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Dagobahn Eagle
04-03-2003, 09:08 PM
After some observation of debates on the subject, and the observation that religious debates are widely accepted at this forum, I've come to the decision that this topic should be debated. There's still disagreement on this, mostly because of religion, and I feel there's room for my favourite pastime: A debate.

The question is: Should the USA support free marriage (=the marrying of whoever you want to, regarding of gender)?

Personally, yes. My first question is, why not?

On to my arguments. As I said in my Private Message to TIE Guy (Christian), in the United States of America we have religious freedom, as stated in the first amendment of our beloved (more or less) constitution:

"Congress shall make no law concerning the estabilishment of religion; or the free excersice thereof".

Personally, I think laws prohibiting girls and boys from marrying each others are ridiculous. The first amendment states that

()The government shall make no laws concerning the estabilishment of religion, or the free excersice thereof()

Doesn't this basically make a law prohibiting Free Marriage unconstitutional?

Also (this is basically a build on my last argument) I hate laws concerning marriage of girls and boys because while they are probably intended for christians who condemn marriage, they also affect christians, and followers of other religions, who don't necessarily condemn christianity. I can see how this argument doesn't make sense to countries with state religions, but the United States is not allowed to have a state religion (1st amendment, as quoted).

There'd be a public outrage and rioting if, to give examples, a Hindu leader passed a law prohibiting the eating of meat because it's against the Hindu religion. And there'd be an outrage if a Muslim president passed a law banning the drawing of the heads of religious figures. And how many Americans would approve of a law that forced all stores to close on Sundays, in faith of one of the Commandments? All these laws would be imposing, or forcing, your religious views on others.

Note that the constitution says FREE excersice, that is, excersice of religion beyond or in contradiction of what's stated in books (for example a christian ceremony where two christians marry in a church, contradicting the Bible).

I conclude with saying that I'm saddened to see such a law put in effect (or maybe rather, the lack of a law legalizing free marriage in the first place) modern nations.
I'm saddened by how you can, in many countries, shout out nazi slogans wearing a white Ku Klux Klan bed-sheet, how you can place highly offensive neo-nazi games on the Web, and other really offensive and disturbing and hurtful things, but you can't do something as trivial as marrying whoever you want, even though the Constitution (probably by accident, as they practically burned boy couples on the fire in the 17 houndreds;)) gave you that right.

You may find it perverted to look at a girl kissing a girl, but does that give you the right to take their rights away? I'm not going to force churches to wed pairs of boys (although I think this'd be covered by the Capitalist law that says that all customers have to be treated equally. The couples, after all, do pay for the ceremony). That wouldn't be freedom of religion either. All I'm saying is that if a girl couple wants to marry, and a priest wants to wed them, let them carry out the ceremony.

What I'm saying is that frankly, one of the reasons why we have separation between religion and state is that we want total religious freedom. The American constitution does guarantee us full religious freedom.

I'm not asking for a law that legalizes universal marriage, because as I've stated, we already have such a law (although it doesn't guarantee you to marry in church, but in any other place). All I'm asking is you do not infringe on that law into effect and give the people the democratic right that they are supposed to have had since that faithful day on July 4th, 1776. Thank you.

pbguy1211
04-03-2003, 09:24 PM
i agree. all gay/lesbain couples should have to go through with all the divorce BS that the straights do too! :D Why should they be spared?

Dagobahn Eagle
04-03-2003, 09:30 PM
ROFL.
Seriously, now...

Zygomaticus
04-03-2003, 09:47 PM
The only question that comes to my mind is "Why not?"

As far as I know it isn't written anywhere, historically, anything, against it. If there is, please inform me.

Dagobahn Eagle
04-03-2003, 10:16 PM
As far as I know, you can't marry. But that might just be me.
If you can, fine, I'll go persuade other people.

Zygomaticus
04-03-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
As far as I know, you can't marry. But that might just be me.
If you can, fine, I'll go persuade other people.

I was only agreeing with you.

The question is: Should the USA support free marriage (=the marrying of whoever you want to, regarding of gender)?
Personally, yes. My first question is, why not?

That's basically what I said.:rolleyes:

And in the sense of it, you can but the question is may you?;)

pbguy1211
04-04-2003, 03:17 AM
if i'm to understand correctly... you can't marry, as in a normal marriage, but they CAN have "commitment ceremonies" in some states. what about a common law marriage? if 2 dudes live together for 7 years are they considered a couple?

Heavyarms
04-04-2003, 06:22 AM
sure, let 'em marry. Makes no dfference to me.

And I'm not Gay!

Dagobahn Eagle
04-04-2003, 08:53 AM
Hey, I didn't say you disagreed, KrKode.. I think..

C'jais
04-04-2003, 11:05 AM
I didn't even bother reading your big ass post, Eagle...

