers. I'd sit on the zone with a game called:

"BGJ FF NH - 1on1 - No holds Barred"

And the fanboys would come in, I'd kill them once, they'd call me a lamer and leave. Even back then they were wasting everyone's time.

Originally posted by Hčkx Nňxú:
If you don't like the game and it's rules. Go play Quake.
There are no rules, Hekx. Admins may choose to put rules down for specific servers, but the majority of public servers in my day had no such rules. These are the servers that the insipid fanboys seek to capture and rule. There's no excuse for that kind of behaviour.

Oh, and your statement is equivalent to, and as pointless as, saying: "if you don't like the fact that Jedi Outcast isn't an RPG, go play Baldur's Gate." I mean what does that mean? It's meaningless and offensive.

Originally posted by Dark_One:
The whining people, like the guy who started this thread, don't know a thing about RP'ing. I can imagine you in a RPG. With your lols, rofls and other dumb things.What does this mean? Never mind, I don't really want to know. :)

Originally posted by Dark_One:
And saying bowing is RP'ing isn't true either. Someone said that you use your model to do an emote. That isn't RP'ing. You shoot people with your model too, is that RP'ing???Shooting people is the aim of the game in guns-servers. Bowing is not the aim of the game in duel servers. That's pretty much the distinction you're looking for.

Secondly, bowing and using other emotes, is roleplaying. If they were in the same room, would the fanboys who use +amkiss really be snogging each other? If they were playing a game in the same room, would they stand up and bow to each other? Of course not, they're using their models to act out some sort of wierd fantasy-experience-thing. Bowing adds nothing to duels, any more than kissing each other through the medium of JO models does.

On a side note, bowing doesn't automatically show respect, every fanboy bows before a duel and insults you after it, win or lose. The people who say "good game" or "well played" the most are also the people who don't give a fig about bowing, in my experience.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed:
In the past I did a really fast one and they said "That's not a real bow, do it again the right way so we can begin". I mean really, come one people Star Wars was never that damn fruity the last time I checked.The fanboys that whinge about "being starwarsy" rarely know anything much about Star Wars in the first place. Heck, they've probably only seen the prequels. It's not Star Wars that's fruity. ;)

CanadianSurfer
04-04-2003, 07:34 PM
These long posts are hurting my eyes. >8(

Bacon00
04-04-2003, 11:33 PM
"The whining people, like the guy who started this thread, don't know a thing about RP'ing. I can imagine you in a RPG. With your lols, rofls and other dumb things."

What's wrong with "lol?"

yolkboy
04-05-2003, 12:01 AM
And how are the rest dumb? :rolleyes: You use those abreviations to express yourself.

Taos
04-05-2003, 01:27 AM
How about we keep things simple......if you don't like RPG, don't play it. But don't complain about others that do, just go and find your 'style' of JO to play-there are plenty of servers out there. Let others play the game they want to be played. :cool:

shock ~ unnamed
04-05-2003, 01:49 AM
Sure and let's all tell people "hey you don't like profanity just find a server where people do not curse".

No one hates “role players”.
Most of them play on isolated servers and don’t bother anyone.

We hate fanboy “bow or we’ll vote you off” saber noobies.

Big difference, and all fanboy saber noobies must be purged through an onslaught of laming until FFA servers are once again a place where people can go to actually…

play FFA.

HertogJan
04-05-2003, 02:54 AM
RPGing is ok with me, as long as I'm not forced to do it too... But I do think that you shouldn't kill anyone with saber off (unless he doesn't respond to your chat, I ask if they wanna fight or not - no response = kill) and if they bow... I just nod my head, but I don't kill 'em...

And if someone tries to kill me with saber off, I'll just humiliate him by kicking him to death with saber off, MWUAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

Darn, another step closer to the dark side ;)

Bacon00
04-05-2003, 03:16 AM
"No one hates “role players”.
Most of them play on isolated servers and don’t bother anyone.

We hate fanboy “bow or we’ll vote you off” saber noobies.

Big difference, and all fanboy saber noobies must be purged through an onslaught of laming until FFA servers are once again a place where people can go to actually…

play FFA."






That basically sums up exactly what I am trying to say.

Nice work.

Hekx
04-05-2003, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by Bacon00
"No one hates “role players”.
Most of them play on isolated servers and don’t bother anyone.

We hate fanboy “bow or we’ll vote you off” saber noobies.

Big difference, and all fanboy saber noobies must be purged through an onslaught of laming until FFA servers are once again a place where people can go to actually…

play FFA."In that case, yes. Kill all the fanboys. :p

Dark_One
04-05-2003, 05:51 AM
Never met anyone who said: "bow or I don't fight you" Even I would kill them for saying that.

And saying things like: lol, rofl etc ... will likely get you kicked in a real CRPG.

Like said above, if you don't like those things then just stand there and let them bow. When they're done finish them of.

Ronin_Medjai
04-05-2003, 06:27 AM
LOL this Thread owns. Lets form a Group to Unite the "Elite" and the "Tru RPers" to Eradicate and Ultimately Destory the Fanboys. Like um *doesnt feel like scroliing up to see* that guy said The Way you play is like a Religon its fine where its Practice but dont go force it on others.

Hekx is kinda right too RPers stick to their own Servers and in all honesty a LOT of Servers that label their Servers as "RPG" and include the "Serious Roleplayers Only" are usually the worst RPG Servers. A Lot of people who think they are RPers suck at RPing and only Abuse Admin and other lame Crap. I am Getting a Dedicated T3 server soon Dedicated for The RPG Mod thats in progress and the Elite RPing Clubs such as RPI,RA,and KOA,and any other unknown groups can come here also that way all the "True RPers" have somewhere to call home. This wont really help any of you cause us RPers arent those Fanboy peeps which you will have coming to your Server but they will probly come to ours and try to Turn it into a Dueling Saber down=peace Crap Server (in an RPG Saber down does not Mean peace lol)

--edit oh and everything below Now as for the bowing.
was so damn funny I have seen those same exact people and I usually Slice them why they scan the ground for 45 minutes looking for diff formations in the grounds texture that look like Jedis from SW Movies.

shock ~ unnamed
04-05-2003, 06:29 AM
I had two guys "protest my lack of honor" by simply standing there and saying "I refuse to duel you" when it was their turn.

This was on Infinite (European FF duel server) two days ago.

Why did I have no honor?

Because I made the stupid mistake of going to a Full Force duel server looking to... Full Force duel.

You see being the gay/lame/honor less/noob that I am I didn't know on Full Force servers when someone demands (not asks) that you do not use Force you are supposed to comply.

Him: "No Force No Throw No Kick"

Me: no

Him: "I said NO FORCE NO THROW NO KICK"

Me: no

Him: **** YOU I 'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT YOUR ***** ***


Hence I was branded a lamer and my emotional scars have yet to heal to this day.


:cry6:

leXX
04-05-2003, 07:30 AM
It's all very well calling RPGers 'saber noobies', but in my experience (and I did play MP non stop for 11 months), the people who bow are the ones who are the most experienced and have respect for their fellow players. I don't think it's fun to go into a game will a bunch of people just swinging their sabers around killing everything in sight. Is that 'fun'? Not in my opinion. I'd much rather play with people with 'skill', and the ones I think have the most 'skill' are the people who actually take the time to realise that there is more to this game than winning.

What is wrong with acknowledging each other at the start of a fight? What is wrong with letting the other person know you arn't about to slice them up when they arn't ready? Nothing imo. I'm not saying you have to RPG, I'm saying there is nothing wrong with people who do, so just let them get on with it and let's keep the servers a fun place to play for everyone.

If you don't like the rules laid down by a server, don't waste your time moaning about it, go find another server to play on whose rules you agree with, simple as that.

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 09:56 AM
If you don't like the rules laid down by a server, don't waste your time moaning about it, go find another server to play on whose rules you agree with, simple as that.

Sigh. leXX, you have to grasp the distinction: Fanboys don't stay on duel servers with rules about bowing. They come to OUR servers and try to IMPOSE their stupid rules. THAT'S what it's all about.

I've never played on a server with a rule saying "you must bow before a duel" in my LIFE. The FANBOYS still popped up and tried to make me though. And god forgive me, I did it just for a quiet life. Well not anymore.

Crush fanboys!

What is wrong with acknowledging each other at the start of a fight? What is wrong with letting the other person know you arn't about to slice them up when they arn't ready? Nothing imo.Bowing doesn't mean ANY of those things. Every other fanboy lamer, when he's dubbed you "dishonourable", bows at you and tries to hit you when you return that bow. Fanboys are untrustworthy scum.

leXX
04-05-2003, 10:22 AM
I've had this argument far too many times in the old multiplayer stragegy forums, and I'm certainly not about to get into it yet again, so I'll just say this and leave it at that:

If someone visits your server and you don't like they way they play, kick them, quite simple really. If your not the admin of the server, leave and find another, quite simple really. With the amount of servers out there, why on earth would anyone stay on a server or let someone stay on a server when they are being annoyed by them. It just doesn't make any sense.

I was an admin of a duel server (hermes place), and let me say this, it was the best god damn duel server out there. Our 'rules' where quite simple, have fun. If an idiot came on the server acting like a jerk, he was kicked without hesitation. Noone was forced to bow, but the saber down rule was enforced. All that was asked of people was that they showed their fellow players respect, and that kept everyone coming back day after day.

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 11:12 AM
If your not the admin of the server, leave and find another, quite simple really. With the amount of servers out there, why on earth would anyone stay on a server or let someone stay on a server when they are being annoyed by them. It just doesn't make any sense.Pfft, and let the fanboys take over the servers and turn them into little slices of errant RPG hell? Not on your life. You do what you like on your server, I'll combat the fanboys on the servers I will frequent.

It's quite fanboy to kick people because you "don't like the way they play" by the way. Breach of rules should be the only reason for a kick, anything else is a sub-par kiddie clan server.

Ronin_Medjai
04-05-2003, 11:17 AM
DAMNIT NOT RPG HELL STOP SAYING RPG!!!!! Fanboys are not RPers!!! you are giving "Us" a bad name now cut it out!

leXX
04-05-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Pfft, and let the fanboys take over the servers and turn them into little slices of errant RPG hell? Not on your life. You do what you like on your server, I'll combat the fanboys on the servers I will frequent.

You love the word 'fanboy' don't you?

Then combat them by all means, but by that, you are presuming you are in the right.

It's quite fanboy to kick people because you "don't like the way they play" by the way. Breach of rules should be the only reason for a kick, anything else is a sub-par kiddie clan server.

Did I say I kicked ppl because I didn't like the way they played?? No I didn't. You are the one moaning about the way ppl play, not me. And our server was far from a clan server.

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 11:29 AM
You love the word 'fanboy' don't you?Fanboys are what I and others have been talking about the whole thread.

