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View Full Version : Stealth?? In or out, make up your mind.


toms
04-07-2003, 01:12 PM
Well, they said that stealth would play a part in JKii, and then it pretty much didn't. What implementations there were turned out to be rather pointless and useless.

That stun batton was a waste of time. There was no reason to walk, ever. etc...

SO, do you think they should do it properly with areas where you need to sneak quitely and knock people out, use mind tricks tactically etc... or should they just say sod it and make the game a full on action game and dump the stun baton etc... ?

It would be nice if force seeing had a proper, look through walls effect at higher levels. if they could manage it in deus ex.

Deadeye
04-07-2003, 01:22 PM
yes they should include stealth. The thing they need to do, is have to where you have your saber out with out igniting it. Then you could move from cover to cover and plan your attack. The saber is a rather loud weapon, so once you go for it, I think that most bad guys in the area would hear it. But force powers like grip and push, might be cool.

It would be cool to choke a guy and then throw him out into where the other guys are and then they all freak out looking for you.

Or you push a guy off a ledge and the others hear him scream as he falls. This would be the equivalent of throwing a bottle or can in Deus Ex or Splinter Cell to distract enemies. -Aim your force push at one guy in one area, and then toss'em. All the other run over to see what that horrible scream was. Then you walk on by, or push the rest of them off, or what ever you want.

Allowing the player to get really creative in their choice of attacks is really important I think.

AlzWisHum
04-07-2003, 02:19 PM
Sneaking is cool, but only sometimes when you feel like it; JO featured some sneaking, but it was mandatory.

I'd rather choose my tactics, not be made to that as a mission objective.

Prime
04-07-2003, 02:27 PM
I agree with the fact that you should be able to choose your own strategy, but sometimes I wish I could just sneak around a la Obi-wan instead of just "rambo-ing" my way through the game. I don't think Jedi are supposed to leave a path of destruction in their wake :)

AlzWisHum
04-07-2003, 02:42 PM
I agree 100%.

Agen
04-07-2003, 02:45 PM
I think there are good possibilities but i thoguht it was quite poor when it was included in jk2.

HertogJan
04-07-2003, 02:51 PM
Well the cairn_bay was nice for a change, but it was way to easy at some points...

I liked the room with 3 ppl in it, where you had to jump up on a ledge to turn the generator field of. I choked the ppl to death, it's really cool :D And the most silent way :)

So a little more stealth could be nice, but not too much please!!

Deadeye
04-07-2003, 02:54 PM
Yes please Raven, no more obligatory stealth mission! JO had one, and it sucked! EF2 has a little bit better one, but aren't we better developers than this? Integrate gameplay and make it flow naturally. Not like in JO. That level really put a wrench in the works of the flow of the game. I'm glad that when I replay the game (as I've done many times) I can, in fact just kill everyone as they approach the alarm console.

eastcoast2895
04-07-2003, 03:33 PM
i think stealth would be good, only as an option though. cuz if your stealth is broken, your a jedi you can handle it if the stealth is broke.

ryudom
04-07-2003, 05:18 PM
it would be cool if walking was silent and you could knock people out with your fists

CanadianSurfer
04-07-2003, 05:21 PM
Mind Trick is your best friend. :)

wedge2211
04-07-2003, 06:54 PM
It would be really cool to have more stealth-based missions or missions where you could easily choose stealth over a full-out unleash-the-force assault (hmmmmm...I sense a deciding factor in lightside vs darkside...). It would be especially cool if they could implement things like crawling, scaling walls, etc...

Tesla
04-07-2003, 07:06 PM
erm,they did have stealth in JK2-the Jedi Mind Trick is used to confuse large groups or a single enemy thus allowing you to sneak in unnoticed :D

Pedantic
04-07-2003, 07:21 PM
It would be nice if you could choose your tactics, as basically everyone in this thread has said. ;) :D

CanadianSurfer
04-07-2003, 09:00 PM
You could use speed to your advantage if you were fast. Just fly by your enemies since StormTroopers are very dumb in the game (I'm referring the SP).

Tesla
04-07-2003, 10:52 PM
you think stormtroopers are dumb more like reborn are !!
my own opinion of course ;)

Prime
04-07-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by CanadianSurfer
Mind Trick is your best friend. :) So true!

Matariel
04-08-2003, 12:29 AM
'stealth' isnt really a thing jedi do very often...theyve got more of a james bond feel to them..like obiwan on kamino, "the names' wan, obi-wan" ya know :)
the jk2 'steath' bits are enough for me...i hope you're not suggesting an invisible mode, cos thats just not cricket


(ermm, ppl from countries outside the british commonwealth may not get that joke)

coupes.
04-08-2003, 12:56 AM
maybe it's gonna have something to do with your force alignment, i mean killing everybody on a map would bring you closer to the dark and sneaking and avoiding killing people for nothing would bring you close to the light.

