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toms
04-07-2003, 01:19 PM
So, did anyone else think some of the force powers were very unbalanced in Single player?

Pull, and speed especially seemed very unbalanced. Most of grunts could be beaten easily by pulling their gun away. And slowing things down in saber fights was a very easy way to make them a one sided affair.

If pull is going to stay the same then can we at least have some counters for the grunts... when they get their weapons pulled away they should at least be able to fight with fists (it was in MotS) or pull out secondary pistols or knives.

As for force speed, this should have a much shorted duration... like 3 seconds, and then take a long time to fill up. Some enemy jedi should also be able to cast it, working as a counter and effectively turning it off.

eastcoast2895
04-07-2003, 01:46 PM
i dunno really, it seemed alright to me, cuz bad guys are suppose to suck compared to jedis

AJL
04-07-2003, 02:21 PM
I don't see any problems with push/pull in SP...

But yes speed made saber duels much easier...

----------------------------------------------------------------

Force changes i think should be made:

1. Mindtrick, speed, push, pull and grip should have
CLEARLY weaker effect when used betweem siths
and jedis "force users"...

2. Lightning should be more directional "beam like"
but successful attack should be much more effective
(it should knock and keep down, and push away...)

3. They should add saber lightning block (Obi EP2)
which is used when jedi is not VERY powerfull yet

4. They should add force lightning absorb/reflect
(Yoda EP2) which is used by experienced jedis

5. They should make new/better telekinetic abilities

6. They should make new/better mindtrick stuff...

Force changes i think should NOT be made:

1. New force fire ball throwing...

2. New force supernova explosion power...

3. New force mutation power

4. New force teleportation power

Prime
04-07-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by toms
So, did anyone else think some of the force powers were very unbalanced in Single player?

Pull, and speed especially seemed very unbalanced. Most of grunts could be beaten easily by pulling their gun away. Being able to pull all the guns of everyone in the room did make things a bit easy in parts, but as has been mentioned, Jedi are much more powerful than stormtroopers.

Deadeye
04-07-2003, 02:39 PM
My force suggestions

1. Push needs to get those guys up in the air more. In JO the animations were as if an invisible rod, just swept the legs out from behind. It also looked like they slipped on a wet floor. It is incredibly thrilling to be able to throw a guy up into a wall. That's why I use grip then toss'em. Also, give more damage to non-armored enemies that you ram into a wall. Especially face first. Or at least have them get up more slowly.

2. Make lightning as suggested before, more beam like, not as powerfull, make it push the guy up and away. Just follow E2 rules. Since this is Jedi Academy, this force power maybe should be reserved for the very end of the game, or maybe somehow hard to use. Afterall it is a Jedi Master technique

3. Add force throw. Throwing objects into enemies. In the animation make it so your character points in the direction of the object and "aims" the object at the guy. See E2

4. Pull needs to be aimed like in JK1. It should only pull weapons out of hands. It makes sense that if you could push a bunch of enemies that you could pull them too, but it was lame to knock everyone down then walk up to every enemy on the ground a kill them all. This would allow for more strategy. -Pull the more heavily armed weapons away first, etc. It would give the player more creative leeway (sp?) in planning attacks, especially when stealth is added to the game. -Sneak around and pull out the heavy weapons, then jump in and strike!

5. Speed was kinda cool, but lets leave the bullet time alone for once in a game. It was too easy to kill reborn and everyone else with it. The speed from JK1 was fine. Have it be used in conjunction with jump in order to cross large casms. -Like JK1

Also change the sound effects for push and pull. Give it that movie sound where there is a rumbling bass sound. See E1 & 2

AJL
04-07-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Deadeye
My force suggestions

2. Make lightning as suggested before, more beam like, not as powerfull, make it push the guy up and away. Just follow E2 rules. Since this is Jedi Academy, this force power maybe should be reserved for the very end of the game, or maybe somehow hard to use. Afterall it is a Jedi Master technique

JEDI MASTER ??? I wouldn't say that...! :mad:

Lightning is absolute pure evil sith power where
incredible anger/rage is focused forming a beam
of energy...

(it shouldn't be used by lightside guys at all in any
level and even in dark side it should be available
only when you are on "MASTER" level...!)

Deadeye
04-07-2003, 03:36 PM
Oh, I agree, it is a sith power. I wasn't talking about it in terms of light and dark side. I meant that it was a skill that only a master would be able to do.