Then combat them by all means, but by that, you are presuming you are in the right.I do presume so. Trying to impose non-existent rules onto public servers that have no such rules, must be combatted. The fanboys must be combatted. Crush all fanboys.

Did I say I kicked ppl because I didn't like the way they played?? No I didn't.You said this:

If someone visits your server and you don't like they way they play, kick them, quite simple really.So you're advising people to kick players for such a reason.

I disagree with that advice. I think it's thoroughly reprehensible frankly. I've played on too many servers (public game networks servers mind you) where the admins kicked people who killed them on the flimsy pretext of "not liking the way they played." I was merely fortunate never to be kicked from any server for the same, petty reasons.

You are the one moaning about the way ppl play, not me. And our server was far from a clan server.I'm moaning about fanboys. Fanboys don't play. They whine.

leXX
04-05-2003, 11:44 AM
So you're advising people to kick players for such a reason.

I disagree with that advice. I think it's thoroughly reprehensible frankly. I've played on too many servers (public game networks servers mind you) where the admins kicked people who killed them on the flimsy pretext of "not liking the way they played." I was merely fortunate never to be kicked from any server for the same, petty reasons.


I'm not disagreeing with you. People shouldn't be allowed to come on to a server and impose their own personal rules. I'm asking, what are you gonna do, argue with them for half an hour on whether you should bow or not? If a person does wanna stand there arguing about the rules of a server, they are considered a jerk imo and would be kicked.

I never had that problem because if you don't want to bow, fair enough and likewise, if you bow, fair enough. And again, I never kicked anyone because I didn't like the way they played (actual combat, not talk), I kicked them if they acted like jerks.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
04-05-2003, 11:53 AM
I have fond memories of joining a full-force guns server, getting a few kills, then mysteriously getting kicked (incidently, can we have a proper kick message? i'm sick of the vague "server disconnected"), I rejoin and ask why I was kicked and they said it was because I was using a gun.

Now when I originally joined the server there was no greet message, nobody complained when I killed them, I just got kicked after about a minute... for using a gun on a full-force guns-enabled server...

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 12:12 PM
I never kicked anyone because I didn't like the way they played (actual combat, not talk),That's a good thing, Lexxy. However you have recommended that everyone else should kick players when they don't like the way those players play. That's not good.

I kicked them if they acted like jerks.And who defines what "acting like a jerk" is? You, I suppose. Well if you're paying for the server you can do what you like, but "acting like a jerk" is hardly concrete enough as a concept to base a rule around. A simple rule like "no swearing," or "no abusing other players textually" is good, and leaves no scope for malicious admins to abuse their powers.

I'm not disagreeing with you. People shouldn't be allowed to come on to a server and impose their own personal rules. I'm asking, what are you gonna do, argue with them for half an hour on whether you should bow or not?What you do, is kill them. All fanboys must be killed and stomped upon ingame, none can be allowed to take control of public servers, and what's REALLY important is that serious players band together to prevent the fanboys ruining the upcoming game with their endless whining to Raven about hardwiring their silly wants and needs into the game through patching, as happened in JO 1.03.

Detritic's most recent post highlights the problem with fanboys in all positions, powerful or otherwise. They're hypocrites with a limited understanding of the game and of basic internet civility.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
04-05-2003, 12:16 PM
Indeedski. I would have left straight away if they asked me, explaining that it was a sabers game. I get no joy or fulfillment about playing people who have no interest in fighting back.

leXX
04-05-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
[B]That's a good thing, Lexxy. However you have recommended that everyone else should kick players when they don't like the way those players play. That's not good.

If a person does wanna stand there arguing about the rules of a server, they are considered a jerk imo and would be kicked.

If you don't agree with me, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

And who defines what "acting like a jerk" is? You, I suppose.

Yep.

Well if you're paying for the server you can do what you like, but "acting like a jerk" is hardly concrete enough as a concept to base a rule around. A simple rule like "no swearing," or "no abusing other players textually" is good, and leaves no scope for malicious admins to abuse their powers.

Do I really need to define what acting like a jerk means. I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who the jerks are.

What you do, is kill them. All fanboys must be killed and stomped upon ingame, none can be allowed to take control of public servers, and what's REALLY important is that serious players band together to prevent the fanboys ruining the upcoming game with their endless whining to Raven about hardwiring their silly wants and needs into the game through patching, as happened in JO 1.03.

And what do you do if you can't kill them. What if you loose every single match against them? (And I don't wanna hear, I would win because I'm so brilliant).

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by leXX:

And what do you do if you can't kill them. What if you loose every single match against them? (And I don't wanna hear, I would win because I'm so brilliant).

I doubt if any player who practices more than twice a week would be unable to defeat a fanboy. Fanboys spend all their time whining because they lose, if they spent time practicing they would no longer be fanboys.

Besides, the effort is the important thing. If you're on a public game-network server with no rules, and the fanboys insist that you bow, don't bow. If they kickvote you off, return with your friends and crush them. If the ADMIN of the server is a fanboy, complain to the game network, and make sure your friends complain too.

Serious players must stick together, because you can be sure that the fanboys stick together like little glue-covered... umm... fanboys.

Originally posted by leXX:

If a person does wanna stand there arguing about the rules of a server, they are considered a jerk imo and would be kicked.

If you don't agree with me, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.Lexx, that's not the relevant quote. This is the relevant quote from your post, the one I quoted and replied to previously:

Originally posted by leXX:

If someone visits your server and you don't like they way they play, kick them,Now there's no excuse for that. Reprehensible.

leXX
04-05-2003, 12:41 PM
And by that quote, I meant arguing with you, not their actual combat. I would of thought that was pretty obvious by now judging by all my other posts.


Well you do it your way, and I'll do it my way and we will just leave it at that.

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 12:46 PM
And by that quote, I meant arguing with you, not their actual combat. I would of thought that was pretty obvious by now judging by all my other posts.I'm not sure how the "way people play" is in any way related to whether they argue or not, but if that's what you meant then that's okay. If I were you I'd be a little more careful about how I worded things in future though. A mod on the major JK forums giving a green light to server admins to abuse their powers, intentionally or unintentionally, is no laughing matter.

Well you do it your way, and I'll do it my way and we will just leave it at that.Absolutely. As I've said previously, if you pay for the server you can do whatever you wish on it.

The concerns of fair-play and justice for players (and the eradication of fanboys) must be paramount in the minds of all server-admins however, regardless of what sort of server they're running.

Doctor Shaft
04-05-2003, 12:49 PM
The thing I love about the pseudo-Rpers or the fanboys is that they'll tell you that you aren't a real jedi when you don't comply to their rules.

I've decided that whenever I encounter this stuff again, I will be prepared to "counter-rpg".

My counter-rpg system is simple. If I am playing on a public server that does not posess clearly marked rules such as "this here be an RPG server, here be me rulz", then the counter-rpg system is in effect.

1.) When I am asked to bow, I simply reply "sorry, I'm a Sith Lord, Sith Lords don't bow". An alternative to that is "I'm a mercenary similar to Aurra Sing, you know, the jedi hopeful turned mercenary. So I use a lightsaber and guns... and I don't bow".

2.) When someone has their saber off, and there are no 'rulz' stipulating that saber off should be honored, then I am going to kill them. that's just how it's done. If its clear to me that they are in some deep, dark corner, far away from combat, and they are not moving, have a text box over their head, etc., I leave them alone. Otherwise, dead meat. If they are in the middle of a battle field and turn on the text box, sorry, you're dead. I don't have time to plan an attack on you, only to see the magic box appear. When someone claims that I have no honor though, I simply reply "sorry, I'm a Sith Lord/Aurra Sing/Boba Fett/Jabba the Hutt/The Emperor/the guy who killed moisture farmers from Sulon/Darth Vader. I'm a killer". This also solves the "you have no rhyme or reason for kills, you're lame" argument. Because now you have a reason. Of course you'd kill everything in sight.

3.) When the usual 'lame!' messages come up for various reasons, such as intelligently pushing my opponent off the ledge, as opposed to fighting them head on, or using a rocket launcher, or using my sniper rifle to knock them out, or kicking them when they try to hump me with their lightsaber, or just using my dark side powers to vanquish them (there was a reason i had them in the first place, right?), once again, I can simply say "sorry, according to my code of 'honourz', I am a Sith Lord/Aurra Sing/Boba Fett/your worst nightmare, and therefore honor has no place in my character. I am indeed adhering to the Star Warz univerze, because when I watched the movie, I know @#$! well that Jango Fett did not play fair, nor did he bow to Mace Windu before having his head cut off!"

And that ends my Counter-RPG system. My apologies to any of the REAL RPG servers, players, admins, etc., who have clearly designated games and servers. To the ones coming to the public servers... you plagued us with your rules. That's fine. You've somehow 'justified' your actions, and now, in a Star Wars-esque fashion, I have justified my own. Take it.

leXX
04-05-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
I'm not sure how the "way people play" is in any way related to whether they argue or not, but if that's what you meant then that's okay. If I were you I'd be a little more careful about how I worded things in future though. A mod on the major JK forums giving a green light to server admins to abuse their powers, intentionally or unintentionally, is no laughing matter.

Which is why I made it clear in all my posts after you picked up on that one particular sentence exactly what I meant by it.

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft:

I can simply say "sorry, according to my code of 'honourz', I am a Sith Lord/Aurra Sing/Boba Fett/your worst nightmare, and therefore honor has no place in my character. I am indeed adhering to the Star Warz univerze, because when I watched the movie, I know DAMN well that Jango Fett did not play fair, nor did he bow to Mace Windu before having his head cut off!" Hmm, honour is very important to me when I play online, so I'm saddened to see that the fanboys have almost succeeded in making it a dirty word.

Honour is:

Not swearing. (edit: Not screaming profanities at other players when they beat you or you beat them, that is)
Not abusing other players textually.
Not cheating.
Not being a hypocrite.
Not forcing your own rules of play onto others.
Not whining.

That's honour. Fanboys don't know the meaning of the word.

Originally posted by leXX:

Which is why I made it clear in all my posts after you picked up on that one particular sentence exactly what I meant by it.Perhaps so, though there is clear and then there is clear. If I were you I would have edited it out and posted a retraction, but now that you've made it totally clear that you didn't mean it, there's no need for any more argument, and we're talking on the same page, right?

leXX
04-05-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
[B]Hmm, honour is very important to me when I play online, so I'm saddened to see that the fanboys have almost succeeded in making it a dirty word.

Honour is:

Not swearing. (edit: Not screaming profanities at other players when they beat you or you beat them, that is)
Not abusing other players textually.
Not cheating.
Not being a hypocrite.
Not forcing your own rules of play onto others.
Not whining.

That's honour. Fanboys don't know the meaning of the word.