...Because I frankly feel that it's ridiculous USA hasn't accepted this yet.

Freedom me arse.

Dagobahn Eagle
04-04-2003, 05:22 PM
C' jais: The many ways of saying "I agree".

I agree with you, though. In Norway, we've gotten as far as letting couples adopt children (heck, our finance minister is married to a man:)), but then again, the gender gap is ridiculously small there. Racism, on the other hand... ugh.

Just wanted to give a clear, elaborate, definite, democratic (and so on) essay on why it has to be allowed.

Thrackan Solo
07-19-2003, 12:15 PM
I feel that it isnt a "disease" and you arent born with it but it is a choice and I feel like its morally wrong, not even if your a Christian, but even if you believe in evolution the body was made for a man to marry a women. The anatomy of the human male was made to "mate" with the human female not with another male. It is a sick distortion on the laws of human nature and it shouldnt be allowed.

Zygomaticus
07-19-2003, 02:13 PM
Thracken, you have a point there, but apart from what Christianity or other religions say, perhaps every concept of :evolution: doesn't apply to humans anymore. Like, for example, the sole purpose of a male lion, the factor that defines his "fitness," in life is to mate and have as many children as he can - pass on his genes. When it comes to humans, that's not the only thing we care about. I think, it has been generally agreed upon by those who believe in evolution and its theories that survival of the fittest plays a role in their success. That too doesn't seem to apply to humans anymore, because even though the strongest, most muscular men get a lot of women, they don't get 'em all. ;)
So perhaps this too is one concept of evolution that doesn't apply to humans anymore. Perhaps, that one must use his/her sexual organs to reproduce and have as many children as possible, isn't what describes a human's "fitness," as described in animals.

lukeiamyourdad
07-20-2003, 06:12 PM
Now now people we have arrived in the 21st century. We need to move on ahead. Gay and lesbian marriages should be totally legal. If you look at it...who do they hurt? No one. It even makes me happy to see a happy couple.
Marriage is about love not how human bodies were created. The conception of ''that's how the humans were made to do'' is basically a religious belief ( I'm not saying that god exists but I'm not saying that he doesn't neither). If we go through that kind of perception then it is true that humans were created that way. But I believe that humans have grown a lot beyond the influence of a few men who said white and we had to say white 'cause if we say black we get out heads cut off.

Humans have evolve to the state of being the world's destroyer to the world's protector (how we polluted the crap out of the world, corrupted it, turned everything into one huge nightmare and now trying to repair it). Accepting gay marriages is one such step forward for a better diverse world. I tend to see that people opposed to this are racists(not pointing finger at anyone).

A good example of this, probably the best, is how the ancient Greek lived. Since women in that society did not have any rights and could not even go out with their husbands, they stayed inside never partying or anything. So what do the men do with each other when they get an itch down there? You get the picture.

On the other hand I don't think the US will ever legalize gay marriages. Such a conservative country won't legalize it until some time. Heck, in some states it's illegal to hmmm...do it with another man. It will take a lot of time for this to reacj the United States...it already has a hard time passing through Canada!!! And forgive me but we're more open minded...

TieDefender75
07-20-2003, 09:36 PM
I really don't agree with gay (can i call them that?)marriages. But, i believe it should be allowed. They are people who believe that what they are doing is right. They have the same mentality as any other couple, except it's towards the same sex.

Personally, i dont get "gay" people. But, they too, are humans, and they deserve the same rights as everyone else.

lukeiamyourdad
07-21-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by TieDefender75

Personally, i dont get "gay" people.

Probably as they don't get us heterosexuals...
And don't be homophobic. Talk to them. I've met quite a few homosexual persons and they are really ok. They're just like you and me or him or her! It's like someone not having the same right as others just because he doesn't like to eat spaghetti or something...

TieDefender75
07-22-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Probably as they don't get us heterosexuals...
And don't be homophobic. Talk to them. I've met quite a few homosexual persons and they are really ok. They're just like you and me or him or her! It's like someone not having the same right as others just because he doesn't like to eat spaghetti or something...

I have a gay friend (im not gay)

He's extremely funny...as long as he doesnt try anything gay on me, he's my friend.

lukeiamyourdad
07-23-2003, 07:32 PM
He won't. As long as he knows you're straight.

griff38
07-30-2003, 02:39 AM
Pleasant suprise reading this 1.


I sure will be glad when the generation represented by the thoughtful post here is running the place.


That is if my gen and the olders ones don't ruin it 1rst.

Zygomaticus
07-30-2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by griff38
Pleasant suprise reading this 1.


I sure will be glad when the generation represented by the thoughtful post here is running the place.


That is if my gen and the olders ones don't ruin it 1rst.

We're all capable of thoughtfulness, my friend :)