StormHammer
04-15-2003, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by toms
So, did anyone else think some of the force powers were very unbalanced in Single player?



I can't say that I did. They all felt okay to me, although I'm sure they'll be tweaking them slightly anyway this time around.

What concerns me more is which Force powers will be considered neutral, which Light side and which Dark Side.

It looks like Speed and Jump at least will be neutral powers.

Drain, Absorb and Seeing are making their way back into SP.

Seeing was a neutral power in JK's SP, and Absorb was Light side. Drain is obviously Dark Side.

Pull was also neutral in JK, but Push is more like the Force Throw power in JK, and that was Dark Side only. Should Push now become a neutral power, as in JO it counters Grip? Also, we've seen good Jedi (Obi-Wan, Qui-gon) use Push in Episode I.

Lightning and Grip were definitely Dark Side powers in JK, and I think they should remain Dark Side powers in JA's SP. I hope they don't bring back Destruction or Deadly Sight.

In JK, the Light side powers included Healing, Persuastion (now Mind Trick), and Blinding (not present in JO) in addition to Absorb.

The problem lies with Mind Trick in that line-up. Should that also now become a neutral power? Or should it remain Light side only, and you have to do without when playing Dark side?

I would hazard a guess that the line-up of Force powers in SP would be something like...

NEUTRAL

Speed
Jump
Pull
Push
Seeing

LIGHT SIDE

Heal
Mind Trick
Absorb

DARK SIDE

Drain
Lightning
Grip

Anyone agree, disagree with that line-up?

Prime
04-15-2003, 12:08 PM
I'd love to have seeing back in SP. It would be great to get a sense of who is around you and what enemies are behind the next door and so on. I love it in MP, and think it would be great in SP as well.

Taos
04-15-2003, 12:17 PM
I like your list Stormy, I think they should try to keep it short/simple. If you have too many different force powers to choose from......it just becomes too much IMO.

StormHammer
04-15-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Leemu Taos
I like your list Stormy, I think they should try to keep it short/simple. If you have too many different force powers to choose from......it just becomes too much IMO.

I tend to agree with you there, especially considering there are 3 levels per Force power as well. That was one thing that did bug me in JO's SP...you couldn't really choose the level of each Force power you wanted to use later on - you were pretty much stuck with the higher level of each power. Jump was quite tricky later on for that reason - even a quick tap sent you quite high. It's a shame there isn't a way of picking level 1, 2 or 3 for a power in a given situation.

Anyway, the powers I listed are already in JO...and they mentioned they were adding some new Force powers. It would make sense to me to round off the Dark and Light side powers, so there is an equal number to the neutral powers (if that's the line-up). So if they add 2 more Light side and 2 more Dark side, that should give you about 10 Force powers in total. If you can then combine them...well, that's a lot of Force. :D

Blademaster_109
04-15-2003, 07:14 PM
My question is will u be able to be a mix of both sides like have: mind trick, heal, lighting, and grip cause those are my 4 favorites.

boinga1
04-15-2003, 10:37 PM
SP powers r supposed 2 b unbalanced against "grunts", and were not excessively effective against enemy jedi (except level3 powers againt low level reborn). Anyway, on I think Jedi Knight and up modes, enemy jedi use speed when u use it :(

StormHammer
04-18-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Blademaster_109
My question is will u be able to be a mix of both sides like have: mind trick, heal, lighting, and grip cause those are my 4 favorites.

I very much doubt it in SP at least. Your choice of Force power will decide whether you are Dark side or Light side...so there must be a clear division between the Force powers this time around - because the story branches to two different endings again.

As for MP...who knows? I would assume you can mix and match again, like JO...

Noxrepere
04-18-2003, 02:07 PM
They should definately stick to quality over quantity. They shouldn't just stick in an abundance of Force powers with limited uses. Some of the Force powers in JK and MOTS felt like that, but the powers in JO seemed to have much more substance and they should stick with that.

coupes.
04-18-2003, 02:38 PM
however i think that if there is a lot of force powers, even if there use is limited, with the combining of the force feature, you'll probably be able to make a good use of them.

Lightsaberboy
04-20-2003, 02:14 AM
i want force deadly sight back!