I totally agree with this. Perhaps I have misunderstood exactly what you consider a 'fanboy' to be. Explain to me what you think a 'fanboy' is.

Spider AL
04-05-2003, 01:22 PM
I totally agree with this. Perhaps I have misunderstood exactly what you consider a 'fanboy' to be. Explain to me what you think a 'fanboy' is.Well a lot of fans who don't use the term "fanboy" a lot tend to think it refers just to fans. But it doesn't of course, I'm a Star Wars fan myself, a proper fan, dedicated to trivia and to a certain extent, sad.

But fans are good people. Fanboys are completely separate.

Who knows how the word came into popular use. Someone suggested recently that the word "fanboy" might have arisen when people needed to describe IMMATURE fans, hence the word "boy." So fanboys describe immature fans... people who have a limited knowledge of the subject they profess to be a fan of, and behave in a very immature fashion.

And since Jedi Outcast, fanboy has been used to describe those players who whine a lot, and use sort of flimsy Star Wars excuses to bolster their whining.

For example: A fanboy is the type of person who might get killed, and whine saying "you're a lamer!" when they're asked WHY they called their killer a lamer, they'd say something like "coz that dont happen in the films" or something of that sort. They usually band together and kickvote the people that beat them off the server, and then wander round spinning and bowing and amkissing, because they really don't enjoy playing the game properly, and just use it to while away their time and, yes, to roleplay to a certain extent. (Ronin, I'm not calling them pure RPGers, mind you. ;) )

The main behaviour that defines a fanboy is: The fanboy will attempt to force some sort of wierd rule onto whatever public server they join. Like bowing, but even worse: Duels on the platform in a guns FFA. And as extreme as "no gunz" on a guns-ffa or ctf public server.

And fanboy-players have infested ALL gaming communities, but they're most concentrated in the JO community for obvious reasons.

leXX
04-05-2003, 01:36 PM
Well thank you for clearing that up. I have a feeling we have been arguing over nothing. I thought you considered all people who bowed a fanboy, and that is what I was defending as someone who bowed and is proud of that fact.

Aoshi
04-05-2003, 02:11 PM
lol the other day i was playing on jedibattlefield jk2++ server and i was just messing around sniping people. then one guy goes "i really hate it when people script their snipes i mean god cant they just get some skill?" so naturally i just ignored him and kept sniping him and he kept complaining saying that i have a snipe scripted blah blah blah. so then i finally get fed up with him and ask "do you know what a script actually is?" and he says "yea you're hacking your snipes so that you always hit me and i cant dodge." now... in JK2++ snipes always penetrate saber defense and the only way to avoid the is by using seeing. also if he actually knew what a SCRIPT is he'd know that it's impossible to script snipes. this is an example of a fanboy an immature player who makes baseless accusations because his own skill is vastly inferior to the skill level of others and must console himself by deluding himself into believing that everyone else hacks/cheats/scripts. these people then band together and votekick others from playing simply because they are superior gamers.

nova_wolf
04-05-2003, 02:39 PM
It is annoying, but ultimately, what can you do. They are not likely to change if we simply take the bait (I am sure that some of these little buggers do it to try andget a rise out of the veteran players)

As with most bullies, dumb asses and lamers, the only way to get the message across is to boycott them and their friends and servers. They will happily play in their own groups, get bored senseless, and give up when no new competition is forth coming.

As long as we PROPOERLY honourable players such as yourselves stick together on this, and dont arrgravate the problem, they will figure it out, and stay clear. If they do venture out, then NAIL THEM, but else leave them be.

It just one of those little things which are small, but are so INCREDIBLY annoying that it just isnt right in the cosmic scheme of things.

Krayt Tion
04-05-2003, 02:53 PM
I only see logic in the following:

Acceptable behavior starts and ends with the server owners and/or admins assigned by the server owners. For better or for worse a person's server is their own purchased and maintained virtual world where user particpation is voluntary.

All behavior on servers is approved either directly or indirectly by the admins. On one end of the spectrum you'll find servers with clearly marked, explicit rules enforced by admins that regularly watch the server like hawks. On the other, servers completely devoid of any admin presence where the only rules are actually the server settings selected when the multiplayer game was created (voting, friendly saber, allow saber lock, etc).

For the latter, it's worth pointing out that if a server has no admin presence and has voting enabled, you can bet the majority is going to rule. Not that the majority or their playstyle is any more valid than any other group or playstyle. It's just that what someone wants can become irrelevant in the face of explicit server rules, general server settings, and whimsicial, immature, or unintelligent admins.

I've resigned myself to the fact that all types of server admins will enact their right to mold their virtual domain as they see fit. Most of the time this means they'll do something I don't approve of and don't want to be around. The server has then lost my patronage and I move on. Rinse. Repeat.

This day and age it's a frustrating, time-consuming process to find a good public server for any fps given my attitudes and playstyle. That I can no longer find a good public server with the frequency that I used to is a bitter pill to swallow. Perhaps I'm not doing enough but that is my reality; my expectations couldn't get much lower in this regard.

My guess is that more people play JO and will play JA on public servers as "fanboys" or what have you than as clanners or fps purists. Again, I'm not campaigning to win the hearts and minds of one group or another here; this is a simple reality of numbers. If the latter groups are concerned about their representation on servers as part of the JA community, I hope their expectations are grounded enough to expect a long hard struggle ahead of them.

edit: spelling

eastcoast2895
04-05-2003, 02:59 PM
i was just wondering if any fanboys would like to defend themselves in their actions, fanboys meaning the ppl who go onto servers w/ no rules about lightsaber off = peace or those who won't fight when ppl don't bow.

yolkboy
04-05-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
I have fond memories of joining a full-force guns server, getting a few kills, then mysteriously getting kicked (incidently, can we have a proper kick message? i'm sick of the vague "server disconnected"), I rejoin and ask why I was kicked and they said it was because I was using a gun.

Now when I originally joined the server there was no greet message, nobody complained when I killed them, I just got kicked after about a minute... for using a gun on a full-force guns-enabled server...

Yeah, I would like a proper kick message as well. Heh, it still happens to me today. I've made many enemies just because they were killed by me. It doesn't matter how. They just whine about how I'm a noob because I killed them with (insert weapon here).

Rad Blackrose
04-05-2003, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by Krayt Tion
I only see logic in the following:

Acceptable behavior starts and ends with the server owners and/or admins assigned by the server owners. For better or for worse a person's server is their own purchased and maintained virtual world where user particpation is voluntary.

All behavior on servers is approved either directly or indirectly by the admins. On one end of the spectrum you'll find servers with clearly marked, explicit rules enforced by admins that regularly watch the server like hawks. On the other, servers completely devoid of any admin presence where the only rules are actually the server settings selected when the multiplayer game was created (voting, friendly saber, allow saber lock, etc).

For the latter, it's worth pointing out that if a server has no admin presence and has voting enabled, you can bet the majority is going to rule. Not that the majority or their playstyle is any more valid than any other group or playstyle. It's just that what someone wants can become irrelevant in the face of explicit server rules, general server settings, and whimsicial, immature, or unintelligent admins.

I've resigned myself to the fact that all types of server admins will enact their right to mold their virtual domain as they see fit. Most of the time this means they'll do something I don't approve of and don't want to be around. The server has then lost my patronage and I move on. Rinse. Repeat.

This day and age it's a frustrating, time-consuming process to find a good public server for any fps given my attitudes and playstyle. That I can no longer find a good public server with the frequency that I used to is a bitter pill to swallow. Perhaps I'm not doing enough but that is my reality; my expectations couldn't get much lower in this regard.

My guess is that more people play JO and will play JA on public servers as "fanboys" or what have you than as clanners or fps purists. Again, I'm not campaigning to win the hearts and minds of one group or another here; this is a simple reality of numbers. If the latter groups are concerned about their representation on servers as part of the JA community, I hope their expectations are grounded enough to expect a long hard struggle ahead of them.

edit: spelling

Fine words, but let me ask you this:

You acknowledge the fact that the server administrators are going to enforce rules, yet you can't seem to somewhat bend to accomodate? You can't reach some sort of a compromise with the staff and say that... you may be an ******* at times and have to take a few heads off of a few idiots from time to time?

Ahh, the endless scheme of what ifs...

However, there's no better way to coin the downfall of JKII. Right now everyone's blame is focused on the fanboys and their extensive rules. I believe, on the other hand, that everyone here played a part of the downfall of JKII in one way for another. While the fanboys were creating a emotional hurricane of epic proportions, the ones who knew what they were talking out were pushed to the backburner. I think too much went on in terms of public opinion, that we now fight with glowsticks, not the representation of a weapon from an age's past.

The divisions with the mod community didn't help much either.

I just find it trivial and somewhat amusing that there are people in this very thread that are trying to pinpoint the source of the problem on just one distinct theory, and put the rest on the backburner just as fast as they (Raven and LucasArts) did to those who had reasonable arguements in terms of the roughshod patches.

If you want to solve the problem, you got to get to equal grounds on what the problem is in the first place.

I don't see that happening here...

EDIT: Oh, and Aoshi, I think now would be the proper time to bring out the STFU n00b flash.

Moradivh
04-05-2003, 08:56 PM
Good post Rad.

Now here's the problem (hehehe): JO has two totally contradictory player groups: the COMPETITIVE player and the FRIENDLY player. This isn't to say competitive players can't be friendly -- I'm defining friendly players as people who expect friendly, chatty, slow-paced gameplay (*yawn*), and wish to enforce it.

Anyways, like it or not, there's gonna be alot of fanboys around in JA. You can't screen em' out, and Raven wouldn't want to in the first place. But.... I think if both player types had an institution in JO, and stopped butting heads, then they could tolerate each other, and you'd probably see alot more "friendly" players trying competition. But as it stands they all use the same gametype. There's often no way of knowing what you'll find when you join a server, so there's constant conflicts. Now, when friendly players get bored of their servers, they're already too bitter and hateful of the "lamers" to try playing competitively. So they quit the game. I think we're seeing a fatal cut in the community that's keeping most newbies from ever becoming skilled, or even learning the meaning of the word.

IMO, Raven has to make an official distinction between these two castes. In-game, where nobody can miss it. After all, JO is really a completely different game for each of these two groups, even if the game's settings are identical. Sadly we can discuss how people feel on these forums, make websites about the problem, try to educate the hordes of fan-brats, but the bulk of them aren't going to read any of this and we'll have the same problems in JA as JO.

But what if, in JA's Game Creation menu, Raven added a small comsmetic option at the top of the screen? I'm not talking about anything that seriously alters game settings. It's mostly there so n00b players have to SEE the distinction.