AJL
04-08-2003, 10:49 AM
I think YES... (the primary) way to play should steathy but not
like that one mission in JK2 where if you have been spotted
then GAME OVER...

They should make it so that normally enemies aren't aware of
you (they aren't waiting for you) or they don't consider you as
enemy... but then when someone sees you in place where you
are not allowed to be or... (you get identified to be enemy)
and if that guy can alarm others then from that point forward
enemies should be waiting for you, they should be looking for
you, there should be more of them, ...

(And you you can kill as many peoples as you want but i think
they should make it so that more peoples you kill, harder the
game gets...)

(and in some "imperial" bases or.... you shouldn't be able to
kill all enemies... basically it should go so that when you kill
one they send two more... soo if you just keep fighting
sooner or later you will lose...)

toms
04-08-2003, 11:10 AM
it did seem in JK2 that everyone was just standing there waiting to attack me. Often you would be wandering towards a room and you would hear a chorus of "there he is! stop him!" type comments. Then the MOMENT you stepped into the room they would all be standing there shooting you... had they nothing better to do???

the only time i ever used mind trick was to give me time to slice people up.... it was never a valid tactic to do an obi-wan (in a new hope) style "noise to distract them while you sneak past".

jedis seem to do a lot of sneaking and misdirection in the films... they just get caught a lot.

i agree though... mandatory stealth mission - bad. gameplay options = good.

and if you give me a stun batton... give me a reason to stun people....

boinga1
04-08-2003, 03:25 PM
An optional steath mission/missions, yes. I DO NOT like forced stealth, especially not after playing SPIDER-MAN THE MOVIE. Has several awful stealth levels. Personally, I think improving Mind Trick would be a good idea, as far as it relates to stealth.

SithLord13
04-08-2003, 09:59 PM
Surprise is the way of the sith

MattJedi
04-09-2003, 11:15 PM
Man the stun Baton was a pretty stupid weapon, they should have just left fists so you could knock the stormies out!

StormHammer
04-15-2003, 08:40 AM
I don't want to bust your bubble, people, but at the moment, according to the recent PCGamer article, Raven will not be focusing on stealth elements. They have ditched the 'stealth levels' seen in JO, and they are not going out of their way to allow you to play stealthily through any of the other levels. Pretty much the only stealth tool you will have at your disposal is the Jedi Mind Trick, which as far as I can see will offer very limited stealth tactics at best. :(

I do think it's a shame that they won't be designing levels specifically with stealth in mind. As we've seen in the movies - particularly Episode I - stealth can be a Jedi's best ally at times, and I would have thought that would be especially true for a Padawan. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, of course, but I'm already disappointed by this decision.

pakmannen
04-15-2003, 11:38 AM
Anyone played Hitman 2? I think that one shows some really great level design. You can complete the levels without having to kill anyone but the target (you are a hitman, so that's kinda obvious really..), but you're also a one-man army, and can go around and kill everyone in the whole level. Deus Ex is also a good example at this. You should be able to choose your way of playing!!

Personally, I don't think jedi's are supposed to run around and kill everything in their way. And neither should Sith's, that would only blow their cover (Okey, there isn't many sith lords in those games but anyway). It's just plain stupid. Oh, and the fact that almost every creature you meet is an enemy is also kinda dumb. More civilians I say!

The Seeker
04-15-2003, 03:53 PM
I completely agree about the civilian thing. JKII had basically no neutral civilians. And as I said in another post, if they would just implement a usefull stealthy weapon, then I would be happy. Like a silenced slugthrower would be a non energy based quiet weapon with enough range that you don't have to be right with the enemy to use it. And, it is canon with SW anyway, even if it is old school in it.

Just my 2 cents

MattJedi
04-15-2003, 11:15 PM
Jedi's never kill everything, there keepers of the peace, not soldiers, Sith don't either, they are even more stealthy then the jedi, there is only two of them at a time and they only come out once and a while when it is the right time to catch jedis or there targets off gaurd. So yeah really there should be the option to sneak around behind enamies instead of an all out war all the time.

Doctor Shaft
04-16-2003, 02:54 PM
Stealth would be nice as an option, and also an allignment to the Force kind of thing. Hatred and power, or doing what has to be done, peaceful jedi.

However, that won't be the case. I never did like the fact that in JO and JK, I could disarm people, make them run for their lives, but then I could also mercilessly destroy them. It was like "is there a reason as to why I killed them". Technically, you can play the peaceful jedi in JO and most likey JA as well. Force pull is the key, just tear the weapons away, and if they pick em back up, well then I guess you gotta dispatch... or just run away. However, there is no reward or suitable justification for that, which is disappointing.