Iblis Reborn
04-29-2003, 12:37 AM
like ppl already said you pretty much have to make the grunts weak compared to the jedi's

i wouldnt make much sense if any stupid stormtrooper could cause the peace keepers of the galaxy alot of trouble

and IMO the throw would be great if you could select the rock\crate or whatever and it would just hover near you (draining force) until you throw it at the target you want (just like shooting a gun or something)
it would be nice if you couldnt block when you select it or throw it but you could when it hovers

thats what i would like anyways

toms
04-30-2003, 03:30 PM
i realise they should be weak... but it did get a bit silly...
run into a room of stormtroopers, use force pull and the watch them run around like fools with no weapons...
im not saying they should turn down the powers, more that they should turn up the grunts AI to deal with situations like that. (eg pulling out knives, running after their weapons and picking them up, using fists if close, running to a weapon rack if far away)

you could pretty much cakewalk through most of single player with pull/push against grunts and speed against bosses and other saber wielders.... you never needed to use the other powers expect to play with them...

and i don't remember all the jedi in the arena in ep2 just pulling the guns from 100s of droids and then laughing at them as they ran around. :D

it would be nice if Pull was seperated into Disarm and Pull. One power to pull away people's weapons, another to pull them to you or pull objects.

And if push and pull worked differently depending on the aim, or the time you held the button (eg, press button to affect one person, hold it to widen the effect).

oh, and i wouldn't like to see deadly sight back either, maybe destruction.... but only if it looked like in the JK cutscenes. Powers i would like to see would be Throw (objects, rubble), Perception (or whatever that out of body one was), Shield, Reflection, Meditate.

txa1265
05-06-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by toms
and i don't remember all the jedi in the arena in ep2 just pulling the guns from 100s of droids and then laughing at them as they ran around. :D

That is because of the quantity of enemies. There are places where you encounter enough enemies where you will take damage while trying to pull weapons away ... if you play at higher levels. Similar to saber throw - you have no defense while executing pull, so if you try it in a full room you'll get hit.

Mike

PrimoSidone
05-06-2003, 12:54 PM
I think in MP dark rage and mind trick shoud be removed

Prime
05-06-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by toms
i realise they should be weak... but it did get a bit silly...
run into a room of stormtroopers, use force pull and the watch them run around like fools with no weapons...
im not saying they should turn down the powers, more that they should turn up the grunts AI to deal with situations like that. (eg pulling out knives, running after their weapons and picking them up, using fists if close, running to a weapon rack if far away)

you could pretty much cakewalk through most of single player with pull/push against grunts and speed against bosses and other saber wielders.... you never needed to use the other powers expect to play with them...

and i don't remember all the jedi in the arena in ep2 just pulling the guns from 100s of droids and then laughing at them as they ran around. :D

it would be nice if Pull was seperated into Disarm and Pull. One power to pull away people's weapons, another to pull them to you or pull objects.

And if push and pull worked differently depending on the aim, or the time you held the button (eg, press button to affect one person, hold it to widen the effect).

oh, and i wouldn't like to see deadly sight back either, maybe destruction.... but only if it looked like in the JK cutscenes. Powers i would like to see would be Throw (objects, rubble), Perception (or whatever that out of body one was), Shield, Reflection, Meditate. I agree with you on the Pull issues. The game is entirely too easy when you can just pull multiple guys to the floor at once. Chopping guys who are running away with their hands up just doesn't make you feel like a Jedi :) I like that in JK the stormtroopers would try and punch you if you stole their weapon. I'd like to be able to just pull their weapons from their hands.

Originally posted by toms PromoSidone
I think in MP dark rage and mind trick shoud be removedGet ride of mind trick? Never! That's one of my favorite Jedi powers :)

Agen
05-06-2003, 02:11 PM
I would like to see a comeback of force blind or whatever :D
Also i think the list should go a little like this

Neutral
Seeing
Speed
Jump
Push
Pull

Light
Absorb
Heal
Mind Trick
Blind thingy :D

Dark
Grip
Lightning
Drain
Rage(?)

Of course it might not happen but it would fit well IMO. I never liked Rage though...

PrimoSidone
05-06-2003, 02:37 PM
Prime, in MP

Kurgan
05-15-2003, 06:13 PM
Who cares about balance in SP? I've never once seen an AI character complain and beg for mercy or whine based on the beat-down he recieved.... (well maybe a few of those stormies.. heh)

I WANT to be able to massacre my foes when I'm a bad-ass Jedi Master superhero!

Then again, there's a fine line between "Frustratingly hard" and "Sleep inducing easy" so I am all for getting that part right.

Bottom line: the bosses need to be somewhat tough, for the payoff they give.