What if you could toggle "Friendly Game" or "Competitive Game" in the host options? In big, colorful, important-looking letters, so the newbies couldn't miss it. I know it'd be really condescending for you decent players, but think of the advantages! The in-game browser would show the distinction, so skilled players would know which servers were for n00bs. And if any fan-brats joined our games and bitched about "no honor," we could just say "competitive game, n00b. You're looking for a friendly game." Then they'd notice the huge, bold text, and feel embarassed, and probably steer clear until they got bored of their friendly servers.

JO already has a training mode, but most fanboys don't even know it exists, and even if they did they probably wouldn't use it. They DO want to fight after all, and kill each other, but only in a slow, tedious chatty fashion. And if they could actually put a title in game creation called "FRIENDLY GAME," then I think most of our problems would be solved.

My only worry about this idea is griefers setting traps, creating a game labelled "friendly," and gang-raping every n00b that joins their server. This kind of behaviour would be extremely bad for the system, since it'd make everybody mistrust the designations and we'd be back to the situation in JO. So.... what if all players could use the "god mode" cheat in Friendly games, and maybe even squelch any player they want? That would allow all newbies to choose when they want to be attacked, and silence anyone who taunts them. That should keep friendly servers friendly.

*yawn* getting bored just thinking about it. Good thing I'll never play on one.

My only other solution to the fanboys is to remove voting from ALL gametypes. But I doubt that'll work, as fanboys can probably just mod the voting back in, or something similarly fascist.

Krayt Tion
04-05-2003, 09:32 PM
Rad, I can't say I understand your point.

I wasn't giving advice to Raven, I was speaking to the "competitive" players in this thread.

:confused:

shock ~ unnamed
04-05-2003, 10:00 PM
Since I run a "competitive only" server anyone who comes on my server and bows I can consider a "lamer" and ban them?

I can see it now “WTF can you believe this crap, some admin booted me just for bowing!?”


Sounds a little extreme right?

Not really.
Why?
We constantly get kicked just for playing.

And people wonder why we dislike fanboy saber noobies.

Take your codes of honor crap and stay on Omni mod servers please, we won’t bother you and you will never be plagued my masses of “lamers” ever again.

Moradivh
04-05-2003, 11:39 PM
Unnamed:
Hehehe.... ok! Now both sides can waste 90% of their time joining servers and immediately getting booted. Rince, repeat! YAY! There's equality for ya!

Damn commies.

But seriously, I wish they were reading the forums right now, and they listened to you. But they won't. They're clueless, and aren't gonna understand unless it's written in crayon for them, in-game. That's what I figure anyway.

Rad Blackrose
04-05-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Since I run a "competitive only" server anyone who comes on my server and bows I can consider a "lamer" and ban them?

I can see it now “WTF can you believe this crap, some admin booted me just for bowing!?”


Sounds a little extreme right?

Not really.
Why?
We constantly get kicked just for playing.

And people wonder why we dislike fanboy saber noobies.

Take your codes of honor crap and stay on Omni mod servers please, we won’t bother you and you will never be plagued my masses of “lamers” ever again.

Funny how you are so ready to tread the same path they have already paved for you.

Let them bow, just don't take their whining when they get a strong slash to the head for it.

Sort of like taking the higher road, n'est pas?

Moradivh
04-05-2003, 11:57 PM
Rad:

High road my ass. That's already been tried. To death. Works as good as Unnamed's plan, I expect. And the JO community's still in its death throes. Just as JA will be a year or so after release, looks like.

Maybe we should review what the "problem," is, just so we're all on the same track. Heheh.

shock ~ unnamed
04-06-2003, 12:41 AM
umm I was being sarcastic.
We only kick/ban people when they reconnect/drop other players during duel mode.

joesdomain
04-06-2003, 12:54 AM
Can someone explain to me the difference between Role-playing game and first person shooter? I always consider Dark Forces, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, and Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as first person shooter. Then again how can it be first person shooter if you are using a lightsaber and not a gun.

shock ~ unnamed
04-06-2003, 03:32 AM
In DOOM you can switch to fists, Quake an axe, any less of a FPS?
Nope.

HertogJan
04-06-2003, 03:39 AM
And you DO get to shoot things, right?? And the enemies shoot at you, whether you're holding a saber or not, right?? :p

Bacon00
04-06-2003, 06:11 AM
Unnamed, you're post about booting people who bow made me laugh... best post on this thread so far, lol!

it's so true, but some people are so ignorant that they don't see the obvious connection between that absurdly sarcastic statement and what is really going on in JO, and what WILL go on in JA unless us "competetive" players don't put up with rpg crap on non-rpg servers.

I'm all for having RPG/"friendly" servers for all the "fanboys" to go onto and enjoy themselves. They get to play the game how THEY want.

But when I go onto a public, generic server, I'm not gonna start bowing and chatting. I'm going to shoot them, and shoot them often. Or slice them.

Whatever.

But when I do this, I'll get called a "lamer" and get flamed.

That's very angering - if I flamed them for bowing and chatting, they'd be apalled.

Jolts
04-06-2003, 07:19 AM
this is what you'll get in jka, and every other star wars fps/3rd person action adventure multiplayer online game ever made from now until the end of time. It is the star wars curse.

http://www.gamingfiles.com/screenshots/7/potd/1047698763.jpg

shock ~ unnamed
04-06-2003, 07:56 AM
Perfect example here guys, recent too.

I'm sure you are all familiar with that Jedi Council map every saber only server runs.

Well I stopped by the server of the clan who made that map the other night because I was told this was the *best clan in JK2 period.


I go in and start playing a little FFA.
I take some guy out and he starts in with "You're ******* dead you noob".

I say "ok kill me then".

For the next 15 minutes I have three of them ganging up on me 3 on 1 and insulting me the entire time with profanity and general "saber noobie" like insults (gay/lamer/noob/no honor).

Score at the end?

16 me.
0 saber noobie 1
0 saber noobie 2
0 saber noobie 3

Instead of flaming back and forth with them I simply told them to chill out, it's late and not worth the effort arguing at this time of the night.

I proceed to their forums and issue a very friendly challenge for a team match between our clan and theirs.

Next day I'm in their server and I *openly ask if it is fine to attack players with sabers drawn.

They say yes and I proceed to wipe out every one of them who is fighting.

After less than two minutes I find myself being once again insulted and ganged up on.

Although this time I have an admin empowering himself because he repeatedly was unable to get the job done with out the help of his precious RPG mod.

Funny thing is after being ganged up on by 4 people, an admin who empowers himself, a member who keeps trying to kill me when I'm typing responses to his insults *I'm branded the "lamer".

Yeah me the guy who asked what the rules where and never broke a single one.

This is exactly why I hate this "honor" garbage.
Damn near 99% of the people (clans or players) who spout off about it are the biggest bunch of hypocrites when they get frustrated from losing.

The people who run off at the mouth about honor and bowing are the first ones to call you every four letter word in the book when you beat them.

But don’t take my word for it, read for your self.
Every word in that thread I stated about how they behaved (on page two) was true and not one of them denied any of it.

Yet I’m the “lamer”.

http://www.orderofthejedi.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2425&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hekx
04-06-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Jolts
this is what you'll get in jka, and every other star wars fps/3rd person action adventure multiplayer online game ever made from now until the end of time. It is the star wars curse.

http://www.gamingfiles.com/screenshots/7/potd/1047698763.jpg I'm sure Raven will make the game balanced for RPers and Gamers. If not, they'll lose out on a lot of audience and potential money income. :D
Their target audience should fit for both types of player.

ryudom
04-06-2003, 10:06 AM
that camping picture is halarious haha

Mandalorian54
04-07-2003, 05:05 PM
If we don't have a problem with people RPing in RP servers then the RPers shouldn't have a problem with us not RPing in normal servers.

I guess you can't do anything about it if your week, but I'm gonna kick any scronny RPers if they wine about my not RPing.

I don't care if they RP in a normal server, I am bothered when they wine or say we should RP. And they'dd better leave if they don't like it!

If I feel like it, I may just go into servers for the purpose of hunting RPers.

RPing is fun sometimes. But if someone is playing capture the flag and says you can't kill them if they have the flag and thier sabers down. I don't care, I'm gonna kill them anyways. And if they bug me enough I may just only kill them until they leave.

I won't kill anyone simply cuz they RPed, but if I'm tied with someone with 19 pts, and the limit is 20, your gonna get killed saber down or not!

If you put your saber down in a match, I'll wait three seconds for you to lite it up again, if you don't, good bye. It's not tag, and theres no T.O.

Rad Blackrose
04-07-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Mandolorian54
If we don't have a problem with people RPing in RP servers then the RPers shouldn't have a problem with us not RPing in normal servers.

I guess you can't do anything about it if your week, but I'm gonna kick any scronny RPers if they wine about my not RPing.

I don't care if they RP in a normal server, I am bothered when they wine or say we should RP. And they'dd better leave if they don't like it!

If I feel like it, I may just go into servers for the purpose of hunting RPers.

RPing is fun sometimes. But if someone is playing capture the flag and says you can't kill them if they have the flag and thier sabers down. I don't care, I'm gonna kill them anyways. And if they bug me enough I may just only kill them until they leave.

I won't kill anyone simply cuz they RPed, but if I'm tied with someone with 19 pts, and the limit is 20, your gonna get killed saber down or not!

If you put your saber down in a match, I'll wait three seconds for you to lite it up again, if you don't, good bye. It's not tag, and theres no T.O.

... Didn't we already establish the fact that there is a difference between RPers and "fanboys?"

Sorry mods, but this needs to be said:

Welcome to last week!

Deadeye
04-07-2003, 10:09 PM
Hey. How the hell do you bow anyway? :p



I'm not really a newb, since I've played the game since March 29, 2002. I never really got that good at MP. I was ususally near the middle of the rankings. Anyway, the RPG crap never really bothered me, but the principal is rather lame I think.

DigitalVapor
04-07-2003, 10:24 PM
Ladies and Gentleman!!! LET THE FLAMING BEGIN!!!!! BACON, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! AT WHAT POINT WAS IT SAID THAT THIS BOWING CRAP IS BEING FORCED ON YOU IN JK3??? AND WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH "RPG ELEMENTS"??? THE ONLY THING RESEMBLING A REAL RPG ELEMENT IN JK3 IS THE CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION. OUTSIDE OF THAT IT IS JUST QUAKE 3 WITH LIGHTSABERS. YOU DONT WANT TO BOW? HUNT FOR A SERVER THAT DOESNT ENFORCE IT OR START YOUR OWN! BOWING AND EMOTES ARE NOT EVEN A REAL PART OF THE MULTIPLAYER GAME!! THESE ARE THINGS DONE BY THE PLAYERS. THE EMOTES IN JK2 WERE INTENDED FOR THE CINEMATICS IN SP, SOMEONE JUST WANTED TO PLAY WITH EM IN MP. THAT DOESNT MAKE IT A DELIBERATE ASPECT OF THE GAME

[Edit Taos - Let's be nice to others shall we?]

acdcfanbill
04-07-2003, 10:57 PM
DigitalVapor, if you ever post again like that you will be placed under a ban. Firstly, all caps is discouraged almost everywhere anyone posts. It is also very inapproprate to insult other members of this board. Any more of this pseudo-flaming and name calling will not be tolerated, but still feel free to discuss the subject. Thanks you.

