View Full Version : Is Q3A the right engine?

04-04-2003, 07:35 PM
A lot of people are worried that the limitations of the Quake3 Arena engine are too numerous for a "new" game. For example, the graphics are starting to appear a tad dated (comparatively), and Q3A doesn't like huge outdoor areas all that well (I build City of the Ancients, I know :D), which could mean that we might miss out on some awesome planetside battles. I know Q3A can be expanded upon (hey, they got a lightsaber in...and EF2 is supposed to feature models with more points of articulation, etc), but...well, what do you think, should they have gone with another engine, or even built their own? I wouldn't have minded waiting another few months if the game at the end was worth it. Is this going to come across as "JK2 in different colors," or what?

04-04-2003, 07:43 PM
Yes it is the right engine.

04-04-2003, 09:12 PM
I can't think of any other engines right now so I think it's fine;)

04-04-2003, 09:48 PM
Well, I think it is.......if we want the game to come out this quickly. :)

Now I've heard something about a Q4 engine in the works......*shrugs* It's inevitable I guess......

Jedi Apprentice
04-04-2003, 10:04 PM
It did the job for JO and they said for Jedi Academy they did heavy modifications to the engine so I have no doubt it will handle the job great. :)

04-04-2003, 10:14 PM
Like Outcast, like "sequel" (though it's not completely a sequel. Katarn is not the main character as you all know)(suggestions for replacement of "Outcast" in that phrase are welcome ;)). It is the right thing. JK2 was a modified Q3A and so should it's sequel.

I think I heard they helped the engine ease it's problem with big, open, spaces.

About the rest of the series, which I heard Lucasfilm registered sites for (JKIV.com JKV.com), I dunno.

04-05-2003, 02:29 AM
I believe that for what they are doing for the mean-time, the Q3A engine will suffice since they have been able to really find out what the engine can handle out in the modding world, and allows them to tweak it more to their liking, as well as ours. Hopefully though with the success of D3 and UT2k3, a new improved engine will be considered for the future of Jedi Knight series.

04-05-2003, 02:50 AM
Yeah the engine is fine:

- They know the engine very well now, so do the modders
- You can port JKII skins/mods/maps etc. easily
- The engine is heavily tweaked, screens look good
- This way, it can be released very soon, I believe the release date of fall 2003 will be met!

But the next JK game should be on the doom III engine, that'll look GREAT!! (even greater than JA)

04-05-2003, 05:27 AM
It's no doubt understandable that a few modders and other people who know the Q3A engine very well are a little bit conservative, and are naturally afraid that some of their vast knowledge will go to waste if the engine changes. However, in the big game of evolution to stop changing is the same as dying out.

04-05-2003, 06:41 AM
When it came to making JKII, if I remember correctly, there was some deliberation about whether the Q3 engine would be the right one to use, and look how that turned out: one of the best looking games ever made, IMO (for that time). I think they will have to push the graphics of this game to the very limits, and make absolutely full use of the Q3 engine. It'll be okay, I have faith in LucasArts;)

04-05-2003, 06:51 AM
If most JKII files are compatible with the game, then yes.
I personally like the engine. Since I know how it works and tweak commands.
I don't really want to re-learn an entirely new engine.
So, yes, stick with the good old Q3 engine with funny bots. :D

04-05-2003, 06:56 AM
I think it depends on the scale of improvements to engine. In JO we had some great ones like the saber system, GHOUL 2, all the Force stuff, Icarus, but unfortunatelly the graphical aspects were practically intact. To be honest there were some minor improvements, developed by Raven for Elite Force or SOF2 but still the major flaws of Q3 engine wasn't dealt with. I'm refering to complete lack of dynamic lighting and some outdoor improvements like distance clipping using fog (AFAIK something like this was used in Medal of Honor). Now we'll get some new terrain system from SoF2, which is great and I hope it'll do.
But still, the lack of dynamic lighting (I know, it's hard to fix concerning the need of complete rebuild of the renderer) is the main problem.

Anyway all I want is much bigger scale of the levels. I think the map achitecture was the main problem in JO, and the reason why I still prefer JK and MotS single player to JO's one. Which doesn't mean that JO wasn't great :D.

04-05-2003, 07:23 AM
It sure is the right engine. Raven's got a lot of experience on working with the engine and they know it inside and out by now. They know how to make it work right and look good at the same time. Sure, some newer engine would make the graphics nicer, but learning to work with that engine would take a lot more time than just a few months (some new Unreal or Doom engine weren't made with lightsabers in mind, you know. I know, neither was the Q3 engine, but now that Raven got lightsabers to work in it, why change it?) Besides, gameplay is the key-issue, not some fancy moster with way too much bump-mapping.

04-05-2003, 07:42 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Q3 engine imo. Worked fine for JK2 and with all the improvements they are making to it, I'm sure it will work fine for JA too.

04-05-2003, 08:24 AM
Like, i've said before, the older the engine the more people have access to it meaning a bigger community.
It didn't do jk2 any harm and i don't really bother much about eye candy.

Bilbo Skywalker
04-05-2003, 08:47 AM
at least with this engine we can still strafe jump, i think with all the diehard CTF'rs like me it would be sorely missed. :)

04-05-2003, 10:16 PM
From what the makers are saying, they are probably gonna go back after JA and make a real JKIII with the DIII/QIV engine. COME ON...WE WANT RAGDOLL TECH!

04-06-2003, 05:45 PM
Well... They were able to add lightsaber combat into it... and pretty complex lightsaber system at that. judging by that alone, it seems to me they can make pretty much anything they want out of the Q3 engine... I'm just worried about the things they don't change.

Maybe it's just the way they made the game... maybe they wanted to make it that way, but JO just seemed to be lacking in certain aspects... which I (falsely?) acuse the Q3 engine of. I think the physics seems totally off. The way lasers connect with their target just feels wierd. Too many hits are missed, even when it appears that a laser struck the target dead on. Especially when firing with a fast weapon. Second, everything just feels kind of "floaty". What I mean is, when you run, or strafe you seem to glide for a bit after releasing the key. I'm sure everyone notices it when they strafe in third person. Next, the movement physics seem to not be too flexible. I wish I could make a more concrete acustation, but I can't. In JK1 I felt like I could manuvier in much more fluid ways... in JKII (the force jump covers this up a bit) I feel like if I can't reach a certain the first time, I'll never reach it no matter what I try. Lastly, the physics engine in JO seemed very primitive. The most we have in terms of manipulating of the environment is in the form of exploding walls, cielings, and boxs that can 'slide' when force pushed. Even Old Obi-Wan for the PC was going to have a very advanced physics engine. Heck, even JK1 had better physics with 'force debris'.

I don't know... I just hope JA is the last game in the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series to use an engine that isn't homemade.

04-06-2003, 05:53 PM
yeh, JK used the xwing engine for physics but it actually made it better physics.

04-06-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Finalnight
From what the makers are saying, they are probably gonna go back after JA and make a real JKIII with the DIII/QIV engine. COME ON...WE WANT RAGDOLL TECH!

With the game at 60% completion and their fall release date, it would devastate the overall opinion for them to have to go back through the game to convert the scripting and and ICARUS to a new engine, plus the Raven team, seeing how well the Q3A engine went, decided to go with it since they better learned what they could do with the engine. However, I do feel that once the Doom3 engine hits the market and Raven possibly can play with it, they might be able to get their hands on it to tweak it for even better gameplay and map designs, and better support overall.

04-06-2003, 06:36 PM
I think, that he meant do a jk3 with a kyle katarn to be done with the unreal engine.
If Raven were to do it it would probably be the D3 engine like Andy says since they always use Id's engines it seems.