A word on the Sith and stealth:
YOU ARE, AND NEVER SHALL BE, A SITH IN ANY OF THE DARK FORCES GAMES. THE SITH ARE DEAD. THE RULE OF TWO IS NO MORE.... JEREC WAS NOT A SITH, NOR WERE ANY OF HIS PEOPLE. Stealth and Sith don't go together... because they don't exist! They died on the Death Star. Tradition is dead. :p Also, if stealth was Sith and Jedi quality, we are right back to square one. Why should stealth be in the game if it doesn't make a difference as to what my character is? I guess that's the primary reason Raven is leaving that part out. Everyone is going to think of themselves as a Sith while playing, or something. Well, to each his own, right?

MattJedi
04-16-2003, 03:55 PM
The Sith arent totally dead are they? Correct me if im wrong but In EU palpatine brings jedi to the dark side, as well as luke doesnt he? I havn't read expanded universe at all but I picked up that much. As long at palpatine is floating around the potential for a sith rain of terror is very likely. :D

boinga1
04-16-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by MattJedi
Jedi's never kill everything, there keepers of the peace, not soldiers, Sith don't either,

woah woah woah. Hate to burst your bubble, but sith DO kill, very much infact. Whenever A Sith has the choice, I would think, he kills. Whenever he does, he is not stealthy.

And believe you me, Jedi kill. Jedi kill.

MattJedi
04-16-2003, 06:14 PM
Jedi's try to negotiate whenever possible and if that doesnt work it usually results in a fight, sith don't go around killing everyone, that doesnt really aid there purpose, there purpose was to ilimate the jedi order and in oder to do that they had to stay on the down low. If they went around killing everyone the jedi would be on to them in no time!

SithLord13
04-16-2003, 06:23 PM
well you dont really need stealth just use the jedi mind trick on everyone like obi wan and luke ;)

HertogJan
04-17-2003, 09:22 AM
Mind trick only works on the weak minded ;) Oh and Jedi DO like 'agressive negotiations' (fighting ;))...

taekwondo joe
04-17-2003, 11:59 AM
no stelth, just mindless, killing, thats all, walk around, chop sueey the enimy, nothing that actually requiers you to a, think :fire3: :laughing:

sheared
04-20-2003, 08:37 AM
They need to incorporate some Deus Ex game-play into each mission. The player should be able to choose how to accomplish the said goal.

For instance: A "Quake-loving" player could buff up on tank killing force powers that allowed him to blow through a level just like most levels in JK II. A "Thief-loving" player could buff up on force powers that allowed him to sneak through the level with a minimal amount of killing (in a more Jedi manner in my mind). And then there could be the more balanced approach of a little bit of sneaking mixed in with the appropriate amount of killing.

Selection of force powers SHOULD make this possible. It just depends whether or not the developers want to spend the time ensuring each level is open-ended enough to allow more than the "kill everything" approach.

One thing I do hope they bring back from DF:JK are the neutral NPC's -- People you can kill if you are evil and those you don't have to if you are good (or can even protect in that case).

pakmannen
04-22-2003, 05:17 PM
Amen.

Blademaster_109
04-22-2003, 07:09 PM
i think there should be at least 1 stealth mission except that if u get caught the mission is not over but the alarm goes off and it just gets harder.

Master_Payne
04-22-2003, 08:09 PM
As for Stealth, I want it to be a full game "option", with several instances where you can sneak instead of fight, I want two things for this: 1- force seeing on SP, and hopefully noiseless, so no-one on the other room can hear the vision sound. 2- take off the footsteps sound when walking, so you can play stealth whenever you want in some point of the stage.
If stealth goes in it may work only against non force-sensitive enemies (mercs, imperials (hope they're in)). those bad guys in the screenshots may be able to sense so stealth doesn't work against them.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
04-22-2003, 08:16 PM
I have to say that since this is supposed to be a Star Wars game, where Jedi are supposed to uphold peace, be great protectors etc, that a game where you have to use your brain makes far more sense, afterall everyone wanted to be a Jedi after making a big fuss about the guns in JK2.

I'm sure Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were the exceptions in preferring aggressive negotiations rather than the norm....

From what i've heard so far JA seems to be mindless saber battles, I prefer mindless battles to be restricted to multiplayer, I want to use my brain in a singleplayer game.

MattJedi
04-23-2003, 11:55 AM
They didn't prefer aggressive negotiations, If jedi are faced with a battle they have to fight, look at the start of Episdode 1 as a prime example of a negotiation getting out of control, they defended themselves and tried to get in at the viceroy to make them disingage the blockade but when **** hit the fan with the droids they had to use stealth to warn the Naboo of the attack.

StormHammer
04-25-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
I prefer mindless battles to be restricted to multiplayer, I want to use my brain in a singleplayer game.

I totally agree. While it might be an action-FPS title, I would strongly argue there is a great need for more thought-provoking gameplay elements, especially stealth, and stealth-oriented puzzles and dynamics. However, the point is moot, because Raven have already stated they are not focusing on stealthy gameplay with this title.

I just hope they consider it for any further sequels that might arise...

taekwondo joe
04-26-2003, 12:13 PM
i like puzzels, just not stleath, puzzels like jk, those were cool, but not stleath, i never do well with stelth