Gungalley
04-08-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Jedi220
What a mature attitude. Sir, I salute you. http://www.themanipulation.com/bsflag.gif *salutes*



Newbies? Excuse me sir, but if you're going in there killing everyone with no rhyme or reason, it appears that you're acting sort of newb-ish.




Whoring peeps is the way you like to play? Jeez, I don't think that's the point of the game...it may be in an FFA, but if you're dueling, then by all means no. Who respects an opponent who comes in and slashes the living crap out of everyone?



What name will you be playing under? I'd like to ban you in advance from any servers I run.

:rolleyes:


Hey im with you, these are all that makes JK2 different from CS, Quake etc...

Bacon00
04-08-2003, 01:55 AM
Vapor, I think your post and how it was written speaks for itself.

I see no reason to waste my time arguing with you.

;)

Matariel
04-08-2003, 02:24 AM
When JK3 is released, I'm killing anybody and everybody.

If you want to play like that, play quake or something, jk2 is not that kind of game.
FFA's aside, duels must be handled with some ettiquete (which these forums are sadly without lately). In a duel, saber off means dont attack, you're just a talentless weasel if you kill them like that. If the other guy doesnt budge and sits there with the saber off, walk away, terminate the duel, kill him in FFA, whatever.

Its bastards like you guys that i dont like to play this game online, if you want a fragfest, play quake okay?

shock ~ unnamed
04-08-2003, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by Matariel
If you want to play like that, play quake or something, jk2 is not that kind of game.
FFA's aside, duels must be handled with some ettiquete (which these forums are sadly without lately). In a duel, saber off means dont attack, you're just a talentless weasel if you kill them like that. If the other guy doesnt budge and sits there with the saber off, walk away, terminate the duel, kill him in FFA, whatever.

Its bastards like you guys that i dont like to play this game online, if you want a fragfest, play quake okay?

CLICK ME (http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=220541)

Matariel
04-08-2003, 07:36 AM
??
yeah, starwars galaxies, whoop-di-doo, i have heard of it.
Relevance?

As i said before, if you want a fragfest, play quake alright?
JK is supposed to be a game of skill. not a game of whoever can think of the most weasely way to quickly kill your opponent. Jedi knight was made so that people could play a jedi from star wars in a game. Have you seen star wars at all? They fight for a while in their duels, taunting each other, testing each other. Not one swing and they're dead.

And just one thing, exactly what RPG elements will be 'forced' upon us in JA? All ive heard is that you can choose the look of your character. Oh no! the RPGers have invaded! whatever shall we do!?! I must now go commit mass psycho murder in a jk2 server!

shock ~ unnamed
04-08-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Matariel
??
yeah, starwars galaxies, whoop-di-doo, i have heard of it.
Relevance?

As i said before, if you want a fragfest, play quake alright?
JK is supposed to be a game of skill. not a game of whoever can think of the most weasely way to quickly kill your opponent. Jedi knight was made so that people could play a jedi from star wars in a game. Have you seen star wars at all? They fight for a while in their duels, taunting each other, testing each other. Not one swing and they're dead.

And just one thing, exactly what RPG elements will be 'forced' upon us in JA? All ive heard is that you can choose the look of your character. Oh no! the RPGers have invaded! whatever shall we do!?! I must now go commit mass psycho murder in a jk2 server!


I have a better idea than playing Quake though.
How about I play JK3 and get really good at it like I did JK2.

This won’t be hard because people like me who play it for what it is (a game not a fantasy world to escape into) tend to get really good really fast because our sole focus is winning.

Now after I have gotten really good I will start to do what I do now in JK2:
Go onto public servers and kill every single person there regardless of whether they want me to or not.

See the nifty thing is even though these people try to stop me and really want to stop me they simply can’t. I didn’t spend the last year bowing, bitching or complaining.

I spent it playing and progressively getting better and better.

I’m not joking, you have no idea how many of us competitive players absolutely enjoy watching fanboys go nuts when we hit public servers just to mess with them.

99% of the time we don’t even have to say a single word, just kick them to death and the Caps Lock laden insults start pouring out.

Luc Solar
04-08-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Matariel
As i said before, if you want a fragfest, play quake alright?

Quake does not offer what JO/JA does. It does not have a saber or force. And I'm quite curious of what exactly a FFA is but a fragfest? Kill and score points, yes? Deathmatch?

JK is supposed to be a game of skill. not a game of whoever can think of the most weasely way to quickly kill your opponent.

And by weasely or dishonourable or lame you mean "whatever I wasn't prepared for or couldn't counter"? You do see how silly that would be, I'm sure. Secondly, what relevance does "skill" have with all this? The more skilled wins. The one with less skill ends up whining about "laming". That's how it is.

Have you seen star wars at all? They fight for a while in their duels, taunting each other, testing each other. Not one swing and they're dead.

This comparing a game to the movies-thing is really starting to piss me off. First of all: it's not a movie. Secondly: every single one of your movie-comparisons is total BS. No, A jedi and Sith do not chit-chat honourably, taunt, test each other or whatever. Remember Maul and Qui-Gon in the desert? Maul just attacked! Didn't even bow! How lame, huh? :rolleyes:

How about Maul, Obi & Qui-Gon? How many times exactly did they kneel and bow before starting to fight? How many swings did it take for any saberist to kill another one in the movies? One.

So let's just drop the whole "movie-argument". It's way beyond retarded.

...exactly what RPG elements will be 'forced' upon us in JA? All ive heard is that you can choose the look of your character.

It's not te elements that we're worried about. It's the idiots who constantly whine about anything that does not go exactly according to their OWN little Book of Honourz.

If I feel every Jedi should scratch their ass before a duel, would you find that cool? And if you said: "well, I don't want to scratch my ass", I'd reply: "WTF LAMMER NO HONOUR!" and kick you off the server.

Matariel
04-08-2003, 02:33 PM
look, i like a good game of jk2 FFA as much as the next guy, but when someone kills me while sitting perfectly still, typing something into my console, or chatting (sabre in or out) i dont take kindly to it. You cant tell me that thats a weasel kill. Please dont tell me that the strafe jumping business "separates the vets from the n00bs", it just makes you look like an idiot when u do that move, its worse than the CS bunnyhopping. It may make you go faster, granted, but it doesnt take any 'skill', so get over yourselves.
Nobody has even spoken of lightning spamming yet, but where i play its a big no-no, running into a group of already fighting ppl and killing the lot of em with lightning, thats just not on.
And what i mean by using skill to win a duel, is a fair fight. No pull-backstab kinda stuff (and i still think its good thats out now), no one shot kills. I know these are possible in jk2 with the red stance and a poor defence, but it really shouldnt be like that. One all powerful move shouldnt be allowed, its bad game design.
And about the Maul/Qui-gon/Obi-wan duel, it was pretty silent, but remember maul only had 2 lines in the whole film.
And i dont know where this bowing crap came from, i certainly dont do it (but at lans we juggle the mice up and down and start trash-talkin each other :)) but we do that stuff for FUN. Thats why people do these things, for fun. If you dont think its fun to do these things, dont play on those servers. I cerntainly will quit any server who will kill me with my saber down, or when im typing something.
But i still think people who kill like that is better suited to quake type games.
My opinions people, none of us are wrong here, we just have different opinions.
Why cant anyone in this forum be friends?!?! For about 2 weeks after it started it was fine...then the yoda model was leaked, and it just went downhill from there....

DigitalVapor
04-08-2003, 02:48 PM
Look, after what I hope was only a short tiff with he moderators about my uncharacteristicaly outspoken anger with the initial comments of Bacon00. All I have left to say is this. Dont trash a game thats not even out over somthing the game has no control over, and dont complain so much about the developers patch jobs because they only do what you ask them to. Its not right so say "fix this" then when they do say "Oh well Thats not good enough, do THIS-" And lastly, If you dont like how people play the game, play somewhere else or get over it, but shut up about it. Shoving it down people's throats only causes trouble.

Calmly Recomposed,
Digital Vapor

Rad Blackrose
04-08-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Matariel
look, i like a good game of jk2 FFA as much as the next guy, but when someone kills me while sitting perfectly still, typing something into my console, or chatting (sabre in or out) i dont take kindly to it. You cant tell me that thats a weasel kill. Please dont tell me that the strafe jumping business "separates the vets from the n00bs", it just makes you look like an idiot when u do that move, its worse than the CS bunnyhopping. It may make you go faster, granted, but it doesnt take any 'skill', so get over yourselves.

Then steer clear of the no holds barred servers and stick to the servers that have rules put into effect on them, simple.

And "strafe jumping" does require practice, and as such is then skill. Not everyone can bunnyhop.


Nobody has even spoken of lightning spamming yet, but where i play its a big no-no, running into a group of already fighting ppl and killing the lot of em with lightning, thats just not on.
And what i mean by using skill to win a duel, is a fair fight. No pull-backstab kinda stuff (and i still think its good thats out now), no one shot kills.

I took out the movie part because I was ready to bludgeon myself over the head with a blunt object.

Flash back to ye olde days of medieval warfare. Dueling existed back then. And guess what? Anything went. If you could coup de Jarnac your foe, then you won. Fairness in a duel is an oxymoron, at best.

Also, there were so many counters available during the pull/backstab era, it wasn't even funny. All I see you doing here is whining about how you can't counter a certain move. I find dueling to be like chess: It is actions and counter actions that are resolved to the death of one person (or both if the winner is bleeding pretty badly).

Absorb negates lightning, welcome to "How to play Jedi Knight II 101."


But i still think people who kill like that is better suited to quake type games.
My opinions people, none of us are wrong here, we just have different opinions.
Why cant anyone in this forum be friends?!?! For about 2 weeks after it started it was fine...then the yoda model was leaked, and it just went downhill from there....

Opinions are like *******s, everybody has one.

I am so trying to resist the temptation to flame up a storm right now...

And this didn't start with the Yoda model, get your facts straight.

Solo4114
04-08-2003, 03:17 PM
Interesting posts, overall.

This HAS been a big problem with the JO community, but it's a problem that has hit more than just the JO community. Admittedly, the RPers aren't play the game as intended, but as long as they're playing on their own servers with clearly marked rules, more power to 'em. I hope they have fun.

By the same token, people who use glitches, such as the backstab or strafe jumping or the blue lunge in mid-air, those who say they play to win and to win alone are arguably using techniques not intended for use (assuming they're bugs that haven't been coded around yet) and are ALSO not playing the game as intended. And, like the RPers, as long as they're playing by server rules, more power to 'em. I hope they have fun.

The real problem comes into play when two distinct communities come into contact. As has been stated, these communities are the competitive players and the "friendly" players. I'm also going to include the "casual" players in the "friendly" category: these are the players who do want to play the game to kill folks, who do want to play it as intended (IE: not RPing or glitching), but who are less concerned with winning, necessarily, and more concerned with having a good time independent of winning. This is the problem that plagues all of online gaming nowadays: you have people who are willing to play one way in order to win at all costs, and others who view certain tactics as BS. Who's right? Who the hell knows. Take BF1942 for example. There's a constant debate in that game about spawn camping (camping an enemy's uncapturable base and killing them as soon as they spawn). On the one hand, people say "It's not prevented by the game, and dammit, I want to win." That's often the competitive gamers. On the other hand, there are folks who say, "Spawn camping is lame and ruins the fun of the game."

I tend to fall more into the latter category, but I ALSO accept the fact that if I go onto a public server, especially an un-admined one, I run the risk of dealing with people who will be only too happy to spawn camp.

By the same token, when players, either RPers, "friendly"/"casual" players, or competitive players all meet on a public server, they should accept that you're essentially living in Thunderdome. And no, we can't get Beyond it. :) (pats self on back for obvious lame joke) We all have to accept that, on an unadmined server, the majority will rule.

That said, I'd like to propose a NEW code of honor (or honour, if you're on the other side of the pond).

1.) Do not force your playing style on someone else on a PUBLIC server.
2.) Do not vote people off of the server unless they are actually cheating in order to win.
3.) Do not vote someone off SIMPLY because the are winning.
4.) Play by the rules of the server.
5.) If you don't like the gameplay on the server, leave. If everyone's RPing and you want to frag, find a frag server, rather than sitting on the server complaining. If you want to RP and everyone's spamming the backstab move or what have you, don't sit there and say "OMFG!! LAME!! SABRE OFF = PEECE!!!" Just leave and find a server more to your liking.

One thing that REALLY helped me get over being pissed at people who use what I happen to consider lame tactics is finding a group of folks who feel the way I do and who play on a private server. It's not a clan, it's a gaming community. If you really want to have fun, find yourself a community similar to this, or form your own.

Meet on the boards, like this one, discuss how you like to play (DISCUSS it, don't flame people about it), and hopefully you'll find a group of like-minded individuals. Once you've done this, hopefully one of you will have access to a server or will find a server that shares your views. Go play there. I guarantee you'll have MUCH more fun and have much less anger about how other people play when you're playing with people who play the way you like.

In the meantime, consider everyone online as a libertarian: don't try to tell 'em how to play unless the rules of the system are set up that way to begin with.

Prime
04-08-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Solo4114
That said, I'd like to propose a NEW code of honor (or honour, if you're on the other side of the pond).

1.) Do not force your playing style on someone else on a PUBLIC server.
2.) Do not vote people off of the server unless they are actually cheating in order to win.
3.) Do not vote someone off SIMPLY because the are winning.
4.) Play by the rules of the server.
5.) If you don't like the gameplay on the server, leave. If everyone's RPing and you want to frag, find a frag server, rather than sitting on the server complaining. If you want to RP and everyone's spamming the backstab move or what have you, don't sit there and say "OMFG!! LAME!! SABRE OFF = PEECE!!!" Just leave and find a server more to your liking. Good points. And "Honour" also applies to us above the 49th parallel :)

leXX
04-08-2003, 03:35 PM
Excellent post Solo4114. I completely agree with everything you said, and it re-inforces my original post about leaving a server if it isn't to your liking. I don't understand why people constantly complain about the way people play, when all they have to do is find another server more suitable to their needs.

Mandalorian54
04-08-2003, 05:02 PM
I didn't know the back stab and strafe jump were glitches. But if you can do them, why not. They arn't cheap if evryone can do them and they don't give too much of an advantage to one player.

But servers that don't specify, I think means that they allow anything. The only rules, are the ones that the game itself enforces, like not being allowed to walk on air.

So don't wine when people RP, but don't wine when people kill you when your sabers down. If you don't want to die with your saber down, go to a specified surver. It's that simple.

Sometimes I play casual, and sometimes competative. But usually casual with a little competativeness in there.

Solo4114
04-08-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Prime
Good points. And "Honour" also applies to us above the 49th parallel :)

Damn! Forgot about you "commonwealth" folks. Oh well. 54-40 or fight, I always say. :D (P.S. Is Canada -- where I'm assuming you're from -- actually a commonwealth now or what?)

Anyway, one of the main reasons why I posted that little Hono(u)r code there, along with the suggestions to find a group of folks to play with who dig your style of play is so that we can actually have a feeling of community, even with disparate opinions. I've been able to find that in RTCW and BF1942 and it just makes the game SO much more enjoyable, especially if your server is admined well. It's even more fun to open it up to the public and bring in new people who happen to stumble across the server. Unfortunately, finding someone with the infrastructure to host a real server can be tricky (as opposed to using your own PC as a server, which really isn't viable for good gaming). Regardless, it can still be fun to get a group of folks together and go find a pub to play on. It's like being part of a clan, but without the structure of a clan (IE: no practices, no required competitions, etc.). It leaves you feeling like there really IS a community, even if it doesn't extend much beyond the group of guys you're playing with. (and as long as you've got a full server, who the hell cares what the rest of the world is doing. :) )

Tesla
04-08-2003, 06:00 PM
Yes no rpg more hacking,more slashing!! :D

Spider AL
04-08-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Matariel:

Its bastards like you guys that i dont like to play this game online, if you want a fragfest, play quake okay?I tell you what, if you don't like being fragged, go play... whatever it is thin-skinned whiner fanboys like to play.

Originally posted by Matariel:

If you want to play like that, play quake or something, jk2 is not that kind of game.Who says? You? How arrogant. You'll forgive me if I choose to ignore you. I shouldn't even be replying to this drivel this once.

Originally posted by Solo4114:

Do not vote people off of the server unless they are actually cheating in order to win.This is an invitation to fanboys to kick people off. They ALWAYS think those that win are cheating. Other than that your code of honour seems fine.

shock ~ unnamed
04-08-2003, 08:01 PM
All I have to add is boy am I going to have fun type killing some of you in around 5 months.

:D

Rad Blackrose
04-08-2003, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
All I have to add is boy am I going to have fun type killing some of you in around 5 months.

:D

*slides unnamed some money under the table*

:D

Solo4114
04-09-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
This is an invitation to fanboys to kick people off. They ALWAYS think those that win are cheating. Other than that your code of honour seems fine.

Well, true. I can remember one guy who, after 1.03 came out, was CONVINCED I had a script that turned on absorb when he attacked me. He hadn't read the readme and learned that it was just the blue glow that turned on, not absorb itself.

That said, I'm talking about someone who, say, runs around at like 50 times normal speed, someone who you shoot 5 rockets into and they don't die, etc. Obvious stuff like that. Not "Hey this guy kicked my ass four times, he must be cheating." It's not just if you THINK he's cheating. You should have other people confirm it as well.

By the same token, I should add

Don't blindly vote someone off just because someone SAYS they're cheating or what have you. Ask them to explain it, let the other person defend themselves. IF they say, "HA HA HA!! N00b!! I PwNz0R J00!!! PH34R M3!!!!" well, that's probably a good sign that they are cheating. :) If they say "What the hell? I executed the DFA twice on this guy and he was dumb enough to get hit by it. That's not cheating," then you should think twice about vote kicking. Basically, don't abuse the votekick.

shock ~ unnamed
04-09-2003, 12:46 AM
Public cheats for JK2:

1.02 server crash application.

2 open gl wall hacks (all versions).

A cvar crack to remove cheat protected console cvars for 1.04 (this is actually used heavily on Omni mod servers by some people, but fairly useless in base jk2).

*Supposedly there is a second rate aimbot floating around now but I have yet to actually see it (the file or it in use).

That's it, nothing else and I'm willing to bet 99% of the people reading this didn't even know those I mentioned even existed.


The problem with "kicking people for cheating" in JK2/3 is the way the game play tends to favor "out of the ordinary" looking combos and moves.

Sure every player knows how to kick, but go by a CTF server and ask the vets to show you quad kicking or stop by our FF duel server and I guarantee I could show you combos you have never even seen before.

How this translates into a problem is when these people go to public servers and play.

Trust me when I say we hear a lot of WTF? and YOU'RE HACKING! comments.

Luc Solar
04-09-2003, 05:48 AM
Sure didn't know about those cheats (except for the server crash).

I was playing a few days ago and it seemed this one guy could pull my weapon despite me having absorb on. I wasn't 100% sure about that though... so I called him a LamerH@xor and tried to kickvote him off the server for the rest of the game.

Just kidding. :D But seriously, has anyone experienced this? It was probably my absorb that happened to switch off all those times..or I just ran out of ammo. I dunno. I was drunk. :(

shock ~ unnamed
04-09-2003, 07:15 AM
base jk2 or a mod?
Reason I ask is Vulcan's and Jedi Academy mod have very weird push/pull physics at times.

There are times when I am dead locked on and lit up red (crosshair) and I can literally pull 5 times in a row with no result (at point blank range).

Other times I push and I'm not even remotely aiming in the direction of my target and he gets a full push effect.

I've noticed the "silent absorb" bug is pretty common in Jedi Academy mod too.

If it was base jk2 I'd say it was probably the booze.

Matariel
04-09-2003, 07:23 AM
did someone call me a fanboy?
meh, i dont care, the term was made up by some 1337 H4><0r anyways...

All im saying is that i like the saber action in the movies, and i wanna play that in the games, thats why i bought the game, thats why i still play the game, thats why i'll buy and play JA

Luc Solar
04-09-2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
base jk2 or a mod?

Vulcanus Admin mod.

But you're probably right...it was the booze. :o

yolkboy
04-09-2003, 05:15 PM
:cheers: Cheers! :guiness:

Bacon00
04-09-2003, 08:35 PM
Question - did the Jedi and the Sith *BOW* before they started fighting?!

HELL NO, they flew at each other and started hackin.

All of this bowing, saber off crap is a bunch of fabricated goosh! In the movies, if a jedi was sitting there with his saber off, he wouldn't scream out "OMG WTF LAMERZZZ!!!!!" if somebody shot him/sliced him.

Stop sayin that you're "recreating the movies" for god's sake!!!

Matariel
04-09-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
Flash back to ye olde days of medieval warfare. Dueling existed back then. And guess what? Anything went. If you could coup de Jarnac your foe, then you won. Fairness in a duel is an oxymoron, at best.
What history books have you been reading? Or havent you gotten up to that stuff in primary(elementary) school?
Duels were the most honerable ways to settle disputes at the time. There were no courts, so they challenged each other to a duel. Same weapons, same distance apart(for guns) with many people watching so no-one cheated. If someone did cheat, they were ususally finished off by the people around.
Try looking up 'Duel' or 'Duelling' in the dictionary or encyclopaedia, you'll find a lot more useful information.

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
And this didn't start with the Yoda model, get your facts straight.
Im not talking about this current dispute or RPGers vs. 'Killers', im talking about the state of these forums, that little incident got a lot of people pissed off, and made many of the good people on the forums, that contributed much to the community, leave. Thats what im talking about, so get your facts straight.

Bacon00
04-10-2003, 01:47 AM
A bit off topic, but what made me leave was 1.04.

It sucks.

Luc Solar
04-10-2003, 03:38 AM
U 1.03-lovin' BackstabWh0ringLamerz! :swear: ;)

(I hated 1.03. and 1.04 forced me to ditch the saber only scene)

SlapNut
04-10-2003, 05:15 AM
look at my sig

Luc Solar
04-10-2003, 05:49 AM
No Honourz, SlapNutty? :confused: :(

BTW - you might want to check your spelling... ("Giude") unless "screw spelling" is one of your rules too, that is. :D

Rad Blackrose
04-10-2003, 03:58 PM
Incoming rant, if you have not purchased a shock-resistant helmet courtesy of LucasForums, please do so now.

What history books have you been reading? Or havent you gotten up to that stuff in primary(elementary) school?
Duels were the most honerable ways to settle disputes at the time. There were no courts, so they challenged each other to a duel. Same weapons, same distance apart(for guns) with many people watching so no-one cheated. If someone did cheat, they were ususally finished off by the people around.
Try looking up 'Duel' or 'Duelling' in the dictionary or encyclopaedia, you'll find a lot more useful information.

I stated medieval period, not renaissance period. This is the period with longswords, not the rapier (the best choice of weaponry of fencers, back in the day). The code of Gentlemen did not come until the renaissance.

Duels back in those days were started over the pettiest things, and most of the time the accusations were false.

Thank you for reading, kthxbai.

By the way, nice subtile flame, but don't make me pull out the flamethrower.

Now, for the real rant.

----

Today, I came on the server I administrate after a bit of mapping to see what was going on, and to get in a few duels before I went back to mapping.

Two players were on the server by the name of Godiva and mtllcARMS, besides the regulars that usually hang around. mtllcARMS challenged me to a duel (please note that I was under my alias, KOS-MOS*ASC*, at the time), and I hammered his butt fair and square.

A few minutes later, Godiva challenged me to a duel, and he was one of the usual idiots. I'm talking attempted yellow undercut spamming and such. Read him like an open book. I ended to the duel by kicking him to the ground, and giving him a red slice right down the middle of him.

After the duel, I get the following words:

"You have no honor."
"I'm never dueling you again, honorless fool."

So, I responded how I read him like an open book, and that anything and everything goes in dueling on our server. He kept throwing around the honor thing, and I just /amsilenced him, and explained that I wouldn't tolerate other's people whining and coming to other servers just to force their "code" on other people. I don't force *ASC* rules on anyone when it comes to the server I administrate.

After the silence, mtllcARMS started whining up a storm, claiming admin abuse and things and that Godiva should be unsilenced. I kicked both of them.

They both came back.

Godiva started whining about honor again and claimed admin abuse.

I banned him.

mtllcARMS saw he had no avenue left to pursue, called us a bunch of fags and honorless pricks, and left before I could ban him too.

---

It has now gotten to the point that I no longer appreciate the "honor whining" crowd. These are the people who in 1.02 didn't have a clue on how to fight effectively, and instead hid behind a code thinking they were safe. Wrong boat.

I think these code boys pissed off the wrong person now.

Oh, and Solo, that code would be a godsend if followed, but unfortunately people would spinjob that worst then a "hellfire and brimstone" preacher when taking something out of context from the Bible.

Doctor Shaft
04-10-2003, 04:25 PM
Sigh... the 'honourz' code strikes again.

Having honor is good and swell, but I think one of the attributes of an 'honorable' players is his/her humility. In other words, they do not go around talking to people about honor. Honor is almost an unsaid thing. You talk about it when someone needs it to be explained to them, but then you've got a huge crowd on JO that simply throws the word around. "I say the word honor, therefore I have it and know it". In reality, they are the most dishonorable players. The most dishonorable players are the ones who speak about their honor, join some clan that preaches about it, then accepts a dueling challenge, but 'conveniently' isn't ready to fight. Ever. Pomp and circumstance. People say that the players threatening "fragfest wars" on others are rude or ruthless, but truly the most dishonorable players are the ones who do not respect skills when they see them, regardless if they think the game is of good structure or fun. If you can't win against them, even if they are using something as simple and annoying as backstab, then indeed it is YOU who should be paying respects and honor, not the other way around. And please, no replies about 'well, that's true except when they use this exploit... etc'. Yes yes, we should all know that, thanks, didn't need that explained.

Renaissaince dueling: yeah, sure, it was an honorable contest, and people were there to ensure no cheating, but at the same time, the duel was a 'serious' affair, where as the 'honourz' and bowing in JO dueling is far from it. JO is a game, Renaissaince dueling was real. Forcing people to bow to you is not honorable. That sounds more like someone is trying to glorify themselves. "I won't fight you unless you bow/pay respects" Who are you to expect that kind of treatment? Earn it first, then receive. I'm sure if we saw a renaissaince duel, it would not be plagued with 5 minutes of smiling and encouragment, followed by periodic breaks to say something. The men were ANGRY with each other. They HATED each other. The only respect they paid each other was a fair fight, and that was just to ensure that when they won, the result would be even MORE glorious. I guarentee that if they could murder each other without having to impress others or themselves, formal dueling wouldn't exist. But that ends my say on things.

Luc Solar
04-10-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
After the duel, I get the following words:
"You have no honor."
"I'm never dueling you again, honorless fool."
...
Godiva started whining about honor again and claimed admin abuse.
I banned him.
mtllcARMS saw he had no avenue left to pursue, called us a bunch of fags and honorless pricks, and left before I could ban him too.


Where are these people hiding? Seriously? I'd love for hear what they have to say. Not just a random "Ur cheap. Lamer!!" -insult right before they disconnect, but a real well thought-out post explaining what the hell they are doing and why.

Do these people only hang out on their clan forums or what?

*ahem*

If any "honourable" Jedi's are out there, please post something! Please enlighten us on how this game obviously is meant to be played. Preach your Code! Save us from our dishonourzable cheap-ass selves! :)

Mandalorian54
04-10-2003, 05:12 PM
If it's a duel, I can understand honor. But if the other person doesn't bow, why do you put your saber down and let yourself die. You just wan't an excuse to call someone a cheater and wine. If your fighting your friends, it's one thing. If your fighting complete strangers, it's another thing.

In real life, dueling is an organized method of disputing problems. But if your in a room full of people running around shooting evrywhere, and the object is to get the most points. Then hack away. That's the point.

The only time I would bow in a free for all, is if we were both waiting for the other person to make the first move, which has happened plenty.

In that case, often one will lower thier sabre and try to decieve his opponent into thinking your off guard, then pulling a move or somthing.

And somtimes both people will lower thier sabres and bow or whatever. But theres no Honor involed in a free for all with complete strangers. In real life if you walked into a blazing room would you expect evryone to stop fighting and bow to you like your some friken king?!? NO!

So for heavens sake, stop wining. It's not like by other people not bowing your rights are being taken away.

P.S. I'm not sure exactly what comon weath means.

And I think the lame RPers arn't showing cuz their too buisy playing the game, that's probably the only thing they do all day long. Friken nerds have no lives. (Not saying theyre all nerds, just some.) No seriously I know some prety cool people who RP, but they sure don't wine, or put their sabers down as an act of T.O.

Theirs no T.O. in JK! If there was, it would be called pause.

Matariel
04-10-2003, 11:16 PM
solo gave a pretty decent 'code' to follow, and i agree with it.
If you guys dont like the code of conduct on a server, quit first, then u wont complain about being kicked.

and Blackrose, yeah youre right about the medievil things, but back then it wasnt exactly a 'duel' im talking about "you have offended my honour sir! i challenge you to a duel! Rapiers at dawn!" that kinda stuff

BloodRiot
04-11-2003, 04:41 AM
I'd really like if you people would find something else to call the honor nerds other than rpgers.. it's a real offense to true rpg fans ;p

shock ~ unnamed
04-11-2003, 05:42 AM
fanboys
saber noobies
idiots
morons
cry babies
noobs
Several four letter words that would be censored out due to the forum language filters work quite well also.

And yeah the RPG term should not be used.
It’s unfair to guys like Ronin_Medjai who RPG that have a very mature and sensible outlook on gaming.

Solo4114
04-11-2003, 09:56 AM
See, here's the thing about a personal code of honor that I think a lot of people don't understand: IT'S PERSONAL. That means it's the way YOU choose to live YOUR life or the way YOU choose to play the game. It does NOT mean that you get to dictate how everyone ELSE plays.

Look, I used to bitch about the way people would play BF1942. I'd hop on to an EA public server, and witness people spawn camping. I tend to be against this tactic, as I view it as no better than shooting fish in a barrel. I tend to think this is an "hono(u)rless" tactic and that it's bad sportsmanship, as well as dangerous to your own team at certain points of the game. But that's just my opinion. I regularly play on a server that doesn't permit this tactic. I've found a group of people who share my attitudes and I find that I have a hell of a lot more fun playing with these folks than playing on public servers. That said, when I go to a public server, I accept that not everyone shares my opinion. Once in a while, if I'm getting pissed, I'll say something about spawn camping being lame and/or pointless, but most of the time, if it gets bad, I'll just quit and go to a different server, or wait for the map to end.

You can apply this same mentality to JO. When I saw people spamming the backstab in 1.03, I felt it was no better than spawn camping. It was a cheap trick to rack up kills without actually demonstrating any skill. That was my attitude, and I avoided doing the backstab because of it (except in situations where it was warranted -- IE: someone attacked me from behind). But some of this honor stuff goes too far. The sabre off = peace thing, the fact that you have to bow, etc., etc., all these things seem to indicate that people are basically complaining that "I wasn't ready." Well, if you weren't ready, don't enter the duel. Simple as that. When you decide to challenge me or come after me, be ready. I don't mind bowing, but I also don't mind if someone challenges me, then immediately begins attacking me. It's part of the game, unless the server explicitly requires you to bow first.

You know, I may have to reinstall JO and hop on a few servers just to see what the hell is going on with all this. I haven't seen a lot of this stuff in action (IE: the emote-fests, people standing around in an FFA server watching a duel and refusing to fight, etc.). I'm curious as to why people are playing this way too, and maybe I'll just go and ask 'em. Then again, asking questions may be a breach of the honor code.

Oh, one other thing. I came up with a good name for the people who try to force their style of play on others on a server that EXPLICITLY states different rules: jackasses.

Matariel
04-11-2003, 10:34 AM
true very much solo
my opinion is that a game is really fun if you feel like you're in the places it depicts and it feels like you're doing what the game depicts.
BF1942 is a classic example, ive always wanted to know what it was like fighting in ww2, BF is a far cry i know, but its getting close. Stuff like spawn camping is not 'ww2' so where i play, nobody does it, they're in for the experience of the game, not sheer number of kills.
Same goes for jk2, i dont give a rats furry behind weather i win or loose, as long as i had fun playing the game, and if some small 'RPG' elements make it more fun, then so be it.
Bowing and stuff goes too far, but i think the sabre off = no attack is okay, same goes for the floaty chatbox thingy. Its not fun if you're typing a message or changing keys and someone just blitzes past and kills you with no hope of defending yourself

Spider AL
04-11-2003, 11:06 AM
As Solo said in his most recent post, we all have different ideas about honour. I have my own, and it applies only to me and my clan. I may think many things are dishonourable, but do I whine about them? Never. Only fanboys whine.

Originally posted by Solo4114:

Oh, one other thing. I came up with a good name for the people who try to force their style of play on others on a server that EXPLICITLY states different rules: jackasses.I feel that's the definition of a "fanboy" myself. Sue me, I'm in love with the word.

Originally posted by Matariel:

Its not fun if you're typing a message or changing keys and someone just blitzes past and kills you with no hope of defending yourselfSure, it may not be fun for you. But unless it's against the server's rules as SPECIFICALLY set out in their welcome message or network website, please refrain from complaining about it.

Solo4114
04-11-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
I feel that's the definition of a "fanboy" myself. Sue me, I'm in love with the word.

Yeah, so we've noticed. ;)

Actually, I don't even mind the occasional complaint, but when someone just starts typing over and over again about it, that gets annoying. Then again, while they're typing, you can always kill 'em... :dev7:

Matariel,

I generally agree with your style of play, but I think we can both agree that forcing that style on someone when there are no server rules outlining it, would be a bad thing.

Anyway, something else I was considering: public, un-admined servers with voting enabled. I was trying to decide what's the most acceptable behavior in that kind of environment, and I think that it's pretty much anything goes. As far as voting people off goes, as a personal matter, I'd vote off people who were actually ruining the game for everyone, but that would include those who keep whining about honor as much as those who cheat or take advantage of an exploit. It's a tough call, though. On the one hand, you shouldn't go voting people off for petty stuff (IE: He keeps using the Golan!! That sUx0rz!!), but on the other, if the vast majority of the server is tired of the person's behavior... I dunno. I wish there was some way to require that, say, 75% of the people vote a person off before they get kicked. I suppose if you're worried about being voted off, you should check whether voting is enabled or not. I think there are filters for this in All Seeing Eye, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Regardless, voting enabled public no-holds-barred servers can present a real problem.

Matariel
04-11-2003, 02:28 PM
Sure, it may not be fun for you. But unless it's against the server's rules as SPECIFICALLY set out in their welcome message or network website, please refrain from complaining about it.

This is just mean, doing things that will clearly diminish the enjoyment of the game for other players. Even in servers with no set out rules, there should be a certain amount of decorum...leaving a typing player alone for one, its just fairness. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' :)

And solo, i would never 'force' my way of playing onto other people, i would simply say, 'this is not my way of playing' and change servers to one thats more my style. If im admin of a server, like at a lan or even on the internet, i would enforce my server rules and i have every right to do so.
That said- If someone is being a 'llama', i wouldnt kick them immediately, id tell them to stop whatever they are doing wrong, and leave it at that. If they keep doing it, kick. Thats fair isnt it? I usually give 3 warnings then kick, even the stupidest of player should recognise when to stop after 3 warnings. Also, this works both ways, if an 'RPG' player is playing on a no-holds-barred server and is not complying to the rules, they should also be warned..providing you can get a word in edgeways between "lamer" and "cheat" and "you have no honour!"

I should hope that if any of you guys are told by an admin not to do something on their server, you listen to them, rather than get pissed off that you got kicked, after being warned.

Dont get me wrong, i like a mass murder kinda game, but not often in jk2. So i'll join the server that has the gameplay that i wanna play, you guys should do the same. If you dont like the server, change, dont piss people off by staying and going against the grain.

*these kindly words of wisdom have been brought to you by WORDMONKEY, the wordiest monkey around*

Solo4114
04-11-2003, 02:59 PM
Please, if anyone gets the "wordiest monkey around" award, it should be me. You should see some of my posts in other threads. Someone said I'd give Dostoevsky a coronary. :)

Anyway, if you're the admin, you can do whatever the hell you want, and there's not a damn thing anyone else can do about it. I'd hope that admins are fair and polite, the same way I'd hope that ANYONE is fair and polite in general, but an admin owes the players on their server not a damn thing. The admins make the server available so that people can play on it, and the players owe the admins thanks as a result. If they can't play by the rules, screw 'em. But as an admin, you can kick someone because you don't like the color of their sabre. It's your server, and you can run it any way you like, even if that means that you act as a petty dictator. I wouldnt' want to play on a server like that, but the admin can run it however he or she sees fit.

MuRaSaMuNe
04-11-2003, 03:51 PM
If any "honourable" Jedi's are out there, please post something! Please enlighten us on how this game obviously is meant to be played. Preach your Code! Save us from our dishonourzable cheap-ass selves!

I wouldn't call it honour... I find it more common courtesy. It's like, someone walking up to you and saying hi and you just walking off... kinda rude dontcha think? The excuse 'It's just a game' is getting old... it maybe just a game, but there are real people playing it. Keep that in mind.

I am an admin on the [OoS] server and if someone doesn't bow, I don't punish them for it as long as they aren't attacking the other person during theirs. Pushing someone to do something they don't want to do is MUCH worse then not bowing.

Solo4114
04-11-2003, 06:48 PM
Would that everyone had a basic understanding of common courtesy on the internet. Unfortunately, I think that's about as likely to happen on a wide scale as the Red Sox are to win the series. :D (no offense to the Boston fans out there)

Spider AL
04-12-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Matariel:

This is just mean, doing things that will clearly diminish the enjoyment of the game for other players. Even in servers with no set out rules, there should be a certain amount of decorum...leaving a typing player alone for one, its just fairness. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' Listen mate, the question is "where do you draw the line"? I draw the line at official server rules. If a server has rules, I abide by them. If it has no rules, the game on that server has no rules. While I may have my own ideas of what's honourable and what's not, I never complain if someone else doesn't abide by my personal code of honour, and that INCLUDES getting shot while I'm typing. I never, EVER complain about it.

It's MY choice and the choice of my clan not to shoot people while they're typing. I NEVER force MY personal choice onto other players. To force my choice onto others by word, deed or whining, is the very DEFINITION of dishonour.

As for "mean", why is it mean? Who says it's mean? Just because you think it is, doesn't make it so. Just because a large group of people think it is, doesn't make it so. It's high time people got some tolerance for others online, including those with different ideas of how to play the game. Frankly, stop trying to make out that your way is the right way, or the only honourable way.

As for "diminishing the enjoyment of others", losing diminishes the enjoyment of many players. Does that mean I should stop beating them? NO. It's high time people stopped expecting nothing but fun from a game they're playing. No game has ever provided 100% fun. There's always loss, boredom and annoyance to be had from a game. That's just reality.

shock ~ unnamed
04-12-2003, 11:52 AM
\bind H say A/S/L?

Padawan: 16/M/NY

Padawan: You?

“Padawan was sabered by shock ~ unnamed”




Try it, works great.

CanadianSurfer
04-12-2003, 11:58 AM
I don't know why people keep thinking there is some universal saber code that everyone abides to. I make up my own rules.

Solo4114
04-12-2003, 12:16 PM
That's just it. There is no universal code. There's only your own PERSONAL code. Spider Al gave us a perfect demonstration there. He and his clan choose not to attack people while the typing icon is above their heads. That's their PERSONAL choice and their PERSONAL code of hono(u)r.

As far as the typing kill goes, if you're willing to type in the midst of a battle, you're taking a conscious risk that someone will attack you.

As far as the complaining goes, I don't really mind it up to a point. If someone throws in the occasional "Nice typekill" comment or "Got any other moves besides kick/backstab/whatever??" it doesn't bother me. I accept a certain amount of trash talking on a public server and will engage in it myself sometimes, especially if I get the sense that my opponent is getting riled by it. I like to think of it as psychological warfare. :) But 1.) if I'm typing and get killed, I won't really complain since it's my own damn fault for leaving myself open to attack and 2.) I won't go on endlessly about how someone has no honor because they didn't bow or whatever. There's a fine line between trash talking and whining and you really shouldn't be whining on a server with no rules. At least you shouldn't whine about the rules (or lack thereof) themselves. You can whine about the weather, America's foreign policy, Catherine Zeta-Jones' fashion sense or whatever you want. I'll just kill you while you're busy typing about it. :)

Dooglus
04-12-2003, 12:18 PM
I love this thread. I really hate the dumb rules that Jk2 players create. I usually don't kill people with their saber down, because everyone gets pissed at me and i get banned seconds later, but I never bow though, thats just gay.

The thing I hate about JK2 is how everyone gets pissed off so easily. This has happened to me about a million times where i kill someone with their saber down ONCE, sometimes even by accident, and they are pissed at me all day for it. From then on all they do is try to hunt me down to avenge their own ****ing death or something.

And I REALLY hate it when people give me **** about "honor". It may be a Star Wars game so the nerds want to pretend they're a jedi or something, but this is a first person shooter, not an RPG.

Rad Blackrose
04-12-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
\bind H say A/S/L?

Padawan: 16/M/NY

Padawan: You?

“Padawan was sabered by shock ~ unnamed”




Try it, works great.

The ol' hp question never fails, either.

Oh, and Dooglus, please read through this entire thread before making such a blatantly ignorant comment please? Thanks.

I've already had to ask a few people on that one. We've already settled the "RP question." Time to move on people.

Now, where did we leave off...

Oh, yes. Personal codes of honor. Basically, I have none. My bow is a one gun salute, my opening is an aerial strong overhead down the middle (kills in one hit, if you do it right. I've ended some duels just as they start with it). I only follow the rules of the server, and if it is a server where anything goes, you better bet your ass that I'm going to go all out.

In conclusion: psychological warfare is teh win (misspelling is intentional).